SSL SiX vs. Mackie 1202 VLZ3 Pro - Tools of the Trade
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- Опубликовано: 17 янв 2020
- Is the SSL SiX right for you? Why buy the SSL SiX mixer? Who is the SSL SiX Right for? Is the SSL SiX Worth the Money?
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Развлечения
Very informative & helpful video. Thank you!
What I like the most about the Six is its versatility. I use it primarily for voice over and "radio play" type work and you are correct in saying that it does allow me to create nearly complete material. Having the bus compressor EQ and channel compression means that I need perhaps a single limiter and one surgical stock EQ plugin.
This review is what I have been looking for, thank you. All the forums and reviews I've found pertain to music functionality. I keep thinking of this device, and all the other mixers and outboard gear you mentioned, as a way of capturing tracks of dialogue and a music playback track for a livestream. I need the compression on the vocal channels, and really need the bus compression so that I don't overload my camera. I was worried that the compression might not be right somehow on the SSL, or that I'd miss outboard gear such as a deesser. Youve just confirmed all my hopes for this unit, and I'm so thankful that youve make this video for what seems to be the same use case as mine. Cheers from Sydney!
Wonderful! I'm so happy to help! I've been using it for years (still am) and truly appreciate how easy it makes tracking to camera. At this point, I no longer need to boost anything in post at all. I peak at about 12 lufs when all is said and done and all I have to do is edit mistakes.
Let me know what your experience is like if you buy the unit!
Jeff
Exceptional. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for making this video for us to watch. I found your justification for the price to be well explained with those 3 words!
Awesome! Thank you! Release Ready Audio. It really does it well.
Best!
Jeff
Great video Jeff. Its nice to see someone almost immediately point out some of the design flaws. I know no mixer is perfect, but its good to know the parts that dont work so well before handing over my cash. And what a great idea to put it up against a VLZ, most A.E's know what that sounds like. Having said that, now I want an SSL Six even more than before I watched your video.
Thank you Richard! There are definitely a few limitations built into the device, but as I was saying to Dylan below, if the device is right for what you're doing, it does the job amazingly well and much more easily than cabling through half a dozen 500 series modules on top of a mixer and any other outboard gear you happen to have.
If I can answer any other questions in video format, I'm happy to do so, just let me know. If they do come up, better to email me through my website though, as I lose track of the threads in the comments here. Here's a link:
www.jeffrolka.com/connect-2/
Best,
Jeff
went from the Makie Mix8 to a Tascam Model 12 and was wowed by the improvement .. then made the mistake of trying this thing out and apart from a professional board made in the UK or USA, this is about as good as it gets for a consumer grade / prosumer mixer... the preamps and audio quality is amazing with my bass guitar work. Its a keeper.
Well said! Thank you for watching and thanks for your concise description!
Best,
Jeff
Most importantly, you have a lava lamp in the corner, as all quality studios must have.
Seriously, excellent in-depth review/comparison.
Thank you! Yes! must have the lava lamp!
Jeff
THANKS!
Great video man
Thank you! I appreciate that!
Jeff
Hi there Jeff greetings from Wales I have a question. I have always worked in the box and so I am a bit clueless about this but is it possible to have a comfort reverb on channel 1 for the artist to monitor but not record the reverb into my DAW. If so I can see me getting a SIX. Thanks in advance.
Absolutely, though you'll have to get DB-25 cables to do so without taking up an additional channel on the SiX.
Great question!
Jeff
I especially enjoy these equipment reviews because I believe they are your honest opinión unlike other channels where I suspect other agendas are at play.
Thank you! I struggled with making this particular purchase as there are so many other options that come close and are a third of the price. Now having had the device for a couple of weeks and using it in production, I'm sorry I waited!
If any other questions comes up about it, feel free to email. You can get in touch via my website www.jeffrolka.com
Best!
Jeff
Excellent review, comparison, and helpful information! Would you recommend an SSL Six for summing or tracking external hardware synths & drum machine/sampler recording to DAW? I currently work outside the box using an MPC and a couple of hardware synths and trying to decide if the SSL Six would be a good option to mix before recording to the DAW. Thanks for sharing about the SSL Six.
Hello and thanks for your question!
It would be awesome for that, with a few caveats:
You will almost certainly need a DB25 cable to get all the inputs you'll need. Without that, you would be limited to 5 stereo pairs. Channels 1&2 would have EQ and compression, but the remaining inputs (3&4, 5&6, ext 1, ext 2) would all just be straight through to the stereo bus outputs though they would go through the g series bus compressor.
With that in mind, I wonder if there might not be a less expensive alternative. What that may be, however, I'm afraid I can't say.
All that being said, the more I use the SiX, the more I like it. I have more of these sorts of videos coming out and I'm quite thrilled with it.
Best,
Jeff
@@JeffRolka Thanks so much for your insight! That really helps a lot. And I look forward to your future videos.
my buddy runs his MPC, Digitakt, and a couple synths through his and it smacks! I was clowning on him for spending that much money on a mixer with 8 inputs but it really does sound that good.
I work on 4-6 channels mixing in sometimes.
In case of Solid State Logic BiG SiX, do you know how many outputs simultaneously ?
That's kind of a difficult question, because if you mean discreet outs, it would be less than the total outputs available simultaneously. The DB25 connector adds more of each as well.
Also, this isn't the BIG SiX, I am afraid I don't have any experience with that device, though it looks amazing!!!!
Best,
Jeff
Onboard 2:1 Compression is perfect for Radio voice and podcasts.
What are the DSub cables used for if this is only 6 channels? I'm confused, but then again, I'm not a console person.
The Dsub cable opens up other avenues into and out of the SSL SiX. One wouldn't think of it as changing the number of channels, because there's only six on the SiX, but SSL includes some alternate inputs on the Dsubs to expand that. They come in the form of Alt inputs and repurposing of some of the outputs. Specifically, the insert outputs on channels 1 and 2, if not being used and channel inserts, are always 'on' and can be used as DI outputs for those channels.
I hope that helps!
Thank you!
Jeff
Waiting for SSL to do a "SiXTEEN"
Phil Pan buy 8 of them !
The price will be shocking though...to have 16 ssl mic pres wont be cheap
Ssl has the 16 channel X-desk... 👀
@@futuristiccavemanofficial X-Desk has no EQ and no G-Bus. No Pres. It's literally just faders for summing. Also X-Desk is 8, not 16-- Though they DID have the X-panda. I dunno why they stopped selling that.
The XL Desk however.... I can understand that, but not so much the price. 30k for the loaded variant? They're asking a bit much. Even unloaded, no EQs, you're paying for 13k of faders and no EQ-- BUT... You get that G-Buss compressor. See I don't understand the X-Desk at all. You're paying 2.7k for absolutely none of the benefits of using an SSL product other than the faders and routing.
I second the notion. If you sold me no SSL Pres but only the EQs, Faders, Routing and that sweet compressor-- all in a 16-channel format-- you'd have the project studio's dream console. Until then I must save for the XL Desk.
@@tannera.9922 you’re absolutely right bro. I made that comment actually before I took a deep dive into the X-Desk.
Would love to see SSL make this with 2 or more super analogue mic pres with built in audio interface. Would be an awesome mixer setup for live gigs or in the studio paired with the UC1 and UF8!
Me too. I'd even just take the extra mic pres, though I can understand wanting to have the interface capabilities. It would really make it a versatile machine. Thanks!
Jeff
Your wishes are reality, ssl big six came.
@@kryzoxy1 ssl big six but dosent have direct outs ...
I think 2 of these will be better and cheaper cause alot of people will sell it to buy the new one
Thank you for the time put into this. I have seen this video twice already. I have a mackie mixer myself, and I’m considering to switch to the SSL six. I know the SSL six is not transformer base, but I wonder if you have ran tests driving the Pres, can you “colour” the sound of a bass, for example?
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question! I haven't, but I will! I integrated the SSL directly into my video production chain - but I'll happily run my bass through it and see what we get. Stay tuned!
Best,
Jeff
@@JeffRolka Thanks Jeff, I will be checking. Have a nice weekend. Regards,
Gina
Hey Gina,
I understand this question was not for me but I can say that yes indeed the preamps in the SSL Six can be driven hard imparting it's colour. There is the first gain stage pfl(prefader) left low will give you the cleanest true to your source that you then can use the channel fader to get the level you want. If you push the pre, it definitely gets thicker/juicier. Then you use the fader to pull back before hitting the gbus compressor.
@@AnthonyMartinsRock Thanks for the response, Anthony. That actually it is another aspect that I'm sure many user would be interested in actually hearing. I believe it is another aspect that may set this mixer apart from its competitors. I will keep checking. :)
Indid look at the soundcraft signature, looks really good and my existing mixer (unused now for several years) was soundcraft and great. But signature is quite old now and i really like the small form factor of the ssl. But agree ssl could at least thrown in 4 preamps, would have made it so much more useful at that size. I have seen the big six but even more expensive and a lot bigger.
I couldn't agree more. Two more preamps would've made this board quite special at this form factor. Honestly, they should've sorted out the channel compressors too. They don't work on sustained low frequency sounds. They do this weird warble thing.
I could actually hear a difference in you're work with the six normally you cant hear a thing different from someone trying to demonstrate a sound product.
I want to get one for summing out of a presonus studio live 32s what db25 cables would you recommend how many channels can you do 8?
Awesome! The more that I use the SiX the more I like it. If you decide to get one, I suspect you will be very pleased! I haven't gotten any DB-25 cables yet, though I have been contemplating it. I'm afraid I can't recommend any specifically, but I can tell you that you will just need two. One for input and one for output each with eight XLR connectors though not all are used by the device.
Best!
Jeff
@@JeffRolka wouldn't you just run the 2 mains out back to your interface for printing instead of using 2 DB-25, you would use one db25 for input signal like dca grouping in and 2 out of the mains using xlr cables?
@Jud Barnes I would go that way as you mentioned, because you want the summing to be done by the SSL. Then you can add some compression to the summed master out. Although I would consider the SPL MixDream XP summing mixer instead.
Question - I have a synth A, and a Pedal A. I want to play synth A but I want to mix the output of the of the pedal A. Is it possible to mix to Dry and Wet Signals? So 50% Pedal output and 50% Synth output. 2. Same scenario but I have to 2 pedals. Can I mix both pedals OUTPUT and my Synth together. Thanks
Absolutely. Either mixer would do that for you - BUT - the sends on the SiX are all stereo, so you could easily use the two cue sends to send your keyboard to each pedal individually. With the Mackie, the sends are mono, so you would need to use both Aux sends to send a stereo signal to one pedal. In order to send a signal to the other pedal you'll either have to use an insert send. Not a big deal, really. If you could send mono signals to the pedals, you could just use one Aux send to each pedal. They could return stereo no problem, plenty of tracks on either device for that.
I hope that helps!
Jeff
@@JeffRolka Thank you :-)
Interesting video, thanks.
The transition from the unprocessed ssl to the flat mackie channel at 18:10 sounded surprisingly similar.
I know right? I'm going to do another one of these videos where I do a kind of overall wrap up on the device and offer my thoughts having used it for almost a year now. It's definitely a great piece of gear, and it does offer a lot, but there are certainly some considerations before investing in it.
Thanks for watching!
Jeff
I must be fooling myself. I thought I heard the top end disappear!
SoundCraft and A&H lower-end line are terrific values, and their higher-end pro gear options are wonderful. SSL now makes that level of gear also, with their 2 / 2+ units. However, we learned not to use that low-end pro/prosumer gear for anything mission critical as they have too many durability and other issues from our experience. We use a couple SSL’s for some limited mobile uses, but always have the backup on-hand.
ive been using a soundcraft MTK 12 for a couple years and had no problems. But this SSL looks like a nice upgrade.
@@danvan8789 had to send back my Signature 22 mkt because it died on New Year’s Eve but it was only 18 months old and still under warranty. They just told me today that they are crediting my account because the manufacturer can’t get the parts to repair it.
Me and my Mackie watching this right now
I ended up getting a SoundCraft LX7II in almost new Condition......man....Im Starting to thing the Medium Sized SoundCraft Consoles are the Best on a Low Budget, Unliess you can afford a full SSL, Trident or API.......I would put my SoundCraft LX7II against...the Little Six, Big Six, Mackie, Tascam 24 or Mix Wizard any day of week...this thing is taking my Masters up to a new level
Ive got 24 Clean Pres, Mixing Bay in Middle of the Board, Aux Sends and Returns, 4 Band British EQ on Each Channel and InBoard Headphone Tracking....you wont beat this unless you can go all the way up to a "High End Console"
Awesome! Everyone should be as happy and satisfied with their gear selections! Thanks for chiming in and enjoy your board!
Jeff
Listening to this in headphones right now... something is very wrong with your right audio channel during the spoken SSL “intro” (before we see the mixer views. Just an FYI! I appreciate this review, regardless!
Interesting - you know the 'intro' before the review is done with camera audio as a frame of reference.
Best,
Jeff
I thought it was just my Bluetooth headphones. Yeah, there is something wrong with the right side, buzzy and low volume before you get into viewing the actual units. Great video though, thanks!
@@JeffRolka its when you first connect us to the ssl...
if it was an SSL 8 I would buy it in a heartbeat...
I know right??? I truly wish it had just two more preamps on it. I'm going to do a video showing how one can use the talkback mic pre inserted into the mix - but really a stop gap measure and it's kind of clunky. Better to have had four pres (or eight) built into it.
Best!
Jeff
@@JeffRolka Not exactly an 8 and it would cost double, but SSL sells a dual rack mount to put two of these side by side in a 19" rack. It would probably be excessive for your needs though. In any case, it pretty much infers that a larger unit would cost about double; maybe slightly less.
@@JeffRolka did you create that video yet (use of talkback mic?). Its the one thing that I have not done yet.
Have you tried summing on both?
Done a bit of summing on the Mackie. Really enjoyed it. Felt like doing six stereo pairs made me think differently about the mix. I've done a limited summing run on the SSL. I need to do more. The stereo bus compressor was a bit touchy and I ended up doing the final stereo file in the box because I didn't have the time to work through it. I plan on doing more and vlogging about it once I've got some good samples.
Thank you for watching!
Jeff
@@JeffRolka nice one mate
Thank you for your answer
these are the old mackie's and they are updated to a newer version 1202vlz4
Yes! It's an older Mackie that I was replacing with the SSL. Thank you!
Jeff
Super cool video, Jeff! The SSL sounds great. Better than the Mackie for sure. “Production Ready Audio” is a great term you used to describe its main benefit to your work on RUclips. Having a stand-alone unit that can handle audio production soup to nuts is very useful. The unit also just looks amazing! It’s probably more inspiring to use just for that reason too. Enjoy, and thanks for making such an in-depth video comparing it to the Mackie. The only problem - now I want an SSL too 😄
Thank you so much! Yes! Despite some of the limitations of the device the more I learned about it the more I was convinced it was right for my application.
That's perhaps the biggest point that I don't think I conveyed as well as I could - that if this device is right for what you're doing, it will do it better (imho) than anything else out there.
Funny - most of the reviews talk about how SSL isn't known for their design aesthetic, but I think it looks dead sexy! It is a joy to use too. The faders are pleasant to move as are the potentiometers. It feels reasonably solid to the touch, though I have to admit, the Mackie still feels more 'tank' like!
Thank you!
Jeff
Ssl bus compressor in mackie ?
No, there's no bus compressor on the Mackie. It's a pretty straight-forward analog mixer.
Jeff
Around 6:40 I started panicking, thinking the right side of my headphones was broken. I played something else and realised the problem was not my headphones, but the audio in your video.. SSL Six off to a bad start! Will continue watching the rest of the video now...
Sorry about that! It's not the SiX. That sounds like a bad cable with an intermittent connection - as shortly after 6:40 the sound comes back to stereo. I found a bad cable a few weeks after making this video, I have to assume that was the culprit but thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Best!
Jeff Rolka you’re doing a great job. Are there any mixers under $400 that would get me anything close to the sound of the ssl . I was recently thinking about buying a mtk12 or mtk22. I really want the ssl though
Listen from 17:40 to his voice. Now he switches to Mackie. Incredible! The VLZ3 Preamps sound awful! Unusable. On the SSL I thought he was using a high quality microphone - but it a Lavalier. I'm floored by the difference. Is this real?
Hello and thanks for writing in! I can assure you that it's just as it seems. I tried to remove as much as possible from the signal chain so you could hear the differences in the devices. Thanks for watching!
Jeff
The difference is night and day. Next to the SSL, the VLZ preamps sound muddy at the bottom and smeared at the top. The SSL mic pre sounds like we are hearing a wider spectrum with much greater resolution. I wish SSL had a version of the SiX with eight of the mono channels and the same master stereo bus. I'd grab that in a hot minute.
Personally... the Mackie is not that bad.. definitely not night and day. My personal opinion here.
2:1 or 4:1? I thought it was at 4:1 ratio?
It's 4:1 - did I say 2:1 in the video? Sorry about that if that's the case! I may have been thinking about the channel compressors, which are at a 2:1 ratio.
@@JeffRolka Yeah, you're correct. It's 2:1 at the channel and 4:1 at the master. Either way, great video....I appreciate your content.
No Direct Outs on the SiX. Sucks.. -previous SiX owner
Yeah, it'd be nice to have them on the board proper, as opposed to having to get the DB 25 cable.
Jeff
That’s too much money to be missing anything
Subtitules español
I don't see the point in comparing an SSL board with a Mackie. Both are stellar in their own right, but that's like comparing a Formula 1 with a rally car...
It's just what I happen to have on hand. For perspective, as opposed to trying to put them against one another as if one or the other were what one was choosing to purchase. For that matter, as I mention in the video, the Mackie is long out of production.
Thanks for watching!
Jeff
The SSL is Made in China
The Mackie is Made in China
That is correct.
you appear to be trying to convince yourself you spent your money wisely. SSL preamp are simply not coveted and aren'tconsidered that good, not much better than the mackie pres. i could get a better quality sound for 900 dollars than you will get for your 1,500. you could have found dual Neve style pres and an SSLclone bus comp and you would have better sound. Sorry to say that, but no way would Iwant tospend 1,500 on SSL preamps and one knob comp. hell, Art Pro MPA 2 with new old stock tubes have battled the very best preamps in blind shootouts and many chose them. mpa tube pres for 350 and a set of NOS tubes for 100 or so, then there are a ton of choices of good compressors in the 500 to700 range. so 900 to a 1000 and I could show you higher quality of sound. SSL pres are simply not that good, which is why many hits mixed on an SSL were actually recorded on Neve and API's because those preamps are very sought after. Not saying you won't love the SSL, I'm just saying that a 1000 dollars could have got you much better preamps and higher quality sound. Maybe not as convenient, but definitely higher quality recording.
Not at all! I love the SSL and use it for one specific purpose. It serves that purpose remarkably well, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, especially if these were the only pres they would be able to afford. I love them on electric guitar though, reminds me of an old Trident board I used to work on.
As a form factor, for what it offers, it's perfect for me. Am I using it to record vocals on my recordings? No, not at all, but for streamlined video production it has just the right combination of elements in just the right amounts. Worth every penny (though I admit, in the video, that I got it on sale).
Best,
Jeff
Depends what you want. I used the six preamp for vocals and cello - through Audioscape Eqp-a - and it sounded better than my Apollo preamps and different but as good as my Pacifica or Vintech. SSL boards are coveted for being colorless. Some of SSL prosumer stuff is cheap and I returned it but the six is a keeper.
Totally agree with you. 95% of RUclips's videos and comments come from people (Nerds) who don't have any idea what they are talking about. Fortunately, sometimes I read comments from guys like you that confirm with deep knowledge the truth about our beloved audio engineering profession. Heil Rupert Neve or API! :)
Ssl is way over priced!!! Im waitin for walmart to come out with their mixer for $299.00 Its gonna blow ssl away!!!!!
:-)
Jeff