Testing high feed end mills at 27,000 RPM!
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2021
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You can go even faster with these things if you go back and forth. They dont care even if it not slotting (switches between climb and conventional) Just cut-plunge-cut-plunge-cut-plunge and done :)
Yep true, way faster, but carrefull about micro chip packing, those can become dense and affect the cut,
And titanium Can be harsh if températures going up
Agreed - over ~80% RDOC there is no difference between conventional and climb milling. The only spot where you might run into trouble is when it turns around because it would have to do so while cutting - a small vertical lead in radius would take care of the transition.
@@steves.3485 I think ramping back and forth would be better
These videos might not look like sexy 120fps slowmo but they are crazy interesting, informative and inspiring for us, the ones starting in the CNC world. Thanks so muuuch
Good luck. You’ll never stop learning and if you do move on to the next job where you learn more.
Lean tip: make your "yellow tool position indicator for the Kern" symmetric. Make it just a ring so there is no upside-down. The machine will never get confused that there is/ isn't a tool in the pocket you are working on.
Edit: perhaps this suggestion is more Poke Yoke than LEAN...
Great video. Your excitement is contagious. I really enjoyed you going through the whole process and not just showing the result.
One thing I've done for tool setting is I use "stop-Loc" lathe stops and set it to a pre-defined length. so I never have to break out the calipers when setting my tool. I just use one of the standard length stops to set the stick out. That way I never have to break out the calipers.
I just started school for machining. I'm only using manual mills and lathes right now, but your videos get me super pumped for getting into CNC. Love it!
Man! This is super awesome content! Thanks for such a close look.
Badass video, keep up the amazing work!
I don't think that's dirt.....I think it's skin! Thanks for the video! I shared your joy when it passed the break detection! I use seco inserted HF mills with great success. I don't pre-cut or drill big holes any more; just blaze away on the solid.
I'll admit, I'm new to this channel, but this is some really cool content! It's super fun and interesting getting to follow you through your process and see how you work through issues. Love this vid, looking forward to the next one! 😁🙌
RUclips doesn't like you clearly, it's been 6 months since i saw any content in my feed. Good to see things are going still well.
This is one of the few channels I put the "bell on"
@@DreX4859 it's all setup the way it should be and yet I didn't get it in the feed.
hi john. i like your enthusiasm for precision machining. I am very happy to watch your videos. Especially at Tornos when I see people I know. Many greetings from Switzerland
Awesome job
The cutter technology evolution with this type of milling is fascinating! The first time I saw a machine run at 120 ipm I was hooked.
That dummy tool is smart! Thanks for sharing, Charles
This came at a perfect time
Im glad I wanted to learn how to make a knife edge on solidworks... it brought me to this unique channel
It has been my experience that an air blast for coolant is much more effective than flood. I noticed micro fractures on the end of that Niagara. If that was what happened after one use than I would consider using an air blast instead of flood for coolant. Or, I have been taught that when using high feed tool paths, one should double the SFPM and quadruple the Feed. The reasoning for this is that the heat created by cutting is reduced by the small amount of cut. I've also found that feeding too slow will cause the tool to rub during the cut and not give the chips any weight to fly away. If it was me, after looking at that cutter (assuming one use ish) I'd try to increase your chip load up to .003" per tooth. Land on the chip load that doesn't cause those fractures. God I miss programming.
I was hitting .0025" IPT *Programmed* on a 2mm 12x diameter ballnose endmill. 2mm almost an inch long, full slotting in aluminum bronze.
Sketch the tools radius in 2d and add lines for your depth of cut, you can visualize the actual chip thickness and compare it to the programmed feedrate. 0.0025" programmed feedrate does not mean 0.0025" chips.
We just received a Mazak VNC530C and we have just started experimenting with a 30mm inserted high feed endmill from our Iscar rep for roughing out slots/pockets (we do bigger stuff than what John does). These things are tha bomb! But if you really want to save time I recommend you try trochoidal milling. That is the real time saver!
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the entertaining.
👍
High Feed endmills helps a lot also when you have a spindle with no High torque output, espescialy on hard non ferrous metals .
witch is my case, on a dental type but awsome machine.
Thanks for the Intels and for motivation, helps a lot years After years frome my "garage workshop" like you did
Greetings from France !
34:10 That excitement and anticipation. :D
Awesome!
Seems like it would be handy to have a "camera tool" that when mounted gives a magnified view of x amount from the spindle POV.
⭐🙂👍
Yep that is definitely a thing that can be bought
Well I'm a cnc mazak integrex machinist and I like your video because the way you are showings these techniques is in real world
Rock on John!
I would guess that the "dip" in the center of the SECO tool is there to eliminate the "zero SFM" problem of center cutting. If you're never cutting deeper than the radius of the tip, then you're never hitting zero SFM. The other tool is ground more like a twist drill with a center cut and continuous radius, the SECO looks more like an inserted drill does.
Thanks for another very intresting video. I'm not sure how you approached the "automatic tool measure" with the TIME1=999, but im sure you can reset this value without a change to another tool, and then back. Do you know the Heidenhain function "FN17 SYSWRITE"? For example with a nc-code like: FN 17: SYSWRITE 0 = ID50 NR94 IDX9 you can write "0" to TIME1 of T94. After that just do a "TOOL CALL 94 Z" and it will read the new TIME1 value or whatever value you changed in the tool table for the actual tool in the spindle.
what's that lighted Loupe , that you found works best? do you have link? thx
Watching closely with some new High feed mills on my desk right now😁
Same here
and I just got a quote back from niagara on some 12x dia, 2mm customs :O
You should look in too some high speed spindles for the Mori. So you can use those high speed mills there as well.
We have those from Colibri Spindles. They work with your trough spindle Collent and do not need auxiliary power.
Greatings from Germany.
At work we got a new high feed insert mill and the insert looks the same as that flute so I guess a radius is stronger than a straight edge, runned it at 3000 rpm and 5000 mmpm with 0.5 mm depth of cut
Can you please do more videos showing the buying process for all the different machines you have like the one you did with the mori. Also showing the process of how to set up a program and test a tool is pretty cool
What kind of filtration are you running on your coolant? You've probably already thought of this but with all of those super fine chips I think you would need an super fine (read slow) filter to avoid those chips acting like liquid sandpaper on the parts. cheers
last month i worked on an complex Titanium Product. I also had proplems with small tools (1,5mm and 1mm Diameter). Always when it plunged, shortly after that the tools broken! So i decided to drill at all points where it can dive into. After that it runs, and runs and runs... never broke again. changed it after about 1000 minutes of "in use Time" (Standzeit in German :D)
I use those little Niagara high feed mills everyday, they work great!
I like the 3D printed tool holder, but perhaps you should redesign it as a puck to idiot proof it 🙂
Lol
Try ramping instead of doing even stepdowns with those high feeds. Also, be aware that one of the hardest things on high feed geometry is running into a hard bottom corner on a 90 degree pocket wall, or directly stepping down into a channel with no room for a stepover (full slotting). Fusion does have some pocketing wall angle settings you can use if you run into trouble but often just lessening the stepdown works. #highfeedallthethings
This is one of my favourite yt channels and John seems to be a great guy, 12 ads in a 40 minute video is excessive though.
ublock origin
OK i'm 12 months or more late to this party but how has this worked out long term?
Something you might consider is using a trochoidal style tool path with a standard end mill.
It takes advantage of chip thinning and spreads the wear evenly along the whole tool engagement length.
If you used one with a small radius it would help massively with tool life.
I always try to follow the cut that a tool broke in with a retired tool at reduced feed. Too put brand new tool in that cut can dull the new one instantly because of the work hardened surfaces and/or unseen carbide particles impregnated into the parts. Any time you put a new tool into a saw cut, drilled hole, tapped hole or milled surface where the previous tool failed, there’s a likelihood it’ll be damaged.
Mzn 410 is a great high feed tool from niagara as well! 4 flutes so you can feed even faster!
Does that "Power Grip" box set the collet ?
The 2-flute mill, with 'wide open' flutes, clearly excels at chip clearance, and, I think, the steeper angle is probably better in 'sticky' materials, and, as you discussed, the cutting is done with more force in the tool axis. In a PCB factory, I saw mills/drills running at 130,000 RPM ! Zing!!
And, please, keep on 'nerding'.... I built a program for electrical solid state relays that tracked the application of the relays; you went into a tool table like your spread sheet, did a 'drag and drop' to a desired destination, and the software 'populated' the end-use relay holder with the correct part, and would check that the ratings were OK for that end-use 'slot'... looks like you are building a lot of useful 'internal' software... what fun!!
John Saunders is definitely going to hear about the tiny little chips on next weeks podcast😂
You could also consider Wire-EDM for that slot, it allows you to make it even narrower (0.5 mm would be easy)
Wire-EDM would take more time, but when you have a machine with auto wire feed, wire breakage is not an issue, and you could stack a numer of parts on top of each other..
You're in Canada, I expected you to be talking in metric like the cool kids! ;-P
13:06 is that some chewing gum on the machine 😱😱😋
That super shallow depth of cut definitely suites the kern. More rigid/powerful machines would be ridiculously inefficient.
It depends on the use-case, I've seen 60 KW horizontals be faster in some operations with these
You should be able to change the 999 without changing to another tool, maybe its locked by HEIDENHAIN parameters
You're a braver man than I to touch those chips. Thousands of needles in your finger 🤣
Can you show us how to did that automatic tool length program? Would be handy to use at work if I knew how
Verry nice machine the KERN , better then a Bridgeport or Haas, and also Heidenhain 👍👍
youre doing the right thing. This isnt about being fancy its about being perfect/excellent and in this world that doesnt come fast with flashy transitions. reality vs social media essentially. no way to sexify problem solving with cam/cad its a grind and why we are hurting for machinists and manufacturing in western world...because its hard. not flashy and takes grind....
Great vidéo, i already try niagara mini feed mill, on SS303 and tool steel, now niagara is a part of seco tool(his « cheap » line) it work perfecly to do the job but at my point tool life is not cheap(160 cad$ for 5/16) and is not the best tool life i ever seen, SECO e-mill work soooo better than niagara tool, but is more pricier, approximatively 1.5 time but maybe 2 to 4 time longer tool life (i personnaly try with kovar and SS416) . If i’m right , seco use sandvik carbide? And with my 15 years of expérience with tool, « yellow carb » last longer that the other.
I’m not god, is just my opinion
Hey Grismo I'm currently living in Quebec, just wondering where you at located??
By any chance you have mills machinist position in you shop. I'm a CNC Milling Machinist and might be looking for a job
2 flute likely would have faired way better than the 4, all that extra chip clearance, full slotting really fucks most end mills up regardless
Isn't the swoopy-swoop (dont engage corners) magic somewhat defeated by slotting (zero radial stepover)?
Yes with a regular endmill, however, this type of tool is applying the same technique axially instead of radially.
How does tool life compare? Removing all the materiel with just a few thousandths of edge makes me wonder if it will dull after fewer cycles than a tool using more edge.
Edit: now that I got a good look at the geometry, there is a bit more edge to work with than I thought. OTOH won't it be cutting all the way out to the tip after a few passes? At lest on the edge of the slot the where the last pass left a curving bottom?
do you mind sharing the "script"? I guess you did it with FN18: SYSREAD but did you implement the "script" in the toolchange cycle or did you edit your postprocessor to open a different file after the toolchange command?
I think John said, that he uses the Linux side of Heidenhain and reads/writes from SQL databases. But you can do also a lot with FN18: SYSREAD and FN19: SYSWRITE
@@jst6757 oh okay didnt knew this is possible :)
new technoligy high feed endmill.. i dont think ive ever heard that sentence the last 15 years :D
Why do they cost more I wonder? The amount of finish girding seems like it would be a lot *less* than on a conventional mill. Is it that big beefy shank they need to pay for and then grind down? Kinda makes me wonder if anyone has managed to make brazed carbide end mills: say a small carbide rod in a tool steel tube shank.
Those high feed endmills look like they're cheaper to make than regular endmills
Or probably a simple 2 flute end-mill for slotting avoid broking it….
I love Heidenheim control isn't it tnc 640 I think it's one of the best control that is on the market
everyone has their own opinion about that
SO ITS LIKE A TINY FLY CUTTER?
I would setup a ruffing tool and a finishing tool for that op
It's wild that a mill that small, going that quickly, produces an identifiable chip.
This was a very interesting presentation. Your comment about not being a spectator sport, while true, is somewhat self deprecating. Your presentation adds a more involved feeling to a potentially hair pulling, wrench throwing session, with your choice to film the video on an off day. I have a preference toward being “The Lone Ranger” in the shop when chasing out the bugs.
You should set that toolpath to "Both Ways" in the Passes tab, because it's basically just shallow slotting and touching both walls anyway. This will reduce your linking moves to basically nothing and you don't have to worry about crashing into something between step downs.
I use high feed insert mills in my old Fadal to simultaneously rough and finish pockets with curvy 3d geometry on the walls. Surface finishes on the walls aren't too critical for my application (304L flanges for turbos) so it saves me the step of having to switch to a ball end mill to finish.
i want to work one day in a shop where i can just get another new toolholder for a different tool
23:48 the window says "Default KERN Micro - iTNC530..."
but its a iTNC640 control
Probably because there's very little difference, they probably took the iTNC530 and added the functionality of iTNC640 and forgot to change the name. It's not a big deal imo
I would love to have a local cutter manufacturer
@ 21:50 you blew my mind... I never knew you could drag along the path to have it select the open contour...
I would sit there and click every single segment individually! do you know how much time you just saved me?
Ramping the contour will take less time
🎰🎰🎰🎰🏧✔️🚛
only 74 ipm?
The finish john! you didn't show the finish!
True Machinists have nerdgasms about chip quality.
I'm thinking what you're trying to do is not good for a high feed mill. Like you said it's only supposed to cut on a small portion of the radius of the tip of the tool. Problem is you're just going down each path so as you go down it will very quickly load the entire width and depth of the cutting radius. I believe high feed mills need to make a flat floor before dropping in Z. Making a single line slot is probably not great for such a mill. I'm quite eager to see your results.
i can watch the vid just in 360p?
You don't use four flutes to machine slots too much pressure two flutes better.
Audio?
Incredible personality. Compared to say, « samurai carpenter » who just begs to be punched in the face.
Seco is Sandvik
I got no sound
Still seems weird to my ears that you say "Zee" even though not from America.
Audio non existent
Nevermind
The focus on your video is always bad