The Ultimate Knife Bearings!
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2021
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Our Products: www.grimsmoknives.com/
John Grimsmo Knives Instagram: / johngrimsmoknives
Erik Grimsmo Instagram: / erik_grimsmoknives
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Gear we use:
Sony A7iii
Zoom F1-LP Field Recorder
Rode VideoMicro Directional Recorder with Dead Cat
JOBY GorillaPod Compact Tripod with Ballhead
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Angelo: / afisherknives
Fraser: / frasercuviello
Skye: / skyemfg 
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It's not just Delrin, it's Delrin As F**k.
Thank you for being the one to say it! It needed to be mentioned.
Anti Friction also.
Can't wait to hear Saunders give the beat down about fixing a problem that doesn't exist.
John! No! You don’t need that. But, Full Grimsmo. Well, ok. LOL Love their conversations 😂
Ultem is highly abrasive to the tooling . Especially carbide . I’ve machined much of this for medical parts in my work .
ooo that studio audio
exactly what I said when I heard it, Really nice change from shop audio!
The studio + inside footage was super crisp, I think it is a great evolution for grimsmo
And the sound - ace!
I machine plastics for a living and acetal (pronounced a-see-tal) is one of the best plastics to machine period. If you are looking for other plastics to use look at petp-tx (petp with Teflon impregnation). It is a high grade bearing material with very good thermal stability. And whatever you do don't use any kind of polyethylene
Delrin is the brand name for acetal - so that's what they're already using :)
@@nathanielhudson6574 I'm well aware, my point was that they aren't likely to find a plastic that will machine better than acetal.
hi, why not PE - what is wrong with it? just curious, have no experience of my own here
@@radexpp Because PEHD is extremely stringy. It has its uses, but seeing John being concerned with the tiny stringyness of Acetal in his bearingholes I'd bet PE would be a lot worse =)
@@robinbiskupic2639 Have you machined PEEK? I make all sorts of prototype spinal implants out of this stuff. In my opinion, this is hands down the best polymer to machine.
I’m always amazed that the market for high end knifes if big enough to employ a super high tech shop with a fair number of employees. It speaks the the quality of your work that your product is in demand like it is!
Great bearing inside scoop. The transparent bearing race may turn brittle with age. Ask the supplier if that's the case. Most clear materials that aren't glass do get brittle with oxidation. What about a nylon bearing race? ✌
Exactly, be careful of light colored plastics that get exposed to UV. Manufacturers add carbon black to prolong the lifespan of the plastic.
It came out like a flower... That made me smile.
I'm so exited!!! been looking forwards to this one for a while since you teased it on ig!
That’s why I like you guys. Transparent. Always pushing for better. 🤞🏻
Amazing as always.
You were a true inspiration when it came to starting my business, and now it's taking off, but I have a hard time getting customers to wait... They want their purchase quickly, which results in me always running after the clock in the shop, making mistakes, or not getting to the level of quality I'd like. Everytime I think about the Grismo business and how you guys managed to have your customers waiting to get the perfect knife... I hope one day I'll get there too
Full Nerdgasm!
This is great, wanted a Norseman before but now that I know the tolerances and attitude you have I will be buying one.
If you are looking for a cool looking plastic that is similar to Delrin AF, try Turcite. Its typically light blue and is well known for its lubricity characteristics. Its actually used a lot for lining ways on machine tools.
i really like this type of video, please do more of these! it would be really neat having a series of these with a video for every little pet that goes into the knives and pen!
Always enjoy your updates! Your attention to details is amazing! Have you given any longevity evaluation/considerations to using the new material? UV and chemical resistance would be interesting to evaluate.
I wasn't sure how I was going to like the new format, with the 2nd half being more of a studio filmed segment. But your so enthusiastic about the subject material, and the mixing of video and props really made it work. Otherwise I know i likely would of gotten bored without the enjoyable background of the shop and the machines in the background.
Thx for taking us along with you again on the journey.
Awesome video!
Make sure the plastic does not swell when wet (some plastics do like nylon). Could be a problem in more humid areas or if you clean the knife in water.
I work in the polymer industry. Very familiar with these materials. I think the acetal is a great choice for the application. Filled with pfa or ptfe may be an upgrade. Ultem is typically used in applications like you stated. Acetal has excellent chemical resistance properties as well which seems like it would be important. Another one to look at would be hdpe or uhmwpe
I would definitely try HDPE. super slick, extremely durable, high melting temp.
@@roykaltz3233 some other engineered resins to check out would be amodel and nylaron. The yellow bodies on a popular brands cordless drills are amodel, super tough. We use nylaron in some applications that are primarily concerned with coefficient of friction and wear resistance.
Would PTFE be suitable? As I've understood it it's the polymer with the lowest friction coefficient?
What about HMPE (werkstoff s), it's often used in industry as mechanical guides.
The second half of this video is awesome! well they all are awesome but that is a cool idea breaking down the process in the studio!
Couple tips from a polymer machinist. Incorporate pecking for all turning sequences, a .006 IPR with a .003 peck will turn your machine into a vibrator but with less shavings wrapping part causing thermal friction issues. Also PCD tooling is great for longevity and superior surface finish.
Thanks So much for the amazing tours and vids! I'm fairly local and would love to see your setups in person some day!! Maybe when I buy my first Noresman!!
Quality of these videos keeps getting better! love it
The audio quality in your studio is on point. Really adds a nice touch.
I really enjoyed the studio voice over segment! Great job!
Wow time flies by I remember when you went to Europe to buy the mill/lathe... That place was awesome with rebuilds and that facility and how vintage everything was
That was very informative. Thanks!
I love All the nerding and fiddeling you guys do. I wish i had time to need out of My machines. But as a job shop its very rare we have time for fine stuff like this. Thanks for sharing My friends 🙏🙏😁
As a guitarist and knife enthusiast I'm very familiar with all these different types of plastics as guitar picks have been made with Ultem, Delrin, etc.. etc... For ever. Awesome video
I would avoid using unfilled Ultem for this application. I've found it to get gummy, which you are seeing in the machining process. You can get this PTFE (Teflon) filled, which improves things considerably from a friction perspective.
Wow, def not just plug and play! Crazy machines.... no wonder you make such great knives
Nostalgic topic, great progress from the originals, 😊 awesome video! 👍
I like the story time and look back at how you do it now. Hope this trend continues.
Have you tried Turcite plastic? I'm no material specialist, but it seems like it would be a good fit for this application - "Turcite is an engineering plastic that is ideal for high wear and friction applications. It is self lubricating, has long service life and is heat, wear & chemical resistant."
Your channel is so awesome - I’d love to get into manufacturing and CNC myself, getting bored with the corporate life!
PEI is used to get prints to stick to the bed. It's not strictly need with glass beds but it's a lot less sensitive to dirt than a clean glass bed is. Still needs to be cleaned ofc.
Did you consider PTFE (Teflon™) rods, or do they just not machine properly?
Really refreshing to have the quiet background in this video, not to say the machining sounds bother me, its part of what you do. But having vids like this mixed in is really geat!
The tornos footage is awesome!
We tumble very small abs and delrin parts with thru holes and tons of burrs in a plastic peanut jar with loose aluminum oxide and get great results.
Star and Citizen also make really good swiss-type lathes. I myself am a bit partial to Citizen.
Is there any way to do like half of the holes on the main spindle before it parts off? Maybe that wouldn’t work but seems like it could be a quick way to reduce cycle time since it’s just waiting on the sub?
Maybe a McD insert for faceing and finish pass turning will be the solution for the bur around the hole ( final faceing after making the holes) since it's so extremely sharp
Look into soda blasting for these light plastic burrs(Sodium bicarbonate) we use it with PEEK. works well
Have you look at Hydex. It machines very good. Keeps it shape because it very low at absorb water.
Last week I asked we’re to buy mixtron. I haven’t found a USA dealer.
You should so sell just the bearings to other knife makers to then better the whole knife community with your pursuit of perfection. I love your passion for always wanting to make things better.
Ultem also has musical properties..try it as a guitar pick...it produces a distinct sound
John you Should try Nylon PPO it machines like a dream and holds tolerances very well and is more rigid then Delrin/acetal.
This is an off the wall idea but maybe a good on? Put something sharp in the path of the chip like maybe a razor or piece of razor. Not sure it would be any good but maybe just hold by hand for a part or two to see if it's even worth exploring further.
I currently work in plastic mold injection, so watching this video was pretty interesting. We use some of the same materials in our plant and nothing is more obnoxious than quality control with string coming off the parts. We got presses that could make literally THOUSANDS of those tiny parts a day, not that you would need that kind of quantity. How many of those are made with each shot of the press?
Another engineering plastic you may consider is PEEK. Similar to Ultem but the properties eclipse it. It has a higher impact resistance as well as performing better in salty and other chemical environments. It may be a little more expensive but machining qualities may make it perfect for your application.
Have you looked into injection moulding those bearing cages?
That would need to be one fancy (aka $$$$) mould to make those inverse hour glass shaped holes for the balls to snap into.
John, could you stretch the Delrin bars with a little heat to straighten them.
It's funny that all the materials you're talking about for making bearing cages are used to make guitar picks. They also use acetal which I saw mentioned in another comment. I wonder how many of those materials would translate from making a good pick to making a good cage. Having worked with nothing but wood and some metal, I couldn't say. (I've built guitars)
Hi John, I'm not sure if you're still taking material suggestions, but here goes anyway. I would suggest giving PEEK a test in a natural/unfilled grade. "Bearing grade" is available, but I suspect it will be have inclusions and be too brittle for your application. Unfilled PEEK is generally similar to Ultem 1000, but it has lower thermal expansion, and better friction/wear properties. PEEK is actually often used for bearings/bushings needing high chemical/thermal resistance. The natural colour is also interesting, not clear, but similar to a light wood colour, perhaps ivory?
I love hearing the details! Thanks for taking the time to share this stuff.
*I wonder if we will be able to purchase these bearings if we already own the knife??* 🤔
Soooo, I know I'm late to the party but have you tried turcite at all? It's pretty amazing stuff.
hey, im new to the knife world. is there an advantage to using plastic like ultem or delrin af over phosphor bronze?
Was the phone adapter a part that you custom-made? I'm looking for something like that.
yeggi is your friend
I bought a Knipex plier three days ago and now this get recommended because he’s saying Knipex at some point inthe video. That’s crazy
Do you have issues with bowing and whipping into the inside of the spindle/extension tube at higher spindle RPM?
🤯LOVE IT🤯
Wired,,, I look at this geeky stuff.
24 minutes feeling like 2.
Thanks for the moment Grimsmo
Very interesting Mr Grimsmo 😮
i worked in one of the first electronics factory in the 60's that was doing chips. It was not uncommon that there was a one in a thousand that made it through testing
Hi john, what software do you actually use to program the tornos? Why did you have to hand code anything at all?
try flame polishing them just a quick pass with a light flame. worth a test at least. that type of material is going to get some fibers
I wonder how injection molding would do for the bearings?
I'm wondering - have you checked if there's any noticeable difference between grade 3 and other grades of bearings in your knifes? Like a blind test or sth like that.
I need to find bearings like that...
Why not use phosphor bronze for the cage like skiff bearings?
Best saying I've ever heard was, "Ain't no kill, like overkill" This is that for sure, but its a must!
I work in firearms manufacturing and use that phrase more than is required
@@Awfultyming It must be over used, so you're using it correctly
For what it's worth I'd stick with the delrin your currently using. Maybe go centre less ground, or change suppliers. The bearing is such a critical element, and it doesn't sound like there's any issues with it while in service. Don't wanna find out that your new fancy plastic fatigues after a few months (or years). Don't fix what ain't broke!
интересно zedex zx100 можно использовать ?
do bearings with 2 rows actually make a big difference? I own many knives but none that have those kind of bearings
Thats mainly used and needed in bearings that have high loads. So probably not really necessary in a knive.
Brass/bronze (or whatever runs well on the Swiss) carrier machined with pockets done with through drill then a ball end mill straight in while in the main spindle. Face, OD, ID, chamfer and pockets all while on the bar. Grab in sub spindle, part and chamfer. Done. Load balls the same way you do now and put a stake mark on each pocket to hold them in. Make a die and do all at once. Better process control by not having to fool with plastic. Bet it’s half the cycle time by not having to interpolate all those little holes.
The bent bar is because of how they stored it. Had it happen to me, bypassed the seller, went to source, and that's how i realized.
20:45 It was hard to get them to sell you their product?
How is it in cold temps?
Was the ultem expensive for you? The few times I've cut ultem its been very expensive compared to other plastics. Ps: during a Google search on properties of a certain plastic I came across a company called curbell plastics. I went down a hellacious rabbit hole. The kind where I forgot why I was there and spend the next 2 hours in it. I didn't regret the lost time though🙂
Maybe try out igus? They're selling lots of their bearing motion-plastics as bar stock.
Do you get 3m bars ?
Hey Fraser - love the studio setup and the audio - John looks and sounds super crisp. There's quite a bit of banding on the wall behind him which is a bit distracting - too low a bitrate or some other issue?
It’s RUclips compression. We are filming in 10 bit right now. We are looking into fixing the issue!
@@JohnGrimsmo I see the Full Grimsmo diseas... I mean philosophy has infected the video production department :P
Dang right! Just wait you haven’t seen nothing yet!
@@JohnGrimsmo What bitrate are you currently exporting in? RUclips’s compression sucks, it’s definitely less apparent though on higher bitrate exports.
Ppsu is another slippery plastic used in bearings and is resistant to all known acids below 200c apparently common in oil gas. PEEK another super plastic and has a bearing grade developed originally for paper mills but found it's way into helicopters/aerospace it is used in everything from heavy industrial to f1 transmission bearings now. Peek gf will move a lot when cutting but it machines easy with diamond CBN , cut off tool needs to be razor sharp. For anyone that wants sticker shock as nsk for a peek ceramic bearing. Pei has a neat effect that when hot other plastics stick when it cools it can release them. Every thing you touch in a modern aircraft is Ultem and in new planes it is 3d printed.
Phosphor bronze cages?
dude, can I buy a couple bearing housings so I can do that bearing application (5:35) .. just to cheer me up when I feel sad? .. please?
I wonder if flash-flame-polishing would be an option for getting rid of those micro burrs? 🤔
I wouldn't think so. It would be pretty difficult to control a flame/heat burst to be precise enough to melt the burs without also warping or melting through the thin rim on those bearing holes.
@@Zamerick13 Hmm... the few times I’ve seen videos of it; they were working on some really small parts. IIRC, they used a propane charge with a lean mixture; and it just went “pop” when the spark was triggered. The surface-to-volume ratio of the burrs was such that they caught fire, but the solid mass of the main part didn’t.
🤔
I run a lot of Delrin and Delrin-AF. I send my parts for Cryogenic Deburring. Literally, drench parts in nitrogen and bead blast the parts until all the flash is gone. Excellent results.
There wasn't any ready solutions available close to your bearing needs?
They just wanted to go full grimsmo. I remember them not being able to find the right thickness bearings for what they wanted to do.
Anyone know the name of the bins shown at 4:21?
Thinking about it PEEK may be a Grimsmo option (Definite overkill)
Flame polish the ultem cages, they will be shiny and get rid of burrs
Im honestly 100% shocked you havent invested in an Optical Comparator with a Quadra Chek system! Soooooooo useful!
Do you sell these bearings?
How is your experience with bearing riding directly on titanium scales?
Fantastic. Once you roll in the bearings (next bearing video will go in depth on this) they're great.
Maybe try graphite impregnated teflon, my father used to make bearing cages out of this. This Material have low coefficient of friction, and is quite wear resistant
Why not ptfe rods? That would be epic.
Delrin AF is as good as it gets for a reasonably priced bearing material and will give you the lowest friction possible in unlubricated plastics outside of UHMW and the fluoropolymers. It has an even lower wear rate than Delrin, but it's also softer and weaker than regular Delrin. Ultem and other amorphous plastics are terrible for any sort of wear application.
If you want to get into the harder, stronger, stiffer, higher temperature, lower thermal expansion, and more wear resistant plastics, Torlon 4301 (and the other bearing grades of Torlon) is what you want. That's what they use in ultra-high-speed bearing cages (like the ones in dental drills) and extreme wear parts. PEEK HPV is an intermediate between Torlon 4301 and Delrin AF.
RUclips keeps kicking off my comments if I include the manufacturer's link. Try to use Tecapeek PVX from Ensinger plastics. It is a special engineering plastic for bearings. Has very interesting properties, and machines like a dream. Ain't cheap but might be worth it.
Peek has to be the best of the plastics easy to machine as well but extremely expensive!
Bonus points to the guys who came up with the name "Felton AF". 🤣🤣