Gene, still to this day I cannot thank you enough for introducing us to Dolby Surround Upmixer with center spread for 2 channel. It has seriously been the best thing ever listening to my 2 channel music and far exceeds the gimmicky yamaha DSP features. Thank you!!!!
Gene, I've never commented on your site, although I've viewed so much of your content. All I can say is that it's great to see and hear a person who really knows and understands what they are talking about. Also, if you're not sure, you call in experts. Thank you.......
I'm was streaming Tidal with Volumio on a Raspberry Pi up until today. I wasn't confident I was getting atmos to work so I bought a Shield. The audio quality over the Shield is far and away better! There was some really bad distortion and high frequency resonances that were super harsh on Volumio and Chromcast with Tidal and Spotify. They are totally gone now with Shield. Amazing. Im so excited. Thank you for helping motivate the switch!
yes Gene, i discovered spatial audio a few months back. I use Apple TV+ and Apple Music. You are correct that combo works really well. I too have enjoyed the classics. I use Elton John's Rocket Man to demo to my friends. Sounds totally awesome. I too have been encouraged to see so many new albums come out in Spatial (Atmos). Just discovered Lindsey Stirling Christmas Album (Snow Waltz) is totally spatial on every single track.
It takes special music to get me in the Christmas mood. After listening to Linsey Stirling “Snow Waltz” in spatial audio I’m in the Christmas mood!!! What a great Album. The old songs are given more depth and pop. A must listen to in the sweat spot of your Atmos setup. Listened to it in a 5.2.4 system
Spacial Audio is a dream come true as someone who would buy 5.1 mixes of album for years for a home theater in a box system that I have been using since college. I can't wait to upgrade to a full on ATMOS setup. Thinking of going all SVS but have to save up!
I listen to spatial audio a lot. I use an Apple TV 4K 2nd generation and Apple Music. As I am typing this I am listening to The Very Best Of Chicago. Excellent sounding mix! Talking Heads Speaking In Tongues is great for a Spatial Audio demo.
The Roku Ultra supports Dolby Atmos (I've tested it in my own home theater with Tidal). Works very well with my 7.1.4 system, besides Tidal not supporting seamless track transitions on the Roku app.
I tried streaming Spatial Audio on Tidal Via my RokuHD which is their latest generation device. It did not support it. Instead it played 2CH and upmixed with the DSU in my AVR.
Great video Gene, I grew up in the 60’s The Beatles, The Doors, The Beach Boys, Apple Music has all those albums I bought on vinyl in Dolby Atmos (Spatial audio) It’s incredible to listen to those albums again on my 7.1.4 system. Thanks for getting the word out!
With the Apple TV and Apple Music, I highly recommend having an iPhone or IPad to control it. I had never owned an Apple product, but I got the Apple TV on Gene's recommendation specifically for Apple Music spatial audio. It was so clunky trying to navigate and play music using only the remote and onscreen UI. I ended up getting an iPad from a friend which made it so much nicer to be able to browse music on the iPad and have it play on the Apple TV.
Just pulled the trigger on Pioneer’s elite vsx 550(or 505-don’t remember) because my older pioneer didn’t support all the handshake needs from the hdmi of the new apple tv’s and i’m excited. Finding this at just the right time. Love apple and love this content. Thank you!
A good Atmos track is Disney's Encanto: We Don't Talk About Bruno. They remixed it from the movie version. When the older sister (flowers) descends from the ceiling, the song version puts her completely from above in the Atmos speakers. It's cool.
Excellent information as always Gene…I purchased a Dolby Atmos receiver (Pioneer Elite) a year ago that can only do 5.1.2 with upfiring Atmos modules sitting on top of my fronts…wish I would have seen this before purchasing to be able to go at least 5.1.4 minimum…that being said Spatial Audio via Apple TV 4K with my current system is phenomenal… speaker placement by Dolby recommendations and calibrating proper speaker levels was the key…unbelievable is the word most often used when others have listened to it for the first time…someday I will definitely upgrade to your recommendations to obtain the panning effect but wasn’t in the budget at the time…just wanted to let other viewers know that 5.1.2 definitely doesn’t suck even if it isn’t ideal..keep up the great work Gene, you’re channel is always super helpful and reliable!
This is awesome! Now can you please talk about Spacial Audio on headphones, for us who can't afford an actual setup? It onviously won't be 1% as good as a proper setup, but it's still much better than a normal stereo headphone listening experience
Gene I can appreciate it's in the best interest of your channel to promote mainstream services but some of us would also like to enjoy locally stored media from a NAS device or similar. Personally I have added various genres of mp4 music files to my PLEX on Nvidia Shield as Video files (not music) and get full Dolby Atmos music through my Yamaha AVR. I think most subscribers to your channel are "advanced users" and. would appreciate at least a small mention of alternatives.
I've been mostly enjoying the physical Atmos releases that my favorite bands put out. Streaming just isn't much of a hobby to me. I need to have that product in hand where someone can't take it away at any moment. But you definitely have me as I'm sure there are some Atmos mixes that didn't get a physical release.
I'll be listening to Abbey Road in Atmos tonight. Denon x6700h 11.4.2, SVS Ultra Towers, Ultra Center, Dual PB-3000s. Sonance in-wall side, back and Atmos channels. Emotiva XPA-3 for LCR. Oh, and Apple TV 4k Gen 3. I too grew up listening to Abbey Road. Very familiar with the album. Thank you for sharing.
I still haven’t listened to anything in the audio sense in its spatial form, since I have so far only used my headphones to listen to my music, but I will now have to give listening to music via my home theater… I mainly use air pods pro to listen to music, where I am still not sure I hear much of a difference, but I will have to give some of the recommended tracks a listen, for I generally enjoy listening to Beatles, and other classic Rock Bands…
Don't forget about your buddy JB; I told you to look into Apple 4k TV and Apple Spatial and Rocket Man and Tom Petty. Wow she's so is so god damn incredible. I wish I could invite my old college roommates into a time machine and listen to this in my 9.2.4 home theater. Pull out the bong hits.
I still use Meridian 565... it has masterful 2ch splitting into 5-7ch suround. (no Atmos support, just PCM 2ch, DTS and DolbyDigital), M 565 has several variants of 2ch splits that are individually tweakable with several variables, often including width, depth, panning depth etc. Today you can pick up a Meridian 565 for a few 100 dollahs. However, 565 is a bit of a chore to use, everything is kind of manual and tricky to setup due to it's age and lack of On Screen interface
@Frank Lautenbach sorry. Wish I could answer that definitively for you. My guess is: IF it works on anything, it'd work on a Sheild Pro before Apple TV or another competitor.
The new Michael Jackson Thriller is awesome also massive credit to Apple for having a lot of 70s quad releases, these are marked as Dolby Audio, currently listening to Blue Oyster Cult - Tyranny and Mutation in surround, great stuff
Besides the streaming options, don't forget about the Blu-Ray option... However, it's getting more and more costly as many artists start to include Blu-Ray in overpriced deluxe editions only (unfortunately, Steven Wilson is no exception anymore... He used to release Blu-Rays stand-alone up to "To the bone", then things changed...) Anyway, Steven's mixes are one of the best!
Thanks for the video Gene. I just switched to Apple Music from Tidal because of price and was dissatisfied with the playlists and recommendations. I just placed my order for an Apple TV 4k and will pair it with my AVM70 and Monolith 7X. I have a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls with Dynaudio Emit 20's and Def Tech surrounds with only two height speakers at the moment. Now with Dolby and spatial audio, I'm encouraged to purchase another pair of height speakers to take advantage of the new tech. Love the journey but it can be an expensive hobby! : }
You need to test the new Nakamichi dragon 11.4.6 system when it comes out! Love to hear your review. I will probably get 2. I am building a new home and would enjoy your input on things I need to do. It will have a dedicated theater/music room.
Thanks for the informative videos as always, Gene. The Atmos layout recommendation (follow Dolby guidelines) seems to conflict with what you and Anthony Grimani have discussed in the past where you recommend speakers to be slightly closer to the MLP (about 25-30 degrees forward and inside the L&R mains). Has your guidance changed since those videos? Totally okay if guidance has changed but wanted to check.
I will defnitely try the Atmos mixes now. Thanks for the advice. I also use an Apple TV 2nd get for my streaming and was wondering if that is an optimal way to stream without losing any bits so thank you for confirming that it is a good solution. I had been using Airplay 2 off of my phone to my preprocessor and I swear it doesn't sound as good so I switched to using the GUI on the Apple TV.
I can confirm that spatial audio is working via amazon music HD, through my firestick 4k max, which is connected directly to an HDMi port in my Denon AVR. It shows 'atmos' on the front (just atmos, not dd+ ddsurr), the dolby atmos tag shows up in amazon music for the song, instead of UHD, HD, the bitrate info also shows dolby atmos. When I hit info on the remote it says atmos, so I'm, pretty sure it's working. It must have been a recent update because all of a sudden there was an option to turn on spatial audio (about 2 months ago) in the amazon music settings that wasn't there before. All in all I like it a lot. A few titles are echoey, as others have mentioned here. The only real drawback I find is that the recording levels are really low with atmos tracks. I generally have the volume of the avr set to -20db, which works great for all the HD/UHD tracks, but I have to raise it to -14 , or even -10db with atmos to get the same listening volume. Not a big deal really, except that if you are listening to a playlist that has both UHD and atmos tracks in it.
Good video I have AppleTV didn't know they supported spatial audio. I'm just in the middle of setting up my home theater. My AVR has Chromecast built in. Would like to know and can hopefully test that spatial audio with RUclips Music via chromecast works.
Three things… 1. The Apple TV 4K (1st Gen) can play spatial audio from Apple Music too. I am using the 32 GB model. 2. There is another important setting to adjust on the Apple TV. Go to Apps > Music and set Dolby Atmos to Automatic. 3. The Porcupine Tree album is fantastic in Dolby Atmos. And it sounds even better on Blu-ray. I’m really looking forward to Steven Wilson’s upcoming album The Harmony Codex because it’s the first album he has written with Dolby Atmos in mind.
I have all the bells and whistles needed. JBL Synthesis processor, multiple subs, 4 in ceiling speakers, Apple TV gen 2 and subscriptions to all three music services you mentioned. I do have a question. Gene, is Atmos and spatial audio the same thing? I thought Sony has spatial for headphones? Anyway I’ve tried Atmos music but most of the mixes I heard sounded very artificial. I much prefer natural sounding mixes. Maybe I’ll try it again
A little FYI- After some research I decided to try the 2021 Roku Streaming Stick 4K ($25 on Amazon) for use on my Marantz SR7013, SVS 5.2.4 Dolby Atmos system as I prefer the Roku interface and remote to my Firestick 4K and they both now support Dolby Vision. The research part found that while only the Roku Ultra has native Dolby Atmos decoding on the device, almost all the new Rokus support Dolby Atmos passthrough as I confirmed on the Roku Netflix, Disney+, and Vudu apps, which all worked perfectly with all Atmos content with the stick plugged directly into an HDMI input on my Marantz AVR which has built-in Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D decoding. The main caveat is that Roku does not have the Amazon Music HD app, only the regular Amazon Music app, so no Amazon Music Atmos or Auro-3D support on Roku devices. For that, I still have to use the Firestick 4K. I have not tested the Tidal app to see if it properly passes through spacial audio.
👋🖐👋🖐 Read this if your a 5.1.2 person! 5.1.2 still gives you 3d sound it's just limited to the tent shape, of course 5.1.4 is a more clear, but if your surrounds are back a bit and your top middle height configuration is a little wide you can stretch out a good field that has a good cube shape within the tent. And then dts-X is superior at properly utilizing the shape compared to Atmos's more gnarly channel isolation. Most audio engines in games make sounds appear above the front channels if they are in the game space as well as the rears, when they pan through through the top middles there's usually good interpretation at play. A big tip with this is to have your top middles speakers just ahead of the mlp as they are supposed to be but, out to the sides more in the upper corners of the room where the wall meets the ceiling pointing down inward 45 and pigeoned at the MLP, but sideways! having your tweeters toward the front of the room and woofers toward the back! With the help of the widened field, when a sound above comes from the front of the room over head to the back, the front channels simulate height sound it's with a higher frequency that smoothly blends into the tweeters in then backward through the woofers to the rear channels that use lower hollower frequencies when simulating height behind you as appose to the front. Picture a jet plane flying straight over you from the front, "shiiiiiiooOOOHHH" upper frontal sounds are often "hissss" like, while upper rear sounds are a more hollow, "hooow" like. -Polk OWM3'sare affordable and have a great shape for this! 👍 My main system is 7.2.4, I certainly know it's better but, I often can't tell if sounds are from the rear and surrounds, or the rear tops, and I've even thought the heights were on when they weren't with neural-X so, I think 5.1.2 is plenty great! 👍 -oh and thanks Gene! (-edit: damn it, I did some spell checking and I lost my Audioholic heart! 😕)
Atmos music sounds incredible on a Sonos Arc + era 300 surrounds and sub. Ended up returning it for a 3k hifi stereo but I so miss the spatial audio. Listen to the Atmos version of Tom Petty “It’s good to be king” .. transformative audio experience! There just weren’t quite enough Atmos albums I like yet compared to stereo..hopefully in a few years.
Gene I am with you, loving Spatial Audio, especially those classic's remastered. I have 2 Rooms setup to handle, Dolby Atmos, both with Yamaha Receivers. My Rx-v2079 has no issues works fine with Apple TV 4K Dolby Atmos. So I decided I would add an Apple TV 4K to my second setup with an older "4K" Rs-v2077 AVR - Dolby Atmos compatible (AU$2500 in 2015). (I particularly wanted to get Dolby Atmos from the Apple Music App). BUT No Go!! I found out after much frustration that many early “4K” receiver models can't handle the Dolby MAT format Apple decided to use as the Dolby Atmos Transport in lieu of Dolby TrueHD. The best I get is 7.1 PCM uncompressed audio by switching Dolby Atmos "Off" on Apple TV 4K. (With Dolby Atmos "On" I get zero sound}. The 7.1 PCM still sounds pretty good from any Atmos tracks on Apple Music. I pretty much cant listen to Stereo Music now, and always have the Yamaha's Dolby Surround Upmixer on for any 2 track music. Cheers!!
I use Apple 4 k for my streaming system and my amp is Anthem rx 740 and Paradigm speakers and 2 Martin login subs , I wish I would of bought the 1140 and I just did 2 in ceiling poke audio speakers and it sounds awesome 😎
Also, I would love to see a discussion of exactly what devices work with what services for Atmos music. Maybe bring on Don or the Audio Advice guys that have real world experience with setting systems up for customers. For instance, does Amazon do Atmos through an AVR directly, or an Nvidia Shield, or does in need to be a Fire TV? And what are the pros and cons to each solution like ease of use with navigating and browsing for music, can you use a phone or tablet to control it, does it have to be iPhone or Android? Also, a separate, but related topic would be what is the best way to get hi-res lossless on Apple music through an AVR. Apple TV does not do it, only CD quality lossless.
Yeah, Gene is just plain wrong about Amazon being an option. At this point, there's no way to get Atmos out of their apps to play back on real hardware. (Plenty of tracks to choose from if you like the Dolby headphone effect, though!)
@@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside All I know is that mine works (Firestick 4K). Now, when you enable the on screen device information, it shows "Dolby Atmos" instead of 24/196 as the device's highest resolution, and shows the same when playing atmos encoded music streams. There's also an 'enable spatial audio" option in the device settings. My firestick 4k is inserted directly into my RX-V6A.
Thanks for the video just what I needed! I was wondering what Subwoofer would he best for both theater and music. Should I go for a pair of SVS SB 1000 pro or a pair of Rel HT1250 MK2?
I've been trying out Amazon music HD. so far I'm impressed. I've ran it thru heos, casted from my phone, used the app on my laptop connected to avr, , and thru my tv app EARC back to my denon x3700h. Im not sure what quality I'm getting all the different ways. haven't searched and not found a song yet, and see up to 192khz 24 bit. selection seems limitless so far.
Hi Gene, thanks for this summary - I think there is still one issue - I just wrote a mail to Tidal: Tidal connect is not supported for the Tidal app running on Apple TV or Fire TV. As a consequence, you need to have your projector running just to browse and select music - what a waste of energy and lamp/laser live. I want to have remote control via smartphone or tablet (Android preferred). I guess same situation with Apple Music? Are there any options I am missing? If not please help to get Tidal to support Tidal Connect on Apple TV / Fire TV.
Gene, thanks for your content. I haven't noticed you talk about the encoding that all the streamers use. I believe that Atmos streaming (movies or music) isn't encoded in D.TrueHD yet (lossless). It's all in DD+ (lossy). Right? Also note that so far, the Amazon Music app on the FireStick 4K (plugged into an Atmos capable AVR) doesn't support Atmos. They're working on it.
Adding detail to my FireStick experience: The A.Music app (on the FireStick) shows that the track is UltraHD, not Atmos (where the same song from the app on my phone shows Atmos), and it shows that it's playing at 24 bit, 96 KHz (and FLAC). And pressing "Info" on the Denon remote shows that's it's receiving only two channels active (stereo). BUT, it also shows that it's receiving DD+ from the source (FireStick)... and it shows that it's outputting to all of my speakers (5.1.2), which it is. It actually sounds pretty good, but I'm sure it's using it's own algorithm to simulate surround from the stereo input (because the sound mode is DD/Atmos). I know this because when I listen to the Porcupine Tree BluRay Atmos disc, it's a very noticeably different mix. The BR has much more defined locations for the various sounds, and the clarity of those sounds is much better. I tried the Denon Center Spread option which helped in some ways, and hurt in others (less center channel focus for main vocals, but even more muddiness). By the way, that particular album (P.T./C.C.) on A.MusicHD actually shows as "360 Reality Audio" when played on my phone (to headphones) instead of Atmos like some other albums. But I would think that mix should be very similar if not identical to the Atmos one.
I love spatial audio and as Gene said, the Abbey Road mix on Apple music is wonderful. BUT, they have chosen to release each song as a standalone, with a gap between each. That leaves side 2 as a disjointed mess of broken up tracks. I'm confident that's not as George Martin, The Beatles, or God himself intended it to be.
been using atmos sonos full surround for about a yr and atmos for headphones both upmix and real atmos thru headphones for a few weeks also atmos 7.1 pcm upmix real atmos via spekers and headphones is amazing
Hi Gene I am using Comcast to connect it all up with the Internet. I love your videos on home audio equipment some of it I can't afford be lovely if money was no object but thanks for the videos.
Hi Gene, thanks for the Video. Well done. I've set-up our Games Room for Atmos (5.2.2 currently but with wired and speakers for 7.2.2, but I don't think it's a large enough room to benefit from the extra rears. I do have an extra amplifier, so I may try it anyway.) I've really only been satisfied with the audio if the source material is a Disk (4K or regular Blue Ray usually), and not all of those make the grade either. Does any of those streaming options meet (or exceed?) that standard yet?
Thank you Gene for introducing me to Dolby surround sound two years ago when I was looking to upgrade my system. Now that I have it I can’t go back. I have been thinking about streaming music through my system and after this video you talked me into it! Just one question I have heard that there are headphones that support Dolby atoms. Is this true? If it is do you or anybody on here recommend a pair a brand to go with. Thank you for everything and keep up the great work.
Thank you very much for your answer. I’ll do my homework on what to get. Do you have any videos on headphone or anybody you recommend to watch to get ideas?
Thank you for making this video Gene. I have a question for you. As I’m sure you know. AVRs from Denon and Marantz don’t require external streaming devices such as an Apple TV, because they have major audio services such as Tidal and Amazon music built in. I stream this way using the HEOS app. However, I cannot seem to figure out if I can listen to spatial audio this way. My main source is Amazon music. When I open the Amazon Music app on my phone, there are many tracks listed as “Atmos“. However, when I open the HEOS app to stream music directly from my receiver, there are no labels indicating spatial audio or Atmos. I was just wondering if you have any information on whether using the internal “HEOS” software on my Marantz receiver will allow me to listen to spatial audio. Thanks again for an excellent and informative video.
I have a Denon AVR, and also noticed the HEOS doesn't support Spatial/Atmos (which I expected cuz I read that). I bought a FireStick (the latest wifi6 version) which claims to support Atmos. Using the Amazon Music app (on the FireStick plugged into the Denon), when I open a track on my AM HD account that I know is Atmos capable (cuz it shows and plays that way on my phone), the Atmos icon doesn't appear. When I play it, sure enough Denon says it's receiving stereo. If I try to select Atmos mode on the AVR for that source, it shows up, which means it recognizes the source is capable of it, but it doesn't work (it plays as stereo). It does automatically upmix to surround (by default), so if you don't pay attention to the actual input details, you may not even notice it's not working. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with Amazon tech support. At first they said it should work. After going through all the details of my setup, they finally admitted that it didn't. I'm sure they'll eventually get it to work. But as of 1.5 weeks ago, it doesn't. They're supposed to contact me once they come up with a time line to fix. I'm not holding my breath. In the mean time, I'm enjoying the few Blu-ray atmos audio discs I have. I've enjoyed Amazon Music HD for about 2 years now with no problems - the HD is great and the cost for my whole family account is very reasonable, so I don't want to switch to Apple (I used to have Tidal). Amazon is a better deal. Of course, my FireStick does support Atmos with video content (Netflix...). Which is Dolby Digital + encoded (like the music will be). Not telling how long before they allow lossless Atmos audio (via Dolby TrueHD encoding).
Gene, are you really sure that John claimed a 5/7.1.2 speaker layout will not have 3D objects rendered dynamically? I think what he said is that up to this layout all speakers can still be addressed by static bed channels (even though the 2 height channels are Atmos objects but with fixed coordinates), beginning with 4 heights this is no more the case so these additional speakers have no dedicated channel bed associated leaving it up to the renderer to map objects to it dynamically. However, I still believe that the renderer tries to map objects with arbitrary 3D coordinates as best as possible to the speakers available even in a 5/7.1.2 setup. I think John's point was just that there is not much benefit as you could just pre-render to the fixed bed channels instead. Does it make sense?
Hi. Gene. I have a 7.1.4. Mostly tested in Amazonnprime atmos movies. Or Netflix. I subscribe to Apple Music. But in music listening thru my atmos Marantz receiver I see only two channel input with. multi channel deciding. My streaming is thru ny I phone 12. Which displays atmos and spatial audio. My Apple TV is not new 4K. generation
Thanks for the video, but how do connect, these devices?, Apple/fire. to an AVR , all have probems, apple seem not able to output hi res, amazon refuses to output hi res to my Denon(A4700h), , streamers dont output DA, but can do the Hi Res, seem s to me you have to use two different systems to get one or the other, Note on Qobuz, Do they have an app for apple tv 4K or Firestick ?. so I don't think they are going over to DA , they have just anounce 360 as their new thing listen with headphones, But keep up the good work, and please enlighten me where i'm going wrong
I am streaming spatial audio from Amazon HD via a BlueSound Node and love it! Originally, I only liked those tracks that were recorded in Dolby Atmos, but after some tighter time alignment with my surrounds, even 2-channel recordings sound better upmixed in Dolby. The newer music really takes advantage of the entire sound bubble though.
@@steveloch3875 Apparently you are correct, and what I am actually listening to is an upmixed (Dobly) PCM signal as the BlueSound website shows that only certain soundbars and PowerNodes support Dolby at this time. It still sounds very good though (better than 2-channel.....oh no, the heresy!). I might have to try the Apple TV also and see if there is a noticeable difference.
Gene, can you please address Apple Music's Spatial Audio/Atmos playback issue of not supporting gapless playback through AppleTV? I have the two latest AppleTVs (2021 and 2022 versions) with 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 connections to a Denon 4400h and 4500h and neither setup plays back gapless tracks properly. The easiest test for this is the second side of The Beatles Abbey Road, where songs blend into each other. So Mean Mr. Mustard blends into Polythene Pam into She Came In Through The Bathroom window. Playing it on the Blu-Ray Atmos release disc, all songs blend properly. But on Apple Music, gaps of silence/dropouts happen between each track, ruining the experience. I hope if you are able to recreate this, you and Audioholics can raise the profile of this issue and force Apple to remedy it.
Thank you for another very helpful video. Couple questions come to mind. Is the spatial audio clearly better than an upmix with neural :X? I could guess the answer but wonder if some listening data exists. Opinions welcome too. Another question regarding how to stream spatial audio. I do have an Apple TV but my Anthem AVR does support streaming as well. Which is the way to go?
It really depends. When Spatial audio is properly mixed with object panning, it's far superior to upmixing 2CH. When it's fake Spatial Audio like much of the older stuff, I'd rather listen to 2CH upmixed with the DSU or Auromatic IF it's a music source that doesn't have a lot of decorrelated info in the mix.
I do have two Apple TV 4ks also but I'm running 5.2.2 it sucks because I'm wanting to go up to a 5.2.4 since now that I know that 4 height channels are just as important in the home theatre industry. My next avr I'm going to upgrade to is the onkyo RZ 50 since I have a 7.2 Tx model onkyo
I think they're waiting for what Google do with Google Caviar which is said to be taking on Dolby Vision & Dolby Atmos as a free/open licence. If Google get it right, everything will probably support Google Caviar because it won't cost streaming services, application developers or hardware manufacturers anything to implement. Everyone is waiting for Goolge, they are the biggest player in music and video streaming playback by billions of users compared to even Spotify & Netflix who are the biggest subscription-only services.
Just listened to Porcupine Tree (Dignity). Sound is kind of like the later Beatle songs only better. I really wasn't much of a fan when the started their later mixes. I liked when they first started better. I will have to listen to more of porcupine tree though and see if the other recordings are as good as Dignity. Thanks for the info.
I've commented here about my disappointment with Amazon Music Atmos offering (only allowed on VERY few specific devices, not even there own FireSticks). So I'm considering switching to Tidal or Apple. Tidal HIFI Plus (needed for Atmos) family plan is 300/yr! I'm currently paying 160/yr for Amazon HD family (already a prime member). The Apple plan is much more competitive (I think 170/yr for annual payments), but 90% of my listening is in my music room (treated bedroom) on one of my many windows pcs (external DAC to Focal studio monitors), and I really don't like iTunes. I guess I could use a browser, but that's probably even worse? My HT setup is in the basement (AVR/FireStick/BluRay). I have a general dislike for Apple products that stems back to my engineering days where all of our tools/apps ran on PCs not Macs (usually, the apps weren't even available for Apple stuff). Sometimes the target device was an Apple product, which was always more of a pain than android. And Apple has ticked me off over the years because of their semi-closed ecosystem. If you go all in, and get everything from them, it's fine. No thanks. So I'm torn. I guess I'll give Amazon a few months to get their act together (until my subscription renewal date). If they're still dragging their feet, I'll try out Apple Music. Supposedly, it will work on my FireStick and Android phones. If I have to buy an Apple TV box, no biggy. By the way, even though Amazon Music (Unlimited) costs less than Apple and Tidal, it gives 1.66x more to the artists than Apple, and 1.3x more than Tidal.
Hi Hope you get this as it was a little while ago. I am in the process of setting up my first home theatre. I want it for spacial audio as well as movies. So I have apple music subscription and apple tv 3rd gen so all good there. I have the new Sony TA AN 1000 which is 7 ch so 2 atmos. We can only get the sony 7 channel in UK. I went sony as I have the Bravia TV and the rear of the room speaker placement wont be optimal as surrounds would be in ceiling or back wall and not on side wall as not easily possible. 2 Atmos and front LCR will be located in wall correctly. The 360 mapping should help adjust this is my theory. So my question is will the spacial audio still work on 7 channel system being aware of your comments on lack of panning. I could return AVR and go 9 channel but would have to be other brand and not sure how they work with my intended setup. Thanks in advance
Thank you Gene for the video. I always wanted to get into immersive music. I tried 5-ch SACD and DVD-audio before, a few of them are good, some sounds artificial, and there are not many albums available in surround to try anyway, so I stopped. How is the Atoms music compared to SACD/DVD-audio surround sound? Which in-ceiling speakers would you recommend for this purpose? It seems Klipsch has a series of inexpensive 8-inch in-ceiling on sale, from $80 a pair to $200 each.
There's a quite a few Dolby Atmos albums on blu ray disc now. Go online and find one you like the look of, give it a try. Usually there's a stereo, 5.1, Atmos mixes on the disc. So you can easily compare them 🎶
Thanks, Gene, for this information. My concern is how nice the streaming app is. I’ve used and found Apple Music’s app/interface ok, Amazon is not the greatest, and RUclips Music, my current main streaming provider, has a decent app layout. Which do you prefer? Could you make a video showcasing the different services app? Rate it in ease of use, display, functionality, etc. I want to utilize something like Amazon HD or Tidal to get HD streaming and possibly the spatial audio you speak of. I feel this type of review may help others, too. Thx!!
It's worth pointing out the Shield Pro is the only streamer out of all of them that'll output real TrueHD Atmos from Plex. Apple TV is lossy. So for the best of both worlds the Shield Pro seems better.
So what streaming service do you use? From what I've gathered the shield tv platform does not play well with Apple Music. If you are going to rip music, sure this setup is best. But if you are streaming, I'm not convinced.
I’ve been using Roku Ultra for accessing atmos movies and music (Amazon hd). Contrary to what you said about Roku not supporting spatial music, I get atmos movies and music from numerous streaming channels . My HTP-1 indicates it’s processing atmos programming and I can hear spatial content from my 7.2.4 layout. Am I missing something?
Roku supports Atmos for streaking video content like Netflix Amazon Prime, etc but AFAIK it does NOT support Spatial Audio music streaming at least for Apple Music and Tidal.
Legit question. Not trying to be snarky I’m confused. How is spatial audio mixed? When you hear a band unless there are sound effects , the band is in front of you. Or an orchestra . The orchestra is in front of you. So what are the speakers behind you playing? Or the top ones? ( maybe the top are playing ambience ?) I can totally see how a center speaker would help . Appreciate your response in advance.
It depends on the artist. Porcupine Tree uses the surrounds to expand the front Soundstage. The Weeknd does true object panning around the room to make you feel surround all around and above you. Some artists use it to enhance the listening space to give you a sense of venue, others use it for effects to enhance the music experience.
@@Audioholics ah ok. So it would in most instances be for ambience. Or whatever else the artist might want to add as a form of creativity. The ambience of a venue or room would be pretty cool. Would you need to get all speakers from the same source though? To keep freq and sound sig consistent ?
I listen to mostly studio produced music and "digital age" music to a varying degree of crazy (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers to Igorrr and Infected Mushrooms) and good music 2ch upmix brings alot of entertainment as you are transported "into" the band playing. You can (depending on brand of processor) choose to just scoot 6 ft closer or get enveloped in a partially headphone experience. Almost all music modes I use will still have a solid front stage and then the DSP algorithms select minor audio material that may be out of phase and move those closer, right into your head, Yes, its like the some music noises manifest inside your head akin to headphones. I have not a bloody clue how the processor can sort out echo noises and move those more towards rear... but it can, unreal but oh so entertaining. Like Gene said, these are not gimmicky "church", "Hall" or "Stadium" echo effects, no no, it sort of preserves the music energy but distributes it closer more immersive. Now, I can only really talk about my experience with my 25 year old Meridian processor, but hopefully modern DSPs are atleast as good. From what I understand the selection of 2ch upmix DSP options seem slim compared to what I have at my fingertips: Music, Music Logic, Super stereo, Ambisonic, Trifield + a few options for even mono material. These 5 different modes all have their respective uses, i.e. some are more suited classic orchestra, some do best with studio produced material and some perform best with live band recordings.
Yes, I'm really enjoying exploring Apple Music and AmazonHD spatial audio offerings in my 7.2.4 dedicated theater. Thanks for pointing me to spatial audio in your earlier videos. In general, however, I find that it is acoustic music such as jazz, instrumental and particularly classical that really benefits the most. Check out Anne Queffelec Beethoven's Last 3 Piano sonatas, Leif Ove Andsnes Dvorak Tone Poems to see what Atmos does for a solo piano, for example. The sound quality, even through the limited resolution AppleTV, is quite frankly outstanding on a notoriously difficult instrument to reproduce. The Atmos mixes add a great deal to the "you are there" experience. While not my cup of tea for material, Lang Lang's Disney Book has terrific realism in Atmos. Two others to check out, John Williams Violin Concerto #2 with Anne Sophie Mutter- fantastic in Atmos with some real bass and dynamics at times. And, lastly, Esther Abrami's newest eponymous hauntingly beautiful and refreshing release is gorgeous in Atmos. The eighth track on that album, a Mozart variation has a low bass subwoofer underpinning at times that is simply awesome. I listened to the 2 channel mix and, while it is there, you probably wouldn't notice much if at all. It doesn't sound like the bass in the Atmos is too hot though, thankfully. It's not the kind of music that you typically get any sub action from though. I'm not nearly as impressed with studio music, such as rock and pop, etc. in Atmos. I find it thins things out sonically and doesn't add to the musical experience in general. At most it fills sonic space, but at the cost of sounding real or musical. It usually just sounds like they are trying to create an acoustic space that was never there to begin with. Not all of that genre sounds bad of course. Evanesence's The Bitter Truth is one of the better sounding releases in my opinion. The new Disturbed album isn't as good in Atmos. Just my 0.02. One thing that I've not heard mentioned is regarding LCR placement and spatial audio. I do notice when the tweeter of the center channel are not in horizontal alignment with the fronts (i.e. under the screen or TV rather than behind) it really negatively impacts the sound stage. In my theater with an AT screen, it's awesome. In my system where the center channel is below my screen, it's obvious and a bit odd. You need that visual cue for the brain to ignore the height discrepancy to some extent and you don't get that with just music. Thx Gene.
Hi Gene (and everyone else). I have a full Atmos setup Yamaha Aventage 3050/Epson projector and Apple TV 4k and an Apple SE phone. Is it possible to listen to music from the Apple TV 4k without my projector on? Every time I turn the projector off it seems to cease audio playback. I don't really need a projector on when all I'm doing is listening to lovely Atmos. Thanks in advance for any tips. N
Watched your archived videos and links regarding HT formats and Dolby surround up mixing…what happens Ed to your skepticism of the bouncy bouncy technology?????
Is there a way to objectively measure how precise a system is at rendering audio positionally (x,y,z) in a given room with a given speaker layout? For instance, say X audio object should be located at (x,y,z) but it is registering (via the measurement instrument) as (x1,y1,z1)? Given that ability, one could objectively seek to improve their system. And interesting questions could be asked and objectively answered. How well can the system resolve near sounds versus mid or far sounds? How well does the system track horizontal versus vertical movements? How well does one format compare to another given a layout? Etc.
You can't really compare formats/layout without a "rosetta stone," of which there is none. The closest we have are console games, which all work differently and aren't using the same delivery formats as movies and music. You can get an idea if your immersive setup works by testing in a game, but that won't necessarily tell you how well your layout works in a movie. Most films and almost all immersive music is now mixed and delivered in Atmos. The best way to get correct Atmos playback is to follow the Dolby spec with your speaker positions. If you install your speakers in correct relative positions, the sound field from your main listening position will be as close as you can get to what the mix engineer heard. It would be nice to get a tighter spec rather than a range, but a 10-degree variability is pretty close for most of us with our seating arrangements anyhow. Yes... It's possible to test DTS:X on Dolby layouts and Dolby on Auro:3D layouts, but the results will be meaningless. Maybe you could probably find one movie that has a "benchmark" set of atmospheric effects and was released in multiple formats, then compare how those effects sound on the different layouts/decode engines... but liking a particular effect is no guarantee that you're hearing what the mix engineer wanted you to hear.
@@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside Thanks for the detailed reply! I appreciate it! :) I was wondering if there was a potential way to come up with an objective Rosetta Stone. Perhaps we are still a ways from getting to one yet. :) I have really gone down the rabbit hole on this and been reading and watching some really interesting information. The two videos that Audioholics did with Edgar Choueiri were extremely interesting on this topic (improved realism of audio for music, VR, and for me: games, and movies); I recommend those videos. :) I started down the rabbit hole because I had heard some mention that surround formats (including Dolby Atmos) have a problem rending distance proximity with the listening position and especially close to the listening position. This went against the way I understood Atmos or Auro (as being 3d sound with objects moving and positioned in 3d space). The ability to render directionality is good, but the proximity of objects (near, mid, far) can't be rendered very accurately. And sounds tend to be located on the periphery of a sphere and correlate stronger with the speaker locations (from what I have heard; I am new to this). This is unfortunate as sounds that we perceive near to us can have dramatic impact. I am looking toward what the future might be and I consider surround formats to be in roughly the same general category (though as you pointed out Atmos is dominant). If we had a way to measure the rough ability of the surround formats to resolve objects in actual 3d space, we would be able to tell when those formats (like Dolby Atmos) improved and especially as regards other spatial audio techniques (beyond the surround formats). Binaural audio over speakers with a flat crosstalk cancellation filter (it no longer colors the audio like it did in the past), does a much better job of resolving objects in 3d space (versus the surround formats), especially with headtracking and it gets even better with a personalized head related transfer function (HRTF) and this can potentially get even better with higher order ambisonics (HOA). So, I was curious about what we could potentially measure. After reading some on it and seeing some of the work that others have done (search youtube for "Sound Camera Presentation john duffy" for instance) I had a potential idea (again keep in mind that I am new to this stuff). If one limited to a known simple audio object and say given a 1000 cubic foot room, using an 8 cubic foot block (2' by 2' by 2') resolution in space, and a known location of a microphone array like Duffy's, if you could figure out what that sound source should look like on that microphone array when that audio object was in all of the possible cubes (125 cubes). And then compare that to what the microphone array actually picks up for each of those locations. The spatial audio system would playback each of those 125 positions and they would be recorded and/or visualized with the microphone array. Another very interesting read for me: If interested, search on google for "Psychoacoustic Principle, Methods, and Problems with Perceived Distance Control in Spatial Audio". The surround formats don't do a very good job of preserving some of the proximal (whether an object is near or far in space) cues whereas binaural and ambisonics maintain them. Anyway, such fun stuff to learn about and to research. And I love listening to Atmos music. :) Adding resources as I find them: Another cool and related youtube video to search for: "The effects of early reflections on proximity, localization, and loudness"
Hi Gene thanks for info. I have found that the Amazon music claims to be Dolby Atmos but my processor is recieving just a left and right stereo signal. When I stream an Atmos move the signal is much different. So far I think that Amazons claim their streaming music in Dolby of any form is really not true.
Still can't get Atmos on Amazon Music HD through a firestick 4K directly plugged into the AVR. Maybe someday it will work. Not in any hurry, I'm happy with the 24/192 stereo capabilities.
I've got an Onkyo (tx-rz820 ) that supports Airplay, and Nvidia Shield Pro. However, when I airplay spatial audio (Apple Music App) to my Onkyo it doesn't seem to take spatial (shows up as 2 channel) and the Shield won't accept Airplay, period. Is there any way to do this with my equipment?
Just found this after commenting on other video Gene. Be home later on so will check it out..tbh i treid amazon hd and it wasnt hd so unsubscribed.. But maybe i did not have it set up correctly within the app.. Atm i only got the 2 atmos. Currently looking at 9.2 so i cant get the 4. P.s if i recall when i was trying out amazon music hd i was doing it through a web page on my windows pc. My pc is connected to avr via hdmi..but maybe thats why i wasnt getting hd audio maybe it has to be done via the cube on amazon music app etc.
I’ve checked my AppleTV and done some online research, and as far as I can tell, the Amazon music app on Apple TV does not yet support spatial audio/Dolby Atmos. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this.
Hi, is it possible to get Atmos from Amazon Music with an Apple TV 4k? As far as I know, you get Atmos from Amazon Music only with their own speakers...at least here in Germany. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe its a copyright thing? Can someone clarify that? Would be interesting to know, if that's a regional thing... Thanks ;)
I am not finding much evidence that Amazon Music app on Apple TV works with AVR's in the US at this time for spatial audio/Atmos. Perhaps with headphones or some of their devices. I did a quick "chat" with amazon music support before work and it is "supported" but can find little evidence in the wild it will work as we want with AVR's. I hope I am wrong and would be thrilled to be so.
@@michaelgordon6071 Quote from the original Amazon music Dolby page... What happens if my device does not support Dolby Atmos? The Amazon Music application will enable a Dolby Atmos music experience on all mobile devices compatible with the app. Amazon has enabled application-level decoding and rendering of Dolby Atmos Music for headphone playback. So it looks like, no Atmos for AVR Users...🙄😮💨🤷
Yes, I strongly believe that to be correct. I did a quick online chat with them and called- headphones and select devices support spatial audio but not through AVR’s. They do make it difficult to suss that out. I see that has been confirmed by someone posting in this thread. I will not bother to try. Gene liked Apple Music so may go with that.
Spatial music is as good as… the mix. Same with Atmos for movies. I have same base speakers all around for ideal cohesion but there is tone of Atmos music which is just bad. There are few mixes which are really well made but seems this is quite often worse than in case of Atmos for movies - when stereo imaging is softened, detail lost but doesn’t bring any cool spatial effects. I wish they came up with a way to record music for each channel individually to replicate sitting in front of the artist
Hi Gene, Maybe there is something I'm doing wrong. When I'm playing music in surround, I do gain amazing "immersion" sound, but everytime, I'm also loosing something. Sound imaging is expending for some instruments, but it's like voices and drums now coming just from the center channel. The drum sound so setback. Then I've got this "Voices" enhance function that I can use. It will "extend" the voices and drums left and wright, but then it just doesn't sound right. What I'm I doing wrong ?
If you're upmixing 2CH content with the DSU, enable "center spread". If you're listening to native multichannel music, maybe your calibration needs to be checked.
One question. I saw the atmos diagram. Of speakers. The atmos speakers on ceiling one pair should be exactly on top of your listening position Ie on top of your head. The other two ceiling to be. In the centre of front speakers and rear atmos. Currently my atmos are not on top of my head. But in either side on ceiling Also the same wattage should be applied to power these speakers. ? As that of main LCR. Let me have your email I will send picture of atmos in my set up for you to suggest it’s placement is correct or not. Thx. A lot. Regds. Ravi.
Listen to this @Audioholics. I made a comment on TechnoDads RUclips channel concerning the 2 height speakers in an Atmos setup not being object based. This is the very long and technical response I got from another viewer: "In reality everything is an object in Dolby Atmos, it's just beds in terms of DAPS/DAMS are rendered as static objects without panning metadata, whereas full objects are dynamic and so do have it. For consumer playback all 128 objects (includes the 10 bed objects) get spatially grouped into 16 elements. ie 16 clusters of objects that are closest to each other in order to squeeze all this into the low bit-rate delivery (TrueHD is still clustered too, just not limited by bit-rate restrictions online). This all then gets printed to 5.1 or 7.1 pcm audio channels and the Atmos object panning data interleaved is used to decode the objects in those 16 groups back out to your speakers. So 7.1.2, 5.1.2 are all perfectly capable of accurately delivering objects, it's just that the .2 will not be capable of moving sound at a high resolution above you. ie only left to right above you, not front to back or diagonally."
I would agree It is not accurate to say that you won't hear objects (or object panning) without minimum of 4 height speakers. One of the major selling points of Atmos is that 1 mix that can be downmixed and sound as good as possible on whatever speaker count the consumer has. My guess is ....the confusion came from the explanation of the limits of "beds" when mixing. Any elements assigned to bed tracks during the mix process are limited to 7.1.2..all that means is the panning resolution of those elements won't take advantage of more than 7.1.2 (there are no rules for what mixers determine should be beds vs objects, but mixers tend to put things that don't move around as much on beds). Any element that was assigned to an object will still come through your 5.1/7.1.2 etc.. system and end up in the appropriate speakers. Obviously you won't hear a movement the mixer made between speakers you don't have..but you will still hear that movement translated to the speakers you do have
@Paul Perret you absolutely cannot have front to rear object panning without 4 height channels. John made this very clear that he ALWAYS recommends 4 heights for Atmos.
Why isn't Amazon adding Dolby Atmos music to it's app on Fire TV devices like the Cube I have? I don't want that crap for headphones, I want it full on my home theater!
Absolutely. Doesn't work on my FireStick either (stereo only). Why would you want it on headphones! By the way, they claim it DOES work on the FireStick, but it doesn't yet (their tech support admitted it to me).
@@Ctripp2448 especially since Apple music and Tidal music have had it for a long time now. I LOVE Amazon music, sound quality is fantastic but they need to add Atmos music to devices for Home theater.
@@JC-bl9bo Correct. They should have it fairly soon. I commented with more detail above. Atmos is cool. I like it, but remember even when they do have it, it will be like all the other streamers (Apple/Tidal), over DD+ not D.TrueHD. In other words, not lossless. If you want lossless, it's only stereo for now (via streaming).
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
![DOLBY ATMOS 7.1.2 "Dinosaurs in Atmos"- OFFICIAL THEATER DOLBY VISION [4KHDR] DEMO DOWNLOAD INCLUDED](/img/1.gif)
Gene, still to this day I cannot thank you enough for introducing us to Dolby Surround Upmixer with center spread for 2 channel. It has seriously been the best thing ever listening to my 2 channel music and far exceeds the gimmicky yamaha DSP features. Thank you!!!!
Hello how are you?, where is the option of center spread?, I put dolby surround but I can not find that option.
Gene, I've never commented on your site, although I've viewed so much of your content. All I can say is that it's great to see and hear a person who really knows and understands what they are talking about. Also, if you're not sure, you call in experts. Thank you.......
This is what I have been deaming of..I thought the old Quadraphonic music was the holy grail, but Spatial music will now be my goal !
I'm was streaming Tidal with Volumio on a Raspberry Pi up until today. I wasn't confident I was getting atmos to work so I bought a Shield. The audio quality over the Shield is far and away better! There was some really bad distortion and high frequency resonances that were super harsh on Volumio and Chromcast with Tidal and Spotify. They are totally gone now with Shield. Amazing. Im so excited. Thank you for helping motivate the switch!
yes Gene, i discovered spatial audio a few months back. I use Apple TV+ and Apple Music. You are correct that combo works really well. I too have enjoyed the classics. I use Elton John's Rocket Man to demo to my friends. Sounds totally awesome. I too have been encouraged to see so many new albums come out in Spatial (Atmos). Just discovered Lindsey Stirling Christmas Album (Snow Waltz) is totally spatial on every single track.
It takes special music to get me in the Christmas mood. After listening to Linsey Stirling “Snow Waltz” in spatial audio I’m in the Christmas mood!!! What a great Album. The old songs are given more depth and pop. A must listen to in the sweat spot of your Atmos setup. Listened to it in a 5.2.4 system
Agreed on Rocket Man as a demo track! It's so good
Spacial Audio is a dream come true as someone who would buy 5.1 mixes of album for years for a home theater in a box system that I have been using since college. I can't wait to upgrade to a full on ATMOS setup. Thinking of going all SVS but have to save up!
I listen to spatial audio a lot. I use an Apple TV 4K 2nd generation and Apple Music. As I am typing this I am listening to The Very Best Of Chicago. Excellent sounding mix! Talking Heads Speaking In Tongues is great for a Spatial Audio demo.
The Roku Ultra supports Dolby Atmos (I've tested it in my own home theater with Tidal). Works very well with my 7.1.4 system, besides Tidal not supporting seamless track transitions on the Roku app.
I tried streaming Spatial Audio on Tidal Via my RokuHD which is their latest generation device. It did not support it. Instead it played 2CH and upmixed with the DSU in my AVR.
@@Audioholics You should get it, Tidal streams 5.1 dd+joc so decodable up to 9.1.6 playback.
Great video Gene, I grew up in the 60’s The Beatles, The Doors, The Beach Boys, Apple Music has all those albums I bought on vinyl in Dolby Atmos (Spatial audio) It’s incredible to listen to those albums again on my 7.1.4 system. Thanks for getting the word out!
I luv spatial audio!! Great Video Gene💯 Billie Eilish spatial mixes are absolutely impressive and a freaking joy to experience and listen too!
With the Apple TV and Apple Music, I highly recommend having an iPhone or IPad to control it. I had never owned an Apple product, but I got the Apple TV on Gene's recommendation specifically for Apple Music spatial audio. It was so clunky trying to navigate and play music using only the remote and onscreen UI. I ended up getting an iPad from a friend which made it so much nicer to be able to browse music on the iPad and have it play on the Apple TV.
I have to check it out! I remember being blown away back in the day by 5.1 mixof the Nirvana Unplugged
Just pulled the trigger on Pioneer’s elite vsx 550(or 505-don’t remember) because my older pioneer didn’t support all the handshake needs from the hdmi of the new apple tv’s and i’m excited. Finding this at just the right time. Love apple and love this content. Thank you!
A good Atmos track is Disney's Encanto: We Don't Talk About Bruno. They remixed it from the movie version.
When the older sister (flowers) descends from the ceiling, the song version puts her completely from above in the Atmos speakers. It's cool.
Nice I’ll have to check it out.
Excellent information as always Gene…I purchased a Dolby Atmos receiver (Pioneer Elite) a year ago that can only do 5.1.2 with upfiring Atmos modules sitting on top of my fronts…wish I would have seen this before purchasing to be able to go at least 5.1.4 minimum…that being said Spatial Audio via Apple TV 4K with my current system is phenomenal… speaker placement by Dolby recommendations and calibrating proper speaker levels was the key…unbelievable is the word most often used when others have listened to it for the first time…someday I will definitely upgrade to your recommendations to obtain the panning effect but wasn’t in the budget at the time…just wanted to let other viewers know that 5.1.2 definitely doesn’t suck even if it isn’t ideal..keep up the great work Gene, you’re channel is always super helpful and reliable!
You're ahead of the game having what you got already. Enjoy!
This is awesome!
Now can you please talk about Spacial Audio on headphones, for us who can't afford an actual setup? It onviously won't be 1% as good as a proper setup, but it's still much better than a normal stereo headphone listening experience
Gene I can appreciate it's in the best interest of your channel to promote mainstream services but some of us would also like to enjoy locally stored media from a NAS device or similar. Personally I have added various genres of mp4 music files to my PLEX on Nvidia Shield as Video files (not music) and get full Dolby Atmos music through my Yamaha AVR. I think most subscribers to your channel are "advanced users" and. would appreciate at least a small mention of alternatives.
I've been mostly enjoying the physical Atmos releases that my favorite bands put out. Streaming just isn't much of a hobby to me. I need to have that product in hand where someone can't take it away at any moment. But you definitely have me as I'm sure there are some Atmos mixes that didn't get a physical release.
I'll be listening to Abbey Road in Atmos tonight. Denon x6700h 11.4.2, SVS Ultra Towers, Ultra Center, Dual PB-3000s. Sonance in-wall side, back and Atmos channels. Emotiva XPA-3 for LCR. Oh, and Apple TV 4k Gen 3. I too grew up listening to Abbey Road. Very familiar with the album. Thank you for sharing.
Revolver sounds great too! Specifically Tomorrow Never Knows, that song has some great panning
Yes, I enjoy spatial audio music much as you describe. My system is 7.1.4, using wired Apple TV 4K (32GB) and a subscription to Apple Music. 👍
Thanks for a usable set of equipment parameters. A room size to equipment/power would also be a plus in the future.
Thanks young man.
I still haven’t listened to anything in the audio sense in its spatial form, since I have so far only used my headphones to listen to my music, but I will now have to give listening to music via my home theater… I mainly use air pods pro to listen to music, where I am still not sure I hear much of a difference, but I will have to give some of the recommended tracks a listen, for I generally enjoy listening to Beatles, and other classic Rock Bands…
Don't forget about your buddy JB; I told you to look into Apple 4k TV and Apple Spatial and Rocket Man and Tom Petty.
Wow she's so is so god damn incredible. I wish I could invite my old college roommates into a time machine and listen to this in my 9.2.4 home theater.
Pull out the bong hits.
9.2.4 sounds like a dream
I still use Meridian 565... it has masterful 2ch splitting into 5-7ch suround. (no Atmos support, just PCM 2ch, DTS and DolbyDigital), M 565 has several variants of 2ch splits that are individually tweakable with several variables, often including width, depth, panning depth etc. Today you can pick up a Meridian 565 for a few 100 dollahs. However, 565 is a bit of a chore to use, everything is kind of manual and tricky to setup due to it's age and lack of On Screen interface
I use the Nvidia shield pro with Tidal. Works & sounds great. Great video!
Is Tidal Connect working for you?
@@makemeinvisible1 I don't use Tidal Connect. Are you having issues with it?
Well, it's not supported on Apple TV nor Fire TV. So I was curious if it's supported on Nvidia shield.
@Frank Lautenbach sorry. Wish I could answer that definitively for you. My guess is: IF it works on anything, it'd work on a Sheild Pro before Apple TV or another competitor.
The new Michael Jackson Thriller is awesome also massive credit to Apple for having a lot of 70s quad releases, these are marked as Dolby Audio, currently listening to Blue Oyster Cult - Tyranny and Mutation in surround, great stuff
I did know Thriller was in Atmos. Thanks!
Besides the streaming options, don't forget about the Blu-Ray option... However, it's getting more and more costly as many artists start to include Blu-Ray in overpriced deluxe editions only (unfortunately, Steven Wilson is no exception anymore... He used to release Blu-Rays stand-alone up to "To the bone", then things changed...) Anyway, Steven's mixes are one of the best!
Thanks for the video Gene. I just switched to Apple Music from Tidal because of price and was dissatisfied with the playlists and recommendations. I just placed my order for an Apple TV 4k and will pair it with my AVM70 and Monolith 7X. I have a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls with Dynaudio Emit 20's and Def Tech surrounds with only two height speakers at the moment. Now with Dolby and spatial audio, I'm encouraged to purchase another pair of height speakers to take advantage of the new tech. Love the journey but it can be an expensive hobby! : }
You need to test the new Nakamichi dragon 11.4.6 system when it comes out! Love to hear your review. I will probably get 2. I am building a new home and would enjoy your input on things I need to do. It will have a dedicated theater/music room.
Thanks for the informative videos as always, Gene. The Atmos layout recommendation (follow Dolby guidelines) seems to conflict with what you and Anthony Grimani have discussed in the past where you recommend speakers to be slightly closer to the MLP (about 25-30 degrees forward and inside the L&R mains). Has your guidance changed since those videos? Totally okay if guidance has changed but wanted to check.
Great question.
Enjoyed that! I was surprised by Roku not being involved.
Hey Gene, you are right about the new Porcupine Tree album. It sounds terrific and that is in 2 channel even. Can’t wait to hear it in surround.
I will defnitely try the Atmos mixes now. Thanks for the advice. I also use an Apple TV 2nd get for my streaming and was wondering if that is an optimal way to stream without losing any bits so thank you for confirming that it is a good solution. I had been using Airplay 2 off of my phone to my preprocessor and I swear it doesn't sound as good so I switched to using the GUI on the Apple TV.
I can confirm that spatial audio is working via amazon music HD, through my firestick 4k max, which is connected directly to an HDMi port in my Denon AVR. It shows 'atmos' on the front (just atmos, not dd+ ddsurr), the dolby atmos tag shows up in amazon music for the song, instead of UHD, HD, the bitrate info also shows dolby atmos. When I hit info on the remote it says atmos, so I'm, pretty sure it's working. It must have been a recent update because all of a sudden there was an option to turn on spatial audio (about 2 months ago) in the amazon music settings that wasn't there before. All in all I like it a lot. A few titles are echoey, as others have mentioned here. The only real drawback I find is that the recording levels are really low with atmos tracks. I generally have the volume of the avr set to -20db, which works great for all the HD/UHD tracks, but I have to raise it to -14 , or even -10db with atmos to get the same listening volume. Not a big deal really, except that if you are listening to a playlist that has both UHD and atmos tracks in it.
Good video I have AppleTV didn't know they supported spatial audio. I'm just in the middle of setting up my home theater. My AVR has Chromecast built in. Would like to know and can hopefully test that spatial audio with RUclips Music via chromecast works.
Three things…
1. The Apple TV 4K (1st Gen) can play spatial audio from Apple Music too. I am using the 32 GB model.
2. There is another important setting to adjust on the Apple TV. Go to Apps > Music and set Dolby Atmos to Automatic.
3. The Porcupine Tree album is fantastic in Dolby Atmos. And it sounds even better on Blu-ray. I’m really looking forward to Steven Wilson’s upcoming album The Harmony Codex because it’s the first album he has written with Dolby Atmos in mind.
Tidal Atmos tracks works perfectly with Chromecast Google 4K TV and my Yamaha AVR shows "Atmos/DD+"
I have all the bells and whistles needed. JBL Synthesis processor, multiple subs, 4 in ceiling speakers, Apple TV gen 2 and subscriptions to all three music services you mentioned. I do have a question. Gene, is Atmos and spatial audio the same thing? I thought Sony has spatial for headphones? Anyway I’ve tried Atmos music but most of the mixes I heard sounded very artificial. I much prefer natural sounding mixes. Maybe I’ll try it again
A little FYI- After some research I decided to try the 2021 Roku Streaming Stick 4K ($25 on Amazon) for use on my Marantz SR7013, SVS 5.2.4 Dolby Atmos system as I prefer the Roku interface and remote to my Firestick 4K and they both now support Dolby Vision. The research part found that while only the Roku Ultra has native Dolby Atmos decoding on the device, almost all the new Rokus support Dolby Atmos passthrough as I confirmed on the Roku Netflix, Disney+, and Vudu apps, which all worked perfectly with all Atmos content with the stick plugged directly into an HDMI input on my Marantz AVR which has built-in Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D decoding. The main caveat is that Roku does not have the Amazon Music HD app, only the regular Amazon Music app, so no Amazon Music Atmos or Auro-3D support on Roku devices. For that, I still have to use the Firestick 4K. I have not tested the Tidal app to see if it properly passes through spacial audio.
👋🖐👋🖐 Read this if your a 5.1.2 person!
5.1.2 still gives you 3d sound it's just limited to the tent shape, of course 5.1.4 is a more clear, but if your surrounds are back a bit and your top middle height configuration is a little wide you can stretch out a good field that has a good cube shape within the tent. And then dts-X is superior at properly utilizing the shape compared to Atmos's more gnarly channel isolation. Most audio engines in games make sounds appear above the front channels if they are in the game space as well as the rears, when they pan through through the top middles there's usually good interpretation at play.
A big tip with this is to have your top middles speakers just ahead of the mlp as they are supposed to be but, out to the sides more in the upper corners of the room where the wall meets the ceiling pointing down inward 45 and pigeoned at the MLP, but sideways! having your tweeters toward the front of the room and woofers toward the back! With the help of the widened field, when a sound above comes from the front of the room over head to the back, the front channels simulate height sound it's with a higher frequency that smoothly blends into the tweeters in then backward through the woofers to the rear channels that use lower hollower frequencies when simulating height behind you as appose to the front. Picture a jet plane flying straight over you from the front, "shiiiiiiooOOOHHH" upper frontal sounds are often "hissss" like, while upper rear sounds are a more hollow, "hooow" like. -Polk OWM3'sare affordable and have a great shape for this! 👍
My main system is 7.2.4, I certainly know it's better but, I often can't tell if sounds are from the rear and surrounds, or the rear tops, and I've even thought the heights were on when they weren't with neural-X so, I think 5.1.2 is plenty great! 👍
-oh and thanks Gene!
(-edit: damn it, I did some spell checking and I lost my Audioholic heart! 😕)
Atmos music sounds incredible on a Sonos Arc + era 300 surrounds and sub. Ended up returning it for a 3k hifi stereo but I so miss the spatial audio. Listen to the Atmos version of Tom Petty “It’s good to be king” .. transformative audio experience!
There just weren’t quite enough Atmos albums I like yet compared to stereo..hopefully in a few years.
Gene I am with you, loving Spatial Audio, especially those classic's remastered. I have 2 Rooms setup to handle, Dolby Atmos, both with Yamaha Receivers. My Rx-v2079 has no issues works fine with Apple TV 4K Dolby Atmos. So I decided I would add an Apple TV 4K to my second setup with an older "4K" Rs-v2077 AVR - Dolby Atmos compatible (AU$2500 in 2015). (I particularly wanted to get Dolby Atmos from the Apple Music App). BUT No Go!! I found out after much frustration that many early “4K” receiver models can't handle the Dolby MAT format Apple decided to use as the Dolby Atmos Transport in lieu of Dolby TrueHD. The best I get is 7.1 PCM uncompressed audio by switching Dolby Atmos "Off" on Apple TV 4K. (With Dolby Atmos "On" I get zero sound}. The 7.1 PCM still sounds pretty good from any Atmos tracks on Apple Music. I pretty much cant listen to Stereo Music now, and always have the Yamaha's Dolby Surround Upmixer on for any 2 track music. Cheers!!
I use Apple 4 k for my streaming system and my amp is Anthem rx 740 and Paradigm speakers and 2 Martin login subs , I wish I would of bought the 1140 and I just did 2 in ceiling poke audio speakers and it sounds awesome 😎
Also, I would love to see a discussion of exactly what devices work with what services for Atmos music. Maybe bring on Don or the Audio Advice guys that have real world experience with setting systems up for customers. For instance, does Amazon do Atmos through an AVR directly, or an Nvidia Shield, or does in need to be a Fire TV? And what are the pros and cons to each solution like ease of use with navigating and browsing for music, can you use a phone or tablet to control it, does it have to be iPhone or Android?
Also, a separate, but related topic would be what is the best way to get hi-res lossless on Apple music through an AVR. Apple TV does not do it, only CD quality lossless.
We are all waiting for a Amazon fire device that will output Amazon HD Atmos native via HDMI.
Yeah, Gene is just plain wrong about Amazon being an option. At this point, there's no way to get Atmos out of their apps to play back on real hardware. (Plenty of tracks to choose from if you like the Dolby headphone effect, though!)
@@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside As of mid-February 2023, it is now available.
@@ctyragdoll Whoa, big news! Which devices???
@@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside All I know is that mine works (Firestick 4K). Now, when you enable the on screen device information, it shows "Dolby Atmos" instead of 24/196 as the device's highest resolution, and shows the same when playing atmos encoded music streams. There's also an 'enable spatial audio" option in the device settings. My firestick 4k is inserted directly into my RX-V6A.
Gene have you listened to Michael Jackson’s Thriller in Atmos yet? I was super impressed would love to hear your thoughts.
I just discovered its in Atmos from another viewer here. I will be checking it out and reporting back.
THANKS GENE 🤗 WE BOTH SHARE A TRUE LOVE 💗 WITH MUSIC 🎼👍💚💚💚
Thanks for the video just what I needed!
I was wondering what Subwoofer would he best for both theater and music.
Should I go for a pair of SVS SB 1000 pro or a pair of Rel HT1250 MK2?
I love Bluetooth control you get with SVS Pro subwoofers.
I've been trying out Amazon music HD. so far I'm impressed. I've ran it thru heos, casted from my phone, used the app on my laptop connected to avr, , and thru my tv app EARC back to my denon x3700h. Im not sure what quality I'm getting all the different ways.
haven't searched and not found a song yet, and see up to 192khz 24 bit. selection seems limitless so far.
Hi Gene, thanks for this summary - I think there is still one issue - I just wrote a mail to Tidal: Tidal connect is not supported for the Tidal app running on Apple TV or Fire TV. As a consequence, you need to have your projector running just to browse and select music - what a waste of energy and lamp/laser live. I want to have remote control via smartphone or tablet (Android preferred). I guess same situation with Apple Music? Are there any options I am missing? If not please help to get Tidal to support Tidal Connect on Apple TV / Fire TV.
Gene, thanks for your content. I haven't noticed you talk about the encoding that all the streamers use. I believe that Atmos streaming (movies or music) isn't encoded in D.TrueHD yet (lossless). It's all in DD+ (lossy). Right?
Also note that so far, the Amazon Music app on the FireStick 4K (plugged into an Atmos capable AVR) doesn't support Atmos. They're working on it.
Yes, sadly no streaming platform supports TrueHD yet.
Adding detail to my FireStick experience: The A.Music app (on the FireStick) shows that the track is UltraHD, not Atmos (where the same song from the app on my phone shows Atmos), and it shows that it's playing at 24 bit, 96 KHz (and FLAC). And pressing "Info" on the Denon remote shows that's it's receiving only two channels active (stereo). BUT, it also shows that it's receiving DD+ from the source (FireStick)... and it shows that it's outputting to all of my speakers (5.1.2), which it is. It actually sounds pretty good, but I'm sure it's using it's own algorithm to simulate surround from the stereo input (because the sound mode is DD/Atmos). I know this because when I listen to the Porcupine Tree BluRay Atmos disc, it's a very noticeably different mix. The BR has much more defined locations for the various sounds, and the clarity of those sounds is much better. I tried the Denon Center Spread option which helped in some ways, and hurt in others (less center channel focus for main vocals, but even more muddiness). By the way, that particular album (P.T./C.C.) on A.MusicHD actually shows as "360 Reality Audio" when played on my phone (to headphones) instead of Atmos like some other albums. But I would think that mix should be very similar if not identical to the Atmos one.
I love spatial audio and as Gene said, the Abbey Road mix on Apple music is wonderful. BUT, they have chosen to release each song as a standalone, with a gap between each. That leaves side 2 as a disjointed mess of broken up tracks. I'm confident that's not as George Martin, The Beatles, or God himself intended it to be.
Is Atmos even available on actual Atmos systems in Amazon music, or only in 2 channel devices? (Phones)
been using atmos sonos full surround for about a yr and atmos for headphones both upmix and real atmos thru headphones for a few weeks also atmos 7.1 pcm upmix real atmos via spekers and headphones is amazing
Hi Gene I am using Comcast to connect it all up with the Internet. I love your videos on home audio equipment some of it I can't afford be lovely if money was no object but thanks for the videos.
I am watching your shows from Ontario Canada just outside Toronto we love your shows Thanks Gene 😊
Hi Gene, thanks for the Video. Well done. I've set-up our Games Room for Atmos (5.2.2 currently but with wired and speakers for 7.2.2, but I don't think it's a large enough room to benefit from the extra rears. I do have an extra amplifier, so I may try it anyway.) I've really only been satisfied with the audio if the source material is a Disk (4K or regular Blue Ray usually), and not all of those make the grade either. Does any of those streaming options meet (or exceed?) that standard yet?
Thank you Gene for introducing me to Dolby surround sound two years ago when I was looking to upgrade my system. Now that I have it I can’t go back. I have been thinking about streaming music through my system and after this video you talked me into it! Just one question I have heard that there are headphones that support Dolby atoms. Is this true? If it is do you or anybody on here recommend a pair a brand to go with. Thank you for everything and keep up the great work.
Dolby Atmos headphone doesn't sound very good. I don't recommend it.
Thank you very much for your answer. I’ll do my homework on what to get. Do you have any videos on headphone or anybody you recommend to watch to get ideas?
Thank you for making this video Gene. I have a question for you. As I’m sure you know. AVRs from Denon and Marantz don’t require external streaming devices such as an Apple TV, because they have major audio services such as Tidal and Amazon music built in. I stream this way using the HEOS app. However, I cannot seem to figure out if I can listen to spatial audio this way. My main source is Amazon music. When I open the Amazon Music app on my phone, there are many tracks listed as “Atmos“. However, when I open the HEOS app to stream music directly from my receiver, there are no labels indicating spatial audio or Atmos. I was just wondering if you have any information on whether using the internal “HEOS” software on my Marantz receiver will allow me to listen to spatial audio. Thanks again for an excellent and informative video.
No AVR supports Spatial Audio. You need a separate streaming device like I mentioned in the video.
@@Audioholics Understood, thank for replying!
I have a Denon AVR, and also noticed the HEOS doesn't support Spatial/Atmos (which I expected cuz I read that). I bought a FireStick (the latest wifi6 version) which claims to support Atmos. Using the Amazon Music app (on the FireStick plugged into the Denon), when I open a track on my AM HD account that I know is Atmos capable (cuz it shows and plays that way on my phone), the Atmos icon doesn't appear. When I play it, sure enough Denon says it's receiving stereo. If I try to select Atmos mode on the AVR for that source, it shows up, which means it recognizes the source is capable of it, but it doesn't work (it plays as stereo). It does automatically upmix to surround (by default), so if you don't pay attention to the actual input details, you may not even notice it's not working. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with Amazon tech support. At first they said it should work. After going through all the details of my setup, they finally admitted that it didn't. I'm sure they'll eventually get it to work. But as of 1.5 weeks ago, it doesn't. They're supposed to contact me once they come up with a time line to fix. I'm not holding my breath. In the mean time, I'm enjoying the few Blu-ray atmos audio discs I have. I've enjoyed Amazon Music HD for about 2 years now with no problems - the HD is great and the cost for my whole family account is very reasonable, so I don't want to switch to Apple (I used to have Tidal). Amazon is a better deal.
Of course, my FireStick does support Atmos with video content (Netflix...). Which is Dolby Digital + encoded (like the music will be). Not telling how long before they allow lossless Atmos audio (via Dolby TrueHD encoding).
Gene, are you really sure that John claimed a 5/7.1.2 speaker layout will not have 3D objects rendered dynamically? I think what he said is that up to this layout all speakers can still be addressed by static bed channels (even though the 2 height channels are Atmos objects but with fixed coordinates), beginning with 4 heights this is no more the case so these additional speakers have no dedicated channel bed associated leaving it up to the renderer to map objects to it dynamically. However, I still believe that the renderer tries to map objects with arbitrary 3D coordinates as best as possible to the speakers available even in a 5/7.1.2 setup. I think John's point was just that there is not much benefit as you could just pre-render to the fixed bed channels instead. Does it make sense?
Yes you still get static objects with 2 heights with left and right independence but they won't move from front to back.
Hi. Gene. I have a 7.1.4. Mostly tested in Amazonnprime atmos movies. Or Netflix.
I subscribe to Apple Music. But in music listening thru my atmos Marantz receiver I see only two channel input with. multi channel deciding. My streaming is thru ny I phone 12. Which displays atmos and spatial audio.
My Apple TV is not new 4K. generation
Thanks for the video, but how do connect, these devices?, Apple/fire. to an AVR , all have probems, apple seem not able to output hi res, amazon refuses to output hi res to my Denon(A4700h), , streamers dont output DA, but can do the Hi Res, seem s to me you have to use two different systems to get one or the other, Note on Qobuz, Do they have an app for apple tv 4K or Firestick ?. so I don't think they are going over to DA , they have just anounce 360 as their new thing listen with headphones, But keep up the good work, and please enlighten me where i'm going wrong
Hdmi connection between AppleTV and your AVR. Apple 2CH music is lossless.
What about speakers in atmos ? What do you think ? Because they are different in atmos like ceiling speakers etc.
My spatial audio gear are my iPhone and AirPods Pro 😊
I am streaming spatial audio from Amazon HD via a BlueSound Node and love it! Originally, I only liked those tracks that were recorded in Dolby Atmos, but after some tighter time alignment with my surrounds, even 2-channel recordings sound better upmixed in Dolby. The newer music really takes advantage of the entire sound bubble though.
I was not aware that the Node could do Atmos/Spatial/Surround or any multichannel music from any streaming service. Just stereo.
@@steveloch3875 Agreed can we confirm you are not just hearing dynamic matrix on the node?
@@steveloch3875 Apparently you are correct, and what I am actually listening to is an upmixed (Dobly) PCM signal as the BlueSound website shows that only certain soundbars and PowerNodes support Dolby at this time. It still sounds very good though (better than 2-channel.....oh no, the heresy!). I might have to try the Apple TV also and see if there is a noticeable difference.
Gene, can you please address Apple Music's Spatial Audio/Atmos playback issue of not supporting gapless playback through AppleTV? I have the two latest AppleTVs (2021 and 2022 versions) with 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 connections to a Denon 4400h and 4500h and neither setup plays back gapless tracks properly. The easiest test for this is the second side of The Beatles Abbey Road, where songs blend into each other. So Mean Mr. Mustard blends into Polythene Pam into She Came In Through The Bathroom window. Playing it on the Blu-Ray Atmos release disc, all songs blend properly. But on Apple Music, gaps of silence/dropouts happen between each track, ruining the experience. I hope if you are able to recreate this, you and Audioholics can raise the profile of this issue and force Apple to remedy it.
Thank you for another very helpful video. Couple questions come to mind. Is the spatial audio clearly better than an upmix with neural :X? I could guess the answer but wonder if some listening data exists. Opinions welcome too. Another question regarding how to stream spatial audio. I do have an Apple TV but my Anthem AVR does support streaming as well. Which is the way to go?
It really depends. When Spatial audio is properly mixed with object panning, it's far superior to upmixing 2CH. When it's fake Spatial Audio like much of the older stuff, I'd rather listen to 2CH upmixed with the DSU or Auromatic IF it's a music source that doesn't have a lot of decorrelated info in the mix.
Thank you.
I do have two Apple TV 4ks also but I'm running 5.2.2 it sucks because I'm wanting to go up to a 5.2.4 since now that I know that 4 height channels are just as important in the home theatre industry. My next avr I'm going to upgrade to is the onkyo RZ 50 since I have a 7.2 Tx model onkyo
I really wish Spotify would get into Atmos music, I hate having to subscribe to multiple music streaming apps.
I think they're waiting for what Google do with Google Caviar which is said to be taking on Dolby Vision & Dolby Atmos as a free/open licence. If Google get it right, everything will probably support Google Caviar because it won't cost streaming services, application developers or hardware manufacturers anything to implement. Everyone is waiting for Goolge, they are the biggest player in music and video streaming playback by billions of users compared to even Spotify & Netflix who are the biggest subscription-only services.
Just listened to Porcupine Tree (Dignity). Sound is kind of like the later Beatle songs only better. I really wasn't much of a fan when the started their later mixes. I liked when they first started better. I will have to listen to more of porcupine tree though and see if the other recordings are as good as Dignity. Thanks for the info.
The whole new album from Porcupine Tree is a musical masterpiece that grows on you upon more listening. Gavin Harrison's drumming is sublime.
Love Apple for my 7.1.4.
I've commented here about my disappointment with Amazon Music Atmos offering (only allowed on VERY few specific devices, not even there own FireSticks). So I'm considering switching to Tidal or Apple. Tidal HIFI Plus (needed for Atmos) family plan is 300/yr! I'm currently paying 160/yr for Amazon HD family (already a prime member). The Apple plan is much more competitive (I think 170/yr for annual payments), but 90% of my listening is in my music room (treated bedroom) on one of my many windows pcs (external DAC to Focal studio monitors), and I really don't like iTunes. I guess I could use a browser, but that's probably even worse? My HT setup is in the basement (AVR/FireStick/BluRay). I have a general dislike for Apple products that stems back to my engineering days where all of our tools/apps ran on PCs not Macs (usually, the apps weren't even available for Apple stuff). Sometimes the target device was an Apple product, which was always more of a pain than android. And Apple has ticked me off over the years because of their semi-closed ecosystem. If you go all in, and get everything from them, it's fine. No thanks. So I'm torn. I guess I'll give Amazon a few months to get their act together (until my subscription renewal date). If they're still dragging their feet, I'll try out Apple Music. Supposedly, it will work on my FireStick and Android phones. If I have to buy an Apple TV box, no biggy.
By the way, even though Amazon Music (Unlimited) costs less than Apple and Tidal, it gives 1.66x more to the artists than Apple, and 1.3x more than Tidal.
Fleetwood Mac - Dreams (Atmos) sounds soooooo good
Damn, you're making me jealous
Hi
Hope you get this as it was a little while ago. I am in the process of setting up my first home theatre. I want it for spacial audio as well as movies. So I have apple music subscription and apple tv 3rd gen so all good there. I have the new Sony TA AN 1000 which is 7 ch so 2 atmos. We can only get the sony 7 channel in UK. I went sony as I have the Bravia TV and the rear of the room speaker placement wont be optimal as surrounds would be in ceiling or back wall and not on side wall as not easily possible. 2 Atmos and front LCR will be located in wall correctly. The 360 mapping should help adjust this is my theory. So my question is will the spacial audio still work on 7 channel system being aware of your comments on lack of panning. I could return AVR and go 9 channel but would have to be other brand and not sure how they work with my intended setup.
Thanks in advance
Thank you Gene for the video. I always wanted to get into immersive music. I tried 5-ch SACD and DVD-audio before, a few of them are good, some sounds artificial, and there are not many albums available in surround to try anyway, so I stopped. How is the Atoms music compared to SACD/DVD-audio surround sound? Which in-ceiling speakers would you recommend for this purpose? It seems Klipsch has a series of inexpensive 8-inch in-ceiling on sale, from $80 a pair to $200 each.
There's a quite a few Dolby Atmos albums on blu ray disc now. Go online and find one you like the look of, give it a try.
Usually there's a stereo, 5.1, Atmos mixes on the disc. So you can easily compare them 🎶
Thanks, Gene, for this information. My concern is how nice the streaming app is. I’ve used and found Apple Music’s app/interface ok, Amazon is not the greatest, and RUclips Music, my current main streaming provider, has a decent app layout. Which do you prefer? Could you make a video showcasing the different services app? Rate it in ease of use, display, functionality, etc. I want to utilize something like Amazon HD or Tidal to get HD streaming and possibly the spatial audio you speak of. I feel this type of review may help others, too. Thx!!
I tried Atmos over RUclips and the sound quality was not good. Definitely stick to Tidal, Amazon or Apple Music for Spatial Audio.
RUclips is actually pretty bad when it comes to spatial audio --- they just don't seem to get it
It's worth pointing out the Shield Pro is the only streamer out of all of them that'll output real TrueHD Atmos from Plex. Apple TV is lossy. So for the best of both worlds the Shield Pro seems better.
So what streaming service do you use? From what I've gathered the shield tv platform does not play well with Apple Music. If you are going to rip music, sure this setup is best. But if you are streaming, I'm not convinced.
AFAIK no streaming service supports lossless so the hardware isn't the problem.
Love spatial audio🤯
I’ve been using Roku Ultra for accessing atmos movies and music (Amazon hd). Contrary to what you said about Roku not supporting spatial music, I get atmos movies and music from numerous streaming channels . My HTP-1 indicates it’s processing atmos programming and I can hear spatial content from my 7.2.4 layout. Am I missing something?
Roku supports Atmos for streaking video content like Netflix Amazon Prime, etc but AFAIK it does NOT support Spatial Audio music streaming at least for Apple Music and Tidal.
Roku definitely does not support Amazon music HD or spatial audio. It doesn't even support 16/44.1 on Amazon music.
Legit question. Not trying to be snarky
I’m confused.
How is spatial audio mixed?
When you hear a band unless there are sound effects , the band is in front of you.
Or an orchestra . The orchestra is in front of you.
So what are the speakers behind you playing?
Or the top ones? ( maybe the top are playing ambience ?)
I can totally see how a center speaker would help .
Appreciate your response in advance.
It depends on the artist. Porcupine Tree uses the surrounds to expand the front Soundstage. The Weeknd does true object panning around the room to make you feel surround all around and above you. Some artists use it to enhance the listening space to give you a sense of venue, others use it for effects to enhance the music experience.
@@Audioholics ah ok.
So it would in most instances be for ambience.
Or whatever else the artist might want to add as a form of creativity.
The ambience of a venue or room would be pretty cool.
Would you need to get all speakers from the same source though? To keep freq and sound sig consistent ?
I listen to mostly studio produced music and "digital age" music to a varying degree of crazy (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers to Igorrr and Infected Mushrooms) and good music 2ch upmix brings alot of entertainment as you are transported "into" the band playing. You can (depending on brand of processor) choose to just scoot 6 ft closer or get enveloped in a partially headphone experience. Almost all music modes I use will still have a solid front stage and then the DSP algorithms select minor audio material that may be out of phase and move those closer, right into your head, Yes, its like the some music noises manifest inside your head akin to headphones. I have not a bloody clue how the processor can sort out echo noises and move those more towards rear... but it can, unreal but oh so entertaining. Like Gene said, these are not gimmicky "church", "Hall" or "Stadium" echo effects, no no, it sort of preserves the music energy but distributes it closer more immersive. Now, I can only really talk about my experience with my 25 year old Meridian processor, but hopefully modern DSPs are atleast as good. From what I understand the selection of 2ch upmix DSP options seem slim compared to what I have at my fingertips: Music, Music Logic, Super stereo, Ambisonic, Trifield + a few options for even mono material. These 5 different modes all have their respective uses, i.e. some are more suited classic orchestra, some do best with studio produced material and some perform best with live band recordings.
Yes, I'm really enjoying exploring Apple Music and AmazonHD spatial audio offerings in my 7.2.4 dedicated theater. Thanks for pointing me to spatial audio in your earlier videos. In general, however, I find that it is acoustic music such as jazz, instrumental and particularly classical that really benefits the most. Check out Anne Queffelec Beethoven's Last 3 Piano sonatas, Leif Ove Andsnes Dvorak Tone Poems to see what Atmos does for a solo piano, for example. The sound quality, even through the limited resolution AppleTV, is quite frankly outstanding on a notoriously difficult instrument to reproduce. The Atmos mixes add a great deal to the "you are there" experience. While not my cup of tea for material, Lang Lang's Disney Book has terrific realism in Atmos. Two others to check out, John Williams Violin Concerto #2 with Anne Sophie Mutter- fantastic in Atmos with some real bass and dynamics at times. And, lastly, Esther Abrami's newest eponymous hauntingly beautiful and refreshing release is gorgeous in Atmos. The eighth track on that album, a Mozart variation has a low bass subwoofer underpinning at times that is simply awesome. I listened to the 2 channel mix and, while it is there, you probably wouldn't notice much if at all. It doesn't sound like the bass in the Atmos is too hot though, thankfully. It's not the kind of music that you typically get any sub action from though.
I'm not nearly as impressed with studio music, such as rock and pop, etc. in Atmos. I find it thins things out sonically and doesn't add to the musical experience in general. At most it fills sonic space, but at the cost of sounding real or musical. It usually just sounds like they are trying to create an acoustic space that was never there to begin with. Not all of that genre sounds bad of course. Evanesence's The Bitter Truth is one of the better sounding releases in my opinion. The new Disturbed album isn't as good in Atmos. Just my 0.02.
One thing that I've not heard mentioned is regarding LCR placement and spatial audio. I do notice when the tweeter of the center channel are not in horizontal alignment with the fronts (i.e. under the screen or TV rather than behind) it really negatively impacts the sound stage. In my theater with an AT screen, it's awesome. In my system where the center channel is below my screen, it's obvious and a bit odd. You need that visual cue for the brain to ignore the height discrepancy to some extent and you don't get that with just music.
Thx Gene.
Hi Gene (and everyone else). I have a full Atmos setup Yamaha Aventage 3050/Epson projector and Apple TV 4k and an Apple SE phone. Is it possible to listen to music from the Apple TV 4k without my projector on? Every time I turn the projector off it seems to cease audio playback. I don't really need a projector on when all I'm doing is listening to lovely Atmos. Thanks in advance for any tips. N
Watched your archived videos and links regarding HT formats and Dolby surround up mixing…what happens Ed to your skepticism of the bouncy bouncy technology?????
Is there a way to objectively measure how precise a system is at rendering audio positionally (x,y,z) in a given room with a given speaker layout? For instance, say X audio object should be located at (x,y,z) but it is registering (via the measurement instrument) as (x1,y1,z1)? Given that ability, one could objectively seek to improve their system. And interesting questions could be asked and objectively answered. How well can the system resolve near sounds versus mid or far sounds? How well does the system track horizontal versus vertical movements? How well does one format compare to another given a layout? Etc.
You can't really compare formats/layout without a "rosetta stone," of which there is none. The closest we have are console games, which all work differently and aren't using the same delivery formats as movies and music. You can get an idea if your immersive setup works by testing in a game, but that won't necessarily tell you how well your layout works in a movie.
Most films and almost all immersive music is now mixed and delivered in Atmos. The best way to get correct Atmos playback is to follow the Dolby spec with your speaker positions. If you install your speakers in correct relative positions, the sound field from your main listening position will be as close as you can get to what the mix engineer heard. It would be nice to get a tighter spec rather than a range, but a 10-degree variability is pretty close for most of us with our seating arrangements anyhow.
Yes... It's possible to test DTS:X on Dolby layouts and Dolby on Auro:3D layouts, but the results will be meaningless. Maybe you could probably find one movie that has a "benchmark" set of atmospheric effects and was released in multiple formats, then compare how those effects sound on the different layouts/decode engines... but liking a particular effect is no guarantee that you're hearing what the mix engineer wanted you to hear.
@@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside Thanks for the detailed reply! I appreciate it! :) I was wondering if there was a potential way to come up with an objective Rosetta Stone. Perhaps we are still a ways from getting to one yet. :)
I have really gone down the rabbit hole on this and been reading and watching some really interesting information. The two videos that Audioholics did with Edgar Choueiri were extremely interesting on this topic (improved realism of audio for music, VR, and for me: games, and movies); I recommend those videos. :)
I started down the rabbit hole because I had heard some mention that surround formats (including Dolby Atmos) have a problem rending distance proximity with the listening position and especially close to the listening position. This went against the way I understood Atmos or Auro (as being 3d sound with objects moving and positioned in 3d space).
The ability to render directionality is good, but the proximity of objects (near, mid, far) can't be rendered very accurately. And sounds tend to be located on the periphery of a sphere and correlate stronger with the speaker locations (from what I have heard; I am new to this). This is unfortunate as sounds that we perceive near to us can have dramatic impact.
I am looking toward what the future might be and I consider surround formats to be in roughly the same general category (though as you pointed out Atmos is dominant).
If we had a way to measure the rough ability of the surround formats to resolve objects in actual 3d space, we would be able to tell when those formats (like Dolby Atmos) improved and especially as regards other spatial audio techniques (beyond the surround formats).
Binaural audio over speakers with a flat crosstalk cancellation filter (it no longer colors the audio like it did in the past), does a much better job of resolving objects in 3d space (versus the surround formats), especially with headtracking and it gets even better with a personalized head related transfer function (HRTF) and this can potentially get even better with higher order ambisonics (HOA).
So, I was curious about what we could potentially measure. After reading some on it and seeing some of the work that others have done (search youtube for "Sound Camera Presentation john duffy" for instance) I had a potential idea (again keep in mind that I am new to this stuff).
If one limited to a known simple audio object and say given a 1000 cubic foot room, using an 8 cubic foot block (2' by 2' by 2') resolution in space, and a known location of a microphone array like Duffy's, if you could figure out what that sound source should look like on that microphone array when that audio object was in all of the possible cubes (125 cubes). And then compare that to what the microphone array actually picks up for each of those locations. The spatial audio system would playback each of those 125 positions and they would be recorded and/or visualized with the microphone array.
Another very interesting read for me: If interested, search on google for "Psychoacoustic Principle, Methods, and Problems with Perceived Distance Control in Spatial Audio".
The surround formats don't do a very good job of preserving some of the proximal (whether an object is near or far in space) cues whereas binaural and ambisonics maintain them.
Anyway, such fun stuff to learn about and to research. And I love listening to Atmos music. :)
Adding resources as I find them:
Another cool and related youtube video to search for: "The effects of early reflections on proximity, localization, and loudness"
Hi Gene thanks for info. I have found that the Amazon music claims to be Dolby Atmos but my processor is recieving just a left and right stereo signal. When I stream an Atmos move the signal is much different. So far I think that Amazons claim their streaming music in Dolby of any form is really not true.
What do you think of Steven Wilson's Harmony Codex?? From what I understand it was made for spacial from thr beginning!!
Yep, love it, and I was so glad I introduced him to the Atmos format 9 years ago, which he has fully embraced since.
Still can't get Atmos on Amazon Music HD through a firestick 4K directly plugged into the AVR. Maybe someday it will work. Not in any hurry, I'm happy with the 24/192 stereo capabilities.
I do not think it is possible to get Dolby Atmos to an AVR With Amazon HD and Firestick 4k. Can you get Dolby Atmos from Amazon HD and an Apple TV?
@@carterhopkins923 Correct. I have that setup (Amazon HD and Firestick 4K). No Atmos yet.
@@GG-hi7ei Three months later than my initial comment now, and they've finally implemented it.
I've got an Onkyo (tx-rz820 ) that supports Airplay, and Nvidia Shield Pro. However, when I airplay spatial audio (Apple Music App) to my Onkyo it doesn't seem to take spatial (shows up as 2 channel) and the Shield won't accept Airplay, period. Is there any way to do this with my equipment?
I love the Atmos mixes of the Taylor Swift albums.
I just wish she would release her albums on Blu-ray with Dolby Atmos TrueHD audio.
What about the internal apps in the receivers, like Marantz / HEOS is that supporting atmos music?
My space makes 7 channel bed layer pretty difficult. What are your thoughts on 5.2.6?
awesome!
Just found this after commenting on other video Gene. Be home later on so will check it out..tbh i treid amazon hd and it wasnt hd so unsubscribed.. But maybe i did not have it set up correctly within the app.. Atm i only got the 2 atmos. Currently looking at 9.2 so i cant get the 4.
P.s if i recall when i was trying out amazon music hd i was doing it through a web page on my windows pc. My pc is connected to avr via hdmi..but maybe thats why i wasnt getting hd audio maybe it has to be done via the cube on amazon music app etc.
I’ve checked my AppleTV and done some online research, and as far as I can tell, the Amazon music app on Apple TV does not yet support spatial audio/Dolby Atmos. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this.
Hi, is it possible to get Atmos from Amazon Music with an Apple TV 4k? As far as I know, you get Atmos from Amazon Music only with their own speakers...at least here in Germany. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe its a copyright thing? Can someone clarify that? Would be interesting to know, if that's a regional thing... Thanks ;)
I am not finding much evidence that Amazon Music app on Apple TV works with AVR's in the US at this time for spatial audio/Atmos. Perhaps with headphones or some of their devices. I did a quick "chat" with amazon music support before work and it is "supported" but can find little evidence in the wild it will work as we want with AVR's. I hope I am wrong and would be thrilled to be so.
@@michaelgordon6071 Quote from the original Amazon music Dolby page...
What happens if my device does not support Dolby Atmos?
The Amazon Music application will enable a Dolby Atmos music experience on all mobile devices compatible with the app. Amazon has enabled application-level decoding and rendering of Dolby Atmos Music for headphone playback.
So it looks like, no Atmos for AVR Users...🙄😮💨🤷
Yes, I strongly believe that to be correct. I did a quick online chat with them and called- headphones and select devices support spatial audio but not through AVR’s. They do make it difficult to suss that out. I see that has been confirmed by someone posting in this thread. I will not bother to try. Gene liked Apple Music so may go with that.
I can verify that Amazon Music on Apple TV 4K will not output Atmos while directly connected to my 4K Atmos capable AVR.
Spatial music is as good as… the mix. Same with Atmos for movies. I have same base speakers all around for ideal cohesion but there is tone of Atmos music which is just bad. There are few mixes which are really well made but seems this is quite often worse than in case of Atmos for movies - when stereo imaging is softened, detail lost but doesn’t bring any cool spatial effects. I wish they came up with a way to record music for each channel individually to replicate sitting in front of the artist
Hi Gene, Maybe there is something I'm doing wrong. When I'm playing music in surround, I do gain amazing "immersion" sound, but everytime, I'm also loosing something. Sound imaging is expending for some instruments, but it's like voices and drums now coming just from the center channel. The drum sound so setback. Then I've got this "Voices" enhance function that I can use. It will "extend" the voices and drums left and wright, but then it just doesn't sound right. What I'm I doing wrong ?
If you're upmixing 2CH content with the DSU, enable "center spread". If you're listening to native multichannel music, maybe your calibration needs to be checked.
would this work with an Atmos soundbar instead of AV receiver?
Not unless you use an external streaming device that supports Spatial Audio.
@@Audioholics Thank you.
One question. I saw the atmos diagram. Of speakers. The atmos speakers on ceiling one pair should be exactly on top of your listening position Ie on top of your head. The other two ceiling to be. In the centre of front speakers and rear atmos. Currently my atmos are not on top of my head. But in either side on ceiling Also the same wattage should be applied to power these speakers. ? As that of main LCR. Let me have your email I will send picture of atmos in my set up for you to suggest it’s placement is correct or not. Thx. A lot. Regds. Ravi.
Listen to this @Audioholics. I made a comment on TechnoDads RUclips channel concerning the 2 height speakers in an Atmos setup not being object based. This is the very long and technical response I got from another viewer: "In reality everything is an object in Dolby Atmos, it's just beds in terms of DAPS/DAMS are rendered as static objects without panning metadata, whereas full objects are dynamic and so do have it. For consumer playback all 128 objects (includes the 10 bed objects) get spatially grouped into 16 elements. ie 16 clusters of objects that are closest to each other in order to squeeze all this into the low bit-rate delivery (TrueHD is still clustered too, just not limited by bit-rate restrictions online). This all then gets printed to 5.1 or 7.1 pcm audio channels and the Atmos object panning data interleaved is used to decode the objects in those 16 groups back out to your speakers. So 7.1.2, 5.1.2 are all perfectly capable of accurately delivering objects, it's just that the .2 will not be capable of moving sound at a high resolution above you. ie only left to right above you, not front to back or diagonally."
Yes agreed and I basically said that you can't get height object panning front to back without 4 height speakers.
I would agree It is not accurate to say that you won't hear objects (or object panning) without minimum of 4 height speakers. One of the major selling points of Atmos is that 1 mix that can be downmixed and sound as good as possible on whatever speaker count the consumer has. My guess is ....the confusion came from the explanation of the limits of "beds" when mixing. Any elements assigned to bed tracks during the mix process are limited to 7.1.2..all that means is the panning resolution of those elements won't take advantage of more than 7.1.2 (there are no rules for what mixers determine should be beds vs objects, but mixers tend to put things that don't move around as much on beds). Any element that was assigned to an object will still come through your 5.1/7.1.2 etc.. system and end up in the appropriate speakers. Obviously you won't hear a movement the mixer made between speakers you don't have..but you will still hear that movement translated to the speakers you do have
@Paul Perret you absolutely cannot have front to rear object panning without 4 height channels. John made this very clear that he ALWAYS recommends 4 heights for Atmos.
Why isn't Amazon adding Dolby Atmos music to it's app on Fire TV devices like the Cube I have? I don't want that crap for headphones, I want it full on my home theater!
Exactly makes no sense it’s not available for actual atmos theater setups
Absolutely. Doesn't work on my FireStick either (stereo only). Why would you want it on headphones! By the way, they claim it DOES work on the FireStick, but it doesn't yet (their tech support admitted it to me).
@@GG-hi7ei woah so Amazon says it works but not yet? So Atmos music is coming to Amazon music on Amazon devices?
@@Ctripp2448 especially since Apple music and Tidal music have had it for a long time now. I LOVE Amazon music, sound quality is fantastic but they need to add Atmos music to devices for Home theater.
@@JC-bl9bo Correct. They should have it fairly soon. I commented with more detail above. Atmos is cool. I like it, but remember even when they do have it, it will be like all the other streamers (Apple/Tidal), over DD+ not D.TrueHD. In other words, not lossless. If you want lossless, it's only stereo for now (via streaming).
Cool t-shirt :)