Ep 49. Home Theater Dolby ATMOS Angles. Easily place Atmos speakers!! Home Theater Gurus.
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- Placement Diagram Studio like Recommended Dolby Atmos angles. 4 to 6 Atmos layout. Home Theater Gurus Recommended Tolerances. Place your Dolby Atmos Speakers Perfectly! and hear what was mixed!
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This channel is what fueled my fire for home theater. And now building a house with a dedicated theater. Thanks for making me poor but also thank you for helping me find something I love
Awesome!!! I love new theater builds. If you need help in the design let me know. I can also save you $$ on the equipment end as well. DIY acoustic panel plans, tips and tricks etc.
"Don't cater to an an already compromised seat", that is fantastic advice! This content is priceless man! Really appreciate your channel 🙏
Thanks Seth! Yeah I should claim that phrase..haha
Just wanted to say thanks. This has transformed my experience. Completely different.
Great to hear someone actually referencing STUDIO setups.
Yeah it's kinda crazy that for a decade that we've had Atmos, the studio still gets ignored. It's quite important to know how our rooms compare.
You really are the best. Thanks for all your videos
I'm building my theater next week and going to use this method after weeks of research. I hope it works out.
Steve, This info is EXACTLY what I have been saying for as long as I've been dealing with Dolby's layout discrepancy. The HT layout must be as close to the studio in which the engineer mixed the content in order to hear the same thing the engineer did. Period - no argument! I hope everyone follows you and this info. Then I hope all of us give Dolby enough grief to straighten out their act. Dolby is RESPONCIBLE for all of the arguments between the folks in the HT hobby.
I can't disagree with that!
Whats odd is some think we don't know how the studios lay out, but we do. They have a very strict performance based pdf, we just need to open our eyes which will make our ears happy.
We can't have a setup vastly different than the studio and expect to hear what's intended.
@@hometheatergurus Steve, To me, it's no different than looking at a painting. If you are not standing in front of the original you are not seeing the original. Our speaker layout most look like the original to hear the original. I don't know why anyone has an argument with that. Even our friend in the field Techno Dad has his own views on speaker placement just because he has "mixing" software. I wonder if he has ever spent any time with an Atmos certified audio engineer on a job. However, I wish I had the $150 to buy his Atmos testing disk to test his work. I hope it is proper and wish him well.
Thanks again for ALL of your effort and I, Steve, I wish you and yours all of the very best, Kevin
@@welderfixer Gene (audioholics) recently had a dolby atmos mixing engineer on his channel. It was a great look into the mixing world and of course they discussed placement. In the end performance is what matters and we've not had a single person come from heights or poorly placed tops to a properly setup atmos system and not be very impressed to the point most felt they never truly even really heard atmos prior.
@@hometheatergurus 100% agree on the performance of anything. So few people have had heard a great sounding system of any kind. So, I feel if someone is very happy with their soundbar - so be it. Can't convince them otherwise until they are ready. I'm having a hard time getting friends to come over to sample my simple systems. Oh well - more for me to enjoy all by myself... 😃
Great video. Thank you. I’ve got an especially complex installation going on and really needed to learn more of the technicalities of Atmos ceiling speakers, Feeling better about it now. 👍
Glad it helped
Their online instructions should be viewed as a general guideline, but even Dolby admits that their 'guideline' contradicts the ideal Atmos setup in many cases. Nice to see an explanation of some things here.
The best thing to do is buy angled or adjustable in-ceiling speakers and you don't really have to worry about it.
Yeah the guidelines are so vague you could have a great sounding system or a poor one and be in tolerance in both.
If the placement isn't right angled speakers can't fix it and will still be compromised. You need angled speakers placed properly.
Thanks for the great content!
Have a question on whether the MLP needs to be centered between top speakers vs maintaining separation.
When looking at the room from the side, and rears are raised 20deg, does that push both pairs of tops forward to maintain separation, resulting in MLP being closer to the rear tops?
Like (180 - 20) / 3 = 53deg between each speaker?
Or does the angle (or distance) from the midline need to match for rear and front tops?
Fantastic job! Thank you so much for opening my eyes about this!
Today, My7.2.4 system(5,70mx4,0mx2,7m room), With 4 bookshelfs (Polk S10) as overhead speakers, instaled horizontally (1,60m 45 drgree).
Following your recommendations, I will change to 1.12m / 55 degrees (Polks + bracket 30cm lower than the ceiling), but my doubts are:
Keep the Polks horizontal or would it be better to move them vertically?
Keeping it horizontal, is it better with the tweeters in or out?
Check. Now starting the search for a recommended living room... For those that have the space to implement this, it's exactly what you need to get started !
I have an important question for you and hope you can answer soon if possible.
I'm currently on a 5.1 setup and installing two in-ceiling Atmos speakers tomorrow (RSL C34E MKIl). There is a wall close behind the seating position so won’t ever update to any more Atmos in the future. I'm going to use the 55° angle you recommend. Since these speakers have a 15° angled baffle do I need to adjust the angle for this? Also, should I rotate the speakers so that they are aimed directly at the main listening position, or keep them aimed directly at the back wall? Thanks for any help.
Great informative video as always. Do the atmos angle recommendation in the video also work for dedicated rooms with low ceilings such as mine at 6-1/2 ft. Dolby Spec seem to suggest a minimum height of 7.4ft?
What would be useful for me is to have you show us an actual room with all these measurements. Literally pull out the tape measure and other tools and show us, "This is at 55 degrees," etc. And also show where the surround channels are placed in relation to the Atmos channels.
Yeah right!
So all I have to do is rent an excavator, demolish my home, and rebuild to Atmos spec. Everything is easy on paper! When really is taken into consideration, there are always compromises. None of these specification guru's ever address these issues. They assume that a majority of enthusiasts are working with ideal spaces, which is rarely the case.
@@qua7771 So what are you suggesting? That He shows you the wrong information? It is up to us to make the determination where to compromise from the optimal layout. Yes, each room is unique with it's own challenges, how could he possibly explain each set of variables and how to proceed from there? Use your best judgment. It's not that hard. Like I told my kids, "Do your best with what you have to work with". "It's not magic" .
Look up Pythagoras theorem and solve the distances yourself.
What would of been useful is if you paid attention in school on measurements and degrees
@@dunmer26 lol
With the 55 degree (from bed layer) Atmos positioning, in-ceiling speakers with a 30 degree angled baffle are on-axis for the MLP! (only 2-4 degrees off by my calculation) Thanks @hometheatergurus
Actually they are only on axis (5 degrees off axis actually) for a seat directly in line with them. So with the closer grouping the mlp is still off axis with a 30 degree speaker just much much closer for sure. You may be 40 degrees with opposite sests close to 50.
Speaker placement 5.2.2 system:
I follow Home theater Gurus and Techno Dad, love the effort and information regarding Atmos and speaker placement from both.
I had my Atmos speakers (SVS Prime Elevations ) mounted on my front wall ( as high as possible, 8 feet to ceiling ).
I then moved them to 50-50 dgr in front of MLP, mounted in the ceiling pointing at the MLP. All according to Home theater Gurus recomendations.
I have no clue what is right and wrong, but if you want the sound coming from above in a 5.2.2 setup the 50-55dgr is absolutely the right choice.
Just watched ” All quiet on the western front ”, and it has fantastic height channel sound.
I know 4 height speakers is the recommendation, but I just wanted to share my experience.
Right is whatever sounds best to you! That's why I use those angles in my designs. I want my rooms to sound fantastic!!!!
@Jarrod Kent When mounted on the wall using the brackets I think the SVS Prime Elevation speakers front baffle is angled 20 dgr, pointing downwards. Did not use toe in , mounted a bit closer together than the fronts. I checked a lot of pictures on the internet regarding placement when mounted on the frontwall. Did not use exakt numbers that time. When mounted on the ceiling at 50-55 dgr they are now placed with toe in pointing at the MLP. Still only the 20 dgr angled baffle, so it is not pointing exactly at MLP, but close enough I think. The difference is on the frontwall you get a good 3D sound but the sound never comes from above. You get both the 3D and the sound coming from above when mounted on the ceiling like I did.
@Jarrod Kent 45 degrees is almost never on a front wall unless it's a very very tall ceiling or you're sitting very very close to the front wall. Wall or ceiling however is irrelevant. It's angles so where the angle falls is where the speaker goes.
Thanks for the video man. Really appreciate it. Lot of useful information. I am planning to set up 6 Atmos speakers. So should I go with 45 degrees or 50 or 55, since as per your recommendations, 55 doesn't make any difference with/without Top Mid speakers?
Great videos. I find the knowledge shared in your channel one of the best sources for Home theatre anywhere . Great job! You have helped me so much!
I have a couple of questions : doesn’t Dolby studio recommends 30 to 55 degrees of the top front heights from the front LR?
Your 55 recommendation is based on your experience and feedback as the best?
For a 22 foot long room, in your experience would it be better to install 4 Atmos at 55 and 125 degrees (front to back) or add top middle and start at 45 (and then 90 for the middle and 135 for top rear)?
We covered the studio layout in ep 48. This is based on that and tons of feedback and testing. As for the top mid question it's covered in this video.
Angled firing surround to head or flat surrounds firing above your head? Is surrounds best of angled directly on axis to the MLP or better off with flat surrounds with a slight off axis directivity?
I have a 5.2.2 and I’m debating top placement should it be top front or top mid or top back I only have two speaker to place and it will be a while before I upgrade to .4 atmos? Any thoughts
Hi I wanted to start off and say thank you for all the great content that you put out. I've watched almost every one of them. With that said I'm having some difficulty in in ceiling speaker placements for a 17' (surround to surround baffle)W x 25' L x 8' high room. I already placed the speakers at 45 degrees which would be 5 ft in front of MLP and 10ft apart from each other. Can you please confirm that based on this video they should be placed 35 degrees which would be 3.5 ft (5ft * tan35 degrees) in front and 7 ft apart assuming no lighting or structural issues leaving a 70 degree field of sound to fill instead of a 90 degree. I just wanted to make sure I was doing my math correct, lol!
I know I'm very late to this video. I'm working with 9 foot ceilings, so about 6 feet from ear to ceiling. It looks like 55 degrees would be a 4.5 foot distance. My question is I'm planning on using 4 x RSL C34E MKII. They have a 15 degree angled baffle. The tweeter can also do another 15 degrees. I'm concerned with these sounding good at 55 degrees and not having some of the pitfalls you have explained in your Atmos videos since I can't get them pointed directly at the MLP. Since I'm cutting holes in the ceiling I want to make sure I get this right. Thanks again for the videos, they have been very helpful.
Hi love your videos. Would love a video on placement for people who can't have optimal couch placement. Like having their seated listening position up against back wall or maybe a foot off the back wall. What is the best way to set up Atmos? Should you use 4 speakers or just 2? If you do 4 soeakers and your rear Atmos can be 10 degrees behind seated listening position should you keep separation at 70 degrees between front and rear Atmos or something different? Thanks!
Hey Luke, Thanks! We did cover some of that in some Q/A a while back.
Great content as usual! Love the new intro! Thanks for breaking these important details down
Thanks Angus!!
Love this!! I have watched so many of your videos now. I do have a question. With sloped ceilings, how should I adjust my width? For example, If I'm centered below the peak height of the ceiling, which is 10'6, it's easy to find how far in front and back the atmos should be (roughly 5ish feet ahead of me at my seating height for 55 degrees). But as I move them left and right, they actually get lower and lower into the room (ceiling slope down from 10.6 to 8.3 or so on both sides, so a pretty gentle slope). Should I adjust for this, or live with it?
Thanks for watching! With slope ceilings I would sketch it out to scale and see where the angles hit. I use a program when doing room designs but it can be done either way.
Love your videos, but what would you recommend for rooms with vaulted ceilings? I have a 14'x17' room with 12' vaulted ceilings. The center of the ceiling is flat, but only 3' wide and my walls are 8'' high. My atmos will likely have to go in the slanted parts of the ceiling. Any suggestions?
I was going to get 15 degree Monoprice or RSL ceiling speakers but now I'm hearing about angled mounting brackets purchased or the brackets as a DIY project from tubes. What do you think of the angled brackets and what do you take out of the Audio Science review on the RSL 34K MKII. I'm thinking I should buy the RSL's and be done with it
Once again great info on this already complicated topic. I designed my room based the the information you have shared here on YT and I agree a well setup room will outperform higher ends gear. Keep up the great work and thank you fir your solid advise 👍🏽
Thanks Devils! Glad i've been of some use... :)
What is the minimal distance from back atmos speaker placed at back wall to the ear @ MLP assuming 2-3 people on couch? I want to decide if I go 2 or 4 atmos put my couch will be near the wall. I can meet the 55deg with 4 speakers but than speakers will be on wall, ~40cm from ceiling (1.9m from floor). I think I should opt for only 2 atmost but want to make sure it's not a good idea to get 4 in this situation or how far should I move the couch to make it work.
5.2.4 svs elevations, not installed yet ceiling. Front baffle is 20deg. Its pretty tiny circle around mlp 5 feet ceiling from ears with 75deg - 20deg svs = 55 recommended?
Great info and thanks for the time you put into it! Ive got a question about my addic dimensions. Ive got slope ceilings and the height is 10.5ft. The width is 20.35ft. My seats are dead center in the room and head level is 37inch and it is a 7.1.4 setup. So in my case the separation of the height speakers depends on the width there hanging on. At the moment there hanging 55degrees head level just like your video. So..The question is how high for the heights is your recommendation? thx
Hey Mike, I 'm not exactly sure what you're asking but the height should be as high as possible and then use the diagram to get them placed.
Is the information in this video limited to X.X.4 setup or can this video information also pertain to a 5.1.2 setup?
Great stuff. Love the wardrobe changes. Hollywood award show style.
Yeah I'm practicing for when I make it to the big time 😉😁
what should I do when my ceiling is just over 6ft(75")? If I use the 55 degree the speakers are almost over top of my sitting area. Do you think this will still work well?
If my front speakers are at 60 degrees from MLP when I do the calculations for 55 degrees with a 12 foot ceiling height that more or less puts the in ceiling atmos in line with the mains. My question is that too far apart for the atmos. Seems kind of wide. Over 13 ft apart. Or should I move them closer?
I've tried many different placements for my heights (2). The placement I settled on before watching this was putting them to the sides, didn't smear and got an okay-ish image. But man placing them at the 55 degree angle definitely wow'd me and this is 100% where my heights are living permanently. You're doing gods work with your videos
So, is the optimal placement of Atmos speakers basically a 55 degree cone from the optimal seating position?
If a ceiling joist is in the way for the height speakers and assuming they are 60 degrees apart is it better to move the heights inward thus decreasing the angle between the heights to less than 60 degrees, but increasing the angle between the bed layer and the heights or move the heights further away from each other increasing the separation between the heights but lowering the angle to the bed layer. I know there is a range, but what is the min angle before smearing to one layer or another happens in your experience. If I make the heights to wide I will create a gap between them (think Ozone hole :) ) - Thanks for the great vids - working my way through them one by one.
I would try not go go more than 55 degrees. If the adjustment forces you past that i'd consider going closer vs further out.
Great video! This has definitely pushed me to buy some Krix ic-52 in ceiling speakers to run a 5.1.4 setup.
I'm a bit puzzled on how to work out the recommended 55 deg angle equation when the in ceiling speakers are already aimed 20 deg on the unit. Any help greatly appreciated!
Regards.
The speakers angle is irrelevant as far as placement goes. Place the speakers at the right angles. You do need to consider the lack of angle as 20 degrees isn't much angle. If you do use such a speaker I'd go with 60 vs 55 as you're dealing with a speaker that isn't capable of aiming at the mlp so going a little close will help... Some.. But in no way over comes the issue.
That can be acceptible with budget speakers but there are much better atmos options that can hit the mlp and a few can even cross aim which is optimal.
ive been watching your videos and i have not nptoced if youvecovered this . i have a 5.1 setup and i want to add atmos but i dont want my couch as far forward as it would need to be to quite get 55 degrees behind me on the ceiling. if its a speaker on the back wall but its at a point where its still 55 degrees would that be similar or do you think that would be very noticable etc.
Hello Steve or someone else if Steve does not read me! I have a question about rear placement of Dolby Atmos speakers. Unfortunately I do not have a lot of space behind my sitting position. I placed my Atmos speakers on the wall behind the couch they are pointed to each other instead of being positioned 35 until 60 degrees. My question is does this still get Surround sound. At this moment they are placed like 90 degrees more or less facing each other.
I am using the Dali Alteco c1 as Dolby atmos speakers, are they eligible to use as atmos because now i have 4 of those. they are normally used as downfiring speakers but with the angle in them. I dont know if you know them speakers.
Hi Steve - great diagram. However, I was just thinking, if you mark a point 55 degrees to the front and then mark a point 55 degrees to side, in like an L shape, forming a square grid, then the actual angle to each speaker directly drawn diagonally from the MLP to each speaker actually becomes more like 45 degrees. So should the 55 degrees be worked out diagonally, by drawing a circle around the MLP at 55 degrees then placing the Atmos speakers along that circle, or should it be done by going forward by 55 then to the side by 55, despite the longer distance diagonally? Thanks
You are correct but we find the angle as shown here. We don't use the angle directly to it.
this measurement also apply for a a 5.1.2 setup? or it should be more towards the 60 degree if my room allows only for 2 atmos celling speakers? Thank you in advance
if you're never going to add top rear i'd go with 60.
It's a pitty I made holes in my ceiling already.
I set Atmos speakers at 45 degrees front and back, and it sounds great, but as you say, Im not always feeling the sound is coming from the ceiling and not front the front or rear speakers.
I wish I could change to 55°, but I can't anymore.
Hey Santiago, It still sounds goodsat 45 and if you did 45 that is when you can really benefit from adding top mids. At 45 you're just getting to the point where it's smearing but it's not too bad at that point.
Another great instructional vid.
But bit off topic question.
Where do you reliably source good Dolby Atmos content from?
One overlooked detail is to actually experience Atmos knowing the source is Atmos and its utilising it is essential.
Cheers Craig
Thanks Craig,
I used to get the in the mail as I was on Dolby's list. A few years back they stopped coming and I need to try and find out what's up. There are some online sources including maybe straight from Dolby as some have claimed but I've not yet found.
@@hometheatergurus
I would be interested to know. Perhaps someone else here might know of a guaranteed good demonstration / atmos source for access to able to order online? As I'm not in US
I get the 55 degree angle and resulting distance from front to back atmos placement but what is the calculation for the proper width of the placement (wast to west)? Based on your recommended formula I would be setting my atmos 3.2 ft in front and back of my MLP but how far apart should they be from each other? Because of sloped ceilings I can only spread them apart by about 4.5 ft, is that enough separation side to side?
If I heard him correctly. He said use the same measurement. So if you got 3.2ft. I believe you would spread them 3.2 ft apart from the center. I’m not an expert. But this is how I understood it.
You mentioned an array of height speakers. What is the proper way to split a channel from the processor to multiple amp channels to power an array of speakers?
Super keen to try this! I’ve been running front heights and rear heights for years and never experienced the “bubble” everyone speaks of. My FH angles are 25 deg, which I now see is no good(some people swear by 30-35 deg though?) My RH are obviously closer with MLP being almost against the back wall, they are 50deg though. I want to move my FH, but would it matter if they are say at 45deg and the RH are at 50? I’ll also set them as top front and top rear after moving the front. They are Dali Alteco speakers(similar to SVS prime elevation) Thanks again for these detailed techie videos, really enjoying it.
You're welcome. Stay in the 55-60 window for top front. You'll hear atmos for the first time.. 😉
@@hometheatergurus Thanks!! And will it matter if my Rear Heights/Top Rears are at 50deg when the Top Fronts will be at 55? I’m going to try and get it done this weekend, and will feed back the results! 👍🏻
Hi there! So does it matter if the top rear angles are slightly different to the top fronts? Say like 45 vs 55? Thanks!
I’m learning so much watching your videos, Thank you so much for publishing them all. What do you
Do if you have angled atmos speakers, like the 45° degree Triad speaker?
Thanks! You reach out to me for a layout design..:). Triad is my go to with for me clients. The 45 degree options must be aimed toward the opposite side walls or toed in but that often won't fit between joists. Any time you see them installed aimed parallel with the side walls well that's a really bad install where the opposite seats lose so much energy you get very poor panning.
@@hometheatergurusThanks so much for the reply! Ugh! That's how I had them (we had a house fire and we're in a rental home right now) I may give you a call when I get things planned out. Nothing dedicated, just a best room for 2 ch and Ht.
I've got hard angle cathedral ceilings. Is there a modified calculation for those or is it best to just start with the 55 degrees and play around with it till the best placement is found?
Angles are angles so the speakers go where they go. Sloped ceilings make it more difficult to find the placement but the speaker location should be at the same angles as if the ceiling was flat.
I did 3D model of my media room in Sketchup. Now I know where exactly put any speaker.
Sketchup is a nice program.
Good video!
I’ve been questioning my speaker placement for a while. I’m currently at your recommendations of 55 degrees, but physically this puts the speakers 4’ in front/back and I also have them in line with fronts which make the 4.5’ to the left/right.
I’m using down firing in-ceiling speakers so my question is, would it be better to move these speakers closer, or replace them with 30-35 degree angled speakers?
I’m not sure if the angled speakers would give a “sound directly overhead” effect.
Thx in advance!
You need them at 55-60 on the width as well so they're likely way too wide now. Also yes aiming is huge. Go for some with 45 degrees if possible at aim for the far seat. This is called cross aiming. But any aiming is better than none.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks. The width is pretty close - 56 right, and 50 left due to ventilation constraints. Given that the placement is pretty much to your recommendations, it seems you agree that replacing the down firing speakers with angled ones would be worth doing / a significant improvement. Correct?
@@wesg92 sounds good. Definitely get some that aim if possible. Being the seat in line with the speaker is 35 degrees or so off axis the center spot is likely 45ish and opposite seat over 50. It would be like listening to mains off axis and we all know how much toe in improves their sound.
Since you highly recommend Anthem AVM 70 can you do a video on getting the most out of it with ARC
I haven't had time yet but audioholics has some good ones. Gene has some really good walk throughs.
You make great content. Keep going! - It seems that a Dolby Atmos - Auro3D mixed layout, which became very polular here in Germany, is a bigger compromise for Atmos than for Auro3d content. Not ideal… What do you think about 5.1.2 Layouts? Especially for the height layer, is it always better to go for 4 height channels, when the room dimensions are big enough?
Thanks Mario, If you can properly place 4 do 4, every time!! As for formats I think so many have never heard Atmos placed like this video shows. Doing that may just have you forget the others completely.
Thank you very much.
@@hometheatergurusin my room I’m forced to set against the back wall, I know it’s not optimal but it is what it is. My question is can I make a 5.1.4 work, and if not does the 55 Degree angle still hold true
These stats are great for one person. How do you calculate for two or three people watching a movie.
So I asked a question awhile back about Atmos set-up with a ceiling fan getting in the way of where my optimal location for Atmos speakers should be. However, I may have gotten a little overzealous and I placed by Atmos speakers about 55 degrees (a little off due to the ceiling fan) and I often feel like they're not super noticeable. Granted, I know these are support channels, but I think where I goofed up is that I only have a 5.1.2. Would 55 degrees from the MLP be optimal with only 2 Atmos speakers or would 60 degrees or possibly closer be better? My worry is if they're *too* close they'll bleed into my surrounds. Any advice on if 55 degrees is the optimal placement for 2 height speakers? If I move them I want it to be my final time as I hate popping holes in my ceiling.
Hey mate, if you only have 2 atmos then optimal placement is 90deg i.e. directly above MLP. Hope this helps
Hey man love your videos! I’m getting 4 Triad Sat 9s tomorrow for my theatre. Going to have my speakers at that sweet 55 degree spot. I’m worrying about the Triad’s woofer being angled at 45 degrees which is 10 degrees off axis to the listening position. Is this a problem? Would love your input :)
Your dealer should be assisting you as all Triad dealers are supposed to assist with any placement or performance questions. When I sale them I actually lay them out for the client and help them dial in aiming. To answer the question the woofers are handling lower frequencies that are less directional.
@@hometheatergurus I think he was more concerned about the angle of the speaker in general (woofer and tweeter). As you know, those rotating satellites have angled woofer and tweeters (same plane). It's a good question but I think there is enough dispersion that it will cover the 10 degree difference in angle.
@@shanelorente the tweeter is not locked to 45 degrees and can be aimed directly at the mlp. The woofer plays lower frequencies which won't be effected by a 10 degree change. These are questions for the dealer as all triad dealers should be assisting with all placement and setup questions. Any I sell I actually do a zoom or do a quick layout to go over the placement.
So in a new room, do you recommend just 4 ceiling channels 55 degrees and just not using 6? My room will likely only have 1 row of three seats.
If you properly place 4 you don't need 6 and 6 can actually hurt the overall performance. If u need help with the layout that's what I do. My contact info is in the description of the video.
I have a question that hopefully could help others. In my living room my couch is a few inches from the back wall. Straight up from MLP is a little under 2 feet from the back wall. So if I mount the rears right in the corner, should I place the front 2 atmos speakers using your formula, or would I be better off not using 4 atmos and just use 2? I’m probably gonna just give it a go with 4 and follow this as closely as I can, unless someone says no it won’t work, don’t waste your time
I’m a bit confused by this presentation. Is this diagram with the recliner showing placement of Atmos speaker pairs, front to back? In other words, angle of separation between front Atmos pair and rear Atmos pair in a x.x.4 configuration?
in the video we cover front to back and width.
Your videos are extremely helpful. Just one question about a 5.1.2 setup. In this thread you said that Atmos should be set at 60 degrees but in one of your other videos you said 35 forward and out so I’m confused. Also what is calc for 35?
yeah I know that's a little confusing. When i said 35 that was from overhead (90) which is 55 degrees. I quit using degrees away from overhead (90) as it confused people so I try to only talk about actual angle from 0. You want to be in the 55-60 range as shown in this video.
Thank you. I'm going to try to work a 5.1.4 into the room as I am finishing a basement.
Great vid as usual. Video suggestion - many of us have back wall against our couch, perhaps you can do a full video on best placement if you only had 7ch to work with all the way to 15ch (like the upcoming new Denon).
@@HTadd1ct not referring to the couch placement against the wall. Was asking for how best to utilize additional av receiver channels in those situations. If we have 11ch av receiver, how best to utilize and where best to place speakers.
So… I was recommended to “See Ep. 49” in response to my question of whether 5.1.2 was worth it or not. After watching I still haven’t been able to answer that, but I am learning other things.
1. There are a lot of unnecessary confusing terms when discussing Atmos. For example, when discussing ceiling speakers, sometimes the angle is given using the ceiling above the MLP as 0 degrees, and sometimes the horizon, in the front of the room is listed as zero degrees, and people use them interchangeably without clarifying, and in the same videos.
2. I’m beginning to think that receiver manufacturers are hoodwinking customers when they say 7 channel Receivers support Atmos. Apparently, whenever you ask experts about using your receivers limit of 5.1.2 for Atmos, you are directed to the virtues of 7.1.4. For Pete’s sake, If it requires 4 ceiling speakers to play Atmos, I wish they wouldn’t put Atmos on the box.
3. About half of the experts on RUclips are full of crap, and it is a pretty steep learning curve to learn who’s who.
4. I had forgotten how difficult it is to educate oneself in the Home Theater and Audio arena, and I had forgotten how I actually had to teach myself through hands on and tinkering when I was really up to date. There are no shortcuts.
5. If you watch some experts often enough, you’ll get even more confused, as they can contradict themselves on a regular basis.
So If I bought Klipsh slm 3400 and get 55 degrees it will be not great becouse they not directional to my seat ? Do I should do like 60degrees ? My audio will be 5.1.2.
Thank you
For 5.1.2 I'd do top fronts around 60. If you need a budget option look at the rsl 34e. Great atmos speaker that will sound far better than non directional.
Nice addition to help people with normal rooms. I have low ceilings with in ceilings. from head to ceiling 39 inches. 39x.7=27.3, that would put front atmos really really close to me. I set mine based on Audio Advice Room Designer- mine are 2'in from wall. fronts are about 4-4.5' forward and rears are 2.5(ish)' back. Still Feels not 100% If I remember correctly it was Front Atmos 8' IN fron screen wall and rears 13' IN front screen wall(center to center font to rear they're 7' apart I had a obstacle). Sorta wish I could re do them- but old ceiling junk and i dont want to see holes haha.
yeah you don't wanna look at holes. For angled ceilings I have a link in ep 47 ( I think) to a digital protractor with a laser. That's good for finding them. Also you can draw it out to scale and find them or use a program like Visio or sketchup.
I just want to double check; do I
a) look at the direct angle from my ear to the speaker cone, to be 55 degrees
or b) I look straight forward, measure 55 degrees, look straight left, measure 55 degrees, and then find the intersection? (now the angle between my ear and the speaker cone is no longer 55 degrees, but rather something closer to 45.
a) basically draws a circle around me, where as b) I think gets to a rectangle/square
I don’t know why. But the width of placement is really messing with me. Because when I follow the calculations it’s always in line with my mains or outside my mines. Never inside. My x is 80” x .7 = 56” but width, 56” too? Or 56” total so 23” from center? My room is 10’ wide, 10’ tall
How does this workout using RSL in-ceilling Atmos that has a 15 degree angle for Atmos ?
I have the same question. Installing a pair tomorrow
That's great stuff. But we have pur entertainment Room where our recl8nera and couch are qt the back wall with 9ft ceiling. Now what? Where do we put our speakers at? Our TV and front speakers are 15 feet from us as well as our R;L center speakers. Now what?
Hey Steve,
So I just would like to be clear, on the overhead angles.
I saw in one of your videos you preferred 35:degrees for atmos speakers to set at.
But in this video, you say 55 degrees is preferred.
I just want to make sure before I get the drywall saw out lol.
Ha, yeah I'd rather you ask too. I'd feel pretty bad If I confused you and you cut them in the wrong spot.
It's the same point. In that video is was saying 35 from directly overhead. I actually said 55 from the bed layer in the same video as well but just because it's clear to me it's not always clear to viewers. . It confused some so from here on out I'm going to just use the angle in reference to the bed layer to keep the confusion down.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for the quick reply!
@@tonyoneill7031 you're welcome!
What if my seating position is close to back wall? Should I install rear atmos speakers just slightly behind my ears or none at all? Would having just front pair at 55 degrees do anything for DA experience? Please help 🙏
I wood like to know this as well.
I have the same problem. What I am planning to do if I ever get a new AVR and install the "top rear" Atmos speakers; I will place them as close to the back edge of the ceiling, aim them slightly forward and pull the couch out into the room a bit just for movies. Sure it's inconvenient, but should be worth it - big time.
what does bedlayer mena? newbie here. first video I have ever watched on this channell
Hey Ben. Bedlayer speakers are the lcr, surrounds, rears and sometimes wides. The speakers on the listener level horizontal plane.
I'm going to be using 4 kef eggs for the height speakers which could be used on wall or on ceiling but I'm struggling to find out if better to put them above the front and rears or on the side walls or even on the ceiling in the same configuration as described here. Can anyone point me in the direction of which way would be best? Thanks
All speakers go at specific angles so angles will tell you where they go. If your want great atmos do tops per the recent atmos videos and not heights.
@Home Theater Gurus Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. So use the placement as per the in ceiling videos you've recently done but surface mounted and pointing down towards the single row of seats I'll have, presumably with a vertical orientation of the speakers to maximise the width of coverage?
Where to our atmos high speakers in a 2 speakers setup?
I would add that dolby etc.. Does a really poor job showing customers how to actually benefit from their products.. Thankfully we got people like you
Thanks Whatever12!!!
If I am only able to do Front & Rear Heights , should the Atmos Height speakers be placed above the Front L/R Speakers ? As well as the Rear L/R surrounds ?
if you're doing heights then yes place them directly above the mains/rears. This keeps them the same angle apart.
@@hometheatergurus thank you for the reply!!! And the distance I keep my front L/R a part are determined how far I sit from my center speaker baffle ?
@@ants9574 correct. I like the have the mains 50-60 degrees apart center of one main to the center of the other main.
@@hometheatergurus and then the height of the Front & Rear L/R Height speakers is determind by how far we sit from the center baffle as well ?
I appreciate this so much, you're the #1 person I follow on YT for the Home Theatre hobby! Glad you're back doing content! If I have any other questions should I send you an email or ask on here?
@@ants9574 you can ask here. Yeah the heights should be around the same width as they are "around" the same distance from you the same width will be roughly the same angle apart as the mains are. Now tops are usually much closer to you which is why they'll be physically closer to be at the same angles as the mains.
So if you can't aim your atmos independently (built into floor speakers) 45 would be the sweet spot?
No... The video will explain the ideal angle. You want to ideally be closer to the seating than 45.
What Tolerance would you recommend for down-firing speakers ? 60 degrees front & back ?
Yeah a tighter grouping for sure. No further out than 60.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks These videos have been very helpful
@@hometheatergurus 60 degrees was the closests using the formula I found. Should I go even closer to the MLP ?. At 60 degrees I'm roughly 3 feet out & 3 feet over from the MLP.
how far apart should the front left Atmos and front right Atmos speakers be?
We covered that in previous videos but i should have stated it clearly here as well but you can use the same tolerances for width.
What if 55 degrees to the left and right (wide) ends up lining up with the placement of the mains? Do you do any adjustments? Or is it ok?
That's fine and will happen in some cases but it's irrelevant if they're dimensionally in line or not. Follow the angles and remember they go where they go.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks:) mounting new front atmos from From Arendal sound this weekend:)
So you contradict Technodad! Who is right without experiencing it ourselves! The best is to get KEF UNIQ in ceiling speakers and you don’t need to angle them as they have fantastic dispersion!
The KEFs still lose energy off axis. Tops at 45 degrees will place the mlp around 55 degrees or more and even worse at opposite seats. Good off axis just means the off axis resembles on axis. They still need to be aimed as you end up with the further seats having far less upper energy and you have to boost the upper end for all seats killing sensitivity.
I'm a KEF dealer BTW.
Also In the video I'm simply dissecting the studio guide. If you don't agree with it you need to contact Dolby. They wrote it but I can tell you it's the key to amazing atmos.
Great video again
Quick Q's
New room. Perfect in everyway
Except the ceiling is quite low
Its probably around 88" in height
Is that too low for .2 or .4 atmos speakers?
I was hoping to mount not in ceiling due to asbestos
This is great! Have you heard Techno Dad’s new theory after doing Atmos mixes in logic? He came to the conclusion that the best setup to replicate how atmos is mixed is to use front & rear heights (like Auro 3D or DTS-X) with down firing top middle’s. He said that perfectly replicates the space of the atmos viewer that a mix engineer is looking at.
I wouldn't waste any more time going down that rabbit hole mate. Stick to the advice of channels like Home Theatre Gurus & Audioholics etc & you can't go wrong ✌
Hey Nick, Yeah there's always been some that want to cater to the other formats as well and there's nothing wrong with that but It does cripple atmos pretty badly as we discuss in the video.
@@hometheatergurus Was that in this video you mentioned or in one of the previous 2 videos you did about this? I just can’t recall that part. If you have the time to watch his video about I would be curious, because he does make some good points about the atmos layout not being the same as what the engineer sees when mixing for Atmos. I just always thought of viewing Atmos as more of a bubble shape and less of a box as the atmos viewer depicts. Obviously I’m inclined to lean towards your setup method as that is pretty much my current placement. I was lucky in that I didn’t place my heights as wide as my front stage but they are 45 degrees from center for front to back so I want to see if I can bring them closer to that 55 degree sweet spot.
This is based on the studio pdf.
Great video. I have a 5.1.2 system with SVS prime elevation speakers for atmos. So 55˚ in front of mlp? Is it correct to mount them in line between C and the front ( C-FR/2 )? And should I mount they with a toe in like the fronts?
Guys please stop trying to figure out 5.x.2 and a get a soundbar. Or pay someone to put in 4 ceiling speakers with a tweeter angled at your lazyboy. That's all we need to know with Chana etc and this whole debate.
9 x channels in the bedlayer make the biggest difference too. I watch this channel because the creator told me go with 9 channel bedlayer instead of 6 atmos height.
@@chebrubin So the positive feedback shown in the video, where people moved the atmos speakers from the wall etc to the ceiling is not true? And moved them from being in line with the fronts? We can not all have the livingroom filled with speakers. But I appreciate your answer.
You mount them at the proper angles and those will require brackets as it'll likely be on your ceiling to and yep you need proper toe in. Atmos actually have a sound stage. The width is also covered in this video but it's the same angles.
You do the best you can. Not everyone is going to be able to properly place them as shown in the video and that's OK. It's just good to realize when you're making a compromise so if your Atmos sounds weak you know it's likely due to placement.
@@hometheatergurus Thank you for answering and thanks for all the great videos.
Hey there, Steven! The invitation is still open to discuss this with us on the Daily HiFi Podcast. It's just speaker placement after all. I've found that it's a certain few viewers who like to put content creators against one another for their own entertainment. I try not to play into that myself.
I don't doubt your way sounds good, but there are things I have questions about and I think it requires a back and forth discussion to clarify details. I use the 30° angle with on-wall speakers because I tend to upmix with Auro3D for stereo, 5.1, 7.1 and poor Atmos mixes. More often than not, the content I watch is not an awesome Atmos mix (RUclips,) so my setup works for me. The times when the Atmos mix is great, I leave it in Atmos and I deal with the speakers not being in accordance with the studio spec as you recommend. I guess my question is about the movies that simply don't have much height content at all like 007 No Time to Die. If I turn off all my other speakers except for the heights, there's hardly any content up there when what's happening on screen suggests there should be. In that case, it doesn't matter where I have the speakers placed, because no sound is coming out of them at all.
Hey Joe, If you you guys wanna talk strictly performance I may be game. I'm not interested in any drama around holes in atmos or room boundary vs angles as that is irrelevant and opinion , performance is all that matters. I only care about making awesome rooms. I'm gonna send you something on messenger.
how do you decide that a particular movie has bad atmos mix without even watching it from start to end. some movies have zero height effects in the first half and during some important scenes in the second half they have great height channel effects, so that it would have great impact . can i know how your theater is? how good is that acoustically? what is the rt timings etc? since these things are more important to compare audio formats and placements.
@@chandan6119 based on what you're saying, I could possibly have to have a bad experience for half a movie? I typically watch action movies. It shouldn't take that long. What are we even talking about? You're asking me to give you specs about my theater? Don't worry about it. Handle your business. My theater sounds good enough to impress the co-founder and former CEO of Dirac, a VP at ELAC, Erin from Erin's Audio Corner, and many others.
@@joentell so you are not ready to talk about your listening space. but you are ready to prove that dolby is wrong and all famous home theatre designers like grimani,Keith yates etc are wrong in their Atmos speaker placement?this is why guys like Steve or gene wouldn't come to your lives stream,you are not ready to talk anything technical.
@@joentell so ,you want sounds from top channels all time even if there is no need in the scene?this is the dumbest way to watch a movie.gene did a pretty good video regarding your idea.
Can you make a video response on technodads recent video about atmos speaker placement, if you agree or disagree and why?
No. I've already discuss how to follow the studio guide and how to ensure you heard what was intended. I don't get in to confrontations which is what it would end up being. It serves absolutely zero purpose and frankly isn't worth the time. If you want amazing atmos I've spent plenty of time on it. I'd rather spend the time washing my facial hair. 😜
@@hometheatergurus I wouldn't say it serves absolutely no purpose, it helps the consumers make an educated decision, kind why I think official debates are useful, but I totally understand and respect where your coming from. I wish Dolby would be more clear
@@ChrisHVACguy Dolby is clear as i've shown it's just you have to look in the studio guide which we've dissected and that guide is performance based. The home guide is sales based and that's not going to change as Atmos is a money making product as are the speakers and everything with it. They need huge tolerances and claims of big promises to keep sales up.
Distance left to right should be the same as from the fronts to rear atmos speakers? Essentially creating a square with the MLP in the middle. To get 55 degrees based my my ceiling height my atmos are to be place 3 ft forward and backwards of the MLP. Ceiling height is low at 7 foot 9.5 inches. Just trying to make sure left to right is also 3 feet. Head on couch is 3.5 feet which makes A 4.29 feet.
No there's not rule that says that although that rumor floats around. We must account for bedlayer height and make adjustments. If the bedlayer doesn't force adjustments in the atmos we may have a square but not all the time. We cover than here and in the previous atmos videos. In one we cover the studio pdf very well which shows how to make the adjustments. Yes the guide here is also used for width.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for the quick reply. To me it's a bit confusing about the width because you never actually calculate it and only mention it one quick time saying to use this same formula. After reviewing it a few times, I think I got it. The width would be the same at 55 degrees of allowable but could go as high as 60 or low as 45 degree if there is a need to but in an ideal situation you would end up with the same distance left and right of the mlp as you would front to back because it would all equal 55 degrees creating the bubble. If that's wrong please let me know
That is correct. It's just not a rule that they should be the same. Any time you have rears and a back row for instance they won't be. Or really high surrounds, they won't be.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks again your videos are always helpful. I think my OCD was causing me to over think it but it all makes sense now. Better to ask and only cut the holes once.
Is this formula using downfiring or adjustable in ceiling speakers?
Atmos speaker period. As for down firing or aimed.... We don't want the dog on the floor to get the best sound so aiming is the way to go. We want to setup similar to a studio so we get what's intended. This would make a good video.... Aimed or down firing....hmmm
@@hometheatergurus yes it would. I'm having difficulty deciding where to place my downfiring speakers as I cannot afford aimed ones. My best guess would be 3-3.5 feet out and over from the MLP. Same for the rear.
@@MarkSobkowiak-tk8up Hey Mark, as they don't aim I would stay toward the closer end of the tolerance. 60 degrees.
Do you need to keep the speakers angled after the calibration? Or can you make them flat with the ceiling after the calibration and still get good audio?
Personally I'd always point them at the listening position as calibrating an off axis speaker won't solve it being off axis.
See ep 47. They really need to be aimed if you want great Atmos.
@@hometheatergurus Got it! Thanks! Gonna watch it now.
With so much focus it seems on only the primary listening position, does any of this change if I want my setup to focus on an entire couch. I don’t want my setup to only sound good in one seat.
This was covered in the video.
@@hometheatergurus yea that's on me, been watching a lot of videos. I'll ask a more specific question
@@whiteandnerdytuba I'm often guilty of the same so don't feel bad.. 😁
I See more and more people choosing top middle and top Front.
Does that make Sense?
My Couch ist about 1,2m from Back Wall.I think about changing from a Classic top Front/top Rear to top middle and Front Height or top Front .
My ceiling is pretty low (2m).
Don't do that. It's a down grade. We've not had a single viewer or client prefer heights over properly placed top for and top rear. Mimic the studio to hear what was intended.
@@hometheatergurus i have the top Front about 35 degree and top Rear about 45°...Low ceiling,so If i would Go 50° something,the speaker Pairs would get closer
@@texxhexxmm if the top front is at 35 it's a height and way too far away with a huge overhead gap. Follow the video and enjoy.
@@hometheatergurus yes...but with my 2 meters high ceiling i come close with the top and rear ( distance with 45° about 1,6m) . Maybe i have better result with only one pair top middle? Or do you say,still 4 better experience?
@@hometheatergurus because of my Low ceiling i tend to go for a 7.2.2 Setup..maybe for lower ceiling Superior to 5.2.4?
Can we spend some time on how to handle placement with multiple rows without using arrays for atmos?
We could but there's no way to accurately place objects for multiple rows without arrays.
@@hometheatergurus Sof for three rows of seating, you'd need a pair of atmos speakers per row?
There's factors that determine placement. If you need help with a layout design my contact info is in the video description.
Would these rules also apply in a .6 setup? Since you also have 90 degree top speakers?
Or I could not respond mid video and wait for you to address this 😂
haha..Yeah don't worry about it.. I do the same thing all the time...😆
What about if my main listening seat is up against a wall?
move couch forward 4 feet or forget about ever having 4 atmos speakers.
Hello! Love your videos! I’ve been watching a ton. I have a compromised room and I would love your suggestion.
If I’m understanding this correctly, the distance from my ear to the ceiling is roughly 4ft 6in. Using your super helpful graph I now know the atmos speakers for my 5.1.2 setup will need to be 3ft 1in forward and wide to be your recommended 55 degrees.
I have a ceiling fan right where my right atmos speaker would be. I’d need to make it 3ft 10inches to clear the fan. I know it’s not ideal, but if I fix my level trims with my SPL to compensate do you think I’ll still have a good Sonic experience? Or should I try to match the left speaker to also be 3ft 10in wide? I’m really racking my brain and want to know what’s best before I buy and set up.
Thank you for your time
Thanks and yeah you'll be OK. That's only a few degrees out. I do like to go in vs out when I have an issue but that also depends on how far i'm having to adjust.
@@hometheatergurus thank you! I thought about going “in” instead of “out” but then the right atmos speaker will be directly overhead and will be really off from the left.
Fantastic content as always, calm and informative. I like how you're a bit of a maverick but with "SCIENCE" TM to back it up. Unlike a certain pony tailed persona... Ahem. Moving on! I am a bit shocked that T to the V isn't magical... It's been End Game, halo tech for me, for years now. Damn, I need a moment. So Mac is just refaced with "Magical Unicorn Dust Software." TM and TV (HA!) is over hyped. Damn, I could go drool over Lyingdwarf I guess. Fine.
Ha.. yeah i know the pony tail you speak of..haha. As for T-V it's awesome for sure, it's not magic at all. I've done testing through a buddy with a Trinnov demo room and blind testing found that arrays vs Trinnov mapping , Arrays won every time, something we can do with a 16 channel processor. The Trinnovs measurements also were found to not be accurate so independent system had to be used to measure the room. I've got client feedback with Triads and standard processors vs Trinnovs in high end demo rooms with top tier Synth and Focal and they felt theirs far outperformed the Trinnov room. Nothing can replace proper placement and acoustics. If you have the coin sure it's the best processor but it's not going to magically fix the room. Now I don't like that it doesn't allow DSU to use wides, they are silent. A win for Anthem.
@@hometheatergurus
Yep... That's some PRICEY foam, haha. Can you explain "Arrays"? I only know of line arrays, in a sound context. It's interesting RE: Trinnovs with Synthesis / Focals VS. standard processors/ Triads, because the former sounds like absolute End Game. And you've mentioned horn and standard tweeters, so that presumably takes that out of the equation.
I've not heard Triad, one day perhaps. We only have a limited range here in Aus, even with our proximity to Asia. The buying power of 325 million VS 22 million. It'll be D.I.Y. for myself, it's something I enjoy so no complaints there.
I'm 100% with you and 'audioguy' on A.V.S.; "It's always the room." Now if I could just win Powerball and completely copy his Wisdom/ Trinnov home theater, no one would ever hear of me again. Once again, thanks for all the info you share with us all.
@@handroids1981 You do have Aussie Krix speakers over in Oz. Who are said to make some of the best performing horn cinema speakers in the world!
Gurus, this one is for you I have a 6.2.4 speaker setup, with one speaker at the back of my room, will this give me the same performance as 7.2.4?
If your processor can handle a single rear and you get good panning from surround to rear to surround, you will be fine.
Be warned: A single rear surround will NOT be used to play back the static objects at rear surround in the mix. It will only get used for dynamic objects that move through that space in the room. It will add some fill for objects moving around, but many mixes use static objects and that single rear surround won't get used at all for those, sadly.
@@hometheatergurus Thank You.
@@TheReverendSlim Thank you.
What should I do if my couch is only 3ft from back wall? At 60 degree my back atmos speaker will be exactly at my back wall.
Do you Mean at 120 they're at your wall? 30 degrees behind 90 (90 being directly overhead)? If so, perfect! Put them there.
@@hometheatergurusYes, I mean 120 degree. Thank you! What width angle should I mount my atmos speaker?
@@hometheatergurusOh another question😅 Since I have a lot of room left in front of me should I move it further or keep it the same angle as my rear?
@@Flightsimmovies 55-60 just like the distance forward and back so you can use the same formula for width.
@@hometheatergurusThank you!