Not in the sexualization sense, but I see this a lot with the reaction to XG. They have a really different and unique style with these latest releases and I've seen many hate on them for being 'too much', 'scary' or 'messy'. I think many people want idols to be different and unique, but not too different where they aren't perfect it girls or conventionally pretty.
I forgot the name of the group but they had like a punk or rock concept? One of the members had spiky red hair and people were leaving such nasty comments about it
I love XG for many reasons and specially this✨ they’re here to break boundaries, when they said they’re unique and crazy they really meant it! The double standard of people when they react to a boy group wearing freaky clothes and a girl group is so infuriating
As a fan of (mostly) girl groups and (a few) boy groups, it always gave me the ick how some kpop stans talk down on female idols when they choose to be sexual or mature of their own accord and then praise male idols for being sexual and even expect them to be revealing when they do not want to (i.e. Mark from NCT getting uncomfortable about showing his abs)
And also, when a female idol shows a mature image, many of their fans call her fake, while I’ve never seen nobody saying a male idol he has a fake body
Being sensual for men and women aren't the same.. Men biologically and psychologically got the upper hand in this regard.. In sexual market, male are the buyers and women are the sellers..
@donttalktome365days I never said it was the same. I agree that women are always at a disadvantage in this. There are clear different expectations for men and women when it comes to sexuality and it's not only in kpop, but in society as a whole, of course. While men like to sexualize women, they also expect them to "stay pure" and criticize the ones that choose to embrace their sexuality. Due to some internalized misogyny, some women also criticize those who choose to present a more mature image. While there is no win for women in this situation, what I also notice and don't agree with is that in kpop, both men and women, and even worse girls and boys, are often sexualized against their will. And of course, I also don't agree with the demonization of women who are comfortable with their sexuality, while men are never criticized for it
The crazy horse.. drama? What do you call it? Scandal? Whatever it is. It makes me so mad that Blinks are heavily spreading misinformation about what is Crazy Horse. Saying that Lisa is at a strip club or something. Some k-pop fans don't know how to do research and just adds fuel to the fire, having other people take their words like it's true without RESEARCH! Lisa is a grown woman, she can do what she wants, respect that.
Okay but why would blinks say that? R u sure they were BLINKS? And not armys? Or kpoppies in general? (Kinda hard to tell now though since blinks and armys are pretending to be each other fandoms 😭🙏🏾)
@@Analou13 fr people blame blink when other idols are hated and they still blame blink when blackpink is hated they blame blink for everything i swear one day they will blame for earthquake
I think Lisa and jungkook are very similar in the way fans perceived them especially at first. Throughout the real real golden days of kpop which was 2017-2018 when bts were like the biggest thing in the world and other kpop groups like blackpink and twice were also introducing themselves to such a wide audience. I feel like the members that tend to catch people's attentions are Lisa and Jungkook. They're both the maknaes. Maknae=cute clueless baby. K. And now they both broke out of these images in the last 2-3 years. It just pains me seeing how well the public accepted jungkook's transition yet bashed and slutshamed Lisa constantly & constantly for hers. It's so misogynistic because everything about the way the public perceived both was so similar up until now. And it's done by other woman!!!
Jungkook got a lot of hate from other fandoms too, let's not ignore that but Lisa's went on for months non stop. Both do not deserve the hate for expressing themselves.
@@seulgislove Damaging someone's career often results in difficulties for the person to continue progressing in their field or maintaining their professional status. Lisa's having none of that, I assume. She's still relevant and popular. "Damage" is a strong word. Sadly, most of the time this hate is caused by their own solo stans dragging others in this mess which can result in the ongoing situation onto months of nonstop bullying back & forth.
@@Ajit-Ayansh Would recommend to put yo glasses and read cuz wtf- JK did get hate let's not ignore that. Lisa got more hate, who's denying that? The person who commented this compared JK and Lisa not me. Don't start issues that never existed 👀
What gets me about Lisa and Jennies hate train for being called such horrible things is that I saw it in brazilian and spanish communities as well, and they still have these massive hate communities in porteguese and spanish for something that is so normalized around them and they probably also done like?????
not sure from where you're from but i'm brazilian. i know brazil's stereotypes but i don't think normalized its the correct word. people have a view that in brazil being sexy or anything related to it its super normal but there are huge conservative communities here. our appeal to foreign countries with artists such as anitta isn't really applied. ofc it depends on the region, brazil has 215 million people, but most hate how brazil is portraited. i do get what you're saying but it does make sense why communities here hate it, brazil is getting more conservative and misogynistic each day. living in latam, i do think that applies to other countries as well.
@@eloxoxo222 I'm also Brazilian from Bahia. I think I may have worded my thoughts incorrectly but when I say normalised, most of the short type of clothes they were and are shamed for is something we see everyday and the dances even though not liked by a lot is something that has become part of Brazil and latam and is very common to see so I don't know why they are hated THAT MUCH for these reasons. A lot of the kpop stans I met here that hate them are women as well, I do understand that maybe it is internalised misogyny or the point that Natasha made that they are delulu and think that it lowers their chances with their biases, but the point I was trying to make is that even though I can see some minor reasons for some haters my brain can't really understand the big community of just haters in latam+, at least from where I stand.
Regarding Lisas appearance in Crazy Horse Paris I can shed some light on it: I've had the opportunity to attend show 4, so I can give a first-hand account, I've actually been there, I've actually sat in the audience: While the usual Crazy Horse show contains topless dancers, Lisa always(!) wore lingerie or a swimsuit. At no time you could see anything deemed inappropriate. She had so much fun, she's been bubbly. And especially with "Crisis? What Crisis!" she absolutely captivated the audience with her portraial of conflicting emotions. Speaking of the audience (bc there's so much misinformation floating around): It's been about 60% women, average age maybe late twenties / early thirties.
I’m not a Stan of any group, but Lisa is someone who caught my attention when I saw BP for the first time, she has this aura that makes you admire her for many reasons and I’m so glad she’s doing her Solo endeavors right now.
LMAO the people who say “omg kpop is becoming westernized 😢” to female idols being sexy wouldn’t survive 2nd gen Edit: I’m surprised this wasn’t mentioned but Lisa was banned from Chinese social media platforms because people kept mass reporting her account. She didn’t anything regarding Crazy Horse on there either.
So real, as a kpop fan since late 2nd gen if those new 4th/5th gen kpop fans find out that there was a 3rd gen girl group that had extremely sexy concepts and preformed with revealing outfits, AND also had lingerie and sexy cosplay photoshoots in the side, lmfao they would have died 😭 (don’t worry they are all adults and have been lingurie “models” before debut) LMFAO NGL WHEN I FOUND OUT I WAS A LITTLE SHOCKED, BUT OH WELL GET THAT BAG YASSSSS
there's also the argument to pose that kpop has always been westernized: just take a look at the very first k-pop groups and you can draw parallels to american artists that both preceded them and also existed alongside these idols in their visual branding and music, not to mention the fact that kpop music has always incorporated english into their lyrics. while i agree global appeal has become even more important in kpop nowadays, kpop has always been westernized to some extent and this really shouldn't be that shocking to fans.
omg i would love to see you do a video analysis/deep dive on double standards in kpop because hooolyyy this is something we really need to be more vocal about. i remember when i discovered the double standards as a newbie kpop fan years ago, my jaw was on the gound cuz it was so ridiculous
Yes agreed! I hate that some kpop stans want to shove it under the rug and want to believe that kpop doesn't have a sexism problem but oh they do and they're very vocal about it
@@greenthinggg yes exactly!! also the fact that thirsting over female idols is considered gross but thirsting over male idols (sometimes MINORS too like??) is somehow okay? like it isnt just sexism, it’s so much more and overall it’s all just EW
the Idol was just a BAD show period..was not good at all...Jennie was the only reason it got any views. She is beautiful and talented and was the only thing about the Idol that was any good at all.
I agree but on the other hand I saw more people hating on the skimpy outfits she wore rather than the bigger problem which is how awful the show was and that didn't sit righ with me. There was almost no naunce when it came to the situation, it was either extreme praise, extreme sl*tshaming and nothing in between
jennie gave them a good chunk of viewers but dont get delusional, the show would've made noise either way because of the weekend, lily and sam, and other co-stars like troye. in fact if you look at the genuine criticism of it, jennie is barely mentioned anywhere because her character was completely irrelevant. a chunk of her fans/ kpop stans watching it for her is actually one of the things to criticize her for. all in all tho, its sadly nothing new that stans cant understand nuance. then again, i think this goes for most people, even here. back when the show dropped, i had genuine criticism, but ofc her fans dont want to hear anything negative about her, or just lump the criticism together with hate comments. not to be a downer, but i dont think stans will ever change this behavior.
@@greenthinggg to add onto that, i agree a lot of people just focused on the outfits, but i think those comments werent all hateful or irrelevant either. in the context of the show and its awful message, the clothes are relevant because they mirror those messages. the show became what it wanted to satirize. if they wanted to satirize the hypersexuality forced upon women/popstars, you dont do that by just actually hypersexualizing them, without discussing it further. you cant just make a sexist show and then claim its fine because it satire, because at the end of it there is 0 satire, and just 100% sexism lol. i hope my point got across, sorry for rambling.
I dont think lisas image sufferd all that much after crazy horse cause the main backlash came from kpop stans that already didnt like her, south korea where she was never supported cause she's foreign, and china a market thats is too isolated to have any major impact outside of its own bubble. She'll be fine lol.
They all ended up fine lol they are the biggest girl group in the world and I doubt something like this would affect them. So many people thought it was over for them but glad they proved them wrong
Haven’t watched the full video yet but girly let me tell ya that forget 2017-18 black pink is STILL absolutely slandered always😭 any video of them has sooo mean comments I’m like what have these girls done to you😭
It's truly sad. It's like they're the only kpop group who you're allowed to hate. So many groups at least get some sympathy from the public but bp? Never gonna happen
I would like to give some perspective about The Idol and why I don't blame Jennie at all for being involved in that project. From my own research and to my knowledge, before Sam Levinson and The Weekend took creative control of the project about 80% of the show was already filmed. Jennie actually originally had a larger role and far more lines. I think Jennie wanted to open a branch to do more creative work in film along with her music and The Idol was suppose to be her big break. Then The Weekend and Sam Levinson scraped the whole show and rewrote it to what we know now as The Idol. Yes, it was originally far more in the female perspective. I am honestly quite disappointed about the hate Jennie is getting because people seem to forget about the existance of contracts. We don't know the type of contract Jennie signed. A lot of actors(not from The Idol, just actors in general) spoke out about how promotion of the show is part of the contract. All I can say is The Idol was suppose to look VERY different than it does now. That was the contract Jennie signed, none of the crew knew that the originally script would be totally rewritten. The script Jennie read before signing her contract to be an actor on the show was completely different and we don't know if she was contractually able to speak out about what happened on set or any grievances she may have. She could be faced with a lawsuit. The tragedy that is The Idol was fully the doing of Sam Levinson and The Weekend. All of the criticism should be aimed at them. The actors did all they could with the script they were given. Edit: Btw, love this video and I fully agree with all you said! I think people need to start treating these women like the adults they are.
I think she only did it for the collab lol. Their song is doing great and it's been like a year now since it's released. However I think I did hear that she knew what the project was even before they changed directors
@@greenthinggg Honestly, I like the song! But...hated The Weekend's part. I can't listen to his part without internally cringing. The Idol is what cemented my distain towards Sam Levinson and The Weekend
thank you. i hate what the weeknd and levinson did to the show. i think if we got the original version from the female perspective, it wouldve actually been good. i feel so bad for jennie honestly
I feel so bad for Lisa when it comes to this. Like goodness, she is grown woman. I aso totally understand why they are trying to become more popular in the west. It just makes sense, it would be stupid not to try. More fame, more money. It's just being smart. Also, maybe they just fucking enjoy it? They have fans all around the world, like dear god let perform wherever they want. They are grown woman and can do what they want and if you don't like it, just don't watch them and spend your free time with idols and groups you like. Seems more like some can't tell the difference between hatred and extreme jealouss, cause damn some of y'all haters spent more time hating your hated idols than enjoying the ones you like. Maybe y'all are just jealous af fans.
One more point I’ve noticed recently is that K-pop fan culture spreading to Muslim countries have brought an entire new fanbase trying to impose their image by emphasizing modesty.
This!!! Though not all muslims I saw some muslim fans being fine with it just not it being their cup of tea for obvious reasons but yeah with a new fanbase it can cause some ruckus in what they thought kpop is
@@taaleyakhan3134 that to me is objectionable because of the sheer arrogance shown by the host culture to morality police its guests that they themselves invited in the first place to perform. It makes no sense to like a cultural presentation and then telling it to act like someone unlike them. I don't think Muslims would return the favor kindly if they were told to be "immodest" by other cultures meanwhile and call it discrimination or something. Muslims need to open their mind to merge with the world instead of othering.
@@RavarsenBlogspot well girly no one is inviting them to perform, they themselves arrange concerts in countries with huge fanbases with the Muslim countries being priority. For example, America does not need to "invite" artists from Korea, they just choose to perform there because of the money generated lol, I don't get your analogy of being arrogant when they are just asking to be respectful
@@RavarsenBlogspot the arrogance actually lies in the minds of people like you who believe you / your faves by extension need to be graced with petals at your feet just because you showed up. If Musliim fans pay out of pocket to watch a performance then the performer being respectful is not too much to ask. And if the performers have such aversion to Muslims / their beliefs they are free to not perform there and not make money. In any case, you are not part of the conversation.
The history of what Blackpink went through from haters would make for a very interesting future video! It would be very educational to the current younger generation of k-pop fans who weren't around in 2018 and think that everything going on right now with their favourite HYBE group (take your pick) is the worst treatment a group has ever had. Because yeeaaaahhhh it was WAY BAD. And every success Blackpink notched for itself ignited a new wave of jealous hatred from fans of other girl groups.
2018 was a horrible year for them and other girl groups. I'm glad I wasn't into kpop in that era but dear lord the stories I hear when it comes to groups like momoland, bp, twice and so on is horrifying. But I honestly think fans have not chnaged, they are still horrible even with the groups from today
What many people don’t understand, you can disagree with things idols do, and even should to a certain degree (don’t just love everything they do and say blindly), without hating on them. As long as it’s not illegal, which being sexy is not, it’s not a problem. It’s not a problem even though you don’t like it.
This!! I adore Jennie but I would never watch the Idol lol. I don't agree with her participation but I'm not gonna spam her ig comments after a year that it happened and make dedicated hate accounts just because she was in the show. Some stans need to understand that
The sad thing is, for Lisa, when she does a dance project, it’s about the dance first. She just explores any dancing and doesn’t see the dances that unfortunately have certain negative images as that negative image. She doesn’t put the prejudice first. If it’s cool to her, it’s cool, and she gonna do it. If it’s amazingly sexy to her, it’s sexy, and she gonna do it. Sexy/sensuality in dancing is not an embarrassment nor lust to her, it’s art, a self-expression. The only no-no area for sexy/sensuality is when it’s exploitation/non-consensual, and I don’t think that’s what happened in her case. So what’s so bad about it? I don’t care about haters, because that’s what they all do, hating. They’ll always be disappointment. But sad, that some fans switch on her or are still “fans” but deny that part of her.
09:00 Yh I've always hate that. Like it fine and no one like says a word if men walk around shirtless (if it's hot and you + orhers are comfortable with it you do you) but if a women or girl wears something that reveals their shoulders even though they are comfortable or their stomach is somehow becomes an issue. Like 💀 it's just a double standard, and it not great how like only a few people point it out and everyone else is just seen as normal. NO, it's not! You definatly can't imo bring someon that's killing it in an outfit that they like (everyone feels uncomfortable) and no one should bring them down for it.
I think it’s bad for Jennie to date because she is not dating me! (jk). I hate people hating on Jennie and Lisa. They are adults so let them do adult things! I did not watch The Idol, but from what I understand (and you mention it as well) it turned into something totally different than what Jennie signed up for. Maybe she should have bowed out, but I don’t fault her for fulfilling her contract for the show. I’ll never watch it, but I don’t hate her for it. As for Lisa, it was my understanding that she didn’t show any ‘naughty’ bits in her performance, but even if she did, it’s her body so she can do what she wants with it. Again, she’s an adult! I must admit I got excited for a second when Natasha said she would whip out a boob, but then I remembered this is RUclips so it would have been blocked anyway. Lol
And this is why you're my favorite ktuber. Your way of explaining things in a respectful maner is what always brings me back here. Thank you for being mature about the situation and not having to resort to shady or deragoratory comments 💕
I will say something that will sound awful to some people but this is just the objective truth: BP get so much hate for the way they dress and some particular dance moves because they are really pretty (they are gorgeous) and Jennie get sl*t shamed because of her beautiful body in the CK campaigns, because of the men she is associated with, because of the fact she does not care anymore; Lisa gets hate for kinda the same reasons. Let's look at some other idols like Hwasa for example (YOU PROBABLY GET PISSED OFF HERE) - the reason she has never got the same amount of hate is because people see her as less attractive meaning as someone they can easily attach to meaning as someone they can look up to and say "She is not ashamed of herself, then I am not to.". And that's a fact. The most beautiful female idols in the industry are punching bags for haters cause haters look at them and understand they will never be as attractive as they are, so they defend themselves by attacking them. Look at even someone like Joy - she received hate because of her beauty, etc., but the moment she gained a little bit of weight people immediately started defending and praising her. Humans feel better when seeing someone else looks and acts on a lower level.
Beautiful women do get an incredible amount of hate I agree. Just look at Wonyoung. She can breathe and that would be enough for people to hate her for. But her other bandmates can do the same and no one would bat an eye
No, I don’t think that’s the reason or otherwise there would be many more. The reason they get so much hate is the result of how they were promoted by YG. In the smaller picture how jennie was always promoted "above" blackpink. In the bigger picture how blackpink was first promoted leaning on 2NE1's name and later on BTS' name. Therefore they were never able to make a name for themselves and never able to fulfill the expectations people had on them, because they’ve never been able to make a reputation for themselves. Their reputation is what others expect from them, not what they ever showed. That’s why there is a discrepancy between what people expect and what they get and as a result, they are always disappointed, because their expectations didn’t come true and therefore resort to hate.
@@greenthinggg once BTS stepped foot in the US, YG promoted Blackpink as the girl group next to BTS. The west used to always have a boy group and a girl group next to each other and promotions wise it was a clever move. Just not a good move for the balckpink members as people
Lisas parents went to the Crazy Horse show. There is no way she was fully nude. She cant even bring herself to twerk in front of her parents. Also, to this day, not a shred of video has been released showing her nude. Im 99% sure she was covered enough. Also, as a dancer, learning burlesque from women known to be masters of their craft must have been a great learning experience for Lisa, that will translate to her personal performances on stage.
i swear there is even a double standard of how kpop stans treat jenlisa compared to other female idols, hwasa was being called confident and empowering for wearing that red suit that showed her butt cheeks at MAMA but when lisa showed hers for one of the born pink concerts you had people saying how this "wasn't kpop anymore", "what about her young fans" or straight up slut shaming her
This!!!! But I heard a lot of her stans say that they can let it pass because Hwasa has always presented in a sexy image but it's like well why can't bp present in that way as well? I'd argue bp was never for kids in the first place so I don't get what's the difference. Let female idols do what they want
Fr another example is 'kiss of life' and 'gidle' they are wearing things doing moves etc etc blackpink can't even think of without getting all other fandom butthurt but k-pop are like 'ohh that's why minors shouldn't debut'. ' they are adults there is nothing wrong in that'. 'kof bringing back 2nd gen' when kof maknae is barely adult but at the same time hating women pushing 30s for showing skin and dressing
For this you will have to study the history of asian women being fetistized in the west from colonial era until now. Being sexual is different than being seen as "geisha" by western gaze. Thats the only roles asian women from asia gets in the west. There is nothing wrong with being sexual but absolutely wrong being sexualized based on race.
Fr!! And then him gassing them all up as 2ne1's replacement when he was treating 2ne1 like trash!! The company shouldn't have made the comparison at ALL because people weren't with it.
@@Springcocomuffin it was all for marketing..I think they all went along with it to grow themselves..it was all part of marketing and PR in shaping the team ..Negative attention is attention too..
tbh i just love seeing the girls having their well-earned freedom and being free to express themselves however they want to. while i cant and dont even want to imagine the weight and impact that all the hate could have on them, i admire them sm for keeping on doing their thing. even tho theyre not my ult group anymore (i gave that title to gidle i 2018 haha) i will forever be attached to be pinks and i hope to see them thriving in the future while doing, wearing and also dating whoever they want ^ ^
The Idol frustrates me so much bc it had potential to be good. The concept of the show is pretty good. You have a female popstar who is having mental health issues and is struggling after the death of her mother. Not only that, but she is the victim of revenge p*rn. Her label is losing faith in her and wants to replace her with someone they deem more capable. That person, being her closes friend who is all over the opportunity. If Sam Levinson and The Weekend weren’t all over it, it would’ve been an amazing show. Jennie’s acting performance was decent, but she has the potential to better. It didn’t help that the script was hot garbage and her character was barely there. I really wish she would’ve chosen a better project to make her debut with. Her idea of her character was really cool and a mourn what the show could’ve been had the kept the original premise. I know she wasn’t casted until after Sam took over, but she would’ve been so good in the first rewrite. With the Crazy Horse thing. I feel that a male idol would’ve also got hate for performing in a show like that. If Jungkook was announced to perform at a cabaret in Vegas, all hell would’ve broke loose. I don’t think it was her dancing in revealing outfits that made people pop a vein, but the fact that she was in a burlesque show. Women who do burlesque are basically viewed as fancy strippers, so in their mind, Lisa became a stripper. This is not me defending the slit shaming and the hate and criticism. This is just to shed light on why the reaction was so extreme. I feel that even sole western celebrities would’ve also gotten the side eye for doing it, but it depends on their image. No one would bat an eye if it were Christina Aguilera or Doja Cat who have sexier images, but if it were Ariana Grande, people would lose their shit.
@@ro-zeea.8734oh yikes, i don't even want to imagine the reaction. jungkook got enough shit even from armies bc of seven's explicit lyrics. glad he didn't give a flying fuck lol
Might be unrelated but the amount of delusion & toxicity in their fandom is unbelievable. Ik the more fans u have the more toxic it gets. But goddamn I've never seen anything so bad in my life. 90% of the time, their fans set them up for hate then later pull victim card. They don't deserve the unnecessary hate for choosing their own ways. But that fandom is just- 💀
Hard on the setting them up. Its mostly the solo stans who do it and it pisses me off because for a fandom so big they are terrible at defending or atleast criticising their idols and I say this as a blink
So true. The main reason why they get hate is their own dxmb fandom. Often when a scandal happens with Lisa/ Jennie they drag other idols in and then fight with their fans nonstop but if it's for streaming for bp they vanish. The main problem is their fandom. Those girls did nothing to deserve these 🗑️ fans. It should be talked about more.
@@naegabyeonnhae so true on the streaming!!!! 😭😭 like why has it taken us so long for ONE of their songs to get 1Billion on spotify? They think RUclips views are everything but no they need to stream harder Lisa's fans are more dedicated than blinks atp
@@greenthinggg One of Lisa's fans we're asking "how to vote for Lisa for Best Actress in upcoming Oscars for white Lotus?" They're delusional asf but the dedication is undeniable- 💀🤌
Toxic fans play a huge role in hating. It's mainly their own solo fans setting them up for hate. Often talking nonsense and dragging other idols in which makes the hate train worse. Fans of those idols get mad and the fight goes on for months nonstop. They're all obsessed with getting views dragging their own faves and others but when it comes to supporting bp they all disappear. It's sad to see that, these girls do not deserve these fans. Yeah the main root cause of the intense hate for them is their own fans.
I think its more about the culture. Im an asian, parents and older generations here believe a women must be respected and must act respectfully. Im not ignoring their personal choices or the sense of "modern thoughts" all im saying is its looked down upon in many if not most asian countries due to their still slightly orthodoxical views
I am asian too. My parents have brains so they don't tell me that i should hate a woman ( fully grown) just for wearing the clothes that she wanted to wear
I agree criticism must exist but what kpop stans do to BP and other female idols it's not criticism it's straight up hates and misogyny. I also didn't like lisa's CH thing, jennie's casting in IDOL, not even revealing clothes. But I understand that's what I like and dislike. I can't force them to do what I like. The one thing I can do is criticize but it should be healthy also. I'm sick of kpop community being double standards. But not surprised when SK is a patriarchy county that can't see women empowerment. I remember how SK govt didn't tell YG that BP got invitation from usa's first lady. They had to give invitation 6 times but that's how it is. Not just kpop stans but this whole freaking govt help male idols to do whatever they can but not female. If not then burning sun's all criminals would be in jail for lifetime but they are enjoying their life now.
Agreed! It's totally fine to not agree with everything they do even I can disagree even though their my favorite group but that doesn't mean I'm going tod dedicate my life into making hate accounts for 1 thing they did
@@greenthinggg exactly. They are my ult group also. But I understand they are not angels from heaven but straight up humans. They can make mistakes that totally fine. But as fans we should acknowledge it and when it's time we should appreciate it. But some people can't acknowledge also some throw hates both are at faults. We won't be at the same page everytime it's okay that's how things work. But people are sitting just to hate them and I'm tired of these people
When the ice cream collab was announced , I remember the Jennie promos also getting lots of hate for the way she was dressed I’m not a blink but even then i thought that people were overlooking things too much 😅
I have a photo of her performance in the thumbnail. Also, artistic nudity doesn't always mean fully nude. People who care about this kind of thing don't care if it's underwear or full nude, it's all the same to them
Reading the title i thought you were gonna talk about how their stans infantilize them constantly to defend their problematic behavior, maybe not Lisa though. I just want you to cover both sides of the same coin😭
Ah! Yes that's a topic I'd love to talk about. I'm writing that one down, I think it would be good to call out toxic stan culture in general because it's so bad in regards to kpop
@@marieLuvs-y9n I said that because she's not really that problematic I feel like people even before everything demonized her a lot because she's Thai. I know these are incredibly privileged celebrities but the racism is affecting the viewers too not just the idol.
@@rainbowsubs2thank you. Its sad how some people dont realize Lisa herself isnt even that problematic its just that people just are haters and dont like her. 😭🙏🏾
K-pop fans are so prudish. Obviously if it was like your religion then that make sense (but don’t spread hate those are your views & your religion). However sometimes I just feel like it’s because they have fully into the misogynistic and conservative K-pop culture. A lot of newer K-pop fans are also quite young like I’ve seen a 10-year-old K-pop fan before on the Internet, hating on other groups. So I don’t think they understand this anymore then from the view of the clean innocent idol. and for some reason, K-pop fans also have the tendency to infantilize idols, like their babies, which is weird because most of these fans are younger than said idol, especially when it comes to 3rd-4th gen idol. For example, like if you find a video of a K-pop idol wearing a short dress and she’s pulling it down (which is normal if you’re wearing a short dress, even if you’re not uncomfortable) or wearing shorts and not giving 100 into her performance then they’re gonna be like “ I can’t believe they’re making -idol- reveal so much skin🥺” and then the idol turns out to be 100% OK with it or in fact likes it. Especially on stage because I dance K-pop, it is not easy and long clothes and even if there’s not a lot of stage lights, it’s still quite hot from all the moving. I feel like sometimes fans give the idols the same values they have and pretend like the idol is only comfortable with the things they are comfortable with. But regardless, why is it only OK when men do it like obviously they get hate for it but they don’t get as much not saying they deserve it if they’re adults go for it
Also, I would like to add that this can go for sexy concepts, which while there may be a problem, having a concept, doesn’t make that inherent problem. it irritates me, especially when new fans “ I miss old K-pop back when they weren’t trying to be so western and sexual” because I have seen that comment before and I’m like you wouldn’t survive a day in the second generation when I say new I mean, particularly 5th maybe 4th. But either way I feel like K-pop fans treat sexuality as a purely western idea which is not true at all that make sense that sounds weird. BTW The reason I brought this is cause like I was thinking about KIOF who’s like person I don’t know what exactly they are. I think they might be either the CEO or creative Director as well as the group themselves confirmed that they talk about what kind of concepts they want to go with and what they’re comfortable with. Yet fans wants to still have the debate about whether or not it’s against their will personally I feel like K-pop fans only say something is against idols will when it’s either 1 obvious or 2 just not something the fans would do or agree with.
I've actually been there, I've seen show 4. For me this is absolutely no surprise: Crazy Horse Paris actually wants you to come and see for yourself, so yes they do not let anybody record (even at normal shows without Lisa). You have to get your mobile phone locked up and you are instantly kicked to the curb if they see suspicious activity. EDIT: Plus, Lisa did regular Crazy Horse show parts (although not topless or otherwise exposed), so that makes releasing it even more impossible.
Great video! :) I'd love you to make an actual full video about all the double standards between male and female kpop idols, it's still such a huge issue and I think you're able to talk about serious topics really well. Just a recent example - the kpop community made excuses and didn't give two fs that Exo's Baekhyun vaped indoors illegally while they tried cancelling Jennie for the same thing and painting her as the worst criminal of South Korea. Other examples: Your mentioned explicit outfits and choreos, male idols getting called cute when they're clumsy, dramatic or confident while female idols get called pick me's, male idols getting praised for working with underwear brands while female idols getting s shamed, people not caring if there are "dozens" in a boy group as long as they're handsome while picking on female "dozen" idols, same with no one caring when boy groups lip sync while it's the end of the world when a girl group does it, when male idols have low energy they are pitied and must be so tired while female idols are called lazy, when boy group members joke around and bicker with each other they're called funny while female idols get accused of bvllying each other etc...
@@rainbowsubs2 I'm not making things up? His agency literally posted an apology statement so check that out if you don't believe me. He was vaping indoors when he was in Macau and it's prohibited to do that over there. Like with Jennie when she was in Italy. But only one of them got huge backlash for it... And don't act like Exo is some kind of nugu group, they're still one of the biggest kpop boy groups and especially Baekhyun as a successful solo artist himself. The backlash doesn't have to do with their popularity but withtheir gender and if you don't get that then I can't help you. + I only used this as ONE example for my comment.
@@VideosForYou90 oh okay sorry well I don't follow the guy I didn't know. But my point still stands, Exo isn't even close to being as famous as BLACKPINK obviously not that many people would give that guy attention.
to be fair they were promoted as girl crush and did sexual dances since boombaya (debut) so it wasn't anything new . i didn't mind it before and not even now but the clothes coupled with that move was off no matter what others say. the clothes in the last tour were off for me. sometimes they looked uncomfortable . before, they wore short shorts and mini skirt and the look gorgeous but in some of the tour oufits were quite questionable. some shorts looks like underwear and i'm not a fan of seeing buttcheeks . for the idol jenny signed up for a different show skript and the weekend showed up after and the director changed. so it was a wrong move for her but it wasn't planned. i think lisa chose to perform at the crazy horse to break that image all toegether and it gave her the freedom she needed for later.' i respect their choices but i don't have to be a fan of it . and don' need to complain i just don't watch
Momo, from Twice, does a pole dance as well. Its not very good but she does it. Honestly, Lisas pole dance is very basic as well. Hopefully the girls at Crazy Horse gave her some training in that area.
I agree with the other stuff but criticism and her the idol are a little justified.she was not part of the original cast so her role and the weekend are now connected than people wish to admit
Feminism has became market for kpop industry as well as Hollywood too Jennie do get hate for dating scandals because her fans are always ready to fork their nose on someone's business
It was only until blackpink started doing stuff like swalla by lisa cover and jennie wearing short clothes and featuring in idol... that other conventional kpop idols could twerk actively on stage, like kiof, twice, gidle, le sserafim... they all mainstreamed...and their twerking was appreciated...as a dance form...but blackpink i remember were extremely hated and slutshamed... yes it's true mamamoo also did it, but their fans are not the conventional korean people who are in the majority... so their interventions had little contribution...even before that jessi, CL did it...but they were considered non mainstream so it didn't matter.... but thanks to bp all these artists can get away and not get hate...another, example is introduction to fashion brands going to shows... bp were shaded heavily, but now that all artists are doing it ppl only sing praises for walking ramps and being brand ambassadors....so in one way bp paved the way.... by getting extreme hate for something and then letting people have it easier...
As if (G)I-DLE needed BP. I'm sorry, but since when has BP actually dared to make statements against the industry? Where were lyrics critizing the industry when Lisa released 'Rockstar'? I'm sorry, but BLACKPINK has never tried to act like they were feminists, so they shouldn't be credited for other groups actually doing feminist stuff. It's Soojin and the way she was treated, why (G)I-DLE is doing what they do now and its delusional to think otherwise.
Not wanting to see female artists being oversexualized is not misogyny. Also, if u need mobility so much on stage, why wear high heels? 5 min in and u're not making any sense.
@@kanakanaa. Female idols choose nothing. The company who owns their contracts makes the choices. Companies exploiting female artists is misogynistic. If u don't know this, u know nothing about k-pop.
You're not listening to me. That's why I'm not making sense. I said that people initially hated blackpink in their early days because of misogyny. Because they were a 'threat' to their fantasy about male idols.I didn't say that not liking sexualisation of women is misogynistic. idk how you got there. Also, blackpink doesn't really wear heels? Some female idols do, but this video is about blackpink. I also mentioned multiple times that people dislike sexualisation for a multitude of reasons, I pinned the double standard between men and women as misogny. But i also understand that their are other perspectives.
i dont see how they've changed anything either. in fact i keep seeing fans giving them credits for doing something revolutionary but... i dont see it. someone point it out to me please.
I feel like the level of explicity a celebrity should exhibit depends on the target audience. If the majority of a celebrity's fan are underaged, then i think there's a responsibility to act a certain way, like how youtubers whose target audience are children shouldn't record themselves smoking and posting it like it's cool. I feel like kpop's target audience are usually the younger crowd, but I'm not too familiar with blackpink or Lisa's scandal so I don't really have an opinion on whether what she did is appropriate or not.
It's hard to say because bp has a wide audience that can range from children to adults so idk but then again why on earth would a parent let their child watch something explicit?
Exactly. Although people can grow and want to change their target audience the current one is what matters. But blackpink doesnt target to children btw its just that kids tend to watch them but that isn’t necessarily their fault since they didn’t intentionally target to them.
I don't think most people are infantalizing the BP girls but are rather pointing out how they are a girlgroup who's music was literally used in children's movies and a considerable part of their fanbase are young girls! Changing the industry? No, they are rather spreading the American idea of having a child-friendly fanbase whilst actively being bad rolemodels for the children in their fanbase. Whist plenty of K-POP groups have children in the fanbase, they are often an obvious minority, but not with BLACKPINK. One of their Amsterdam concerts did not get coverage by the regular news channel but it did from the children's newschannel ZAPP. I am getting rather tired of you older Blinks pretending like there isn't a huge portion of tweens in the fandom and that the girls are being extremely inappropriate when you take them into consideration. That is exactly why other girl groups don't get the same flock as most have way less children in their fanbase and are targeting older teens/young adults. Stop twisting the facts. Where are MAMAMOO's songs being used in Dreamworks movies? Where are the (G)I-DLE songs? They're not there, as they don't target children with their music. We have every right to call someone out when their music is being marketed towards children and then they do stuff like The Idol and Crazy Horse. You cannot have it both ways. As someone trying to enter the children's media, I find it apalling and it's amongst the reasons why I left the Blink fandom as I remember seeing Lisa's 'Swalla' dance and being like, 'But there are so many kids in the fandom. What kind of Miley Cyrus early 2010s behavior is this?!' (no offense to Miley, Disney stars have it real bad which is why most of them act out after they get 'released', but BP was already doing that stuff whilst STILL promoting their music with children's movies. And if they were against YG signing their music off to children's movies then either they should have taken a stance that they weren't okay with YG doing that or they should have been graceful and not do these things for the sake of those kids. Even after their contract expired, they didn't take a stance on their music getting promoted to children so they deserve the blame as much as YG)
@@inferiorinferno8859 Artist aren't resposible for what children see. Crazy horse was a private event, the Idol was explicitly stated as an 18+ show. This is the Olivia Rodrigo concert all over again. Parents can see the clips of them online and they can choose wether or not they want to send their kids to their concerts. Bp fandom as a whole has a variety of age ranged and I really don't see them as kid friendly since the START of their carrer.
There is another issue with this infantilisation is undoubtably the double standard. Because sooooo many people that (correctly) defend these women doing this because they are adults but then also turn around and try and claim in cases of racism and sexism that these idols don't know any better. Like if they are adults (particularly 25+ idols) they should also not be treated like children when they do something problematic (like Jennie in The Idol) do I think people over do it with this kind of criticism, yes they do, but the double standard of when and when not to treat idols like adults actually frustrates me.
Here are my thoughts: So, starting with Lisa, I actually don't have anything to say about the way she dresses since we clearly have different values, like you said and what matters most to be when I consume content from her is her music / stage presence and as it happens I absolutely love her new music, I feel like it showcases Lisa's artistic style so well and just the quality of her newer music is so genuinely good that it makes me wonder how she was ever okay with releasing hot garbage such as money / lalisa (like the only explanation I can come up with is that these two were the least worst picks since teddy can't produce for sh!t). Oh and I almost forgot to mention, she has absolutely never missed in the stage presence and consistency department which is respectable since I'm sure she has her off days too. For jennie, I'll be honest, I don't care about her outfits either but certain choices she's made has really put me off from her. Like I said, as a fan what matters most to me is the quality of music and performances, which had considerably declined ever since born pink. And I know blinks like to say oh they were underprepared and they improved later on but as a viewer and someone who got into bp in 2017 solely because of the quality of their performances, I was repeatedly dissatisfied. Besides, aren't you supposed to improve based on your last best performance rather than your last worst one? Or is that just me? The only thing jennie was consistent in was her disinterest in the stage and although I cannot confirm that that was actually what was happening, that's the impression I got as a viewer and as a fan. And yes back then I loved watching fancams from every concert so I'm not saying this based on 2 or 3 performances. Then, ofc the cherry on top was the idol. Like, the culmination of all of this plus her hanging out with alexander wang even after his controversy made me lose all of my respect for her as an artist and as a person. I never hated on her (literally why would you waste energy on someone you don't even like) but yeah it made me unstan bp after years of them being my female ults.
meh, if korean people don't want their culture in this case KPOP, to be sexsualized then who are we to tell them they should change? what's wrong with being modest?
Well it's not like Jennie isn't korean? Jennie has more right to decide how she wants to portray herself, after all blackpink have done for the kpop industry and by proxy the Korean economy. Nothing wrong with being modest, but there's also nothing wrong with not being modest if one chooses to
You’re so right, they kinda sexualise everything. K-pop used to be very nice and open for everyone or watch. Male idols did dominate but female idols didn’t. I’m also happy for them and female idols used to work their ass off and having fun too. The K-pop stage started being very sexual from the 2nd gen. And it kinda calmed down in the 3rd part but now you see overly sexualised younger girls like new jeans and their song cookie, eunchae and the choreo, bp at coachella and don’t even get me started on kiss of life. Yes these idols are old and get to do whatever but it was kinda sad to see how bp changed at coachella like ik y’all are grown women but that dramatic change left a mark on the K-pop industry
........ feeding their babies? Milk? It's literally not sexual we've just been socialized that way. When women can't even feed their own infants in public because weirdos think it's a sexual body part...... like yes, it's not related to sexuality
we like kpop not western artist and personalities so of course people complain kiss of life wear revealing clothes are sexy unfiltered and talk about boys but everyone loves them cuz theyre still kpop xg blackswan lisa isnt kpop theres no kpop production flair no korean etc. same with katseye we're kpop fans its fine if u like those artist but me as a kpop fan doesent cuz i like kpop and korean culture more than western culture kiof are a perfect mix of both without doing too much if we wanted western music we would follow them not kpop some fans just listen to kpop xg is a perfect example of doing it completely wrong when they debuted the first 3 releases or so up to left right shppting star they were mixing it perfectly then for some reason they went down this weird western creepy gaga path where they destroyed any image thats attractive destroyed the music we enjoyed and got weird with their mvs and stopped releasing content as well
@@Natasha.Louisee you're channel actually seems like one of the few real and honest Kpop related channels. If I haven't already, I'll make sure to subscribe
I just think blandpink is the lamest/most hyped/most over rated G G of my lifetime, I don't think they are that great, but people will lock onto anything, Why are other G G's trying to be on the same lame level they need to be like a winner, NEW JEANS Rose up above that lameness/hype/blandness and became " BILLBOARD MAGAZINE's GROUP OF THE YEAR " with music/dance, even Billboard thought that Lisa's performance at the VMA's was Awful - If BILLBOARD calls it awful, AND THEY KNOW MUSIC, its has to be awful
@@Analou13 but they don't paint themselves as global group or non kpop group while doing all the things kpop. Unlike katseye. Also, those who sing in English still maintain and respect Korean culture because they deem themselves as kpop gorup while katseye tries stir away from all of that whilst ripping away the benefits
It’s not what they wear, it is the weird aggressive facial expressions that put people off. I’ve seen girl with less dress performing while being adored because of performing them with class and grace.
Then don’t watch them? They’re performing to their own songs and have to be extra aggressive due to their image? How about male idols expressions? They look ridiculous sometimes as well cough taehyung cough nct cough stray kids cough jyp cough big bang
It's a performance. If your facial expression doesn't match your body movement it just doesn't match or go well. Is like me saying to you I don't like that "sad/somber scene because everyone is smiling." Men do it all the time on stage bumping and grinding. It's a double standard.
@@monoceros.9310😅 I see what you did there...I would also add EXO to that list oh and Jay Park. Although Jay is just a bad boy and us girls know it. 😂
@@monoceros.9310these people act like they have been held at gunpoint to watch them😂😂😂 Like they are justifying sl#tshaming cuz of facial expressions they don't like..... such weirdos
@@monoceros.9310 the point you’re missing out is nobody paying to watch Aespa to grind like lil nasx nor want bts to twerk it like cardi b. There is a certain image and expectation of class and grace that is expected from K-pop that many fans view is as the only differentiation stronghold left against “distasteful “or “unsophisticated” presentation of culture in current pop culture stars in the west. K-pop is where people at the least expect men to be masculine and female to be beautifully feminine. That subconscious and often vocal desire often leads to the objections.
![[5.1] Phlogiston and the Abyss - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z2p0gV-5J4Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Not in the sexualization sense, but I see this a lot with the reaction to XG. They have a really different and unique style with these latest releases and I've seen many hate on them for being 'too much', 'scary' or 'messy'. I think many people want idols to be different and unique, but not too different where they aren't perfect it girls or conventionally pretty.
I forgot the name of the group but they had like a punk or rock concept? One of the members had spiky red hair and people were leaving such nasty comments about it
@@emptyteardrops Dxmon?
i love this about them, when they go there they GO THERE and it reminds me of 2ne1
I love XG for many reasons and specially this✨ they’re here to break boundaries, when they said they’re unique and crazy they really meant it! The double standard of people when they react to a boy group wearing freaky clothes and a girl group is so infuriating
And this is why I love them
As a fan of (mostly) girl groups and (a few) boy groups, it always gave me the ick how some kpop stans talk down on female idols when they choose to be sexual or mature of their own accord and then praise male idols for being sexual and even expect them to be revealing when they do not want to (i.e. Mark from NCT getting uncomfortable about showing his abs)
And also, when a female idol shows a mature image, many of their fans call her fake, while I’ve never seen nobody saying a male idol he has a fake body
@@1Uni7 True, the double standards are ridiculous
Being sensual for men and women aren't the same..
Men biologically and psychologically got the upper hand in this regard..
In sexual market, male are the buyers and women are the sellers..
@donttalktome365days I never said it was the same. I agree that women are always at a disadvantage in this. There are clear different expectations for men and women when it comes to sexuality and it's not only in kpop, but in society as a whole, of course. While men like to sexualize women, they also expect them to "stay pure" and criticize the ones that choose to embrace their sexuality. Due to some internalized misogyny, some women also criticize those who choose to present a more mature image. While there is no win for women in this situation, what I also notice and don't agree with is that in kpop, both men and women, and even worse girls and boys, are often sexualized against their will. And of course, I also don't agree with the demonization of women who are comfortable with their sexuality, while men are never criticized for it
The crazy horse.. drama? What do you call it? Scandal? Whatever it is. It makes me so mad that Blinks are heavily spreading misinformation about what is Crazy Horse. Saying that Lisa is at a strip club or something. Some k-pop fans don't know how to do research and just adds fuel to the fire, having other people take their words like it's true without RESEARCH! Lisa is a grown woman, she can do what she wants, respect that.
Why on gods good earth would it be BLINKS saying its a strip club?
Don't blame everything on blink it's mostly other kpopies especially army and once
Okay but why would blinks say that? R u sure they were BLINKS? And not armys? Or kpoppies in general? (Kinda hard to tell now though since blinks and armys are pretending to be each other fandoms 😭🙏🏾)
@@Analou13 fr people blame blink when other idols are hated and they still blame blink when blackpink is hated they blame blink for everything i swear one day they will blame for earthquake
I think Lisa and jungkook are very similar in the way fans perceived them especially at first. Throughout the real real golden days of kpop which was 2017-2018 when bts were like the biggest thing in the world and other kpop groups like blackpink and twice were also introducing themselves to such a wide audience. I feel like the members that tend to catch people's attentions are Lisa and Jungkook. They're both the maknaes. Maknae=cute clueless baby. K. And now they both broke out of these images in the last 2-3 years. It just pains me seeing how well the public accepted jungkook's transition yet bashed and slutshamed Lisa constantly & constantly for hers. It's so misogynistic because everything about the way the public perceived both was so similar up until now. And it's done by other woman!!!
Jungkook got a lot of hate from other fandoms too, let's not ignore that but Lisa's went on for months non stop. Both do not deserve the hate for expressing themselves.
@@Bloom_Jiya yes i do realize that but it did not damage his career as much as Lisa's.
@@seulgislove Damaging someone's career often results in difficulties for the person to continue progressing in their field or maintaining their professional status. Lisa's having none of that, I assume. She's still relevant and popular. "Damage" is a strong word. Sadly, most of the time this hate is caused by their own solo stans dragging others in this mess which can result in the ongoing situation onto months of nonstop bullying back & forth.
@@Bloom_Jiyabut comparing to Jk. Lisa got more hate rather than praise.
@@Ajit-Ayansh Would recommend to put yo glasses and read cuz wtf- JK did get hate let's not ignore that. Lisa got more hate, who's denying that? The person who commented this compared JK and Lisa not me. Don't start issues that never existed 👀
What gets me about Lisa and Jennies hate train for being called such horrible things is that I saw it in brazilian and spanish communities as well, and they still have these massive hate communities in porteguese and spanish for something that is so normalized around them and they probably also done like?????
not sure from where you're from but i'm brazilian. i know brazil's stereotypes but i don't think normalized its the correct word. people have a view that in brazil being sexy or anything related to it its super normal but there are huge conservative communities here. our appeal to foreign countries with artists such as anitta isn't really applied. ofc it depends on the region, brazil has 215 million people, but most hate how brazil is portraited. i do get what you're saying but it does make sense why communities here hate it, brazil is getting more conservative and misogynistic each day. living in latam, i do think that applies to other countries as well.
@@eloxoxo222 I'm also Brazilian from Bahia. I think I may have worded my thoughts incorrectly but when I say normalised, most of the short type of clothes they were and are shamed for is something we see everyday and the dances even though not liked by a lot is something that has become part of Brazil and latam and is very common to see so I don't know why they are hated THAT MUCH for these reasons. A lot of the kpop stans I met here that hate them are women as well, I do understand that maybe it is internalised misogyny or the point that Natasha made that they are delulu and think that it lowers their chances with their biases, but the point I was trying to make is that even though I can see some minor reasons for some haters my brain can't really understand the big community of just haters in latam+, at least from where I stand.
I also saw plenty of videos of them on Indian channels that garnered millions of views
Idk what's with the foreign countries
Regarding Lisas appearance in Crazy Horse Paris I can shed some light on it: I've had the opportunity to attend show 4, so I can give a first-hand account, I've actually been there, I've actually sat in the audience: While the usual Crazy Horse show contains topless dancers, Lisa always(!) wore lingerie or a swimsuit. At no time you could see anything deemed inappropriate. She had so much fun, she's been bubbly. And especially with "Crisis? What Crisis!" she absolutely captivated the audience with her portraial of conflicting emotions. Speaking of the audience (bc there's so much misinformation floating around): It's been about 60% women, average age maybe late twenties / early thirties.
I’m not a Stan of any group, but Lisa is someone who caught my attention when I saw BP for the first time, she has this aura that makes you admire her for many reasons and I’m so glad she’s doing her Solo endeavors right now.
LMAO the people who say “omg kpop is becoming westernized 😢” to female idols being sexy wouldn’t survive 2nd gen
Edit: I’m surprised this wasn’t mentioned but Lisa was banned from Chinese social media platforms because people kept mass reporting her account. She didn’t anything regarding Crazy Horse on there either.
So real, as a kpop fan since late 2nd gen if those new 4th/5th gen kpop fans find out that there was a 3rd gen girl group that had extremely sexy concepts and preformed with revealing outfits, AND also had lingerie and sexy cosplay photoshoots in the side, lmfao they would have died 😭 (don’t worry they are all adults and have been lingurie “models” before debut) LMFAO NGL WHEN I FOUND OUT I WAS A LITTLE SHOCKED, BUT OH WELL GET THAT BAG YASSSSS
Those who mass reported are fans from other fandoms.
there's also the argument to pose that kpop has always been westernized: just take a look at the very first k-pop groups and you can draw parallels to american artists that both preceded them and also existed alongside these idols in their visual branding and music, not to mention the fact that kpop music has always incorporated english into their lyrics. while i agree global appeal has become even more important in kpop nowadays, kpop has always been westernized to some extent and this really shouldn't be that shocking to fans.
LMAO FR that always frustrated me because kpop literally wouldn't exist without the west or Jpop for that matter so what are they talking about?
omg i would love to see you do a video analysis/deep dive on double standards in kpop because hooolyyy this is something we really need to be more vocal about. i remember when i discovered the double standards as a newbie kpop fan years ago, my jaw was on the gound cuz it was so ridiculous
Yes, she needs to talk about that
Yes agreed! I hate that some kpop stans want to shove it under the rug and want to believe that kpop doesn't have a sexism problem but oh they do and they're very vocal about it
@@greenthinggg yes exactly!! also the fact that thirsting over female idols is considered gross but thirsting over male idols (sometimes MINORS too like??) is somehow okay? like it isnt just sexism, it’s so much more and overall it’s all just EW
the Idol was just a BAD show period..was not good at all...Jennie was the only reason it got any views. She is beautiful and talented and was the only thing about the Idol that was any good at all.
I agree but on the other hand I saw more people hating on the skimpy outfits she wore rather than the bigger problem which is how awful the show was and that didn't sit righ with me. There was almost no naunce when it came to the situation, it was either extreme praise, extreme sl*tshaming and nothing in between
@@greenthinggg agree 100&
jennie gave them a good chunk of viewers but dont get delusional, the show would've made noise either way because of the weekend, lily and sam, and other co-stars like troye. in fact if you look at the genuine criticism of it, jennie is barely mentioned anywhere because her character was completely irrelevant. a chunk of her fans/ kpop stans watching it for her is actually one of the things to criticize her for. all in all tho, its sadly nothing new that stans cant understand nuance. then again, i think this goes for most people, even here.
back when the show dropped, i had genuine criticism, but ofc her fans dont want to hear anything negative about her, or just lump the criticism together with hate comments. not to be a downer, but i dont think stans will ever change this behavior.
@@greenthinggg to add onto that, i agree a lot of people just focused on the outfits, but i think those comments werent all hateful or irrelevant either. in the context of the show and its awful message, the clothes are relevant because they mirror those messages. the show became what it wanted to satirize. if they wanted to satirize the hypersexuality forced upon women/popstars, you dont do that by just actually hypersexualizing them, without discussing it further. you cant just make a sexist show and then claim its fine because it satire, because at the end of it there is 0 satire, and just 100% sexism lol. i hope my point got across, sorry for rambling.
I dont think lisas image sufferd all that much after crazy horse cause the main backlash came from kpop stans that already didnt like her, south korea where she was never supported cause she's foreign, and china a market thats is too isolated to have any major impact outside of its own bubble. She'll be fine lol.
They all ended up fine lol they are the biggest girl group in the world and I doubt something like this would affect them. So many people thought it was over for them but glad they proved them wrong
The people who get it get fr glad you sound better and hope you're feeling well!❤
Thank you my love~ I'm feeling much better 🎀🩷
Haven’t watched the full video yet but girly let me tell ya that forget 2017-18 black pink is STILL absolutely slandered always😭 any video of them has sooo mean comments I’m like what have these girls done to you😭
It's truly sad. It's like they're the only kpop group who you're allowed to hate. So many groups at least get some sympathy from the public but bp? Never gonna happen
Fr whole k-pop fandom (except carat and tueme) just team up and bash blackpink especially jenlisa and if blink say anything they are tOxIc
I agree with you, As a four year old ARMY & BLINK i don't know what happened in 2017-18 i became both in 2020.
Oh my goodness 😱
I would like to give some perspective about The Idol and why I don't blame Jennie at all for being involved in that project. From my own research and to my knowledge, before Sam Levinson and The Weekend took creative control of the project about 80% of the show was already filmed. Jennie actually originally had a larger role and far more lines. I think Jennie wanted to open a branch to do more creative work in film along with her music and The Idol was suppose to be her big break. Then The Weekend and Sam Levinson scraped the whole show and rewrote it to what we know now as The Idol. Yes, it was originally far more in the female perspective. I am honestly quite disappointed about the hate Jennie is getting because people seem to forget about the existance of contracts. We don't know the type of contract Jennie signed. A lot of actors(not from The Idol, just actors in general) spoke out about how promotion of the show is part of the contract. All I can say is The Idol was suppose to look VERY different than it does now. That was the contract Jennie signed, none of the crew knew that the originally script would be totally rewritten. The script Jennie read before signing her contract to be an actor on the show was completely different and we don't know if she was contractually able to speak out about what happened on set or any grievances she may have. She could be faced with a lawsuit. The tragedy that is The Idol was fully the doing of Sam Levinson and The Weekend. All of the criticism should be aimed at them. The actors did all they could with the script they were given.
Edit: Btw, love this video and I fully agree with all you said! I think people need to start treating these women like the adults they are.
I think she only did it for the collab lol. Their song is doing great and it's been like a year now since it's released. However I think I did hear that she knew what the project was even before they changed directors
@@greenthinggg Honestly, I like the song! But...hated The Weekend's part. I can't listen to his part without internally cringing. The Idol is what cemented my distain towards Sam Levinson and The Weekend
thank you. i hate what the weeknd and levinson did to the show. i think if we got the original version from the female perspective, it wouldve actually been good. i feel so bad for jennie honestly
I feel so bad for Lisa when it comes to this. Like goodness, she is grown woman. I aso totally understand why they are trying to become more popular in the west. It just makes sense, it would be stupid not to try. More fame, more money. It's just being smart. Also, maybe they just fucking enjoy it? They have fans all around the world, like dear god let perform wherever they want. They are grown woman and can do what they want and if you don't like it, just don't watch them and spend your free time with idols and groups you like. Seems more like some can't tell the difference between hatred and extreme jealouss, cause damn some of y'all haters spent more time hating your hated idols than enjoying the ones you like. Maybe y'all are just jealous af fans.
One more point I’ve noticed recently is that K-pop fan culture spreading to Muslim countries have brought an entire new fanbase trying to impose their image by emphasizing modesty.
This!!! Though not all muslims I saw some muslim fans being fine with it just not it being their cup of tea for obvious reasons but yeah with a new fanbase it can cause some ruckus in what they thought kpop is
@@RavarsenBlogspot they only emphasize modesty when idols perform in their country
@@taaleyakhan3134 that to me is objectionable because of the sheer arrogance shown by the host culture to morality police its guests that they themselves invited in the first place to perform. It makes no sense to like a cultural presentation and then telling it to act like someone unlike them. I don't think Muslims would return the favor kindly if they were told to be "immodest" by other cultures meanwhile and call it discrimination or something. Muslims need to open their mind to merge with the world instead of othering.
@@RavarsenBlogspot well girly no one is inviting them to perform, they themselves arrange concerts in countries with huge fanbases with the Muslim countries being priority. For example, America does not need to "invite" artists from Korea, they just choose to perform there because of the money generated lol, I don't get your analogy of being arrogant when they are just asking to be respectful
@@RavarsenBlogspot the arrogance actually lies in the minds of people like you who believe you / your faves by extension need to be graced with petals at your feet just because you showed up. If Musliim fans pay out of pocket to watch a performance then the performer being respectful is not too much to ask. And if the performers have such aversion to Muslims / their beliefs they are free to not perform there and not make money. In any case, you are not part of the conversation.
The history of what Blackpink went through from haters would make for a very interesting future video! It would be very educational to the current younger generation of k-pop fans who weren't around in 2018 and think that everything going on right now with their favourite HYBE group (take your pick) is the worst treatment a group has ever had.
Because yeeaaaahhhh it was WAY BAD. And every success Blackpink notched for itself ignited a new wave of jealous hatred from fans of other girl groups.
2018 was a horrible year for them and other girl groups. I'm glad I wasn't into kpop in that era but dear lord the stories I hear when it comes to groups like momoland, bp, twice and so on is horrifying. But I honestly think fans have not chnaged, they are still horrible even with the groups from today
@@warren_r i think the RUclipsr Mera has covered Jennie's hate train so well, you should check it out
What many people don’t understand, you can disagree with things idols do, and even should to a certain degree (don’t just love everything they do and say blindly), without hating on them. As long as it’s not illegal, which being sexy is not, it’s not a problem. It’s not a problem even though you don’t like it.
This!! I adore Jennie but I would never watch the Idol lol. I don't agree with her participation but I'm not gonna spam her ig comments after a year that it happened and make dedicated hate accounts just because she was in the show. Some stans need to understand that
@@greenthinggg I agree with every single letter 🤝🏻
The sad thing is, for Lisa, when she does a dance project, it’s about the dance first. She just explores any dancing and doesn’t see the dances that unfortunately have certain negative images as that negative image. She doesn’t put the prejudice first. If it’s cool to her, it’s cool, and she gonna do it. If it’s amazingly sexy to her, it’s sexy, and she gonna do it. Sexy/sensuality in dancing is not an embarrassment nor lust to her, it’s art, a self-expression.
The only no-no area for sexy/sensuality is when it’s exploitation/non-consensual, and I don’t think that’s what happened in her case. So what’s so bad about it?
I don’t care about haters, because that’s what they all do, hating. They’ll always be disappointment. But sad, that some fans switch on her or are still “fans” but deny that part of her.
09:00 Yh I've always hate that. Like it fine and no one like says a word if men walk around shirtless (if it's hot and you + orhers are comfortable with it you do you) but if a women or girl wears something that reveals their shoulders even though they are comfortable or their stomach is somehow becomes an issue. Like 💀 it's just a double standard, and it not great how like only a few people point it out and everyone else is just seen as normal. NO, it's not! You definatly can't imo bring someon that's killing it in an outfit that they like (everyone feels uncomfortable) and no one should bring them down for it.
I think it’s bad for Jennie to date because she is not dating me! (jk). I hate people hating on Jennie and Lisa. They are adults so let them do adult things! I did not watch The Idol, but from what I understand (and you mention it as well) it turned into something totally different than what Jennie signed up for. Maybe she should have bowed out, but I don’t fault her for fulfilling her contract for the show. I’ll never watch it, but I don’t hate her for it. As for Lisa, it was my understanding that she didn’t show any ‘naughty’ bits in her performance, but even if she did, it’s her body so she can do what she wants with it. Again, she’s an adult! I must admit I got excited for a second when Natasha said she would whip out a boob, but then I remembered this is RUclips so it would have been blocked anyway. Lol
So real on that first sentence
The first sentence 😔😔
My wife is cheating on me
@@Lalisa-manoBANGS-arestable😂
And this is why you're my favorite ktuber. Your way of explaining things in a respectful maner is what always brings me back here. Thank you for being mature about the situation and not having to resort to shady or deragoratory comments 💕
You are so beautiful, you're the sparkliest person I've ever seen. And the content keeps getting better and better
Aw thank you~ that's a really kind thing to say 🎀❤️
I will say something that will sound awful to some people but this is just the objective truth: BP get so much hate for the way they dress and some particular dance moves because they are really pretty (they are gorgeous) and Jennie get sl*t shamed because of her beautiful body in the CK campaigns, because of the men she is associated with, because of the fact she does not care anymore; Lisa gets hate for kinda the same reasons. Let's look at some other idols like Hwasa for example (YOU PROBABLY GET PISSED OFF HERE) - the reason she has never got the same amount of hate is because people see her as less attractive meaning as someone they can easily attach to meaning as someone they can look up to and say "She is not ashamed of herself, then I am not to.". And that's a fact. The most beautiful female idols in the industry are punching bags for haters cause haters look at them and understand they will never be as attractive as they are, so they defend themselves by attacking them. Look at even someone like Joy - she received hate because of her beauty, etc., but the moment she gained a little bit of weight people immediately started defending and praising her. Humans feel better when seeing someone else looks and acts on a lower level.
facts
Beautiful women do get an incredible amount of hate I agree. Just look at Wonyoung. She can breathe and that would be enough for people to hate her for. But her other bandmates can do the same and no one would bat an eye
No, I don’t think that’s the reason or otherwise there would be many more. The reason they get so much hate is the result of how they were promoted by YG. In the smaller picture how jennie was always promoted "above" blackpink. In the bigger picture how blackpink was first promoted leaning on 2NE1's name and later on BTS' name. Therefore they were never able to make a name for themselves and never able to fulfill the expectations people had on them, because they’ve never been able to make a reputation for themselves. Their reputation is what others expect from them, not what they ever showed. That’s why there is a discrepancy between what people expect and what they get and as a result, they are always disappointed, because their expectations didn’t come true and therefore resort to hate.
@@greenthinggg once BTS stepped foot in the US, YG promoted Blackpink as the girl group next to BTS. The west used to always have a boy group and a girl group next to each other and promotions wise it was a clever move. Just not a good move for the balckpink members as people
The way you explain i completely agree and it's true.
Lisas parents went to the Crazy Horse show. There is no way she was fully nude.
She cant even bring herself to twerk in front of her parents.
Also, to this day, not a shred of video has been released showing her nude.
Im 99% sure she was covered enough. Also, as a dancer, learning burlesque from women known to be masters of their craft must have been a great learning experience for Lisa, that will translate to her personal performances on stage.
Fact that who actually went to watch her was 60-70% women and it can be seen that it was blink/lilies since she have vast majority of female fandom
i swear there is even a double standard of how kpop stans treat jenlisa compared to other female idols, hwasa was being called confident and empowering for wearing that red suit that showed her butt cheeks at MAMA but when lisa showed hers for one of the born pink concerts you had people saying how this "wasn't kpop anymore", "what about her young fans" or straight up slut shaming her
This!!!! But I heard a lot of her stans say that they can let it pass because Hwasa has always presented in a sexy image but it's like well why can't bp present in that way as well? I'd argue bp was never for kids in the first place so I don't get what's the difference. Let female idols do what they want
Fr another example is 'kiss of life' and 'gidle' they are wearing things doing moves etc etc blackpink can't even think of without getting all other fandom butthurt but k-pop are like 'ohh that's why minors shouldn't debut'. ' they are adults there is nothing wrong in that'. 'kof bringing back 2nd gen' when kof maknae is barely adult but at the same time hating women pushing 30s for showing skin and dressing
For this you will have to study the history of asian women being fetistized in the west from colonial era until now. Being sexual is different than being seen as "geisha" by western gaze. Thats the only roles asian women from asia gets in the west. There is nothing wrong with being sexual but absolutely wrong being sexualized based on race.
Oo yes I agree
IDK WHO YOU ARE BUT DAMN YOU ARE SO UNDERSTANDING AND CLEAR
IM STANNING YOU FROM NOW❤
OMG THE QUEEN HAS POSTED!!!!! ❤
Imma keep posting 😏❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Yg started it ..when the comments with them being the pretty version of 2ne1
Fr!! And then him gassing them all up as 2ne1's replacement when he was treating 2ne1 like trash!! The company shouldn't have made the comparison at ALL because people weren't with it.
@@Springcocomuffin it was all for marketing..I think they all went along with it to grow themselves..it was all part of marketing and PR in shaping the team ..Negative attention is attention too..
Yg is awful. To the comparisons to throwing Jennie to the wolf's which garnered her even more hate. Glad all the girl's left
girl you are so beautiful and i love your commentary. Beauty and brains iktr!!!
tbh i just love seeing the girls having their well-earned freedom and being free to express themselves however they want to. while i cant and dont even want to imagine the weight and impact that all the hate could have on them, i admire them sm for keeping on doing their thing. even tho theyre not my ult group anymore (i gave that title to gidle i 2018 haha) i will forever be attached to be pinks and i hope to see them thriving in the future while doing, wearing and also dating whoever they want ^ ^
“It’s not for you. It’s for the gays and the people who get it.” 👏👏👏
The Idol frustrates me so much bc it had potential to be good. The concept of the show is pretty good. You have a female popstar who is having mental health issues and is struggling after the death of her mother. Not only that, but she is the victim of revenge p*rn. Her label is losing faith in her and wants to replace her with someone they deem more capable. That person, being her closes friend who is all over the opportunity. If Sam Levinson and The Weekend weren’t all over it, it would’ve been an amazing show. Jennie’s acting performance was decent, but she has the potential to better. It didn’t help that the script was hot garbage and her character was barely there. I really wish she would’ve chosen a better project to make her debut with. Her idea of her character was really cool and a mourn what the show could’ve been had the kept the original premise. I know she wasn’t casted until after Sam took over, but she would’ve been so good in the first rewrite.
With the Crazy Horse thing. I feel that a male idol would’ve also got hate for performing in a show like that. If Jungkook was announced to perform at a cabaret in Vegas, all hell would’ve broke loose. I don’t think it was her dancing in revealing outfits that made people pop a vein, but the fact that she was in a burlesque show. Women who do burlesque are basically viewed as fancy strippers, so in their mind, Lisa became a stripper.
This is not me defending the slit shaming and the hate and criticism. This is just to shed light on why the reaction was so extreme. I feel that even sole western celebrities would’ve also gotten the side eye for doing it, but it depends on their image. No one would bat an eye if it were Christina Aguilera or Doja Cat who have sexier images, but if it were Ariana Grande, people would lose their shit.
Omg...I can only imagine if JK or Jimin did a chip and Dale show??? 😂😂 or V? Oh my that would break the internet with the comments.
@@ro-zeea.8734oh yikes, i don't even want to imagine the reaction. jungkook got enough shit even from armies bc of seven's explicit lyrics. glad he didn't give a flying fuck lol
two uploads in a row i’m obsessed😛💐
You can't escape me 🎀
Might be unrelated but the amount of delusion & toxicity in their fandom is unbelievable. Ik the more fans u have the more toxic it gets. But goddamn I've never seen anything so bad in my life. 90% of the time, their fans set them up for hate then later pull victim card. They don't deserve the unnecessary hate for choosing their own ways. But that fandom is just- 💀
Hard on the setting them up. Its mostly the solo stans who do it and it pisses me off because for a fandom so big they are terrible at defending or atleast criticising their idols and I say this as a blink
So true. The main reason why they get hate is their own dxmb fandom. Often when a scandal happens with Lisa/ Jennie they drag other idols in and then fight with their fans nonstop but if it's for streaming for bp they vanish. The main problem is their fandom. Those girls did nothing to deserve these 🗑️ fans. It should be talked about more.
@@naegabyeonnhae so true on the streaming!!!! 😭😭 like why has it taken us so long for ONE of their songs to get 1Billion on spotify? They think RUclips views are everything but no they need to stream harder
Lisa's fans are more dedicated than blinks atp
@@greenthinggg One of Lisa's fans we're asking "how to vote for Lisa for Best Actress in upcoming Oscars for white Lotus?" They're delusional asf but the dedication is undeniable- 💀🤌
@@naegabyeonnhae lmao wtf😭 not surprised tbh
HEAVY ON THE STAN GIDLE
Toxic fans play a huge role in hating. It's mainly their own solo fans setting them up for hate. Often talking nonsense and dragging other idols in which makes the hate train worse. Fans of those idols get mad and the fight goes on for months nonstop. They're all obsessed with getting views dragging their own faves and others but when it comes to supporting bp they all disappear. It's sad to see that, these girls do not deserve these fans. Yeah the main root cause of the intense hate for them is their own fans.
We need another Nxde in the industry.
I think its more about the culture. Im an asian, parents and older generations here believe a women must be respected and must act respectfully. Im not ignoring their personal choices or the sense of "modern thoughts" all im saying is its looked down upon in many if not most asian countries due to their still slightly orthodoxical views
I am asian too.
My parents have brains so they don't tell me that i should hate a woman ( fully grown) just for wearing the clothes that she wanted to wear
And also it is not ok for men too to roam shirtless in asian culture but y don't u criticize it?
14:40 BEST LINE EVER SAID
14:32 this is gold
I agree criticism must exist but what kpop stans do to BP and other female idols it's not criticism it's straight up hates and misogyny. I also didn't like lisa's CH thing, jennie's casting in IDOL, not even revealing clothes. But I understand that's what I like and dislike. I can't force them to do what I like. The one thing I can do is criticize but it should be healthy also.
I'm sick of kpop community being double standards. But not surprised when SK is a patriarchy county that can't see women empowerment. I remember how SK govt didn't tell YG that BP got invitation from usa's first lady. They had to give invitation 6 times but that's how it is. Not just kpop stans but this whole freaking govt help male idols to do whatever they can but not female. If not then burning sun's all criminals would be in jail for lifetime but they are enjoying their life now.
Agreed! It's totally fine to not agree with everything they do even I can disagree even though their my favorite group but that doesn't mean I'm going tod dedicate my life into making hate accounts for 1 thing they did
@@greenthinggg exactly. They are my ult group also. But I understand they are not angels from heaven but straight up humans. They can make mistakes that totally fine. But as fans we should acknowledge it and when it's time we should appreciate it. But some people can't acknowledge also some throw hates both are at faults. We won't be at the same page everytime it's okay that's how things work. But people are sitting just to hate them and I'm tired of these people
When the ice cream collab was announced , I remember the Jennie promos also getting lots of hate for the way she was dressed
I’m not a blink but even then i thought that people were overlooking things too much 😅
SO GLAD YOUR FEELING BETTER!!! 😩💖
Contrary to what you alluded, Lisa was NEVER nude or top less during her Crazy Horse performances.
I have a photo of her performance in the thumbnail. Also, artistic nudity doesn't always mean fully nude. People who care about this kind of thing don't care if it's underwear or full nude, it's all the same to them
Can you talk about Katseye next? Ily btw Natasha
Reading the title i thought you were gonna talk about how their stans infantilize them constantly to defend their problematic behavior, maybe not Lisa though. I just want you to cover both sides of the same coin😭
Ah! Yes that's a topic I'd love to talk about. I'm writing that one down, I think it would be good to call out toxic stan culture in general because it's so bad in regards to kpop
Maybe not Lisa though? Wanna elaborate on that?
@@marieLuvs-y9n I said that because she's not really that problematic I feel like people even before everything demonized her a lot because she's Thai. I know these are incredibly privileged celebrities but the racism is affecting the viewers too not just the idol.
@@rainbowsubs2thank you. Its sad how some people dont realize Lisa herself isnt even that problematic its just that people just are haters and dont like her. 😭🙏🏾
K-pop fans are so prudish. Obviously if it was like your religion then that make sense (but don’t spread hate those are your views & your religion). However sometimes I just feel like it’s because they have fully into the misogynistic and conservative K-pop culture. A lot of newer K-pop fans are also quite young like I’ve seen a 10-year-old K-pop fan before on the Internet, hating on other groups. So I don’t think they understand this anymore then from the view of the clean innocent idol. and for some reason, K-pop fans also have the tendency to infantilize idols, like their babies, which is weird because most of these fans are younger than said idol, especially when it comes to 3rd-4th gen idol. For example, like if you find a video of a K-pop idol wearing a short dress and she’s pulling it down (which is normal if you’re wearing a short dress, even if you’re not uncomfortable) or wearing shorts and not giving 100 into her performance then they’re gonna be like “ I can’t believe they’re making -idol- reveal so much skin🥺” and then the idol turns out to be 100% OK with it or in fact likes it. Especially on stage because I dance K-pop, it is not easy and long clothes and even if there’s not a lot of stage lights, it’s still quite hot from all the moving. I feel like sometimes fans give the idols the same values they have and pretend like the idol is only comfortable with the things they are comfortable with.
But regardless, why is it only OK when men do it like obviously they get hate for it but they don’t get as much not saying they deserve it if they’re adults go for it
Also, I would like to add that this can go for sexy concepts, which while there may be a problem, having a concept, doesn’t make that inherent problem. it irritates me, especially when new fans “ I miss old K-pop back when they weren’t trying to be so western and sexual” because I have seen that comment before and I’m like you wouldn’t survive a day in the second generation when I say new I mean, particularly 5th maybe 4th. But either way I feel like K-pop fans treat sexuality as a purely western idea which is not true at all that make sense that sounds weird.
BTW
The reason I brought this is cause like I was thinking about KIOF who’s like person I don’t know what exactly they are. I think they might be either the CEO or creative Director as well as the group themselves confirmed that they talk about what kind of concepts they want to go with and what they’re comfortable with. Yet fans wants to still have the debate about whether or not it’s against their will personally I feel like K-pop fans only say something is against idols will when it’s either
1 obvious
or
2 just not something the fans would do or agree with.
@@NnnnnnnnnnnnNnnnnnnn1111lmao yes I agree. Loved all your point's
The only thing I dont like about the crazy horse performance is that no recording exists which ive seen
I've actually been there, I've seen show 4. For me this is absolutely no surprise: Crazy Horse Paris actually wants you to come and see for yourself, so yes they do not let anybody record (even at normal shows without Lisa). You have to get your mobile phone locked up and you are instantly kicked to the curb if they see suspicious activity.
EDIT: Plus, Lisa did regular Crazy Horse show parts (although not topless or otherwise exposed), so that makes releasing it even more impossible.
Great video! :) I'd love you to make an actual full video about all the double standards between male and female kpop idols, it's still such a huge issue and I think you're able to talk about serious topics really well. Just a recent example - the kpop community made excuses and didn't give two fs that Exo's Baekhyun vaped indoors illegally while they tried cancelling Jennie for the same thing and painting her as the worst criminal of South Korea. Other examples: Your mentioned explicit outfits and choreos, male idols getting called cute when they're clumsy, dramatic or confident while female idols get called pick me's, male idols getting praised for working with underwear brands while female idols getting s shamed, people not caring if there are "dozens" in a boy group as long as they're handsome while picking on female "dozen" idols, same with no one caring when boy groups lip sync while it's the end of the world when a girl group does it, when male idols have low energy they are pitied and must be so tired while female idols are called lazy, when boy group members joke around and bicker with each other they're called funny while female idols get accused of bvllying each other etc...
Since when is exo as famous as bp to get the same attention
@@rainbowsubs2 I'm not making things up? His agency literally posted an apology statement so check that out if you don't believe me. He was vaping indoors when he was in Macau and it's prohibited to do that over there. Like with Jennie when she was in Italy. But only one of them got huge backlash for it... And don't act like Exo is some kind of nugu group, they're still one of the biggest kpop boy groups and especially Baekhyun as a successful solo artist himself. The backlash doesn't have to do with their popularity but withtheir gender and if you don't get that then I can't help you. + I only used this as ONE example for my comment.
@@rainbowsubs2 you’re the one that’s not doing your research
@@rainbowsubs2it did happen in Macau not to long ago. A photo was even posted as prove.
@@VideosForYou90 oh okay sorry well I don't follow the guy I didn't know. But my point still stands, Exo isn't even close to being as famous as BLACKPINK obviously not that many people would give that guy attention.
to be fair they were promoted as girl crush and did sexual dances since boombaya (debut) so it wasn't anything new . i didn't mind it before and not even now but the clothes coupled with that move was off no matter what others say.
the clothes in the last tour were off for me. sometimes they looked uncomfortable . before, they wore short shorts and mini skirt and the look gorgeous but in some of the tour oufits were quite questionable. some shorts looks like underwear and i'm not a fan of seeing buttcheeks .
for the idol jenny signed up for a different show skript and the weekend showed up after and the director changed. so it was a wrong move for her but it wasn't planned. i think lisa chose to perform at the crazy horse to break that image all toegether and it gave her the freedom she needed for later.'
i respect their choices but i don't have to be a fan of it . and don' need to complain i just don't watch
You are making a lot of sense SIS 😉😉😉😂
another video yeyyy, im happy you posted on the days where im feeling not my best thank you natasha
Aghhhhh I hope you feel better :((( sending positive energy and love your way 🎀❤️
@@Natasha.Louisee thank you so much LOVE YOUU (also im really happy you always answer my comments) hope you the best 🥰🥰
Curious can you do a video about your past in performance and how it helps your relate to the industry.
STAN (G)I-DLE 🗣🗣🗣
Stan blackpink🖤BLΛƆKPIИK💗
@@manogaming6534STAN IDLE-PINK
you wouldn't wanna here this about 2 girls from the biggest gg in the world.
Momo, from Twice, does a pole dance as well.
Its not very good but she does it.
Honestly, Lisas pole dance is very basic as well.
Hopefully the girls at Crazy Horse gave her some training in that area.
Yahh cause she isn't professional in it. She is just learn some basic and specific moves she wanted to perform
I agree with the other stuff but criticism and her the idol are a little justified.she was not part of the original cast so her role and the weekend are now connected than people wish to admit
Yeah I agree I wish more people talked about it rather than the skimpy things she did lol
Feminism has became market for kpop industry as well as Hollywood too
Jennie do get hate for dating scandals because her fans are always ready to fork their nose on someone's business
ooo, new vid?? let's go !!
Yay~ 🥳🥳
@@Natasha.Louisee woopwoop! 🥳🥳
love the hairstyle :)
Love your videos so much 😽
They gotta keep it up with something since they don't makr music and performances 😂
Love you queen !!
It was only until blackpink started doing stuff like swalla by lisa cover and jennie wearing short clothes and featuring in idol... that other conventional kpop idols could twerk actively on stage, like kiof, twice, gidle, le sserafim... they all mainstreamed...and their twerking was appreciated...as a dance form...but blackpink i remember were extremely hated and slutshamed... yes it's true mamamoo also did it, but their fans are not the conventional korean people who are in the majority... so their interventions had little contribution...even before that jessi, CL did it...but they were considered non mainstream so it didn't matter.... but thanks to bp all these artists can get away and not get hate...another, example is introduction to fashion brands going to shows... bp were shaded heavily, but now that all artists are doing it ppl only sing praises for walking ramps and being brand ambassadors....so in one way bp paved the way.... by getting extreme hate for something and then letting people have it easier...
Mamamoo also did it but then again that's always kinda been their image but lord forgive if bp does it
As if (G)I-DLE needed BP. I'm sorry, but since when has BP actually dared to make statements against the industry? Where were lyrics critizing the industry when Lisa released 'Rockstar'? I'm sorry, but BLACKPINK has never tried to act like they were feminists, so they shouldn't be credited for other groups actually doing feminist stuff. It's Soojin and the way she was treated, why (G)I-DLE is doing what they do now and its delusional to think otherwise.
@@inferiorinferno8859 who mentioned idle anywhere? You're self projecting if you think this is about them
omg so early I LOVE UR CONTENT 🫶🫶
Hey~ thank you ❤️ thanks for being early
1:30 this is objectively wrong.. 2ne1 and girls generation were so popular globally back then as well
Your voice sounds so different in this video
lisa is the one who should be praised, jennie is not
Can you explain why?? I can't understand 😢
Lisa fans stop being weird
Jennie and lisa both should be praised
@@manogaming6534 agree 💯
Toxic lillie 🤡. They are both equally amazing and both deserve praise they are 2 beautiful and talented girls who deserve love all around.
You'll never know what this comment said 🙊🙈
Because they want "sexy" but NOT THAT sexy. Look at the top comment they explain it better but gosh it seems like you can never please kpop stans
@@greenthinggg will do
Is ur voice OK take care of yourself love u❤😊
Not wanting to see female artists being oversexualized is not misogyny. Also, if u need mobility so much on stage, why wear high heels?
5 min in and u're not making any sense.
thank goodness, common sense!
harassing female idols for CHOOSING to wear revealing clothing or to appeal more sexual is in fact misogynistic
@@kanakanaa. Female idols choose nothing. The company who owns their contracts makes the choices. Companies exploiting female artists is misogynistic.
If u don't know this, u know nothing about k-pop.
@@kanakanaa. Idols, male or female, don't make choices regarding their clothes, looks, or music. The management does.
Are you new to k-pop?
You're not listening to me. That's why I'm not making sense. I said that people initially hated blackpink in their early days because of misogyny. Because they were a 'threat' to their fantasy about male idols.I didn't say that not liking sexualisation of women is misogynistic. idk how you got there. Also, blackpink doesn't really wear heels? Some female idols do, but this video is about blackpink. I also mentioned multiple times that people dislike sexualisation for a multitude of reasons, I pinned the double standard between men and women as misogny. But i also understand that their are other perspectives.
We early out here
Jesus... their first album was called "Square Up."
Did you do ANY research at all?
Personally I just don’t really see them changing the industry.. but I don’t think they should be shamed
Edit: “personally”! Goodness
Yes
you don’t see them changing the industry? but they’ve already done that… you’re not even aware
How may I ask
i dont see how they've changed anything either. in fact i keep seeing fans giving them credits for doing something revolutionary but... i dont see it. someone point it out to me please.
@@balladofahomeschooledboy0514 what did they change?
👏👏👏👏👏 👏 👏 bravo!
I feel like the level of explicity a celebrity should exhibit depends on the target audience. If the majority of a celebrity's fan are underaged, then i think there's a responsibility to act a certain way, like how youtubers whose target audience are children shouldn't record themselves smoking and posting it like it's cool. I feel like kpop's target audience are usually the younger crowd, but I'm not too familiar with blackpink or Lisa's scandal so I don't really have an opinion on whether what she did is appropriate or not.
It's hard to say because bp has a wide audience that can range from children to adults so idk but then again why on earth would a parent let their child watch something explicit?
Exactly. Although people can grow and want to change their target audience the current one is what matters. But blackpink doesnt target to children btw its just that kids tend to watch them but that isn’t necessarily their fault since they didn’t intentionally target to them.
I don't think most people are infantalizing the BP girls but are rather pointing out how they are a girlgroup who's music was literally used in children's movies and a considerable part of their fanbase are young girls!
Changing the industry? No, they are rather spreading the American idea of having a child-friendly fanbase whilst actively being bad rolemodels for the children in their fanbase. Whist plenty of K-POP groups have children in the fanbase, they are often an obvious minority, but not with BLACKPINK. One of their Amsterdam concerts did not get coverage by the regular news channel but it did from the children's newschannel ZAPP.
I am getting rather tired of you older Blinks pretending like there isn't a huge portion of tweens in the fandom and that the girls are being extremely inappropriate when you take them into consideration.
That is exactly why other girl groups don't get the same flock as most have way less children in their fanbase and are targeting older teens/young adults. Stop twisting the facts.
Where are MAMAMOO's songs being used in Dreamworks movies? Where are the (G)I-DLE songs? They're not there, as they don't target children with their music. We have every right to call someone out when their music is being marketed towards children and then they do stuff like The Idol and Crazy Horse.
You cannot have it both ways. As someone trying to enter the children's media, I find it apalling and it's amongst the reasons why I left the Blink fandom as I remember seeing Lisa's 'Swalla' dance and being like, 'But there are so many kids in the fandom. What kind of Miley Cyrus early 2010s behavior is this?!'
(no offense to Miley, Disney stars have it real bad which is why most of them act out after they get 'released', but BP was already doing that stuff whilst STILL promoting their music with children's movies. And if they were against YG signing their music off to children's movies then either they should have taken a stance that they weren't okay with YG doing that or they should have been graceful and not do these things for the sake of those kids. Even after their contract expired, they didn't take a stance on their music getting promoted to children so they deserve the blame as much as YG)
@@inferiorinferno8859 Artist aren't resposible for what children see. Crazy horse was a private event, the Idol was explicitly stated as an 18+ show. This is the Olivia Rodrigo concert all over again. Parents can see the clips of them online and they can choose wether or not they want to send their kids to their concerts. Bp fandom as a whole has a variety of age ranged and I really don't see them as kid friendly since the START of their carrer.
U r talking as if idle doesn't have any kids as their favs 😂😂😂
Idle fans are also kids like u
There is another issue with this infantilisation is undoubtably the double standard. Because sooooo many people that (correctly) defend these women doing this because they are adults but then also turn around and try and claim in cases of racism and sexism that these idols don't know any better. Like if they are adults (particularly 25+ idols) they should also not be treated like children when they do something problematic (like Jennie in The Idol) do I think people over do it with this kind of criticism, yes they do, but the double standard of when and when not to treat idols like adults actually frustrates me.
Here are my thoughts: So, starting with Lisa, I actually don't have anything to say about the way she dresses since we clearly have different values, like you said and what matters most to be when I consume content from her is her music / stage presence and as it happens I absolutely love her new music, I feel like it showcases Lisa's artistic style so well and just the quality of her newer music is so genuinely good that it makes me wonder how she was ever okay with releasing hot garbage such as money / lalisa (like the only explanation I can come up with is that these two were the least worst picks since teddy can't produce for sh!t). Oh and I almost forgot to mention, she has absolutely never missed in the stage presence and consistency department which is respectable since I'm sure she has her off days too.
For jennie, I'll be honest, I don't care about her outfits either but certain choices she's made has really put me off from her. Like I said, as a fan what matters most to me is the quality of music and performances, which had considerably declined ever since born pink. And I know blinks like to say oh they were underprepared and they improved later on but as a viewer and someone who got into bp in 2017 solely because of the quality of their performances, I was repeatedly dissatisfied. Besides, aren't you supposed to improve based on your last best performance rather than your last worst one? Or is that just me? The only thing jennie was consistent in was her disinterest in the stage and although I cannot confirm that that was actually what was happening, that's the impression I got as a viewer and as a fan. And yes back then I loved watching fancams from every concert so I'm not saying this based on 2 or 3 performances. Then, ofc the cherry on top was the idol. Like, the culmination of all of this plus her hanging out with alexander wang even after his controversy made me lose all of my respect for her as an artist and as a person. I never hated on her (literally why would you waste energy on someone you don't even like) but yeah it made me unstan bp after years of them being my female ults.
sorry, they arent changing anything, they're not doing anything groundbreaking. also, nuance is DEAD with stans, god damn.
meh, if korean people don't want their culture in this case KPOP, to be sexsualized then who are we to tell them they should change? what's wrong with being modest?
Well it's not like Jennie isn't korean? Jennie has more right to decide how she wants to portray herself, after all blackpink have done for the kpop industry and by proxy the Korean economy. Nothing wrong with being modest, but there's also nothing wrong with not being modest if one chooses to
the problem is when you insult and harass a person just for not being within your standards of modesty as is the case with lisa and jennie.
You’re so right, they kinda sexualise everything. K-pop used to be very nice and open for everyone or watch. Male idols did dominate but female idols didn’t. I’m also happy for them and female idols used to work their ass off and having fun too. The K-pop stage started being very sexual from the 2nd gen. And it kinda calmed down in the 3rd part but now you see overly sexualised younger girls like new jeans and their song cookie, eunchae and the choreo, bp at coachella and don’t even get me started on kiss of life. Yes these idols are old and get to do whatever but it was kinda sad to see how bp changed at coachella like ik y’all are grown women but that dramatic change left a mark on the K-pop industry
9:22 Boobs have a different purpose, that's not related to sexuatity? Please enlighten me, I must've missed something in class.
........ feeding their babies? Milk? It's literally not sexual we've just been socialized that way. When women can't even feed their own infants in public because weirdos think it's a sexual body part...... like yes, it's not related to sexuality
we like kpop not western artist and personalities so of course people complain kiss of life wear revealing clothes are sexy unfiltered and talk about boys but everyone loves them cuz theyre still kpop xg blackswan lisa isnt kpop theres no kpop production flair no korean etc. same with katseye we're kpop fans its fine if u like those artist but me as a kpop fan doesent cuz i like kpop and korean culture more than western culture kiof are a perfect mix of both without doing too much if we wanted western music we would follow them not kpop some fans just listen to kpop xg is a perfect example of doing it completely wrong when they debuted the first 3 releases or so up to left right shppting star they were mixing it perfectly then for some reason they went down this weird western creepy gaga path where they destroyed any image thats attractive destroyed the music we enjoyed and got weird with their mvs and stopped releasing content as well
This is a yap fest , I can't 😂. Black Pink is a great group though. Loved them since Boom Bya
Thanks for watching my yapping 😭😭❤️❤️
@@Natasha.Louisee you're channel actually seems like one of the few real and honest Kpop related channels. If I haven't already, I'll make sure to subscribe
I just think blandpink is the lamest/most hyped/most over rated G G of my lifetime, I don't think they are that great, but people will lock onto anything, Why are other G G's trying to be on the same lame level they need to be like a winner, NEW JEANS Rose up above that lameness/hype/blandness and became " BILLBOARD MAGAZINE's GROUP OF THE YEAR " with music/dance, even Billboard thought that Lisa's performance at the VMA's was Awful - If BILLBOARD calls it awful, AND THEY KNOW MUSIC, its has to be awful
MY OPINION, cause I LOVE MUSIC
you even TALK better than they SING, look hotter also
@@bobbyfellerd2993why tf are you talking with yourself lmaoo what😭😭😂😂😂
My guy what does this have to do with the video-
Even i don't like them appealing to western audiences because they're slowly eroding what constitutes something as kpop.
?
@@greenthinggg what part you didn't understood
@@JustGotALifetbh every group is doing it kpop has alot of english alot more westernized (not saying i have a problem with it)
@@Analou13 but they don't paint themselves as global group or non kpop group while doing all the things kpop. Unlike katseye. Also, those who sing in English still maintain and respect Korean culture because they deem themselves as kpop gorup while katseye tries stir away from all of that whilst ripping away the benefits
It’s not what they wear, it is the weird aggressive facial expressions that put people off.
I’ve seen girl with less dress performing while being adored because of performing them with class and grace.
Then don’t watch them? They’re performing to their own songs and have to be extra aggressive due to their image? How about male idols expressions? They look ridiculous sometimes as well cough taehyung cough nct cough stray kids cough jyp cough big bang
It's a performance. If your facial expression doesn't match your body movement it just doesn't match or go well. Is like me saying to you I don't like that "sad/somber scene because everyone is smiling." Men do it all the time on stage bumping and grinding. It's a double standard.
@@monoceros.9310😅 I see what you did there...I would also add EXO to that list oh and Jay Park. Although Jay is just a bad boy and us girls know it. 😂
@@monoceros.9310these people act like they have been held at gunpoint to watch them😂😂😂 Like they are justifying sl#tshaming cuz of facial expressions they don't like..... such weirdos
@@monoceros.9310 the point you’re missing out is nobody paying to watch Aespa to grind like lil nasx nor want bts to twerk it like cardi b. There is a certain image and expectation of class and grace that is expected from K-pop that many fans view is as the only differentiation stronghold left against “distasteful “or “unsophisticated” presentation of culture in current pop culture stars in the west.
K-pop is where people at the least expect men to be masculine and female to be beautifully feminine. That subconscious and often vocal desire often leads to the objections.