My first guess is that the main clearances were thrown off by using ARP main studs. I believe Nissan uses bolts for the main girdle and not studs. ARP studs are notorious for distorting the crank mating area. Jafromobile has a great segment of his engine machining process that goes over this. When you do studs, you need to bore the mains again to match the crank clearances.
this is engine building 101. i wouldnt call it notorious, i would call it user error. they probably mention this in the product manual. actually, yes it is in the product sheet. the entire intent of the arp studs is to change clamp load. if an engine builder is not checking this, or doesnt know this, they wont be building engines very long. the best way is to really use plastigage because it will also let you know if you have an issue with bend in the crank and warp in the block. or if you are in the engine building business, some v blocks and test indicators. this has amateur written all over it.
Make sure to get all the problematic oiling issues of the RB fixed. Restrictor in the block, drain on the back of the head and a GOOD catch can/breather setup. Nitto sine drive with nose extension for the crank is the next step. Dump the original crank sensor, saves a lot of trouble on these engines too. PRP has a great trigger kit for that! :( RIP crank, RIP Spool Rods :(
Who rebuilt the engine? Looks like zero effort was put into checking clearances of the bearings or piston rings. People should know to avoid whoever was responsible for this atrocious work. I see that you aren't planning to disclose the engine builder, I can respect that.
It would be a road to nasty litigation... They'll find an excuse and it probably would be that the car was modified after rebuild. I wonder if they provided a log of all bearing clearance measurements they took? That would indicate that they actually did the job.
Seems to be a common theme, people take their cars to cheap garages to save a few quid, and when it all goes south (like it always does) the garage washes their hands. When will people learn about false economies?
The death for a car is when you bend it like a croissant around a light pole or similar... Engines are a marvel, and with enough tooling and skill, you can rebuild practically any engine... That said, the same goes for the whole car... But redesigning and rebuilding a complete scrap is not worth it, but having your engine go is as sad as it seems, a phoenix moment... You take it out, and from the ashes you rise a new engine with better materials, better internal design and all out better performance in every way you feel like redesigning and working out before you make the final parts and put them in... Aint nothing a good lathe, a mill and a jig grinder wont fix, along with a welder and a forge-press coupled with a few other tidbits that are the cornerstone of every proper garage... If you have no tooling nor interest, dont develop interest for cars, as they are an expensive disappointment in most cases, as they are built to a standard and a cost efficacy margin for the maker, but if you are the maker, your pleasure is the margin, and timewise you are a millionaire when you have enough tooling and skill... Regarding the materials... Go to the nearest metalwork factory... Factories like that scrap the best material when a cnc or other machine does the slightest error and marks the part wrong nowadays, which is why I have spent like a 100 euro in material in the last 5 years... I just visit a good factory, find an employee and ask to be directed to the scrap bin which is always full of freshly blemished stock of incredible worth...
10:43 do i see an oil groove in the bottom bearing???? Only the top is meant to have the oil groove meaning that this engine either has the bearing shells swapped upside down or there are two sets of top bearings. The oil groove breaks the fluid film of the bearing effectively decreasing its load bearing capacity in half, which is why you don't see the oil groove in the bottom bearing shells.
perhaps trimetal bearing, maybe I am wrong but the bottom bearing groove appears to be partial, and if its is, then its just a racing high horsepower bearing kit, like King Trimetal Race bearings
I understand now why the RB26 can make so much power. On top of having 7 main bearing journals, all the crank bearing caps are connected by a girdle. That is amazing that they did this on factory engines.
And the PRP Billet Main Cap Gridle can make it even stronger. It ties everthing together instead of having seperate pieces. Makes the bottom of the block really freaking strong.
Excellent example of why a Car enthusiast should know how to assemble your engine fastener by fastener and be able to measure EVERYTHING. Awesome job with the autopsy.
These cranks can be cut down if you want to machine it. Check for straightness as well. Also you need to align bore hone the mains and you will need a few new rods.
you make it look so easy working on the rb26 even though it's your first time. keep up the good work. I don't think you mentioned the cause of the low compression. Do you think it's the rings or the valves?
Engine rebuild done fast and cheap. That could have happen in a dealer shop also. When you order an engine rebuild, it is going to cost you a pretty penny. You can pay it once, or as in this case, twice. One basic rule applies here: No car owner will sell a car after proper engine rebuild. Those on the market are just like this one. Burnt engine with new(ish) oil pump and fancy after market parts. Made to run for the test drive.
I think the seats of the crank are not parallel with the crank. cylinder 1 got different damage from cylinder 6 . After the metal worm up change shapes or slightly bend. Like cylinder heads they bend different from side to side or become like banana , like valves which are marked to seat back on same position. Each time you remove it and install crank or cylinder heads the metals are more elastic from heat and torque is different soo always need good measurements and machining..Any way I am waiting to see you fixing it and run it on track. 👌💪
I think it's going to take u a few more track days to truly dial in that monster but it will probably blow out almost everything, by the way, what r u doing about air dynamics is it all software or r u taking it to a wind tunnel.
hi guys, i have focus mk2 1.6 2008 euro,, i had heat issues a while ago , i fixed it but now i have oil coming out the breather hose to the air filter , and sever knock sound when accelerating from 0 , i was told my ring pistons need to be changed , i want to do rod and main bearing change too, should i get the undersized or oversize my car has 160k miles
honestly what is it with the engine builders in the toronto area being so shit? My friend just had his aw11 blacktop engine rebuilt and it failed a few hundred kms as well.
It appears it can if it has the z travel but wow what a risky move as they need to be almost perfectly perpendicular to the crank centerline, hot dawg id be sweating.
No way of knowing but I would bet the main bearings were too tight leading to lack of lubrication and then ultimate failure. Crank could also be bent but seems not likely as the second and last bearing failed first.
Was the methanol kit installed? I have never seen a dyno that doesn't display AFR in like, a very easy to spot graph, did I missed it? What oil was used? what was the weight?
Logan880121 perhaps someone Elses money and engine. He just want to total destroy that? If i ware owner of this car i charge 50% rebuild costs. Did he realy drive home From dyno whitout oli pressure?
Whats better turn it off and pray to god the problem fixes it's self or leave it running for 10 sec longer to find the cause and actually fix it. The damage was already done at that point, leaving it on for a bit longer to properly check over everything only saves time and second guessing
Wouldn't a om606 be a better engine since the bay is made for straight 6? :-) Btw a good set up nissan rb is awesome! + the fact the oil pan is a part of the gtr awd drive line.
How the hell can it weigh 212 kgs? My EJ25 weighs about 85 kgs and it has two engine blocks, two heads, 4 cams and a bunch of other crap. 212 kgs is massive :O There must be a lot of steel in them. No wonder they hold boost so well.
0 oil pressure = keep running it. Genius. Might not be the engine builders fault. The stock rb pump is inadequate for higher boost levels. This is common knowledge.
400 km engine?? I guess it is 400 km after run in/break in period? My mechanic asked me to run my car's engine smoothly (no high power, stomping on the gas pedal, runs) for the break in period of 1500 km after bottom end rebuild. Am I missing something here?
The break-in is only a few runs (e.g full throttle acceleration at higher gear, not all the way to limiter - then slow down with "engine braking" for another pull), and it's for the piston rings. That's old school thing driving the engine easily for a few hundred kilometers or more.. like from the 60's or 70's, when the rings, bore finish and oil were not even close to what we've got today. You only glaze the bores and rings will never seat well by doing that. Break-in process for the camshaft(s) is a different deal tho.
@@juhonmoottoripaja2443 Thanks for the explanation. I understand the bedding in process. What I don't understand is driving hard right after 400 km from a warranty/guarantee point of view. Can't help but think that the extent of the damage could have been minimized if they took their time before slapping a tune on and sending it to the dyno. Then again you won't know if something is wrong if you don't wring it out, especially on these performance parts. I'm not criticizing, just wondering. I guess it is the same as the old Facebook saying, 'move fast and break things'. I would also want to believe this is not the owner's daily, so it makes more sense to take more risk.
@@thepanzymancan On a warrantied part it can be a good idea to thrash it at least when it comes to computer electronics. If the part survives its good for the next few years if it doesn't its easier to claim the part was defective from the start.
Oh well The clearance on the bearings was too close. He probably followed stock spec. Could also be the wrong oil was used. If in 400kh the cross hatch was gone I think it was an oil with no zinc. If the clearances are to race spec then 400kh is adequate Run in. since the copper came out i bet it was Detonation and or the timing was overadvanced. The RB26 is a crap motor in my opinion.
This is sad. You have incompetent people rebuilding engines and then they don't stand behind their work. Hopefully that particular business quickly fails and goes out of business...like that motor. Do certain shops have guarantees of their work? That's too much money to take a gamble on.
I 100% agree, there are so many so called engine "builders" out there. Their built motors may run for a couple thousand miles, and make some crazy up numbers...but eventually they all self destruct. Better to just do bolt ons and stay within the stock motors limits or buy a car that has more hp stock if you want more hp.
Oh man. All jokes aside, If that was my car, I would take the burnt con rod and piston to the guy who rebuilt that engine and convince him one way or another that he was gonna give me back every penny that I had paid him. What a scumbag.
Авто/Мото
My first guess is that the main clearances were thrown off by using ARP main studs. I believe Nissan uses bolts for the main girdle and not studs. ARP studs are notorious for distorting the crank mating area. Jafromobile has a great segment of his engine machining process that goes over this. When you do studs, you need to bore the mains again to match the crank clearances.
100% it's the ARP mains with no align hone. I've seen this exact failure on a RB26 with that exact issue. That one didn't even make it to the dyno.
@MistaFreaky jfro has ocd bad
this is engine building 101. i wouldnt call it notorious, i would call it user error. they probably mention this in the product manual. actually, yes it is in the product sheet. the entire intent of the arp studs is to change clamp load. if an engine builder is not checking this, or doesnt know this, they wont be building engines very long. the best way is to really use plastigage because it will also let you know if you have an issue with bend in the crank and warp in the block. or if you are in the engine building business, some v blocks and test indicators. this has amateur written all over it.
Make sure to get all the problematic oiling issues of the RB fixed. Restrictor in the block, drain on the back of the head and a GOOD catch can/breather setup. Nitto sine drive with nose extension for the crank is the next step. Dump the original crank sensor, saves a lot of trouble on these engines too. PRP has a great trigger kit for that! :( RIP crank, RIP Spool Rods :(
Basically required to own a powerful RB.
man you really meant it when you said alot more content this year! hope it brings that 100k subs in
Who rebuilt the engine? Looks like zero effort was put into checking clearances of the bearings or piston rings. People should know to avoid whoever was responsible for this atrocious work.
I see that you aren't planning to disclose the engine builder, I can respect that.
It would be a road to nasty litigation... They'll find an excuse and it probably would be that the car was modified after rebuild.
I wonder if they provided a log of all bearing clearance measurements they took? That would indicate that they actually did the job.
It is a disservice to NOT name the original engine builder. They should be avoided and potential customers should know
@@millenniumzeek That engine was never rebuilt.
@@millenniumzeek He's in Canada, there is not USA style freedom of speech here
Did this engine had a methanol kit?
Seems to be a common theme, people take their cars to cheap garages to save a few quid, and when it all goes south (like it always does) the garage washes their hands. When will people learn about false economies?
Engine Teardown Whooo!!!! You are very right about the last part and the negligence to following the specs when rebuilding an engine.
This is the scary part about owning a 30 year old import you’ll never know if it’s on the verge of death
The death for a car is when you bend it like a croissant around a light pole or similar... Engines are a marvel, and with enough tooling and skill, you can rebuild practically any engine... That said, the same goes for the whole car... But redesigning and rebuilding a complete scrap is not worth it, but having your engine go is as sad as it seems, a phoenix moment... You take it out, and from the ashes you rise a new engine with better materials, better internal design and all out better performance in every way you feel like redesigning and working out before you make the final parts and put them in... Aint nothing a good lathe, a mill and a jig grinder wont fix, along with a welder and a forge-press coupled with a few other tidbits that are the cornerstone of every proper garage... If you have no tooling nor interest, dont develop interest for cars, as they are an expensive disappointment in most cases, as they are built to a standard and a cost efficacy margin for the maker, but if you are the maker, your pleasure is the margin, and timewise you are a millionaire when you have enough tooling and skill... Regarding the materials... Go to the nearest metalwork factory... Factories like that scrap the best material when a cnc or other machine does the slightest error and marks the part wrong nowadays, which is why I have spent like a 100 euro in material in the last 5 years... I just visit a good factory, find an employee and ask to be directed to the scrap bin which is always full of freshly blemished stock of incredible worth...
10:43 do i see an oil groove in the bottom bearing????
Only the top is meant to have the oil groove meaning that this engine either has the bearing shells swapped upside down or there are two sets of top bearings.
The oil groove breaks the fluid film of the bearing effectively decreasing its load bearing capacity in half, which is why you don't see the oil groove in the bottom bearing shells.
Nice observation! Would never have guessed!
from what material are those bearings made of ?
perhaps trimetal bearing, maybe I am wrong but the bottom bearing groove appears to be partial, and if its is, then its just a racing high horsepower bearing kit, like King Trimetal Race bearings
Your videos are always greatly appreciated. Thanks for sharing :)
I always look forward to watching your videos! Keep them coming 👌
I understand now why the RB26 can make so much power. On top of having 7 main bearing journals, all the crank bearing caps are connected by a girdle. That is amazing that they did this on factory engines.
And the PRP Billet Main Cap Gridle can make it even stronger. It ties everthing together instead of having seperate pieces. Makes the bottom of the block really freaking strong.
But they made the oil holes in the block the same size as on the 1.4 Ford Fiesta lol
As someone that loves older AMGs and has an R32 - keep up the good work I will look forward to following the engine rebuild on the RB26
Can't wait for the next video! You really inspire me and I am thinking of starting my own project like your E 55 ASL
Great vid dudes
Killing it as always!
o man! you left me hanging
can't wait for the fix video !!!
Excellent video, thanks for the upload
Excellent example of why a Car enthusiast should know how to assemble your engine fastener by fastener and be able to measure EVERYTHING. Awesome job with the autopsy.
Nice teardown and great explanation
oil pressure is at ZERO but you let the engine running at idle, nothing abnormal.........
It probably didn't matter at that point. It was coming out.
It does matter its the difference between fucked and no parts being used again so fucking simple
@@jaky3 absolutely matters that’s why the entire engine is wrecked. Would have been much less damage if they stopped.
It’s really good to have that knowledge to redo your engine
I came to this channel for the rebuilding of the AMG V8 however the channel became much more interesting lately 😀
dude, you are a mechanical *diamond* .
These cranks can be cut down if you want to machine it. Check for straightness as well. Also you need to align bore hone the mains and you will need a few new rods.
1:57 Words you do not want to hear at the dyno.
When you check clearances, where do you get your clearance reference from?
If you ask any RB owner they'll tell you that you refit the timing belt cover. Its meant to be left off.
Great Video
Great video for us viewers!
Not so great for the Owner of the car!
Looking forward to the rebuild.
Will we get more content on the amazing and wonderfull R Class?
I hope not anytime soon. Took ages to get it running somewhat reliable lol
The importance of bearing clearance
you make it look so easy working on the rb26 even though it's your first time. keep up the good work. I don't think you mentioned the cause of the low compression. Do you think it's the rings or the valves?
Can you please show us how to measure the various clearances?
Engine rebuild done fast and cheap. That could have happen in a dealer shop also. When you order an engine rebuild, it is going to cost you a pretty penny. You can pay it once, or as in this case, twice. One basic rule applies here: No car owner will sell a car after proper engine rebuild. Those on the market are just like this one. Burnt engine with new(ish) oil pump and fancy after market parts. Made to run for the test drive.
well I spotted something in this video that might say otherwise, can you watch the video again and see if you notice something peculiar in the engine
Great video and well explained.
The "Rebuild" done 400km ago was disgusting.
Were you all monitoring the knock value in the motor?
Am I seeing it bad or isthe engine missing 2 of the head studs?
Could you show the full process of the machining and so forth for the GTR? Anything that's interesting for us random joe's out there. :D
I think the seats of the crank are not parallel with the crank. cylinder 1 got different damage from cylinder 6 . After the metal worm up change shapes or slightly bend. Like cylinder heads they bend different from side to side or become like banana , like valves which are marked to seat back on same position. Each time you remove it and install crank or cylinder heads the metals are more elastic from heat and torque is different soo always need good measurements and machining..Any way I am waiting to see you fixing it and run it on track. 👌💪
I think it's going to take u a few more track days to truly dial in that monster but it will probably blow out almost everything, by the way, what r u doing about air dynamics is it all software or r u taking it to a wind tunnel.
One bearing could be blamed on the owner... but all bearings are definitely the builders fault.
what is the goal horsepower on the RB after rebuild
I think the turbos will max out at around 550whp
Wouldn't that piss you off! You trust your engine builder!
I'd be nervous about using any of those rods or crank again. Damn expensive fix.
If you buildt the engine with everything racing how much HP could the engine be buildt to produce
If the power wasn't going up, why would you keep adding timing?
Oil pumps on rb26 are a common fault and plus the short nose crank on r32 gtr's
The pump was fine on this one. We took it apart to make sure. 13:18
@@xfmotorsports Long nose crankshaft? very interesting what you was saying about oil clearances!
Where does the nice jazzy music come from?
hi guys, i have focus mk2 1.6 2008 euro,, i had heat issues a while ago , i fixed it but now i have oil coming out the breather hose to the air filter , and sever knock sound when accelerating from 0 , i was told my ring pistons need to be changed , i want to do rod and main bearing change too, should i get the undersized or oversize my car has 160k miles
Depends, if the clearances are good then stick to the normal size
honestly what is it with the engine builders in the toronto area being so shit? My friend just had his aw11 blacktop engine rebuilt and it failed a few hundred kms as well.
Dam that sucks for that guy
He's lucky now because he seems to be in good hands.
if the cylinders needs to be overbored can your cnc handle it ? would be an epic video of boring that block in that cnc
It appears it can if it has the z travel but wow what a risky move as they need to be almost perfectly perpendicular to the crank centerline, hot dawg id be sweating.
How different did the r35 and the E55 ASL feel compared to each other in terms of weight transfer and body roll?
Very different. The r35 is heavy much like my older e55. The asl is like an oversized gokart
212 kilos for engine AND front diff as I understand. Not bad! :)
Scary stuff, not sure i wanna take my car to a shop after seeing this
You just gotta take it to the right shop and you'll be good. But if such thing happens, you better demand your money back.
@@vdochev finding a good shop is not easy, that's for sure.
sounds like a court case, I don't know how Canadian Civil court system works. But I think that's a legit case
You didn't obscure the plate when on the Dyno...
No way of knowing but I would bet the main bearings were too tight leading to lack of lubrication and then ultimate failure. Crank could also be bent but seems not likely as the second and last bearing failed first.
Damn. When I saw the title I figured the pump gears had broken but this is so much worse.
the cammera in the gtr was slecht....love you man
When are you going to upload a new video
Was the methanol kit installed?
I have never seen a dyno that doesn't display AFR in like, a very easy to spot graph, did I missed it?
What oil was used? what was the weight?
How much would it cost to rebuilt my BMW S62 engine?
Why do you runing the engine with no oil pressure? The gauge is there to show you when you have to stop the engine.
Logan880121 perhaps someone Elses money and engine. He just want to total destroy that? If i ware owner of this car i charge 50% rebuild costs. Did he realy drive home From dyno whitout oli pressure?
Whats better turn it off and pray to god the problem fixes it's self or leave it running for 10 sec longer to find the cause and actually fix it. The damage was already done at that point, leaving it on for a bit longer to properly check over everything only saves time and second guessing
lmfao you did one lap, while gettping separation and placed third!?
If you want to learn something about motorsport follow this channel...this guy started with a gocart to making is own supercar pistons
Did the engine had a methanol kit ?
Check the oil pump gears, RB engines love killing them
The best way to fix an RB is to swap a 2jz lol jk 😂
V8 merc engine the Skyline. The internet would love that
Wouldn't a om606 be a better engine since the bay is made for straight 6? :-) Btw a good set up nissan rb is awesome! + the fact the oil pan is a part of the gtr awd drive line.
I think bit improvement in ur video quality and editing will blow ur channel in the proportions.
Rebuilt my butt. Oil cooler will be rubbish too now. damn!!!!
Wow that messed up man
Should a newly rebuilt engine be dyno tested? Did you break it in before?
It had 400km on it, also even if it wasn't broken in it shouldn't break at that power level
Rb30 block time
Get a bladder cell for the ASL
pinging?
What is the name of the shop so we can steer clear of it.
He did accept his fault a bit, and is willing to provide a new crank and parts so won't mention it
@@xfmotorsports that legit. Crank is the only hard to get part lol!
Who rebuilt that engine? Ray Charles?
How the hell can it weigh 212 kgs? My EJ25 weighs about 85 kgs and it has two engine blocks, two heads, 4 cams and a bunch of other crap.
212 kgs is massive :O
There must be a lot of steel in them. No wonder they hold boost so well.
0 oil pressure = keep running it. Genius. Might not be the engine builders fault. The stock rb pump is inadequate for higher boost levels. This is common knowledge.
that was a crankshaft
Never go to any open door
who has built that engine... may be without any calculation.
First?? I’m sure I’ll love the video!
You ..are.. the man, glad to see you ~not wearing a mask~ [not submitting to a pointless task] you are extremely smart too... KUDOS!
JuSt LS3 sWAp iT LoLoLoool
unlucky
400 km engine?? I guess it is 400 km after run in/break in period? My mechanic asked me to run my car's engine smoothly (no high power, stomping on the gas pedal, runs) for the break in period of 1500 km after bottom end rebuild. Am I missing something here?
The break-in is only a few runs (e.g full throttle acceleration at higher gear, not all the way to limiter - then slow down with "engine braking" for another pull), and it's for the piston rings.
That's old school thing driving the engine easily for a few hundred kilometers or more.. like from the 60's or 70's, when the rings, bore finish and oil were not even close to what we've got today.
You only glaze the bores and rings will never seat well by doing that.
Break-in process for the camshaft(s) is a different deal tho.
@@juhonmoottoripaja2443 Thanks for the explanation. I understand the bedding in process. What I don't understand is driving hard right after 400 km from a warranty/guarantee point of view. Can't help but think that the extent of the damage could have been minimized if they took their time before slapping a tune on and sending it to the dyno. Then again you won't know if something is wrong if you don't wring it out, especially on these performance parts. I'm not criticizing, just wondering.
I guess it is the same as the old Facebook saying, 'move fast and break things'. I would also want to believe this is not the owner's daily, so it makes more sense to take more risk.
@@thepanzymancan On a warrantied part it can be a good idea to thrash it at least when it comes to computer electronics. If the part survives its good for the next few years if it doesn't its easier to claim the part was defective from the start.
@@thepanzymancan even if it wasn't broken in it shouldn't blow up like that.
Oh well The clearance on the bearings was too close. He probably followed stock spec. Could also be the wrong oil was used. If in 400kh the cross hatch was gone I think it was an oil with no zinc. If the clearances are to race spec then 400kh is adequate Run in. since the copper came out i bet it was Detonation and or the timing was overadvanced. The RB26 is a crap motor in my opinion.
This is sad. You have incompetent people rebuilding engines and then they don't stand behind their work. Hopefully that particular business quickly fails and goes out of business...like that motor. Do certain shops have guarantees of their work? That's too much money to take a gamble on.
Car was engineered for 280 hp. びっくりしないで
Name and shame the engine builder.
no 1 can build it better then a japanese...lol
I 100% agree, there are so many so called engine "builders" out there. Their built motors may run for a couple thousand miles, and make some crazy up numbers...but eventually they all self destruct. Better to just do bolt ons and stay within the stock motors limits or buy a car that has more hp stock if you want more hp.
Oh man. All jokes aside, If that was my car, I would take the burnt con rod and piston to the guy who rebuilt that engine and convince him one way or another that he was gonna give me back every penny that I had paid him. What a scumbag.
americans when they hear 400 kilometer : *confuse noises*
this is why we need EV. Internal combustion engine is cool, but way too many moving parts needs to work properly.