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Autism & Friendships
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- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2022
- Having a friend or community that can make you feel fulfilled as a person can be very hard for a lot of autistic individuals to find. For a lot of us, we instead, consistently find ourselves at a crossroads in which we have to choose between loneliness and our own comfortability. I'm sure for many of you, you've had to choose your comfortability and sanity in order to be able to maintain other aspects of your life, but at the cost of feeling extremely lonely.
On today's episode I explore my own patterns within friendships in which I find myself consistently operating on. What patterns do I find myself feeling an aversion towards and what patterns allow me to not only sustain a fulfilling friendship, but to do so comfortably as well.
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I sometimes forget about my friends because of the lack of connect between us. I completely forget they exist (they get lost due to my thoughts and other interests which they do not share) until someone mentions them or I see them - it is very exhausting because you want deep connections and many don't comprehend that.
I thought it was just me who forgot my friends exist - thank you for sharing that!
Heyo! My family told me it's not normal to just "forget" people...
I did actually laugh out loud this because it's just sooo relatable!!
I've been googling that for years trying to find out, what is wrong with me 🫢🫢
@@snikrepakits not neurotypical, that doesnt mean its not normal
Am I the only one that paused this video to see if the birds were in my environment or from this video? I love them so much it distracted me.
Athough I'm not autistic, I am ND and I feel that your perspective is definitely valid. May be controversial to say, but a lot of NTs have no self awareness or self reflection, so the projection piece is especially true. Lacking identity sabotages any relationship, but friendships are a unique dynamic where more is expected, and there's never a check-in after some years about whether or not the friendship still works mutually. Fact is, the less aware you are of yourself, you cannot meet the other person. Allistic or not. But it seems to me that compared to NTs, NDs are a little more prone to having solid identity, personal values, better boundaries, etc. But that's only my opinion and every rule has an exception of course. Oh and to your commentary on unwanted romantic attention: all I can say is YES. Yes, to all of it. Thanks so much for this video!
I wish I knew where I could find other neurodivergent people. I crave a sense of belonging so much.
We are everywhere! In the most unexpected places, in the far reaches of the Earth.
@@snikrepak I know this yet I can never seem to find them??? 🥲
I’m here… we could be friends
might not be for you personally but the kink community is FULL of neurodivergent ppl
Whatever interests you have or if you work or do school, we're everywhere ;)
One thing to keep in mind is that the ND movement is still new to mainstream culture, so there are many ND peeps out there who don't even know nor self-identify as ND despite being ND.
I once asked someone who I had met on an online dating app if she was Autistic. Compared to some of the other people I was interacting with, I just felt like we communicated similarly and she was OBSESSED with microbiology. However, after asking that, she took it as an insult (but still replied with a, "Well I'm not diagnosed but I think I might be").
After that she ghosted me. I tried to explain that I was Autistic and self-advocacy but *sigh* no use.
I'm a lot more reserved now when talking with non-self-identifying or non-self-disclosed ND people because the stigma still exists. Regardless how someone self-identifies, what matters is that we respect each other's preferences. It's hard navigating internalized ableism with ourselves and our relationships with others in this society.
The hardest part is usually building the willingness to meet new people, give them a chance, and find out who they really are. I mask heavily and most people would probably reject that I'm Autistic (some have with the typical, "but you don't look like it" or "but you're charismatic"). If we met irl, I wonder if you'd be able to tell (and vice versa) 🥸
hahaha I *heavily* relate to liking old women avtivities! I wish more people embraced this kind of lifestyle. Like, I just want a friend to take walks or like, repot plants with XD
I pray you find (or have found) this kind of human!
Totally relate. I’ve met lots of people with this interest by volunteering at a community garden
My friends joke that my style is grandma punk because I don’t have the money to get the supplies for a lot of the more seen punk styles but I have a lot of yarn so I crochet a lot of my stuff!! I love it though!!! Everything I make suits my body and needs perfectly
@@saltydinonuggies1841 That sounds so cool. I wanna see more of that type of fashion
It's so funny! I just watched a video about "pick me" girls the other day. You only mentioned it briefly, but I do think it's a label that some people are so quick to put on another person.
I genuinely don't seem to connect with other women, and I have been like that my whole life. Women and girls would often... cling to me, but I never really reciprocated that feeling of friendship. I found being around them was draining, as they seemed to expect so much from me like constant validation and contact. I have one female friend, and she has the exact same attitude as me. We can shoot the shit. That's what I enjoy.
I have found that I do connect with dudes a lot better. People seem to assume that since you "get along with guys" better than other women, that it automatically means you want attention from men. I don't want attention, I want *CONNECTION*. It sucks, too, because I often can't tell when the other person wants more than a friendship, and I have no idea how to end the relationship without doing the "INFJ Door-slam" once it is blatantly obvious (I also do this when female friendships become too much for me to handle). I generally just stay away from people to avoid these things. I'd much rather be alone than burn my very limited energy on trying to manage any of that.
Very interesting! I resonated a lot w your experience. I was planning on making a video on this so feel free to respond w more experiences so I can perhaps share on that video🧡
@@thethoughtspot222 Sorry for not responding earlier. I just started a new job, and it has been taking up a lot of my energy and attention...
Are you wanting some examples? I'm assuming for the INFJ Door Slam. I don't mind sharing! 🙂 I just want to make sure that's what you're talking about.
You have to learn to vett, people can play a really good facade, and can trick my ability to observe them. I'm sorry your experience has been terrible, you must be honest with yourself and with your partner, lay boundaries, ask questions!
@@MartianGirl347I think Irene refers to the INJF door slam, yes. I also resonate so much with your experience. Lately I've been learning how to "sweeten" a little bit my "INFJ warnings" prior to the Door Slam, and I've had some surprisingly good experiences with some people. There are folks who do appreciate boldness, even if unexpected, but only if you choose the tone and phase the words in a gentle way. It takes big chunks of my mental and emotional energy to do it that way, but sometimes it can make the bonds stronger. And sometimes they'll break. And that's ok.
Omg I laughed at the "INFJ door slam" 😂😂 I'm an infj and I.. unfortunately.. door slam so many people out of my life because there never seems to be connection
I just wanted to say that I got diagnosed!!! I'm so relieved and happy and your videos have brought so much comfort thank you
Yay!
Do they medicate u once diagnosed? I feel diagnosis would alleviate me as well but am afraid to become their pharmaceutical recipient after
Then dnt take the pills uh duh 😊
Awesome!! I bet the validation is like taking a breath for the first time in years!
I have found that even when I want to establish a strong bond with others, one on one, there is always a power imbalance that is rooted underneath the surface of that friendship. I want to connect as a person on equal footing but there is something in my walk, talk, mannerisms, patterns, etc that must signal a difference. And the people that I want to trust end up exploiting it or trying to humiliate or humble me or trying to pull rank in some way. Seeing them trying to manipulate me or being repeatedly oblivious to my pain even when I have shown good faith and acted as a true friend to them ends up disgusting me. And I end the “friendship”. I don’t think I’ve ever had a real friend who was not playing these type of mind games and was just willing to be kind, friendly and mutually supportive without also somehow thinking of me as a charity case because of my latent neurodivergence.
this is true for me as well... only a few friends in my life ever who've been equal to me
This is where I use to often get labeled as a detached friend, a fringe friend or fair weather. This happened alot because I got what you called friend burnout. Mostly I was dubbed the loner, because I just simply don't like loud environments. Takes me so long to repair...... I just simply refuse to do any longer. PERIOD.
I just wanted to say thank you for all that you’ve done. I have never in my entire life consumed words from a stranger that have resonated this much with me. It’s very comforting and I’m grateful you exist for people like us.
I have or had an older female friend get upset with me because I did not react the way she wanted me to in regards to something exicitng that happened for her. But I was in fact happy for her, I guess just not as happy as she was & she told me that hurt her feelings. I explained my response(s)& why it may come off that way. I'm just not a super extravagant person when it comes to my emotions. I think she needed constant validation, her calling often & me just listening on the phone. Never got to say much. And sometimes she would be frustrated with whatever it was she was dealing with & kinda talked down on me in the same breath. Trauma with her mom being projected on to me by her telling me she thinks I don't think highly of her when I'm literally coming to her house twice a week to help write for her album. I was dedicated. Also told her about an opportunity I had coming up writing with someone else & she said something like "although, that will be different for you", which I didn't catch as being a backhanded thing until she replied "sorry" right after & told me she shouldn't have said that 😳 Ultimately it led me to not even go along with my intial curiosity in the event, it triggered my self doubt. Anyways, I eventually told her I needed space often & she's given it to me but now due to all the negative circumstances between us i.e. me feeling drained after our interactions or feeling the need to walk on eggshells I don't want to re-unite anytime soon. It brings me anxiety to think how it will be trying to double back & maybe her doing something to get even with me for not clinging to her & her vision for my life.
I also want to end my current friendship, which is my bestfriend. We've been friends for almost 10 years. But I don't feel a deep connection with her & never have. I feel like everytime we speak it's mainly her speaking on a new love interest, her career, family or recent experiences & she doesn't ask about me at all. She didn't even know I didn't have a car for a long time. She literally knows nothing about me outside of the fact that I do music & that's how we met. She does have BPD, so I've been understanding in that. It just feels one sided & empty. She doesn't have much interest in the things I partake in, mainly human psychology & spirituality. I can't even get her to take a Myers Briggs quiz vs my virtual friends who do it as fun 😂 She shows little compromise, a lot of the time we just do what she wants to do, so there's a mis-alignment & signs in itself that maybe we shouldn't even be engaging anymore. Intimacy for me is being able to have those long deep conversations about anything. That's never happened with her. After 2 hours there's nothing to expound upon & we're ready to depart. Mind you we only see each other now maybe 3 times a year. It's not as easy for me to cut people off so bluntly who I have love for. I kinda end up just ghosting & feel horrible for that as well. So in this phase of my life I will be having those verbal break ups, because communication is something I want to be better at.
I agree, it’s so hard. I personally know someone very close to me with BPD. I would definitely categorize it as absolutely the most chaotic, rocky, confusing, up and down relationship I’ve ever had. It’s hard to say everything they do is due to their own choice or things they cannot control. I’ve decided, after a long time, that I could only love them from distance and I was only capable of that when I stopped blaming myself and feeling guilty. Don’t let them eat away at you, because that’s one of the most painful ways that can happen. If you can stop feeling guilty, recognize your as well as their shortcomings, then that’s really the only way. From my experience at least. Wish you well ❤️
@@jasmineessink265 aw, thank you ♡ I feel like as long as I get better at communicating these things I feel it'll enhance relationships for me & if it doesn't then that person isn't for me. I feel such relief after dismissing some of the people pleasing tendencies.
I love the friendship that you describe at the end of this video so much. I dream of having that one day. I imagine it is like having a really close sister. 💜
I learned a tremendous amount from this video. Now I see clearly how my friends expressed as autistic.
I myself, can see why all my relationships fail. “I fear that I like them more than they like me.” This stops me from developing any relationship, just any friendship. I have lost therapists, and important medical support because of this. It is so socially unacceptable to like someone just a little too much, that it makes it hard for me to navigate life. Of course I’m going to like someone who finally comes along and shows me some sense of mercy and kindness. “Why am I treated with more criticism and shamed more, than this other person who is clearly physically abusive? I get a worse punishment (loss/grief), why? Because you feel weird being around me?” (Quote from a traumatized part) I have looked for a good amount of time for someone to explain their end of the experience, the receiving end of being liked. It does not solve anything for me or you, but at least I can forgive and process my grief of so much failure, because I at least have someone somewhere provide reason and closure.
I personally do have a problem with empathy. I was oblivious to it until I started therapy, but I am naturally disconnected to my emotions. Most of the time I have to dig to figure out what I’m feeling and then dig even more to figure out what’s causing the feeling. (Alexithymia, basically) which therefore impacts my ability to empathise because well.. if it takes that much work to understand my own emotions, it’s all the more difficult with other people.
It’s made me act in quite narcissistic ways in the past, but unlike actual narcissism I have no intention at all to harm other people. In fact it’s quite the opposite. I became a total people pleaser because my own intuition would too commonly end up causing unintentional harm.
I felt the need to express that for any other autistic people here who may feel like they’re the only ones who do in fact meet the stereotype. You’re not ❤
Great to hear someone with such self awareness, honoring, values and ability to communicate. Very nice sounds of the birds and space
this helped me so much to understand how my childhood social routines really really illuded to my autism. I went to a Montessori school until about 4th grade, and many students there were on the spectrum, I really fit in with the group physical games (playing vampires vs warewolves, tag, exploring the nearby pond, etc) but when i transferred to "normal" school I couldn't fit into the female cliques or I would end up at the bottom of their social group and would be the one always left out or picked on. Since then I gravitated towards hanging out with boys, but once puberty hit they only saw me as a potential partner. This has made it sooo hard to make male friends, but I had no idea that other autistic girls gravitated more towards boys!
Yes! I really wish it were easier to make platonic male friends. It's never really talked about, but, for me personally, being surrounding by the right group of guys can have a really calming and relaxing effect. I like that men are typically more direct with thoughts and feelings because I don't have to exhaust myself trying 'figure out what they actually mean,' if that makes sense.
Everything you have said is an exact description of my experiences of friendship. I still get really upset that my friendships are not very long lasting.
I’m not autistic, but I am a highly sensitive person and I have c-ptsd and I could relate so much to what you said. It’s like you perfectly put into words my experiences
It's so creepy, your life choices and stories are also mine. Without my diagnosis, you prove I am on the spectrum.
58:12 Balancing the loneliness and comfortability ... this reminded me of the Hedgehog's dilemma described by the philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. I like his ideal solution although there is probably a great deal of variation across people in the extent to which it can be achieved: "Yet whoever has a great deal of internal warmth of his own will prefer to keep away from society in order to avoid giving or receiving trouble or annoyance."
Thanks for this made me feel comforted
Touch , and the eye contact , that’s how you convey love
Hi Irene, thank you for creating a video about this! I can relate to so much of it. The depletion of energy after phone calls or gatherings is unreal and always has been... it takes me days to fully recover and recharge.
I have a terrible habit of canceling plans last minute and while it's no excuse, I have both generalized anxiety and social anxiety. Because of this, 9 times out of 10 I'll get a migraine before most social events. It's also not that I don't want to hang out , I just typically always spiral in a negative loop as soon as the event is over. The following few days my brain will continuously replay everything that was said, facial expressions that were made that I had trouble reading, and so on. I won't list them all, but during the event,
-I have to focus on trying to make sure that I don't accidentally make any rude facial expressions (I have a very expressive face which has gotten me in trouble quite a bit in the past. Most of the time I'm not even unaware of the face I made that upset the other person.)
-That my stims are subtle
-I usually can't figure out what to do with my hands (because of this, I usually just clasp them together or bury them between my thighs if we're sitting)
-I struggle giving my full attention because of surrounding noises and I'm doomed if there's more than one convo happening in the group (I'm hoping to get evaluated for Auditory Processing Disorder in addition to ASD/ADHD)
-I typically internally panic that I'm giving just the right amount of eye contact (which took years of practice but is still extremely exhausting), or I usually have to figure out subtle ways to avert their eyes away if I feel they're giving me more eye contact than I'm comfortable with
My grade school experience was very similar. I too jumped between friend groups and preferred hanging with boys. Being a kid is tough enough but it sucks when everyone else seems to understand social cues except you.
Thank you again for this content and I love the snippet from the new Batman movie! We just watched it on HBO the other day and I loved that part😍
Watching your videos feel like talking to a friend, thanks ❤
I find that people who want to get to know me make more of an effort with me than I do with them. Luckily they are very understanding and non-judgemental, but I do find it hard to make deep meaningful friendships. This video has come right on time for me. It makes me feel heard and less alone because you understand me as I am, if that makes sense.
I always feel like I connect most easily with animals. Animals become my best friends and they just make me feel like I can be my complete self, and they give me confidence to meet others. ♥️
I have also found that people can use friendships like a drug. I have often wondered if it related to INFJ energy. It can make you feel like an empty Capri Sun pouch.
Oooh wenzes talks about this, you are the drug. Look her up on youtube
I totally got this!
oh, R-worded. I get it now. That is why I married and stayed married 35 years. I froze and felt guilty. Happened twice within marriage as well. He'd get angry when I did not feel well and I think I had low blood sugar because I was semi-conscious both times. Finally divorced 2 years ago and am remarried to best friend of over 25 years.
Did he call you the R word??
I learned a great thing from listening to your videos ! I learned that it’s ok to change up your life and leave a job or relationship that doesn’t feel fulfilling or healthy! It seems like neurotypicals understand things like this automatically. I was the bullied kid in school so I thought because I was so low in the social hierarchy I had to stay with people I didn’t really like. I think my parents also have autism and adhd (and not the most popular in school) so they actually taught me some of these behaviors, because that’s how they saw themselves, and it was just a natural thing for them to behave this way. I often felt guilty for years after a friendship break up because my former friends blamed it on me. I think I just couldn’t live up to their projections and expectations so they left or I left. I feel that’s ok, life goes on and you figure stuff out bit by bit. I haven’t found a way to get enough accommodations to hold a job or find the right people to be close friends with yet, but maybe it will come to me. I don’t know where to look, but your channel have been a comforting space, thank you for all the energy you put into this channel!
thanks for sharing, I'm often very hard on myself for not having/being able to keep up friendships so it makes me feel a bit better to know im not the only one and it doesn't mean I'm pathetic or unworthy of friends, I just haven't found the right ones yet.
This is crazy to me. I'm 33 and I've never heard a more accurate description of how I feel about friendships in my life. I've always struggled to maintain friendships and in the end wondered what tf is wrong with me? I've recently started thinking I might be high masking with autism and this really hits home...
I am selfdiagnosed ND and just lost at very good friend as we got too close and they felt like you explained as they are ND too.
It has really been hard for me but I feel this video makes me understand them a little better.
I don't know if we will ever get back to being friends, we have a social gathering every Thursday that we both attend, Thursday last week this happened so I didn't attend as I didn't want to see them and it took allot on me.
Thursday this week we both attended but it was super awkward, not talking to each other at all almost like ignoring that this person is in the same room as you.
It was so weird not hugging as usual, not having our usual laughs together and all of that, but I respect their decision to wanting to end the friendship and needing space.
I think I was too reliant on them, as they were my only go to friend, and I need to find someone new.
I just found your channel and I have to tell you I relate to everything you talk about in this video, you're very articulate and explain very well. Thank you!
Omg when you said having things be neutral . I have learn that expectations trigger my ptsd. This has helped me manage allot better
this video makes me feel so seen and so much more understanding of myself. reaching burnout within friendships is something i have experienced a lot in my life and i always thought i was just a bad person so hearing that this is just something other people experience as an autistic person is very comforting
Resonated so much with the morals thing and burning bridges and honestly the entire video, thank u so much for talking about this n making this video 💙
Thank you for your video Irene, it's much appreciated. I'm so glad you have a friend who doesn't drain your energy! I relate to most of the things in your video. It's so comforting to learn about your experiences.
This made me cry because I am so thankful for my friends especially my bff bc our stories are so similar to you and your bff. Thank you so much
Thank you so much this video literally was so eye opening I really appreciate your self awareness and hope to be like that. You helped relieved some of the guilt In feel for past relationships that I feel guilty for parting ways, or they fell through specially when feeling burnout and overwhelmed at least for me my masking through different groups has helped me find myself but also exhausting having to switch to the script, Having similar interest helps but when someone else isn't connected that way it's hard to keep up when I feel the expectation and vision that they have for our friendship when that's not true to me or feels unauthentic.
This seemed a wide-encompassing video, BUT kept me attentive the whole time because almost everything was so relatable and insightful. I appreciated the neat analogies used too 🙂. You are so well spoken and self aware! Thank you.
Just wanted to thank you for this illuminating talk. I learned a lot.
I feel compelled to take a moment of appreciation for you sharing this with us so freely and openly. Ive often wondered if there was something wrong with me for the way that ive handled friendships throughout my life, ive left many friendships and communities behind often without even realizing why i was doing so. Ive yet to find a place where i feel truly seen or understood and often deal with the projection of others and needing to live up to their expectations. im still working to understand the dynamics of relationships and how i can ensure my own needs are met while offering what i can to others in way that strikes balance and harmony, but knowing that im not the only one who has experienced this is both comforting and helps me to feel hopeful that i will find someone out there that views relationships in the same light and will be able to co create a sustainable friendship that lasts 🙏🏻 thank you
I first watched this months ago and after a friendship breakdown - that stemmed from a lot of topics covered above and I could probably have seen coming - I came back to rewatch. I found these words and sentiments super validating and further confirmation of what I'm looking for in close friendships going forward ✨ thank you for creating this, Irene!
So many parts of this vid that hat I resonate with and heard words said that hit the note in my brain describing experiences I didn’t have words for. But my FAVORITE thing was the double Dutch analogy. Every part from beginning to end. Especially how you said sometimes you can jump in and get it but not for long and that’s so me.
I love all of your videos! They make me feel not alone 🫶
Yes, this! All of this!
Thank you for the video. You always find great ways to explain things.
Oh god, the more and more you talk, the more I realize why friendships dissipate due to so many different reasons in my life. You talking about the validation part hit me extremely hard. One of my longest friendships ended after being told it was not worth being friends with me because I didn't give off the energy that I was interested in them (as a friend). Like I never asked the typical questions of small talk, "How are you", "How was your day". And there was a whole thing that her parents didn't think I appreciated them allowing me over/on trips, etc. because I never outwardly thanked them. I already have extreme anxiety when it comes to social situations and even thinking about thanking them, although I was extremely appreciative of being able to get away from my shitty home life, I would become mute (painfully mute). I've been able to come to terms with these things and am able to communicate that I will often go to "out of sight, out of mind" with friendships. I don't miss people, but once I am with them again, I will be able to remember how I feel around them.
Your videos are so comforting. I sometimes watch them when I can’t sleep. I relate so much to you. I recently had excision surgery after 15 years of trying to find a diagnosis, that’s where I found you while I was still searching for a surgeon. I’m here after that and doing much better in that aspect but struggling deeply with my ND and struggling with my relationships. Thank you for your dedication.
Just wanted to thank you for this channel❤ it’s really important for me these days
Thank you Irene, another beautifully explained topic 👏 😊💓
Thank you a lot for sharing your thoughts❤️
Thanks, you know I learned a lot from you. Distancing, boundaries, or disconnecting is okay or even necessary.
In the middle of the video, but just noticed the bird songs. I love the background sound that I almost missed entirely. So peaceful! Back to the video now
100% resonate with everything you're describing in this video...I'm not insane...thank you
Thank you for this video (and all your videos). I really related to so many of the experiences you shared, and thinking back i know every 'bridge i burned' was easier for me than the other person and i often had a long process of objective reasons, a lot of which i actually journaled into lists in preparation for the "goodbye talk". I did this with past romantic relationships as well and often got told im cold and heartless for moving on so easy even though it wasnt easy and in my mind i was doing what was healthiest for me to do and it didnt mean i didnt care or feel immense sadness. Those relationships also ended for very very good (and objective) reasons. They were emotionally abusive and i wasnt a partner, i was a replacement parent. I got sick of my boundaries meaning nothing and psychs getting stumped on how to help me assert myself and my boundaries even after roleplay of the way a real convo would go (which is how i learned it was emotional abuse). I also always wonder why i attract so many heavily dependant people in my life. Im glad that i have been able to set harder boundaries before a friendship even starts and have far less issues with this dynamic now but its hard work to remember to do that and not come across badly etc. Especially since i first have to know the person is wanting to befriend me and thats already hard to predict.
Everything about this one resonated with me so much! Thank you. This is a brave topic and you made yourself very vulnerable in sharing this. I always thought it was my trauma that caused my friendship peculiarities, but since my deep dive into realizing I am autistic (self-diagnosed because it's a two year wait to get a formal assessment in my area), I am discovering more and more that autism is a better "fit" for some characteristics. The interplay between my autism and my cPTSD is an "exciting"/sarcasm self-exploration.
Your videos are finally answering the unending WHYs I have had about my life and past/present experiences. I am currently undiagnosed, but I truly believe I am autistic. I just don’t know what to do next…thank you for sharing this video.
That was a really helpful and interesting video about friendship. Historically I've sacrificed my comfort in order to avoicd loneliness. But this constant masking exhausted me and the people I was trying to be friends with.
Omg the Coachella thing OMG I relate so much....lol....as an Asian woman, there was so much pressure to participate in those raves. I don't drink either, and much prefer some MJ, so I ended up going to smaller chillhop/lofi concerts that I enjoyed more. Thank you for validating.
Thank you for bringing to light the positives of masking! I love your explanation, and agree with it a lot. Masking is exhausting but is a tool that allows me to be myself in some ways. I also have the same experience and feelings around friendships with women vs. men. I've always been very athletic and enjoyed playing with guys because the rules of the games were easy and I was good at sports lol thank you for sharing :)
Very unrelated but I love that shirt on you. Really brings out your complexion and raven hair 💚
holy shi--I cannot tell you how much I was nodding as you were explaining the friendships!
I just wanted to express my gratitude for your videos and your channel. I have had the inkling I was on the spectrum for almost a year now. I was officially diagnosed a few weeks ago!!! It has been very eye opening to see myself and my habits/ticks/little things that used to frustrate me so much (because why can’t i be like anyone else??? Those thought processes are long gone post diagnosis!) and here you are talking about every single one of them so casually! Your videos have helped me piece together the puzzle of who I am and why I feel the way that I feel. I know “just blame it on the autism” isn’t exactly the vibe I was going for here, but it seriously is comforting knowing that I’m not just crazy and that there are steps that can be put into place to make life more tolerable for me. Thank you so much! ♥️
😢 the
This video really helped me put into words what I've been experiencing lately. Thank you so much for making this!
I am only 10 minutes in but I already feel so seen by this again. I relate so much and I am so so grateful you share your wisdom about autism on here and you are so crazy self- aware.. something I aspire to be. Slowly getting there. I am learning as much as I can and it is so healing to hear about others experiences I can actually relate too. I genuinely thought I was alone with this. THANK YOU! Could you maybe talk in a future video about where you get your information about autism from? you seem to have so much knowledge about this already. what books you recommend or websites, videos.. I want to watch/ read them all.. :D
crazy, I also had a intense two year church phase and had the same realizations.. very interesting
I love these birds so much
I very very much relate. well said and expressed
Being an Artist Educator...this isxexactly why it works for me so well. There have been some challenges, but those have been the exception.
I understand the weather thing. I lived in California and Hawaii most my life. Now married and in England.
I've been having the same dreams the last few weeks, of family alive who died years ago.
I love your genuine happy cute smile in the thumbnail
I love to listen to your podcasts.
I have just a few friends, they're mostly the friends of my girlfriend. But with the one friend I've - he lives in another city and we see us maybe two times a year - when we meet it feels like we saw us just yesterday - even though we both changed each time we see us.
I know many people and go out sometimes with them, but they're no friends to me - I don't really mind them and we've no deeper connection, even though they can be fun sometimes.
I never make friends at work though. At work I just focus on work, but that doesn't mean, that people dislike me there or I dislike them - I just never share anything personal there, but come along well with the others. I wouldn't like to have people from work knowing more details about my private life, I just share standard phrases about that, if someone asks me. My private life is not their business.
Interesting to hear, that you seem to have a different experience.
Greetings.
Oh the good ol' "ya dead to me" switch in my mind (pats the switch lovingly) this baby has helped me through some TOXIC relationship but FINALLY being able to cut them out of my life with the expert efficiency akin to the Vulcan grip! lmao It's literally one of my favorite quirks about myself (now that I know where it comes from lol)
Thanks. I relate to this alot esp being like a old person who likes doing quiet things and the burning bridges thing. I have found that I can only make friends in certain contexts i.e. esucation. Once I am outside of those circles. I have nothing to talk about as I am busy managing my disability in addition to ADHD & autism that i have no energy for friends. I read manga or webtoons to get that social need.
i love the birds in these videos. ❤
I looove the birds in the background
Yes, the struggle between loneliness and comfortability has always been a difficult balance for me. I tend to lean into loneliness because sacrificing comfortability for companionship just leaves me so exhausted that I often can't perform the necessary tasks keep up with daily life.
All of what you said in this video felt so relatable -I feel like a broken record putting that in my comments at this point because I've said it for almost every other video of yours that I've commented on as well.
I also felt more comfortable hanging around boys in my youth. It was easier for me to interact with them because I found their expressions to be more direct. I never thought about the fact that physical activities were easier to acclimate to because the rules were clearer, but that makes a lot of sense. As an adult, I would still prefer to have male friends, but the whole unrequited sexual tension thing really gets in the way. It's not that I dislike women on principal or anything like that, but I just never seem to connect in a way that leads to friendship. Women were also the main source of bullying and trauma for me during my entire youth. Hearing women whispering around me but not being included in the conversation triggers a lot of emotional flashbacks, which is exhausting to deal with.
I have yet to invite friends over to my own home because I prefer activities that I'm worried others would consider 'boring.' I really dislike what feels like an unspoken pressure to be 'entertaining' to others in order for them to want to be near me. I did not know what parallel play was until I heard the term from you. However, that has always been one of my ideal ways of spending time with someone. Reading a book on the couch while quietly sitting next to someone who is doing their own activity sounds so wonderful. Being comfortable with quiet and not always chatting is a big thing for me, but NT people tend to consider that awkward and being socially inept. I feel happy knowing that others enjoy spending time together in different ways that doesn't require constant dialogue.
I relate so much about dreaming about former friendships. So weird and exhausting
I love this video so much. Wall ball with the boys at recess or swinging on the second swing from the right. I do however can’t stand the chirping bird noises in the background. So at 28 min in I may be at my limit 😂💜
Almost 30 and just starting a new chapter of trying to make friends in a new way that is more choosy for good reason. Too many people do really treat you differently when you just say you have ASD… a lot act as if I’m faking it because of being “high functioning”. I finally opened up to someone who works with autistic kids with more support needs and I get the feeling they are trying to find ways I’m not to say that I’m not…. Which is really unfortunate and confusing and makes me feel like I don’t fit in with anyone.
It's interesting because there are autistic people who are full on empathic and sensitive (even without wanting to be) to other people's feelings. I wasn't sure how to receive this video because I understand that Irene must have thought a lot about it, so it's quite reasoned.
That said, I will say that her approach to friendship seemed cold to me - because everything seemed focused on her own needs, when I guess, I've always thought about relationships (friendships and romantic ones) being about an exchange in which I'm getting something and they're getting something.
So, I've never just thought about it in terms of this person doesn't meet these needs and so I will cut it off. I also think I don't assume that the positioning that I don't like won't change.
I do struggle with boundaries and having people suck up my time and energy with their feelings and issues. However, I'm okay with giving something as long as I am also getting something back.
I also think that for me, other people do help me self regulate. It's just that that's usually one person at any given time and not a group of people. So, I guess getting something in the form of skills they have that I don't have, emotional support, etc from a friend is important to me. I guess I'm a friend that Irene would want to avoid.
Growing up, I always had just one friend that I liked to do things with. I need my alone time but don't like doing bigger activities or outings alone. I want to have at least one person there, even if we're doing things in parallel and not talking.
I do need to talk to someone to process things. I've tried talking to myself or to a pet but it's not the same.
Other than that -- shared interest, being able to talk about all sorts of interesting things, quieter pursuits, and I guess even not having the person suck up my energy with their emotional needs actually resonated with me.
Personnally, I don't see it as cold, because I've had difficult friendships with manipulative women all my life. It was one sided and I was basically their puppet and it was very traumatizing to me. So I think Irene sees it through that lens of listing the things she not willing to tolerate anymore, while having some very specific past friendships in mind. Friendships in which she was putting more energy into than she received, therefore, it was really draining and like a chore. When you've been overcompasating in friendships your whole life, your standards for an equal friendship is lower than the average and you strive for the bare minimum. So I guess in my perspective, i don't see it as cold, but I can see how you could have interpreted that way.
I tend to agree with @lunamenv. If it's cold to want value out of expending one's time, attention, energy, etc., call me Antarctica. People will truly suck you dry and then villainize you for needing to heal/protect yourself from their projections of fulfillment or enjoyment or whatever.
I can understand how you could see her approach to friendship as cold.
Let me try to reframe in a way that might add a little more depth:
Before you put the oxygen mask on other people, you must first put the oxygen mask on yourself. Why? Because if you pass out from lack of oxygen, you literally can not help someone else with their oxygen mask.
Assume you have an oxygen tank that is shared by two people. Each person contributes/uses oxygen according to their needs, capabilities, and motivation.
Ideally, the oxygen couple will contribute and use oxygen sustainably and, as you mentioned, in a reciprocal way.
But what happens if one person has a condition that causes them to use more air than they can contribute? What happens if both people use more air than they can contribute? While, yes, perhaps the situation could change, and they may be able to re/stabilize, but it can be difficult to know for if things will re/stabilize before the oxygen completely runs out.
Whether it's from trauma, healing, past experience, wisdom, real or perceived, etc. - some people recognize when their shared oxygen tank is not being used sustainably and will leave so that both parties have a fresh start to find something that is mutually beneficial rather than risk both parties inevitably asphyxiating (or choking each other out of resentment).
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[Additional story analogy]
Have you heard of attachment theory? (I'll skip the explanation just because I don't want to spam too much wall text 😅). Just know that it's apparently fairly common for Autists to have developed "insecure attachments". And, unfortunately, insecure attachment people tend to pursue other insecure attachment people. (If this interests anyone I can give suggestions for further reference).
If we view attachment styles through the analogy I gave earlier, you could think of it as secure attachment peeps can read the oxygen gauge of a shared oxygen tank relatively accurately. They're usually capable of understanding how much oxygen they need and their partner needs. If they know they have more than enough air to contribute but their partner is struggling, they may feel fine contributing air that their partner temporarily can't provide.
On the other hand, insecure attachment peeps aren't very good at reading the oxygen gauge accurately. If one or both partners are insecure attachment, one might see the oxygen gauge as almost empty while the other might read the gauge as completely full. So, you get one person freaking out "HEY WE NEED MORE OXYGEN!" And the other person like "Uh what? No we don't. We have too much." Where, they might end up metaphorically choking each other out of fear, panic, desperation, all that jazz. If both partners aren't aware or willing to try to heal into a more secure attachment style, the cycle will repeat until the pair breaks up (and usually it's a bad breakup whether platonic or romantic).
That's an extremely simplistic analogy of attachment theory but I hope it makes some sense and piques someone's interest.
Hello uraniatv, i'm with you. Thinking about relationships from an individualistic point of view its against its nature. Meanwhile having certain difficulties with social stuff that doesnt mean there shouldnt be a way to share. Even when there are changes, instead of just dumping people it could be a way to find strategies to adapt, specially when there's a lack.
Cuting off its not a great dinamic to support, it s just worth in those exceptional moments when there's a real danger, not some unconfortability, cause we can be unconfy too, as plain as that, cause we're human. Which doesnt mean to just bring up yourself everywhere and be drained of energy when you need time alone. The issues with boundaries shouldnt be projected precisely in this kind of slamming door at nobodies face, they dont deserve the mess of not aplaying and managing those properly, by taking both of people needs with value.
OMG I love this channel
Do you think that like relationships and friendships and all these, one could say, but there's a little bit of a honeymoon phase? That you're curious about everything, you're learning about a lot of things, you're exploring these facets of yourself, then there's this wake up moment where it feels awkward and it starts feeling more Awkward because it's hard to figure out what to actually do and because of that it's easy just to find something new that piques our curiosity and leave?
I totally understand this and think it might be one of two things:
The neurodivergent brain tends to hyper focus on certain hobbies, tv shows- or people. Then afterwards when that has stopped, you kind of feel embarrassed. On the other hand, it could be that this person was never someone your personality could have fully connected with. Sometimes it’s just like that. You will never quite know until you try, and after the stage of hyper focus or “honeymoon” ends, you fully realize it.
I haven't finished the video yet but I wanted to add a sort of reflection on the friendship thing in regards to my personal life (will probably edit this comment later)
Until highschool, I didn't have a consistent group of friends. It changed every year and I felt like I never really belonged anywhere. I remember my mum being worried because I wasn't hanging out with friends a lot around the time I got to highschool
I've managed to keep these people as friends during my school life, but there is only one and a bit years left where we can consistently spend time together and I have to say: it's making me really anxious because l know we won't stay in contact and be friends forever but I really really don't want this point of friendship to end. I feel very deeply connected to some of those people but I don't know to communicate that and my fear of separating from them without seemingly like I'm trying to make it all about me, because they all have their own lives. Adding this to the fact that it's really hard for me to make friends in the first place adds an extra layer of fear for me
Edit:
This has made me reconsider a lot of my friendships and how I want both of us (me and the friend) to feel fulfilled? If that makes sense. It makes a particular friendship I've had that was initially confusing for me make a lot more sense. This person in some ways had a more personal approach that i had a very difficult time connecting to. I felt like there were things I could not discuss openly with this person and our conversations would often lead to dead ends or repeating the same thought or sentiment over and over in a way that was not fulfilling to me
Ugh, friends are difficult for me. They get mad when I don't want to go shop. I had one friend that ghosted me after a very close (or what I thought was close) relationship. Maybe it just ran it's course for her, I don't know. I have a couple of other friends, though, that are great and understand all of my illnesses and don't pressure me. I cherish those friends.
You should have your own podcast.
I discover more and more of your content and feel so "understood" in esp this video. Yes i care, i really about the few people i really call my friends but dometimes i realise: omc so long i have not written or phoned to xy!🙀
And yes i care in a cwrtain way even fir ex-friends but if i decided do...i can walk away from a person like nothing.
It's so strange how a strong sense of caring got seen from the outside as being cold. 😢meow😻🐾
That feeling you describe from having one shot is exactly how I felt when my drink got spiked 😔
I liked your video from April 2022. I’ve always wondered why I couldn’t make friends. I’m late diagnosed autistic.
I related to quite a bit about this video. I will say I am a suspecting autistic person. I have been diagnosed with ADHD and CPTSD. However, there is a lot to most of your videos that I relate so specifically to. I took the RAADS-R exam (which had a lot of weird questions because there was no specification for words like "frequently" or "often" or weird stuff like musems vs theatres and I'm like ..??)
But one thing I will say is that I have a very disorganized attachment style. I relate to forgetting my friends exist, but only the friends that I have to mask for, who I have to "tend to" and that kind of that where I am so fucking tired after interacting.
Whereas for other people where I have discovered that feeling of peace of not having to mask at all, a lot of times I clung to those people and they were always the types that actually did not feel the same depth of connection and often would make me feel like I don't exist. Especially because they would never initiate conversation, would never ask if I wanted to hang out, they would always just wait for me to ask and do most of the work. So then it would be like I have to do a lot of extra work just for one person who happens to make me feel like I don't have to mask.... so then it ends up becoming a masking situation because I have to do the extra emotional work??? I hope this makes sense.
I have that one friend now that I could stay on the phone with in silence, or process my emotions with in real time, because I don't have to mask my meltdowns or act within the "adult expectations" or any of that that most people expect out of people. And being demi, I definitely developed very strong bonding feelings for this person and ended up developing a queerplatonic relationship with them.
So I related a lot to this video with how difficult it is going from one friend to the other when the idea of seeking the group for "this phase of life" never made sense to me. I really wanted and dreamed to find that friend that was just someone I could be myself in all my weird ways and could help me process and regulate when I cannot do it on my own (which leads to a lot of shame when you are unable to regulate yourself all the time). I used to have a friend like this in childhood, however unfortunately this friendship fell apart because of the emotional demand of doing most of the effort in maintaining the deep bond that we had in the first place. So it was very nice to find again. Although I will say unfortunately it is not enough to feel fulfilled. As far as I've learned, humans tend to need a support network rather than just one friend. And figuring out ONE right friend took over 20 years. Figuring out a SUPPORT NETWORK of the right people is asking for the impossible I feel like LOL
OK this is long. Thank you!
wow as a recently grown adult diagnosed its fun, I mean, loook at back and I burn bridges whit friends for really less important (yet for my reasonable) reasons 😂 and I love from one of my best friends that its a relation where we can be objectibly honest whit eachother, trying to not hurt egos but being honest about eachothers if something the other does sensory affect the other for some reason and not willing into figts for ego, and leting life happens also, we do not constantly reach for the atention and revalidation, but if some do its like oh imissyou let me know(? but chill, and actually not clubbing, maybe some concert once in a wile, or just be in eachothers house and talk, maybe listen music, even if that months or even years of distance between events Ive got like maybe tree grirls like deeping meaningfull friends and they all share that pattern 😂💕
6:40 I relate to that so strongly
I can relate to your church experience but in a spiritual group
Damn too much of this is too relatable.
With me I'm often pretty forgetful or burnt out to really have in depth conversations with most people
Uh-oh. I relate to 200% of this video. Maybe I should try to get diagnosed. I was sadly discarded already but it’ll still be good to know.
I had this issue once. Was accused of being extremely selfish because i missed his wedding but he thought it was ok to ditch on me last minute when i had a painting job for him, me fully intending to pay him for it and not mess him around. Its one rule for him and another for the autistic among us. I think in the end he probably just tired of my company and wanted to move on with his life. Tbh i should not have been friends with him in the first place as i was using him to fill a friendship void in my own life. I knew him since college and we were both part of the uncool clique, living amd exisiting outside of the cool crowd within the college environmenr. Friends for friendship sake despite having very little in common in terms of subjects studied or hobbies.
That being said college was finished 25 years ago amd that same college ceased to exist nearly 10 years ago so its fair to say everyone has or should have moved on with their lives by now.
I think its hard to reverse the trend as you get deeper into adulthood as other issues tend to take up most of your time and energy, dealing wirh immediate family,, work,money, love life, other people and interests. Maybe as you reflect on your ealroer years as you age you wish things couldve been different, why did i allow the bullies to abuse me, why didnt i fight back, why didnt i stand up for myself ?
Maybe if i did i might have been able to maintain long term meaningful friendships. Think its hard to start from scratch when you are say...40 plus.
Because, sometimes I just need to get away from being or feeling like a shut in.
Are you sure you don't want to just marry your best friend, because that sounds amazing. ❤ I'm kidding, but it makes me really happy you have someone you feel that way about in your life
I tend to forget about them or get tired of having to deal with them, so won't get in touch with them for ages. These days, people badger me to get out and socialise, but all I want is to be left alone.
As a woman,, id say that what he said is *mostly* right,,, id be down for the situation where someone has a lot of power like he described in the male fantasy, but it needs more build up like he said,,, or flaws or challenges to go along with it,, think katara or toph from avatar,, both of them are hella powerful,, but with katara it took a lot of training to get better, and with toph she has other challenges that she works through, or like with metal bending, she didnt just immediately have it from the start to be cool and different, she was already cool and different in a way that makes sense wirh her character and experiences, but then she also grew in a logical way in uncovering metal bending, allowing an already overpowered character to grow more in a satisfying way
i used to change friendship groups all the time when having only female friends was normal, but I consistently had the same friends when there was no gender rules applied. since kindergarten i always felt more comfortable with boys because we wanted to play the same games, and I didn't understand "playing house" like most of the other girls did. when I got to primary school, and the societal expectation that little girls were friends with little girls and little boys were friends with little boys became more present to me, I spent so much time flitting between female friend groups, while usually having the best time connecting with the boys in my class during lessons. i was happy when at age 11, it was suddenly acceptable to "hang out" with boys. but we wouldn't be playing or talking about normal stuff, we would be sitting around and flirting. i had a much better time socialising at high school, I would go between my male friends and a female group that I would hang out with for learning how to be a girl. the first year of high school sucked so much because I only had female friends, I have no photos of that year, I deleted them all. but at 14, I finally met MY PEOPLE - metalheads - the majority of whom were males, and we just got up to the most stupid feral stuff, I never had to act a certain way around guys when my female "friends" weren't there to police my behaviour. I run into those guys from time to time and I still feel unjudged. but every female "friend" I had prior to age 17 that I ever ran into judged me harder in my happy adult form than they judged me in my very very very sad, suicidal & desperately trying to fit in teenage form. now that I think about it, the only great female friends I have had, are probably all neurodivergent, or very used to communicating in a nd friendly way.
I'm afraid that a more well rounded understanding of Autism will take years. I am using experience with another condition, Bipolar, to base this on. These two things are so different that it's glaring but it's what I was diagnosed with instead of Autism so I have an interest in it. The media shapes what most people will know about any condition and they are more about selling subscriptions and ads that they are about social sciences or fairness.
I moved around a lot as a kid even now as a 33-year-old I haven't had much longer than 2 years in most places since I was 11
Even before that, I moved schools after elementary school where all my friends I grew up with went to the bigger school
My mom moved me to a smaller school
While I believe that was the best school as it wasn't overwhelming
I felt like the people there were only my friend out of pity
When I would make friends and we moved again I started to try and keep people at arm's length
I didn't want to make friends just to lose them because we moved again
I will say I have the same BFF from 7th grade
She had friends she had known for year's but when they decided they didn't like me because I wore Star Wars shoes
But she stood up for me and chose to be my friend
She became the most important person in my life
I wasn't family I wasn't an obligation but she chose me
I felt so confused but pleasantly confused
Even in high school, it felt like I was a school friend but not one you invited over
Unless your parents felt bad
I was always polite and happy to clean up after myself
I just never understood what I did that made people not be my friends like the kind I saw in films tv and books
Even in college although I made myself break out of my shell I once again felt like I was just invited because the theater group was small
And it would be too obvious that they didn't invite one person