Thank you for the kind comment it means a lot! I'll make sure to tell my old man, he is a wealth of knowledge. I wish I had more videos of him teaching stuff! Thanks you again so very much for watching!
Awesome video, even though it’s rather old. 50 years of information jammed into a short video. Thank you so much for teaching another generation of how to do real work with expertise.
Thank you VERY much! That means a lot! Good luck on all your engine building endeavors! Please subscribe for more engine building stuff! We will get more videos up one of these days! Thank you!
Oh man this video has definitely cleared up a lot of questions i have had about cylinder honing explained really clearly well 100x better than my auto instructor taught me!!!! Great stuff thank you so much!!!!!
I'm using a plateau hone tool made by Lisle to remove flat spots and vertical scratches/grooves using 80, 180 & 280 grit stones on a Hyundai 2.4 I4. The engine has thin steel sleeves pressed into the aluminum block. I don't want to take away too much material from the steel sleeves via the honing process. Would leaving a shallow and narrow vertical groove in the bore effect compression and oil burn that much? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for watching. My old man said you don't want any vertical grooves, ring could snag and you could have compression loss. Best thing to do is make sure it has nice cross hatch with a flex hone. Thanks!
Thanks for the kind comments. My old man has been an engine builder for years and years... Glad he is able to pass on some of his knowledge, we're going to fire up the 408 soon... It's been a long time coming. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for a great video - this is realy wisdom for a lot of us and I’m looking forward to watch your other videos. I’m about to replace bearing rings and wondering if I should hone with both stone and flexhoner as you do in the video. Or is it only necessary with the flexhoner? The cylinder has not been bored, scored or anythin and messauring of cylinder diameter shows horizontal ovality - less than 0.001 inch. Thanks again
Thank you for watching. The old man knows his stuff and he REALLY likes to share his knowledge with everyone. I have some more videos on my channel that you might like. We are going to try and finish up this 408 winter of 2019/20. You know how life gets in the way, lol.... Engine has been 8 years in the making! My old man said that the flex hone should be fine. just make sure you clean it well with Dawn dish soap after and blow it off good. Then coat the thing in WD40 unless you're going to paint it right away. Good luck brother!
Invest in a honing tank it will make a difference you wont believe. A simple metal or plastic tub under the stand and a decent pump. Does not have to be a flood flow equal to a solvent tank would work. make some simple shields to control the splash. 2 Quarts atf 1 quart 30wt 1 quart Kerosene. If the stones seem to be loading up add kerosene, use heavy pressure as much as you can control to avoid taper. Ruff and shape to withing .003 with ruff stones. Finish to size with a very fine stone 400 grit. use a 600 grit ball hone to debure. (you have to special order those) Always do short strokes at the bottom between full strokes if it is tapered smaller at the top thats easy to bring back if its smaller at the bottom it can be impossible to get straight again. This is 30 years + of professional experience. take it or leave it .
Why would you comment on a video explaining and showing how to do what you’re explaining in the comments? It’s ignorant and unwanted... make your own tutorial if you want to be informative
@@matthewcarkner3687 his info Is correct, while the original video is correct also, he just added additional info and procedures that apply. Both are old outdated methods when dealing with today's rings and cylinder surfaces. This applies more to old cast iron rings/moly, rings today are far more advanced and require totally different cylinder surface finishes. If your not using a profilometer these days your not doing it right.
Haha! Thank you very much for watching! The old man and I still need to finish up this engine, I can't believe it's been so darn long! We're going to get to it this winter, so subscribe if you want to see more!
I'm so happy I found this,🙏🏼🙏🏼👏🏼🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽this is learning valuable information on how to properly hone a block at home the rite way 🙌🏽🙌🏽and it's coming from an OG in the industry in engine machining
Thank you so much, we are getting ready to finish this engine over the winter, so stay tuned! I'll tell my old man about all your kind comments, thank you!
Excellent video! I'm just wondering why you guys don't use any oil as a lubricant. I am just few days before I want to deglaze my engine but I have that 3 stone hone and I'm wondering if I should use some lubricant or not. The principle is in general almost the same it's a stone honing, it's not that flexible stuff. So why you don't use it and what should I do, lubricate or not? Thanks a lot!
Thanks for watching. I'd have to ask my old man for sure. I'll do that and get back to you! I have a feeling he is going to say not to use any lube since it would just cake into the hone, but I don't know for sure and don't want to give you the wrong advice. I'll let you know for sure.
Where did you get 300 grit stones? Finest i can find for the lysle 1500 is the 280 gritt. Then i have a 320 gritt dinggle berry to finish off. Im trying to find 300 grit stones. Please advise 🙌🙌🙌🤘🤘🤘
I have to ask my old man and I have a feeling he had those stones for a LONG time. I think your best bet would be to call Summit Racing, they might have a lead on something. Thank you for watching!
BarnStangz You are very welcome sir.my son and me done a video on how to platau home a block...and almost everybody is screaming about useing oil and the hone I was useing lisle 15000 hone.you can use it wet or dry..and just got to say love your video 👍
I bet you could build great turbo 4g63. probably not your cup of tea. but with your experience I feel it you could build one that holds 60+lb of boost.
Mikey; I'm sure that the old man could build a nice turbo engine. I actually would like to do that at some point. My old man has built a 22RE and a LOT of 1st. Gen Mazda Rotary engines. I'd like to do a video in the future about building the Mazda. I think that would be fun. Thanks for the comment.
+BarnStangz Sir!... i am well aware of the intended purpose of a torque plate. I don't think you understood what i was saying. Im saying... that the distortion may be greater than the amount of material being removed. Understand?
+Marek Sumguy I guess I don't understand what you're saying. The torque plate is bolted to specs, then honed. if you take a dial bore indicator and go from the bottom of a block without a torque plate hone job, you'll see ugly results. Most builders always hone with a torque plate... but to each their own. I wasn't trying to get pissy with you...
Thanks for watching! It really depends, sometimes you can get lucky with a junk yard engine, other times not... Just depends on budget. If you don't have a lot of cash, look at the yard. If you've got more money to spend, doing a rebuild is quite nice, you have all the control over what needs replaced and what kind of parts. Good luck!
Thank you so much! I am glad that this video is helping people out, please subscribe, we're going to be building an old Wankel rotary engine next! Stay tuned!
How do you dress the stones to make sure your hone isn't cutting a taper? Do you just compensate with your strokes? Eventually you have to cut your crosshatch and cant modulate where you're spending time cutting anymore so what gives?
Dressed the stones by using a wire bush to clean them. Every few strokes, we'd remove and clean them. But if your bore is good and round and the stones aren't loading up bad you'll get good cross hatch. You have to listen to the dwelling as well. I'll try and get some more information for your from my old man this weekend.
Because this style of hone is "rigid" more or less rather than spring loaded like a ball hone or "apprentice propeller" as I've heard them called I believe this hone will be more sensitive to how parallel and even the two stones are end to end, if one side of the stone is worn more than the other the hone is going to cut a taper for a while until the high spot wears down from cutting as the smaller end will be doing less work and wear down slower similar to how lapping is done. I'm debating investing in a hone like this (around 150 bucks) but my main concern is maintaining the geometry of the hone because it is not "driven" by the bore as much as a ball hone or tri-stone. I had someone from the machinist facebook group sugges that if possible (in the case of a motorcycle cylinder) alternate from one side of the cylinder to the other sticking the hone in each side.
@@Max_Marz these types of micrometer adjustable hones require maintenance, you can maintain by measuring the stones installed in the tool using a micrometer or using prussian blue on the stones in a known good bore and marking the high spots and then dressing the high spots down using a dressing stone or diamond plate, sometimes it is easier to buy replacement stones if abnormal wear is encountered. These hones are not really the thing for a one off, quick rebuild job, they are a professional tool.
@@Max_Marz no problemo, I am not a machinist but have been a tradesman in the automotive industry for 25+ years and know a thing or two about machining processes etc
Would it be possible to do it with this, all of it I mean. If I want to insert a dry liner of 1.5 mm thickness, could I use this first with rough stones then smoother ones.
I hone completely dry, the rpm is slow and I find that I only stroke for so long before the stones "load up" with fine particles that they need cleaned. I also think that honing this way allows for more control since you would be cleaning with a rag and taking exact measurements. I also think that depending on what the stones are made up might dictate if you could use a lube or flushing fluid while honing. Good luck!
Block was bored (at a local machine shop), but not quite to .030. We did the last tiny bit, to get it to .030. Glad you enjoyed the video and I hope it helped you. We're are gearing up to do more videos early this spring (2015). Stay tuned!
Wow, yeah, that's crazy! I can't imagine anything like that would happen in the US, maybe at some point... But we're have such a huge car culture here, people would pay $10 bucks a gallon before tossing their cars. Thanks for watching the video!
Thanks for watching! Yeah, the camera work I did here sucked for sure. I was using an old Kodak Zi8 digi cam if memory serves... The GoPro's today have far better image stabilization for sure!
I do a lot of honing and lapping in the aerospace industry and this man is spot on in his teachings. He knows his stuff...........
Thank you for the kind comment it means a lot! I'll make sure to tell my old man, he is a wealth of knowledge. I wish I had more videos of him teaching stuff! Thanks you again so very much for watching!
Just happy to see someone using a micro adjust hone and not one of them three stone spring hones.
The best explanation of how to hone to size and what to look for and listen for. Old video but timeless knowledge. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
And thank you so much for the kind words, I'll pass them on to my father!
Old school skills and experience that go a long ways. Thanks for sharing this!
Absolutely! And thank you for watching, I'll tell my old man the kind words you said, he'll appreciate it!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video, means a lot to my old man!
Awesome video, even though it’s rather old. 50 years of information jammed into a short video. Thank you so much for teaching another generation of how to do real work with expertise.
Appreciate the kind words. I'll make sure to pass them on to my father!
its nice to see a proper engineer someone that is old school and really knows what they are doing
Thank you VERY much! That means a lot! Good luck on all your engine building endeavors! Please subscribe for more engine building stuff! We will get more videos up one of these days! Thank you!
Oh man this video has definitely cleared up a lot of questions i have had about cylinder honing explained really clearly well 100x better than my auto instructor taught me!!!! Great stuff thank you so much!!!!!
+slim jim87 Glad we can help man! That's what this kind of stuff is all about, getting information out to everyone that wants / needs to know!
Ustam kolay gelsin bana hornama makinesi için neden konuşarak hallederiz Bir yardımcı olursanız sevinirim
Just bought a used Lisle version of this hone. Looking forward to the day I get to use it. Saved this video for future reference!
Awesome man! Do it yourself and you know the fit will be perfect! Thank you so much for watching!
What a great video. It’s like a Christmas gift
Thank you so much for watching!
Rog is the man!
Thank you for watching! I'll pass on the information!
I'm using a plateau hone tool made by Lisle to remove flat spots and vertical scratches/grooves using 80, 180 & 280 grit stones on a Hyundai 2.4 I4. The engine has thin steel sleeves pressed into the aluminum block. I don't want to take away too much material from the steel sleeves via the honing process. Would leaving a shallow and narrow vertical groove in the bore effect compression and oil burn that much? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for watching. My old man said you don't want any vertical grooves, ring could snag and you could have compression loss. Best thing to do is make sure it has nice cross hatch with a flex hone. Thanks!
Awesome video probably the best I've seen on honing guys really should take time to listen to the older cats they know what's up
Thanks a lot for the kind words, I'll make sure to read this to my father!
This guy is the only guy on YT that I have seen that knows how to use a cylinder hone correctly
Thanks for the kind comments. My old man has been an engine builder for years and years... Glad he is able to pass on some of his knowledge, we're going to fire up the 408 soon... It's been a long time coming. Thanks for watching!
Cheers mate, I have been in the game for over 25 years and know when someone knows their trade
@@2secondslater Awesome man! And thank you so much for the kind comments, I'll be sure to pass them along to my old man!
Thanks for a great video - this is realy wisdom for a lot of us and I’m looking forward to watch your other videos. I’m about to replace bearing rings and wondering if I should hone with both stone and flexhoner as you do in the video. Or is it only necessary with the flexhoner? The cylinder has not been bored, scored or anythin and messauring of cylinder diameter shows horizontal ovality - less than 0.001 inch. Thanks again
Thank you for watching. The old man knows his stuff and he REALLY likes to share his knowledge with everyone. I have some more videos on my channel that you might like. We are going to try and finish up this 408 winter of 2019/20. You know how life gets in the way, lol.... Engine has been 8 years in the making!
My old man said that the flex hone should be fine. just make sure you clean it well with Dawn dish soap after and blow it off good. Then coat the thing in WD40 unless you're going to paint it right away. Good luck brother!
Invest in a honing tank it will make a difference you wont believe. A simple metal or plastic tub under the stand and a decent pump. Does not have to be a flood flow equal to a solvent tank would work. make some simple shields to control the splash. 2 Quarts atf 1 quart 30wt 1 quart Kerosene. If the stones seem to be loading up add kerosene, use heavy pressure as much as you can control to avoid taper. Ruff and shape to withing .003 with ruff stones. Finish to size with a very fine stone 400 grit. use a 600 grit ball hone to debure. (you have to special order those)
Always do short strokes at the bottom between full strokes if it is tapered smaller at the top thats easy to bring back if its smaller at the bottom it can be impossible to get straight again.
This is 30 years + of professional experience. take it or leave it .
Why would you comment on a video explaining and showing how to do what you’re explaining in the comments? It’s ignorant and unwanted... make your own tutorial if you want to be informative
@@matthewcarkner3687 A little lernin makin your ignorant little brain hurt yah moron troll
*learning* if you’re going to insult someone, at least be educated enough to come correct. Have a good day “sir”
@@matthewcarkner3687 Come correct? Learn to speak English troll
@@matthewcarkner3687 his info
Is correct, while the original video is correct also, he just added additional info and procedures that apply. Both are old outdated methods when dealing with today's rings and cylinder surfaces. This applies more to old cast iron rings/moly, rings today are far more advanced and require totally different cylinder surface finishes. If your not using a profilometer these days your not doing it right.
Nice work...I also like the Christmas music
Haha! Thank you very much for watching! The old man and I still need to finish up this engine, I can't believe it's been so darn long! We're going to get to it this winter, so subscribe if you want to see more!
I'm so happy I found this,🙏🏼🙏🏼👏🏼🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽this is learning valuable information on how to properly hone a block at home the rite way 🙌🏽🙌🏽and it's coming from an OG in the industry in engine machining
Thank you so much, we are getting ready to finish this engine over the winter, so stay tuned! I'll tell my old man about all your kind comments, thank you!
Excellent video! I'm just wondering why you guys don't use any oil as a lubricant. I am just few days before I want to deglaze my engine but I have that 3 stone hone and I'm wondering if I should use some lubricant or not. The principle is in general almost the same it's a stone honing, it's not that flexible stuff. So why you don't use it and what should I do, lubricate or not? Thanks a lot!
Thanks for watching. I'd have to ask my old man for sure. I'll do that and get back to you! I have a feeling he is going to say not to use any lube since it would just cake into the hone, but I don't know for sure and don't want to give you the wrong advice. I'll let you know for sure.
My old man said for a deglaze, use a flex hone with some lube. You should be good. Thanks again!
@@BarnStangz Thank you very much
Where did you get 300 grit stones? Finest i can find for the lysle 1500 is the 280 gritt. Then i have a 320 gritt dinggle berry to finish off. Im trying to find 300 grit stones. Please advise 🙌🙌🙌🤘🤘🤘
I have to ask my old man and I have a feeling he had those stones for a LONG time. I think your best bet would be to call Summit Racing, they might have a lead on something. Thank you for watching!
I just bought a hone like this, now I know what to expect. Thanks
Thank you so much for watching!
I enjoy watching you - wish I could get you on my 40hp outboard motor.
I'm sure there is a way. If it's a two stoke you could alter port timing, compression and squish.
Should make a video on truing the stones prior to use
Good idea, I'll tell my old man!
Super great video and I'm glad to see you not using oils on the stones 👍
Thank you very much! Glad someone else knows about not using oil, lol!
BarnStangz You are very welcome sir.my son and me done a video on how to platau home a block...and almost everybody is screaming about useing oil and the hone I was useing lisle 15000 hone.you can use it wet or dry..and just got to say love your video 👍
Again, thank you very much. I tell my father when I talk to him today. It is fun to work on this stuff together! Such good memories made here!
I bet you could build great turbo 4g63. probably not your cup of tea. but with your experience I feel it you could build one that holds 60+lb of boost.
Mikey; I'm sure that the old man could build a nice turbo engine. I actually would like to do that at some point. My old man has built a 22RE and a LOT of 1st. Gen Mazda Rotary engines. I'd like to do a video in the future about building the Mazda. I think that would be fun. Thanks for the comment.
BarnStangz I have a 22r in my Toyota pickup truck. has over 300k on it and still rolling.
Yes! a rotary video would be awesome.
Finally sum good advice!
The torque plate doesn't do anything unless you're removing considerable amount of material with hone.
+Marek Sumguy Using a torque plate applies equal distortion during honing and simulates having heads on the engine. You want round bores right!?
+BarnStangz Sir!... i am well aware of the intended purpose of a torque plate. I don't think you understood what i was saying. Im saying... that the distortion may be greater than the amount of material being removed. Understand?
+Marek Sumguy I guess I don't understand what you're saying. The torque plate is bolted to specs, then honed. if you take a dial bore indicator and go from the bottom of a block without a torque plate hone job, you'll see ugly results. Most builders always hone with a torque plate... but to each their own. I wasn't trying to get pissy with you...
+Marek Sumguy you just sound like a d-bag trying to flex his brain..beat it
+E Gibson Nah... you're just a dumbass who wouldn't recognize sound advice if it hit you in the face.
Which one is the best? rebuilding your engine or getting used one from the junk yard?
Thanks for watching! It really depends, sometimes you can get lucky with a junk yard engine, other times not... Just depends on budget. If you don't have a lot of cash, look at the yard. If you've got more money to spend, doing a rebuild is quite nice, you have all the control over what needs replaced and what kind of parts. Good luck!
@@BarnStangz Thanks a lot.
This is one of the best explanations thanks cleared up alot
Thank you so much! I am glad that this video is helping people out, please subscribe, we're going to be building an old Wankel rotary engine next! Stay tuned!
How do you dress the stones to make sure your hone isn't cutting a taper? Do you just compensate with your strokes? Eventually you have to cut your crosshatch and cant modulate where you're spending time cutting anymore so what gives?
Dressed the stones by using a wire bush to clean them. Every few strokes, we'd remove and clean them. But if your bore is good and round and the stones aren't loading up bad you'll get good cross hatch. You have to listen to the dwelling as well. I'll try and get some more information for your from my old man this weekend.
Because this style of hone is "rigid" more or less rather than spring loaded like a ball hone or "apprentice propeller" as I've heard them called I believe this hone will be more sensitive to how parallel and even the two stones are end to end, if one side of the stone is worn more than the other the hone is going to cut a taper for a while until the high spot wears down from cutting as the smaller end will be doing less work and wear down slower similar to how lapping is done. I'm debating investing in a hone like this (around 150 bucks) but my main concern is maintaining the geometry of the hone because it is not "driven" by the bore as much as a ball hone or tri-stone.
I had someone from the machinist facebook group sugges that if possible (in the case of a motorcycle cylinder) alternate from one side of the cylinder to the other sticking the hone in each side.
@@Max_Marz these types of micrometer adjustable hones require maintenance, you can maintain by measuring the stones installed in the tool using a micrometer or using prussian blue on the stones in a known good bore and marking the high spots and then dressing the high spots down using a dressing stone or diamond plate, sometimes it is easier to buy replacement stones if abnormal wear is encountered. These hones are not really the thing for a one off, quick rebuild job, they are a professional tool.
@@2secondslater I especially liked the prussian blue method against a reference. This pleases the machinist.
@@Max_Marz no problemo, I am not a machinist but have been a tradesman in the automotive industry for 25+ years and know a thing or two about machining processes etc
Would this hone open a cylinder enough to allow a dry liner to be fit.
You would want to have a machine shop get the rough size and then yes, you could perform the finish hone for a perfect fitting.
Would it be possible to do it with this, all of it I mean. If I want to insert a dry liner of 1.5 mm thickness, could I use this first with rough stones then smoother ones.
You sure could. It would take time and lots of cleaning of the stones when the get built up with material, but yes, you could do it this way!
good info, back the camera off a bit? Thanks Rog
Thanks!
Do you hone completely dry? I've read that some people hone with constant fluid flushing while honing. What's your thoughts on this?
I hone completely dry, the rpm is slow and I find that I only stroke for so long before the stones "load up" with fine particles that they need cleaned. I also think that honing this way allows for more control since you would be cleaning with a rag and taking exact measurements. I also think that depending on what the stones are made up might dictate if you could use a lube or flushing fluid while honing. Good luck!
Awesome fn video!! Thanks for sharring
Thanks for watching!
We thank you.... Yeah, I'm working on a better camera setup... Thanks!
Very good video. Working on the same block myself with the same goal in mind. I do have a question, did you bore it, or are you honing to .030 over?
Block was bored (at a local machine shop), but not quite to .030. We did the last tiny bit, to get it to .030. Glad you enjoyed the video and I hope it helped you. We're are gearing up to do more videos early this spring (2015). Stay tuned!
Thanks Rog!
And thank you for watching sir! Think about subscribing, we're actually going to have this 408 running at some point!
very nice tool, thanks for the upload
Thank you!
so when honing u always want it .0005 to Finnish with great video thanks
+kris centofanti 3-5, .0005 is probably better. Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
thanks
Thank you!
Kolay gelsin bereketli olsun inşallah kardeşim
İzlediğiniz için teşekkürler!
@@BarnStangz günaydın hayırlı sabahlar olun inşallah bana hornama makinesi lazım yardımcı olursanız sevinirim motosiklet için
@@cesurozcan9815 Keşke daha fazla yardımcı olabilseydim, ama bu kadar uzakta sana yardım edebileceğimi sanmıyorum.
With the UK banning combustion engine by 2040 it will be a shame. It will be IT nerds working on cars after that.
Wow, yeah, that's crazy! I can't imagine anything like that would happen in the US, maybe at some point... But we're have such a huge car culture here, people would pay $10 bucks a gallon before tossing their cars. Thanks for watching the video!
You need a camera man.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, the camera work I did here sucked for sure. I was using an old Kodak Zi8 digi cam if memory serves... The GoPro's today have far better image stabilization for sure!