How to Hone a 2 stroke cylinder. Tips tools and tricks to get the job done right.
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- In this video i go thru the tools needed and the steps i use to hone a 2 stroke cylinder.
Thanks for watching.
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2Stroke Stuffing sent me here!
Awesome!! Welcome to the channel!
Welcome to the channel!!
Me too
@@AdamCourville welcome to the channel
Me too 😊
Its nice to see someone who really knows how to do this the correct way.. I do it very similar just manual wich is little less accurate but works good.. With two stroke cylinders its hard to get them honed perfectly near the ports
I learned a lot from you. I have successfully rebuilt 2 stroke outboards with my Kwikway boring bar and sunnen an112. Information on honing cylinders isn’t easy to come by but you set me up for success and I thank you for that. Wish I could meet you in person and see your setup
Thanks for watching!!
Happy to hear you found it all helpful.
If ur even in NJ stop by
Currently rebuilding my Kdx220r and this video is more than welcome ! thank you very much ! If i wasn't this far, i would've sent you my cylinder, can't beat a pro ! And btw, 2strokestuffing sent me ;)
Awesome welcome to the channel
Спасибо Марк за Ваше очень поучительное видео! ! !
Много раз пересматриваю и учусь как нужно делать. Это лучшее видео в интернете 👍👍👍
Thanks for watching
Love your videos, Mark! They have helped me tremendously. I am in the process of doing a full tear down of my '99 Sxi Pro. I have the motor out and ready to rebuild, but I am actually planning to send some work your way, if possible. I'll be in touch! Thanks again!
thanks for watching
feel free to email me ericksonmap@gmail.com
Great content Mark! Subscribed. Reminiscent of the OG articles from Klemm and Grabowski in the early Pwc mags. Good stuff! Gotta keep the 2 stroke alive!
Awesome, thank you!
Nice info on the 2-stroke stuff!
Thanks 🤘
A lot to learn here, thank you for taking the time to share.
I was surprised how quick each step of the process was if you know what your doing, I obviously don't.
Can you tell us what kind of quick release nuts those are on your fixture?
McMaster-Carr Page:
www.mcmaster.com/Nuts/knurled-push-button-slide-adjust-nuts/push-button-slide-adjust-nuts
What a pro! Very impressive skills
Man I came here to learn how to use a flex hone now I'm leaving feeling completely inadequate...you see the quality of that cylinder...holy hell!!
Great videos! This channel has helped me out a lot. Thank you
Thanks for watching
Great Video,
You use grint 70, 150, and the fine 280?
Ive been veey inspired by your videos and am doing a cast liner in a summit 800. The issue I am having is getting proper hone depth at the bottom of the cylinder. Because the hone is just shorter than the cylinder its doing the middle more than the edges as well. How do you counteract this?
I have a honing video on the channel. You need to lengthen the stroke
Also would of been nice to see how you fit the rings into the cylinder 🙏
Very good video. Lots of good pointers.... I personally like to use a low speed drill motor (using one of those Goodson honing tanks) and do it by hand so I can FEEL the torque and cutting action in my hands. I find that this gives great tactile feedback. You can literally feel when a bore is barreled or bell-mouthed in your grip. But I mainly work on much smaller bored (46-52mm kart racing motors). I have always been personally able to get better results by hand than on a horizontal rigid mandrel machine like an MBB...where you lose that hand feel.
Have you compared the profile results from brushes vs using a really fine stone, like 500-600 grit? Also, how often do you use truing sleeves to maintain the stones?
Nice work....
@shooter7a my hone is not a power feed. I hand feed it, but the arm is counterbalanced. I used to use a drill that worked well, but it's way faster and easier to hone cylinders when you can set a bottom and top stop in the stroke. Both will do the job well. It depends on home many cylinders you do a day.
@shooter7a truing sleeves are more of a rod hone thing. Main thing is to flip your stones. It's all a learning curve. First your learn to make things round. Then you learn to make ur equipment last. As to the brushes and stones. They are used for different reasons. We have tested the finishes of all our processes. The brushes are used as a final set to help clean the iron out of the crosshatch
@shooter7a lastly. Using a rod hone on smaller stuff is common. You can get a great finish with them, BUT it's a much more dangerous operation. Alot of people get messed up doing it that way. ( unfortunately I've seen the aftermath a few times over the years with friends in the industry) holding a cylinders while honing can get someone hurt. It's a much better practice to have the cylinder mounted and have the honing head move instead
@@EricksonMachinePerformance I use a one of those Goodson GSE-1300 Small Engine Honing Tanks (cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1418/7084/files/GSE-1300.pdf) ....it is similar to the tank for your hone...has a similar clamp fixture and an oil recirc system. The clamp holds the cylinder at at an adjustable angle, so you can get the right angle and really stabilize a drill motor...
@@EricksonMachinePerformance yes....holding a cylinder was always scary to me....
Sunnen make two stroke hone stone/guide sets. I used to teach it at MMI (2000-2011.6)
It's relatively easy to get 0.0001" tolerance round and parallel even with the drill motor version of Sunnen (in fact, I find it easier as you can feel the slightest torque variation if there is a 'tight' spot)
You do need a good low speed drill though , I think 450 rpm is max on a 2.5"~55mm bore IIRC?
They are the stones I'm using. And yes for years I used a drill and an111. But using a honing machine makes it quicker and easier
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Ah, I thought they were from a different manufacturer. Honing machine is way less tiring to use if your doing several cylinders a day. Nice set up you have.
I use all sunnen stones.
What brand / model power hone do you have ?
@@123ABC-Machine-Basics Is the question for me? Personally I have AMMCO and a low rpm high torque drill. (max 400rpm)
Sunnen are way more easily available though and also a lot cheaper than AMMCO for parts/consumables
I was about to use the first honing tool to hone my jetski engine
Hi Mark , thanks for die video, best one i have seen jet. IS this proses the same for nikasil 2 stroke cylinders?
yeeah 2 stroke powa!
brap!!
What surface roughness is the best for 2 stroke single ring piston geometries? What do you use to measure the surface roughness?
Have you ever honed smaller RC engines like say an OS MAX .60 or 10 cc engine? The cylinder liners are apparently tapered toward the top for better sealing. Does this work on 250 cc sized engines?
It looks like you spin a wheel on the hone shaft to vary the size of the hone diameter. When it squeaked, you tweaked it a bit. If you tighten this too much, will it cut/grind/hone faster? If so, how tight to set it?
Here is a video that explains it well. There is no set # they all vary on size and application.
ruclips.net/video/a_uAm8LpW1c/видео.html
Your looking at multiple numbers
Ra, Rpk, Rvk, Rk
If you want email me ill be happy to help. I have worked on .5 and above rc engine
I use a mitutoyo SJ-210 profilometer to measure the surface finish
2 stroke stuffing send me here👌👌
Still i like ur videos
Thanks for watching
Have you ever used torque plates and see if there is any difference in cylinder taper and out of round ?
Yes. On the solid case iron cylinders like the 440 or 550 they are used. On alot of the pwc 2 strokes they aren't needed because there is Zero deflection
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Thank you Mark. I have 12 IAME 100 cc air cooled go kart engines. They have a 48.2 mm bore and a sleeve that is12mm thick and uses case bolts to hold the head on. Just like a Harley engine. I am not sure if I should be using a torque plate when fitting new pistons.
@@harleylif1929 bore it . Hone it perfectly round BUT .004 undersized. Bolt the head and drill and tap a base plate or just a few aluminum squares to use a nuts (basically) torque it and check with a .0001 bore gage to see if anything moved. If it did you need to use torque plates. If it didn't you don't need them
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Great idea. Thank you.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance One more question if you dont mind. IAME says piston clearance should be .0035 to.0037 and replace piston when clearance is .004. The big engine builders are setting clearance on this engine at .005 to ,0052. I have found the extra clearance makes shorter piston life. why are they making the bigger clearance?
I seen you checking the cylinder to make sure it wasn't egg shaping. I have experienced this before when honing. What do you do to correct this if it does start to egg shape? Alao, what's your most common grit finishing stone, 220 or 280?
Finish has do do with rings used. That's not a simple answer. It can vary on what the intended use is. As to egg shape it happens from time to time. Could be varying sleev hardness uneven wear, ect. Then there is also hour glass and barrel shaped which requires dwelling in spots of the bore or increasing or decreasing pressure on the stones.
Hello, can you tell me if the brush has grooves to hold oil and reduce friction on the engine? Thank you.
The brushes remove broken iron from the cross hatch from the honing process to help speed up break-in and ring seal
Hello, What grit flex hone would you suggest for chainsaw cylinders with cast iron liners. I will be rebuilding several saw engines soon and not sure what grit to use to freshen up the cylinders. Thank you-just subscribed!
240 or 320 are good for general deglazing
Thanks for the sub!
Man this is so cool. Does it cost a customer a fortune to have it honed this proper way?
I dont charge extra. I charge $65-80 per hole to bore and hone ( depending on amount removed)
@@EricksonMachinePerformance this is a good price for a real pro who knows!
With the trickling sound of the oil, I've already made three trips to the john
🤣🤣🤣👍 thanks for watching
Get that prostate checked bud!
@@JunkCCCP It's doing well, if I don't have any pressure 😁
Will a ball hone work on a two stroke? I heard it rounds the port edges..
It will work to deglaze cylinders and help chamfer ports. In general we only use them to hone the edges of the chamfered ports( basically deburr the chamfered port) if it doesn't clean up in a handful of strokes stop and use a rigid hone
@@EricksonMachinePerformance ok tbank you much
Приветствую, подписан на Вас. Очень хорошая работа.
Подскажите пожалуйста, где можно купить такие камни sunnen?
www.sunnen.com/
I buy directly from sunnen. But you can buy from goodson.com
@@EricksonMachinePerformance меня очень интересуют двойные камни как у Вас на видео, на GOODZON не нашел.
Благодарю за помощь! ! !
Купил такие-же камни, буду пробовать.
Good video! What roundness and straightness can you hold?
normally within .0001"-.0002"
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Excellent! I have a Sunnen Honing machine that will hold that same tolerance, but I am limited to a 2.500 inch bore max size because I don't have any larger mandrels.
@@pygmywarrior3 my large machine can go from 2.0"-9.0"
And I have a smaller rod hone that can go from .5"-4.0"
@@EricksonMachinePerformance I will keep you in mind next time I have a larger cylinder that needs boring!
Im here from 2strokestuffing 💓
Welcome to the channel
Do you recommend putting case sealant around the lips on the outside crank seals? I just spent a lot of time rebuilding a 1999 Yamaha GP1200 Waverunner only for the PTO side crank seals to blow out within a day. Frustrating!
Odds are they where put in backwards. No reason to put sealant outside.
The 701 assembly video shows the direction the seals go. The big mistake people make is putting the seal with the tits on the inside when its the outside seal
@@EricksonMachinePerformance I made sure the seal orientation was correct I just think I had a bad back fire or something
@@lucaspatterson email me a picture ericksonmap@gmail.com how they where or are
@@lucaspatterson there is 1 manual that tells people to install backwards 🙄
This sleeve are Chrome plated or Nikasil?
Cast iron
Good 💯❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
How much do you charge for boring cylinders?
Depends on the engine and bore size but around $55 a hole
what about diamond honing stones?
Diamond hones are mainly used for high production or Nikasil plated cylinders. I have found i get a better finish with stones on high performance engines. But there are tons of different options out there.
how would you deglaze a 48.2mm 100cc cylinder in which the port edges cannot be altered from spec? basically the edges must stay sharp as from the factory as this is an engine for a spec racing category. iame italian engine 16000 rpm with a chrome ring
Is this a cart engine? The safest way is to use a rigid hone.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance yes it's a kart engine.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance just tired of sending a good engine out to get a new piston installed. I have not done it myself in the fear of the new ring not seating correctly. if possible, i would just like to deglaze and fit a new piston myself in between full rebuilds.
@@bigh3053 rigid hone with light pressure that being said I know guys that lightly use a ball hone and haven't had an issue with tech.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance wont that chamfer one side of the ports making the port edges different from one side to the other? will that affect performance?
what grit would you recommend for a rigid hone?
See people on RUclips with carbine bit on a 2-stroke cylinder and you don't want to use a carbine Bit right?
Yeah that's not necessarily correct so using carbide is really the industry standard for porting but if you're porting a plated cylinder it can peel the plating. So if it's a plated cylinder a lot of people use diamond tooling tooling but if you're going to port a plated cylinder your best bet is to strip it port it and then replate it anyway. standard cast iron liners there's no problem porting with carbine it's what everybody does.
Bump
ty
@Erickson Machine & Performance why do you say the tool at the stores is junk ??????????
@Erickson Machine & Performance why do you say the tool at the stores is junk ??????????
@Erickson Machine & Performance why do you say the tool at the stores is junk ??????????
Where im from 40 bucks s a lot of money
When it comes to honing $40 is pretty cheap. But that being said machine work and machining is expensive!! I probably have +$10,000 in hone stones and fpex ball hones. And that's not including the machines or the tooling. Alot of times if you just need you engine done its cheaper to pay someone then buying the right tools for the job
But I do understand money is tight for people
What happens if your bit runs when porting? Is it OK as long as it's not above the exhaust where it builds compression? I've been told it's no diffrent than a scratch that's been in there years, as long as the ring does not catch it and it's below where it builds compression
Ideally you port the cylinder and then bore and hone so that's never an issue. A nic won't hurt anything but it's better to avoid
Those balls slamming into the port edges sounds like a properly shhit idea.
There is very little tension on the balls that are attachedto wires. This has been a tried and true method for +30yrs. It's basically a sand paper ball rubbing on cast iron. I have done over 20,000 holes over the the last 20 years with this method . It works without issue. Thanks for watching
Now that being said you need to use the correct size ball hone for the bore. They are made different sizes for different bores. With a different 1 every 1/4" or so.
Ive been veey inspired by your videos and am doing a cast liner in a summit 800. The issue I am having is getting proper hone depth at the bottom of the cylinder. Because the hone is just shorter than the cylinder its doing the middle more than the edges as well. How do you counteract this?
Need a longer hone stroke