Beck's channel ruclips.net/channel/UCE3qsP742E_SjaYNmkLqPhw Everything i use in my camper van you will find here in my Amazon Store www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvanworld Camper van build parts list www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvanworld Bluetti power banks i use in my van shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=1801219&u=3342811&m=112337&urllink=&afftrack= 12V 30A 360W, DC Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply, Converter amzn.to/3DgouhG I use this scanner to keep my sprinter running and on the road iCarsoft Professional Multi-System Auto Diagnostic Tool amzn.to/3Ly6JgQ US amzn.to/32IPAPj
What’s happening is there’s losses each time there’s a conversion . Battery DC to AC within the Bluetti, then AC to AC (Bluetti to Transformer) then AC to DC (Transformer to Heater). So energy changed to heat from each conversion. Also power loss from cables etc. Also, you could capture and utilise that heat generated in the process to keep the garage dry and warm?
300w that's way more than it should be max they should pull is 12amps at 12v so be kind a round up to 150w.... the that's twice as much power and at a lower speed like you had it on in the van it should only be pulling around 10w of power... I'm going to say this setup seems to be 50% to 60% efficient that's a lot worse than I thought it would be imo. But like I said previously it's doing a job you had a problem and resolved it and I admire that. Its not an efficient way to power things but it's effective way to put it simply. Good timing getting it installed aswell winter will be here before we know it.
I think the display is showing the output power of the inverter not the power used from the lithium batteries. I would connect a small gel battery to the cigar output in parrellel with the diesel heater this is more efficient, gives more storage of power, and would protect the diesel heater if the power station shut down. Using the inverter will definitely be wasteful of power.
That's not a bad idea.esoecially since they use little power when up to temperature only issue being you'd need something like a b2b to charge it I guess split relay would do though.
Yep deff interesting and mildly entertaining🤔love your need to experiment with all varients of available options👍would be interested in a comparison between lithium batt/inverter set ups v's power pack options regarding power efficiency and installation costs, but I fully get the need for the plug and play options the power packs offer, a balanced view is often the best way to make an informed choice in which direction to go, keep up the good work bud you provide much needed info for the people just exoring the full time/vanlife ethos👊ATB Shane🙏
Thank you Shane once I’ve had my Bluetti for a year I will do a one year type review video and give my unbiased opinion on all power packs that I have used 👍
Inverters have probably improved over the years, as I thought they were about 80% efficient. You are going to lose something as heat and noise, but I guess that's better than not having enough power for the heater.
Top end inverters are approaching 90% nowdays but yes it's still a loss but it's horses for courses, Mels set up you can remove the power bank easily and use it elsewhere, standard instalation you can't do that but it's cheaper and more efficient.
Bit late to the party with this... So you're having to use a transformer to get round the Bluetti limitation of 10 amp output on the 12V size, right? Good way of getting round it, but i can't help but think that if you were starting from scratch the Bluetti is an expensive initial outlay for what is only a 60 AH (roughly) battery?
@BigVanSmallWorld A transformer is a passive device that converts AC voltages up or down. I don't care what erroneous description Amazon has, that doesn't change the facts. I am a retired electronics engineer, and I really hate misinformation.
@@neilt it'll be ok mate try not to worry. Research died SuDDeNly that's something worth worrying about even if totally unrelated but part of a huge worldwide piece of misinformation.
@@BigVanSmallWorldif you trust chinglish amazon titles your on hiding to trouble Mel Sorry but he's correct a power supply converts AC to DC a transformer only changed the voltage not the sine wave. I mean this in the nicest way possible but if you want people to trust you you need to be correct in your statements and in this case your not, sorry chap but it is not a transformer it is a power supply, imagine someone goes out and buys a transformer and wires it in and pumps AC into their DC equipment all because you trusted an amazon seller description which are let's face it, well known for being inaccurate at best and total lies at worst. I'll caveat that with, enjoying the videos 👍
Mel, have you or anyone out there seen what happens if 240v or 12v shorts out to the chassis. I guess 240 would just destroy all the vans ecu. The regulator on alternators blow if battery gets shorted out. Just a general question, not aimed at your setup. I was wondering though how a short would react with 240v supplying 12v and either the 240v shorting out to body or the 12v side. Sounds a bit doom and gloom but shows how easy it is with your guy there converting and even just a quick zap to the body testing out things could end in...
The 240 should be earthed to the chassis and the chassis should be earthed via the shore power cable giving the current an easy path to earth avoiding the vehicles sensitive components and of course you ? That's how ambulances are wired, they also use POWER SUPPLYS to charge the batteries that run the ambulance bits. Obv when your not hooked up to shore power three is no earth return path so you rely on a rcd or an rcbo to trip and shut off the current, obv that only works if you have one fitted 👍
@@Dirt-Diggler i suppose im wondering... you have the vans vehicle running off its own 12v, then maybe at the back solar and more 12 lithium. then 240v supplying 240v inverted and 240v suppling another 12v higher amp supply. obviously when welding you disconnect earth strap but here we are always connected. i guess alls good depending how and what different things are connected and if there was a short... from what. with a lot of diy stuff going on its a real random situation. throw in 240 electric hookup and sounds like trouble. i used to convert vans but the new stuff is getting a bit dicey looking at it. good till its not. just throwing this out there and not saying anyone is doing something wrong. be a good discussion on a video though
@@petearnold8020 that's pretty much my converted ambulance system, I have a power supply (3x30A) that charges 3 battery banks that run the van, that's how the original ambulance builders built it, the shore power comes in via an RCD and fuse then goes to the power supply which charges the battery that runs the inverter, that's how professionals do it, there's nothing really wrong with Mels way except it's less efficient and taking into account the cost of the power bank it's more expensive BUT it's more portable because of the power bank, horses for courses in that respect. The issue of grounding in a non grounded vehicle is contentious to say the least especially with electricians 🤣
12v dc to 240v ac to 12v dc 🙄 it is inefficientwhat ever way you look at it and if the thing cuts off while the heater is running you run the risk of damaging the heater its a work around not a solution really
Fair enough problem solved would be interesting to see if there is a way to have the heater shut down befor the generator goes flat i guess keeping an eye on things would be the simplest and cheapest solution possibly a small 12v battery inline would do the trick
Mel, I'd definitely get a battery to run alongside this even if it's a cheap AGM as it will open up a lot more options. Bad points, it will be noisy, no where for the heat to dissipate property and the charging limitations. My van runs everything at DC when possible and draws around 140 watts max including the TV. I have a 2800 watt induction hob I can use and is isolated until I need to use it.
Hi Mel when charging from solar panel , when the sun goes down my box will click from time to time is this a problem or normal? , would it harm the solar box if left on continuous. . Great to listen to you used some of your tips .. Jim..
Its all good until the power goes , i wouldnt hook my £600 diesel heater up to anything other than directly to an AGM battery so it gets to shut down correctly on low voltage
I’ve tested what happens if the power goes off when one of these diesel heaters are running flat out in fact I’ve done it twice now and actually had one in my van when power went off absolutely no damage at all so I have no worries about that 👍
@BigVanSmallWorld was just saying my warranty is void if it dosnt shut down correctly , there is a memory the engineers can check but I wouldn't care if it was a Chinese heater to be honest
Can I ask .. what is the unit next to the diesel heater under the passenger seat ( the one with the white plug , plugged into it ) and what does it do ?
I Can see exactly why your doing this , it’s such a simple solution well done . Does the transformer get hot ? If so maybe put a heat sink on it ( bit of spare aluminium ) , keep it away from that carpet well done good luck 👍🏴🇬🇧🇨🇦
Great video and great solution to the 12v 10+A supply issue. I'm also noticing a piercing high frequency sound from 3:00 to about 5:02 just before the heater settles down. Was that something to do with the heater itself or the 12v DC supply? I also thought that you might be able to repurpose a computer (PC) power supply as they typically can supply up to 40A on one 12v connection and some even have more than one 12v output too.
100Ah LFP battery around 499 1000W inv 250 ish Mppt 150 ish It's always going to be cheaper to build your own system BUT if you want to use the system elsewhere you can't, that's the option your paying for if you don't need that option don't pay for it and build a normal system 👍
Hi Mel. Just wondering if you have actually tried the diesel heater from the Bluetti 10a cig lighter socket? I say this because my diesel heater works fine from my power station. I think Beccy's power station is a Bluetti AC180. If this is so, the cig lighter output is regulated at 13.6 volts. That means that the 120 watts (heater start up) current draw at 13.6 volts is only 8.8 amps. Even at 130 watts the current draw is still under 10 amps.
I have a full Victron system and I've encountered the same comments when discussing running a 240v fridge freezer. A lot of newer technology negates old knowledge but many simply refuse to change opinions. I recently did a video on my own channel showing similar results to what you've had here. Modern kit is proving to be very efficient in converting 12v to 240v but old information is prevalent in the community.
Modern equipment is way more efficient yes but still not 100%, that's just a fact, the real question is do the losses affect your use of the system? No, great 👍 Yes, then do it a different way. I used to run a 240v fridge off my inverter, I just added another solar panel to cover the extra losses from the extra voltage conversions. is it less efficient than running a 12v fridge direct from 12v, yes it is, did affect me using it, no. did it cost me more, yes Did I use it for 2 years without issue, yes Did I eventually change to 12v fridge, yes Do I notice any difference other than 1less solar panel on the roof, no 👍
@@Dirt-Diggler that might be your question but don't assume you know it was mine. I never mentioned or inferred it was 100% efficient. My point, which you missed, was that newer technology is a lot more efficient but people still hold the outdated view that it makes it too inefficient to consider anything but 12v appliances. I did plenty of research before buying anything so of course I designed a system that works for me just as Mel has done here.
I've run mine on a xbox 360 power brick for over 2 years and never had a problem. And it's got short circuit protection and I think over load protection. And probably cheaper to buy than the power supply you're using
It probably is cheaper but then it supply's less power than Mels 30A power supply (14.2A) my power supply in my van puts out 3X30A but cost ni on a grand when new, better things tend to cost more and vise versa 👍
@@wes__snipes cool chap not knocking you or Mel, just wading in as I happen to have ab Xbox power supply in front of me at the time 😵 I use it ti run the 12v lights in my garage, mainly cos it had laying around when I put them in 👍😎
Beck's channel ruclips.net/channel/UCE3qsP742E_SjaYNmkLqPhw
Everything i use in my camper van you will find here in my Amazon Store www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvanworld
Camper van build parts list
www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvanworld
Bluetti power banks i use in my van shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=1801219&u=3342811&m=112337&urllink=&afftrack=
12V 30A 360W, DC Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply, Converter
amzn.to/3DgouhG
I use this scanner to keep my sprinter running and on the road
iCarsoft Professional Multi-System Auto Diagnostic Tool
amzn.to/3Ly6JgQ
US amzn.to/32IPAPj
What’s happening is there’s losses each time there’s a conversion
. Battery DC to AC within the Bluetti, then AC to AC (Bluetti to Transformer) then AC to DC (Transformer to Heater). So energy changed to heat from each conversion. Also power loss from cables etc. Also, you could capture and utilise that heat generated in the process to keep the garage dry and warm?
Come off it Mel a free Blueti is 100% efficient as it didn't cost you a penny. Maybe you should have connected it to the 12v DC .
so you can run a diesel heater also with a 220 to 12 V converter I guess
Mel.If i was you id sleep with one Eye Open , if Becky Remembers your Favourite Pastime 🥴✂️
Haha 😂 to late for that
300w that's way more than it should be max they should pull is 12amps at 12v so be kind a round up to 150w.... the that's twice as much power and at a lower speed like you had it on in the van it should only be pulling around 10w of power... I'm going to say this setup seems to be 50% to 60% efficient that's a lot worse than I thought it would be imo. But like I said previously it's doing a job you had a problem and resolved it and I admire that. Its not an efficient way to power things but it's effective way to put it simply. Good timing getting it installed aswell winter will be here before we know it.
It was 300w because the fridge had come on I didn’t realise that at the time 👍🤓👍
Glad it works because my transformer was delivered yesterday. What size wires you using transformer to fuse board?
It works great if you have a 30amp transformer then I’d suggest you use 40amp wire
I don't think my ecoflow river 2 at 300 watts is going to power up my diesel heater.
It should be ok
Anyone would think you were pleased with that Mel 🤣. ✌🏽
Haha 😂
Iv managed to start my diesel heater for bench testing purposes on the 10amp socket it did seem togo over 10 amps but handles it
Yeah some power packs do some don’t
I think the display is showing the output power of the inverter not the power used from the lithium batteries. I would connect a small gel battery to the cigar output in parrellel with the diesel heater this is more efficient, gives more storage of power, and would protect the diesel heater if the power station shut down. Using the inverter will definitely be wasteful of power.
That's not a bad idea.esoecially since they use little power when up to temperature only issue being you'd need something like a b2b to charge it I guess split relay would do though.
Thanks mel,i watched this a while back and have found myself in a position where i needed this advice so cheers buddy 👊
Working well for you Mel, just a bit concerned about the exposed ac wiring connections at the transformer, no cover for it? Cheers 😉
👍👍👍👍👍👍🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I’m thinking about rigging one up to use when I’m on main’s hock up
Yeah that would work too 👍🤓👍
I run my heater on my jackery 1000 12v plug mel
Great video mel this is what iam thinking doing in my van cheers 🍻
Yep deff interesting and mildly entertaining🤔love your need to experiment with all varients of available options👍would be interested in a comparison between lithium batt/inverter set ups v's power pack options regarding power efficiency and installation costs, but I fully get the need for the plug and play options the power packs offer, a balanced view is often the best way to make an informed choice in which direction to go, keep up the good work bud you provide much needed info for the people just exoring the full time/vanlife ethos👊ATB Shane🙏
Thank you Shane once I’ve had my Bluetti for a year I will do a one year type review video and give my unbiased opinion on all power packs that I have used 👍
Inverters have probably improved over the years, as I thought they were about 80% efficient. You are going to lose something as heat and noise, but I guess that's better than not having enough power for the heater.
Top end inverters are approaching 90% nowdays but yes it's still a loss but it's horses for courses, Mels set up you can remove the power bank easily and use it elsewhere, standard instalation you can't do that but it's cheaper and more efficient.
Bit late to the party with this... So you're having to use a transformer to get round the Bluetti limitation of 10 amp output on the 12V size, right? Good way of getting round it, but i can't help but think that if you were starting from scratch the Bluetti is an expensive initial outlay for what is only a 60 AH (roughly) battery?
Not at all they are getting cheaper and cheaper the more popular they get
Backdoor Bidet. Hmmmmm 🤣🤣🤣
It's NOT a transformer! It's a 12v power supply.
Converting AC to DC is kind of transforming
Look at the description on Amazon
@BigVanSmallWorld A transformer is a passive device that converts AC voltages up or down. I don't care what erroneous description Amazon has, that doesn't change the facts. I am a retired electronics engineer, and I really hate misinformation.
@@neilt it'll be ok mate try not to worry.
Research died SuDDeNly that's something worth worrying about even if totally unrelated but part of a huge worldwide piece of misinformation.
@@BigVanSmallWorldif you trust chinglish amazon titles your on hiding to trouble Mel
Sorry but he's correct a power supply converts AC to DC a transformer only changed the voltage not the sine wave.
I mean this in the nicest way possible but if you want people to trust you you need to be correct in your statements and in this case your not, sorry chap but it is not a transformer it is a power supply, imagine someone goes out and buys a transformer and wires it in and pumps AC into their DC equipment all because you trusted an amazon seller description which are let's face it, well known for being inaccurate at best and total lies at worst.
I'll caveat that with, enjoying the videos 👍
it is very interesting and informative. and you can take the bluetti indoors to charge it up!
Yes you can!
Mel, have you or anyone out there seen what happens if 240v or 12v shorts out to the chassis. I guess 240 would just destroy all the vans ecu. The regulator on alternators blow if battery gets shorted out. Just a general question, not aimed at your setup. I was wondering though how a short would react with 240v supplying 12v and either the 240v shorting out to body or the 12v side. Sounds a bit doom and gloom but shows how easy it is with your guy there converting and even just a quick zap to the body testing out things could end in...
The 240 should be earthed to the chassis and the chassis should be earthed via the shore power cable giving the current an easy path to earth avoiding the vehicles sensitive components and of course you ?
That's how ambulances are wired, they also use POWER SUPPLYS to charge the batteries that run the ambulance bits.
Obv when your not hooked up to shore power three is no earth return path so you rely on a rcd or an rcbo to trip and shut off the current, obv that only works if you have one fitted 👍
It’s no different to having welding done on body panels I’d think 🤔
@@Dirt-Diggler i suppose im wondering... you have the vans vehicle running off its own 12v, then maybe at the back solar and more 12 lithium. then 240v supplying 240v inverted and 240v suppling another 12v higher amp supply. obviously when welding you disconnect earth strap but here we are always connected. i guess alls good depending how and what different things are connected and if there was a short... from what. with a lot of diy stuff going on its a real random situation. throw in 240 electric hookup and sounds like trouble. i used to convert vans but the new stuff is getting a bit dicey looking at it. good till its not. just throwing this out there and not saying anyone is doing something wrong. be a good discussion on a video though
@@BigVanSmallWorld yes but when you weld you isolate the dc system by removing the earth cable at the battery.
@@petearnold8020 that's pretty much my converted ambulance system, I have a power supply (3x30A) that charges 3 battery banks that run the van, that's how the original ambulance builders built it, the shore power comes in via an RCD and fuse then goes to the power supply which charges the battery that runs the inverter, that's how professionals do it, there's nothing really wrong with Mels way except it's less efficient and taking into account the cost of the power bank it's more expensive BUT it's more portable because of the power bank, horses for courses in that respect.
The issue of grounding in a non grounded vehicle is contentious to say the least especially with electricians 🤣
Hi Mel.....maybe you run a small 240v fridge instead of paying over the odds for a 12v one ?
12v dc to 240v ac to 12v dc 🙄 it is inefficientwhat ever way you look at it and if the thing cuts off while the heater is running you run the risk of damaging the heater its a work around not a solution really
It’s not about efficiency it’s about problem solving
Fair enough problem solved would be interesting to see if there is a way to have the heater shut down befor the generator goes flat i guess keeping an eye on things would be the simplest and cheapest solution possibly a small 12v battery inline would do the trick
Mel, I'd definitely get a battery to run alongside this even if it's a cheap AGM as it will open up a lot more options. Bad points, it will be noisy, no where for the heat to dissipate property and the charging limitations. My van runs everything at DC when possible and draws around 140 watts max including the TV. I have a 2800 watt induction hob I can use and is isolated until I need to use it.
Hi Mel when charging from solar panel , when the sun goes down my box will click from time to time is this a problem or normal? , would it harm the solar box if left on continuous. . Great to listen to you used some of your tips .. Jim..
Hi have you wired the 12v transformer to that fuse box to run everything from the fuse box
I'm seriously considering this type of electrical system, so much more versatile than loads of individual components and batteries
I am honestly glad it worked for for you and Rebecca Mel.
Thank you 🙏
@@BigVanSmallWorld you're very welcome. Keep up the good work. And enjoy your life's.
Its all good until the power goes , i wouldnt hook my £600 diesel heater up to anything other than directly to an AGM battery so it gets to shut down correctly on low voltage
I’ve tested what happens if the power goes off when one of these diesel heaters are running flat out in fact I’ve done it twice now and actually had one in my van when power went off absolutely no damage at all so I have no worries about that 👍
@BigVanSmallWorld I saw ya videos mate I've watched everyone
@BigVanSmallWorld was just saying my warranty is void if it dosnt shut down correctly , there is a memory the engineers can check but I wouldn't care if it was a Chinese heater to be honest
Can I ask .. what is the unit next to the diesel heater under the passenger seat ( the one with the white plug , plugged into it ) and what does it do ?
It’s a inverter
@@BigVanSmallWorldI assume it is to fast charge the power pack ?
do those batteries accept solar panels mel?
Yes they do
I Can see exactly why your doing this , it’s such a simple solution well done . Does the transformer get hot ? If so maybe put a heat sink on it ( bit of spare aluminium ) , keep it away from that carpet well done good luck 👍🏴🇬🇧🇨🇦
Yeah it’s getting warm but it has a cooling fan so not a worry
Very impressive
Thank you buddy 👍
👍
Great video and great solution to the 12v 10+A supply issue.
I'm also noticing a piercing high frequency sound from 3:00 to about 5:02 just before the heater settles down. Was that something to do with the heater itself or the 12v DC supply?
I also thought that you might be able to repurpose a computer (PC) power supply as they typically can supply up to 40A on one 12v connection and some even have more than one 12v output too.
I have a 12V 30A PSU for my heater in my mancave. They're usually cheaper and more practical than PC units and no plugs for Mel to cut off.
What's the total cost of all the parts Vs standard 12v install + inverter parts + LiPo4 battery etc? #waffleonawednesday
100Ah LFP battery around 499
1000W inv 250 ish
Mppt 150 ish
It's always going to be cheaper to build your own system BUT if you want to use the system elsewhere you can't, that's the option your paying for if you don't need that option don't pay for it and build a normal system 👍
Hi Mel. Just wondering if you have actually tried the diesel heater from the Bluetti 10a cig lighter socket? I say this because my diesel heater works fine from my power station. I think Beccy's power station is a Bluetti AC180. If this is so, the cig lighter output is regulated at 13.6 volts. That means that the 120 watts (heater start up) current draw at 13.6 volts is only 8.8 amps. Even at 130 watts the current draw is still under 10 amps.
Yes it would work fine but we are using the 12v outlet on the ac180 to run becks fridge 👍
I have a full Victron system and I've encountered the same comments when discussing running a 240v fridge freezer. A lot of newer technology negates old knowledge but many simply refuse to change opinions. I recently did a video on my own channel showing similar results to what you've had here. Modern kit is proving to be very efficient in converting 12v to 240v but old information is prevalent in the community.
Modern equipment is way more efficient yes but still not 100%, that's just a fact, the real question is do the losses affect your use of the system?
No, great 👍
Yes, then do it a different way.
I used to run a 240v fridge off my inverter, I just added another solar panel to cover the extra losses from the extra voltage conversions.
is it less efficient than running a 12v fridge direct from 12v, yes it is,
did affect me using it, no.
did it cost me more, yes
Did I use it for 2 years without issue, yes
Did I eventually change to 12v fridge, yes
Do I notice any difference other than 1less solar panel on the roof, no
👍
@@Dirt-Diggler that might be your question but don't assume you know it was mine. I never mentioned or inferred it was 100% efficient. My point, which you missed, was that newer technology is a lot more efficient but people still hold the outdated view that it makes it too inefficient to consider anything but 12v appliances. I did plenty of research before buying anything so of course I designed a system that works for me just as Mel has done here.
Well done sir 🎩
Thank you 🙏
I've run mine on a xbox 360 power brick for over 2 years and never had a problem. And it's got short circuit protection and I think over load protection. And probably cheaper to buy than the power supply you're using
It probably is cheaper but then it supply's less power than Mels 30A power supply (14.2A)
my power supply in my van puts out 3X30A but cost ni on a grand when new, better things tend to cost more and vise versa 👍
@Dirt-Diggler I agree I'm just saying it delivers enough power and amps to run the diesel heater
@@wes__snipes cool chap not knocking you or Mel, just wading in as I happen to have ab Xbox power supply in front of me at the time 😵 I use it ti run the 12v lights in my garage, mainly cos it had laying around when I put them in 👍😎
Great 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Brilliant 👍
Absolutely brilliant now anyone can run their van using virtually any power station with a 240v outlet.
Yeah that’s the idea 👍😊👍
The glow plug heats up first and when it's hot enough the fan and pump kicks in proper. The voltage will drop when the glow plug switched off.