Torchlight Infinite: AMAZING game, questionable monetization
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2022
- Zizaran reviews on PC! Join the CBT now of Torchlight: Infinite l.taptap.io/xs0Getfe
Pre-register so you won't miss the amazing game going live in October. Explore and Enjoy!
TL Infinite is cross-play ARPG, playable on PC and mobile, allowing you to switch devices whenever you want
,Ziz loves the gameplay and progression, but the monetization of systems is concerning and needs iteration.
Watch Daily At ► / zizaran
Zizaran's Twitter ► / zizaran
Zizaran's Discord ► / discord
Edited by Skryah ► / skryahexists
Support the stream:
Subscribe to Twitch ► / ticket
Merch Store ► shop.zizaran.com/
We have a TikTok!
Follow at ► / zizarangaming 
Игры
I am sure they will "fix" the monetization, just in the opposite way than we would like 😅
It's nowhere near as egregious as Immortal, still won't pay a cent.
I'd much rather just buy the game and play.
Nope, they fixed it. For real. The only thing remotely questionable now is legendary pets which are at BEST a 30% power boost. The game is WONDERFUL and I hope you try it! You can experience *everything* as a f2p player without any caveats or setbacks. I'm having so much more fun than I was in Lake of Kalandra in PoE.
Up to this point they made 4 adaptions to the monetization: 1) inventory went from per season to permanent, 2) pets went from per season to permanent 3) pets can no be rolled with specialization in the type you need (attack/spell/defense..) 4) added autoloot to the free battlepass ... so up to this point they made it better and better with every update
Death recap is sth I really wished PoE had.
How often did I die in an Instant with no clue what happened.
For learning it is an incredibly useful tool.
The devs pulled a 180 on SO MANY youtubers that were given a script which said no p2w and then..
Oh wow, a developer has never publicly said that they won't have p2w in the marketing up to release. /s
Who cares about reputation if youre making earnings as much as DI. Sad but that’s where we are right now.
It's a mobile game. It would be a miracle if it wasn't p2w
If I know something about mobile games industry it's the fact that they NEVER back out of a p2w monetization. Even if they say that they do it's just so they can add it back later once all the reviews are posted
Well turns out they actually did
Wow. This mobile game gives you a death summary on what killed you. THIS needs to be a standard feature in all ARPGs IMO
Last Epoch does that as well and it's AMAZING°
@@marksutherlandjr.2121 Elder Scrolls Online, while not an ARPG, does a death break down with skill names and damage when you die. It's neat
Zizaran checks out Torchlight Infinite on PC! l.taptap.io/xs0Getfe This game plays super smoothly, but concers about monetization and p2w features have been raised.
Ziz sent a ton of feedback to the devs, let's keep an eye on TL Infinite as it progresses towards a full launch.
mobile game market is so huge(since it's so easy to access by just a phone) and every game is trying the "you pay and you stick with my game by logging in everyday" strategy to maintain the playerbase. I wish they have the "pay once and get all 90 day rewards immediately" system just like you, but it's going to be relatively hard for torchlight to be that competitive among other games without it (because their player base can simply quit any second without any penalty unlike others).
That said, very likely, perhaps the POE mobile will too have this system.
I really like this game, it's a good PoE Alternative. Thank you for voicing out the monetization concerns. I really want them to be a very playable and not just a cash grab game.
Smoothly? On PC? No it doesnt, I tried the steam version its not smooth at all
Guardian Tales has a very good way of implementing their "Buy this monthly premium currency subscription" system by essentially letting you buy the thing, and then any days you missed redemption of will still be attainable at the end of its monthly run.
Lol I still got a shitload of diamonds and I haven’t even spent any money on this game
Started downloading in like half of video.
Cancelled after reading comments.
I think there are some people missing the point of the backlash with the monetization. The devs specfically said that there would ge no p2w in this game. Based on the cash shop in the closed beta they obviously lied. So the question really is: What's to keep them from bringing these back in the future once they "fix" the shop?
Have they said anything about lying ?
Its so surreal seeing a new Torchlight, I remember years ago they announced the development of Torchlight Mobile, that seems to have been cancelled and restarted several times
Hardcore player playing softcore game:
"Should I try dying? Do you think they let you die here? I should try dying here."
AMAZING game huh? I'll be interested to see how often you play it.
Underrated comment lol
The game is the most brutal predatory shit I have seen. They copied actual Timeless Jewels, and you pay IRL money for "pulls" on a lottery machine to get the best stats in your timeless jewels.
This is not a great game. They are paying a LOT for Empy and Ziz to lie for them, this is fucked.
@@TheDankFarmer I really was hoping Ziz didn't know and they kinda bullshitted to get them to do this. But so far it's radio silence by every creator who has promoted this childrens gambling simulator. What a joke - the science is in, these things are wiring kids brains to be gambling addicts. Why in the fuck would they be ok promoting this shit to people who trust them.
The devs guaranteed no paid power, i think ziz and empy only just realised they lied lol (previous iterations of the game had no cash shop outside skin categories)
@@Hobbitcraft Yeah I really hope that's the case.
It's named Infinite. Their motivations should be obvious.
Pet system is P2W
I've been playing this game for about a week now. It is very fun, but the monetization is... quite questionable. Looking at you pacts and legendary traits.
I really like my Chromatic Shot Youga build though. I cast so fast that it is hilarious
Definitely going to check this out after this video! thanks Ziz!
I have a level 86 and still having a lot of fun without paying anything, my mates are also playing, which are now reaching the UBER UBER endgame contents, and I'm still trying to catch up to them. And yes, they haven't paid anything either, they just play a lot. Try out the game, played PoE for at least 3 years, stopped a couple of leagues ago, but this game reminded me of the feeling when I was back playing PoE for the first time.
I played this last CBT for roughly 5 days. I was able to hit level 86 Moto Commander with 4/6 timemark 6, unlocking the 5th neatherrealm. Completely free, not a single penny spent. I enjoyed it a lot. Something does feel weird about their monetization, but for now, I'm loving the game.
CBT 💪
the last closed beta is done or is still playable?
@@andited CBT is over. Open Beta Oct. 12th, 2022.
18:30 looks so much like flicker strike xD
love seeing you dive into other game Ziz! Great video!
they added diablo immortal tier p2w, check mcfluffin gaming's video on this. people like ziz were fooled to focus on how this is not predatory and then they added all the possible p2w predatory crap
I tried this for a minute and uninstalled it so quick.
Well that was a useless comment at least say your reason for uninstalling
@@johnmurray1207 yes so useless, just like this mobile game lol
@@TheDankFarmer yeah, the dude needs more info for the 2 other lines lol
@@TheDankFarmer i mean iv been able to complete all the content without putting any money into the game at all
@@Moethemad70 so your reason is because its a mobile game, which is a fair point if you can't get over the fact its a mobile game
Does somebody know if we can change the appearance (hair, face, etc) and gender after open beta?
Yeah I agree I really enjoyed the gameplay too. Crazy seeing that endgame build footage and thinking that plays on a phone. Hope the Dev's take a different monetization route though.
Yet another game with decent game play hamstrung by it's over the top monetization.
Why does every asshole try to justify P2W by saying Diablo Immortal did the same but worse. Blizzard doing shitty things doesn't make it alright for everyone else.
This is not a race to the bottom.
@@VeraciusYT It's like how so mamy tankies advocate for communism not by arguing it’s flaws but instead saying "but capitalism is worse", they don't have any other way of defending it
well the monitarization problems are clear now atleast.. kinda sadge that the game went to shits this hard
Soo a mobile game in CBT is able to implement a death recap system but GGG is unable to do that after 9 years.
That death recap
played last two beta. very fun game. ruined by current monitization. they are taking feedback on discord and say they are open to changes. I cannot see them removing the gacha. but you have to pull for pets, hero traits (new class specs) and even the cosmetics. predatory mtx need to go and this will be a big win. also there are legendary pets that significantly improve character stats. and even a currency drop rate one...
People need to see these comments. This is NOTHING like PoE. Unless I missed something and you can buy timesless jewels with triple double damage from GGG with real money and nobody told me about it??
Yeah it's convenient that ziz just dodged the pets giving extra stats.
And after release this videos and comments absolutely wrong, right now if you play the game you will see that pets gives you about 2-5% of all your dps and thats if you maxed them, so pets gives you nothing, i have 15milluons dps and pets gives you like 100k from this number. New classes opens by playing the game, if you finish story and first tiers of maps you will get new class, you will get autoloot for free too, in free battlepass. You get 9 auction slots, 2 huge stash tabs, that after 80 hours of playing i still cant fill with anything. Items that you use for upgrading and craft stacks to 99 or 999 pieces so you will never see a full inventory.
@@GerriFuryman Delusional
Meanwhile MrLlama's video explicitly said "NO predatory microtransactions!" or some shit in the title until he covertly changed it after being called out by a bunch of other content creators.
to be fair I don't think they were honest with the people they sponsored to do the videos. there are a few creators that had to backtrack or upload a second video talking about the deception
The game looked very promising until I started getting into the pet and pact system.
Why, if the game is mobile, and even good in terms of visuals and gameplay, then it will definitely be turned into a garbage dump by monetization? I don`t get it.
I was almost ready to throw money for the character skin, but as soon as I saw the gacha, I immediately deleted the game.
The mobile gaming scene is much younger than pc/console games. Predatory monetization became the norm very early on, so people have been conditioned to accept it. Nothing will change as long as people keep paying for this shit, and people won't stop paying for this shit until there's a shift to more reasonable monetization. So we're stuck in self-perpetuating gacha hell.
Pets gives you 2-4% of dps, i played for 80h now and pets are nothing. I have 15millions dps and pets gives me like 100-200k. Its nothing. New weapon that i craft right now will boost dps by 10 millions each.
I did enjoy it as well and when I was about 40 they close the beta on mobile :( I was starting to feel the power fantasy. Now let see if I can use my save from mobile on pc
😭 I just downloaded the mobile game and it turns out the beta is over :( When does another round or the official version come out?
My game crashes constantly, so atm couldn't test if pay to win
I played the first three Torchlight games, I also watched your video on the third one, what a mess that game turned out to be.
This game looks like it has the overworld system of Diablo Immortal from what little I've seen in this video, including the "hey go this way dumbass" line.
The menus don't appeal to me graphically, it's like they wanted to go for a Fortnite aesthetic, fair enough I guess, but it's not for me.
The game could be super fun, but seeing how the last one was abandoned for this game, and the cash grab elements that are on display, I think I'm gonna pass.
I really liked Torchlight as a world too... Shame to see how badly they have managed the franchise.
Can you play all the content in the game without using money, or is content hidden behind a paywall like immortal. That's the question i need answered before i even try it. I have nothing against using money on a good game. But not if it's needed to play the games content.
actually, everything is accessible without spending, im currently lvl 86 without paying a dime and it's still a blast, the gatcha system, i didn't even think about it too much, coz its just a very little stat boost, and they will also give u some rolls on it while playing time by time. It's a fun game, been playing PoE for almost 3 years, and I stopped a few leagues ago, but TL infinite made me go back to playing 7pm-3am, the feeling I missed a long time ago playing PoE.
I tried the pc version and its laggy as hell.
The game loop was super fun when I played testing. They did have an auto-loot pet I didn't have. That's already zeroing closely to the line of PTW depending on how hard people are on that. There are almost certainly gonna be mechanics that give players am edge. Idk of it will be flat out buying power, I hope not, but I consider myself more flexible and I would say at least a bit more open minded to some of this stuff then most of my friends. People in my circle are non negotiable, if they sniff an advantage at all its curtains. Game off move on. We will see. Game was fun what I played of it.
Eventually they wont be playing any game because the way its going all games are becoming like that
classic skinner box daily login bonus after paying
Really dislike how they limit skill choices and talents have to follow a trend.
Only worrying thing is the pacts system, which is gatcha and deeply affects gameplay
Ugh. Now that I've watched this YT will never stop playing me stupid mobile game ads :D
Anything with pulls where I can randomly get what I want in 1-X tries, not a fan. Just let me down what legends of runetera does and let me get the exact thing I want with an in game currency I can farm
i hope this make some people appreciate PoE more than they do right now, the gacha and the psychological warfare for your money is here to stay, and it will only get worse
PoE triggers the same feeling as gacha to hook players as in loot and drops, but at least its free and most of skin shop is not gated by lootbox
@@TheDankFarmer Heist, Expeditions, Besteary, etc have their own free storage.
The only league item added in kalandra is just a map as far I am aware of.
The stash tabs are permanent, account wide, and you get them all for $60, which is a AAA price. For endless content the game has, it seems fair.
The Cosmetics are expensive , and there is a cosmetic lootbox, that's true, just don't buy cosmetics.
The day GGG starts selling currency/mats at 800% value, season passes and other scammy things, yeah get angry at them, make an uproar, but if people are in constant outrage state, mocking the devs and constantly threatening to leave the game just to come back again, then when the day comes, it won't matter.
Seriously, be glad the dev team is still caring enough to communicate stuff and tweaking things, other companies don't do that shit, just a silent "fuck you".
Isn't a battle pass something you pay for, but then have to log in and play to "earn"? Not as bad as pay to get login rewards, though some people may have difficulty finishing a battle pass and not get all their moneys worth too... both seem bad imo.
Battle Pass is just something you have to play or perform challenges to unlock. The monetization just seems to pay to win. Which is a shame since it has a lot of nice features otherwise.
The art direction doesn't really hit for me
Zizaran!
I love seeing Ziz as a non-mobile gamer being so serious about giving cash shop feedback. Unfortunately that ship sailed a long time ago and as long as whales keep feeding mobile devs money, there's no incentive to improve.
Agreed. People who haven't played mobile games before, or played them years ago when all we had was Angry Birds and stuff will never understand the market it has become.
Like it or hate, it is there to stay - what people who play them judge it upon is not the cashshop anyway.
wow that game looks horrbile.
i clicked your link!
"just because it's common doesn't make it right"
seeing how they're pulling an immortal level of stunt right after having people like ziz cover the game with the "it's not that bad guys!" is such a scummy move, shame's on them tho, not on ziz
Mobile game is a turn off, but gacha systems are an absolute no go. Back to poe and last epoch I guess
Seems awesome but I think this will be more p2w than diablo since here you can basically buy anything and everything
I have absolutely 0 hope that they will actually "fix" the monetization in the game, they've been lying about it since the closed beta, straight up adding things they promised they wouldn't.
It's actually a fun game but saddly not for me if they keep with that. I played a little bit in the closed beta, then I came to play with Thea, the character that was supposed to be available now, just to realize you have to pay to unlock her, so I quit.
Played the first 2 of torchlight, quite fun. Then they ruined it with this sh*t... You should think big game developers would learn from big fail Blizzard choices in Diablo. Diablo 1 and 2 were amazing then 3 came out... en then mobile trash that they called a game. The backlash echoed in the whole gamescene. Why would you do this again as torchlight?
?? jaja
Seems much better than poe . Think ill be playing this one instead of the dam dead and frustrating poe
When I see "purchase in app" and "0,99€ - 99,99€ for item" in the game description...I already know that the game is P2W...
Well Poe has fucking 300 dollar mtx so idk why this deters you. Simply play the game and find out if or if it doesn't have p2w, simply put it does have p2w, in the form of pets. They basically act as separate skill trees. (I've put a couple dozen hours into the game, and am level 81 with a character that is able to do end game content) it's fun, but it is p2w.
Not this time, this game f2p by 99,5% pets from gacha gives you 2-5% dps at max upgrade. Its nothing, you will have 100 millions dps, while pet will give you 100-500k dps at max on this point.
Can't play it. Crashes on startup no matter what I do.
Why is it ok for mobile games to be so predatory (it especially irks me since my kids all have tablets) and yet the same behaviour is completely unacceptable in PC gaming.
Gameplay is actually super fun not gonna lie. But i don't pay money for anything so i'll just upgrade slowly lol
I only care about endgame. If pet gacha system ruins the endgame, then it is a no for me.
depends. for some, including myself, it completely ruins the game. significant increases to power and or loot drops. hard pass. others will argue no p2w since no PvP. I strongly disagree with this though.
@@declivis3753 If I struggle to beat red map bosses equivalent in Torchlight: Infinite because I have common pet instead of a legendary pet, then the game is ruined for me.
@@Twofix to be fair. I'm fairly certain this won't be the case. you will be able to do all content. I only made it to like level 75 and have zero issues so far. and have seen others say they can do all end game. just slower and with a lot less currency. a lot of people prob be ok with that
There is no pvp… so there is no p2w only pay to progress. I’ve seen people say poe is p2w because of stash upgrades. If people want to burn money to progress faster then let them. It will only line the pockets of the developers and investors which will make the game better for all.
"Line pockets of the devs to make the game better"
Lmao idiot
Lol what is your IQ? You can't even understand the basic notion of p2w. If people burn money to progress faster THAT IS P2W RIGHT THERE. READ MY LIPS. THAT IS PAY TO WIN. DING DING DING DING DING. PAY TO WIN. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. PEOPLE SPEND MONEY TO BUY AN ADVANTAGE. PAY TO WIN. PAY. TO. WIN.
Pay to win doesn't exist only in pvp lol how dumb. WIN doesn't mean to literally WIN, it's a metaphor, win means win quality of life. Duh.
@@agrillhasnoname I have a big enough IQ to share opinions with out getting butt hurt when they are different from others. It’s not like we can look it up what p2w is in a dictionary can we? When you beat a game do you say I won the game? Have you completed it or won? if you wanna pay to get there sooner and have less enjoyment over all who cares? Pay to win originated and only means to me “unfair advantage”.
It's a mobile game, no shit they are after your wallet.
It’s super Pay to win, literally you can get legendary talents that you can only buy with real cash and can’t get in game and a seasonal pass you can buy and the only real way to get the pets you need for stats with again real money
You wrong, pets gives you 2-5% dps at max. Best class is f2p you need nothing to beat everything, classes opens by playing the game. I open new class after completing story.
@@GerriFuryman it gives more than that if you get legendary pets plus the legendary drop rate pets and all the other utility like please do some research before you act like I’m wrong
@@seebablack8267 im plaiyng the fking game right now. i have 15 millions dps with legendary pets, and without it my dps down for 200k, and it will be the same after i craft my 2 weapons that will give me FKING 10millions dps each. PETS DO NOTHING in this game, WHAT utility? AUTOLOOT? THEY GIVE YOU AUTOLOOT FO FREE, just play the fking game and you will see.
@@seebablack8267 legendary drop? RLY? Do you even see what END GAME map system is in this game? 1compas gives you more that all pets))) stop this shit and just play the game for yourself.
Well Poe has fucking 300 dollar mtx so idk why this deters you. Simply play the game and find out if or if it doesn't have p2w, simply put it does have p2w, in the form of pets. They basically act as separate skill trees. (I've put a couple dozen hours into the game, and am level 81 with a character that is able to do end game content) it's fun, but it is p2w.
How can you tell that pets are p2w. I lvl95 and pet give me 2-5% dps, i have 15millions dps and pets give me like 100k dps.
questionable monetization is putting it lightly, but i get that youre sponsored so you cant say too much negative stuff about it.
They need to just remove the pets and add more cosmetics. Easy fix. Who cares about pets in an arpg? (Apart from like a necro build n shit) just remove the pets and the game is fine! It would probably even make the build making and grind even better as well since they probably took Into account the power increase of the pets for the end game and how you'd need the increase to compete in the end game.
IMO, gameplay is very good and so long as you cannot buy power for pvp purposes, the cash shop is fine (to me). you can buy power but if it's for pve then i am not against that. if bobby wants to drop $10k and farm endgame 30% faster than a f2p player, then i dont have an issue with that.
It would be ok if the game was not built to make PvE progression slower than tar dripping in the arctic without paying and gambling.
No, buying power or any kind of indirect advantage (like inventory and stash space) is never ok and shouldn't be normalized. No matter if the game is pve or pvp the only acceptable way to monetize is trough cosmetics that don't affect gameplay ONLY. Everything else is morally wrong
I dont mind the login needed. I understand them and they want to keep players activley logging into the game and playing it. I also understand battlepass. Maybe i just have too much money to spend but i think its a small price to pay for a good overall experience. And if they don't make money they just gonna shut it down. Also this game wont survive on mtx alone
so painful watching you spam Blizzard as a main attack, it's super weak bro lol
Going to stick with PoE this game looks corny as hell.
its pay to win
About the daily log in thing in cash shop. You do get everything you paid for immediately, you log in for extra stuff so it's more like a sale but you decide how much value you want out of it.
Not really.
Hi Mr. Asian. I'd like to tell you that selling you a subscription that requires you to form a habit to actually get everything advertised is not a "sale" and it's morally wrong
@@Yomush isn't that just the same for every subscription based services ? Not just in gaming, every subscription based products are designed to lock in consumers for extended amount of time. no one gets mad when netflix didn't just mail you 3000 films on each payment😅
I'm not saying this whole p2w thing is ok, but the marketing for gems itself seems alright.
i feel like your definition of pay to win is a bit to broad, because your definition literally means pay to play games are pay to win.
verry good game! better then poe atm 🤣
its complete pay to win trash