being bombarded with self harm / suicide threats and being held personally responsible for every single mood and emotion they experienced was unbelievably stressful and brought me to my knees. the love, help and support I gave them made absolutely no difference. eventually, they moved on to another victim
They are like an emotional black hole - no amount of sacrifice or empathy will be enough and it disappears instantly as they now demand twice as much. And when you leave totally drained and devastated, feeling like you sacrificed everything and lost all self-respect, they will probably tell your friends and parents that you mistreated them badly and are very, very selfish and should seek help... Classic!
@@lloyannehurdMany men like that. It has much to do with the ideal of a woman being inexperienced, fragile and young. Of course the trouble is when she turns into a 40yo with BPD who acts like a 4yo.
When you are an adult and not longer being abused by anyone, but you turn around abusing others as a borderline, you are not a victim; you are purely an abuser! Every abuser was a victim in the past. The psychosis of many abusers, especially ones with BPD, is that they still think they are victims. This is a false narrative feeding the fire of their own abusive behaviors. I have yet to meet someone with BPD who is an actual victim come adulthood.
Cait M Yes!!! My husband is very abusive and feels justified in being so. Because he feels slighted or hurt. And when he hurts, others must hurt as well. He DID have an awful childhood- but that’s not a damn excuse. He is 40 now, not a child. We have our own children and he refuses to get help to better himself because “everyone else is the problem.” On the other hand, my mother was abused far more severely than he ever was, and she was/is a great mom! She has had to work on herself and through her trauma for a lot of her life, but despite her severe childhood abuse, she was never abusive to anyone else, ever.
@@Tara-id3rk I'm sorry you have to go through this with your husband. Sounds like a streak of narcissism in there. They also act like victims. And they are pretty damn difficult to live with.
Thank you for speaking to the other side of this. The abuse, harassment, smear campaigns, stalking, etc that come from someone with BPD's splitting is very real, as are the effects on those they aim them at. As a survivor of abuse from someone with BPD, I can tell you, I've felt invalidated many times when discussing it when people, including the abuser, say 'but have sympathy, they have BPD'.
"invalidated" and "abandoned". I see this all the time with my ex-fiance and her family that has it. All of them use invalidation and abandonment all the time. They will use it against each other as well. Deception is a form of invalidation. Add binary thinking to the picture... Cluster B. 💜 💜 💜 💜
@@sgtmuffinbadger6147 Amen! They need to be held accountable just as much as society holds NPD’s accountable. Like I say if someone commits manslaughter they are still held accountable even though they didn’t intentionally commit harm so too should we hold abusers accountable whether their acts are intentionally or unintentionally done.
@@Kayla_Kizzle Holy shit, like yeah and we can trust the legal system in the US to start gathering all the people who have a diagnosis on the cluster B spectrum. Lock them in jail at diagnosis. Not that we would have to personally feed them and make sure they are not experiencing inhuman living conditions with the mass imprisonments and all. Cuz they are the (bad guys) not us. We can trust every mental healthcare professional with female clients not to be swayed by sexism. They will lock up all the abusive Teenage monster girls who get diagnosed with BPD. Because The diagnostic process for mental health is infallible! We are the good guys here🙂👍🏽
I got out of a painful relationship with someone with bpd a few months and I’ve been in severe mental anguish ever since. Over the course of that relationship they were controlling, cruel, and deeply disrespectful of my general personhood. They treated me like they were in love with a version of me they imagined vs who I actually was. I was walking on eggshells all the time, they pushed me to do sexual stuff I didn’t want to and acted like I was hurting them when I got upset afterwards. I bottled up so much emotion trying to keep them happy, I surrendered to every one of their desires out of a need to try and stave conflict off. They went hot and cold on me all the time. One day I was the love of their life they wanted to marry and have kids with as soon as possible, the next they were treating me like a disobedient child. Eventually the situation went bad and he turned on me. It hurt(s) so bad and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to have the fact that people with bpd can be abusive be talked about in such a professional manner. Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing your story i hope you’re doing well I went through like something really really similar and it also ended a few months ago And it helps feeling less lonely knowing that i‘m not the only one I hope you can move on going through this is extremely hard
Sorry you went through this, so did I and now getting out after enduring years of emotional and physical abuse alternated with endless promises that it would never happen again. The part about treating you like a disobedient child is so spot on, he did that when he had his fits of rage. I hope you’re doing better now 🙏🏼
I'm sorry they did that to you. People need to take responsibility in any way they reasonably can, or they should not be surprised they face the consequences. Though, as someone with BPD who's been looking for appropriate help for over a decade and has been working on herself fulltime... It hurts a lot that you can't talk about your 'self-termination' feelings and ideation with anybody. I really actually feel that way when I express that I feel that way. I am burned out from all the stress and I have hypertension from all the cortisol and adrenaline. I keep getting targeted by psychopaths and narcissists because they notice how easy it is to fuck with me emotionally (especially since I have comorbidity with autism and high sensitivity). I need support to weather this storm in my head while I recover towards remission, because I absolutely know I can't break it by myself, but... yeah... Access to healthcare is unfortunately a privelege. :( I'm on the umpteenth waiting list right now...
@@carmensandiego4270yes, I had to leave. Tried to run us off the road several times during his rages (don’t EVER get in a car with them!) choked me several times. And more stuff I dare not even write. I had to get a PFA and my divorce was finalized a few days ago.🙏 Begged him to get help. He said there is nothing anyone can tell him about himself that he doesn’t already know. It’s one thing to want to seek therapy when you know you have a problem. But when you don’t and are physically, mentally and verbally abusive, it’s time to move on. I had to save myself!
My mother has BPD and I have PTSD because of her abuse and the trauma. She never got it treated and still refuses to. I hope anyone who has BPD gets the help they need so they can break the cycle.
My fathers is a malignant narcissist + BPD. Living with him was hell, and dangerous. I’m now healing complex PTSD stemming from his abuse. Some people should be castrated and never allowed to have children.
@@sophiegail7133 yes that's true however when a mom has bpd she's got no clue as that she would be intentionally be hurting the child EMOTIONALLY an she Loves the child it's a DISABILITY LIFELONG an it's best for loved ones family members to EDUCATE themselves on it and GET OUT of blaming mommy when mom's are suffering in silence most
@@im_saved_by_grace I agree except when you said it is a lifelong disability. BPD can be treated and even completely cured with the right techniques for the specific person. Wish you all the best!
I was with one for 7 months. The emotional abuse that I suffered was unreal. I cried almost daily. Whenever I tried to explain how the behavior coming from him was confusing and hurtful, I would be dismissed and devalued further. They are sick, you're not imagining it. They are just as bad as narcissists, maybe worse. Run, don't walk away from these people. You can't prove your love or fix them. They will destroy your peace
@@jenniferklopman2557 thanks & likewise! ... Albeit both are still cyberstalking (non-local friends as well) & physically stalking. I just stay on the move. 😅
If it was your parent, you couldn’t run. I can now as an adult, but the damage done will be lifelong. Though, I’ve gotten much better with a lot of work. I hope you’re doing well. I fell into a few abusive relationships because it was all I knew. My husband however is the sweetest and kindest man, and I wouldn’t have been able to recognize a good relationship if I had not done the work. It does get better.
The worst abuse is the coercive underhanded control and manipulation. The emotional and mental abuse is horrific and often difficult to name in specifics. But it is actually what keeps a victim stuck more than anything else.
Can you please do a video on how BPD ex’s behave after a breakup - faking so hard on social media, becoming best friends with people who were never supportive of the relationship, trying to paint a bad picture of the ex in public eye etc ? This would help many of the bpd ex survivors tremendously to wrap our head around their behavior post breakup ❤ thank u appreciate your effort in sharing this knowledge with us ❤
I agree! Im moving past this analysis crap slowly but surely and just saying I dont care if you label it the rainbow and berry disorder. Im not tolerating any type of abuse no matter what kind or what medical reasoning or explanation for it.
I think the identity issues absolutely can contribute to abuse. My(I'm a woman) ex girlfriend with BPD started copying everything about me and when she'd copy something, she'd start degrading that thing in me. It felt like she was trying to steal my personality or wear me as a skin suit. Edit: nvm, she's a covert narcissist. If you relate to this… maybe look into that.
This sounds exactly like my dealings with a BPD friend, mine is jumping through HOOPS to get buddy buddy with as many friends of mine that I make visible, then tries to compete with me using my own personality in my said groups and tries to sh*t on me for it. odd behavior indeed
@@ZTwo221tell me not that shit creeps you the fuck out I had an ex start to copy everything I did down to applying to my job It was absolutely wild. I felt like I was baby sitting a child.
Same thing happened with a mutual friend (or other friend of the borderline idk the person too well.) the BPD went and got a job an hour away at the mutual friends work after complaining that the mutual friend hasn't talked to them for months. then moved states away from them months later. I'm relieved I managed to keep things online (pain in the ass) but it's annoying when I can't hang with people without having to include that person. Hell I'm even relieved I don't date 🤣@@RyanChand-c5b
My mother is BPD. People don't believe me (except my husband), but BPDs put people in physical peril. She's tried to jump out of a moving car many, many times. She has attacked me without provocation many times AND she also will fake an injury to implicate me. We were in the same city for a long time, but I moved 2000 miles away when I was 27 to protect myself. She will never get well. Needless to say, my childhood was rough.
@@donnalehman1832 A psychologist who specializes in BPD in NYC that I saw for a year. Also, my psychologist who I've known since I was 33. I'm 50 now. My mom refuses to see anyone so it was his assessment after me talking about it for years....at first he thought it was bi-polar but he changed his mind after a while. Just to let you know, I've thought about this for decades and it was not a decision I came to lightly at all. She refuses help and denies there is anything wrong with her.It's sad because her teeth are rotting, she's malnourished, she doesn't have good hygiene. I send her basics all the time - soap, washclothes, socks...we send her money to suppliment social security. I am her only child and no one wants to be around her - she's a pariah. I would LOVE it if a psychologist could help me. I accept any and all advice for a desperate situation. That being said there is always a chance she had something else.
H Trus. Thank you for responding. I am actually in the same boat you are. My own therapist is the one who educated me about narcissistic abuse. I had no idea exactly what was wrong with my mother. My mother was not as overt as your mother was. My therapist thought my mother most likely has covert NPD. She was much more manipulative and calculating than what you described. And I do believe everything you said. My mother would actually plan things out behind the scenes and then set other people up to be harmed. And of course she never went near to a mental health professional. And she did not want me to see a therapist either. I did finally go no contact 3 years ago. And my life just keeps getting better and better.
H Trus. My heart goes out to you. My mother did not physically attack me very often because she would have my father physically assault me for her. My therapist thought that my father had overt NPD. The dynamic between the 3 of us was: SHE tells HIM what to do to YOU and SHE watches. It is so very kind of you to still be helping your mother. And I am glad that you are doing that from a distance and keeping yourself safe. Your experience made me cry. It made me think of a Bible scripture at Isaiah 65:17 which says, "For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart." So painful childhood memories will be completely gone.
As the recipient of borderline abuse throughout childhood and then of course as an adult, I can tell you that it is so destructive to the psyche of a person that it generates massive anxiety, depression and self-worth issues which are difficult in the extreme to overcome and which set me up to be victimized over and over by multiple characters because perpetual gaslighting meant I could not differentiate between their pronouncements and judgments and my own beliefs about myself. Add to that physical, sexual and spiritual abuse and I’m surprised I made it to 66 years of age without taking my life. Thankfully I have had great therapists and church leaders as well as EMPowerplus, a micronutrient formula that helped me heal my brain from a half century of bipolar disorder. I am now 17 years well and actually able to look to the future.
I'm sorry. I have BPD. I will never have a kid because I don't want to pass on my genes. I'm not sure if my mom also had BPD. The cycle doesn't have to beget the cycle. I walk through this world with warmth towards people. I am getting better. I promise you that I will not let this cycle of abuse continue on.
@@Layla-jc2ok Bless your heart! I promise you that your sacrifice will be rewarded and you will have many children in the next life. Thank you for being so self aware and striving to turn your weakness into strengths. Your mother will be proud of you as she watches you from beyond the veil.
@@Layla-jc2ok my partner and I are on the same page as you. I don't want any child of mine to go through what I went through and I'm worried that I would be the cause of that because of my own insecurities.
I was abused by someone with BPD. And I would always excuse it, but in reality the gaslighting, abuse, sexual harassment, even trying to dox me. They are the reason I hate using the word survivor. They always claimed to be a survivor. Which is fine, they've been through a lot. But bcuz of them, I'm now a survivor myself. I don't want to be associated to them in any way. I was only 16-17 at the time. In the middle of covid-19. They really had issues, and oh boy, we're they good at manipulating. I hate the fact they're probably still out there living with confidence , while I'm still suffering their abuse and it's been just a year away from them. I'm. Still. STILL trying to accept the fact it was never my fault
Ive gone through the worst abuse perpetrated by someone with BPD who claims I'm the most important person in their life. Horrible and traumatizing experience
I’ve had a person with borderline claiming they love me more than anyone else on the planet treat me worse than my worst enemy. They are unpredictable and ruthless. And I don’t care what anyone says, there is no excuse to be that rotten to another person..disorder or otherwise.
same here! She was the best and the worst girlfriend i ever had ! She took care of me / she hit me .. she would say beautiful things to me / and the worst things .I exhausted myself helping her .. Its devastating … its been 2 month now and im still .. thinking about her on a daily base .. i wish i could erase and take back 3 years of my life and get my head back …
Me too exactly the same. I've not spoken in nearly 2 months false police accusations. Worse nightmare. I got the courage to leave the relationship with the clothes on my back, lost everything. I have a 3 year old son with her that makes it so much worse.
@@fezzy19 I’m coming up on 1 year of no contact with my BPD ex. If you want it to work you have to commit to the no contact. I blocked and deleted every avenue she had to reach me. Including mutual friends and her family. She did slip through a crack a few months ago by sending me a message through friend of mine I didn’t know she was in contact of. My friend send me a screenshot of her message , it was clearly trying to provoke me to contact her. I didn’t. It hasn’t been easy. I still think about her every single day, multiple times a day. They are a drug. Addicting but hollow and bad for your quality of life. Take it a day at time, try your best to resist their traps and stay no contact if you can. Having a child with them has to make that extremely difficult I’m sure.
Dr. Grande.....I want to thank you for your videos. I was diagnosed with BPD about 14 years ago and have worked very hard to overcome it. Watching your videos in the later stage of treatment has given me a frame of sorts to piece together and understand how to help myself within the context of treatment. On August 7, 2019, I was told by my psychiatrist I won my battle with BPD. Practitioners who create these videos like yourself are absolutely invaluable at each and every step of treatment to gain insight and understanding as we go. Again, I’m just so grateful for your years of study and the tedious and most times thankless work you do with folks like me. Thank you. 🍃🌸🍃🙏🏻🍃🌸
just curious, what exactly does the phrase "won my battle with BPD" mean ? This makes it out to be a curable condition like a flu. Now that you have been pronounced as "winning the battle" what does that mean for the future? My sister has BPD and her problems are so severe it is hard to even imagine that there is a "Cure", in fact I and others feel she has only gotten worse with age. Sad, but I am scared of what she may be capable of doing. She has terrible spontaneous anger that is irrational yet no way to reason with her. She has threatened my life on occasion. Then guilts me if I avoid her. She expects everyone to cater to her mental illness and maybe that is why she is worse now I don 't know. This seems to have a genetic component. She has 2 kids adopted out to different families and both have issues.
Nicolaxoxo1 Well, I’d first have to say if you’re looking at a “cure” for BPD in the same way you would look for a “cure” to the flue, I believe you are on to a good comparison. Except perhaps where the length of process is concerned. In any event, the “cure” for BPD is a long, painful process. The flue is a painful process as well, however, one can usually assume that process is a week on average and not 14+ years. Winning my “battle” to me means I do not have severe fear of abandonment. If someone wants to leave my life, what control do I have over it? None. Zero. So, in this regard, I guess I’ve let go of outcomes. I do not feel empty inside. I have resources internally I need to draw on to sustain myself when others cannot make those “deposits” into me. I have control over myself and my actions today, not over others actions. I am completely non-aggressive towards anyone either verbally or physically, including myself. My self talk supports who I am today. Not what caregivers said about me 100 years ago. When angry, I let the anger move me forward, I don’t strike out at others. To manage anxiety, I try and deal with the anger I’m suppressing and write about my feelings. Triangulation, projective identification, projection, transference are all in check. I’ve grieved my traumas, and sorted out the tangled memories. These things did not happen in a year or two, they happened over a period of 14 ish years. If your family member is acting out in this way, perhaps ending the co-dependent relationship you all are having would be helpful? Remembering that “guilt” is the glue that keeps dysfunction together. You’d have to speak to a professional. In my experience, the person diagnosed with BPD is in many ways simply the identified patient or scapegoat in a family system that is sick. Moreover, the family unconsciously supports this bad behavior to keep the patient the problem so that they do not have to do their own work to get better. It’s as if to say, look, she/he is sick and that makes us well by default. But that’s not how it works in reality. Again, talk to a professional like Dr. Grande. I’m only sharing my experience. It’s a developmental disorder at its foundation in my opinion. One must grow through it over time and mature intellectually and emotionally. No one celebrated with me when I no longer met the criteria for BPD. This is because they were feeling sad they would not have anyone else to blame for their “problems” I believe. But, that’s speculation on my part. In truth, we never know what someone else thinks or feels unless they tell us. Who knows? All I know is unlike if I had cancer and was pronounced cured, the congratulations would pour in, cards, prayers, flowers perhaps. Unfortunately, the nature of BPD, and how the patient affects others, does not illicit this response. Everyone takes what the patient says and does personally so there are lingering resentments. I’ve had to fight hard using the skills and tools I have in order to gain my self-respect and a modicum of respect from friends and family. My doctor thinks I’m awesome! That’s because we did it together. Good luck! Perhaps if your relative is so bad to you, you could examine why you don’t or are unable to move away from them? If someone were hurting me in these ways, I would make a plan and execute that plan to detach completely. All the best on your journey. You are not waiting for the flue to pass with your loved one, you are waiting for many, many seasons to pass and objectively noting the progress over the course of those seasons. And one day, perhaps the fruit will be manifested from this tiny tree struggling to grow.......patience my friend. Everything in its time.🍃🌸🍃
@@gailwestphal1604 First I want to congratulate you. Amazing job and I hope you keep at it. With the understanding that your in a healthy place I do have a nit pick I guess you would call it. *No one celebrated with me when I no longer met the criteria for BPD. This is because they were feeling sad they would not have anyone else to blame for their “problems” I believe. But, that’s speculation on my part. In truth, we never know what someone else thinks or feels unless they tell us* I'm not sure if you went through DBT (as opposed to CBT or some other treatment) but if you did this is, not wrong per say, but a bit of a warning flag. You understand that its speculation and thats great but can you come up with any other reasoning for this reaction? And then ask them why. I understand that BPD manifests in a different way for each individual but this is something I had a really hard time with myself. Don't let what you think may be the cause determine your emotions and reactions. Verify it, though if your at a stage were it doesn't bother you either way then its a moot point. Anyway great post and I'm glad that your better. Merry Christmas.
Gail Westphal you seem like you’ve gained so much insight through this process... so few people with PDs ever even want help, that you not only sought it out, owned your behavior, AND did this while in a situation that reinforced the cycle... truly, I hope I can become as strong as you
After about 6 months with my former BPD fiance, I realized that he read reality in a very bizarre way. Reality to him was "how he felt inside at that moment." So if he felt angry, then ipso facto, I was "doing" something to make him angry, even if I was smiling and putting a delicious home-cooked meal in front of him. Conversely, if I was seething inside but he felt happy and light-hearted, then I was doing something good for him. Objective reality, cause and effect, was meaningless, and his regular explosive rage was unpredictable. It was all subjective and he was the only subject in the room.I realized after about a year that I was developing symptoms too and I knew I had to get out. I realized that he couldn't love me and that what I thought I loved about him was just me loving myself. I was the only empathetic lover in the room. I had to orchestrate him leaving me because there was no way he could have suffered me leaving him. What a nightmare! Unfortunately I developed PTSD from it and yeah...that was 13 years ago but he ruined my life. He was a PhD Psychotherapist with a private practice and was a court expert in child custody cases. Most of our friends thought he was kind and wonderful. Only his former intimate partners understood his dangerous Jekyll-Hyde nature. He hid it so well. He met all the DSM criteria except I never felt that he was suicidal although he was dangerously impulsive.
@Kinky I'm so sorry you went through that. That sounds awful, and I'm so sorry you developed PTSD. That sounds like it's so hard to live with, and I wish you the absolute best luck in healing. Unfortunately people with personality disorders lack insight very often, and they can't see that they're acting immorally. It may take the significant effort, strength, and grace of the person they hurt to make them understand reality. If the BPD person is open to understanding and seeing this, it can spur great personal change in them (though this will generally be accompanied by longlasting intense agony and shame, for them), and may prevent them from hurting others in that way again. This may not mean that the BPD person will heal (they may be much worse off, personally), but at least they won't continue to abuse or hurt others. I know this was 13 years ago for you, and one must do one's own healing first, indeed. But it may help if you tell him how he made you feel. If you never want to reach back out to him, you are entirely justified in your choice. You must do what is best for you first! And you certainly have no moral obligation to try to fix him. But if you think he might be open to realizing that he hurt you, sometimes all it takes is a letter. Of course, you must feel safe, so please don't do this if it would endanger your mental or physical safety! But it may provide some closure, and it may make him realize how horrible he was. And he might change. I write this because I was the BPD person who was shook from my delusion into reality by the person I hurt, who is a fantastically graceful, patient, and kind human being. I now realize that I have to work every single moment to never hurt anyone ever again, and to do all I can to help others. I am still very broken, but at least the world is safe from my BPD thinking now. And I'm doing what I can to repay my debts to society tenfold. Everyone is different and I don't know you, your situation, or him, of course. He may be totally unwilling to change or listen. He may react poorly to a letter. Maybe the best letter, for you, is one that you write and don't send. I don't know. But I hope you know that, in general, BPD people can realize what they've done, and stop their behavior. I don't know if this makes you feel better personally, but if you ever wondered if there was hope, in a general sense, in the world, for people in your position, I think there is. Best of luck in life! I ardently hope you can heal.
Yikes he was a therapist an child advocate 😬 his issues took full court with his clients depending on his mood swings at the moment glad you got out sorry for your trauma he caused
@@q44444q It did help me. I recently had a relationship with a bpd woman. It was the first relationship i had in a very, very long time when i hadn't dared to love anyone. She was undergoing treatment for bpd and ptsd. I was always very aware of the risks since she informed me about her diagnosis. To me it's very important to feel that some of the affection she showed and nice things she did meant something. And i did feel there was a difference between some things she did that seemed motivated only by fear of being abandoned and other things that seemed genuinly caring in a constructive way including trying to controll certain behaviours. If i see her as only manipulative and ill, that means affection i felt from her that meant much to me was worthless which really hurts and feels untrue. So thanks!
One more point: violence isn’t always physical. There is physical violence, but also psychological and also emotional. That’s why Domestic Violence includes all 3 types of violence and on a spectrum. A continuation of increasing severity and frequency.
Emotional abuse can cause far, far, FAR more painful than mild physical abuse, but legally and morally, mild physical abuse is way worse than extreme emotional abuse. This is because bodily autonomy is the most fundamental kind of freedom. The Nozick types argue all property rights are downstream from bodily autonomy. Rawlsians like myself argue most people are too risk averse to consent to a social contract that didn't make bodily autonomy the highest priority if we didn't know who we would be in the resulting society. Less philosophically, people with BPD often "justify" their physical violence by citing the internal suffering their partners have caused them. If emotional abuse isn't qualitatively distinct from physical violence, then, if we squint our eyes, we can see how "an eye for an eye" translates to "a punch for making me feel guilty about abusing you" in their twisted minds. I remember having this very discussion with my abusive BPD ex. I was, and still am, horrified that she doesn't make a categorical distinction between physical violence and other forms of abuse. She could never understand that offensive physical violence isn't just an attack on a person. It's an attack on the very principle of freedom, and it's an attack on justice itself.
@@SynercoBut we don't agree on justice, philosophically everything still works. Morality, is fickle and relative to culture. So subjectively, everyone is justified in their bad behaviour. Eye for an eye has to be understood as being imprinted on your soul, it's like a rule book, and going against it hurts yourself, you feel worthless, ashamed and this causes identity disturbances, diffusion and hella dysphoria. It's mind fucking bro. Lashing out makes it so I almost never really hyperfixate on that bad event, if I don't lash out I sit and simmer in revenge fantasies for years.... The fact I have the self awareness to know this, self isolate and not kill myself from how lonely and resentful this existence is, it's a miracle 😂 I definitely hope this pays off... Also I say the exact same mentality around abuse and I always have one of those "Jesus Christ I have BPD moments", cause I'm not diagnosed... From my perspective, that's genuinely how it "feels". Like I've been raped, cheated on, Best Friend Overdosed, cousin blew his head off, it's all one big blob of "distress". I can't rationalize it carrying different levels of material harm, but even trauma is entirely a perceived subjective experience with no throughline, everyone reacts different. I like to think of BPD like that, there's no stable values, moral systems and everything is judged based off a point system in the moment. I knew there was something wrong, when cheating hurts more than being sexually assaulted, like clearly my brain has split cheating black.
@@Synerco having gone through both from the hands of a BPD person, I’ll say physical abuse is worse. Having someone way stronger than you threaten to kill you and not let you physically leave a room to calm down during an argument is terrifying and humiliating . As painful as the emotional abuse is , at least it doesn’t have the extra layer of trauma and confusion that comes from being scared that someone who should be protecting you is actually harming you.
I'm so appreciative of this video Dr. Grande. In my case I used to get abuse from my sister. One day I was the best person in the world and the next day I'm the enemy. Her anger can get extreme but not violent. She has serious abandonment issues and so many people have just walked away from her. I had to put a distance between us and now we don't see each other and rarely talk on the phone. I had to do it for my own well being. It has made a big positive change in my life. :)
Less social stigma due to the hype of abuse being centred aroun Narcissism. Too often people assume their abuser or toxic lover is narcissistic when i fact it could very likely be something else. Like BPD.
@@peaceunion5316 join couple of BPD groups and see how quickly you realize that people with BPD try to paint themselves as 100% victims and any time someone mentions something terrible someone with BPD did, the people in the group will immediately go to "well that person sounds like a narcissist not BPD"
Out of all the Cluster B's, BPD seems to be most protected when it comes to discussing their destructive behavior. You dare question it, you will get tons of people on your case.
@@CaptainCharismaY2J as a male BPD myself I notice that where i am from people don't seem to believe BPD exists or is a legitimate personality disorder which is terrible. But a lot of BPD sufferers I know (women) all excuse their behaviour and lack self awareness to admit fault and one's part in a situation. It took me a few years to develop this self awareness or insight capacity now I can recognise and admit responsibility for things even if it is BPD trigger reaction.
People call it Narcissistic Abuse, but since it's women, they coddle them and won't call it BPD abuse, also there's a difference between stigma within the mental health community, vs stigma in the greater community. Obviously they deserve help from the mental health community, but that doesn't mean survivors should be further gaslit by people, to coddle abusers.
@@williambogert574 hey buddy, my Ex was a whole 25 year old man and was one of the most abusive people physically and emotionally I’ve ever met. Not just towards me but towards his family. But they’ll just say it’s not his fault cus his daddy left and he has BPD. Borderlines always victimize themselves whether their males or females. It’s just the nature of the disorder. Genderless.
I’m glad it’s being talked about. This disorder is always handled with kid gloves and there’s the implication they’re badly stigmatized. Only who has gone through it as a BPD partner / loved one knows the horrors they can put you through. Based on my personal experience and many many others which I’ve read about, this is not a “stigma” - there is a reason why this disorder is talked about the way it is ; and it’s because the awful things that are said about it are most often true
my experience of borderlines is that it's all or nothing, and when it's nothing they will look for literally any means possible to hurt you, nothing too shocking or unfair. The other thing is awareness and manipulation of the options available to them; many know fine well they have BPD but they also know that to say they have BPD to a victim is something they can blame their outbursts on (so they can do it again, at some near point in future when the mood takes them)
Hi Dr. Grande, for the symptom chronic feeling of emptiness, I believe this could be related to abuse if a person with BPD uses their romantic partner to get rid of this feeling of emptiness. They may pressure their romantic partner to spend all their time on them or make the romantic partner feel responsible for making them happy. Thank you for the informative video
I have a friend who did exactly this to his girlfriend. He also tells me he always feels empty. He has a lot of the borderline symptoms, very obviousely. Everyone tells him to see a therapist but he just lies afterwards and tells everyone he went when he didn't. I don't know if I should tell him that I think he might have this. Not sure what he will do with that information.
Kelly Castro my bpd ex was incredibly possessive, jealous and monitored every conversation I had with any Male. Yet, he used to leave the door open ajar for this woman who asked him out twice while we were together. And in every argument he would bring up her name to make me jealous, insecure and basically show me that if i don’t meet his unjust and selfish needs, he has other options. He would straight out tell me in every fight ‘’if you leave me I’ll go with her’’ or ‘’she’s a good girl not like you, she’s better for me’’ 1 week after we broke up I actually caught him on a dinner date with her, first hand. Sadly I witnessed him doing the thing he always threatened to do. There are no excuses for this behaviour, bpd or not he is an utter cunt.
I second this Kelly. The pwBPD has a natural urge to be served, and is terrified of being alone. Especially when you combine this with the rage and perceived abandonment if the partner says 'no', this can be very controlling, forcing the partner into a caretaker role. If the partner has chosen to be a caretaker that is one thing, otherwise it is essentially servitude. Of course it isn't deliberate manipulation, but nonetheless the partner is being bullied into submission.
The fear of abandonment that my boyfriend with bpd has (before I moved out and got away from him) caused tons of problems. He even told me that if I died before him while we were together, he would for sure need to have another relationship because he couldn’t be alone. That hurt and made me feel like he wasn’t in love with me but rather that I was just a placeholder for the job of girlfriend. Because if I died young or old before him he would move on and replace me. I wouldn’t have been enough for him. And he would also guilt me constantly that his worst fear was me leaving wich made me feel pressured to make it work out even when he turned abusive. And if I ever turned down a sexual advance because I didn’t feel like it right then (I have a pretty high drive for a girl so no I wasn’t depriving him of a normal amount of sexual intimacy) he would say that I didn’t find him attractive anymore and that he was “a turn off” but he was extremely selfish in bed and I doubt he cared whether I enjoyed it or not. He was a fan of getting a bj and then claiming he was too tired to do anything for me. And if something was causing me pain, he would ignore me if he was enjoying it, and keep right on hurting me till he was done. I consider that basically rape because I would say no and stop and try to get away and he would not stop or let me go. He told me an ex “falsely accused him of rape” now I’m not so sure it was a false accusation. But what I learned was that I don’t want to be a placeholder for a relationship and I won’t put up with abuse from a partner ever again
As someone who was abused, I agree but I don't think anyone is meaning to "excuse" it. Understanding why something took place can take a lot of weight off of the survivors shoulders.
Touche. There are always going to be cycles of abuse. The abused become the abusers. We can only hope that more people start to wake up and stop the cycle.
My sister has BPD. She used to attack her husband every time he had to go on a business trip, accusing him of leaving her and being unfaithful, not loving her and what not; and ofc cheat when he was out of the house to "get revenge" and accusing him of making her do it when he found out about it. Even though the person with BPD may suffer, they kind of drag every body around them down the drain as well, they are impossible to be around. If someone just looked at her funny she would get over the board agressive, and there isn't one person in the family she hasn't called a 4 in the morning and yelled about something she thinks they have done, or that happened like 30 years ago. I don't know one person with BPD who doesn't abuse someone they are close to. I think that is where the claim comes from...
Sixteen years living next to a woman with BPD. I tried to keep the peace but ultimately it’s impossible. Little chance that she or I will move out but I no longer speak to her. Professionals complain about how stigmatised the disorder is but talk to anyone who’s been in close proximity with someone who has the disorder and isn’t motivated to get treatment. All the people I know who’ve had that experience say they’ve been abused, often for no apparent reason.
Yes, I agree. My oldest daughter has a SEVERE case of BPD. Just crazier all the time. Her pattern is to hang out at bars when her last "boy friend" has finally kicked her out. She is a cute blonde and the men can't believe their luck when they meet her. She is careful to maintain a totally fake "cover" until the fool asks her to move in with him. ( He must not have kids still living at home.) Once she is living with him, she lets her cover crumble, and screaming arguments and physical abuse become the norm. The guy gets to a point of desperation to get away from her. This is what happens over and over and it is the pattern of her life. She is one scary gal when things begin to break down. About a month ago, she turned her wrath toward me. I decided to block her, and it has turned out to be a real relief. Of course, she has cycled through her rage and has made it known that she wants to mend her relationship with me and feels "sorry" for the horrible things she said when she was raging at me. These people are stuck in a pathetic pattern that repeats itself endlessly. Right now I'm holding her at a distance, but you moms and dads out there are also pulled by their emotions to actually go ahead, give in, enjoy a brief time of peace with their sick, sick child, all the while knowing the hard fact that it cannot last long, no matter how loving and understanding you may feel toward your sicko, psycho, insane little offspring who actually still secretly despise you to the point of wishing you were dead. I had an elderly aunt as I was growing up. She would occasionally come to spend a few weeks with us after she lost her husband. She loved to look at me and say, "Youre eating your white bread now!," meaning that as I trudged through life, I would surely have at least a few bumps in the road. But my wonderful old aunt, nor I myself EVER DREAMED there was such a thing as BPD!!! It's just so, so bad that it feels unreal in a sense.
Nancy Ayers it’s interesting that your daughter can mask until she moves in with the new partner. Kind of suggests that she has control over her behaviour.
Kevin - she was born with it, and I can testify I believe this because in the first few days of her life, she caused me to begin to wonder. She grew from birth to display disturbing behaviors. Her main problem was she did not want anyone cuddling her and would "freeze" in response. The outpouring of rage built up gradually, except for a brief remission when she started first grade up to about eleven or twelve, then after entering all hell broke loose. She literally sneaked out of the house one night at age fourteen and never came back. Her rage is enormous. also her dad's tyrannical narcissism, another disorder, I believe also affected our family. She is becoming someone who is scary, I have never had extra money to take her to someone for private medical attention, but I've read that if a particular counselor is seen, that it is very difficult to really treat this disorder, too, and that the vast majority do not even improve during and after treatment. It's very hard for her keep a job - or a romantic relationship. Her life so far has been scorched Earth. I have always tried to help her. She believes I never have, although I have spent decades trying. Also, I am not "Mommy" to her, but a mentally ill person who is, in her words, a crazy f.....g bitch. She is nothing but rage on steroids. I have actually tried to tell her, but gotten nowhere.
I miss the manipulation part. And I know there is a lot of stigma on Borderline but i am a bit confounded .. In this video, I feel like we as ''victims'' from the abusive borderliners are not allowed to feel the pain they because well they are victims too. Of course they are victims themselves most of them suffered enormously but in my situation, it was a game of power and breaking me down and destroying me. I'm sure that's not only borderline but that's the only diagnosis she had. But despite missing the manipulation part its very eyeopening to hear the rest of your explanations .
My opinion is that you are never required to forgive your abusers. Many abusers were abused in their past, regardless of diagnosis or whether they even have one, but it gives them no excuse to abuse others. People with BPD often have difficulty seeing when they are being abusive because it is often unintended and they might see themselves as the victim instead, or feel that their actions are justified. Past abuse can solidify this idea that others are the abusers and not the person with BPD. It is the person with BPD’s responsibility to be self aware of their actions and work toward treatment to avoid becoming an abuser or continuing to be abusive. I have been on the receiving end of BPD abuse and have also been diagnosed with this disorder myself, so I can see both perspectives; but ultimately the person with BPD has to realize their maladaptive behaviors and how they affect others in order to make progress and avoid inflicting pain in other’s lives and their own. You are a survivor of abuse and are not required to feel bad for them because of their BPD or because they were abused.
@@peaceunion5316 It all starts with the question what pathological borderline is. When we are talking about 8,9/9 traits, then we aren't talking about borderline traits anymore, we are in the middle of covert narcissism and secondary psychopathy then. I feel there are exceptions and that it is a continuum but whatever one might believe, it's still a legit Cluster B PD. I even think sociopaths aren't necessarily abusive. Same with narcs and histrionics.
Borderline abuse is 100% real. My ex did everything mentioned in this video and more; add sexual abuse, manipulation, using his life to trap me (if you leave or argue I'll kill myself), isolation to get rid of any friends and family at any cost, he was diagnosed with borderline. More awareness is needed around this topic because I see information on narcissistic abuse everywhere, and it gets me no closure because although it might appear similar it's not the same thing. Also, people just hear BPD and think the person is just suffering so much inside that their abuse is justified or they're not capable of it to begin with because they can be so deluded and truly paint themselves as the victim flipping the story completely. It's life destroying!! Before anyone complains I am not saying all Borderlines abuse, but the one I personally experienced did, and there are definitely more out there who do.
"If you disagree with me, I'll kill myself." "You dont really love me." Yes, that is BPD. My mom had it and abused me for over 20 years. Constantly threatening suicide and accusing me of not loving her.
@@pangloss8394 No. Her description is spot on of a borderline. The suicide threats and attempts are one thing that separates it from narcissism. But BPD has about 90% overlap with narcissism.
@@irongloves89 nah, theraphy is highly effective. More than with other disorders even. I will assume you guys are from the Us for how much your hopes about theraphy are broken.
I would argue the feeling of emptiness is deeply involved with abuse, because it’s what drives pwBPDs to use others as emotional batteries, and because they mistake their intense longings with genuine love
Your video made me realize two things: my ex’s reading of my messages was paranoid ideation, to see if i was speaking ill of him and represents that criterion. Also, that something i did which sparked a two month silent treatment and end of the relationship was because i stood up to his emotional abuse and that triggered an elevated fear of abandonment. Thanks for helping me figure that out.
Dr Grande thank you for so clearly explaining the exact abuse I suffered at the hands of my ex-partner, you could have been describing him!! The irrational explosive anger, the use of any object at hand to threaten or inflict abuse (no spork, but once did try to use a disposable plastic razor to cut my throat along with the more conventional knives and a screwdriver!) and the lack of any real understanding of what he had subjected me to during those terrifying attacks. His refusal to acknowledge his problem and seek help was the most terrifying aspect of all...
My ex was like that too. It completely dysregulated my nervous system to the point of disability. Even without the physical part of the abuse its still physical. On you.
The ups and downs. The feeling of constantly walking through a minefield and walking on eggshells. The way they bring out this devil in you that even you have never seen before. The vengeance you get pushed to take. It's been almost 2 years since my breakup with a BPD ex and although I'm long over her and the relationship, something about that chaotic, addicting rollercoaster changes you to the core. I've had plenty of relationships and plenty of breakups. They are never fun, but when your partner has BPD it will be the most toxic and traumatic ending you'll ever know- when it actually ends, of course. Not one of the many short-term breakups. 2 years later and I'm still shell shocked by it. And i didn't realize how much it still affects me until just the other day. I don't think about her any more, but I had to develop so many thought patterns, habits, and behaviors just to survive and I don't know how to not be at war any more. I feel broken. Not in a sad/depressed way, but broken in the sense that the person I was when going into that relationship never came out of it. I don't know how to love any more. I don't know how to trust any more. Im in a relationship with a new person that absolutely genuinely loves me and deserves the best, and I feel awful for being this deeply scarred person that no longer feels okay with giving a relationship my all. And the worst part about it is that the person with BPD was over you in the snap of a finger. They probably hardly remember you and what memories they do have are the times that you were pushed to the edge and probably blew up on them.
It's been 3 months since I broke up with her. We should consider ourselves lucky it was the type of BPD where they are 'over you in the snap of a finger'. I've been doing much research as probably have you and many men find themselves in legal or lethal trouble after a breakup... In the past couple of weeks what really made me get over her was realizing she was BPD and realizing just what that means. To me, it means she is a complete hole of a human being. She never truly loved me or cared. I was her tool to keep her emotionally occupied. As is this next guy she is with. Her new victim.. I sometimes speculate as to whether she is actually evil, if she is consciously manifesting much of her behavior. Alas I'll never know but what I do know is she is a parasite moving from one host to the next. For some reason this knowledge liberates me. I realize the whole relationship was a trick. And as such, how can I be hurt anymore? Moving forward I now know the truth of it.
@@brentpatterson218 As someone with BPD, I have to disagree. The addiction to the painful rollercoaster-like love wasn't just from your side. When I'm in a relationship, I love the person I'm with. I adore them and I would do anything and everything for them. But there will be moments where this love turns to hate, like a fire fueled by oil. My first relationship lasted two years, on and off. Those two years felt like a growing heroin addiction. At first it was lighthearted and sweet, but near the end it felt more like a burning prison. You love someone with every cell of your body and more, yet you always find yourself full of hate. You would die for their attention and their love, yet it is never enough and it will never be enough. So if your ex really has BPD, I do believe that she truly loved you and she will never forget you. It might not seem that way, but there is a constant desire to love and to be loved. The addiction you felt when you were in the relationship is a rush that she will forever chase, because that addiction lasts a lifetime for her.
@@epicXtrollface thanks for the feedback. Over the months of research, the thinking of mine you're criticizing has evolved. I think she might have been co-morbid with narcissism.. I can't read her mind obv. But even with what you're saying, it seems like the bpd isn't in a healthy love with their partner. It seemed I was there to fill her void. Therefore I don't think it's a real love. I totally get that y'all feel deeply, but I see it as projecting idealistic/devaluing emotions onto me in order to heal her own trauma. Completely self-serving and unconscious in the case of bpd. I'd think a narc is more conscious (which is what I still debate about her case) Ironically this can traumatize the partner. I actually spoke with her recently and she still stands behind this belief that I never truly loved her or cared about her. If I was a weaker person, that alone would be traumatizing. I was a little hurt by that. But it actually helped me heal as I realized more clearly than ever that she is emotionally operating from the scope of a 12 year old. I can't reason with her. She is like gollum in her cave obsessing over the ring. "Gollum loves and hates the rings as he loves and hates himself" Best of luck to you btw.
Me too. Same thing for me as well. I’m changed after my dance with the devil. I have to think that I was naive before. I mistakenly thought there would always be some level of reciprocity but I simply never met evil like that before. I’m proud that I got up , picked up my dog, put my stuff in the car and left her behind. I thought I was building toward something, that we would have each other, but it was not to be. Hard to accept.
Somebody's borderline emotional rollercoaster broke my own emotional regulation. It really sucks that they decide to go around spreading their own poison like that. I am just glad I know better now.
Being a victim gets them attention so why would they want it any other way? Heaven forbid they might have to start taking responsibility for their own life 🙄
I'm happy you are addressing this issue because it has astronomical effects on all of the people involved. What I hate as someone living with BPD is the absolute sadness and dispair that I have caused any abuse or demeaning gestures. It's impossible for me to accept that I have no control over myself. Though it sounds cliche I don't mean it at all. Don't even know where the train derailed. Both parties either friend or romantic suffer one from abuse the other pure hell. I wish this was more understood all the way around. Life gets awfully lonely for us
I don’t understand why we are being careful not to stigmatise BPD, but are quite comfortable with stigmatising NPD. My ex is only diagnosed with NPD, but has all of the BPD behaviours as well, so obviously comorbid. The symptoms of both are equally traumatising to the victim. And I think bpd is worse because people with just NPD apparently discard their exes, whereas my ex continued his abuse in an all encompassing attack 5 years post breakup. Which I’ve heard others with bpd exes have experienced too. That’s hideous, that you can’t even break up and cut them off completely, they’ll stalk, vandalise, threaten, make false allegations and try to physically attack you no matter what you do to escape. Yeah the NPD part is more cunning and there’s a lot of poisoning others into attacking you on their behalf post breakup, and character assassination and of course I experienced all of that too, but typically NPD people stop and go silent, bpd are relentless. Forget about whether it’s stigmatising or not, everyone needs to know how life destroying and terrifying these people are so that they don’t become unsuspecting victims of this.
My husband was diagnosed with Covert Narcissism, but had just as many traits of BPD without the formal diagnosis. The damage done to the family of people who have both disorders is unimaginable. 😢
I agree. But also I think because of the prognosis and the fact bpd ppl can feel positive emotions unlike npd ppl, I think ppl actually walk more on eggshells than with a npd person. This varies on the subtype; but in general I’d say npd are full vampires and bpd might be seen as half human - half vampire. And then there’s the scale of mild to severe on top of that.
This can be true not just with their romantic partners, but with coworkers. I have a coworker that is scary and seems to get fixated on people who have things (skills, items, etc.) that they want…. And when that happens it’s game on! They’re super competitive and will utilize other coworkers to figure out what you’re doing or even move their cubicle closer to you to know what you’re doing professionally and in your private life. Then they want to mimic your skills and ambitions. I’ve also been lied about by this person many times… their mistake becomes your mistake by blaming you for it (item of opportunity). BPD, sorry, you can’t be nice to such people when they are abusing you and you don’t have a real relationship with them (they may be your coworker and seem to want to deeply snatch your identity at any cost which makes them… a really scary coworker). My best hope is to separate myself with as much distance… ie removing myself from the shared work environment so that the abuse will stop. Not sure why this person hasn’t been fired long time ago because for many years they’ve never put in an 8 hour day at their job- I’ve literally seen this person come in at 11:00am… impulsively take a 1-2 hour lunch… then leave 3:30 or 4pm. Then take 2 days off in the same week and then cry to their “best friend” in HR that they don’t have any vacation or sick hours… then to repeat the pattern again in less than a week. Us coworkers are not sure how she can get away with not working for many years… however this person is quick to accuse others of not working or not working as “hard” as she does. Mental health in the workplace is horrible especially for those who may not have it. But especially when those with such disorders are ruthless in ruining other people’s lives because they are feeling super small about themselves.
As someone with BPD, this sounds nothing like it. There is mimmicking but a big aspect of the illness is impulsivity, reactivity and emotional instability, it is difficult for me to plan stuff out especially in public when it's hard enough for me to work on balancing my facial expressions and emotions to appear normal. The mimicking I do is pretty straightforward. If someone smiles i smile, if someone laughs I laugh. If someone waves at the group I'm with, i too wave at the group I'm with because the presence of mind is zilch huehuehue
My mom had bpd and it was really hard growing up with her. She was diagnosed few years back and I had to distance myself from her because I think it would left even deeper mental issues on me.
I think I would never be able to distance myself from my mom, even though she can be pretty mean at times. Her life revolves arround us, her kids, she has no friends and is clearly unhappy. I would be too afraid she would try to commit suicide, since she had suicidal thoughts a few years back
@@littlelily4 Threatening to commit suicide is another form of abuse. My daughter would threaten me often until I said "Go Ahead." That tactic would no longer work from then on!!! Save yourself before it's too late and watch every video you can find on Going No Contact.
@@littlelily4 You are NOT responsible for other people’s manipulations and this cohort will threaten suicide or make weak gestures simply to keep you towing their line. They’re manipulative as hell. Pfft. Loose mommy dearest: Life is short and no one, regardless of their label has the right to abuse anyone ESPECIALLY THEIR OWN KIDS. And as you’re experiencing, they do NOT get better with age.
I watch these kind of videos as someone with bpd to see where I can get in fault myself and try to avoid these as much as possible. Or to teach myself how to take care of character traits that go towards that.
How do you look at your flawed character traits without triggering depression or victim mentality. I have BPD and I’m about to lose my husband and kids if I can’t figure out how to do this exact thing if you can help me at all please I need it
@@brookerogers2513 In all honesty sometimes that is really hard. Where I feel helped most was the moment when the people around me understood I have BPD and that it is a real thing that hinders me. But that I do love them so so much. Also I have a lot of proffesional help for the things that are too hard to deal with for the people who love me. I like to think of it this way: The minor problems I deal with together with my friends, my family and anyone close to me. The bigger problems like suicidal thoughts, self harm and anything any other person should not have to handle, I get proffesional help for. It is good you see the problems and I am sure now that you can identify them you are so much farther than a lot of other people are. Know it will get better, but you may need to start with yourself first and with the proper help. It also helps a lot if your family can support you. It can help so much that they understand what is wrong with you and that all you need is love and understanding. Leave the rest up to proffesionals and yourself. As your family is not equipped to handle that. I learned that the hard way. They are too close to you to want to see you in that way and be able to help you out. But know once you are stable relationships can grow even better
So glad to have come across such a succinct acknowledgment of the subtleties of what a partner of someone with BPD experiences from an abuse perspective. I went through abuse in my relationship with my girlfriend and completely lost my own sense of identity in the process. I only found out posthumously that she had BPD. It’s an incredibly hard condition to deal with.
Thank you. It is both ways. Sometimes I could think that both PD’s are inherited and on a scale/spectrum. Both rooted in child hood trauma both often attracting one another. Why is that? But thank you for your comment. Agreed w/your thought.:)
@askfj I have explosive anger issues and yes it is possible not to be abusive to a partner with anger problems you wanna know why? Because anger douse not always equal violence I know someone with bpd she isn't abusive she is just deathly afraid of being abandoned and she needs support sometimes I'm honestly surprised to see the stigma attached to this disorder people think people with bpd will like stab you if you try to abandon or otherwise leave them bpd douse not equal abuse nor douse npd aspd hpd or any other pd
I can relate to a lot of these examples of abuse, it's horrifying what happens when the idealization phase ends and the devaluation begins. Super dangerous to be involved with someone who behaves like this, especially if you are a male victim and people have a hard time believing what you went through. My life is ruined in ways that are irreparable. I'm completely traumatized and feel like I will never be able to trust anyone again.
I swear I could've written the same exact thing. It's nightmarish and navigating the healing process is just as labyrinthine, frustrating and difficult as the abuse itself. Especially being male, even in a supposedly 'woke' environment, the abuse isn't taken seriously whatsoever. My whole life was ruined. They started the relationship with almost no friends, a severe ED, crippling social anxiety, etc. I was their therapist for hours every single day; helped them through breakdown after breakdown, whether or not it was based in reality and whether or not it was being absurdly taken out on me. (The gaslighting, putting words in my mouths, saying I did things I didn't do, the one-sided stories, the outright lies, etc. etc., I was so patient with this person.) Gradually I was able to help them through everything except how they treated me; all my friends became their friends, too, etc. Then when we finally split slowly and surely my entire social life collapsed. People started treating me differently. What was going on? Somehow, they turned everyone against me. It led to further traumas. But how could that cute bubbly femme who's always having such a hard time :( be so rotten? No one ever took it seriously and my whole life was destroyed, and they'll never change their behavior because they're coddled to all hell. I coddled them too, because it was impossible to do anything else. C'est la vie. Good luck healing man
@@matthewpelletier4447 It's good that you experienced something like this too. I was on the same path as you, trying to get her involved with my own friends. Thankfully it didn't work. But she got me to a point where I was so nervous all the time that I stopped eating and became underweight, which landed me in a hospital. I never knew how she was going to treat me next: normal or like I was a horrible person, gaslighting me, manipulating me.. Now I am extremely cautious when it comes to people and cut some out just like that out of fear.
Same a lot here except the friends part , She treats her friends and her Sis and Mom like gold so you get gaslit to hell . How can the pretty blonde blue eyed church girl who puts on that facade do all of these things lol ? there's always city different excuses /rationalizing /justifying for the emotional outbursts /cheating/lying/future faking /manipulation / discarding they never do it on purpose etc. . Its just soul crushing to deal with .
My brother is a victim of this. She had him put in jail for a year, though she was legitimately horrified and said that she lied to the cops and didn't mean it. She missed him and cried every day while he was locked up saying she understood what she had done and it could never happen again. She's now saying during arguments "just shut up, I could have you locked up again if I wanted to". And doesn't understand why my brother is being weird.
I'm sorry you went through such a difficult time, but being a male victim doesn't mean your situation was worse. Female victims of DV are much more vulnerable and likely to end up murdered.
This is the first time I vehemently disagree with Dr. Grande: “the person with BPD is suffering a lot more.” Are you serious?!?! That is a grotesque dismissal of a BPDs behavior. They are not children who don’t know better. They know exactly what they’re doing.
@Intuitivehealingwithmj well the therapist only counsels the patient with BPD. And not the victims. Plus BPD paint such a (falsely ) vicious portrayal of their victim to their therapist. Many therapists outright refuse to treat people with BPD.
@@kirstymclaren3869 Many therapists simply aren't fit to treat people with BPD, it's arguably the most self-destructive mental illness alongside NPD, but people with NPD can't be treated anyway so they are written off akin to psychopaths and sociopaths. I have to say there is a unpleasant amount of disinformation in this relatively small comment chain.
That would appear to be true sometimes, but PLEASE remember that this disorder looks very different from how it actually feels. People with BPD *don't* always "know exactly what they're doing" -- in fact, they might be dissociating or experiencing transient psychotic symptoms. There's a difference between being evil and being someone whose emotions are hijacked. It feels TERRIBLE to be inside a BPD brain. There's no glee in it. There's no delight.
I was in an abusive friendship with someone who had BPD a few years ago and your informative and objective videos on the disorder helped me get to terms with my experience. Until now I've demonised them and the disorder, because i was just 14 and that was the only way I could cope with it then. This video helped me understand and forgive them. Thank you :)
I am so done with this. Always having to be the grown up. Always getting burned when I say no. You search for it, I can see it in your eyes. Something to releave your anger on. My stuff, my country, my friends. Preferably me. I AM NOT YOUR SANDBAG!! I keep saying. You hate me when I forget something. But you easily forgive yourself. It is always my fault. I'm always to blame. I'm tired of al the research I do to help you, to make you happy. To make sure I won't make any mistakes or trigger you. But it is getting harder and harder to be the grown up, it is getting harder to stay objectieve, calm and understanding. I'm also human, I have emotions. I wish you would give me the space to express them. Even if you doubt them. I care about you, I wish you wouldn't forget.
This wasn't what I wanted to say... Some though words. If you have borderline because of abuse in your past. I am sorry that happened to you. BUT IT IS NOT A FUCKING EXCUSE TO ABUSE OTHERS!!!!!!!! I heard the whining "I can't help it I have borderline waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to fucking often. I can tell you one thing! Your borderline is not an EXCUSE for your behaviour. It's the reason. BUT IT DOESN'T FUCKING EXCUSE IT!!! You are resposible for you own actions. Fucking own up to them, apolagize and then, if the sitiation calls for it, you explain why. Because there is a point people stop taking that as a legitimate excuse.
I can relate so much.. I tried so much and can't count how many times I had to be the bigger person, all the times I chose to be forgiving and understanding and tolerant, all the times I doubted myself and gave her the benefit of the doubt, yet she never accepted any sort of criticism and I think she's never , not once during our friendship, said the word sorry , genuinely. Except when I would confront her about something she did or explain to her that the thing she did was hurtful or not okay with me, then she would say a fake "well, sorry" and act like it was my fault, or gaslight me ,or completely invalidate me. Meanwhile she got mad at me very often over the simplest thing , and all those times she never doubted that she perhaps was wrong. I remember the day i broke up with her and explained to her that the way she treats me was hurting me too much and thats why i preferred that we separated, she denied the examples of her behavior i told her and had the guts to tell me that" I really need to learn to look at both sides, just a piece of advice". It was way too much, i couldnt believe it. The time i actually stand up for myself she pretends that she didnt do what she did and that im the bad, selfish one? I can still remember how bamboozled i felt, because I thought she just wasn't aware of her behavior, and that once i told her, she would understand and apologize but no. Man , I feel like there's so much stuff in my heart that just wants to come out.
@@clovrr291 hey, I know this was a year ago but could you reply to this comment? How do you know if this is BPD or NPD- my best friend is exactly the same and she seemed to display narcissistic rage over me explaining I was struggling from trying to constantly give all my energy and time on her problems instead of mine. But what if this was just uncontrollable anger and she still cares?? Did you figure out the cause of your friends behaviour? I’m so confused 😭😭😭
Thank you so much for this information. I have borderline personality disorder and I realize that I can be emotionally abusive but, this video is like a wake up call for me to stop."
My sister has BPD. She has consistently wrecked every holiday , every vacation that my siblings and I have tried to put together our whole lives. She typically will choose one of us and viciously mock and attack them, or attack a waiter, or a theater manager. It’s been such a nightmare that we have found that we don’t want to gather if she’s there. We understand and have educated ourselves about this disorder. My husband got her disability (he’s an attorney) because she cannot hold any job…even volunteering. Yours is the very first talk with compassion and sympathy for those of us who have had to deal with this disorder in our lives. I want to thank you from all of us .
You DO have a serious demeanor but it is so soothing and calming. Besides, what better way to deliver dry humour!? 😂 Your anecdotes are priceless, thank you for sharing!
Wow, I can relate well with the list of borderline abuse that I've been on the receiving end of over the years. You did miss a couple things however, such as trying to engage third parties to carry out the killings, going online and spending months or years repeatedly trying to destroy the lives of those they attack for no reason other some imagined rejection. Perhaps this overlaps with other Cluster B forms of abuse? And finally, the complete denial of doing any of these things... which can compound the harm done to those on the receiving end; although perhaps this comes under the standard gaslighting tool?
@@thenarcissistsenemy29 years of looking for revenge doesn't sound very borderline though. The bad side of BPD is the reactivity, with some narcissism in the moment in survival mode, not what you are talking about.
@@OverOnTheWildSide So where is the acknowledgement of their abuse and the apologies and reaching out for help with it by professionals if remorse is ever recognised by them then? Surely SOME of the abuse they inflict upon others, they get some pleasure from, with NO regrets?? All of them ain't THAT self aware...
Without trying to invalidate someone's experience, being able to understand and forgive my mom for the unjustified abuse is what finally allowed that relationship to start healing. It's still hard and I have to be on top of my boundaries, but we're finally starting to listen to each other and it makes me hopeful for the future.
I will give you the name. Stalking, for 10 years. Destroying your car. Putting a restraining order on you, even though really it's projection, you have the restraining order on THEM! Breaking into your house. Hollering your name outside your house for hours while they stand outside naked! I can't even list off all of these things. My mistake for going out with the guy a couple times!
Jesus. I've had very similar experiences not for that long though. I have BPD and had an ex with BPD. He would send me rape threats constantly, he sent my nudes around to all his friends, he stalked me outside of work, he beat me a few times threatened to kill me and do sexual things with me dead body etc. Not to mention I was 17 and he was 26 which was a stupid idea of my part. I think male BPD is alot more violent and agressive then female BPD due to how man and women are able to express themselves emotionally. But damn it's shitty but I can't even handle a person with BPD and I got this shit.
It’s interesting. I always see people with BPD insisting they “aren’t like that!” and making claims that it’s “only a small sensationalized percentage”, but I have never encountered someone with BPD who wasn’t “like that.” And everyone I’ve talked to who’s encountered someone with BPD was of someone “like that.” Taking that into account, I’d also like to remind the person reading this how people with BPD like to paint themselves as victims. And encourage you to make your own conclusion.
I am a victim to the abuse I suffered. The person I abuse is a victim to the abuse I put them through. I also have BPD. Is my BPD an excuse to hit someone? Fuck no. I know what is right and what is wrong. I've made mistakes. I've told people who called me stupid and ugly to go kill themselves, and they never deserved that amount of hostility from me. It's not that I was a victim, it's that when they called me stupid and ugly, I wanted to hurt them the same way they hurt me. It's more about vengeance gone wrong.
I've encountered abusive people with BPD and they believe they are good, kind and highly empathic and other people are taking advantage of their kindness. I think the problem with people w/BPD is that they lack insight/selfawarness so they aren't even aware that they are being abusive/hurtful toward others. So it's not strange that they always believe that they aren't "like that" cause they probably aren't even aware that they in fact are "like that".
Megan Michaels Good for your friend for not being like that, but actually I get where Dr. Dispekful is coming from. I've witnessed abusive borderlines who claim they are kind and empathic. You can never know how a BPD behaves behind close doors. The ones that suffer the most abuse are the loved ones (family member or intimate partner) living with the BPD person, and then BPD will almost always project and claim that they are the ones being abused by their family, partners, friends ...etc.
You've helped me more with my disorder then the last 6 therapist, and 3 psychologist over the last 4 years. I often hate how i react, and no matter what i can't control it. Even trying to bring myself back into the moment.
More needs to be said about abuse of parents from adult BPD children. Extremely damaging things are experienced especially when there is a grandchild involved. Parents are targets for all kinds of abuse and children are used as weapons. I would like to see this discussed with any helpful strategies.
I can very much relate to your post. My adult daughter with BPD has been abusive to romantic partners, friends, and family members. Between my husband and I (her parents), we are probably the only long-term relationships she has left. My husband and I, senior citizens now, are worn out. She has two children and uses them as pawns. We are hoping she will begin DBT therapy soon.
Just wondering Don’t you think it’s the fruits of your upbringing? My mom has no idea about her mental state which is bad. She thinks she’s normal and I’m all messed up. And I cannot talk with her and open up about all the times she hurt me deeply. Because once again - I’ll turn out the ungrateful complaining black sheep. I prefer to just withdraw any contact
Thank you for saying this ( I know it was 2 years ago) my Ex boyfriends dad left him when he was little. Not only was I abused by his BPD but his mother,grandma and sister would get it so bad too.😔
Oh it’s real,,and when ppl with borderline aspects and tendencies, if they’re unmarried or in the current relationship, it’s PARENTS and SIBLINGS that suffer their symptoms.
Don't generalise. I have BPD, am single and taking care of my mother who I live with and I don't do any of the things Dr Grande says. Not all BPD sufferers are the same.
Celldweller Fangirl ,, so true, my gosh , and I barely remember posting this,,thank you ! think I’ve grown up more, now, too or learned more since then.. :(
This is interesting to watch as someone with quiet BPD. There are a lot of things I relate to in borderline relationships, such as severe lack of abandonment, instability within myself and the relationship, idealization. But most if it is internalized, and essentially I allow myself to be harmed by them and myself in the end. I do recognize times when I was manipulative and probably stressing to my partner. I know there's a lot of times I wouldn't recognize this also. I've never done any of these "extreme" things mentioned, and I've never struggled with aggression or much anger. It's all internalized towards me. I'm extremely abusive to myself at the end of the day, no matter the relationship I'm in or not in. Just a POV into a quiet BPD brain ❤ even though it's not very quiet in here
Same. And i think that's why it took awhile to diagnose. I didn't mention my rage or self identity issues, i figured my dad had rage so I jst inherited it from him and it has nothing to do with my other symptoms of disassociation, paranoia or psychosis, etc. And I described my feelings of emptiness as boredom. Before i was getting medicated for GAD and depression. Anyway, then a therapist finally asked me why i self h and i told them i feel so much rage but I don't want to hurt anyone else so I hurt the person I hate the most, myself. I obviously don't know the lightbulb moment for them but guessing.
I also have BPD and I was told this quote one time that has always helped me understand what it is. It's was a rare disorder at the time so the dr told me this quote and it is "Hurt people, hurt people".
"Hurt people, hurt people." It's an explanation, not an excuse. Wouldn't hold up in the legal system. Luckily for abusers charges are rarely made & in the USA only one state deems "coercive abuse" felonious. (Some other nations in the West already do so.)
I totally know what you're getting at! But your comment also prompted another thought as it pertains to "getting it". I am not a clinician. I am a professional in a very competitive field, with excellent people skills, and advanced degrees. However, I have grown up with a BPD parent and sibling (who is my only one), and had a very low empathy/low remorse spouse. I was also in a long-term relationship with a BPD. Because I have seen a variety of these folks "in their element" or "without their mask" I feel that I have a unique, and well-informed perspective on who these disordered people are. I've been following Dr. Grande for a while and really enjoy the exchange of comments and ideas. It seems like perhaps one of the only fora that has a dedicated following of well-informed targets/victims as well as clinicians. I've spoken with many clinicians in both professional and interpersonal contexts, and not many get to observe the Cluster Bs in a way that us non-professionals have. I've read and studied about this phenomena quite a bit. First, I want to give props to Dr. Grande, for being able to reach an audience that includes clinicians and non-clinicians alike. Second, I think that those who have been affected by these disorders as a target/victim "get-it" in a different way. We've seen the Cluster Bs in a way that clinicians will never ever see in their office or in a clinical setting. I hope this channel/forum can be a way for those who have experienced Cluster B abuse to also provide insight! There are a lot of such folk on RUclips, but their content is not clinically-informed. Dr. Grande, I encourage you to provide a platform where non-clinicians have "a voice". We get it! We've lived it! And I truly believe that our experiences can better help the clinical community manage what some would probably characterize as one of the biggest public health epidemics of our time.
Dr. did say spork was on the original list presented to him, id like to know the backstory with this. He was joking because it sounds so implausible, but when a spork is the closest thing to a sharp you have, you work with it.
Why is "being real" only when you present bpd's as abusive? Also,they're a lot more likely to be victims because they would tolerate anything out of fear of abandonment. Also ,where are those channels that "present them as victims"? I need to look them up.
@@tamaraman6358You are not more likely to be victims than you are to be abusers lol, and I’m pretty sure you could find those channels in a few seconds
Great presentation, Dr. Grande. The list of "attack weapons" could be unlimited. I've heard of tire irons, heels of high-heel shoes, coat hangers, among others. I was once hit in the back with a thrown unopened can of tuna and another time by a plateful of scrambled eggs...not fun. Thanks for the continued education ~ I always get something valuable out of your videos!
I threw a full glass bottle of Coke at the ground when I was 19 and it shattered everywhere. I've also smashed an empty water glass into a sink when I was 24. I bashed my own forehead with a glass. I've thrown numerous pens across the room. I shoved a plastic chair. None of these things were ever aimed AT the person my outburst was directed at (my poor partner). PS. The REAL epidemic right now isn't Covid. It's SPORK RAGE. 😂😂😂😂
Oh yes, I was attacked with such weird "weapons". I was hit with food items in my face, like sandwiches, bananas etc. I have also had hot beverages thrown at me, as well as a glass, a flower pot and so on. He once grabbed a kitchen knife during an argument and just walked around the apartment with it in his hand. He did also hit me with his own hands but that "only" happened two times (two times too many of course). It's very random and seem to just be what they have on hand at the time of rage. My ex partner also used spitting in my face as a type of weapon when he didn't have anything on hand. I just left this relationship 2 days ago. I feel completely broken inside but I know it's not normal to have things thrown at you for "being ungrateful" or "using the wrong tone". It's ridiculous and abusive and I wish I got out earlier. I don't know how I will heal from this.
@@GrimstrokeMainr Thank you so much for this nice comment. I am doing much better, but I'm still dealing with trauma of course, and I have fallen into something of a mild depression, and I'm struggling a bit with that. Non the less, I am still in a much better place now than I was when I was in my abusive relationship. I'm happy to be out of it and be able to feel safe in my own home again.
Dr. Todd Thank you for talking about this topic. Next week I'm starting EMDR therapy for what happened with my ex-girlfriend with BPD. A rational talk about these topics gives me insight into what happened, why she did what she did, and helps me to process my side of the story. Many thanks
I moved out of my apartment because my roommate with BPD was harassing me non-stop. She would tell me how awful and narcissistic everyone around me was, but the problem was her the whole time. She would never own up to anything she'd done. She'd play the victim when she was the one hurting people. The day I moved, she made sure she had a guy with her that was enabling her actions, and then threw my stuff out of the fridge, trashed my room, and threw actual trash at me as I walked out the door for the last time. Purely psychotic.
i had a bpd roommate too and the same thing happened to me. threw my new laptop across the apartment while I was moving out and broke many of my belongings - glad we’ve both moved on past these situations!!
I’m literally going through one of the main examples that you gave. I found out my ex partner has BPD. I was repeatedly sexually assaulted by him, he also exhibits hyper sexuality. We are in the same work field and when I told someone I don’t want to interact with him, I found out he made a false report on me saying I sexually assaulted him. Now I have to deal with all the legal shit to take him down. Ugh.
Yup. I was apparently reasonably mentally healthy, until 3 years with a borderline female. Now I have cptsd and emotionally unstable personality disorder (Which is the new name for BPD) I have actually been diagnosed too, not just saying it
Look into coda, codependents anonymous and work those steps! You've been infected, which can happen. There's a really useful channel called how I survived my borderline girlfriend. He actually discusses how the bpd will infect you with their illness and what to do now. It's SUCH helpful information. Good luck and I'm so very sorry 💔
My BPD ex wife definitely left a lasting impression on me. She experienced some pretty horrible things to leave her in that condition, and I’ve experienced my own hardships in life that left me mentally unable to confront and break the unhealthy relationship off sooner than I did. One mistake was believing I could “fix” her if I could achieve the standard she set for me. The onset of my midlife crisis forced me to realize how consistently unhappy/frustrated/empty I was in trying (and failing) to do that for so long. Meanwhile, my needs were pretty much disregarded or outright attacked. Attempting to then set firm boundaries was the spark that eventually burned our relationship to the ground, and, although I do empathize with her situation, I feel like I basically saved my own life by following through with the divorce. Also, that story about the banned sporks was frickin hilarious.
I have been with two partners with BPD, both women, and they were both abusive (physically, emotionally, financially, in every way possible...) the only abusive partners I have been with. Yet, there was also some codependency on my part that I have to recognize.... but yeah I'm sorry to people with BPD, I know you all go through a lot and you all deserve love, but I can't do it and I could never date another person with BPD ever again. I'm just not strong or stable enough. I have dated some scary men before, but they were nothing compared to the two women with BPD I was with. I actually feared for my life when I was with them and I am still getting harrassed by one of them even years later.
dont have to be sorry, no one has to be with anyone, and you dont have to be strong and provide for someone who is suffering. Im not offended by people who dont want to date me because of bpd, but rather with those who see me as subhuman because of it.
I really don't think it's fair to say that the person with BPD that's being abusive is suffering more than the person their abusing. The person they're abusing could and probably would have their own mental health issues. BPD and NPD or any other personality disorder DOES NOT under any circumstance give a person permission to be abusive or make them unaccountable for the harm they cause. Serial killers have to face justice regardless of how they justify their actions in their own mind. A borderline abuser is an abuser. Period. All actions have consequences. Whether done intentionally or unintentionally.
True, each individual is responsible for their thoughts, words and actions or lack thereof. Being a victim does not warrant becoming an abuser which is a choice at some point, though difficult to master, it can and must be done.
I agree. My oldest sister made my life growing up a living hell and I am traumatized. It was pure hell. My little developing brain couldn't make sense of it. Imagine those 'suffering' from BPD with siblings or their own children...... They don't make it out undamaged.
Thank you. I was very hurt when this doctor said that the borderliner is suffering more, when that is always dependent on a specific situation. Its also part of the problem I think, to debate 'who is suffering more'. Its hard enough for people who've been abused by borderliners to get recognition in the first place and then to hear that they should feel sorry for the borderliner is a really fucked up thing, as if you should be okay with the fact that they abused you. Yes the pwBPD should get help and heal from these experiences, but placing them above the abuse victim is inherently wrong in my opinion.
I think he means that they have such a distorted sense of self and low self esteem, that they are the ones that are actually suffering more than us. not that we are not still suffering, but i'm able to think about this and then have a pretty normal life with normal relationships. they are suffering with relationships, they're thoughts and everything, doesn't mean its a game of who's suffering more, but we are not suicidal or emotionally raw like they are. no excuse for abuse though.
I have to thank you for this video! I'm in the same college program with a broken up couple so I have been around this pretty frequently. The girl was fairly abusive towards her ex and blamed him for a lot of her problems and spread untrue rumors and threatened him and his now girlfriend with violence. It caused a lot of problems for me and the people around me and people have blamed her for a lot of the problems that have occurred for a while, but I'm trying really hard to understand things. I like how this video acknowledges both the pain the abusee faces and the pain the borderline person faces as well as I have been trying to show compassion for both of these parties. I'm gonna try to convey this to my friends so we might be able to have some clear understanding for this complicated situation and so that we can try to show some empathy for someone who may be struggling more than we know.
It may sound harsh but if you recognize BPD in a potential partner or even someone you are with just get out of there. Unless you have a deep history or children with them the value you derive from a relationship with them does not nearly equal the suffering that relationship will cause you. Even if you try and be supportive and get them help and do all the "right" things it will not be a good time. You will lose yourself in their struggle and become a facilitator for their happiness. Going from 2 different girlfriends with BPD in my early twenties to a girlfriend(now wife) without was a big eye opener. Maybe some people with BPD are not as bad but I do not think the risk is worth it when there are plenty of other safer options.
I count myself lucky I got out after a year and a half!!! I tried so many times to get her help, get her off drugs, get her on a budget, etc. In the end I realized she saw me as her victim. She hit me 4 times and obviously as a chick never hurt me. But she would cut herself. I noticed the same psycho look on her face when she cut herself was the same look when she hit me. I realized it was a matter of time before I get knifed myself!
Every abuser has been abused. Having BPD does not give you a free pass. Yet seems like one of the central criteria of BPD...to be entitled to be abusive because you are a "victim". 🤮
Exactly. Behind every evil there's always a wounded child. It doesn't make the evil any less real, though. Feeling more psychologically hurt (which is already a profoundly narcissistic presumption) than your victim doesn't make you the victim. As a matter of fact, I think that is the most disturbing aspect of bpd. The extreme entitlement.
@@Anna-lv8mm me and my siblings were abused throughout our lives, me and my two brothers don't have BPD/NPD. I would never abuse anyone else or put others through what I've been through. I believe that NPD/BPD is mostly influenced by genetics, because not all abused children grow up to have a personality disorder.
Identity disturbances result in the borderline sufferer ramping up abusive behavior against their partner. If they are fired from their Job, they will take it out on you in one way or another. If their children move to another state with their ex-spouse, they will take it out on you. Their emotions are your burden. If you find yourself in a romantic relationship with someone who you suspect or know has BPD, get out as soon as you can. Otherwise you may become as sick as they are. You will be so drained that you will be unable to perform at school or work. It will change you for the worse. You will lose yourself at some point. I missed many opportunities to leave for good. Don't be like me.
Love this video. I believe my twin sister has BPD, she was in a 10 yr crazy and violent relationship in her 20s. She is now married to another man and now she is the abuser towards him. She physically attacks him every so often. She’s always yelling at him, complains about the tiniest things. Always angry, is reactive to every little thing. I also believe her BPD is mixed with covert narcissism. She has black and white thinking, scared to be alone and shuns me and my mom away then turns around and screams that we don’t care about her. She only involves herself with us is when she gets something out of it for herself or her children. I can go on and on. It’s quite sad.
I lived with someone for a year who I am fairly sure must have had this condition. Worst year of my life. No matter that I tried so hard to help this person, he simply abused me so much I now suffer ptsd. One minute he’d be threatening suicide, next he was threatening any new friends I had to scare them off… he told all kinds of bullshit stories to scare people off as he wanted me for himself only. He threatened to kill me, I would hide all the sharp objects when he was in a dangerous mood. Nightmare is the only word for it. I was lucky to survive. Stroke of luck got me away from him. I heard years later that he died and I felt absolutely nothing. And if I’m being honest a bit of relief and happiness that he can’t continue screwing with anyone else. I know it’s a disorder but doesn’t mean I should have my whole life turned inside out and suffer a lifetime of anxiety issues. If you come across these types of people, run for the hills. It’s not worth it.
Dear Dr. Grande, Many thanks for all thorough coverage of BPD. FINALLY, I am able to understand that my ex-partner has BPD! I was confused and lost and could not really fathom the rage, the switching....It was like a roller-coaster and now I got it. It was not me. He covers like 7 of the 9 symptoms but still refused therapy thinking he's all fine. Thanks for this enlightenment. Helps me a lot dealing with the post trauma effects.
My ex borderline attacked me with a meat cleaver, a machete, tried to set me on fire with can of fly spray & lighter, strangled and damaged my wind pipe, destroyed all my belongings, cut up my expensive shoes ect ect. Thank goodness there were no sporks in the house!
My ex is a double amputee, lost both feet from below knees (bi lateral). He slipped off a train whilst graffiti'n age 14. He now 46 life time drug induced psychosis aS well.
@The Mask yes it took me time to get away from him, lots of reasons why, I mostly think the extended time was for my own vendetta/ revenge/ payback I'm now free from a BDP NPD situationship. I didn't look back, I skipped away & whistled a happy tune.
Thank you so much for this info. I am writing a book about our culture and the prevalence of personality disorders and you are my to go guy for my research. Thank you again. Brilliant work! We have no one in our field who has studied this as you have. Seriously. Ive dreamt you up. Thanks again.
Fascinating, as always. Having studied Behavioral Science back in my college days, I love watching your dialogs! Always most interesting! One of my favorite channels of all! You are the teacher I wish I had then and now I do! Hilarious about the Spork!
I loved your funny story about sporks! The throwing of drinks all over someone is a very common attack at the of cunulation of many arguments in soap opera's, especially Coronation Street!
Dr. Grande, why do those with BPD engage in smear/distortion campaigns against ex's? What is their ultimate goal in their smear campaign? To maintain contact with the target? Or just to get revenge and destroy their life?
BPD brains operate on a dog-eat-dog basis in their triggered "splitting" states. They truly believe that you are out to get them and are acting (as far as they're concerned/convinced) in preemptive [paranoid] self-defense. Whereas a narcissist smears to gain power and/or cover up their actions to protect their ego, someone with BPD *may* embody this to an extent, but ultimately you are a "villain" so they justify their actions before/during/after in accordance with this narrative. In simpler terms, it is partially about protecting their reputation but moreso an impulsive response towards their delusions that you are going to destroy/"take them down" otherwise.
I'm guessing maybe it's from the fear of abandonment. They feel as though you abandoned them and that hurts them! 🤷 I don't know just a guess! I had an online friend who had BPD and she had bad paranoia about me leaving and talking to other friends online and in the end she left because she'd said she rather cut ties then deal with the pain of me abandoning her! What set her off was me saying that I needed to make some boundaries and need time to myself. I sometimes wonder how she's doing and hope she got therapy. I know a part of her wanted to get better as she would constantly ask for advice but she never acted on any I gave her. I won't lie that the friendship took it's tole on me despite being an online friend. I have C-PTSD, Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder to deal with. It's true that you can't force someone to get help if they don't completely want it! ☹️
Thanks for this video Dr. Grande! Most of your jokes do fly over my head since you're serious...but I think it makes your humor funnier. A video on non-mentally ill abusive individuals would be interesting!
Oh - I love the humour of deadpan snarkers! [Generally speaking - it's not always that cute if _you're_ the one at whom it's aimed and it isn't in good faith, as it were...]
Jane Nowak That is actually what Im wondering. Ive read things along the lines of "just because they're abusive doesn't mean they're mentally ill," but that doesn't sit right for me for the reason you just stated. So I was hoping Dr. Grande would clarify if thats possible and if so what's the difference ya know.
@@anis9166 NOW I see it! Your humor flew right over my head, and I have the same dry sense of humor! Your comment really was very funny and WOULD make a GREAT topic! I guess I missed it because this video was an emotionally charged one for me.
being bombarded with self harm / suicide threats and being held personally responsible for every single mood and emotion they experienced was unbelievably stressful and brought me to my knees. the love, help and support I gave them made absolutely no difference. eventually, they moved on to another victim
They are like an emotional black hole - no amount of sacrifice or empathy will be enough and it disappears instantly as they now demand twice as much. And when you leave totally drained and devastated, feeling like you sacrificed everything and lost all self-respect, they will probably tell your friends and parents that you mistreated them badly and are very, very selfish and should seek help... Classic!
You are me. I have lived this exact comment. I'm glad you got away!
Be wary of “needy” people.
@@lloyannehurdMany men like that. It has much to do with the ideal of a woman being inexperienced, fragile and young. Of course the trouble is when she turns into a 40yo with BPD who acts like a 4yo.
@@f4ust85
I believe you are correct. The young part of young and helpless has an expiry date.
Just because the perpetrator is or was a victim, dose not mean their actions are not abuse.
that was not stated in the video. it did state that there are simply 2 victims.
When you are an adult and not longer being abused by anyone, but you turn around abusing others as a borderline, you are not a victim; you are purely an abuser! Every abuser was a victim in the past. The psychosis of many abusers, especially ones with BPD, is that they still think they are victims. This is a false narrative feeding the fire of their own abusive behaviors. I have yet to meet someone with BPD who is an actual victim come adulthood.
Exactly
Cait M Yes!!! My husband is very abusive and feels justified in being so. Because he feels slighted or hurt. And when he hurts, others must hurt as well. He DID have an awful childhood- but that’s not a damn excuse. He is 40 now, not a child. We have our own children and he refuses to get help to better himself because “everyone else is the problem.” On the other hand, my mother was abused far more severely than he ever was, and she was/is a great mom! She has had to work on herself and through her trauma for a lot of her life, but despite her severe childhood abuse, she was never abusive to anyone else, ever.
@@Tara-id3rk I'm sorry you have to go through this with your husband. Sounds like a streak of narcissism in there. They also act like victims. And they are pretty damn difficult to live with.
There's a reason why dealing with somebody with BPD is sometimes likened to "walking on eggshells"
Sorry. I'm trying to get better
@@cherylthompson2731 no sorrys you can only do what you FEEL BEST you can do bpd is a lifelong DISABILITY an ssdi eligible
@@im_saved_by_grace I've been on disability since 1997.thank you.
@@cherylthompson2731 🤗💕
@@cherylthompson2731 what state?
Thank you for speaking to the other side of this. The abuse, harassment, smear campaigns, stalking, etc that come from someone with BPD's splitting is very real, as are the effects on those they aim them at. As a survivor of abuse from someone with BPD, I can tell you, I've felt invalidated many times when discussing it when people, including the abuser, say 'but have sympathy, they have BPD'.
"invalidated" and "abandoned". I see this all the time with my ex-fiance and her family that has it. All of them use invalidation and abandonment all the time. They will use it against each other as well. Deception is a form of invalidation. Add binary thinking to the picture... Cluster B. 💜 💜 💜 💜
Infuriating. They aren't the one being abused. It completly messes you up.
I stop giving them sympathy. Abuse is abuse
@@sgtmuffinbadger6147 Amen! They need to be held accountable just as much as society holds NPD’s accountable. Like I say if someone commits manslaughter they are still held accountable even though they didn’t intentionally commit harm so too should we hold abusers accountable whether their acts are intentionally or unintentionally done.
@@Kayla_Kizzle Holy shit, like yeah and we can trust the legal system in the US to start gathering all the people who have a diagnosis on the cluster B spectrum. Lock them in jail at diagnosis. Not that we would have to personally feed them and make sure they are not experiencing inhuman living conditions with the mass imprisonments and all. Cuz they are the (bad guys) not us. We can trust every mental healthcare professional with female clients not to be swayed by sexism. They will lock up all the abusive Teenage monster girls who get diagnosed with BPD. Because The diagnostic process for mental health is infallible! We are the good guys here🙂👍🏽
I got out of a painful relationship with someone with bpd a few months and I’ve been in severe mental anguish ever since. Over the course of that relationship they were controlling, cruel, and deeply disrespectful of my general personhood. They treated me like they were in love with a version of me they imagined vs who I actually was. I was walking on eggshells all the time, they pushed me to do sexual stuff I didn’t want to and acted like I was hurting them when I got upset afterwards. I bottled up so much emotion trying to keep them happy, I surrendered to every one of their desires out of a need to try and stave conflict off. They went hot and cold on me all the time. One day I was the love of their life they wanted to marry and have kids with as soon as possible, the next they were treating me like a disobedient child. Eventually the situation went bad and he turned on me. It hurt(s) so bad and I can’t tell you how much it means to me to have the fact that people with bpd can be abusive be talked about in such a professional manner. Thank you so much.
Hi! I hope that you're doing better ❤
Im so sorry this happened to you. It’s sounds awfull.. I have bpd and ptsd and really try to not do that to anybody, that is just so wrong ! 😢
Thank you for sharing your story i hope you’re doing well
I went through like something really really similar and it also ended a few months ago
And it helps feeling less lonely knowing that i‘m not the only one
I hope you can move on going through this is extremely hard
Sorry you went through this, so did I and now getting out after enduring years of emotional and physical abuse alternated with endless promises that it would never happen again. The part about treating you like a disobedient child is so spot on, he did that when he had his fits of rage. I hope you’re doing better now 🙏🏼
O they are abusive! I lived it for 2 long awful years. Hateful, mean, yelling, screaming, threatening suicide. Horrible horrible time of my life.
I'm sorry they did that to you. People need to take responsibility in any way they reasonably can, or they should not be surprised they face the consequences. Though, as someone with BPD who's been looking for appropriate help for over a decade and has been working on herself fulltime... It hurts a lot that you can't talk about your 'self-termination' feelings and ideation with anybody. I really actually feel that way when I express that I feel that way. I am burned out from all the stress and I have hypertension from all the cortisol and adrenaline. I keep getting targeted by psychopaths and narcissists because they notice how easy it is to fuck with me emotionally (especially since I have comorbidity with autism and high sensitivity). I need support to weather this storm in my head while I recover towards remission, because I absolutely know I can't break it by myself, but... yeah... Access to healthcare is unfortunately a privelege. :( I'm on the umpteenth waiting list right now...
Yep same. But add physical aggression to that list in my case. I’m sorry you went through that
@@carmensandiego4270yes, I had to leave. Tried to run us off the road several times during his rages (don’t EVER get in a car with them!) choked me several times. And more stuff I dare not even write. I had to get a PFA and my divorce was finalized a few days ago.🙏 Begged him to get help. He said there is nothing anyone can tell him about himself that he doesn’t already know. It’s one thing to want to seek therapy when you know you have a problem. But when you don’t and are physically, mentally and verbally abusive, it’s time to move on. I had to save myself!
My mother has BPD and I have PTSD because of her abuse and the trauma. She never got it treated and still refuses to. I hope anyone who has BPD gets the help they need so they can break the cycle.
My fathers is a malignant narcissist + BPD. Living with him was hell, and dangerous. I’m now healing complex PTSD stemming from his abuse. Some people should be castrated and never allowed to have children.
You can get assistance for bpd ssdi to help as this DISABILITY is lifelong
@@sophiegail7133 yes that's true however when a mom has bpd she's got no clue as that she would be intentionally be hurting the child EMOTIONALLY an she Loves the child it's a DISABILITY LIFELONG an it's best for loved ones family members to EDUCATE themselves on it and GET OUT of blaming mommy when mom's are suffering in silence most
@@im_saved_by_grace I agree except when you said it is a lifelong disability. BPD can be treated and even completely cured with the right techniques for the specific person. Wish you all the best!
@@coralecho2485 yes you can get treatment for to learn copeing skills BPD however it never goes away
I was with one for 7 months. The emotional abuse that I suffered was unreal. I cried almost daily. Whenever I tried to explain how the behavior coming from him was confusing and hurtful, I would be dismissed and devalued further. They are sick, you're not imagining it. They are just as bad as narcissists, maybe worse. Run, don't walk away from these people. You can't prove your love or fix them. They will destroy your peace
NPD is more predictable than someone with (unregulated emotions) BPD. In my own experience, it's much worse to endure & escape the latter.
@@nitareckonkeys agreed! I'm happy for you that you got out
@@jenniferklopman2557 thanks & likewise! ... Albeit both are still cyberstalking (non-local friends as well) & physically stalking. I just stay on the move. 😅
If it was your parent, you couldn’t run. I can now as an adult, but the damage done will be lifelong. Though, I’ve gotten much better with a lot of work. I hope you’re doing well. I fell into a few abusive relationships because it was all I knew. My husband however is the sweetest and kindest man, and I wouldn’t have been able to recognize a good relationship if I had not done the work. It does get better.
My step-mom is convinced I abused her when I was a child. She was the emotional/psychological disorder.
The worst abuse is the coercive underhanded control and manipulation. The emotional and mental abuse is horrific and often difficult to name in specifics. But it is actually what keeps a victim stuck more than anything else.
💯
Can you please do a video on how BPD ex’s behave after a breakup - faking so hard on social media, becoming best friends with people who were never supportive of the relationship, trying to paint a bad picture of the ex in public eye etc ? This would help many of the bpd ex survivors tremendously to wrap our head around their behavior post breakup ❤ thank u appreciate your effort in sharing this knowledge with us ❤
That's just "bad ex" stuff. Not a real disorder
Abuse is abuse regardless of the diagnosis.
But BPD is a special kind of abuse.
I agree! Im moving past this analysis crap slowly but surely and just saying I dont care if you label it the rainbow and berry disorder. Im not tolerating any type of abuse no matter what kind or what medical reasoning or explanation for it.
@@a.j.g1696 nobody is asking you to tolerate it
@@therobin980 Not sure what your deal is but ok. You got your attention for the day 👍
@@princesscake70 BPD is a personality disorder, not abuse
I think the identity issues absolutely can contribute to abuse. My(I'm a woman) ex girlfriend with BPD started copying everything about me and when she'd copy something, she'd start degrading that thing in me. It felt like she was trying to steal my personality or wear me as a skin suit.
Edit: nvm, she's a covert narcissist. If you relate to this… maybe look into that.
This sounds exactly like my dealings with a BPD friend, mine is jumping through HOOPS to get buddy buddy with as many friends of mine that I make visible, then tries to compete with me using my own personality in my said groups and tries to sh*t on me for it.
odd behavior indeed
another manifestation of identity issues is seen when a white woman marries someone who is black or whatever.
@@ZTwo221tell me not that shit creeps you the fuck out
I had an ex start to copy everything I did down to applying to my job
It was absolutely wild. I felt like I was baby sitting a child.
Same thing happened with a mutual friend (or other friend of the borderline idk the person too well.) the BPD went and got a job an hour away at the mutual friends work after complaining that the mutual friend hasn't talked to them for months.
then moved states away from them months later. I'm relieved I managed to keep things online (pain in the ass) but it's annoying when I can't hang with people without having to include that person. Hell I'm even relieved I don't date 🤣@@RyanChand-c5b
You sound really narcissistic honestly
My mother is BPD. People don't believe me (except my husband), but BPDs put people in physical peril. She's tried to jump out of a moving car many, many times. She has attacked me without provocation many times AND she also will fake an injury to implicate me. We were in the same city for a long time, but I moved 2000 miles away when I was 27 to protect myself. She will never get well. Needless to say, my childhood was rough.
Who diagnosed your mother?
@@donnalehman1832 A psychologist who specializes in BPD in NYC that I saw for a year. Also, my psychologist who I've known since I was 33. I'm 50 now. My mom refuses to see anyone so it was his assessment after me talking about it for years....at first he thought it was bi-polar but he changed his mind after a while. Just to let you know, I've thought about this for decades and it was not a decision I came to lightly at all. She refuses help and denies there is anything wrong with her.It's sad because her teeth are rotting, she's malnourished, she doesn't have good hygiene. I send her basics all the time - soap, washclothes, socks...we send her money to suppliment social security. I am her only child and no one wants to be around her - she's a pariah. I would LOVE it if a psychologist could help me. I accept any and all advice for a desperate situation. That being said there is always a chance she had something else.
H Trus. Thank you for responding. I am actually in the same boat you are. My own therapist is the one who educated me about narcissistic abuse. I had no idea exactly what was wrong with my mother. My mother was not as overt as your mother was. My therapist thought my mother most likely has covert NPD. She was much more manipulative and calculating than what you described. And I do believe everything you said. My mother would actually plan things out behind the scenes and then set other people up to be harmed. And of course she never went near to a mental health professional. And she did not want me to see a therapist either. I did finally go no contact 3 years ago. And my life just keeps getting better and better.
H Trus. My heart goes out to you. My mother did not physically attack me very often because she would have my father physically assault me for her. My therapist thought that my father had overt NPD. The dynamic between the 3 of us was: SHE tells HIM what to do to YOU and SHE watches. It is so very kind of you to still be helping your mother. And I am glad that you are doing that from a distance and keeping yourself safe. Your experience made me cry. It made me think of a Bible scripture at Isaiah 65:17 which says, "For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart." So painful childhood memories will be completely gone.
@@donnalehman1832 Thank you.
As the recipient of borderline abuse throughout childhood and then of course as an adult, I can tell you that it is so destructive to the psyche of a person that it generates massive anxiety, depression and self-worth issues which are difficult in the extreme to overcome and which set me up to be victimized over and over by multiple characters because perpetual gaslighting meant I could not differentiate between their pronouncements and judgments and my own beliefs about myself.
Add to that physical, sexual and spiritual abuse and I’m surprised I made it to 66 years of age without taking my life. Thankfully I have had great therapists and church leaders as well as EMPowerplus, a micronutrient formula that helped me heal my brain from a half century of bipolar disorder. I am now 17 years well and actually able to look to the future.
I'm sorry. I have BPD. I will never have a kid because I don't want to pass on my genes. I'm not sure if my mom also had BPD. The cycle doesn't have to beget the cycle. I walk through this world with warmth towards people. I am getting better. I promise you that I will not let this cycle of abuse continue on.
@@Layla-jc2ok Bless your heart! I promise you that your sacrifice will be rewarded and you will have many children in the next life. Thank you for being so self aware and striving to turn your weakness into strengths. Your mother will be proud of you as she watches you from beyond the veil.
@@Layla-jc2ok my partner and I are on the same page as you. I don't want any child of mine to go through what I went through and I'm worried that I would be the cause of that because of my own insecurities.
@@Layla-jc2ok It's not the genes but the trauma you should not pass down to kids.
@@timefortee That is the most insightful thing I've ever read in these threads. Thank You. I wish you all the best.
I was abused by someone with BPD. And I would always excuse it, but in reality the gaslighting, abuse, sexual harassment, even trying to dox me. They are the reason I hate using the word survivor.
They always claimed to be a survivor. Which is fine, they've been through a lot. But bcuz of them, I'm now a survivor myself. I don't want to be associated to them in any way.
I was only 16-17 at the time. In the middle of covid-19. They really had issues, and oh boy, we're they good at manipulating. I hate the fact they're probably still out there living with confidence , while I'm still suffering their abuse and it's been just a year away from them.
I'm. Still. STILL trying to accept the fact it was never my fault
Ive gone through the worst abuse perpetrated by someone with BPD who claims I'm the most important person in their life. Horrible and traumatizing experience
I'm so glad that somebody is finally taking a firm stance on sporks.
I’ve had a person with borderline claiming they love me more than anyone else on the planet treat me worse than my worst enemy. They are unpredictable and ruthless. And I don’t care what anyone says, there is no excuse to be that rotten to another person..disorder or otherwise.
same here! She was the best and the worst girlfriend i ever had ! She took care of me / she hit me .. she would say beautiful things to me / and the worst things .I exhausted myself helping her .. Its devastating … its been 2 month now and im still .. thinking about her on a daily base .. i wish i could erase and take back 3 years of my life and get my head back …
Me too exactly the same. I've not spoken in nearly 2 months false police accusations. Worse nightmare. I got the courage to leave the relationship with the clothes on my back, lost everything. I have a 3 year old son with her that makes it so much worse.
@@fezzy19 I’m coming up on 1 year of no contact with my BPD ex. If you want it to work you have to commit to the no contact. I blocked and deleted every avenue she had to reach me. Including mutual friends and her family. She did slip through a crack a few months ago by sending me a message through friend of mine I didn’t know she was in contact of. My friend send me a screenshot of her message , it was clearly trying to provoke me to contact her. I didn’t. It hasn’t been easy. I still think about her every single day, multiple times a day. They are a drug. Addicting but hollow and bad for your quality of life. Take it a day at time, try your best to resist their traps and stay no contact if you can. Having a child with them has to make that extremely difficult I’m sure.
Dawg I feel you…but it’s literally the disorder that causes it.
Dr. Grande.....I want to thank you for your videos. I was diagnosed with BPD about 14 years ago and have worked very hard to overcome it. Watching your videos in the later stage of treatment has given me a frame of sorts to piece together and understand how to help myself within the context of treatment. On August 7, 2019, I was told by my psychiatrist I won my battle with BPD. Practitioners who create these videos like yourself are absolutely invaluable at each and every step of treatment to gain insight and understanding as we go. Again, I’m just so grateful for your years of study and the tedious and most times thankless work you do with folks like me. Thank you. 🍃🌸🍃🙏🏻🍃🌸
just curious, what exactly does the phrase "won my battle with BPD" mean ? This makes it out to be a curable condition like a flu. Now that you have been pronounced as "winning the battle" what does that mean for the future? My sister has BPD and her problems are so severe it is hard to even imagine that there is a "Cure", in fact I and others feel she has only gotten worse with age. Sad, but I am scared of what she may be capable of doing. She has terrible spontaneous anger that is irrational yet no way to reason with her. She has threatened my life on occasion. Then guilts me if I avoid her. She expects everyone to cater to her mental illness and maybe that is why she is worse now I don 't know. This seems to have a genetic component. She has 2 kids adopted out to different families and both have issues.
Nicolaxoxo1
Well, I’d first have to say if you’re looking at a “cure” for BPD in the same way you would look for a “cure” to the flue, I believe you are on to a good comparison. Except perhaps where the length of process is concerned. In any event, the “cure” for BPD is a long, painful process. The flue is a painful process as well, however, one can usually assume that process is a week on average and not 14+ years. Winning my “battle” to me means I do not have severe fear of abandonment. If someone wants to leave my life, what control do I have over it? None. Zero. So, in this regard, I guess I’ve let go of outcomes. I do not feel empty inside. I have resources internally I need to draw on to sustain myself when others cannot make those “deposits” into me. I have control over myself and my actions today, not over others actions. I am completely non-aggressive towards anyone either verbally or physically, including myself. My self talk supports who I am today. Not what caregivers said about me 100 years ago. When angry, I let the anger move me forward, I don’t strike out at others. To manage anxiety, I try and deal with the anger I’m suppressing and write about my feelings. Triangulation, projective identification, projection, transference are all in check. I’ve grieved my traumas, and sorted out the tangled memories. These things did not happen in a year or two, they happened over a period of 14 ish years. If your family member is acting out in this way, perhaps ending the co-dependent relationship you all are having would be helpful? Remembering that “guilt” is the glue that keeps dysfunction together. You’d have to speak to a professional. In my experience, the person diagnosed with BPD is in many ways simply the identified patient or scapegoat in a family system that is sick. Moreover, the family unconsciously supports this bad behavior to keep the patient the problem so that they do not have to do their own work to get better. It’s as if to say, look, she/he is sick and that makes us well by default. But that’s not how it works in reality. Again, talk to a professional like Dr. Grande. I’m only sharing my experience. It’s a developmental disorder at its foundation in my opinion. One must grow through it over time and mature intellectually and emotionally.
No one celebrated with me when I no longer met the criteria for BPD. This is because they were feeling sad they would not have anyone else to blame for their “problems” I believe. But, that’s speculation on my part. In truth, we never know what someone else thinks or feels unless they tell us.
Who knows? All I know is unlike if I had cancer and was pronounced cured, the congratulations would pour in, cards, prayers, flowers perhaps. Unfortunately, the nature of BPD, and how the patient affects others, does not illicit this response. Everyone takes what the patient says and does personally so there are lingering resentments.
I’ve had to fight hard using the skills and tools I have in order to gain my self-respect and a modicum of respect from friends and family. My doctor thinks I’m awesome! That’s because we did it together.
Good luck! Perhaps if your relative is so bad to you, you could examine why you don’t or are unable to move away from them? If someone were hurting me in these ways, I would make a plan and execute that plan to detach completely. All the best on your journey. You are not waiting for the flue to pass with your loved one, you are waiting for many, many seasons to pass and objectively noting the progress over the course of those seasons. And one day, perhaps the fruit will be manifested from this tiny tree struggling to grow.......patience my friend. Everything in its time.🍃🌸🍃
@@gailwestphal1604 First I want to congratulate you. Amazing job and I hope you keep at it. With the understanding that your in a healthy place I do have a nit pick I guess you would call it.
*No one celebrated with me when I no longer met the criteria for BPD. This is because they were feeling sad they would not have anyone else to blame for their “problems” I believe. But, that’s speculation on my part. In truth, we never know what someone else thinks or feels unless they tell us*
I'm not sure if you went through DBT (as opposed to CBT or some other treatment) but if you did this is, not wrong per say, but a bit of a warning flag. You understand that its speculation and thats great but can you come up with any other reasoning for this reaction? And then ask them why. I understand that BPD manifests in a different way for each individual but this is something I had a really hard time with myself. Don't let what you think may be the cause determine your emotions and reactions. Verify it, though if your at a stage were it doesn't bother you either way then its a moot point.
Anyway great post and I'm glad that your better. Merry Christmas.
Gail Westphal you seem like you’ve gained so much insight through this process... so few people with PDs ever even want help, that you not only sought it out, owned your behavior, AND did this while in a situation that reinforced the cycle... truly, I hope I can become as strong as you
I'm glad you didn't run from that diagnosis
After about 6 months with my former BPD fiance, I realized that he read reality in a very bizarre way. Reality to him was "how he felt inside at that moment." So if he felt angry, then ipso facto, I was "doing" something to make him angry, even if I was smiling and putting a delicious home-cooked meal in front of him. Conversely, if I was seething inside but he felt happy and light-hearted, then I was doing something good for him. Objective reality, cause and effect, was meaningless, and his regular explosive rage was unpredictable. It was all subjective and he was the only subject in the room.I realized after about a year that I was developing symptoms too and I knew I had to get out. I realized that he couldn't love me and that what I thought I loved about him was just me loving myself. I was the only empathetic lover in the room. I had to orchestrate him leaving me because there was no way he could have suffered me leaving him. What a nightmare! Unfortunately I developed PTSD from it and yeah...that was 13 years ago but he ruined my life. He was a PhD Psychotherapist with a private practice and was a court expert in child custody cases. Most of our friends thought he was kind and wonderful. Only his former intimate partners understood his dangerous Jekyll-Hyde nature. He hid it so well. He met all the DSM criteria except I never felt that he was suicidal although he was dangerously impulsive.
stupid people syndrome😆.
@Kinky I'm so sorry you went through that. That sounds awful, and I'm so sorry you developed PTSD. That sounds like it's so hard to live with, and I wish you the absolute best luck in healing. Unfortunately people with personality disorders lack insight very often, and they can't see that they're acting immorally. It may take the significant effort, strength, and grace of the person they hurt to make them understand reality. If the BPD person is open to understanding and seeing this, it can spur great personal change in them (though this will generally be accompanied by longlasting intense agony and shame, for them), and may prevent them from hurting others in that way again. This may not mean that the BPD person will heal (they may be much worse off, personally), but at least they won't continue to abuse or hurt others.
I know this was 13 years ago for you, and one must do one's own healing first, indeed. But it may help if you tell him how he made you feel. If you never want to reach back out to him, you are entirely justified in your choice. You must do what is best for you first! And you certainly have no moral obligation to try to fix him. But if you think he might be open to realizing that he hurt you, sometimes all it takes is a letter. Of course, you must feel safe, so please don't do this if it would endanger your mental or physical safety! But it may provide some closure, and it may make him realize how horrible he was. And he might change.
I write this because I was the BPD person who was shook from my delusion into reality by the person I hurt, who is a fantastically graceful, patient, and kind human being. I now realize that I have to work every single moment to never hurt anyone ever again, and to do all I can to help others. I am still very broken, but at least the world is safe from my BPD thinking now. And I'm doing what I can to repay my debts to society tenfold.
Everyone is different and I don't know you, your situation, or him, of course. He may be totally unwilling to change or listen. He may react poorly to a letter. Maybe the best letter, for you, is one that you write and don't send. I don't know. But I hope you know that, in general, BPD people can realize what they've done, and stop their behavior. I don't know if this makes you feel better personally, but if you ever wondered if there was hope, in a general sense, in the world, for people in your position, I think there is. Best of luck in life! I ardently hope you can heal.
Yikes he was a therapist an child advocate 😬 his issues took full court with his clients depending on his mood swings at the moment glad you got out sorry for your trauma he caused
@@q44444q It did help me. I recently had a relationship with a bpd woman. It was the first relationship i had in a very, very long time when i hadn't dared to love anyone. She was undergoing treatment for bpd and ptsd. I was always very aware of the risks since she informed me about her diagnosis. To me it's very important to feel that some of the affection she showed and nice things she did meant something. And i did feel there was a difference between some things she did that seemed motivated only by fear of being abandoned and other things that seemed genuinly caring in a constructive way including trying to controll certain behaviours. If i see her as only manipulative and ill, that means affection i felt from her that meant much to me was worthless which really hurts and feels untrue. So thanks!
@@mbostrom we’re not all manipulative and can actually care about ppl. Just like regular ppl though there are assholes in the bunch as well 🤷🏿♂️
One more point: violence isn’t always physical. There is physical violence, but also psychological and also emotional. That’s why Domestic Violence includes all 3 types of violence and on a spectrum. A continuation of increasing severity and frequency.
Emotional abuse can cause far, far, FAR more painful than mild physical abuse, but legally and morally, mild physical abuse is way worse than extreme emotional abuse. This is because bodily autonomy is the most fundamental kind of freedom. The Nozick types argue all property rights are downstream from bodily autonomy. Rawlsians like myself argue most people are too risk averse to consent to a social contract that didn't make bodily autonomy the highest priority if we didn't know who we would be in the resulting society.
Less philosophically, people with BPD often "justify" their physical violence by citing the internal suffering their partners have caused them. If emotional abuse isn't qualitatively distinct from physical violence, then, if we squint our eyes, we can see how "an eye for an eye" translates to "a punch for making me feel guilty about abusing you" in their twisted minds.
I remember having this very discussion with my abusive BPD ex. I was, and still am, horrified that she doesn't make a categorical distinction between physical violence and other forms of abuse. She could never understand that offensive physical violence isn't just an attack on a person. It's an attack on the very principle of freedom, and it's an attack on justice itself.
@@SynercoBut we don't agree on justice, philosophically everything still works. Morality, is fickle and relative to culture. So subjectively, everyone is justified in their bad behaviour.
Eye for an eye has to be understood as being imprinted on your soul, it's like a rule book, and going against it hurts yourself, you feel worthless, ashamed and this causes identity disturbances, diffusion and hella dysphoria.
It's mind fucking bro. Lashing out makes it so I almost never really hyperfixate on that bad event, if I don't lash out I sit and simmer in revenge fantasies for years....
The fact I have the self awareness to know this, self isolate and not kill myself from how lonely and resentful this existence is, it's a miracle 😂 I definitely hope this pays off...
Also I say the exact same mentality around abuse and I always have one of those "Jesus Christ I have BPD moments", cause I'm not diagnosed...
From my perspective, that's genuinely how it "feels". Like I've been raped, cheated on, Best Friend Overdosed, cousin blew his head off, it's all one big blob of "distress". I can't rationalize it carrying different levels of material harm, but even trauma is entirely a perceived subjective experience with no throughline, everyone reacts different.
I like to think of BPD like that, there's no stable values, moral systems and everything is judged based off a point system in the moment.
I knew there was something wrong, when cheating hurts more than being sexually assaulted, like clearly my brain has split cheating black.
@@Synerco having gone through both from the hands of a BPD person, I’ll say physical abuse is worse. Having someone way stronger than you threaten to kill you and not let you physically leave a room to calm down during an argument is terrifying and humiliating . As painful as the emotional abuse is , at least it doesn’t have the extra layer of trauma and confusion that comes from being scared that someone who should be protecting you is actually harming you.
I'm so appreciative of this video Dr. Grande. In my case I used to get abuse from my sister. One day I was the best person in the world and the next day I'm the enemy. Her anger can get extreme but not violent. She has serious abandonment issues and so many people have just walked away from her. I had to put a distance between us and now we don't see each other and rarely talk on the phone. I had to do it for my own well being. It has made a big positive change in my life. :)
I understand ur comment very much
Exactly the same for me
BPD Abuse is REAL. This needs to be talked about. Like if you've been Abused by someone with BPD and they tried to play victim using their BPD ⬇️
Why aren't we talking about borderline abuse. A lot of untreated bpd are abusive. Where is the awareness of it.
Less social stigma due to the hype of abuse being centred aroun Narcissism. Too often people assume their abuser or toxic lover is narcissistic when i fact it could very likely be something else. Like BPD.
@@peaceunion5316 join couple of BPD groups and see how quickly you realize that people with BPD try to paint themselves as 100% victims and any time someone mentions something terrible someone with BPD did, the people in the group will immediately go to "well that person sounds like a narcissist not BPD"
Out of all the Cluster B's, BPD seems to be most protected when it comes to discussing their destructive behavior. You dare question it, you will get tons of people on your case.
Yes it is an abuse on themselves as well as the spouse and family!
@@CaptainCharismaY2J as a male BPD myself I notice that where i am from people don't seem to believe BPD exists or is a legitimate personality disorder which is terrible. But a lot of BPD sufferers I know (women) all excuse their behaviour and lack self awareness to admit fault and one's part in a situation. It took me a few years to develop this self awareness or insight capacity now I can recognise and admit responsibility for things even if it is BPD trigger reaction.
I like the term borderline abuse, it validates my perspective as an abuse victim
People call it Narcissistic Abuse, but since it's women, they coddle them and won't call it BPD abuse, also there's a difference between stigma within the mental health community, vs stigma in the greater community. Obviously they deserve help from the mental health community, but that doesn't mean survivors should be further gaslit by people, to coddle abusers.
@williambogert574 Sorry to tell you, but my BPD abuser was a man and my ex with NPD NEVER abused me because he was self aware.
@@williambogert574 hey buddy, my Ex was a whole 25 year old man and was one of the most abusive people physically and emotionally I’ve ever met. Not just towards me but towards his family. But they’ll just say it’s not his fault cus his daddy left and he has BPD. Borderlines always victimize themselves whether their males or females. It’s just the nature of the disorder. Genderless.
I’m glad it’s being talked about. This disorder is always handled with kid gloves and there’s the implication they’re badly stigmatized. Only who has gone through it as a BPD partner / loved one knows the horrors they can put you through. Based on my personal experience and many many others which I’ve read about, this is not a “stigma” - there is a reason why this disorder is talked about the way it is ; and it’s because the awful things that are said about it are most often true
my experience of borderlines is that it's all or nothing, and when it's nothing they will look for literally any means possible to hurt you, nothing too shocking or unfair. The other thing is awareness and manipulation of the options available to them; many know fine well they have BPD but they also know that to say they have BPD to a victim is something they can blame their outbursts on (so they can do it again, at some near point in future when the mood takes them)
Hi Dr. Grande, for the symptom chronic feeling of emptiness, I believe this could be related to abuse if a person with BPD uses their romantic partner to get rid of this feeling of emptiness. They may pressure their romantic partner to spend all their time on them or make the romantic partner feel responsible for making them happy.
Thank you for the informative video
I have a friend who did exactly this to his girlfriend. He also tells me he always feels empty. He has a lot of the borderline symptoms, very obviousely. Everyone tells him to see a therapist but he just lies afterwards and tells everyone he went when he didn't. I don't know if I should tell him that I think he might have this. Not sure what he will do with that information.
Kelly Castro my bpd ex was incredibly possessive, jealous and monitored every conversation I had with any Male. Yet, he used to leave the door open ajar for this woman who asked him out twice while we were together. And in every argument he would bring up her name to make me jealous, insecure and basically show me that if i don’t meet his unjust and selfish needs, he has other options. He would straight out tell me in every fight ‘’if you leave me I’ll go with her’’ or ‘’she’s a good girl not like you, she’s better for me’’ 1 week after we broke up I actually caught him on a dinner date with her, first hand. Sadly I witnessed him doing the thing he always threatened to do. There are no excuses for this behaviour, bpd or not he is an utter cunt.
I second this Kelly. The pwBPD has a natural urge to be served, and is terrified of being alone. Especially when you combine this with the rage and perceived abandonment if the partner says 'no', this can be very controlling, forcing the partner into a caretaker role. If the partner has chosen to be a caretaker that is one thing, otherwise it is essentially servitude. Of course it isn't deliberate manipulation, but nonetheless the partner is being bullied into submission.
@@brentpatterson218 The fact that you were that submissive to her says more about you than her...
The fear of abandonment that my boyfriend with bpd has (before I moved out and got away from him) caused tons of problems. He even told me that if I died before him while we were together, he would for sure need to have another relationship because he couldn’t be alone. That hurt and made me feel like he wasn’t in love with me but rather that I was just a placeholder for the job of girlfriend. Because if I died young or old before him he would move on and replace me. I wouldn’t have been enough for him. And he would also guilt me constantly that his worst fear was me leaving wich made me feel pressured to make it work out even when he turned abusive. And if I ever turned down a sexual advance because I didn’t feel like it right then (I have a pretty high drive for a girl so no I wasn’t depriving him of a normal amount of sexual intimacy) he would say that I didn’t find him attractive anymore and that he was “a turn off” but he was extremely selfish in bed and I doubt he cared whether I enjoyed it or not. He was a fan of getting a bj and then claiming he was too tired to do anything for me. And if something was causing me pain, he would ignore me if he was enjoying it, and keep right on hurting me till he was done. I consider that basically rape because I would say no and stop and try to get away and he would not stop or let me go. He told me an ex “falsely accused him of rape” now I’m not so sure it was a false accusation. But what I learned was that I don’t want to be a placeholder for a relationship and I won’t put up with abuse from a partner ever again
Abuse is abuse, regardless of how or why. No excuse is a good excuse when it comes to abuse.
i dont think he was saying bpd is an excuse, he was outlining the mental health condition's manifestation.
As someone who was abused, I agree but I don't think anyone is meaning to "excuse" it.
Understanding why something took place can take a lot of weight off of the survivors shoulders.
Touche. There are always going to be cycles of abuse. The abused become the abusers. We can only hope that more people start to wake up and stop the cycle.
An explanation. Not an excuse 🤷🏻♀️
Dr. Grande wasn't making excuses for abuse.
My sister has BPD. She used to attack her husband every time he had to go on a business trip, accusing him of leaving her and being unfaithful, not loving her and what not; and ofc cheat when he was out of the house to "get revenge" and accusing him of making her do it when he found out about it. Even though the person with BPD may suffer, they kind of drag every body around them down the drain as well, they are impossible to be around. If someone just looked at her funny she would get over the board agressive, and there isn't one person in the family she hasn't called a 4 in the morning and yelled about something she thinks they have done, or that happened like 30 years ago. I don't know one person with BPD who doesn't abuse someone they are close to. I think that is where the claim comes from...
Sixteen years living next to a woman with BPD. I tried to keep the peace but ultimately it’s impossible. Little chance that she or I will move out but I no longer speak to her. Professionals complain about how stigmatised the disorder is but talk to anyone who’s been in close proximity with someone who has the disorder and isn’t motivated to get treatment. All the people I know who’ve had that experience say they’ve been abused, often for no apparent reason.
Yes, I agree. My oldest daughter has a SEVERE case of BPD. Just crazier all the time. Her pattern is to hang out at bars when her last "boy friend" has finally kicked her out. She is a cute blonde and the men can't believe their luck when they meet her. She is careful to maintain a totally fake "cover" until the fool asks her to move in with him. ( He must not have kids still living at home.) Once she is living with him, she lets her cover crumble, and screaming arguments and physical abuse become the norm. The guy gets to a point of desperation to get away from her. This is what happens over and over and it is the pattern of her life. She is one scary gal when things begin to break down. About a month ago, she turned her wrath toward me. I decided to block her, and it has turned out to be a real relief. Of course, she has cycled through her rage and has made it known that she wants to mend her relationship with me and feels "sorry" for the horrible things she said when she was raging at me. These people are stuck in a pathetic pattern that repeats itself endlessly. Right now I'm holding her at a distance, but you moms and dads out there are also pulled by their emotions to actually go ahead, give in, enjoy a brief time of peace with their sick, sick child, all the while knowing the hard fact that it cannot last long, no matter how loving and understanding you may feel toward your sicko, psycho, insane little offspring who actually still secretly despise you to the point of wishing you were dead. I had an elderly aunt as I was growing up. She would occasionally come to spend a few weeks with us after she lost her husband. She loved to look at me and say, "Youre eating your white bread now!," meaning that as I trudged through life, I would surely have at least a few bumps in the road. But my wonderful old aunt, nor I myself EVER DREAMED there was such a thing as BPD!!! It's just so, so bad that it feels unreal in a sense.
Nancy Ayers it’s interesting that your daughter can mask until she moves in with the new partner. Kind of suggests that she has control over her behaviour.
Kevin - she was born with it, and I can testify I believe this because in the first few days of her life, she caused me to begin to wonder. She grew from birth to display disturbing behaviors. Her main problem was she did not want anyone cuddling her and would "freeze" in response. The outpouring of rage built up gradually, except for a brief remission when she started first grade up to about eleven or twelve, then after entering all hell broke loose. She literally sneaked out of the house one night at age fourteen and never came back. Her rage is enormous. also her dad's tyrannical narcissism, another disorder, I believe also affected our family. She is becoming someone who is scary, I have never had extra money to take her to someone for private medical attention, but I've read that if a particular counselor is seen, that it is very difficult to really treat this disorder, too, and that the vast majority do not even improve during and after treatment. It's very hard for her keep a job - or a romantic relationship. Her life so far has been scorched Earth. I have always tried to help her. She believes I never have, although I have spent decades trying. Also, I am not "Mommy" to her, but a mentally ill person who is, in her words, a crazy f.....g bitch. She is nothing but rage on steroids. I have actually tried to tell her, but gotten nowhere.
@Makica 1981 Okay, but if you were around her for a very short time I believe you would change your mind.
Yes, they can be abusive and you don't have to put up with it just because they have a disorder!
Thank you I needed to hear this
Needed to hear this !
@@ManjuKannan23 I know it's tough to hear. :(
@@Flamsterette I need to learn more about bPD abuse ! It’s not healthy to be with any cluster b in my humble opinion
@@ManjuKannan23 No, it's not healthy - even if they're your family! You want to get away from them!
I miss the manipulation part. And I know there is a lot of stigma on Borderline but i am a bit confounded
.. In this video, I feel like we as ''victims'' from the abusive borderliners are not allowed to feel the pain they because well they are victims too. Of course they are victims themselves most of them suffered enormously but in my situation, it was a game of power and breaking me down and destroying me. I'm sure that's not only borderline but that's the only diagnosis she had. But despite missing the manipulation part its very eyeopening to hear the rest of your explanations .
My opinion is that you are never required to forgive your abusers. Many abusers were abused in their past, regardless of diagnosis or whether they even have one, but it gives them no excuse to abuse others. People with BPD often have difficulty seeing when they are being abusive because it is often unintended and they might see themselves as the victim instead, or feel that their actions are justified. Past abuse can solidify this idea that others are the abusers and not the person with BPD. It is the person with BPD’s responsibility to be self aware of their actions and work toward treatment to avoid becoming an abuser or continuing to be abusive.
I have been on the receiving end of BPD abuse and have also been diagnosed with this disorder myself, so I can see both perspectives; but ultimately the person with BPD has to realize their maladaptive behaviors and how they affect others in order to make progress and avoid inflicting pain in other’s lives and their own. You are a survivor of abuse and are not required to feel bad for them because of their BPD or because they were abused.
Borderlines are inherently abusive. End of story.
@@dylanv9463 not necessarily true. This is innacurate.
@@peaceunion5316 It all starts with the question what pathological borderline is. When we are talking about 8,9/9 traits, then we aren't talking about borderline traits anymore, we are in the middle of covert narcissism and secondary psychopathy then. I feel there are exceptions and that it is a continuum but whatever one might believe, it's still a legit Cluster B PD. I even think sociopaths aren't necessarily abusive. Same with narcs and histrionics.
@@abmo32 borderlines are covertly narcissistic but do not have NPD. This is what sometimes leads to abusive behaviour
Borderline abuse is 100% real. My ex did everything mentioned in this video and more; add sexual abuse, manipulation, using his life to trap me (if you leave or argue I'll kill myself), isolation to get rid of any friends and family at any cost, he was diagnosed with borderline.
More awareness is needed around this topic because I see information on narcissistic abuse everywhere, and it gets me no closure because although it might appear similar it's not the same thing.
Also, people just hear BPD and think the person is just suffering so much inside that their abuse is justified or they're not capable of it to begin with because they can be so deluded and truly paint themselves as the victim flipping the story completely. It's life destroying!!
Before anyone complains I am not saying all Borderlines abuse, but the one I personally experienced did, and there are definitely more out there who do.
keep in mind that it could be that your ex was a narcissist misdiagnosed as a borderline
@@pangloss8394 he could well be a hybrid somewhere between the two, but he definitely has borderline traits. I can see it in him a mile off :(
"If you disagree with me, I'll kill myself." "You dont really love me." Yes, that is BPD. My mom had it and abused me for over 20 years. Constantly threatening suicide and accusing me of not loving her.
@@pangloss8394 No. Her description is spot on of a borderline. The suicide threats and attempts are one thing that separates it from narcissism. But BPD has about 90% overlap with narcissism.
He was bpd and covert narcissist for sure, don't you think? It's so weird to me, why coverts don't have their own diagnose, they are the worst!
Im very alert to BPD … I have 0 tolerance for people with it who refuse to get help
Even with help it doesn't change them. Extends the time between episodes by about 5 minutes...
@@irongloves89😂😂
@@irongloves89 nah, theraphy is highly effective. More than with other disorders even. I will assume you guys are from the Us for how much your hopes about theraphy are broken.
@@theGhostStewardprobably. They usually just throw pills at us over here in the States. :/
@@jazeenharal6013 that's horrible:/
I would argue the feeling of emptiness is deeply involved with abuse, because it’s what drives pwBPDs to use others as emotional batteries, and because they mistake their intense longings with genuine love
Your video made me realize two things: my ex’s reading of my messages was paranoid ideation, to see if i was speaking ill of him and represents that criterion. Also, that something i did which sparked a two month silent treatment and end of the relationship was because i stood up to his emotional abuse and that triggered an elevated fear of abandonment. Thanks for helping me figure that out.
Dr Grande thank you for so clearly explaining the exact abuse I suffered at the hands of my ex-partner, you could have been describing him!! The irrational explosive anger, the use of any object at hand to threaten or inflict abuse (no spork, but once did try to use a disposable plastic razor to cut my throat along with the more conventional knives and a screwdriver!) and the lack of any real understanding of what he had subjected me to during those terrifying attacks. His refusal to acknowledge his problem and seek help was the most terrifying aspect of all...
Sounds just like my BPD partner.
The recalcitrance to seek any help whatsoever - yes, exactly. To completely stonewall. Yes, that gets to the heart of it.
My ex was like that too. It completely dysregulated my nervous system to the point of disability. Even without the physical part of the abuse its still physical. On you.
The ups and downs. The feeling of constantly walking through a minefield and walking on eggshells. The way they bring out this devil in you that even you have never seen before. The vengeance you get pushed to take. It's been almost 2 years since my breakup with a BPD ex and although I'm long over her and the relationship, something about that chaotic, addicting rollercoaster changes you to the core. I've had plenty of relationships and plenty of breakups. They are never fun, but when your partner has BPD it will be the most toxic and traumatic ending you'll ever know- when it actually ends, of course. Not one of the many short-term breakups. 2 years later and I'm still shell shocked by it. And i didn't realize how much it still affects me until just the other day. I don't think about her any more, but I had to develop so many thought patterns, habits, and behaviors just to survive and I don't know how to not be at war any more. I feel broken. Not in a sad/depressed way, but broken in the sense that the person I was when going into that relationship never came out of it. I don't know how to love any more. I don't know how to trust any more. Im in a relationship with a new person that absolutely genuinely loves me and deserves the best, and I feel awful for being this deeply scarred person that no longer feels okay with giving a relationship my all. And the worst part about it is that the person with BPD was over you in the snap of a finger. They probably hardly remember you and what memories they do have are the times that you were pushed to the edge and probably blew up on them.
It's been 3 months since I broke up with her. We should consider ourselves lucky it was the type of BPD where they are 'over you in the snap of a finger'. I've been doing much research as probably have you and many men find themselves in legal or lethal trouble after a breakup... In the past couple of weeks what really made me get over her was realizing she was BPD and realizing just what that means. To me, it means she is a complete hole of a human being. She never truly loved me or cared. I was her tool to keep her emotionally occupied. As is this next guy she is with. Her new victim.. I sometimes speculate as to whether she is actually evil, if she is consciously manifesting much of her behavior. Alas I'll never know but what I do know is she is a parasite moving from one host to the next. For some reason this knowledge liberates me. I realize the whole relationship was a trick. And as such, how can I be hurt anymore? Moving forward I now know the truth of it.
@@brentpatterson218 As someone with BPD, I have to disagree. The addiction to the painful rollercoaster-like love wasn't just from your side. When I'm in a relationship, I love the person I'm with. I adore them and I would do anything and everything for them. But there will be moments where this love turns to hate, like a fire fueled by oil. My first relationship lasted two years, on and off. Those two years felt like a growing heroin addiction. At first it was lighthearted and sweet, but near the end it felt more like a burning prison. You love someone with every cell of your body and more, yet you always find yourself full of hate. You would die for their attention and their love, yet it is never enough and it will never be enough.
So if your ex really has BPD, I do believe that she truly loved you and she will never forget you. It might not seem that way, but there is a constant desire to love and to be loved. The addiction you felt when you were in the relationship is a rush that she will forever chase, because that addiction lasts a lifetime for her.
@@epicXtrollface thanks for the feedback. Over the months of research, the thinking of mine you're criticizing has evolved. I think she might have been co-morbid with narcissism..
I can't read her mind obv. But even with what you're saying, it seems like the bpd isn't in a healthy love with their partner. It seemed I was there to fill her void. Therefore I don't think it's a real love. I totally get that y'all feel deeply, but I see it as projecting idealistic/devaluing emotions onto me in order to heal her own trauma. Completely self-serving and unconscious in the case of bpd. I'd think a narc is more conscious (which is what I still debate about her case)
Ironically this can traumatize the partner. I actually spoke with her recently and she still stands behind this belief that I never truly loved her or cared about her. If I was a weaker person, that alone would be traumatizing. I was a little hurt by that. But it actually helped me heal as I realized more clearly than ever that she is emotionally operating from the scope of a 12 year old. I can't reason with her. She is like gollum in her cave obsessing over the ring. "Gollum loves and hates the rings as he loves and hates himself"
Best of luck to you btw.
Me too. Same thing for me as well. I’m changed after my dance with the devil. I have to think that I was naive before. I mistakenly thought there would always be some level of reciprocity but I simply never met evil like that before. I’m proud that I got up , picked up my dog, put my stuff in the car and left her behind. I thought I was building toward something, that we would have each other, but it was not to be. Hard to accept.
Somebody's borderline emotional rollercoaster broke my own emotional regulation. It really sucks that they decide to go around spreading their own poison like that. I am just glad I know better now.
My ex girlfriend had BPD. We broke up because of a knife. Maybe if she had gone for a spork we'd still be together lol
I feel you brother. I had a knife pulled on me twice.
@@epicmercury333 Once was enough for me - 🔪 DONE.
@@kamroc1 Yeah, it should have been for me too! #stupidity
@@epicmercury333 If you're stupid, 90 % of us are right there too.
@@mystijkissler8183 I appreciate your gracefulness.
People of BPD are suffering and are definitely the victim very often that's for sure. And they'll make sure that you don't forget it.
Hot Stuff oh my god bro
Wow. I can’t tell you how much I identify with this in relation to my mother. Grateful I’m not alone in going through this.
Being a victim gets them attention so why would they want it any other way? Heaven forbid they might have to start taking responsibility for their own life 🙄
You've got that right.
@@caitm8209 Yep.
Just having some (a lot of) validation, contradicting all of the projection and gaslighting...it’s huge man. Thanks 🙏🏼
I'm happy you are addressing this issue because it has astronomical effects on all of the people involved. What I hate as someone living with BPD is the absolute sadness and dispair that I have caused any abuse or demeaning gestures. It's impossible for me to accept that I have no control over myself. Though it sounds cliche I don't mean it at all. Don't even know where the train derailed. Both parties either friend or romantic suffer one from abuse the other pure hell. I wish this was more understood all the way around. Life gets awfully lonely for us
I don’t understand why we are being careful not to stigmatise BPD, but are quite comfortable with stigmatising NPD. My ex is only diagnosed with NPD, but has all of the BPD behaviours as well, so obviously comorbid. The symptoms of both are equally traumatising to the victim. And I think bpd is worse because people with just NPD apparently discard their exes, whereas my ex continued his abuse in an all encompassing attack 5 years post breakup. Which I’ve heard others with bpd exes have experienced too. That’s hideous, that you can’t even break up and cut them off completely, they’ll stalk, vandalise, threaten, make false allegations and try to physically attack you no matter what you do to escape. Yeah the NPD part is more cunning and there’s a lot of poisoning others into attacking you on their behalf post breakup, and character assassination and of course I experienced all of that too, but typically NPD people stop and go silent, bpd are relentless. Forget about whether it’s stigmatising or not, everyone needs to know how life destroying and terrifying these people are so that they don’t become unsuspecting victims of this.
Probably because then the comment section would be full of people screeching about it, unaware they are living up to the stigma lol
My husband was diagnosed with Covert Narcissism, but had just as many traits of BPD without the formal diagnosis. The damage done to the family of people who have both disorders is unimaginable. 😢
I agree. But also I think because of the prognosis and the fact bpd ppl can feel positive emotions unlike npd ppl, I think ppl actually walk more on eggshells than with a npd person. This varies on the subtype; but in general I’d say npd are full vampires and bpd might be seen as half human - half vampire. And then there’s the scale of mild to severe on top of that.
This can be true not just with their romantic partners, but with coworkers. I have a coworker that is scary and seems to get fixated on people who have things (skills, items, etc.) that they want…. And when that happens it’s game on! They’re super competitive and will utilize other coworkers to figure out what you’re doing or even move their cubicle closer to you to know what you’re doing professionally and in your private life. Then they want to mimic your skills and ambitions. I’ve also been lied about by this person many times… their mistake becomes your mistake by blaming you for it (item of opportunity).
BPD, sorry, you can’t be nice to such people when they are abusing you and you don’t have a real relationship with them (they may be your coworker and seem to want to deeply snatch your identity at any cost which makes them… a really scary coworker).
My best hope is to separate myself with as much distance… ie removing myself from the shared work environment so that the abuse will stop. Not sure why this person hasn’t been fired long time ago because for many years they’ve never put in an 8 hour day at their job- I’ve literally seen this person come in at 11:00am… impulsively take a 1-2 hour lunch… then leave 3:30 or 4pm. Then take 2 days off in the same week and then cry to their “best friend” in HR that they don’t have any vacation or sick hours… then to repeat the pattern again in less than a week. Us coworkers are not sure how she can get away with not working for many years… however this person is quick to accuse others of not working or not working as “hard” as she does.
Mental health in the workplace is horrible especially for those who may not have it. But especially when those with such disorders are ruthless in ruining other people’s lives because they are feeling super small about themselves.
That sounds like narcissism.... not just bpd
Sucks either way!
As someone with BPD, this sounds nothing like it. There is mimmicking but a big aspect of the illness is impulsivity, reactivity and emotional instability, it is difficult for me to plan stuff out especially in public when it's hard enough for me to work on balancing my facial expressions and emotions to appear normal. The mimicking I do is pretty straightforward. If someone smiles i smile, if someone laughs I laugh. If someone waves at the group I'm with, i too wave at the group I'm with because the presence of mind is zilch huehuehue
My mom had bpd and it was really hard growing up with her. She was diagnosed few years back and I had to distance myself from her because I think it would left even deeper mental issues on me.
I think I would never be able to distance myself from my mom, even though she can be pretty mean at times. Her life revolves arround us, her kids, she has no friends and is clearly unhappy. I would be too afraid she would try to commit suicide, since she had suicidal thoughts a few years back
@@littlelily4 Threatening to commit suicide is another form of abuse. My daughter would threaten me often until I said "Go Ahead." That tactic would no longer work from then on!!! Save yourself before it's too late and watch every video you can find on Going No Contact.
@@sally4436 Well said.
@@littlelily4 You are NOT responsible for other people’s manipulations and this cohort will threaten suicide or make weak gestures simply to keep you towing their line. They’re manipulative as hell.
Pfft. Loose mommy dearest: Life is short and no one, regardless of their label has the right to abuse anyone ESPECIALLY THEIR OWN KIDS.
And as you’re experiencing, they do NOT get better with age.
My advice, keep running, my mother should have been taken out and shot. Make a life for yourself.
I watch these kind of videos as someone with bpd to see where I can get in fault myself and try to avoid these as much as possible. Or to teach myself how to take care of character traits that go towards that.
How do you look at your flawed character traits without triggering depression or victim mentality. I have BPD and I’m about to lose my husband and kids if I can’t figure out how to do this exact thing if you can help me at all please I need it
@@brookerogers2513 In all honesty sometimes that is really hard. Where I feel helped most was the moment when the people around me understood I have BPD and that it is a real thing that hinders me. But that I do love them so so much. Also I have a lot of proffesional help for the things that are too hard to deal with for the people who love me.
I like to think of it this way: The minor problems I deal with together with my friends, my family and anyone close to me. The bigger problems like suicidal thoughts, self harm and anything any other person should not have to handle, I get proffesional help for.
It is good you see the problems and I am sure now that you can identify them you are so much farther than a lot of other people are. Know it will get better, but you may need to start with yourself first and with the proper help. It also helps a lot if your family can support you. It can help so much that they understand what is wrong with you and that all you need is love and understanding. Leave the rest up to proffesionals and yourself. As your family is not equipped to handle that. I learned that the hard way. They are too close to you to want to see you in that way and be able to help you out. But know once you are stable relationships can grow even better
So glad to have come across such a succinct acknowledgment of the subtleties of what a partner of someone with BPD experiences from an abuse perspective. I went through abuse in my relationship with my girlfriend and completely lost my own sense of identity in the process. I only found out posthumously that she had BPD. It’s an incredibly hard condition to deal with.
Oh yes. It's real..... So is Narcissistic abuse, and covert (vulnerable) narcissistic abuse.
Thank you. It is both ways. Sometimes I could think that both PD’s are inherited and on a scale/spectrum. Both rooted in child hood trauma both often attracting one another. Why is that? But thank you for your comment. Agreed w/your thought.:)
@@doreenplischke7645 since people with PDs are abusive, and being abused can give you a PD, it's probably inherited that way
We probably shouldn't attach abuse to bpd yes there are people with bpd who abuse but I don't think it's connected to bpd itself
@askfj I have explosive anger issues and yes it is possible not to be abusive to a partner with anger problems you wanna know why? Because anger douse not always equal violence I know someone with bpd she isn't abusive she is just deathly afraid of being abandoned and she needs support sometimes I'm honestly surprised to see the stigma attached to this disorder people think people with bpd will like stab you if you try to abandon or otherwise leave them bpd douse not equal abuse nor douse npd aspd hpd or any other pd
no fucking shit
I can relate to a lot of these examples of abuse, it's horrifying what happens when the idealization phase ends and the devaluation begins. Super dangerous to be involved with someone who behaves like this, especially if you are a male victim and people have a hard time believing what you went through. My life is ruined in ways that are irreparable. I'm completely traumatized and feel like I will never be able to trust anyone again.
I swear I could've written the same exact thing. It's nightmarish and navigating the healing process is just as labyrinthine, frustrating and difficult as the abuse itself. Especially being male, even in a supposedly 'woke' environment, the abuse isn't taken seriously whatsoever. My whole life was ruined. They started the relationship with almost no friends, a severe ED, crippling social anxiety, etc. I was their therapist for hours every single day; helped them through breakdown after breakdown, whether or not it was based in reality and whether or not it was being absurdly taken out on me. (The gaslighting, putting words in my mouths, saying I did things I didn't do, the one-sided stories, the outright lies, etc. etc., I was so patient with this person.) Gradually I was able to help them through everything except how they treated me; all my friends became their friends, too, etc. Then when we finally split slowly and surely my entire social life collapsed. People started treating me differently. What was going on? Somehow, they turned everyone against me. It led to further traumas.
But how could that cute bubbly femme who's always having such a hard time :( be so rotten? No one ever took it seriously and my whole life was destroyed, and they'll never change their behavior because they're coddled to all hell. I coddled them too, because it was impossible to do anything else. C'est la vie. Good luck healing man
@@matthewpelletier4447 It's good that you experienced something like this too. I was on the same path as you, trying to get her involved with my own friends. Thankfully it didn't work. But she got me to a point where I was so nervous all the time that I stopped eating and became underweight, which landed me in a hospital. I never knew how she was going to treat me next: normal or like I was a horrible person, gaslighting me, manipulating me..
Now I am extremely cautious when it comes to people and cut some out just like that out of fear.
Same a lot here except the friends part , She treats her friends and her Sis and Mom like gold so you get gaslit to hell . How can the pretty blonde blue eyed church girl who puts on that facade do all of these things lol ? there's always city different excuses /rationalizing /justifying for the emotional outbursts /cheating/lying/future faking /manipulation / discarding they never do it on purpose etc. . Its just soul crushing to deal with .
My brother is a victim of this. She had him put in jail for a year, though she was legitimately horrified and said that she lied to the cops and didn't mean it.
She missed him and cried every day while he was locked up saying she understood what she had done and it could never happen again.
She's now saying during arguments "just shut up, I could have you locked up again if I wanted to". And doesn't understand why my brother is being weird.
I'm sorry you went through such a difficult time, but being a male victim doesn't mean your situation was worse. Female victims of DV are much more vulnerable and likely to end up murdered.
This is the first time I vehemently disagree with Dr. Grande: “the person with BPD is suffering a lot more.” Are you serious?!?! That is a grotesque dismissal of a BPDs behavior. They are not children who don’t know better. They know exactly what they’re doing.
I agree!
@Intuitivehealingwithmj well the therapist only counsels the patient with BPD. And not the victims. Plus BPD paint such a (falsely ) vicious portrayal of their victim to their therapist. Many therapists outright refuse to treat people with BPD.
@@kirstymclaren3869 Many therapists simply aren't fit to treat people with BPD, it's arguably the most self-destructive mental illness alongside NPD, but people with NPD can't be treated anyway so they are written off akin to psychopaths and sociopaths. I have to say there is a unpleasant amount of disinformation in this relatively small comment chain.
Agree
That would appear to be true sometimes, but PLEASE remember that this disorder looks very different from how it actually feels. People with BPD *don't* always "know exactly what they're doing" -- in fact, they might be dissociating or experiencing transient psychotic symptoms. There's a difference between being evil and being someone whose emotions are hijacked. It feels TERRIBLE to be inside a BPD brain. There's no glee in it. There's no delight.
I was in an abusive friendship with someone who had BPD a few years ago and your informative and objective videos on the disorder helped me get to terms with my experience. Until now I've demonised them and the disorder, because i was just 14 and that was the only way I could cope with it then.
This video helped me understand and forgive them. Thank you :)
I am so done with this. Always having to be the grown up. Always getting burned when I say no. You search for it, I can see it in your eyes. Something to releave your anger on. My stuff, my country, my friends. Preferably me. I AM NOT YOUR SANDBAG!! I keep saying. You hate me when I forget something. But you easily forgive yourself. It is always my fault. I'm always to blame. I'm tired of al the research I do to help you, to make you happy. To make sure I won't make any mistakes or trigger you. But it is getting harder and harder to be the grown up, it is getting harder to stay objectieve, calm and understanding. I'm also human, I have emotions. I wish you would give me the space to express them. Even if you doubt them.
I care about you, I wish you wouldn't forget.
This wasn't what I wanted to say...
Some though words. If you have borderline because of abuse in your past. I am sorry that happened to you. BUT IT IS NOT A FUCKING EXCUSE TO ABUSE OTHERS!!!!!!!!
I heard the whining "I can't help it I have borderline waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to fucking often. I can tell you one thing! Your borderline is not an EXCUSE for your behaviour. It's the reason. BUT IT DOESN'T FUCKING EXCUSE IT!!!
You are resposible for you own actions. Fucking own up to them, apolagize and then, if the sitiation calls for it, you explain why. Because there is a point people stop taking that as a legitimate excuse.
I can relate so much.. I tried so much and can't count how many times I had to be the bigger person, all the times I chose to be forgiving and understanding and tolerant, all the times I doubted myself and gave her the benefit of the doubt, yet she never accepted any sort of criticism and I think she's never , not once during our friendship, said the word sorry , genuinely. Except when I would confront her about something she did or explain to her that the thing she did was hurtful or not okay with me, then she would say a fake "well, sorry" and act like it was my fault, or gaslight me ,or completely invalidate me. Meanwhile she got mad at me very often over the simplest thing , and all those times she never doubted that she perhaps was wrong. I remember the day i broke up with her and explained to her that the way she treats me was hurting me too much and thats why i preferred that we separated, she denied the examples of her behavior i told her and had the guts to tell me that" I really need to learn to look at both sides, just a piece of advice". It was way too much, i couldnt believe it. The time i actually stand up for myself she pretends that she didnt do what she did and that im the bad, selfish one? I can still remember how bamboozled i felt, because I thought she just wasn't aware of her behavior, and that once i told her, she would understand and apologize but no.
Man , I feel like there's so much stuff in my heart that just wants to come out.
I hope you get out.
@@clovrr291 hey, I know this was a year ago but could you reply to this comment? How do you know if this is BPD or NPD- my best friend is exactly the same and she seemed to display narcissistic rage over me explaining I was struggling from trying to constantly give all my energy and time on her problems instead of mine. But what if this was just uncontrollable anger and she still cares?? Did you figure out the cause of your friends behaviour? I’m so confused 😭😭😭
People with bpd suffer a lot but they make their surrounding people suffer 10 times more
The person with bpd is suffering more than you! Bpd is a very painful disorder 10% commit suicide... High AF
Thank you so much for this information. I have borderline personality disorder and I realize that I can be emotionally abusive but, this video is like a wake up call for me to stop."
My sister has BPD. She has consistently wrecked every holiday , every vacation that my siblings and I have tried to put together our whole lives. She typically will choose one of us and viciously mock and attack them, or attack a waiter, or a theater manager.
It’s been such a nightmare that we have found that we don’t want to gather if she’s there.
We understand and have educated ourselves about this disorder. My husband got her disability (he’s an attorney) because she cannot hold any job…even volunteering.
Yours is the very first talk with compassion and sympathy for those of us who have had to deal with this disorder in our lives.
I want to thank you from all of us .
*_Stop the Senseless Spork Violence_* would be a delightful band name!
And the opening act would be
The Butterknives
Spork Attack is on tour, so get your tickets now ;)
@@unpluggeddogdreams also...... Unplugged Dog Dreams is simply an amazing name! God, I love that! Sorry. That just really struck me as perfect.
Lmao!!!!
@@Leadrabbit 🤣🤣🤣
You DO have a serious demeanor but it is so soothing and calming. Besides, what better way to deliver dry humour!? 😂 Your anecdotes are priceless, thank you for sharing!
Radical Angel glad I’m not the only one that sees that gleam of humour . 😂
INTJ
His quiet humour is great!!
heck yes. When she threatens to kill you , slaps you but tells you its a love tap , lies about you , threatens you , its abuse.
She hit me and told me this is sign of love.
@@akhtaruzzamanjoy8524 I hear that
@@akhtaruzzamanjoy8524 unless you literally (because sexy) asked for it, it's always abusive
@@mackereltabbie in the middle of the road, why would I ask for it (in a sexy way) lol
Yes ! They tell you they are going to kill you, with a complete flat affect on their face ! I am not the only one who was a witness.
Wow, I can relate well with the list of borderline abuse that I've been on the receiving end of over the years. You did miss a couple things however, such as trying to engage third parties to carry out the killings, going online and spending months or years repeatedly trying to destroy the lives of those they attack for no reason other some imagined rejection. Perhaps this overlaps with other Cluster B forms of abuse? And finally, the complete denial of doing any of these things... which can compound the harm done to those on the receiving end; although perhaps this comes under the standard gaslighting tool?
The smear campaign is something that narcissists do. Maybe the borderline in your life had narc traits?
@@kaedatiger possibly. Although I get tired of people trying to pass off the bad side of bpd as narcissistic. Both are just as badly behaved.
@@thenarcissistsenemy29 years of looking for revenge doesn't sound very borderline though. The bad side of BPD is the reactivity, with some narcissism in the moment in survival mode, not what you are talking about.
@@thenarcissistsenemy29 I don’t think you’re really understanding BPD very well. Remorse is a very common aspect.
@@OverOnTheWildSide So where is the acknowledgement of their abuse and the apologies and reaching out for help with it by professionals if remorse is ever recognised by them then? Surely SOME of the abuse they inflict upon others, they get some pleasure from, with NO regrets?? All of them ain't THAT self aware...
Without trying to invalidate someone's experience, being able to understand and forgive my mom for the unjustified abuse is what finally allowed that relationship to start healing. It's still hard and I have to be on top of my boundaries, but we're finally starting to listen to each other and it makes me hopeful for the future.
I will give you the name. Stalking, for 10 years. Destroying your car. Putting a restraining order on you, even though really it's projection, you have the restraining order on THEM! Breaking into your house. Hollering your name outside your house for hours while they stand outside naked! I can't even list off all of these things. My mistake for going out with the guy a couple times!
I don't care if they are "suffering"! These people should be locked up!
Jesus. I've had very similar experiences not for that long though. I have BPD and had an ex with BPD. He would send me rape threats constantly, he sent my nudes around to all his friends, he stalked me outside of work, he beat me a few times threatened to kill me and do sexual things with me dead body etc. Not to mention I was 17 and he was 26 which was a stupid idea of my part. I think male BPD is alot more violent and agressive then female BPD due to how man and women are able to express themselves emotionally.
But damn it's shitty but I can't even handle a person with BPD and I got this shit.
Really found this interesting. It’s good to hear it’s abuse and talked through it. It’s helpful to try understand why they have done this.
It’s interesting. I always see people with BPD insisting they “aren’t like that!” and making claims that it’s “only a small sensationalized percentage”, but I have never encountered someone with BPD who wasn’t “like that.” And everyone I’ve talked to who’s encountered someone with BPD was of someone “like that.”
Taking that into account, I’d also like to remind the person reading this how people with BPD like to paint themselves as victims. And encourage you to make your own conclusion.
If a man is emotionally or physically abusing a woman with BPD then she is a victim period
@@VivaLaRepartee Asking people to form their own opinions is unkind? You are delusional
I am a victim to the abuse I suffered. The person I abuse is a victim to the abuse I put them through. I also have BPD. Is my BPD an excuse to hit someone? Fuck no. I know what is right and what is wrong. I've made mistakes. I've told people who called me stupid and ugly to go kill themselves, and they never deserved that amount of hostility from me. It's not that I was a victim, it's that when they called me stupid and ugly, I wanted to hurt them the same way they hurt me. It's more about vengeance gone wrong.
I've encountered abusive people with BPD and they believe they are good, kind and highly empathic and other people are taking advantage of their kindness. I think the problem with people w/BPD is that they lack insight/selfawarness so they aren't even aware that they are being abusive/hurtful toward others. So it's not strange that they always believe that they aren't "like that" cause they probably aren't even aware that they in fact are "like that".
Megan Michaels Good for your friend for not being like that, but actually I get where Dr. Dispekful is coming from. I've witnessed abusive borderlines who claim they are kind and empathic. You can never know how a BPD behaves behind close doors. The ones that suffer the most abuse are the loved ones (family member or intimate partner) living with the BPD person, and then BPD will almost always project and claim that they are the ones being abused by their family, partners, friends ...etc.
You've helped me more with my disorder then the last 6 therapist, and 3 psychologist over the last 4 years.
I often hate how i react, and no matter what i can't control it. Even trying to bring myself back into the moment.
More needs to be said about abuse of parents from adult BPD children. Extremely damaging things are experienced especially when there is a grandchild involved. Parents are targets for all kinds of abuse and children are used as weapons. I would like to see this discussed with any helpful strategies.
I can very much relate to your post. My adult daughter with BPD has been abusive to romantic partners, friends, and family members. Between my husband and I (her parents), we are probably the only long-term relationships she has left. My husband and I, senior citizens now, are worn out. She has two children and uses them as pawns. We are hoping she will begin DBT therapy soon.
Just wondering
Don’t you think it’s the fruits of your upbringing?
My mom has no idea about her mental state which is bad. She thinks she’s normal and I’m all messed up. And I cannot talk with her and open up about all the times she hurt me deeply. Because once again - I’ll turn out the ungrateful complaining black sheep. I prefer to just withdraw any contact
Thank you for saying this ( I know it was 2 years ago) my Ex boyfriends dad left him when he was little. Not only was I abused by his BPD but his mother,grandma and sister would get it so bad too.😔
Oh it’s real,,and when ppl with borderline aspects and tendencies, if they’re unmarried or in the current relationship, it’s PARENTS and SIBLINGS that suffer their symptoms.
Don't generalise. I have BPD, am single and taking care of my mother who I live with and I don't do any of the things Dr Grande says. Not all BPD sufferers are the same.
Celldweller Fangirl ,, so true, my gosh , and I barely remember posting this,,thank you ! think I’ve grown up more, now, too or learned more since then.. :(
I was the victim of my BPD sister's abuse, until I cut her off.
@@mindpower9057 me too. 🥲
These videos make me want to go back to college for psychology.
This is interesting to watch as someone with quiet BPD. There are a lot of things I relate to in borderline relationships, such as severe lack of abandonment, instability within myself and the relationship, idealization. But most if it is internalized, and essentially I allow myself to be harmed by them and myself in the end. I do recognize times when I was manipulative and probably stressing to my partner. I know there's a lot of times I wouldn't recognize this also. I've never done any of these "extreme" things mentioned, and I've never struggled with aggression or much anger. It's all internalized towards me. I'm extremely abusive to myself at the end of the day, no matter the relationship I'm in or not in.
Just a POV into a quiet BPD brain ❤ even though it's not very quiet in here
Same. And i think that's why it took awhile to diagnose. I didn't mention my rage or self identity issues, i figured my dad had rage so I jst inherited it from him and it has nothing to do with my other symptoms of disassociation, paranoia or psychosis, etc. And I described my feelings of emptiness as boredom. Before i was getting medicated for GAD and depression. Anyway, then a therapist finally asked me why i self h and i told them i feel so much rage but I don't want to hurt anyone else so I hurt the person I hate the most, myself. I obviously don't know the lightbulb moment for them but guessing.
My mother had BPD. I can attest that borderline abuse exists. :(
My mother has it.
Ditto
Horrific childhood... I'm 53 and still in therapy
I also have BPD and I was told this quote one time that has always helped me understand what it is. It's was a rare disorder at the time so the dr told me this quote and it is "Hurt people, hurt people".
i choose not to use it only because it was told to me about my sexual abuser. he can be hurting all he wants but it doesn’t excuse assaulting a child.
It’s not like that for me at all. For me it’s more like “hurt me, hurt me”.
Probably because I have discouraged (quite) bpd
"Hurt people, hurt people." It's an explanation, not an excuse. Wouldn't hold up in the legal system. Luckily for abusers charges are rarely made & in the USA only one state deems "coercive abuse" felonious. (Some other nations in the West already do so.)
@@isaidgoddamngirl same. SH all the way
It’s a bit grim when your RUclips viewers “get you” more than your colleagues. Ban the sporks! 🤣
It's rather sad that that agency didn't recognize the Doctor's humor! 😉
I agree. How could someone sitting in a meeting not get that? Takes all kinds, I guess.
I totally know what you're getting at! But your comment also prompted another thought as it pertains to "getting it". I am not a clinician. I am a professional in a very competitive field, with excellent people skills, and advanced degrees. However, I have grown up with a BPD parent and sibling (who is my only one), and had a very low empathy/low remorse spouse. I was also in a long-term relationship with a BPD. Because I have seen a variety of these folks "in their element" or "without their mask" I feel that I have a unique, and well-informed perspective on who these disordered people are. I've been following Dr. Grande for a while and really enjoy the exchange of comments and ideas. It seems like perhaps one of the only fora that has a dedicated following of well-informed targets/victims as well as clinicians.
I've spoken with many clinicians in both professional and interpersonal contexts, and not many get to observe the Cluster Bs in a way that us non-professionals have. I've read and studied about this phenomena quite a bit. First, I want to give props to Dr. Grande, for being able to reach an audience that includes clinicians and non-clinicians alike. Second, I think that those who have been affected by these disorders as a target/victim "get-it" in a different way. We've seen the Cluster Bs in a way that clinicians will never ever see in their office or in a clinical setting. I hope this channel/forum can be a way for those who have experienced Cluster B abuse to also provide insight! There are a lot of such folk on RUclips, but their content is not clinically-informed. Dr. Grande, I encourage you to provide a platform where non-clinicians have "a voice". We get it! We've lived it! And I truly believe that our experiences can better help the clinical community manage what some would probably characterize as one of the biggest public health epidemics of our time.
Dr. did say spork was on the original list presented to him, id like to know the backstory with this. He was joking because it sounds so implausible, but when a spork is the closest thing to a sharp you have, you work with it.
thank you for being real, I mean most channels make bpd as a victim and not abuser as well.
Why is "being real" only when you present bpd's as abusive?
Also,they're a lot more likely to be victims because they would tolerate anything out of fear of abandonment.
Also ,where are those channels that "present them as victims"?
I need to look them up.
@@tamaraman6358You are not more likely to be victims than you are to be abusers lol, and I’m pretty sure you could find those channels in a few seconds
@@tamaraman6358”Being real” because he’s not glossing over the bpd abuse and sugarcoating the disorder
In high school I was in a punk-core band called “Death By Spork”
Wasn't everyone?
@@davidcherry3107 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
Great presentation, Dr. Grande. The list of "attack weapons" could be unlimited. I've heard of tire irons, heels of high-heel shoes, coat hangers, among others. I was once hit in the back with a thrown unopened can of tuna and another time by a plateful of scrambled eggs...not fun. Thanks for the continued education ~ I always get something valuable out of your videos!
I threw a full glass bottle of Coke at the ground when I was 19 and it shattered everywhere. I've also smashed an empty water glass into a sink when I was 24. I bashed my own forehead with a glass. I've thrown numerous pens across the room. I shoved a plastic chair. None of these things were ever aimed AT the person my outburst was directed at (my poor partner).
PS. The REAL epidemic right now isn't Covid. It's SPORK RAGE. 😂😂😂😂
Oh yes, I was attacked with such weird "weapons". I was hit with food items in my face, like sandwiches, bananas etc. I have also had hot beverages thrown at me, as well as a glass, a flower pot and so on. He once grabbed a kitchen knife during an argument and just walked around the apartment with it in his hand. He did also hit me with his own hands but that "only" happened two times (two times too many of course). It's very random and seem to just be what they have on hand at the time of rage. My ex partner also used spitting in my face as a type of weapon when he didn't have anything on hand. I just left this relationship 2 days ago. I feel completely broken inside but I know it's not normal to have things thrown at you for "being ungrateful" or "using the wrong tone". It's ridiculous and abusive and I wish I got out earlier. I don't know how I will heal from this.
@@MrsAliceKb I hope you are doing better now, you've had it very hard and I hope you have found some peace.
@@GrimstrokeMainr Thank you so much for this nice comment. I am doing much better, but I'm still dealing with trauma of course, and I have fallen into something of a mild depression, and I'm struggling a bit with that. Non the less, I am still in a much better place now than I was when I was in my abusive relationship. I'm happy to be out of it and be able to feel safe in my own home again.
Dr. Todd Thank you for talking about this topic. Next week I'm starting EMDR therapy for what happened with my ex-girlfriend with BPD. A rational talk about these topics gives me insight into what happened, why she did what she did, and helps me to process my side of the story.
Many thanks
I moved out of my apartment because my roommate with BPD was harassing me non-stop. She would tell me how awful and narcissistic everyone around me was, but the problem was her the whole time. She would never own up to anything she'd done. She'd play the victim when she was the one hurting people. The day I moved, she made sure she had a guy with her that was enabling her actions, and then threw my stuff out of the fridge, trashed my room, and threw actual trash at me as I walked out the door for the last time. Purely psychotic.
i had a bpd roommate too and the same thing happened to me. threw my new laptop across the apartment while I was moving out and broke many of my belongings - glad we’ve both moved on past these situations!!
I’m literally going through one of the main examples that you gave. I found out my ex partner has BPD. I was repeatedly sexually assaulted by him, he also exhibits hyper sexuality. We are in the same work field and when I told someone I don’t want to interact with him, I found out he made a false report on me saying I sexually assaulted him. Now I have to deal with all the legal shit to take him down. Ugh.
Yup. I was apparently reasonably mentally healthy, until 3 years with a borderline female. Now I have cptsd and emotionally unstable personality disorder (Which is the new name for BPD) I have actually been diagnosed too, not just saying it
Look into coda, codependents anonymous and work those steps! You've been infected, which can happen. There's a really useful channel called how I survived my borderline girlfriend. He actually discusses how the bpd will infect you with their illness and what to do now. It's SUCH helpful information. Good luck and I'm so very sorry 💔
Identity diffusion is probably quite key to all of those. Poor boundaries lead to abusive behavior inevitably.
My BPD ex wife definitely left a lasting impression on me. She experienced some pretty horrible things to leave her in that condition, and I’ve experienced my own hardships in life that left me mentally unable to confront and break the unhealthy relationship off sooner than I did.
One mistake was believing I could “fix” her if I could achieve the standard she set for me. The onset of my midlife crisis forced me to realize how consistently unhappy/frustrated/empty I was in trying (and failing) to do that for so long. Meanwhile, my needs were pretty much disregarded or outright attacked.
Attempting to then set firm boundaries was the spark that eventually burned our relationship to the ground, and, although I do empathize with her situation, I feel like I basically saved my own life by following through with the divorce.
Also, that story about the banned sporks was frickin hilarious.
I have been with two partners with BPD, both women, and they were both abusive (physically, emotionally, financially, in every way possible...) the only abusive partners I have been with. Yet, there was also some codependency on my part that I have to recognize.... but yeah I'm sorry to people with BPD, I know you all go through a lot and you all deserve love, but I can't do it and I could never date another person with BPD ever again. I'm just not strong or stable enough. I have dated some scary men before, but they were nothing compared to the two women with BPD I was with. I actually feared for my life when I was with them and I am still getting harrassed by one of them even years later.
dont have to be sorry, no one has to be with anyone, and you dont have to be strong and provide for someone who is suffering. Im not offended by people who dont want to date me because of bpd, but rather with those who see me as subhuman because of it.
Thankyou for this level headed video. We are often painted as killers and rapists. That's not me at all but I do struggle regulating my emotions.
I really don't think it's fair to say that the person with BPD that's being abusive is suffering more than the person their abusing. The person they're abusing could and probably would have their own mental health issues. BPD and NPD or any other personality disorder DOES NOT under any circumstance give a person permission to be abusive or make them unaccountable for the harm they cause. Serial killers have to face justice regardless of how they justify their actions in their own mind. A borderline abuser is an abuser. Period. All actions have consequences. Whether done intentionally or unintentionally.
Thank you!!!!!!! I agree 1000%. They're horribly toxic!!!
True, each individual is responsible for their thoughts, words and actions or lack thereof. Being a victim does not warrant becoming an abuser which is a choice at some point, though difficult to master, it can and must be done.
I agree. My oldest sister made my life growing up a living hell and I am traumatized. It was pure hell.
My little developing brain couldn't make sense of it.
Imagine those 'suffering' from BPD with siblings or their own children......
They don't make it out undamaged.
Thank you. I was very hurt when this doctor said that the borderliner is suffering more, when that is always dependent on a specific situation. Its also part of the problem I think, to debate 'who is suffering more'. Its hard enough for people who've been abused by borderliners to get recognition in the first place and then to hear that they should feel sorry for the borderliner is a really fucked up thing, as if you should be okay with the fact that they abused you. Yes the pwBPD should get help and heal from these experiences, but placing them above the abuse victim is inherently wrong in my opinion.
I think he means that they have such a distorted sense of self and low self esteem, that they are the ones that are actually suffering more than us. not that we are not still suffering, but i'm able to think about this and then have a pretty normal life with normal relationships. they are suffering with relationships, they're thoughts and everything, doesn't mean its a game of who's suffering more, but we are not suicidal or emotionally raw like they are. no excuse for abuse though.
I have to thank you for this video! I'm in the same college program with a broken up couple so I have been around this pretty frequently. The girl was fairly abusive towards her ex and blamed him for a lot of her problems and spread untrue rumors and threatened him and his now girlfriend with violence. It caused a lot of problems for me and the people around me and people have blamed her for a lot of the problems that have occurred for a while, but I'm trying really hard to understand things. I like how this video acknowledges both the pain the abusee faces and the pain the borderline person faces as well as I have been trying to show compassion for both of these parties. I'm gonna try to convey this to my friends so we might be able to have some clear understanding for this complicated situation and so that we can try to show some empathy for someone who may be struggling more than we know.
It may sound harsh but if you recognize BPD in a potential partner or even someone you are with just get out of there. Unless you have a deep history or children with them the value you derive from a relationship with them does not nearly equal the suffering that relationship will cause you. Even if you try and be supportive and get them help and do all the "right" things it will not be a good time. You will lose yourself in their struggle and become a facilitator for their happiness. Going from 2 different girlfriends with BPD in my early twenties to a girlfriend(now wife) without was a big eye opener. Maybe some people with BPD are not as bad but I do not think the risk is worth it when there are plenty of other safer options.
I count myself lucky I got out after a year and a half!!! I tried so many times to get her help, get her off drugs, get her on a budget, etc. In the end I realized she saw me as her victim. She hit me 4 times and obviously as a chick never hurt me. But she would cut herself. I noticed the same psycho look on her face when she cut herself was the same look when she hit me. I realized it was a matter of time before I get knifed myself!
still living with the impact and effects many years later; not sure now if I will ever resolve it. for a while, i thought i kind of had
Every abuser has been abused. Having BPD does not give you a free pass. Yet seems like one of the central criteria of BPD...to be entitled to be abusive because you are a "victim". 🤮
Exactly. Behind every evil there's always a wounded child. It doesn't make the evil any less real, though. Feeling more psychologically hurt (which is already a profoundly narcissistic presumption) than your victim doesn't make you the victim. As a matter of fact, I think that is the most disturbing aspect of bpd. The extreme entitlement.
Yep they expect a free pass....
@@Anna-lv8mm me and my siblings were abused throughout our lives, me and my two brothers don't have BPD/NPD. I would never abuse anyone else or put others through what I've been through. I believe that NPD/BPD is mostly influenced by genetics, because not all abused children grow up to have a personality disorder.
@@mindpower9057 Yes, I also experienced narcissistic (and possibly bpd) abuse as a child yet I do not have a personality disorder.
@@Anna-lv8mm There are so many things which are deeply disturbing about this disorder.
Identity disturbances result in the borderline sufferer ramping up abusive behavior against their partner. If they are fired from their Job, they will take it out on you in one way or another. If their children move to another state with their ex-spouse, they will take it out on you. Their emotions are your burden.
If you find yourself in a romantic relationship with someone who you suspect or know has BPD, get out as soon as you can. Otherwise you may become as sick as they are. You will be so drained that you will be unable to perform at school or work. It will change you for the worse. You will lose yourself at some point. I missed many opportunities to leave for good. Don't be like me.
Love this video. I believe my twin sister has BPD, she was in a 10 yr crazy and violent relationship in her 20s. She is now married to another man and now she is the abuser towards him. She physically attacks him every so often. She’s always yelling at him, complains about the tiniest things. Always angry, is reactive to every little thing. I also believe her BPD is mixed with covert narcissism. She has black and white thinking, scared to be alone and shuns me and my mom away then turns around and screams that we don’t care about her. She only involves herself with us is when she gets something out of it for herself or her children. I can go on and on. It’s quite sad.
That's quite amazing.. your twin sister has BPD but by the sounds of it, you don't.. what do you think caused this?
I lived with someone for a year who I am fairly sure must have had this condition. Worst year of my life. No matter that I tried so hard to help this person, he simply abused me so much I now suffer ptsd. One minute he’d be threatening suicide, next he was threatening any new friends I had to scare them off… he told all kinds of bullshit stories to scare people off as he wanted me for himself only. He threatened to kill me, I would hide all the sharp objects when he was in a dangerous mood. Nightmare is the only word for it. I was lucky to survive. Stroke of luck got me away from him. I heard years later that he died and I felt absolutely nothing. And if I’m being honest a bit of relief and happiness that he can’t continue screwing with anyone else. I know it’s a disorder but doesn’t mean I should have my whole life turned inside out and suffer a lifetime of anxiety issues. If you come across these types of people, run for the hills. It’s not worth it.
Dear Dr. Grande, Many thanks for all thorough coverage of BPD.
FINALLY, I am able to understand that my ex-partner has BPD! I was
confused and lost and could not really fathom the rage, the
switching....It was like a roller-coaster and now I got it. It was not
me. He covers like 7 of the 9 symptoms but still refused therapy
thinking he's all fine. Thanks for this enlightenment. Helps me a lot
dealing with the post trauma effects.
My ex borderline attacked me with a meat cleaver, a machete, tried to set me on fire with can of fly spray & lighter, strangled and damaged my wind pipe, destroyed all my belongings, cut up my expensive shoes ect ect.
Thank goodness there were no sporks in the house!
My ex is a double amputee, lost both feet from below knees (bi lateral). He slipped off a train whilst graffiti'n age 14. He now 46 life time drug induced psychosis aS well.
@The Mask problem*
@The Mask yes it took me time to get away from him, lots of reasons why, I mostly think the extended time was for my own vendetta/ revenge/ payback
I'm now free from a BDP NPD situationship.
I didn't look back, I skipped away & whistled a happy tune.
Thank you so much for this info. I am writing a book about our culture and the prevalence of personality disorders and you are my to go guy for my research. Thank you again. Brilliant work! We have no one in our field who has studied this as you have. Seriously. Ive dreamt you up. Thanks again.
Interesting! Care to share any of your findings?
Fascinating, as always. Having studied Behavioral Science back in my college days, I love watching your dialogs! Always most interesting! One of my favorite channels of all! You are the teacher I wish I had then and now I do! Hilarious about the Spork!
Left my borderline husband last week
ConnieLong furrball ouch
Are most borderlines female or male?
Very well structured, interesting video with good examples.
Thank you for an excellent video again Dr. Grande 😃
I loved your funny story about sporks! The throwing of drinks all over someone is a very common attack at the of cunulation of many arguments in soap opera's, especially Coronation Street!
Dr. Grande, why do those with BPD engage in smear/distortion campaigns against ex's? What is their ultimate goal in their smear campaign? To maintain contact with the target? Or just to get revenge and destroy their life?
BPD brains operate on a dog-eat-dog basis in their triggered "splitting" states. They truly believe that you are out to get them and are acting (as far as they're concerned/convinced) in preemptive [paranoid] self-defense. Whereas a narcissist smears to gain power and/or cover up their actions to protect their ego, someone with BPD *may* embody this to an extent, but ultimately you are a "villain" so they justify their actions before/during/after in accordance with this narrative. In simpler terms, it is partially about protecting their reputation but moreso an impulsive response towards their delusions that you are going to destroy/"take them down" otherwise.
Revenge
Good question .
I'm guessing maybe it's from the fear of abandonment. They feel as though you abandoned them and that hurts them! 🤷 I don't know just a guess! I had an online friend who had BPD and she had bad paranoia about me leaving and talking to other friends online and in the end she left because she'd said she rather cut ties then deal with the pain of me abandoning her! What set her off was me saying that I needed to make some boundaries and need time to myself. I sometimes wonder how she's doing and hope she got therapy. I know a part of her wanted to get better as she would constantly ask for advice but she never acted on any I gave her. I won't lie that the friendship took it's tole on me despite being an online friend. I have C-PTSD, Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder to deal with. It's true that you can't force someone to get help if they don't completely want it! ☹️
Between revenge, fear and paranoia Idk how to describe it, but its done to get the people give the level of attention they used to give earlier
Thanks for this video Dr. Grande! Most of your jokes do fly over my head since you're serious...but I think it makes your humor funnier.
A video on non-mentally ill abusive individuals would be interesting!
Oh - I love the humour of deadpan snarkers! [Generally speaking - it's not always that cute if _you're_ the one at whom it's aimed and it isn't in good faith, as it were...]
Is there such a thing as non-ill abusers? Abuse isn't a healthy behavior.
Jane Nowak That is actually what Im wondering. Ive read things along the lines of "just because they're abusive doesn't mean they're mentally ill," but that doesn't sit right for me for the reason you just stated. So I was hoping Dr. Grande would clarify if thats possible and if so what's the difference ya know.
@@anis9166 NOW I see it! Your humor flew right over my head, and I have the same dry sense of humor! Your comment really was very funny and WOULD make a GREAT topic! I guess I missed it because this video was an emotionally charged one for me.
Thank you for your video, your a breath of fresh air stating the facts surrounding bpd with out the stigma, anger, and negativity.
Hey Dr grande, I love when you inject humor into your clinical pearls. The spork story 😂😂