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Battery Prices Keep Plummeting - The Road to Affordable EVs
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Episode 416: Francie deep dives into the world of batteries. What kind of battery prices do we need to see to get affordable electric cars? What is the status of the battery market?
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#lfp #battery #prices
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](/img/1.gif)
You’re just crankin’ out the videos Francie. Keep up the hard work. Thanks for the content.
This podcast was so packed full of information I had to listen to it twice.
Totally agree I’ll be super annoyed if tariffs hit LFP batteries since I haven’t bought a battery backup but it would definitely be that configuration
Hi Francie, you asked for an opinion. I'm hoping that batter chemistries will continue to evolve towards cheaper, easier, and less ethically fraught compositions. I looking forward to manufacturing processes evolving to make batteries both cheaper and easier to maintain/replace. Lastly, I'm hopeful that recycling will close the loop and also contribute to making batteries cheaper and better for our environment.
Love the podcast.
Hi Francie great content really like your content - I do have a bit of a nit - when you say something cannot be under valued it literally means no matter how little you say it’s worth it’s not low enough - I don’t think that’s what you meant -I find lots of value
Glad you defined kw-hrs and kw.
Nice episode. If CATL and BYD (and others) can mass produce their new high energy density batteries, I’d imagine cost per kWh would drastically decrease in next 2-3 yrs
Any new battery chemistry will take demand from the lithium market. Even if they don't have the energy density to work for EVs if they can be used in grid storage that's more lithium available for cars.
LFP actually requires more lithium than NMC per kW-h. And sodium is still a ways off from taking over grid storage.
Power x Time = Energy is sooo intuitive in EV, and it causes confusion for many people.
Joules and Calories also describes energy, but nobody gets any idea of 64,531 kcal battery on a car.
Like with food, fuel, other commodities, I think a big part of the cost of these cars comes from exec bonuses.
Here in Slovenia first tariffs on Chinese cars from EU already notice Tesla model 3 1500 EUR more expensive
Yo F…love your stuff
Francie, where is the battery recycling video posted?
Are you still in Colorado?
Non EV owners scream about what about replacing that big battery?
With trained technicians and batteries being recycled that is causing the price to replace those batteries to be much cheaper.
I know a place in California and Pennsylvania handling used Lithium batteries. One has replacement packs for my Fiat 500e and the other has gently used cells.
My car has only 25k miles on it, but I only drive 5k a year. Will I need a replacement in 15 years?
It depends on what car you have, how big the battery is, how the battery has been charged and how the car has been driven.
My Leaf is 10 years old with a 24 KW battery and has been driven over 130,000 miles. The battery is still good. I rarely drive more than 50 miles a day.
A newer vehicle with a much larger battery could last up to 20 years or more, before the battery becomes totally worthless.
Cheers Francie
Tesla Quarterly Reactions - Rebellionaire Rewind
Rebellionaire
Evening love
kW is a measurement of power, not energy
Watts new?
Kilowatt is power an energy x1000. (1000) volts x amps
The producer credit as part of the IRA is $55/kwh. If that continues through the next presidential term we should have ” free” batteries in the next few years
Fun intro wooosh
I am bike curious
So $136 per KWH is enough to make EVs cheaper than ICE?
7:13 I would strongly disagree with that. ICE/HEV vehicles comfortable enough for 4 adults start with a price under 20k€, but compared to EVs they can all travel 600km(~370 miles; 4.8-5 hours of driving ) on the highway without stopping. So the potential user experience is on a different level to EV, which are barely below €22k this year. I don't see any affordable EV capable of that, even in the near future. This is certainly not an everyday scenario, but try explaining to a family with kids that a 13 hour drive to their holiday destination in the EV is better for them than 11 hours in ICE car. Without some major advancement like the long promised solid state batteries, I'm not optimistic because as seen in the premium segment where EVs are often even better in drivability, the majority still prefer the ICE/HEV/PHEV for the same price.
Anyway, stationary installations are not affected as much because they have the advantage of not being sensitive to the energy density of the cell, so they can use the more exotic chemistry of sodium ion( Natron Energy ) or redox cells( Invinity Energy Systems ).
I don’t think that EVs will get beyond 20% in US if they don’t find a way to develop economical Solid State batteries that get at least 450 miles range - 500-700 miles range is preferable for trucks.
US is probably a special case, but most people don't like to sit so many hours belted in a car. I have done those retarded trips, takes me days to recover. But done several days long road trips across Europe in my EVs, never been totally exhausted and trashed. Took a extra couple of hours but big big difference in wellbeing and stress. And with Tesla I have slept with in it with camp mode on real memory foam.
@@Harrythehun It's doable if someone wants to manage it, but Tesla is not in the affordable vehicle spectrum. Many people have a mortgage, so they think more than twice about spending over €40,000 on a car. In many cases, they come to the conclusion that they don't want to.
If you have kids in the car, you, your spouse and the kids are going to be stopping for food, restroom and rest breaks quite frequently. if you combine these stops with charging, via DCFCs, then the difference in travel time, between ICE and EVs is minimized and may disappear completely.
@@dmunro9076 In theory, yes, but you are probably not familiar with the situation that exists every summer in Europe. When families pack up and drive from central Europe to the Adriatic or Ligurian coast and they want to make it in half a day because they've already paid for their hotel and don't want to lose a minute. This is not a made-up scenario, but the real story of hundreds of thousands of families. Slovenians could tell you about it, how their highways from time to time turn into a big parking lot of these travellers. DC chargers are still not on every 25-30 km of highway and some of these places have no restrooms. Also these relatively affordable EVs under €30k are happy to do 180-200km on the highway for a 10-80% charge cycle, so you'd have to make 4-5 at least 30min stops compared to 2-3 stops of 10-15 minutes for a snack/wc with ICE vehicles. My point isn't that it can't be done, it's that many of these people won't find it advantageous to spend more hours on the road, so they won't want to switch to EV anytime soon because it means spending more money for less practicality.
KW = power, KWH = energy
Again(x 10 )……. Ever changing improving battery chemistry , reliability, will be more affordable for th next 6 years
What’s the latest shocking information?
I won’t consider an LFP battery in my EV if made in China.
For political reasons, fine. But from a technological and quality stand point, made in China batteries are the best.
@@antoinepageau8336 Correct.
If you go into Walmart, you'll find that 90% of the products there are made in China, are of decent quality and are for sale at a reasonable price to Americans. If the US imposed tariffs on the goods in Walmart as they are doing two electric cars. Inflation would be off the wall and they'd have a revolt on their hands. Let's do the right thing for consumers and how the Chinese build lfp battery factories here in the US, along with their cutting edge Auto factories. The price of EVS would be cut in half and everyday people would be able to afford them.
First!!!
Sandy Munro's tear down of the Cybertruck confirmed that the 4680 battery's anode and cathode are both dry. This will reduce the battery line by 30% and get rid of toxic chemicals, and this means they will be significantly cheaper to make. And he's also confirmed that the cobalt content in the cathode has been significantly reduced which means a further reduction in cost. Reducing cobalt might reduce energy density, but Munro has also said that the anode has silicon particles which will increase energy density..
They are not really cheaper to make especially not if you compare them to LFP batteries which are already way more capable than the 4680 cells. One big advantage of non-LFP batteries is the energy density. This is significant for sub-compact/compact EVs and also for sports cars but not so much for mid-size EVs like the Model 3 and Model Y and not for semi trucks. The main reason why Tesla continues with the 4680 cells is to reduce dependency from suppliers and to establish a battery production in the US for political/tax reasons, not the price.
@@Aztasu I guess you know more than Sandy Munro??? ...If you reduce the production line by 1/3rd and get rid of most of the hazardous chemicals, and also get rid of most of the cobalt, which is what LFP batteries do, then you have a much much cheaper battery.... Tesla is already saying their 4680s are cheaper than any battery they can buy anywhere else and they're not even at scale yet.
Year over year sales of EVs has stagnated, so of course the battery prices are down. The price would have been up if EV sales were up. It's just as simple as that.
We sold more EVs this year than any other year previously That's not stagnation. What you're hearing is automakers didn't meet their budget and so they're saying they didn't sell as many electric cars as they thought they would. That's just bad accounting, turned into fake news
Without your "spring roll" your views are low . Mark my words
They will continue to fall.