@@GuyKesTV Agree great format! Also really enjoyed the 5010 Druid direct comparison. Riding a Banshee Paradox (hardtail) as my light trail bike, otherwise I'd be tempted with the Top Fuel now :D
Great review on two bikes I’m personally trying to split. Can you let us know how changing the cockpit on the trek goes. Having ridden it briefly (before your review) I agree that integrated bar is super stiff and low. After a previous wrist injury I was looking to changes the bars too; interesting to hear it wasn’t just the injury, as you both feel the same. After your review I’m likely to get the 9.8 trek and to wheels, seatpost (reverb axs) and cockpit. Fun times! Keep up the great reviews, love the channel.
I had the stock 2022 low bar and also very stiff setup like his bar. I moved to a OneUp 35 rise bar and it made the front much more comfortable for both hands and neck, gave me a better fit and it felt more centered on the bike at least for my built.
Have a 2022 Top Fuel 9.8 I've ridden for nearly 3 seasons now, sitting in my bike stable with a Yeti Arc and Specialzied StumpJumper Evo. Love the variety of bikes, and feel fortuante to have them. But I'm actually planning to sell the Top Fuel and get the Epic Evo 8 after demo riding one a few weeks ago. The EE8 is a faster, snappier bike, as your video points out, but I most appreciate the 75 degree seat angle and cock pit feel of the EE8. On the Top Fuel I have my saddle slid all the way back, as the 76.6 STA just has you perched forward. And the stack height is quite low on the Top Fuel. Both of these are great for climbing, but feel out of balance descending, like you are going OTB feeling. Pedalling wise I also feel the too-forward seating position is harder on my knee caps. I noticed when climbing on the EE8 I would scoot forward a bit on steeper climbs, which feels natural and normal to do, but does require a bit more active rider position. But pointing the EE8 down hill, it feels super stable and capable, and so similar to the StumpJumper. The only negative to the EE8 is the Large frame comes with 175 cranks, and I saw a lot of pedal strikes. I plan to put 165 cranks on it, set the rear in the high position, and will bump the 130mm air spring up to 140mm. That will make it just right, I feel. But both are great bikes, apprecaite your video too!
One of my bikes is a 130/140 Stumpy. Personally, I think putting a 140 mm fork on the Epic 8 is too much. The rear shock will get overwhelmed and is already on the stiff side by the default tuning. The HTA will get even slacker with a 140 mm fork at around 74.5°, even with the saddle all the way up front. It will not be great for climbing this way I would honestly pick up a Stumpy on Sale for 1/3 the price with 76 HTH and 66 STA 😊
@ I have a 140mm fork on my Yeti Arc hard tail. That rear end never gets overwhelmed. :-) One thing to note is the EE8 comes shipped with the rear in the low position. Putting it in the high changes the angles by about a 1/2 degree. Adding 10mm on the fork stroke also changes the angles about a 1/2 degree in the opposite direction. So, effectively the bikes geometry is maintained, but simply with a higher BB. I did this with my Top Fuel, where I installed a 130 fork and set the rear link in the high setting, measuring the angles and BB height as I went to see how it was impacted in real life.
I personally own an epic 8 and think the 120mm fork is fine for a lot of things, but what I feel is always holding these kinds of bikes back are the shocks. They are just underbuilt (to keep weights down, yes), start leaking quite fast and overheat/choke quite easily. It happens mostly on trails these bikes were not built to ride down, but it's still a bummer since they are theoretically super capable.
Always love your tests Guy! I have the 23 Epic EVO Pro and am torn on it's handling. It seems to wash out on turns a lot and does not feel planted on the trail. I can't ascertain whether or not it is the Ground Control tires or the carbon rims being so stiff or both. I was just wondering what you thought of the carbon wheels on the Specialized. I'm not a general fan of carbon wheels for mtn. bikes and prefer aluminum for ride quality. Oh, love the pup running through the woods with you guys!
Thanks mate. What pressures are you running in the tires? Those Spesh rims are stiff but they're generally not so bad they skate around like DT / old ENVE can. A more damped wheel or tire could help a bit but there's definitely a limit to how planted a 1765g frame can actually feel planted on the trail and that gen of Epic Evo is a proper live wire
I felt a huge difference going from the stock 2022 setup which is also low and stiff to a 35 rise OneUp bar. Much more control and made it easier to sit in middle of the bike. Gen 4 should be built up later this week.
@ my experience too. I think that Bontrager setup is miss especially now they have made the frame more compliant a stiff low par seems even more out of place.
If you want to spend half the price you could always go with a Giant Trance 29 1 (Alum), it's only 1kg more than its carbon model. Got mine to just under 13kg with 27mm ID carbon wheels (w/Barzo/Mezcal trail casing).
Great video, love your content and discussion on the ride format. Ok so I get this is a hard question to answer but if you had £1500-£2500, lived in the Peaks (long rides 40-70k as I quite enjoy climbs/jacobs ladder etc),plus bi-weekly visits to Bike Parks, nothing crazy mainly reds would you go down-country (I.e more basic model of the Epic or Lux Trail etc) or Trail (Bossnut, T8, Etc). Male 5ft 6, 65kg. Really appreciate and value any opinions. Currently ride an old Bizango so I’m used to be rattled around but want something a bit more suited to the terrain now I’m mid 40s.
@@creativechimp03 get yourself a previous generation Epic Evo while there are still some being sold cheap. It’ll be about 3kg lighter than a Bossnut so Jacob’s will still be enjoyable. www.certini.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/2023-specialized-epic-evo-mountain-bike--satin-harvest-goldblack__92622?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=94823-7004&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADMpfB9ju6eBuWF9JUf4FWF16-D2L
Owning both a 120/120 Spark RC and a 2022 Top Fuel, I can totally aggree on every assessment about the beefed up xc vs short travel trail topic here. Even the technical climbing bit, as in my experience the Spark’s rear end comes up easier on large step-ups. I always thought that’s because the significant (above 100% vs 80% on the Scott) anti squat on the Trek which hinders suspension sensitivity under crux power moves. For these, you need a suspension with less chain influence. This is the price you pay for a both very efficient and amazingly damped suspension on the Trek.
Thank you indeed for your feedback. I'm also an owner of the Scott spark rc version, but planning to sell it in order to buy the Scott spark 900 trail version of it. I guess I'm staying with scott 😊
No we'd sure the tires were running the same PSI. There'll be a bit of a difference in carcass deformation etc but really I think most of it comes from twist/flex in the chassis. The Epic is about 500g lighter and running flex stays so you can feel it 'dodge the bullet' a little bit through the pedals whereas you just feel the full force on the Trek
Hi Guy, Thank you for the very detailed review. How would you compare those bikes to a tallboy in terms of decending capability (i assum both climb better than a tallboy)
Hi Guy. I have whyte s-120 and love the bike for everything from XC/Trail and even some tech enduro stuff with right wheelset tyre/combo, but as always thinking about next best thing. Would any of those 2 here be great successor to Whyte. They both are very similar if you compare the specs, so will it be worth the upgrade to one of this?
They're 100% Speedcraft with the photochromic lens. Use them for 90% of my riding as they're properly clear not still dark in their most 'see through' phase. Proving really tough too as I normally destroy glasses very quick
Will you fork steerer tube have been cut too short for a better stack height? My top fuel has a 180mm tube from the crown, running 3x10mm spacers under the stem.
Great to hear, I'm planning on trying that out on 22 9.8 TF. I was worried about breaking my frame and had only read about people running it with 52.5mm stroke. Do you have to run it only in the high setting for frame clearance on the seat tube? Seems on the Fox DPS shocks the screw in travel adjust spacers only come on the 2024 and newer models, need to cut the plastic o ring spacers to remove them on the older ones.
@joellekkas7667 I run it in the high to be safe. And I cut the spacer out on mine. I have taken it up the lift to my local black trails. And bottomed it out without any problems
I really need to get on the current gen of Giant bikes. The OG Giant Anthem and then the 29ers were some of my favourite all time bikes. I think I pissed them off when I was too honest with a Reign review though
@@GuyKesTV yeah if it was the old reign that was more of an over-shocked, over-forked trance x from what I could tell. the new one is definitely a legit enduro rig with multiple EDR wins on it
@@brucehumphries6889 www.northwave.com/en/bike/shoes/mtb/xc/extreme-xc-2-#/65-taglia-45/156-color-dark_grey bit narrow like most Italian shoes but very stiff, decent tread with stud holes AND the dials are the best I’ve used. Proper release lever rather than a glitchy pull/reverse turn fight like most dials
This might be reductive but I'm getting to think that there are only two types of Trailbikes to buy. The first would be the XC/Downcountry bike with 120/120mm travel, single pivot flex stay suspension, and about a 66* HTA. The Epic, Spur, and Scalpel would be some good examples. The second would be the All-Mountain bike with 150/160 travel and about 64.5* HTA. The Ripmo, Sentinal, and Hightower would be some good examples. I just thinking that any of the Trailbikes that fall between 120/120mm and 150/160mm travel should be avoided. Either go all in with the light-weight fast-rolling Downcountry bike. Or, go all in on the big bump absorbing, capable descending All-Mountain bike. In my opinion, the Top Fuel should come with and be designed for a 120mm fork. And, I would just buy the Epic (not Evo) instead of the Epic Evo.
I strongly disagree. I own a 150/160 Scott Genius, the top-level Scott Spark RC 120/120 at 10.2 kg, and a Specialized Stumpjumper 130/140 at 12.5 kg. The Stumpy is, hands down, my overall favorite do-it-all bike in 90% of cases, even here in the Swiss Mountains. It is comfortable like a trail bike, climbs like a dream, brings you down any mountain comfortably, and can be raced on the flats/XC courses. If I change the tires to Renegades, I have something of a comfortable, fun "gravel bike" if I take it with me on holidays to explore gravel routes around lakes. Two Rekons for XC, Wicked Wills/Renegades for Trail, and Butcher T9 for Trail/Enduro. While the Scott Spark RC is the best bike I've ever owned in 42 years, the Stumpy is the most versatile. My brother owns the SCOTT Spark RC 900 Ultimate TR Bike with 120/130. So I have some experience with that too. Cheers from Switzerland
While that’s a perfectly reasonable thinking, I think many of us prefer exactly the inbetween - jack of all trades category bikes that are versatile enough to ride just about everything with a reasonable speed. I personally want the best compromise of fast climbing, comfort and downhill capability on my bike, and I find that precisely in the 120-130mm category. This obviously depends on the local terrain too.
I'd agree with this. Had a 140/120 trailbike and after I've tried a XC bike and an Allmountain/Enduro-ish bike I came to the same conclusion. Of course it totally depends on the type of riding you do but for me the trailbike neither does feel fast like an XC nor capable as a 160 bike (duh). I feel like a good 120/120 XC bike can do the same as a trailbike while being fast, and if you're doing more descending just jump directly to the longer travel bikes.
For me neither, they are both good bikes, but Epically over priced (pun intended). By comparison you can get the Canyon Lux Trail CFR with XTR and Fox Factory for £6500 (full price). Across the range they are both ~£1000 over priced.
@@Barryens good pun but you’ve got to remember that a lot of that £1000+ pays for the shops that sell them and that can do other cool shit for you too. Plus both Trek and Spesh do a lot of good advocacy work for MTB
@GuyKesTV All good points, but on a £3k bike it is a 30% premium, which is untenable. The annoying thing is they can be competitive, the Roscoe and Chisel FS are only 5 to 10% more than Canyon.
Great format. More of these please and useful to have Ryan's comments too
@@markdawson9944 thanks. Ryan’s been my test wingman for years so he’s got some great insights
@@GuyKesTV Agree great format! Also really enjoyed the 5010 Druid direct comparison.
Riding a Banshee Paradox (hardtail) as my light trail bike, otherwise I'd be tempted with the Top Fuel now :D
PS: Trek has to reduce their frameset prices. Way up there, more expensive then Santa Cruz or Yeti.
Thanks, I'm getting a 2022 top fuel 9.7 next week. Already have a 2020 spark rc team issue. Cant wait to give it a blast.
@@paulkeavney7657 previous gen TF are an amazing bargain ATMO. But then again so are previous gen Epic Evo
The little doggy is flying round.
@@tonybennett3904 Jay’s ace, getting to be a proper trail dog now
I'm curious to see the Top Fuel in 130/140 travel configuration
@@flybyguy1450 yep, excited to try that set up too
Great review on two bikes I’m personally trying to split.
Can you let us know how changing the cockpit on the trek goes. Having ridden it briefly (before your review) I agree that integrated bar is super stiff and low. After a previous wrist injury I was looking to changes the bars too; interesting to hear it wasn’t just the injury, as you both feel the same.
After your review I’m likely to get the 9.8 trek and to wheels, seatpost (reverb axs) and cockpit.
Fun times!
Keep up the great reviews, love the channel.
I had the stock 2022 low bar and also very stiff setup like his bar. I moved to a OneUp 35 rise bar and it made the front much more comfortable for both hands and neck, gave me a better fit and it felt more centered on the bike at least for my built.
@ thinking I might go for the race face era 40mm rise. I'll let us know how that goes.
@@andrewoconnor2720 that is a sweet looking bar too and why not 40mm!
good comparison overall like the look of the trek overall
That dog would drive me nuts on the trail.
Hello guy love your videos I own the Santa Cruz blur cc tr and it’s amazing just one question have you tried flight attendant
@@SuperJonny76 I have mate, and on a Blur too: ruclips.net/video/VFtfrveuo90/видео.htmlsi=2ECwL7lhV1GOE-OS
I love the Blur and only got the Epic EVO because of the sale price.
Have a 2022 Top Fuel 9.8 I've ridden for nearly 3 seasons now, sitting in my bike stable with a Yeti Arc and Specialzied StumpJumper Evo. Love the variety of bikes, and feel fortuante to have them. But I'm actually planning to sell the Top Fuel and get the Epic Evo 8 after demo riding one a few weeks ago. The EE8 is a faster, snappier bike, as your video points out, but I most appreciate the 75 degree seat angle and cock pit feel of the EE8. On the Top Fuel I have my saddle slid all the way back, as the 76.6 STA just has you perched forward. And the stack height is quite low on the Top Fuel. Both of these are great for climbing, but feel out of balance descending, like you are going OTB feeling. Pedalling wise I also feel the too-forward seating position is harder on my knee caps. I noticed when climbing on the EE8 I would scoot forward a bit on steeper climbs, which feels natural and normal to do, but does require a bit more active rider position. But pointing the EE8 down hill, it feels super stable and capable, and so similar to the StumpJumper. The only negative to the EE8 is the Large frame comes with 175 cranks, and I saw a lot of pedal strikes. I plan to put 165 cranks on it, set the rear in the high position, and will bump the 130mm air spring up to 140mm. That will make it just right, I feel. But both are great bikes, apprecaite your video too!
One of my bikes is a 130/140 Stumpy. Personally, I think putting a 140 mm fork on the Epic 8 is too much. The rear shock will get overwhelmed and is already on the stiff side by the default tuning.
The HTA will get even slacker with a 140 mm fork at around 74.5°, even with the saddle all the way up front. It will not be great for climbing this way
I would honestly pick up a Stumpy on Sale for 1/3 the price with 76 HTH and 66 STA 😊
@ I have a 140mm fork on my Yeti Arc hard tail. That rear end never gets overwhelmed. :-) One thing to note is the EE8 comes shipped with the rear in the low position. Putting it in the high changes the angles by about a 1/2 degree. Adding 10mm on the fork stroke also changes the angles about a 1/2 degree in the opposite direction. So, effectively the bikes geometry is maintained, but simply with a higher BB. I did this with my Top Fuel, where I installed a 130 fork and set the rear link in the high setting, measuring the angles and BB height as I went to see how it was impacted in real life.
I personally own an epic 8 and think the 120mm fork is fine for a lot of things, but what I feel is always holding these kinds of bikes back are the shocks. They are just underbuilt (to keep weights down, yes), start leaking quite fast and overheat/choke quite easily. It happens mostly on trails these bikes were not built to ride down, but it's still a bummer since they are theoretically super capable.
Always love your tests Guy! I have the 23 Epic EVO Pro and am torn on it's handling. It seems to wash out on turns a lot and does not feel planted on the trail. I can't ascertain whether or not it is the Ground Control tires or the carbon rims being so stiff or both. I was just wondering what you thought of the carbon wheels on the Specialized. I'm not a general fan of carbon wheels for mtn. bikes and prefer aluminum for ride quality. Oh, love the pup running through the woods with you guys!
Thanks mate. What pressures are you running in the tires? Those Spesh rims are stiff but they're generally not so bad they skate around like DT / old ENVE can. A more damped wheel or tire could help a bit but there's definitely a limit to how planted a 1765g frame can actually feel planted on the trail and that gen of Epic Evo is a proper live wire
I have the same. Have an xr4 in front and it's perfect. Or try purgatory or forekaster. I also have 130 mm fox performance 34 elite in front
I felt a huge difference going from the stock 2022 setup which is also low and stiff to a 35 rise OneUp bar. Much more control and made it easier to sit in middle of the bike. Gen 4 should be built up later this week.
Nice. I fitted a 38mm rise PNW bar straight after shooting this and it’s feeling a lot more playful now
@ my experience too. I think that Bontrager setup is miss especially now they have made the frame more compliant a stiff low par seems even more out of place.
@ but it’s fashionable 🙄
If you want to spend half the price you could always go with a Giant Trance 29 1 (Alum), it's only 1kg more than its carbon model. Got mine to just under 13kg with 27mm ID carbon wheels (w/Barzo/Mezcal trail casing).
@@chrisbraun72 nice. Not tested a Giant in ages. Need to sort that out
Great video, love your content and discussion on the ride format. Ok so I get this is a hard question to answer but if you had £1500-£2500, lived in the Peaks (long rides 40-70k as I quite enjoy climbs/jacobs ladder etc),plus bi-weekly visits to Bike Parks, nothing crazy mainly reds would you go down-country (I.e more basic model of the Epic or Lux Trail etc) or Trail (Bossnut, T8, Etc). Male 5ft 6, 65kg. Really appreciate and value any opinions. Currently ride an old Bizango so I’m used to be rattled around but want something a bit more suited to the terrain now I’m mid 40s.
@@creativechimp03 get yourself a
previous generation Epic Evo while there are still some being sold cheap. It’ll be about 3kg lighter than a Bossnut so Jacob’s will still be enjoyable. www.certini.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/2023-specialized-epic-evo-mountain-bike--satin-harvest-goldblack__92622?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=94823-7004&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADMpfB9ju6eBuWF9JUf4FWF16-D2L
Owning both a 120/120 Spark RC and a 2022 Top Fuel, I can totally aggree on every assessment about the beefed up xc vs short travel trail topic here. Even the technical climbing bit, as in my experience the Spark’s rear end comes up easier on large step-ups. I always thought that’s because the significant (above 100% vs 80% on the Scott) anti squat on the Trek which hinders suspension sensitivity under crux power moves. For these, you need a suspension with less chain influence. This is the price you pay for a both very efficient and amazingly damped suspension on the Trek.
@@ferencvarju651 awesome feedback as always mate, thanks
Thank you indeed for your feedback. I'm also an owner of the Scott spark rc version, but planning to sell it in order to buy the Scott spark 900 trail version of it. I guess I'm staying with scott 😊
@ have you watched this?
@ m.ruclips.net/video/GyIJmirL0sI/видео.html
@GuyKesTV , Yes sir, I did, but I forgot about it. Definitely will watch it again. Cheers:)
I'm wondering if the specialized is more aired down on the tire psi on those two punchy spurts that would definitely make the difference there.
No we'd sure the tires were running the same PSI. There'll be a bit of a difference in carcass deformation etc but really I think most of it comes from twist/flex in the chassis. The Epic is about 500g lighter and running flex stays so you can feel it 'dodge the bullet' a little bit through the pedals whereas you just feel the full force on the Trek
Hi Guy, Thank you for the very detailed review. How would you compare those bikes to a tallboy in terms of decending capability (i assum both climb better than a tallboy)
Hi Guy. I have whyte s-120 and love the bike for everything from XC/Trail and even some tech enduro stuff with right wheelset tyre/combo, but as always thinking about next best thing. Would any of those 2 here be great successor to Whyte. They both are very similar if you compare the specs, so will it be worth the upgrade to one of this?
What glasses are you wearing Guy? Great comparison. 👍
They're 100% Speedcraft with the photochromic lens. Use them for 90% of my riding as they're properly clear not still dark in their most 'see through' phase. Proving really tough too as I normally destroy glasses very quick
@@GuyKesTV Thanks Guy. Ordered a pair. 👍
Hi, how about pedal strikes between these bikes?
Will you fork steerer tube have been cut too short for a better stack height? My top fuel has a 180mm tube from the crown, running 3x10mm spacers under the stem.
I have the 2022 top fuel with a 55mm stoke shock that gives me 130mm travel. And a 140mm fork. You don't need the new bike to do that
Great to hear, I'm planning on trying that out on 22 9.8 TF. I was worried about breaking my frame and had only read about people running it with 52.5mm stroke. Do you have to run it only in the high setting for frame clearance on the seat tube? Seems on the Fox DPS shocks the screw in travel adjust spacers only come on the 2024 and newer models, need to cut the plastic o ring spacers to remove them on the older ones.
@joellekkas7667 I run it in the high to be safe. And I cut the spacer out on mine. I have taken it up the lift to my local black trails. And bottomed it out without any problems
@@parkinkevin Awesome thanks for the info!
@@joellekkas7667 No problem 👍
I have a 2023 Giant Trance Advanced (120/130 with that blessed manitou) and it sounds like the new Trek is basically a carbon copy of that bike.
I really need to get on the current gen of Giant bikes. The OG Giant Anthem and then the 29ers were some of my favourite all time bikes. I think I pissed them off when I was too honest with a Reign review though
@@GuyKesTV yeah if it was the old reign that was more of an over-shocked, over-forked trance x from what I could tell. the new one is definitely a legit enduro rig with multiple EDR wins on it
Specialized for me ...Saw A Fuel brake at the BB once on a trail...Once bitten etc etc..Ha!!
What Northwave shoes are those?
@@brucehumphries6889 www.northwave.com/en/bike/shoes/mtb/xc/extreme-xc-2-#/65-taglia-45/156-color-dark_grey bit narrow like most Italian shoes but very stiff, decent tread with stud holes AND the dials are the best I’ve used. Proper release lever rather than a glitchy pull/reverse turn fight like most dials
How many miles does the dog last on the trails with you?
@@schlinkodonkofink Jay is Ryan’s dog so I’ll ask but he’s good for at least an hour and he loves it
This might be reductive but I'm getting to think that there are only two types of Trailbikes to buy. The first would be the XC/Downcountry bike with 120/120mm travel, single pivot flex stay suspension, and about a 66* HTA. The Epic, Spur, and Scalpel would be some good examples. The second would be the All-Mountain bike with 150/160 travel and about 64.5* HTA. The Ripmo, Sentinal, and Hightower would be some good examples. I just thinking that any of the Trailbikes that fall between 120/120mm and 150/160mm travel should be avoided. Either go all in with the light-weight fast-rolling Downcountry bike. Or, go all in on the big bump absorbing, capable descending All-Mountain bike. In my opinion, the Top Fuel should come with and be designed for a 120mm fork. And, I would just buy the Epic (not Evo) instead of the Epic Evo.
Previous gen stumpy 140/130 with a lightweight wheelset around 1200-1300 grams would do it all.
Strong disagree. ~130 rear and ~140 front is such a powerhouse combo.
I strongly disagree. I own a 150/160 Scott Genius, the top-level Scott Spark RC 120/120 at 10.2 kg, and a Specialized Stumpjumper 130/140 at 12.5 kg.
The Stumpy is, hands down, my overall favorite do-it-all bike in 90% of cases, even here in the Swiss Mountains. It is comfortable like a trail bike, climbs like a dream, brings you down any mountain comfortably, and can be raced on the flats/XC courses.
If I change the tires to Renegades, I have something of a comfortable, fun "gravel bike" if I take it with me on holidays to explore gravel routes around lakes.
Two Rekons for XC, Wicked Wills/Renegades for Trail, and Butcher T9 for Trail/Enduro.
While the Scott Spark RC is the best bike I've ever owned in 42 years, the Stumpy is the most versatile.
My brother owns the SCOTT Spark RC 900 Ultimate TR Bike with 120/130. So I have some experience with that too.
Cheers from Switzerland
While that’s a perfectly reasonable thinking, I think many of us prefer exactly the inbetween - jack of all trades category bikes that are versatile enough to ride just about everything with a reasonable speed. I personally want the best compromise of fast climbing, comfort and downhill capability on my bike, and I find that precisely in the 120-130mm category. This obviously depends on the local terrain too.
I'd agree with this. Had a 140/120 trailbike and after I've tried a XC bike and an Allmountain/Enduro-ish bike I came to the same conclusion. Of course it totally depends on the type of riding you do but for me the trailbike neither does feel fast like an XC nor capable as a 160 bike (duh). I feel like a good 120/120 XC bike can do the same as a trailbike while being fast, and if you're doing more descending just jump directly to the longer travel bikes.
130 mm out front is a gravel bike!
For me neither, they are both good bikes, but Epically over priced (pun intended). By comparison you can get the Canyon Lux Trail CFR with XTR and Fox Factory for £6500 (full price). Across the range they are both ~£1000 over priced.
@@Barryens good pun but you’ve got to remember that a lot of that £1000+ pays for the shops that sell them and that can do other cool shit for you too. Plus both Trek and Spesh do a lot of good advocacy work for MTB
@GuyKesTV All good points, but on a £3k bike it is a 30% premium, which is untenable. The annoying thing is they can be competitive, the Roscoe and Chisel FS are only 5 to 10% more than Canyon.