@@brianl.2104 because we'd rather put that effort into acquiring tasty breakfast sandwiches moguls? fwiw, we've had TRP brakes on many a test bike and have reported they've always been top-notch performers.
00:00 Intro 00:58 Brake lineup in this test 01:31 Test setup 01:53 Test methodology and data collection 02:46 Scoring/rating/key performance indicators 04:39 Dorky No Gas All Brake lore 05:26 What do you like in a brake? 07:05 Day 1: Sram Maven & Sram Code Ultimate 17:40 Sram Maven brake event graph 19:46 Sram Code brake event graph 21:52 Day 2: Shiman-ooooo XTR & MT420 37:32 XTR brake event graph 39:22 MT420 brake event graph 40:46 Day 3: Magura MT7 & Hayes Dominion T4 55:04 Magura MT7 brake event graph 59:07 Hayes Dominion brake event graph 1:00:12 Wrap-up Subscribe (to me) if you appreciate these timestamps :)
Day 3 in the edit: Were the Hayes and Magura setup/riding/data shuffled? I was confused when watching the Magura setup at the coffee shop and then seeing Hayes stuff
MT5/MT7 is a really great brake... when it's working properly. I was a big fan of these brakes, and tried to get all my bikes outfitted with them. But Magura has a really big quality control problem. I had multiple sets of MT5 and MT7 that were insanely difficult, if not impossible, to bleed correctly. My last set of Magura had a contamination issue, and I torched the rotors, installed new pads... everything was great until mid way into the ride, the brakes started squealing loudly, and the calipers lost all their braking power. My suspicion is that Magura has an issue with their piston seals in the calipers, minute or trace amounts of mineral oil were bypassing the seals and contaminating the pads and rotors. I also suspect that this piston seal issue also caused my bleeding issues. When the Magura works as designed, bleeding is quick, the power and lever feel is super on point. Eventually switched to the Dominions and have never looked back.
Code RSCs are probably the most reliable and best all around brake ever made. They arent the best at anything but they do everything at a pro level and are insanely reliable compared to any other brake. I've had multiple Shimanos, Guides, Code R, and Hayes, Code RSC's are the one brake that I just have no complaints about.
@@ah4598 All the “bad” SRAM brakes I’ve ever ridden were poorly bled ones. Given, bleeding them is a bit tricky but when done right I find them to be bombproof.
Been hanging onto mt7s with hc3 for 4 years now all my bikes are outfitted with them never fade no arm pump (bike park or 8hr tech days). Yes they are fussy to set up and bleed the first couple times but easily figured out. It's Mineral oil so no panic if you brake a line. (pun intended) Best thing I did for my braking and arms. Glad to see how and where they rate against others high and low end brakes. And It's not just in my head. Thanks again boys keep dirt in your treads .
Would've liked to see the shimano Mt-520s instead, which are a much better lever for not that much more money. I think they better represent what the budget-braker might prefer (i ran them for ages and loved them. Great vid!
@@makifrable I've found 2mm rotors to work even better without rubbing issues. Also, for some reason I like the feel of the plastic pistons on the mt420 calipers more than the ceramic on mt520. I always just buy the calipers and pair with slx or xt levers
First off, there is no wrong brake. If it works for you then, awesome. Thanks for the testing, you guys seem to put in the work. That said, I know I'm crazy, but I was real happy when Mavens came out. My code r brakes went on sale for 164.00 front and rear. I've been running code r since a year after they came out. I've never felt I've needed anything better, so I haven't. I don't like 10k bikes that's why I run slx or gx drivetrain and my codes.
Incredibly well done test! This is how component tests should be done so that both objective and subjective data can be used to highlight the differences 👍
Little Sidenote to the Mavens: Im a fairly light rider (76kg). Ive set the contact-point in a way so I still have very good modulation. Its possible to have crazy power while still have the modulation.
I ran Code RSC's and then XTR's for years before switching to Shigura (XTR levers, MT7 calipers with Magura rotors) a few years back and it's all I run on all my bikes. Doesn't get much better.
Yeah I like mine too. Getting the lever pull in just the right spot makes a big difference too. You can't have it biting in a position that isn't exactly where you want it.
Me too (4 years) MT5’s which to within a whisker, have the same calliper as the MT7. I don’t get on with Codes which I’ve ridden in one form or other for 20 years (I’m not rich…), not least because of the well known piston degradation (no idea about Maven). The plastic lever broke on one side after 3 yrs. Replaced with XT levers both sides (Shigura) and that combo is even more rounded - brings something of the Hope V4 modulation without loosing the Magura power.
100% agree. Maguras have the best overall feel. Insane you guys did a brake test without TRP in the mix. However, that brake Maas’s me go with the Maguras!
My Optic came with the MT420 with metallic pads. Didn't like the levers but it was a quick and easy switch to put the 6100 levers (about $60 for the pair) with the 420 calipers, quick bleed and you have a great set of cheap brakes.
Magura. Unbeatable modulation and soft lever action. No fatigue with those adjustable levers.Downside is the tooling and separate mounting for gears and droppers.
I got a set of closeout MT420 calipers with metal pads, and connected them to some parts bin Saint levers I bought from a consignment store. Definitely some of the most powerful brakes I've ever had and I spent $60 on the whole set.
The craziest thing to me is the wild price variations I'm seeing for those Shimano MT420's here in Europe. I've seen them for anywhere between 110 euros per side to less than 70 euros for a full set, and a euro is about 1.05 usd right now. At less than 70 euros for a set, I feel like that is some insane value!
I have had Maguras for the last 6 years. I liked the HC3 levers but found them difficult to dial in to my taste. The Loic Bruni lever however is a game changer for my giant hands. All of my bikes, and my son's bikes, have Magura MT8 or MT Trail SL. Once you dial in the bleed they're just brilliant, but I will say getting that perfect bleed can be a challenge.
I don’t get why there is so much hate and polarization over Magura MT7’s. My mechanic says it’s an easy bleed. HC3 levers are a must, performance levers suck, I guess many quibbles there, easily broken from online complaints Bedding took a little while But shit not 1 problem with them. As a heavier dude, power, consistency and range of control with the power is amazing.
I recently got a set of MT7's so easy to bleed for me, takes a little bit of fiddling to get set up really nice but power and feel is one of the best I've riden. Heaps of confidence and being 106ish kg it's nice to have that power on tap
Been using the same set of MT7's for like 6 years across 2 bikes. They're still working great too. I have SRAM Maven Bronze on my new bike and still have the MT7's on my ebike and TBH I still prefer the MT7 over the Maven. The Maven are strong for sure but they are grabby. The MT7's are strong but super easy to control.
Loved my Magura MT7 HC3s on my DH bike! Testers description was spot on. The deal breaker for me was when one of the levers started leaking. Rebuild isn’t possible and with a fragile lever (not to say cheap-ish) thats a big downside as you’ll likely have to shell out for a new lever assembly altogether. Really too bad TRP wasn’t interested in joining. I love my DHR-Evos but thinking of going back to Sram and trying the Mavens on my Heckler SL. Would’ve been an interesting comparison. Great vid guys!
Interesting! What's making you want to go back? I've got a Transition Relay with Code R's that I really hate, sold my previous bike with Dominion A4's and run Saints on my Tues and both of those I really love, but I am interested in the TRP DHR Evos
Magura is usually really good about warranty these days! The no rebuild is a downside, but I’ve had positive experiences dealing with them. Much better than the old days of trying to deal with a certain distributor for Maggie warranty.
I have run MT7-HC3 for years, crashes and beat the shit out of them and never had them leak, but working in a shop I have seen it happen, and the wonderful thing is that Magura has a 5 year no leak guarantee so if you do get a leak they have you covered, much better than the SRAM and Shimano warranty.
@@jonoin35mm98 The thing with the DHRs is they’re basically the opposite of your Saints so I dunno if you’d like em’ lol. They modulate incredibly well but you have to pull harder to get to the bigger power. But hey, a guy in our group has Codes on one bike and Saints on the other and gets along with both so don’t take my word for it! But to answer your question, the short version is that the new Mavens have me looking. The more nuanced answer is that it’s just a combination of factors. My SC Heckler SL came with the new generation Codes and I was pleasantly surprised by the Code Bronzes. Definitely NOT the equivalent of the old base model Code Rs (only tested those in a parking lot, never to touch em again lol). Code BRZs are much better. Very decent power. I think the HS2 rotors are definitely playing a part. Thicker rotors are more robust, and you can feel it when you brake (TRP 2.3s are super stout and rarely bend but can be a pain to line up rub-free at first). That being said, I do wanna upgrade and I find myself Maven-curious. As a 220lbs rider on a bit of a heavier light e-bike, I could use an extra helping of power but need it to be somewhat controllable and not feel like a light switch (looking at you Saints lol). Thats why Sram lever feel with higher power sounds appealing to me. I like the fewer braking events tendency displayed by the testers with them cause I need to learn not to overbrake/ comfort brake and these Mavens might “force” me to forgo braking altogether unless actually necessary. Plus, they use mineral oil just like my DHR Evos. Speaking of which, I also don’t like the stock TRP levers so getting another set comes with the added cost of aftermarket levers whereas I initially get along better with the stock Sram levers. So going with the known quantity of TRP or giving Mavens a try at the risk of being overwhelmed is a question I’ll likely ponder over the winter ;)
@@paradox963 oh wow, I wasn’t even aware of that warranty. Shop I dealt with never even mentionned it. That might just put em back in contention! Ppl would ask me which I preferred between my MT7s and DHR-Evos and I could never pick!HC3 lever was my favorite for sure tho!
Back when I had more money I got on line for Trickstuff Maxima, then one day they emailed me, long after I had forgotten about them, I got them and learned a painful lesson. Brakes with that much power, like the Mavens need to be tuned to use. I'm sure the Sram guys are grumbling, this should be noted, it's very important. I'm betting you guys could have come up with a set up that made them as trusty as your old Codes only way better. I get that you are testing what comes out of the box, and maybe Sram should consider shipping with organic pads, which is becoming a standard set up for many. This is something product managers need to think about, bikes with Mavens should be shipped with organic pads and certainly never 220, people that need more than that can and will be happy to tune up, they are a minority, unless you happen live someplace like Whistler. Thanks for the excellent review, you guys do excellent work, the B Practice Pod is one of the most enjoyable things in MTB journalism.
I’m running Mavens ULT 180mm SRAM HS rotors. Love how I can fly into a high speed turn and slow down why I’m going into the turn. They do need a good brake in period.
Good video guys. The HC3 lever for the magura does not adjust bite point as you state, it changes the leverage for the lever. If you want to adjust the bite point, you need to use the oak components lever.
@@OffTrackMTB I have been eyeing these brakes for awhile and after the Enduro Magazine Review, I am about to pull the trigger. But then I read this videos webpage review of the Hayes and they gave mediocre review. Do you like yours?
The thing about Mavens is they are so powerful you have to teach yourself to have a feather touch. Now imagine you are in a situation where you need to brake hard and your body is in full "holy shit" mode, and now try to have a light touch. It is just learning to really dial back how much force you use to brake.
For my riding XT wins. Economical on price, reliable, easy to get pads. I rarely do big tech and mostly fast descents that require control of momentum. They're still great on feel too.
We need the other 80 brake caliper models tested now . TRP , Magura , Hope , Juin -Tech , Hayes , Formula ,Promax and several others including gravel specific ones . A 3 month test program and an 18 hour long video would be necessary .
I clicked on the video without checking how long it is, but it was perfect as I was cooking lunch :) Great video. Sums up a lot of things said on the market lately. One thing was missing is overlaying or comparing side by side the long graphs, you also kinda forgot to show/mention/compare temperatures of Magura and T4. Graphs were big enough for them to be shown more in depth + with some pointers in up/down areas you mention while talking. In general, more data should be shown vs each other to understand what was happening during rides a bit more. All that could be done shown while you talk about a set of brakes. Thank you for your time and effort.
Had Zee & Saints for a number of years. Then Code RSCs and now Hayes Dominions A4. Dominions are my favourite. Can’t deal with Saints wandering bite point and need for constant bleeding anymore. Code RCSs were just plain weird brakes - a lot of resistance in the free stroke just dumb. Hayes have super smooth power delivery and super light free stroke. They look pants but super functional. Zero wandering point, and minimal maintenance
Sram is one of the few who sells kits so that you can rebuild your brake and dont spend so much money for someone else to do it. Hayes and Magura have zero replacement for the master cylinder seals.
With Hope you can also get any part you may require individually - even for older, out of production models. So you can keep them running for a long time.
You can pick up MT7'S for $290 front and rear. They don't have the hc3 levers but Lord Gun has them for around $100 a pair shipped. Have them on all 3 of my bikes. Left XTs and will never go back. 😊
I bought them with the HC3 levers 2 years ago for $230 a piece. Looks like they're the same price on Amazon right now. Pretty easy to find deals on them.
My sponsored rider has disposed of her Brake Ace sensors . They have cracked and sustained water damage . She has Brembo brake sensors now like those used in motorcross . The Brembo ones have been around since 2017 .
This summer I got a pair of Code RS so hot I made a quick stop an almost set on fire the woods. AT 5 minutes in I was smelling for good my front green Galfer pads,at the end of the 15 min run I had to brake with 2 fingers cos I had no brakes at all. It was the best run of my entire MTB life,best trail ever. Next day my rear brake needed a bleed and new pads. That bike park is the definition of steep and long trails by a long shot hehehe,perfect to test a brake. Code brakes are not very good in my experience. I would like to try Hope V4 brakes. Very nice video.
Excellent Vid Thanks 😎 I Ride Whistler With My CF Demo8 Run Saints With 223 Trickstuff Rotors and Green ProPads . Next Season Shiguras Saint Levers And MT7 MonoBlocks 223TrickStuff Rotors and Green ProPads GoodTimes Should Be 20days At Least Next Year 😁
Really love my MT7’s on long race stages you really don’t have the arm pump from braking and speed checks. Very easy lever pull with lots of different blades. They also have adapters for matchmaker or ispec and that makes them a no brainer for me.
I used to use all Magura, but every time went down the levers cracked, snapped, etc. That material is just way too brittle. Now I have Magura calipers and Shimano levers
@ yes that’s potentially a problem. But I ruined an XT as well. Maguras have just been far superior. I haven’t broken a master but I did brake an HC3 lever blade (AL).
I love my Dominions. However, after having the brake pad bolt come loose (i forgot to check it) in Whistler which led to a leaky piston, I realized that I could not get it serviced (other than bled) in Whistler of all places. No more pads or parts anywhere. This availability of parts issue for bike trips is making me consider going back to one of the big two for my travel bike.
What bike is that Jason? Couldn’t figure it out 😄 I love my Magura MT7s w/ Oak levers. Aside from pad rub noise (now adjustable w/ oak lever), I have zero complaints. They made me faster with more confidence in sketchy steeps. But I’m also no pro. This is my second set and also having invested in the service/bleed kit it made my life a lot easier. Waiting for Gustav’s to come to the US 👀… As far as mounting the MT7s, for anyone curious, officially you bottom out one of the clamp bolts so there's no gap, then tighten the other side until your lever doesn't rotate in regular use (but could spin in a crash). I do not recommend using a torque wrench. They need to be tightened by feel. If they keep spinning on smooth alloy or carbon bars you'll need grip paste like finish line fiber grip.
Still kinda wild to go MT420 vs MT520 with regular 1-finger lever. I know it is going MSRP initially but looking at the costs these days, perhaps even cheaper than the cheap ones tested.
@@mtbshredder5719 the touched on it for a second but sram bleeding edge is hard to beat. It’s just so easy to get a perfect bleed if you at least spent 9 seconds watching the parktool bleed vid.
Formula Cura 4 are now my favourite , had code's before which are good , Hope trouble some , shimano inconsistant bite point and too many failures. never liked the Magura levers but might be willing to try these.
The maven rear break is a pain in the ass when it comes to a break bleed. My bikeshop mechanic said that you have to unmount the rear caliper and just let it hang down. I couldn’t bleed the rear, so i just brought it to a shop
I love my A4s. Best brakes I've ever used. Never tried sram but a butt load of Shimanos, a few Shiguras and a few Tech 3 E4 &V4. Hayes destroys all! I don't like the 4 pad system of Magura calipers. Highly irritating. Maybe one day I'll try full Magura.
Yes, I normally run them with 200mm front and rear which does help, but to run the Brake Ace sensors I couldnt go any smaller than 220. The delivery of power remains consistent with different rotor sizes but certainly isnt as jarring when sizing down.
Braking is everything on steep courses. Back in 2000 I had the shimano 4 piston brakes and I made adapters for the calipers to run 10 inch rotors and I loved those brakes
We wanted to go with the latest and greatest and strongly considered Saints instead of the cheap brake, but with how many World Cup DH racers have switched to XTRs we figured we’d give them a go.
hmm... I've tried MT7 pro and MT5 on few bikes and these always felt spongy. Shimano's felt like having very apparent bite point and less pressure on the lever to reach the desired braking power (so called no modulation, but apparently thats a case for 60kg warriors, not for 100kg dudes like me :D). Srams (guide re's, code r, code rsc's) all happened to cause a lot of hand fatigue for me. Tried Dominions A4's and these felt... as light in operation as shimano's, but more powerful (compared to 6120, 7120 and 8120). However never had an opportunity to test TRP DHR Evo's :~) Considering my weight I have never ridden a brake set which would throw me OTB without putting a truck on the lever, so... still looking for one :D But I think Dominions a4's were the closest to achieve that.
You got a bad bleed with Maguras or bad bed in. Heavy dude here and MT7’s are the only brake I will run. Consistency, Power, control, that combo is on point
Magura MT7 Pro since August 2023 with L.B. style DH levers and Sram HS2 rotors, 2023 Orbea Rise, my dream build. Your dream may be different.💭 I don't ride the speeds like I did back in the day, but I still need great brakes. These are my choice of all that I've tested and absolutely the best I've owned. The stock 8p pads are the only ones I've needed, summer or winter. The lever body is the injection molded CARBOTECTURE SL, carbon fibres and polymer (carbon + plastic). Read the torque specs for the screws, as you should. The callipers are forged one piece, not bolted together CNC jewels. The magnetic pad retention is so much more fun than the Shimano springs are. Prior brake sets owned, most recent to oldest: TRP Quadiem G-Spec on three bike builds, Shimano SLX on two builds, Shimano Deore, 4 piston one build, original Hayes hydraulic circa 2000, late 80's Magura hydraulic rim brakes with post braces. All of these disk brake systems needed to use sintered pads. All used 200 or 203 rotors except in year 2000+, Hayes 180mm/180mm. My old, old XC brakes were hydraulic Magura post-mount rim brakes with ceramic-coated brake tracks on the rims. That setup was probably more expensive than my newest MT7 Pro set up because of the rim/wheel build cost being part of the brake system. Prior to mtb-ing I raced on Moto-X bikes. Those motors were always comparatively similar between manufacturers for power and weight but the brakes were not equal. If it was always about acceleration we wouldn't need brakes.🤣 Ask Arron Gwin or Loïc Bruni.
Glad to hear that, i have Mt7 with 220 Magura rotors, finally stopping on a dime!! After 3 years didn't have any issues with levers although smashed them couple of times against rocks as well pretty badly- key is to tighten them pretty light to the bar, so that under force they can actually twist, not break.
how to reduce the play on the levers 5.51 better be the prototype engineer to really have the most of it we better play this game fr ,if you like MTB checkout the new playlist A-X-L nice movie though shout out bimbos ,tbh always stuck in the anthill better get some antbears ,hibernation hibernation its sprring
For everyone asking, "where's TRP?" - We asked them and they didn't want to be included in the test.
But what about Hope?
Who cares if they don’t want to be included? Just go buy, borrow, or steal a set. Are you making videos for us riders or for TRP?
So they’re pretty much just telling us that they’re releasing a new brake very soon interesting.
@@brianl.2104 vitalmtb dont like to wear suits ....especially lawsuits
@@brianl.2104 because we'd rather put that effort into acquiring tasty breakfast sandwiches moguls? fwiw, we've had TRP brakes on many a test bike and have reported they've always been top-notch performers.
00:00 Intro
00:58 Brake lineup in this test
01:31 Test setup
01:53 Test methodology and data collection
02:46 Scoring/rating/key performance indicators
04:39 Dorky No Gas All Brake lore
05:26 What do you like in a brake?
07:05 Day 1: Sram Maven & Sram Code Ultimate
17:40 Sram Maven brake event graph
19:46 Sram Code brake event graph
21:52 Day 2: Shiman-ooooo XTR & MT420
37:32 XTR brake event graph
39:22 MT420 brake event graph
40:46 Day 3: Magura MT7 & Hayes Dominion T4
55:04 Magura MT7 brake event graph
59:07 Hayes Dominion brake event graph
1:00:12 Wrap-up
Subscribe (to me) if you appreciate these timestamps :)
Thanks, subbed
Day 3 in the edit: Were the Hayes and Magura setup/riding/data shuffled? I was confused when watching the Magura setup at the coffee shop and then seeing Hayes stuff
🙌🏽🙌🏽
Gives this man a cookie! :)
Shigura set up is the best for me, can recommend for everyone.
Can confirm Shigura is really nice, the best of both worlds!
Hope should definitely be in this test.
Agree - Tech4-V4 got it all
@@sinterior2626 been using hopes 8 years and 3 years ago changed for magura and i can assume magura beats hope
Yep - got Hope brakes RX4, RX4+, EV4's on four bikes.
MTB and metal music! My jaw dropped. Such a good pair :D
Had Code RSCs, and DHR-evos, now on Dominion A4s which are my favorite thus far 🤙🏻
MT5/MT7 is a really great brake... when it's working properly. I was a big fan of these brakes, and tried to get all my bikes outfitted with them. But Magura has a really big quality control problem. I had multiple sets of MT5 and MT7 that were insanely difficult, if not impossible, to bleed correctly. My last set of Magura had a contamination issue, and I torched the rotors, installed new pads... everything was great until mid way into the ride, the brakes started squealing loudly, and the calipers lost all their braking power. My suspicion is that Magura has an issue with their piston seals in the calipers, minute or trace amounts of mineral oil were bypassing the seals and contaminating the pads and rotors. I also suspect that this piston seal issue also caused my bleeding issues. When the Magura works as designed, bleeding is quick, the power and lever feel is super on point. Eventually switched to the Dominions and have never looked back.
I got rid of different Sram brakes from all my bikes.... the best thing you can do
Second that!
Love sram brakes they feel amazing and basicly maintance free.
Code RSCs are probably the most reliable and best all around brake ever made. They arent the best at anything but they do everything at a pro level and are insanely reliable compared to any other brake. I've had multiple Shimanos, Guides, Code R, and Hayes, Code RSC's are the one brake that I just have no complaints about.
@@ah4598 All the “bad” SRAM brakes I’ve ever ridden were poorly bled ones. Given, bleeding them is a bit tricky but when done right I find them to be bombproof.
I learned to trash SRAM Brakes after I put them on my 2017 build.
Rad video, thank you for taking the time to test all of the brakes and share your thoughts! Website article is wicked too!
Been hanging onto mt7s with hc3 for 4 years now all my bikes are outfitted with them never fade no arm pump (bike park or 8hr tech days).
Yes they are fussy to set up and bleed the first couple times but easily figured out. It's Mineral oil so no panic if you brake a line. (pun intended) Best thing I did for my braking and arms. Glad to see how and where they rate against others high and low end brakes. And It's not just in my head. Thanks again boys keep dirt in your treads .
Would've liked to see the shimano Mt-520s instead, which are a much better lever for not that much more money. I think they better represent what the budget-braker might prefer (i ran them for ages and loved them. Great vid!
MT520s on plain 1.8mm galfer wave 203mm mated with EBC gold pads are absolutely stellar
@@makifrable I've found 2mm rotors to work even better without rubbing issues. Also, for some reason I like the feel of the plastic pistons on the mt420 calipers more than the ceramic on mt520. I always just buy the calipers and pair with slx or xt levers
I wish Hope V4s were in this but still a great review.
First off, there is no wrong brake. If it works for you then, awesome. Thanks for the testing, you guys seem to put in the work. That said, I know I'm crazy, but I was real happy when Mavens came out. My code r brakes went on sale for 164.00 front and rear. I've been running code r since a year after they came out. I've never felt I've needed anything better, so I haven't. I don't like 10k bikes that's why I run slx or gx drivetrain and my codes.
nothing wrong with a well maintained pair of codes
Those set screws on the Hayes caliper are amazing. What an awesome feature.
I have A4s on two of my bikes, the set screws look like a great idea but in all honesty, they are a bit, "meh! so what!"
Great brakes though.
Incredibly well done test! This is how component tests should be done so that both objective and subjective data can be used to highlight the differences 👍
Little Sidenote to the Mavens: Im a fairly light rider (76kg). Ive set the contact-point in a way so I still have very good modulation. Its possible to have crazy power while still have the modulation.
I ran Code RSC's and then XTR's for years before switching to Shigura (XTR levers, MT7 calipers with Magura rotors) a few years back and it's all I run on all my bikes. Doesn't get much better.
Shiguras are the way to go. XT to MT5. Amazing feel and power.
The data breakdown is really cool. What a great tool.
I actually like my mavens a lot. With different rotor sizes and pads you can adjust the power. So powerful no hard pulls needed. Easy on the hands.
Yeah I like mine too. Getting the lever pull in just the right spot makes a big difference too. You can't have it biting in a position that isn't exactly where you want it.
Magura mt5 for years. Super happy
Me too (4 years) MT5’s which to within a whisker, have the same calliper as the MT7. I don’t get on with Codes which I’ve ridden in one form or other for 20 years (I’m not rich…), not least because of the well known piston degradation (no idea about Maven). The plastic lever broke on one side after 3 yrs. Replaced with XT levers both sides (Shigura) and that combo is even more rounded - brings something of the Hope V4 modulation without loosing the Magura power.
100% agree. Maguras have the best overall feel. Insane you guys did a brake test without TRP in the mix. However, that brake Maas’s me go with the Maguras!
My Optic came with the MT420 with metallic pads. Didn't like the levers but it was a quick and easy switch to put the 6100 levers (about $60 for the pair) with the 420 calipers, quick bleed and you have a great set of cheap brakes.
Magura. Unbeatable modulation and soft lever action. No fatigue with those adjustable levers.Downside is the tooling and separate mounting for gears and droppers.
Magura mt7 with xtr leavers and galfer pads and rotors 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
I got a set of closeout MT420 calipers with metal pads, and connected them to some parts bin Saint levers I bought from a consignment store. Definitely some of the most powerful brakes I've ever had and I spent $60 on the whole set.
The craziest thing to me is the wild price variations I'm seeing for those Shimano MT420's here in Europe.
I've seen them for anywhere between 110 euros per side to less than 70 euros for a full set, and a euro is about 1.05 usd right now.
At less than 70 euros for a set, I feel like that is some insane value!
An hour video without chapters?
I added a comment with timestamps now 💆
Not a problem if you watch the whole vid 🤷♂️
@@RiegerTV is a problem if you wanna reference something said in the video to one of your mates :)
Included now
Spoiled child
I have had Maguras for the last 6 years. I liked the HC3 levers but found them difficult to dial in to my taste. The Loic Bruni lever however is a game changer for my giant hands. All of my bikes, and my son's bikes, have Magura MT8 or MT Trail SL. Once you dial in the bleed they're just brilliant, but I will say getting that perfect bleed can be a challenge.
I don’t get why there is so much hate and polarization over Magura MT7’s.
My mechanic says it’s an easy bleed.
HC3 levers are a must, performance levers suck, I guess many quibbles there, easily broken from online complaints
Bedding took a little while
But shit not 1 problem with them.
As a heavier dude, power, consistency and range of control with the power is amazing.
I recently got a set of MT7's so easy to bleed for me, takes a little bit of fiddling to get set up really nice but power and feel is one of the best I've riden. Heaps of confidence and being 106ish kg it's nice to have that power on tap
Everyone has different opinions and takes on everything I feel like watching comparisons and reviews of other stuff are getting useless.
Magura wood screw designer here. Course thread is used because it makes it less likely to strip and takes way more force to rip out.
Been using the same set of MT7's for like 6 years across 2 bikes. They're still working great too. I have SRAM Maven Bronze on my new bike and still have the MT7's on my ebike and TBH I still prefer the MT7 over the Maven. The Maven are strong for sure but they are grabby. The MT7's are strong but super easy to control.
Loved my Magura MT7 HC3s on my DH bike! Testers description was spot on. The deal breaker for me was when one of the levers started leaking. Rebuild isn’t possible and with a fragile lever (not to say cheap-ish) thats a big downside as you’ll likely have to shell out for a new lever assembly altogether.
Really too bad TRP wasn’t interested in joining. I love my DHR-Evos but thinking of going back to Sram and trying the Mavens on my Heckler SL. Would’ve been an interesting comparison.
Great vid guys!
Interesting! What's making you want to go back?
I've got a Transition Relay with Code R's that I really hate, sold my previous bike with Dominion A4's and run Saints on my Tues and both of those I really love, but I am interested in the TRP DHR Evos
Magura is usually really good about warranty these days!
The no rebuild is a downside, but I’ve had positive experiences dealing with them. Much better than the old days of trying to deal with a certain distributor for Maggie warranty.
I have run MT7-HC3 for years, crashes and beat the shit out of them and never had them leak, but working in a shop I have seen it happen, and the wonderful thing is that Magura has a 5 year no leak guarantee so if you do get a leak they have you covered, much better than the SRAM and Shimano warranty.
@@jonoin35mm98
The thing with the DHRs is they’re basically the opposite of your Saints so I dunno if you’d like em’ lol. They modulate incredibly well but you have to pull harder to get to the bigger power. But hey, a guy in our group has Codes on one bike and Saints on the other and gets along with both so don’t take my word for it!
But to answer your question, the short version is that the new Mavens have me looking.
The more nuanced answer is that it’s just a combination of factors. My SC Heckler SL came with the new generation Codes and I was pleasantly surprised by the Code Bronzes. Definitely NOT the equivalent of the old base model Code Rs (only tested those in a parking lot, never to touch em again lol). Code BRZs are much better. Very decent power. I think the HS2 rotors are definitely playing a part. Thicker rotors are more robust, and you can feel it when you brake (TRP 2.3s are super stout and rarely bend but can be a pain to line up rub-free at first).
That being said, I do wanna upgrade and I find myself Maven-curious. As a 220lbs rider on a bit of a heavier light e-bike, I could use an extra helping of power but need it to be somewhat controllable and not feel like a light switch (looking at you Saints lol). Thats why Sram lever feel with higher power sounds appealing to me. I like the fewer braking events tendency displayed by the testers with them cause I need to learn not to overbrake/ comfort brake and these Mavens might “force” me to forgo braking altogether unless actually necessary. Plus, they use mineral oil just like my DHR Evos. Speaking of which, I also don’t like the stock TRP levers so getting another set comes with the added cost of aftermarket levers whereas I initially get along better with the stock Sram levers.
So going with the known quantity of TRP or giving Mavens a try at the risk of being overwhelmed is a question I’ll likely ponder over the winter ;)
@@paradox963 oh wow, I wasn’t even aware of that warranty. Shop I dealt with never even mentionned it. That might just put em back in contention! Ppl would ask me which I preferred between my MT7s and DHR-Evos and I could never pick!HC3 lever was my favorite for sure tho!
No Hope Tech4 V4's?? :(
No intend and trickstuff too😢
Do you have a set?
Schroeder is a G, USDH & BpracticePodcast for life💪
Back when I had more money I got on line for Trickstuff Maxima, then one day they emailed me, long after I had forgotten about them, I got them and learned a painful lesson. Brakes with that much power, like the Mavens need to be tuned to use. I'm sure the Sram guys are grumbling, this should be noted, it's very important. I'm betting you guys could have come up with a set up that made them as trusty as your old Codes only way better. I get that you are testing what comes out of the box, and maybe Sram should consider shipping with organic pads, which is becoming a standard set up for many. This is something product managers need to think about, bikes with Mavens should be shipped with organic pads and certainly never 220, people that need more than that can and will be happy to tune up, they are a minority, unless you happen live someplace like Whistler.
Thanks for the excellent review, you guys do excellent work, the B Practice Pod is one of the most enjoyable things in MTB journalism.
I’m running Mavens ULT 180mm SRAM HS rotors. Love how I can fly into a high speed turn and slow down why I’m going into the turn. They do need a good brake in period.
Good video guys. The HC3 lever for the magura does not adjust bite point as you state, it changes the leverage for the lever. If you want to adjust the bite point, you need to use the oak components lever.
For sure, Oak levers make that brake even better. Helps a bunch to dial in that pad contact!
Did you forget to wrap about the Hayes?
I was wondering too. It's what I run and I was curious to see what they had to say
@@OffTrackMTB I have been eyeing these brakes for awhile and after the Enduro Magazine Review, I am about to pull the trigger. But then I read this videos webpage review of the Hayes and they gave mediocre review. Do you like yours?
Wo less than 1 minute for hayes… okaaaaayyyy
The thing about Mavens is they are so powerful you have to teach yourself to have a feather touch. Now imagine you are in a situation where you need to brake hard and your body is in full "holy shit" mode, and now try to have a light touch. It is just learning to really dial back how much force you use to brake.
For my riding XT wins. Economical on price, reliable, easy to get pads. I rarely do big tech and mostly fast descents that require control of momentum. They're still great on feel too.
We need the other 80 brake caliper models tested now . TRP , Magura , Hope , Juin -Tech , Hayes , Formula ,Promax and several others including gravel specific ones . A 3 month test program and an 18 hour long video would be necessary .
I clicked on the video without checking how long it is, but it was perfect as I was cooking lunch :) Great video. Sums up a lot of things said on the market lately.
One thing was missing is overlaying or comparing side by side the long graphs, you also kinda forgot to show/mention/compare temperatures of Magura and T4. Graphs were big enough for them to be shown more in depth + with some pointers in up/down areas you mention while talking. In general, more data should be shown vs each other to understand what was happening during rides a bit more. All that could be done shown while you talk about a set of brakes.
Thank you for your time and effort.
Still very happy rocking a pair of Saints and 203mm XT Freeza disks on a full power enduro emtb
missed opportunity to use a control brake pad for all the brakes. im sure galfer makes a pad that fits all brakes in this test.
Had Zee & Saints for a number of years. Then Code RSCs and now Hayes Dominions A4. Dominions are my favourite. Can’t deal with Saints wandering bite point and need for constant bleeding anymore. Code RCSs were just plain weird brakes - a lot of resistance in the free stroke just dumb. Hayes have super smooth power delivery and super light free stroke. They look pants but super functional. Zero wandering point, and minimal maintenance
Sram is one of the few who sells kits so that you can rebuild your brake and dont spend so much money for someone else to do it. Hayes and Magura have zero replacement for the master cylinder seals.
I’ve never needed a master cylinder service on anything but a sram brake lever to be fair.
With Hope you can also get any part you may require individually - even for older, out of production models. So you can keep them running for a long time.
You can pick up MT7'S for $290 front and rear. They don't have the hc3 levers but Lord Gun has them for around $100 a pair shipped. Have them on all 3 of my bikes. Left XTs and will never go back. 😊
Also worth mentioning. They tested the Maguras on 1.8mm Shimano rotors, which is minimum thickness for Magura brakes. Magura uses 2mm rotors.
I bought them with the HC3 levers 2 years ago for $230 a piece. Looks like they're the same price on Amazon right now. Pretty easy to find deals on them.
@@SpineShank7 in Europe they are discounted to 240€ for a pair since the announcment of the new Magura Gustav brakes
Shigura Saint Levers MT7 s Green ProPads 223 Trickstuff Rotors .Thats for Next Season Whistler 😎
My sponsored rider has disposed of her Brake Ace sensors . They have cracked and sustained water damage . She has Brembo brake sensors now like those used in motorcross . The Brembo ones have been around since 2017 .
This summer I got a pair of Code RS so hot I made a quick stop an almost set on fire the woods. AT 5 minutes in I was smelling for good my front green Galfer pads,at the end of the 15 min run I had to brake with 2 fingers cos I had no brakes at all. It was the best run of my entire MTB life,best trail ever. Next day my rear brake needed a bleed and new pads.
That bike park is the definition of steep and long trails by a long shot hehehe,perfect to test a brake. Code brakes are not very good in my experience. I would like to try Hope V4 brakes. Very nice video.
It’s because u can’t ride. Overbearing.
You should use original metal pads , they work nice.
Galfer is shit. All organic. Try Sram sintered (bronze carrier).
Go get some sintered Shimano pads for the XTR and you will be impressed with the power.
Galfer rotors and pads on shimano brakes makes a world of a difference.
The MT7s are sooo good. The only downside is the maintenance. They can be kind of a pain to bleed.
reduced pad deflection, quality pad material, and proper piston matching equals = powerful, yet modulated braking setups. (and proper bedding procedure assumed)
Excellent Vid Thanks 😎 I Ride Whistler With My CF Demo8 Run Saints With 223 Trickstuff Rotors and Green ProPads . Next Season Shiguras Saint Levers And MT7 MonoBlocks 223TrickStuff Rotors and Green ProPads GoodTimes Should Be 20days At Least Next Year 😁
My stumpy pemberton came with mt7’s and they’re excellent.
TRP?
No TRP no watchy, no thumbs upy.
@@glpf5 frrrr
we asked TRP and they didn't want to be included in the test.
@@vitalmtb oh huh ok
@@vitalmtb That's disappointing.
the xtr caliper is two halves bolted together
Really love my MT7’s on long race stages you really don’t have the arm pump from braking and speed checks. Very easy lever pull with lots of different blades. They also have adapters for matchmaker or ispec and that makes them a no brainer for me.
I used to use all Magura, but every time went down the levers cracked, snapped, etc. That material is just way too brittle. Now I have Magura calipers and Shimano levers
@@garyfuller6553ever tried the HC3 levers? Metal
@ the other part that attaches to the bar is still fiber. I’ve had them with very small cracks that are hard to find. I’m sticking with all metal.
@ yes that’s potentially a problem. But I ruined an XT as well. Maguras have just been far superior. I haven’t broken a master but I did brake an HC3 lever blade (AL).
I love my Dominions. However, after having the brake pad bolt come loose (i forgot to check it) in Whistler which led to a leaky piston, I realized that I could not get it serviced (other than bled) in Whistler of all places. No more pads or parts anywhere. This availability of parts issue for bike trips is making me consider going back to one of the big two for my travel bike.
My dominions leaked all season. Word on the street is that warranty can take up to three months unfortunately
What bike is that Jason? Couldn’t figure it out 😄
I love my Magura MT7s w/ Oak levers. Aside from pad rub noise (now adjustable w/ oak lever), I have zero complaints. They made me faster with more confidence in sketchy steeps. But I’m also no pro. This is my second set and also having invested in the service/bleed kit it made my life a lot easier. Waiting for Gustav’s to come to the US 👀…
As far as mounting the MT7s, for anyone curious, officially you bottom out one of the clamp bolts so there's no gap, then tighten the other side until your lever doesn't rotate in regular use (but could spin in a crash). I do not recommend using a torque wrench. They need to be tightened by feel. If they keep spinning on smooth alloy or carbon bars you'll need grip paste like finish line fiber grip.
I was hoping to see the Gustav Pro tested. Too bad they couldn’t send those over.
Nice review team. Is it possible for guys to try some after-market levers also, i.e., Oak Components levers?
Thanks for detail review. 25:37 One misinformation: xtr 4pot caliper is clearly not one piece.
If you wantvto actually stop, its the front that does the work, rear brakes are for modulation, front are for stopping
Still kinda wild to go MT420 vs MT520 with regular 1-finger lever. I know it is going MSRP initially but looking at the costs these days, perhaps even cheaper than the cheap ones tested.
I really hoped for some back to back times to validate the feel.
Would have liked to hear more about how the bleed experience was aswell. as that can be a big thing for us "normal humans"
@@mtbshredder5719 the touched on it for a second but sram bleeding edge is hard to beat. It’s just so easy to get a perfect bleed if you at least spent 9 seconds watching the parktool bleed vid.
Enjoyed that.
Where were Shimano Saints instead of budget Shimanos
Shimano Saints much better compariosn to the Mavens. Sad not see them included.
@DJTmtb822 agree
Formula Cura 4 are now my favourite , had code's before which are good , Hope trouble some , shimano inconsistant bite point and too many failures. never liked the Magura levers but might be willing to try these.
I changed the brake levers of my MT7s to Oak Components, a bit expensive, but its the perfect brake for me (95kg)
The maven rear break is a pain in the ass when it comes to a break bleed. My bikeshop mechanic said that you have to unmount the rear caliper and just let it hang down. I couldn’t bleed the rear, so i just brought it to a shop
I had no issues like that with mine. Bled them once and they feel great
@ seems like its not always that smooth🤷🏻♂️
Shimano Saint
How can you not test the HopeTech 4 v4?
I love my A4s. Best brakes I've ever used. Never tried sram but a butt load of Shimanos, a few Shiguras and a few Tech 3 E4 &V4. Hayes destroys all! I don't like the 4 pad system of Magura calipers. Highly irritating. Maybe one day I'll try full Magura.
Why not use Zee/Saint brakes?
I don't have trps therefore i was still able to learn something from this test.
Why were the XTR the only ones you tested with Resin pads and not metallic pads like the others??? Would have felt WAAAYYY different!
Shimano does make an RT-66 in 220mm.
and where are SAINTS ????
Doesnt sram recomend smaller rotos on the maven to get some of that modulation withough instantly locking up
Yes, I normally run them with 200mm front and rear which does help, but to run the Brake Ace sensors I couldnt go any smaller than 220. The delivery of power remains consistent with different rotor sizes but certainly isnt as jarring when sizing down.
Let's goooooo!
1:10
What rotor is that?
Looks like a Shimano Ice-Tech
What brand is the other bike, not the scott??
What’s the black and white double BOA shoes???
They are the Fox Union BOA Flat shoes and are on our list of the Best of 2024 Products!
Braking is everything on steep courses. Back in 2000 I had the shimano 4 piston brakes and I made adapters for the calipers to run 10 inch rotors and I loved those brakes
No saints?
Wished the TRP DHR Evos were tested.
Why not test the saints? The greatest brakes known to bicycles 😌
We wanted to go with the latest and greatest and strongly considered Saints instead of the cheap brake, but with how many World Cup DH racers have switched to XTRs we figured we’d give them a go.
Cold weather testing? That’s where I find “non-dot” fluid brakes fail miserably with a wandering bite point.
I have the Zees, and they are as good in modulation as my old BD8, idk what people are on
Good thing you forgot Hope Tech4 V4. Wouldn’t want to embarrass your sponsors
we gave hope 2022 product of the year - ruclips.net/video/T6DqHg2AjE0/видео.html
I thougth you would choose Shimano Saint brakes. :(
Accurate comparative testing is impossible due to the human lever operation factor and variability for each event .
hmm... I've tried MT7 pro and MT5 on few bikes and these always felt spongy. Shimano's felt like having very apparent bite point and less pressure on the lever to reach the desired braking power (so called no modulation, but apparently thats a case for 60kg warriors, not for 100kg dudes like me :D). Srams (guide re's, code r, code rsc's) all happened to cause a lot of hand fatigue for me. Tried Dominions A4's and these felt... as light in operation as shimano's, but more powerful (compared to 6120, 7120 and 8120). However never had an opportunity to test TRP DHR Evo's :~) Considering my weight I have never ridden a brake set which would throw me OTB without putting a truck on the lever, so... still looking for one :D But I think Dominions a4's were the closest to achieve that.
You got a bad bleed with Maguras or bad bed in.
Heavy dude here and MT7’s are the only brake I will run. Consistency, Power, control, that combo is on point
Tested high-end SRAM brakes but did not include SAINTS for Shimano? hmmm
So you are saying xtr is not high end model from shimano?
Magura MT7 Pro since August 2023 with L.B. style DH levers and Sram HS2 rotors, 2023 Orbea Rise, my dream build.
Your dream may be different.💭
I don't ride the speeds like I did back in the day, but I still need great brakes.
These are my choice of all that I've tested and absolutely the best I've owned. The stock 8p pads are the only ones I've needed, summer or winter. The lever body is the injection molded CARBOTECTURE SL, carbon fibres and polymer (carbon + plastic). Read the torque specs for the screws, as you should. The callipers are forged one piece, not bolted together CNC jewels. The magnetic pad retention is so much more fun than the Shimano springs are.
Prior brake sets owned, most recent to oldest: TRP Quadiem G-Spec on three bike builds, Shimano SLX on two builds, Shimano Deore, 4 piston one build, original Hayes hydraulic circa 2000, late 80's Magura hydraulic rim brakes with post braces. All of these disk brake systems needed to use sintered pads. All used 200 or 203 rotors except in year 2000+, Hayes 180mm/180mm. My old, old XC brakes were hydraulic Magura post-mount rim brakes with ceramic-coated brake tracks on the rims. That setup was probably more expensive than my newest MT7 Pro set up because of the rim/wheel build cost being part of the brake system.
Prior to mtb-ing I raced on Moto-X bikes. Those motors were always comparatively similar between manufacturers for power and weight but the brakes were not equal. If it was always about acceleration we wouldn't need brakes.🤣 Ask Arron Gwin or Loïc Bruni.
Glad to hear that, i have Mt7 with 220 Magura rotors, finally stopping on a dime!! After 3 years didn't have any issues with levers although smashed them couple of times against rocks as well pretty badly- key is to tighten them pretty light to the bar, so that under force they can actually twist, not break.
how to reduce the play on the levers 5.51 better be the prototype engineer to really have the most of it we better play this game fr ,if you like MTB checkout the new playlist A-X-L nice movie though shout out bimbos ,tbh always stuck in the anthill better get some antbears ,hibernation hibernation its sprring
Except the maguras are plastic and break very easily and that's why people do shigura because the levers are fragile