@@brianl.2104 because we'd rather put that effort into acquiring tasty breakfast sandwiches moguls? fwiw, we've had TRP brakes on many a test bike and have reported they've always been top-notch performers.
00:00 Intro 00:58 Brake lineup in this test 01:31 Test setup 01:53 Test methodology and data collection 02:46 Scoring/rating/key performance indicators 04:39 Dorky No Gas All Brake lore 05:26 What do you like in a brake? 07:05 Day 1: Sram Maven & Sram Code Ultimate 17:40 Sram Maven brake event graph 19:46 Sram Code brake event graph 21:52 Day 2: Shiman-ooooo XTR & MT420 37:32 XTR brake event graph 39:22 MT420 brake event graph 40:46 Day 3: Magura MT7 & Hayes Dominion T4 55:04 Magura MT7 brake event graph 59:07 Hayes Dominion brake event graph 1:00:12 Wrap-up Subscribe (to me) if you appreciate these timestamps :)
Day 3 in the edit: Were the Hayes and Magura setup/riding/data shuffled? I was confused when watching the Magura setup at the coffee shop and then seeing Hayes stuff
Code RSCs are probably the most reliable and best all around brake ever made. They arent the best at anything but they do everything at a pro level and are insanely reliable compared to any other brake. I've had multiple Shimanos, Guides, Code R, and Hayes, Code RSC's are the one brake that I just have no complaints about.
@@ah4598 All the “bad” SRAM brakes I’ve ever ridden were poorly bled ones. Given, bleeding them is a bit tricky but when done right I find them to be bombproof.
First off, there is no wrong brake. If it works for you then, awesome. Thanks for the testing, you guys seem to put in the work. That said, I know I'm crazy, but I was real happy when Mavens came out. My code r brakes went on sale for 164.00 front and rear. I've been running code r since a year after they came out. I've never felt I've needed anything better, so I haven't. I don't like 10k bikes that's why I run slx or gx drivetrain and my codes.
Been hanging onto mt7s with hc3 for 4 years now all my bikes are outfitted with them never fade no arm pump (bike park or 8hr tech days). Yes they are fussy to set up and bleed the first couple times but easily figured out. It's Mineral oil so no panic if you brake a line. (pun intended) Best thing I did for my braking and arms. Glad to see how and where they rate against others high and low end brakes. And It's not just in my head. Thanks again boys keep dirt in your treads .
Incredibly well done test! This is how component tests should be done so that both objective and subjective data can be used to highlight the differences 👍
Would've liked to see the shimano Mt-520s instead, which are a much better lever for not that much more money. I think they better represent what the budget-braker might prefer (i ran them for ages and loved them. Great vid!
@@makifrable I've found 2mm rotors to work even better without rubbing issues. Also, for some reason I like the feel of the plastic pistons on the mt420 calipers more than the ceramic on mt520. I always just buy the calipers and pair with slx or xt levers
MT5/MT7 is a really great brake... when it's working properly. I was a big fan of these brakes, and tried to get all my bikes outfitted with them. But Magura has a really big quality control problem. I had multiple sets of MT5 and MT7 that were insanely difficult, if not impossible, to bleed correctly. My last set of Magura had a contamination issue, and I torched the rotors, installed new pads... everything was great until mid way into the ride, the brakes started squealing loudly, and the calipers lost all their braking power. My suspicion is that Magura has an issue with their piston seals in the calipers, minute or trace amounts of mineral oil were bypassing the seals and contaminating the pads and rotors. I also suspect that this piston seal issue also caused my bleeding issues. When the Magura works as designed, bleeding is quick, the power and lever feel is super on point. Eventually switched to the Dominions and have never looked back.
This summer I got a pair of Code RS so hot I made a quick stop an almost set on fire the woods. AT 5 minutes in I was smelling for good my front green Galfer pads,at the end of the 15 min run I had to brake with 2 fingers cos I had no brakes at all. It was the best run of my entire MTB life,best trail ever. Next day my rear brake needed a bleed and new pads. That bike park is the definition of steep and long trails by a long shot hehehe,perfect to test a brake. Code brakes are not very good in my experience. I would like to try Hope V4 brakes. Very nice video.
I ran Code RSC's and then XTR's for years before switching to Shigura (XTR levers, MT7 calipers with Magura rotors) a few years back and it's all I run on all my bikes. Doesn't get much better.
100% agree. Maguras have the best overall feel. Insane you guys did a brake test without TRP in the mix. However, that brake Maas’s me go with the Maguras!
Yeah I like mine too. Getting the lever pull in just the right spot makes a big difference too. You can't have it biting in a position that isn't exactly where you want it.
I don’t get why there is so much hate and polarization over Magura MT7’s. My mechanic says it’s an easy bleed. HC3 levers are a must, performance levers suck, I guess many quibbles there, easily broken from online complaints Bedding took a little while But shit not 1 problem with them. As a heavier dude, power, consistency and range of control with the power is amazing.
I recently got a set of MT7's so easy to bleed for me, takes a little bit of fiddling to get set up really nice but power and feel is one of the best I've riden. Heaps of confidence and being 106ish kg it's nice to have that power on tap
My Optic came with the MT420 with metallic pads. Didn't like the levers but it was a quick and easy switch to put the 6100 levers (about $60 for the pair) with the 420 calipers, quick bleed and you have a great set of cheap brakes.
I have had Maguras for the last 6 years. I liked the HC3 levers but found them difficult to dial in to my taste. The Loic Bruni lever however is a game changer for my giant hands. All of my bikes, and my son's bikes, have Magura MT8 or MT Trail SL. Once you dial in the bleed they're just brilliant, but I will say getting that perfect bleed can be a challenge.
Little Sidenote to the Mavens: Im a fairly light rider (76kg). Ive set the contact-point in a way so I still have very good modulation. Its possible to have crazy power while still have the modulation.
You can pick up MT7'S for $290 front and rear. They don't have the hc3 levers but Lord Gun has them for around $100 a pair shipped. Have them on all 3 of my bikes. Left XTs and will never go back. 😊
I bought them with the HC3 levers 2 years ago for $230 a piece. Looks like they're the same price on Amazon right now. Pretty easy to find deals on them.
Back when I had more money I got on line for Trickstuff Maxima, then one day they emailed me, long after I had forgotten about them, I got them and learned a painful lesson. Brakes with that much power, like the Mavens need to be tuned to use. I'm sure the Sram guys are grumbling, this should be noted, it's very important. I'm betting you guys could have come up with a set up that made them as trusty as your old Codes only way better. I get that you are testing what comes out of the box, and maybe Sram should consider shipping with organic pads, which is becoming a standard set up for many. This is something product managers need to think about, bikes with Mavens should be shipped with organic pads and certainly never 220, people that need more than that can and will be happy to tune up, they are a minority, unless you happen live someplace like Whistler. Thanks for the excellent review, you guys do excellent work, the B Practice Pod is one of the most enjoyable things in MTB journalism.
Loved my Magura MT7 HC3s on my DH bike! Testers description was spot on. The deal breaker for me was when one of the levers started leaking. Rebuild isn’t possible and with a fragile lever (not to say cheap-ish) thats a big downside as you’ll likely have to shell out for a new lever assembly altogether. Really too bad TRP wasn’t interested in joining. I love my DHR-Evos but thinking of going back to Sram and trying the Mavens on my Heckler SL. Would’ve been an interesting comparison. Great vid guys!
Interesting! What's making you want to go back? I've got a Transition Relay with Code R's that I really hate, sold my previous bike with Dominion A4's and run Saints on my Tues and both of those I really love, but I am interested in the TRP DHR Evos
Magura is usually really good about warranty these days! The no rebuild is a downside, but I’ve had positive experiences dealing with them. Much better than the old days of trying to deal with a certain distributor for Maggie warranty.
I have run MT7-HC3 for years, crashes and beat the shit out of them and never had them leak, but working in a shop I have seen it happen, and the wonderful thing is that Magura has a 5 year no leak guarantee so if you do get a leak they have you covered, much better than the SRAM and Shimano warranty.
@@jonoin35mm98 The thing with the DHRs is they’re basically the opposite of your Saints so I dunno if you’d like em’ lol. They modulate incredibly well but you have to pull harder to get to the bigger power. But hey, a guy in our group has Codes on one bike and Saints on the other and gets along with both so don’t take my word for it! But to answer your question, the short version is that the new Mavens have me looking. The more nuanced answer is that it’s just a combination of factors. My SC Heckler SL came with the new generation Codes and I was pleasantly surprised by the Code Bronzes. Definitely NOT the equivalent of the old base model Code Rs (only tested those in a parking lot, never to touch em again lol). Code BRZs are much better. Very decent power. I think the HS2 rotors are definitely playing a part. Thicker rotors are more robust, and you can feel it when you brake (TRP 2.3s are super stout and rarely bend but can be a pain to line up rub-free at first). That being said, I do wanna upgrade and I find myself Maven-curious. As a 220lbs rider on a bit of a heavier light e-bike, I could use an extra helping of power but need it to be somewhat controllable and not feel like a light switch (looking at you Saints lol). Thats why Sram lever feel with higher power sounds appealing to me. I like the fewer braking events tendency displayed by the testers with them cause I need to learn not to overbrake/ comfort brake and these Mavens might “force” me to forgo braking altogether unless actually necessary. Plus, they use mineral oil just like my DHR Evos. Speaking of which, I also don’t like the stock TRP levers so getting another set comes with the added cost of aftermarket levers whereas I initially get along better with the stock Sram levers. So going with the known quantity of TRP or giving Mavens a try at the risk of being overwhelmed is a question I’ll likely ponder over the winter ;)
@@paradox963 oh wow, I wasn’t even aware of that warranty. Shop I dealt with never even mentionned it. That might just put em back in contention! Ppl would ask me which I preferred between my MT7s and DHR-Evos and I could never pick!HC3 lever was my favorite for sure tho!
Good video guys. The HC3 lever for the magura does not adjust bite point as you state, it changes the leverage for the lever. If you want to adjust the bite point, you need to use the oak components lever.
I’m running Mavens ULT 180mm SRAM HS rotors. Love how I can fly into a high speed turn and slow down why I’m going into the turn. They do need a good brake in period.
Magura MT7 Pro since August 2023 with L.B. style DH levers and Sram HS2 rotors, 2023 Orbea Rise, my dream build. Your dream may be different.💭 I don't ride the speeds like I did back in the day, but I still need great brakes. These are my choice of all that I've tested and absolutely the best I've owned. The stock 8p pads are the only ones I've needed, summer or winter. The lever body is the injection molded CARBOTECTURE SL, carbon fibres and polymer (carbon + plastic). Read the torque specs for the screws, as you should. The callipers are forged one piece, not bolted together CNC jewels. The magnetic pad retention is so much more fun than the Shimano springs are. Prior brake sets owned, most recent to oldest: TRP Quadiem G-Spec on three bike builds, Shimano SLX on two builds, Shimano Deore, 4 piston one build, original Hayes hydraulic circa 2000, late 80's Magura hydraulic rim brakes with post braces. All of these disk brake systems needed to use sintered pads. All used 200 or 203 rotors except in year 2000+, Hayes 180mm/180mm. My old, old XC brakes were hydraulic Magura post-mount rim brakes with ceramic-coated brake tracks on the rims. That setup was probably more expensive than my newest MT7 Pro set up because of the rim/wheel build cost being part of the brake system. Prior to mtb-ing I raced on Moto-X bikes. Those motors were always comparatively similar between manufacturers for power and weight but the brakes were not equal. If it was always about acceleration we wouldn't need brakes.🤣 Ask Arron Gwin or Loïc Bruni.
I clicked on the video without checking how long it is, but it was perfect as I was cooking lunch :) Great video. Sums up a lot of things said on the market lately. One thing was missing is overlaying or comparing side by side the long graphs, you also kinda forgot to show/mention/compare temperatures of Magura and T4. Graphs were big enough for them to be shown more in depth + with some pointers in up/down areas you mention while talking. In general, more data should be shown vs each other to understand what was happening during rides a bit more. All that could be done shown while you talk about a set of brakes. Thank you for your time and effort.
Me too (4 years) MT5’s which to within a whisker, have the same calliper as the MT7. I don’t get on with Codes which I’ve ridden in one form or other for 20 years (I’m not rich…), not least because of the well known piston degradation (no idea about Maven). The plastic lever broke on one side after 3 yrs. Replaced with XT levers both sides (Shigura) and that combo is even more rounded - brings something of the Hope V4 modulation without loosing the Magura power.
Sram is one of the few who sells kits so that you can rebuild your brake and dont spend so much money for someone else to do it. Hayes and Magura have zero replacement for the master cylinder seals.
With Hope you can also get any part you may require individually - even for older, out of production models. So you can keep them running for a long time.
I have Code RSC on my Nukeproof Scout RS replacing the Guides that came with it and I couldn't be happier. I don't understand why the guides even exist to be honest. The reason for this is down to the weather in the UK and running the codes in the winter and the reduced need for maintenance plus how easy they are to maintain, bleed etc is why I run the SRAM on this bike. If the Magura were less fussy I would certainly be running MT5 or even MT7 on this bike for sure. On my Full squish I don't run it in the winter so I don't mind the more convoluted set up and maintenance you get from the MT7 HC3 that it runs. In an ideal world I'd want an alloy brake lever housing and a better clamp that can be easily replaced like you get with the SRAM but as with everything there is probably a reason why it isn't this way. They have improved it with the Gustav from what I can see but its still a way off.
@@themediocremountainbiker_71 I have been eyeing these brakes for awhile and after the Enduro Magazine Review, I am about to pull the trigger. But then I read this videos webpage review of the Hayes and they gave mediocre review. Do you like yours?
Excellent Vid Thanks 😎 I Ride Whistler With My CF Demo8 Run Saints With 223 Trickstuff Rotors and Green ProPads . Next Season Shiguras Saint Levers And MT7 MonoBlocks 223TrickStuff Rotors and Green ProPads GoodTimes Should Be 20days At Least Next Year 😁
What bike is that Jason? Couldn’t figure it out 😄 I love my Magura MT7s w/ Oak levers. Aside from pad rub noise (now adjustable w/ oak lever), I have zero complaints. They made me faster with more confidence in sketchy steeps. But I’m also no pro. This is my second set and also having invested in the service/bleed kit it made my life a lot easier. Waiting for Gustav’s to come to the US 👀… As far as mounting the MT7s, for anyone curious, officially you bottom out one of the clamp bolts so there's no gap, then tighten the other side until your lever doesn't rotate in regular use (but could spin in a crash). I do not recommend using a torque wrench. They need to be tightened by feel. If they keep spinning on smooth alloy or carbon bars you'll need grip paste like finish line fiber grip.
Really love my MT7’s on long race stages you really don’t have the arm pump from braking and speed checks. Very easy lever pull with lots of different blades. They also have adapters for matchmaker or ispec and that makes them a no brainer for me.
I used to use all Magura, but every time went down the levers cracked, snapped, etc. That material is just way too brittle. Now I have Magura calipers and Shimano levers
@ yes that’s potentially a problem. But I ruined an XT as well. Maguras have just been far superior. I haven’t broken a master but I did brake an HC3 lever blade (AL).
@@mtbshredder5719 the touched on it for a second but sram bleeding edge is hard to beat. It’s just so easy to get a perfect bleed if you at least spent 9 seconds watching the parktool bleed vid.
Glad to hear that, i have Mt7 with 220 Magura rotors, finally stopping on a dime!! After 3 years didn't have any issues with levers although smashed them couple of times against rocks as well pretty badly- key is to tighten them pretty light to the bar, so that under force they can actually twist, not break.
I love my Dominions. However, after having the brake pad bolt come loose (i forgot to check it) in Whistler which led to a leaky piston, I realized that I could not get it serviced (other than bled) in Whistler of all places. No more pads or parts anywhere. This availability of parts issue for bike trips is making me consider going back to one of the big two for my travel bike.
Still kinda wild to go MT420 vs MT520 with regular 1-finger lever. I know it is going MSRP initially but looking at the costs these days, perhaps even cheaper than the cheap ones tested.
We wanted to go with the latest and greatest and strongly considered Saints instead of the cheap brake, but with how many World Cup DH racers have switched to XTRs we figured we’d give them a go.
The maven rear break is a pain in the ass when it comes to a break bleed. My bikeshop mechanic said that you have to unmount the rear caliper and just let it hang down. I couldn’t bleed the rear, so i just brought it to a shop
Braking is everything on steep courses. Back in 2000 I had the shimano 4 piston brakes and I made adapters for the calipers to run 10 inch rotors and I loved those brakes
hmm... I've tried MT7 pro and MT5 on few bikes and these always felt spongy. Shimano's felt like having very apparent bite point and less pressure on the lever to reach the desired braking power (so called no modulation, but apparently thats a case for 60kg warriors, not for 100kg dudes like me :D). Srams (guide re's, code r, code rsc's) all happened to cause a lot of hand fatigue for me. Tried Dominions A4's and these felt... as light in operation as shimano's, but more powerful (compared to 6120, 7120 and 8120). However never had an opportunity to test TRP DHR Evo's :~) Considering my weight I have never ridden a brake set which would throw me OTB without putting a truck on the lever, so... still looking for one :D But I think Dominions a4's were the closest to achieve that.
You got a bad bleed with Maguras or bad bed in. Heavy dude here and MT7’s are the only brake I will run. Consistency, Power, control, that combo is on point
the brake tester you are using the data is irrelevant its not a controlled test are you loading the the wheels the same for each test are you leaning over the front more on one test more than the other? your trying to look smart n professional but your really not the only real data that can be taken from this is the force being applied but that too can be iffy as are you pulling the levers the same everytime?
Yes, I normally run them with 200mm front and rear which does help, but to run the Brake Ace sensors I couldnt go any smaller than 220. The delivery of power remains consistent with different rotor sizes but certainly isnt as jarring when sizing down.
how to reduce the play on the levers 5.51 better be the prototype engineer to really have the most of it we better play this game fr ,if you like MTB checkout the new playlist A-X-L nice movie though shout out bimbos ,tbh always stuck in the anthill better get some antbears ,hibernation hibernation its sprring
I ride both Magura and Shigura. Much more satisfied with the latter. I do not like the Magura MT7 lever so Shigura is probably my favorite brake. Considered also the Hayes but the DOT is a dealbreaker. About TRP - I still cannot understand what is the hype about these. I have to say I find nothing special in them.
The sram shimano comparison didn't seem even. Mavens should have been tested against the saints since they're both DH brakes. The mt420s should have been compared against the sram levels for an even budget comparison.
@@TyBrenninger have you considered that SRAM actually makes really good brakes? I know social media told you they were bad but Code RSC and Mavens are fantastic. I don’t even ride sram brakes.
@@MillerRL96sram codes suck ass. Power is not there, modulation decent but modulation without big power is pointless. Especially when you are bigger. I haven’t ridden Mavens yet
the problem with the xtr is the ice tech rotors. buy galfers if you want the XTRs! better yet get an SLX quads and galfer 220 203 rotors, you save money than buying xtr and ice techs!
I dont get it. I paid 300 euro for a set (f and r) of xtr in germany. Also magura is really cheap, bit easier to explain, because they are a german company. Price comparisons seem irrelevant for everyone outside of the USA.
What about LEWIS and HOPE? CNC engineering brakes wipe the floor with mass produced mold metal and plastic maguras. I feel like this is more like an advert for who paid the most..
I had the Shimano 420s on a 2001 San Quentin 3 full build, came with SLX 203mm rotors. The lever feel was heavy, wooden, amd didn't have enough power when you were going faster. They ran really hot down mountains. I found the mineral oil failed quite quickly, turning black. Not sure if that was related to the heat issues? I was also having to straighten the rotors pretty much every big ride. Once I used cheap 3rd party pads and they simply melted and 'smudged' first ride which I am not sure is to do with the heat issues, or just poor quality pads! After replacing the rotors with SRAM HS2 I could keep the rotors straight. Due to lack of total power I changed the levers to Deore servowave and I could use one finger braking finally, and get more power when I needed it, but still not enough. My hands are too big to use these servo-wave 1 finger braking levers though, and I had a couple of QC failures with Deore levers, and a M6120 rear caliper, out of the box. Seems like the seals/bladders were bad out of the factory. Being in China, whilst Shimano components are pretty cheap compared to the west, I have access to a lot more smaller production run brakes. I haven't tried Lewis (TRP clones?) where I have heard of some failed seals from riders, that are strangely being kept quiet online. I've heard via word of mouth. I went with Ronglun RV4 4pot brakes. There are some complaints of leaks, but it might be installation issues with the hose tightening nut, and a flaw with bleeding where you have to wind the lever in before bleeding due to a mechanical design blockage when they're wound out. Initial lever pull play before bite is really long which can get dangerous as they have little modulation in that setup. You pull, pull, pull some more and then the pads bite and your front wheel can go down fast, or you could go OTB (which admittedly isn't that much of a problem anymore with really slack head angles) I found with the RV4 you have to manually progress the pads carefully with the wheel out until you shorten the initial lever pull. Power with these brakes is intense! The levers fit big hands, are 1 finger, although gloveless riders won't like the anti-slip dimples on front of the lever blades. Long-term, I'll give this for the 420s. They have gone on several bikes. Been stripped, resized cables, stored numerous times, never had a problem with reinstalling and they're still as functionally as new (with a sensible cleaning regimen) For riders on a budget they are a long term affordable solution. But if you compare them to the 520, and don't have big hands, you see shortfalls.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
For everyone asking, "where's TRP?" - We asked them and they didn't want to be included in the test.
But what about Hope?
Who cares if they don’t want to be included? Just go buy, borrow, or steal a set. Are you making videos for us riders or for TRP?
So they’re pretty much just telling us that they’re releasing a new brake very soon interesting.
@@brianl.2104 vitalmtb dont like to wear suits ....especially lawsuits
@@brianl.2104 because we'd rather put that effort into acquiring tasty breakfast sandwiches moguls? fwiw, we've had TRP brakes on many a test bike and have reported they've always been top-notch performers.
I wish Hope V4s were in this but still a great review.
Shigura set up is the best for me, can recommend for everyone.
00:00 Intro
00:58 Brake lineup in this test
01:31 Test setup
01:53 Test methodology and data collection
02:46 Scoring/rating/key performance indicators
04:39 Dorky No Gas All Brake lore
05:26 What do you like in a brake?
07:05 Day 1: Sram Maven & Sram Code Ultimate
17:40 Sram Maven brake event graph
19:46 Sram Code brake event graph
21:52 Day 2: Shiman-ooooo XTR & MT420
37:32 XTR brake event graph
39:22 MT420 brake event graph
40:46 Day 3: Magura MT7 & Hayes Dominion T4
55:04 Magura MT7 brake event graph
59:07 Hayes Dominion brake event graph
1:00:12 Wrap-up
Subscribe (to me) if you appreciate these timestamps :)
Thanks, subbed
Day 3 in the edit: Were the Hayes and Magura setup/riding/data shuffled? I was confused when watching the Magura setup at the coffee shop and then seeing Hayes stuff
🙌🏽🙌🏽
Gives this man a cookie! :)
I got rid of different Sram brakes from all my bikes.... the best thing you can do
Second that!
Love sram brakes they feel amazing and basicly maintance free.
Code RSCs are probably the most reliable and best all around brake ever made. They arent the best at anything but they do everything at a pro level and are insanely reliable compared to any other brake. I've had multiple Shimanos, Guides, Code R, and Hayes, Code RSC's are the one brake that I just have no complaints about.
@@ah4598 All the “bad” SRAM brakes I’ve ever ridden were poorly bled ones. Given, bleeding them is a bit tricky but when done right I find them to be bombproof.
I learned to trash SRAM Brakes after I put them on my 2017 build.
Hope should definitely be in this test.
Agree - Tech4-V4 got it all
@@sinterior2626 been using hopes 8 years and 3 years ago changed for magura and i can assume magura beats hope
Yep - got Hope brakes RX4, RX4+, EV4's on four bikes.
Had Code RSCs, and DHR-evos, now on Dominion A4s which are my favorite thus far 🤙🏻
First off, there is no wrong brake. If it works for you then, awesome. Thanks for the testing, you guys seem to put in the work. That said, I know I'm crazy, but I was real happy when Mavens came out. My code r brakes went on sale for 164.00 front and rear. I've been running code r since a year after they came out. I've never felt I've needed anything better, so I haven't. I don't like 10k bikes that's why I run slx or gx drivetrain and my codes.
nothing wrong with a well maintained pair of codes
Been hanging onto mt7s with hc3 for 4 years now all my bikes are outfitted with them never fade no arm pump (bike park or 8hr tech days).
Yes they are fussy to set up and bleed the first couple times but easily figured out. It's Mineral oil so no panic if you brake a line. (pun intended) Best thing I did for my braking and arms. Glad to see how and where they rate against others high and low end brakes. And It's not just in my head. Thanks again boys keep dirt in your treads .
Incredibly well done test! This is how component tests should be done so that both objective and subjective data can be used to highlight the differences 👍
Those set screws on the Hayes caliper are amazing. What an awesome feature.
I have A4s on two of my bikes, the set screws look like a great idea but in all honesty, they are a bit, "meh! so what!"
Great brakes though.
MTB and metal music! My jaw dropped. Such a good pair :D
Would've liked to see the shimano Mt-520s instead, which are a much better lever for not that much more money. I think they better represent what the budget-braker might prefer (i ran them for ages and loved them. Great vid!
MT520s on plain 1.8mm galfer wave 203mm mated with EBC gold pads are absolutely stellar
@@makifrable I've found 2mm rotors to work even better without rubbing issues. Also, for some reason I like the feel of the plastic pistons on the mt420 calipers more than the ceramic on mt520. I always just buy the calipers and pair with slx or xt levers
MT5/MT7 is a really great brake... when it's working properly. I was a big fan of these brakes, and tried to get all my bikes outfitted with them. But Magura has a really big quality control problem. I had multiple sets of MT5 and MT7 that were insanely difficult, if not impossible, to bleed correctly. My last set of Magura had a contamination issue, and I torched the rotors, installed new pads... everything was great until mid way into the ride, the brakes started squealing loudly, and the calipers lost all their braking power. My suspicion is that Magura has an issue with their piston seals in the calipers, minute or trace amounts of mineral oil were bypassing the seals and contaminating the pads and rotors. I also suspect that this piston seal issue also caused my bleeding issues. When the Magura works as designed, bleeding is quick, the power and lever feel is super on point. Eventually switched to the Dominions and have never looked back.
Rad video, thank you for taking the time to test all of the brakes and share your thoughts! Website article is wicked too!
This summer I got a pair of Code RS so hot I made a quick stop an almost set on fire the woods. AT 5 minutes in I was smelling for good my front green Galfer pads,at the end of the 15 min run I had to brake with 2 fingers cos I had no brakes at all. It was the best run of my entire MTB life,best trail ever. Next day my rear brake needed a bleed and new pads.
That bike park is the definition of steep and long trails by a long shot hehehe,perfect to test a brake. Code brakes are not very good in my experience. I would like to try Hope V4 brakes. Very nice video.
It’s because u can’t ride. Overbearing.
You should use original metal pads , they work nice.
Galfer is shit. All organic. Try Sram sintered (bronze carrier).
I ran Code RSC's and then XTR's for years before switching to Shigura (XTR levers, MT7 calipers with Magura rotors) a few years back and it's all I run on all my bikes. Doesn't get much better.
100% agree. Maguras have the best overall feel. Insane you guys did a brake test without TRP in the mix. However, that brake Maas’s me go with the Maguras!
An hour video without chapters?
I added a comment with timestamps now 💆
Not a problem if you watch the whole vid 🤷♂️
@@RiegerTV is a problem if you wanna reference something said in the video to one of your mates :)
Included now
Spoiled child
I actually like my mavens a lot. With different rotor sizes and pads you can adjust the power. So powerful no hard pulls needed. Easy on the hands.
Yeah I like mine too. Getting the lever pull in just the right spot makes a big difference too. You can't have it biting in a position that isn't exactly where you want it.
The data breakdown is really cool. What a great tool.
I don’t get why there is so much hate and polarization over Magura MT7’s.
My mechanic says it’s an easy bleed.
HC3 levers are a must, performance levers suck, I guess many quibbles there, easily broken from online complaints
Bedding took a little while
But shit not 1 problem with them.
As a heavier dude, power, consistency and range of control with the power is amazing.
I recently got a set of MT7's so easy to bleed for me, takes a little bit of fiddling to get set up really nice but power and feel is one of the best I've riden. Heaps of confidence and being 106ish kg it's nice to have that power on tap
Everyone has different opinions and takes on everything I feel like watching comparisons and reviews of other stuff are getting useless.
My Optic came with the MT420 with metallic pads. Didn't like the levers but it was a quick and easy switch to put the 6100 levers (about $60 for the pair) with the 420 calipers, quick bleed and you have a great set of cheap brakes.
I have had Maguras for the last 6 years. I liked the HC3 levers but found them difficult to dial in to my taste. The Loic Bruni lever however is a game changer for my giant hands. All of my bikes, and my son's bikes, have Magura MT8 or MT Trail SL. Once you dial in the bleed they're just brilliant, but I will say getting that perfect bleed can be a challenge.
Little Sidenote to the Mavens: Im a fairly light rider (76kg). Ive set the contact-point in a way so I still have very good modulation. Its possible to have crazy power while still have the modulation.
You can pick up MT7'S for $290 front and rear. They don't have the hc3 levers but Lord Gun has them for around $100 a pair shipped. Have them on all 3 of my bikes. Left XTs and will never go back. 😊
Also worth mentioning. They tested the Maguras on 1.8mm Shimano rotors, which is minimum thickness for Magura brakes. Magura uses 2mm rotors.
I bought them with the HC3 levers 2 years ago for $230 a piece. Looks like they're the same price on Amazon right now. Pretty easy to find deals on them.
@@SpineShank7 in Europe they are discounted to 240€ for a pair since the announcment of the new Magura Gustav brakes
Shigura Saint Levers MT7 s Green ProPads 223 Trickstuff Rotors .Thats for Next Season Whistler 😎
Back when I had more money I got on line for Trickstuff Maxima, then one day they emailed me, long after I had forgotten about them, I got them and learned a painful lesson. Brakes with that much power, like the Mavens need to be tuned to use. I'm sure the Sram guys are grumbling, this should be noted, it's very important. I'm betting you guys could have come up with a set up that made them as trusty as your old Codes only way better. I get that you are testing what comes out of the box, and maybe Sram should consider shipping with organic pads, which is becoming a standard set up for many. This is something product managers need to think about, bikes with Mavens should be shipped with organic pads and certainly never 220, people that need more than that can and will be happy to tune up, they are a minority, unless you happen live someplace like Whistler.
Thanks for the excellent review, you guys do excellent work, the B Practice Pod is one of the most enjoyable things in MTB journalism.
Wo less than 1 minute for hayes… okaaaaayyyy
Loved my Magura MT7 HC3s on my DH bike! Testers description was spot on. The deal breaker for me was when one of the levers started leaking. Rebuild isn’t possible and with a fragile lever (not to say cheap-ish) thats a big downside as you’ll likely have to shell out for a new lever assembly altogether.
Really too bad TRP wasn’t interested in joining. I love my DHR-Evos but thinking of going back to Sram and trying the Mavens on my Heckler SL. Would’ve been an interesting comparison.
Great vid guys!
Interesting! What's making you want to go back?
I've got a Transition Relay with Code R's that I really hate, sold my previous bike with Dominion A4's and run Saints on my Tues and both of those I really love, but I am interested in the TRP DHR Evos
Magura is usually really good about warranty these days!
The no rebuild is a downside, but I’ve had positive experiences dealing with them. Much better than the old days of trying to deal with a certain distributor for Maggie warranty.
I have run MT7-HC3 for years, crashes and beat the shit out of them and never had them leak, but working in a shop I have seen it happen, and the wonderful thing is that Magura has a 5 year no leak guarantee so if you do get a leak they have you covered, much better than the SRAM and Shimano warranty.
@@jonoin35mm98
The thing with the DHRs is they’re basically the opposite of your Saints so I dunno if you’d like em’ lol. They modulate incredibly well but you have to pull harder to get to the bigger power. But hey, a guy in our group has Codes on one bike and Saints on the other and gets along with both so don’t take my word for it!
But to answer your question, the short version is that the new Mavens have me looking.
The more nuanced answer is that it’s just a combination of factors. My SC Heckler SL came with the new generation Codes and I was pleasantly surprised by the Code Bronzes. Definitely NOT the equivalent of the old base model Code Rs (only tested those in a parking lot, never to touch em again lol). Code BRZs are much better. Very decent power. I think the HS2 rotors are definitely playing a part. Thicker rotors are more robust, and you can feel it when you brake (TRP 2.3s are super stout and rarely bend but can be a pain to line up rub-free at first).
That being said, I do wanna upgrade and I find myself Maven-curious. As a 220lbs rider on a bit of a heavier light e-bike, I could use an extra helping of power but need it to be somewhat controllable and not feel like a light switch (looking at you Saints lol). Thats why Sram lever feel with higher power sounds appealing to me. I like the fewer braking events tendency displayed by the testers with them cause I need to learn not to overbrake/ comfort brake and these Mavens might “force” me to forgo braking altogether unless actually necessary. Plus, they use mineral oil just like my DHR Evos. Speaking of which, I also don’t like the stock TRP levers so getting another set comes with the added cost of aftermarket levers whereas I initially get along better with the stock Sram levers.
So going with the known quantity of TRP or giving Mavens a try at the risk of being overwhelmed is a question I’ll likely ponder over the winter ;)
@@paradox963 oh wow, I wasn’t even aware of that warranty. Shop I dealt with never even mentionned it. That might just put em back in contention! Ppl would ask me which I preferred between my MT7s and DHR-Evos and I could never pick!HC3 lever was my favorite for sure tho!
The MT7s are sooo good. The only downside is the maintenance. They can be kind of a pain to bleed.
Good video guys. The HC3 lever for the magura does not adjust bite point as you state, it changes the leverage for the lever. If you want to adjust the bite point, you need to use the oak components lever.
For sure, Oak levers make that brake even better. Helps a bunch to dial in that pad contact!
I’m running Mavens ULT 180mm SRAM HS rotors. Love how I can fly into a high speed turn and slow down why I’m going into the turn. They do need a good brake in period.
Go get some sintered Shimano pads for the XTR and you will be impressed with the power.
Galfer rotors and pads on shimano brakes makes a world of a difference.
Magura MT7 Pro since August 2023 with L.B. style DH levers and Sram HS2 rotors, 2023 Orbea Rise, my dream build.
Your dream may be different.💭
I don't ride the speeds like I did back in the day, but I still need great brakes.
These are my choice of all that I've tested and absolutely the best I've owned. The stock 8p pads are the only ones I've needed, summer or winter. The lever body is the injection molded CARBOTECTURE SL, carbon fibres and polymer (carbon + plastic). Read the torque specs for the screws, as you should. The callipers are forged one piece, not bolted together CNC jewels. The magnetic pad retention is so much more fun than the Shimano springs are.
Prior brake sets owned, most recent to oldest: TRP Quadiem G-Spec on three bike builds, Shimano SLX on two builds, Shimano Deore, 4 piston one build, original Hayes hydraulic circa 2000, late 80's Magura hydraulic rim brakes with post braces. All of these disk brake systems needed to use sintered pads. All used 200 or 203 rotors except in year 2000+, Hayes 180mm/180mm. My old, old XC brakes were hydraulic Magura post-mount rim brakes with ceramic-coated brake tracks on the rims. That setup was probably more expensive than my newest MT7 Pro set up because of the rim/wheel build cost being part of the brake system.
Prior to mtb-ing I raced on Moto-X bikes. Those motors were always comparatively similar between manufacturers for power and weight but the brakes were not equal. If it was always about acceleration we wouldn't need brakes.🤣 Ask Arron Gwin or Loïc Bruni.
I clicked on the video without checking how long it is, but it was perfect as I was cooking lunch :) Great video. Sums up a lot of things said on the market lately.
One thing was missing is overlaying or comparing side by side the long graphs, you also kinda forgot to show/mention/compare temperatures of Magura and T4. Graphs were big enough for them to be shown more in depth + with some pointers in up/down areas you mention while talking. In general, more data should be shown vs each other to understand what was happening during rides a bit more. All that could be done shown while you talk about a set of brakes.
Thank you for your time and effort.
Schroeder is a G, USDH & BpracticePodcast for life💪
Magura mt5 for years. Super happy
Me too (4 years) MT5’s which to within a whisker, have the same calliper as the MT7. I don’t get on with Codes which I’ve ridden in one form or other for 20 years (I’m not rich…), not least because of the well known piston degradation (no idea about Maven). The plastic lever broke on one side after 3 yrs. Replaced with XT levers both sides (Shigura) and that combo is even more rounded - brings something of the Hope V4 modulation without loosing the Magura power.
Sram is one of the few who sells kits so that you can rebuild your brake and dont spend so much money for someone else to do it. Hayes and Magura have zero replacement for the master cylinder seals.
I’ve never needed a master cylinder service on anything but a sram brake lever to be fair.
With Hope you can also get any part you may require individually - even for older, out of production models. So you can keep them running for a long time.
No Hope Tech4 V4's?? :(
No intend and trickstuff too😢
Do you have a set?
I have Code RSC on my Nukeproof Scout RS replacing the Guides that came with it and I couldn't be happier. I don't understand why the guides even exist to be honest. The reason for this is down to the weather in the UK and running the codes in the winter and the reduced need for maintenance plus how easy they are to maintain, bleed etc is why I run the SRAM on this bike. If the Magura were less fussy I would certainly be running MT5 or even MT7 on this bike for sure.
On my Full squish I don't run it in the winter so I don't mind the more convoluted set up and maintenance you get from the MT7 HC3 that it runs. In an ideal world I'd want an alloy brake lever housing and a better clamp that can be easily replaced like you get with the SRAM but as with everything there is probably a reason why it isn't this way. They have improved it with the Gustav from what I can see but its still a way off.
Did you forget to wrap about the Hayes?
I was wondering too. It's what I run and I was curious to see what they had to say
@@themediocremountainbiker_71 I have been eyeing these brakes for awhile and after the Enduro Magazine Review, I am about to pull the trigger. But then I read this videos webpage review of the Hayes and they gave mediocre review. Do you like yours?
Still very happy rocking a pair of Saints and 203mm XT Freeza disks on a full power enduro emtb
missed opportunity to use a control brake pad for all the brakes. im sure galfer makes a pad that fits all brakes in this test.
Excellent Vid Thanks 😎 I Ride Whistler With My CF Demo8 Run Saints With 223 Trickstuff Rotors and Green ProPads . Next Season Shiguras Saint Levers And MT7 MonoBlocks 223TrickStuff Rotors and Green ProPads GoodTimes Should Be 20days At Least Next Year 😁
If you wantvto actually stop, its the front that does the work, rear brakes are for modulation, front are for stopping
Nice review team. Is it possible for guys to try some after-market levers also, i.e., Oak Components levers?
What bike is that Jason? Couldn’t figure it out 😄
I love my Magura MT7s w/ Oak levers. Aside from pad rub noise (now adjustable w/ oak lever), I have zero complaints. They made me faster with more confidence in sketchy steeps. But I’m also no pro. This is my second set and also having invested in the service/bleed kit it made my life a lot easier. Waiting for Gustav’s to come to the US 👀…
As far as mounting the MT7s, for anyone curious, officially you bottom out one of the clamp bolts so there's no gap, then tighten the other side until your lever doesn't rotate in regular use (but could spin in a crash). I do not recommend using a torque wrench. They need to be tightened by feel. If they keep spinning on smooth alloy or carbon bars you'll need grip paste like finish line fiber grip.
I was hoping to see the Gustav Pro tested. Too bad they couldn’t send those over.
Really love my MT7’s on long race stages you really don’t have the arm pump from braking and speed checks. Very easy lever pull with lots of different blades. They also have adapters for matchmaker or ispec and that makes them a no brainer for me.
I used to use all Magura, but every time went down the levers cracked, snapped, etc. That material is just way too brittle. Now I have Magura calipers and Shimano levers
@@garyfuller6553ever tried the HC3 levers? Metal
@ the other part that attaches to the bar is still fiber. I’ve had them with very small cracks that are hard to find. I’m sticking with all metal.
@ yes that’s potentially a problem. But I ruined an XT as well. Maguras have just been far superior. I haven’t broken a master but I did brake an HC3 lever blade (AL).
Would have liked to hear more about how the bleed experience was aswell. as that can be a big thing for us "normal humans"
@@mtbshredder5719 the touched on it for a second but sram bleeding edge is hard to beat. It’s just so easy to get a perfect bleed if you at least spent 9 seconds watching the parktool bleed vid.
Thanks for detail review. 25:37 One misinformation: xtr 4pot caliper is clearly not one piece.
reduced pad deflection, quality pad material, and proper piston matching equals = powerful, yet modulated braking setups. (and proper bedding procedure assumed)
Glad to hear that, i have Mt7 with 220 Magura rotors, finally stopping on a dime!! After 3 years didn't have any issues with levers although smashed them couple of times against rocks as well pretty badly- key is to tighten them pretty light to the bar, so that under force they can actually twist, not break.
I don't have trps therefore i was still able to learn something from this test.
I love my Dominions. However, after having the brake pad bolt come loose (i forgot to check it) in Whistler which led to a leaky piston, I realized that I could not get it serviced (other than bled) in Whistler of all places. No more pads or parts anywhere. This availability of parts issue for bike trips is making me consider going back to one of the big two for my travel bike.
My dominions leaked all season. Word on the street is that warranty can take up to three months unfortunately
I changed the brake levers of my MT7s to Oak Components, a bit expensive, but its the perfect brake for me (95kg)
Still kinda wild to go MT420 vs MT520 with regular 1-finger lever. I know it is going MSRP initially but looking at the costs these days, perhaps even cheaper than the cheap ones tested.
Magura mt7 with xtr leavers and galfer pads and rotors 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
the xtr caliper is two halves bolted together
Why not test the saints? The greatest brakes known to bicycles 😌
We wanted to go with the latest and greatest and strongly considered Saints instead of the cheap brake, but with how many World Cup DH racers have switched to XTRs we figured we’d give them a go.
Shimano Saint
The maven rear break is a pain in the ass when it comes to a break bleed. My bikeshop mechanic said that you have to unmount the rear caliper and just let it hang down. I couldn’t bleed the rear, so i just brought it to a shop
I had no issues like that with mine. Bled them once and they feel great
@ seems like its not always that smooth🤷🏻♂️
TRP?
No TRP no watchy, no thumbs upy.
@@glpf5 frrrr
we asked TRP and they didn't want to be included in the test.
@@vitalmtb oh huh ok
@@vitalmtb That's disappointing.
Enjoyed that.
Braking is everything on steep courses. Back in 2000 I had the shimano 4 piston brakes and I made adapters for the calipers to run 10 inch rotors and I loved those brakes
I really hoped for some back to back times to validate the feel.
Let's goooooo!
Where were Shimano Saints instead of budget Shimanos
Shimano Saints much better compariosn to the Mavens. Sad not see them included.
@DJTmtb822 agree
Wished the TRP DHR Evos were tested.
YO, so I challenged myself to drink one shot every thime someone says "like"
I'm like 40 min ib and i'm pretty wasted dude
Why were the XTR the only ones you tested with Resin pads and not metallic pads like the others??? Would have felt WAAAYYY different!
and where are SAINTS ????
Except the maguras are plastic and break very easily and that's why people do shigura because the levers are fragile
Shimano does make an RT-66 in 220mm.
No saints?
Mr Crow is such an abusive boss, guys don't let him bully you like that.
hmm... I've tried MT7 pro and MT5 on few bikes and these always felt spongy. Shimano's felt like having very apparent bite point and less pressure on the lever to reach the desired braking power (so called no modulation, but apparently thats a case for 60kg warriors, not for 100kg dudes like me :D). Srams (guide re's, code r, code rsc's) all happened to cause a lot of hand fatigue for me. Tried Dominions A4's and these felt... as light in operation as shimano's, but more powerful (compared to 6120, 7120 and 8120). However never had an opportunity to test TRP DHR Evo's :~) Considering my weight I have never ridden a brake set which would throw me OTB without putting a truck on the lever, so... still looking for one :D But I think Dominions a4's were the closest to achieve that.
You got a bad bleed with Maguras or bad bed in.
Heavy dude here and MT7’s are the only brake I will run. Consistency, Power, control, that combo is on point
What brand is the other bike, not the scott??
First thing I've ever done with any bike I've bought with Sram brakes is replace them for anything else.
Understandable if it's not a code rsc or maven
Cold weather testing? That’s where I find “non-dot” fluid brakes fail miserably with a wandering bite point.
the brake tester you are using the data is irrelevant its not a controlled test are you loading the the wheels the same for each test are you leaning over the front more on one test more than the other? your trying to look smart n professional but your really not the only real data that can be taken from this is the force being applied but that too can be iffy as are you pulling the levers the same everytime?
I have the Zees, and they are as good in modulation as my old BD8, idk what people are on
Doesnt sram recomend smaller rotos on the maven to get some of that modulation withough instantly locking up
Yes, I normally run them with 200mm front and rear which does help, but to run the Brake Ace sensors I couldnt go any smaller than 220. The delivery of power remains consistent with different rotor sizes but certainly isnt as jarring when sizing down.
What’s the black and white double BOA shoes???
They are the Fox Union BOA Flat shoes and are on our list of the Best of 2024 Products!
Why not use Zee/Saint brakes?
How can you not test the HopeTech 4 v4?
how to reduce the play on the levers 5.51 better be the prototype engineer to really have the most of it we better play this game fr ,if you like MTB checkout the new playlist A-X-L nice movie though shout out bimbos ,tbh always stuck in the anthill better get some antbears ,hibernation hibernation its sprring
1:10
What rotor is that?
Looks like a Shimano Ice-Tech
Codes are super Powerful? I dont think so.
Tested high-end SRAM brakes but did not include SAINTS for Shimano? hmmm
So you are saying xtr is not high end model from shimano?
The XTR calipers don't look like one piece to me😮🎉
While they are two halves, I understood the “single piece” as they are split in half after machining
shigura
I ride both Magura and Shigura. Much more satisfied with the latter. I do not like the Magura MT7 lever so Shigura is probably my favorite brake. Considered also the Hayes but the DOT is a dealbreaker. About TRP - I still cannot understand what is the hype about these. I have to say I find nothing special in them.
The sram shimano comparison didn't seem even. Mavens should have been tested against the saints since they're both DH brakes. The mt420s should have been compared against the sram levels for an even budget comparison.
Maybe more variety of testers? Not just sram meatriders?
@@TyBrenninger have you considered that SRAM actually makes really good brakes? I know social media told you they were bad but Code RSC and Mavens are fantastic. I don’t even ride sram brakes.
@@MillerRL96 I have Code RSC, i put 2,3mm 203mm TRP rotors & Trickstuff 840 power pads, they're really good & more powerful than the XTR
@@SylvainProov I’m using Hope Tech v4 now but I’m a really big fan of Code RSC with the HS2 rotors. Such a consistent feel.
@@SylvainProovI will have to eventually try this setup on my code silver stealths.
@@MillerRL96sram codes suck ass. Power is not there, modulation decent but modulation without big power is pointless. Especially when you are bigger. I haven’t ridden Mavens yet
the problem with the xtr is the ice tech rotors. buy galfers if you want the XTRs! better yet get an SLX quads and galfer 220 203 rotors, you save money than buying xtr and ice techs!
I dont get it. I paid 300 euro for a set (f and r) of xtr in germany. Also magura is really cheap, bit easier to explain, because they are a german company. Price comparisons seem irrelevant for everyone outside of the USA.
What about LEWIS and HOPE? CNC engineering brakes wipe the floor with mass produced mold metal and plastic maguras. I feel like this is more like an advert for who paid the most..
I had the Shimano 420s on a 2001 San Quentin 3 full build, came with SLX 203mm rotors. The lever feel was heavy, wooden, amd didn't have enough power when you were going faster. They ran really hot down mountains. I found the mineral oil failed quite quickly, turning black. Not sure if that was related to the heat issues?
I was also having to straighten the rotors pretty much every big ride. Once I used cheap 3rd party pads and they simply melted and 'smudged' first ride which I am not sure is to do with the heat issues, or just poor quality pads! After replacing the rotors with SRAM HS2 I could keep the rotors straight. Due to lack of total power I changed the levers to Deore servowave and I could use one finger braking finally, and get more power when I needed it, but still not enough. My hands are too big to use these servo-wave 1 finger braking levers though, and I had a couple of QC failures with Deore levers, and a M6120 rear caliper, out of the box. Seems like the seals/bladders were bad out of the factory.
Being in China, whilst Shimano components are pretty cheap compared to the west, I have access to a lot more smaller production run brakes. I haven't tried Lewis (TRP clones?) where I have heard of some failed seals from riders, that are strangely being kept quiet online. I've heard via word of mouth.
I went with Ronglun RV4 4pot brakes. There are some complaints of leaks, but it might be installation issues with the hose tightening nut, and a flaw with bleeding where you have to wind the lever in before bleeding due to a mechanical design blockage when they're wound out. Initial lever pull play before bite is really long which can get dangerous as they have little modulation in that setup. You pull, pull, pull some more and then the pads bite and your front wheel can go down fast, or you could go OTB (which admittedly isn't that much of a problem anymore with really slack head angles) I found with the RV4 you have to manually progress the pads carefully with the wheel out until you shorten the initial lever pull. Power with these brakes is intense! The levers fit big hands, are 1 finger, although gloveless riders won't like the anti-slip dimples on front of the lever blades.
Long-term, I'll give this for the 420s. They have gone on several bikes. Been stripped, resized cables, stored numerous times, never had a problem with reinstalling and they're still as functionally as new (with a sensible cleaning regimen) For riders on a budget they are a long term affordable solution. But if you compare them to the 520, and don't have big hands, you see shortfalls.
So i guess the hayes was the worst?