When Marx goes for "Hitler dropped your name in Mein Kampf" in his first verse, it wasn't just that Ford spoke highly of Hitler. It was that Ford had published so many antisemitic articles that Hitler referred to him as one of the greatest men in America IN MEIN KAMPF. He literally name dropped Ford in his antisemitic magnum opus
@@gamingjamie9415”What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. … Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man-and turns them into commodities. … The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. … The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.” - Karl Marx The Jewish [n-word] Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. - Karl Marx Feel free to fact check these.
What was he suppose to live as a communist in a system that wasn't build for it? Thats like complaining a socialist use capitalism to earn money, in a capitalist system... also who ain't a hypocrite? You throw the first stone.
I think Marx took it, he had a rebuttal for every hard bar ford threw at him. Ford says Stalin and Mao backed him, then gets hit with the hitler namedrop bar. Ford says his beliefs killed many, he rebuttals saying that ford killed his workers through his factories and during the march, ford brings up jennies, marx brings up fords mom dying. Ford brings up Karls ideology hypocrisy, and Karl tells him you were takin it too. Not only did Karl hit solid rebuttals but also hit ford with some crazy punches, especially on the last verse. Not to mention Karl had crazy wordplay and puns, whereas ford had more playground insult bars, which arent my favorite. I especially like the last Karl bar where he says leave a FORD where you would find it Found On Road Dead, the double play is really good.
I think this is a spectacularly fair battle, but I must say, about your reasoning, Stalin and Mao individually killed far more people than either Hitler or (obviously) Ford. Holding Ford responsible for the murder of his protestors was definitely a stronger line.
Common misconception: Ford was not the man behind the model T. Countless engineers, consultants, analysts, and workers are forgotten for every undoubtedly monumentous advancement in production - no CEO works alone. If they did, they wouldnt have a conoany.
He was, however, the man behind the -engine- in the Model T (and most models before and after). The man was an incredible engineer, but not quite as good a businessman (or moral human being, for that sake).
Ford gave workers a better wage than normal but as Karl said he controlled what they could eat,drink and eat, if you didn't live your life like Ford wanted you didn't get the high wage, Frod sent investigators at your house and you were forced to let them in and search your house for alcohol and other things.
Besides the first verse, I think Marx took the latter 2. Plus he kind of rebuttaled the hypocrite line, by saying that both he (Marx) and Engels gave everything to their cause. And I'm pretty positive the line were Marx says he pawned his own pants is true
In additional defense with this rebuttal. It is incredibly difficult to change the world based solely on ideology. If nothing else, money helps spread your message. Hard to change a world run by money if you have none.
People seem to overlook him being a staunch materialist, he wasn't as much a utopian as people depict him to be. Materialist in the philiosophical sense, meaning material exists before ideas. Also I think Engels literally wrote "Socialism, Utopian amd Scientific" @@brianfite4740
Not only that it’s kind of a dumb criticism to say because someone participated in capitalism when society made that the only way to survive that their criticisms of it are somehow hypocritical. Like I and many others think privatized healthcare is a massive inneffecuant scam that kills tons of people compared to nationalized care other counties employ and yet I pay for private health insurance becuase my options are that or don’t have the ability to afford a doctor.
the part about the wages- henry ford had to pay his workers a higher wage than what was normal at the time, because the conditions were so bad in his factories. he had a lot of turnover with people attracted to the high pay, then realizing it wasn't worth it and leaving
But also those wages allowed his emplyees to buy a car taking back part of those money indirectly and that allowed to reach the critical mass of sales to make the new production profitable because an assembly line factory to be profitable needs 3-400K sales per year iirc Otherwise car producion wouldn't had that technology leap.
They both took great shots, but... well, at the end of the day Marx won. Ford was making some good points, but his insults were generally weak. "Ah, ha! You're smelly, homeless, and poor!" was about half of his verses. Marx straight up murdered him in the last verse.
Henry ford took the credit for what little worker benefits he had in his company, but in truth each one of them were hard fought for by the worker unions.
Karl's last verse really sealed his win for me. A lot of Ford's attacks were very shallow and lacking in substance. Also Extra Credits History did a series on Ford recently, he was VERY controlling of his workers as well as very violent in suppressing unions.
Marx certainly took this, also he was not hypocritical to ask Engels for money. Engels was a capitalist in the lowest form of the term as he believed quite freely in communism or he would not have supported Karl. A better system that Engels also advocated for which would have given far more money from him and other upper class to the workers.
Something i haven't seen anyone catch yet: the "Which side you are on" bar is also a reference to a famous pro-union song, "Which side are you on?" Unions were often labeled as communist. "Come all you good workers, good news to you I'll tell of how the good ol' Union has come in here to dwell. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on? My daddy was a miner and I'm a miners son, and I'll stick with the union till every battle's won. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on? They say in Harlan County, there are no neutrals there. You'll either be a union man or a thug for JH Blair. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on? Workers, can you stand it? O, tell me how you can! Will you be a lousy scab, or will you be a man? Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on? Don't scab for the bosses, don't listen to their lies, us poor folk haven't got a chance unless we organize. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?"
"Your lines are bread" is reference to starvation and poor economic management of the USSR. (i.e. bread lines) There are a lot of words in this ERB. I was wondering which reactor would come across my RUclips feed first, congratulations!.
The “your lines are bread” line in Ford’s first verse is referring to the bread lines in the USSR where people would go downtown wherever they lived every morning and they would stand in line with a ticket to get a government-issued loaf of bread, and also the co-author of the Communist Manifesto was Frederich Engels
9:22 You are one of the few reactors that I've seen that caught that. That Marx did not have a place to stay because they didn't like his writing. It was Ford's earlier line "for a man whose stateless, You got an awful lot to say"
The "Auchwitz side are you on" bad just clicked- there's a union song by the name "Which side are you on?" which appeals to the listener to show solidarity, so referring that whilst calling back to Ford's fascist sympathies? Nice
The hypocrite line isn't that good if you know that Marx said that Capitalism is the start of the communist transformation process needed in a country in order to establish a communist state
Btw, idk who else pointed this out. But Ford did mention, albeit very briefly, about Marx being unable to keep a home anywhere. 'For a man stateless you got an awful lot to say'
Marx rebutted nearly everything Ford said about him, from supposed hypocrisy to Stalin to negligent parenting. Marx and Engels' partnership was no secret; Marxists have never had a problem with bourgeois class traitors being part of revolution. Ford is using a Kantian logic against a Hegelian. No matter your views on the USSR, Marx's posthumous relationship with Stalin is far less tangible than Ford's with Hitler. Marx fully admits his alcoholism here and shows that while he was perhaps negligent with his children, Ford was actively abusive to his despite having far, far more resources. Ford didn't respond to the Nazi accusations, the violent suppression of striking workers or really anything Marx said about him. All he's left with in the end are dad jokes and Marx smelling bad. Even the most virulent anti-communist would have to admit Marx had this in the bag.
The one line that you missed the reference to was Henry Ford saying "You're not hot, Karl/That's just shit on your chest" is because a "Hot Carl" is a sexual act where one partner takes Saran Wrap (or in extreme cases nothing at all) and proceeds to defecate on their lover's chest. Yeah that would have had you RECOILING HARD if you had caught it.
Among the many reasons why I think that Marx won this battle is this: Ford attacked Marx for his philosophical legacy, which isn't necessarily something that Marx could have controlled. Marx saw class inequality all around him and wanted to change it... it's just that his words were eventually co-opted and twisted by dictators to fit their agendas. Heck, it could even be argued that we've never actually _seen_ real communism; it's always something so much uglier used as a tool to keep total control within dictatorial regimes. Meanwhile, on the other side of this battle, Marx attacked Ford for things that Ford himself actually did or said during his lifetime. To me, that's a much more effective strategy in this kind of battle. To give any points to Ford we first have to get in a giant debate over whether or not Marx's ideals were in fact the blueprint for communism as we've seen it implemented. But with Ford, well, he just straight-up was an antisemitic businessman who ruthlessly abused his workers. For me, the winner is an easy choice. Marx.
Something that is interesting to me about this battle specifically is that if you look at what they're saying both are using capitalist and communist talking points still used to this day to try to discredit the other.
Making fun of Karl Marx for being broke never made much sense. He is the greatest example of someone being forced into poverty because no one would employ him due to their opposition to his ideas. He was annexed by several countries which made it impossible for him to earn a living. We advocate for freedom of speech yet Marx is the example of what can happen when the ruling class silences your opinions.
Marx absolutely won this. Ford only was really able to say "hey, you smell, look ugly, have a medical condition, and are a hypocrite" marx, not only rebutted the hypocrite line saying it was necessary to start the entire marxism movement, but talked about how ford was openly lauded by Hitler, ran factories to support the nazis, spied on his workers, directly controlled their lives, murdered people when they didn't like him, directly caused pollution to grow to the scale of today, gave 0 care for the people who worked under him, and plenty more. Ford was a spoon fed rich kid who grew up dictating what everyone under him did, and not just openly, but actively supported the nazis. the newspaper he mentioned was literally a Nazi propaganda newspaper released in the united states telling people how the nazis were actually right. He offered to support the nazis with his german factories before the war even really started, while simultaneously fighting the US government about how he has no obligation to support the US war effort. He literally kept a picture of hitler in his office. edzel was his son, who ford made the ceo of his company specifically so that while ford was making the decisions through edzel, edzel would be the one blamed for anything bad that happened. He overworked, abused, and manipulated his son so much that the stress gave him stomach cancer which ultimately killed him. Henry Ford is one of the single biggest villains in the history of the world, and many of the problems we have even today stem all the way back to his practices, policies, and individuals he supported
Interesting misconception that's seen a lot is; Marx didn't hate capitalism. He in fact praised it as one of the better means of developing an industrial base for a nation and the wealth it could generate. He simply pointed out that it's good *in the short term*. Late-stage capitalism, or unregulated capitalism, is incredibly dangerous and why we see the frankly insane degree of wealth distribution to the top 1% we see today. The hypocrisy line kinda falls short for me because of that. After all, his ideas were literally based on the concept of "Once we have the industry, how to we move to something better for everyone?" Communism as it is popularly known today, especially in the US, isn't even an invention of Marx. The man never outright described how a society like it ought to look or function, the Soviet and Chinese model were based on Lenin's writing and Stalin and Mao interpretations of Lenin's work, which admittedly was based on Marx, but not something he invented. It's basically the same as lambasting Marie Curie, a major figure in the discovery of radioactive elements, for the Atomic bomb since without her no one would have theorized its existence (Lenin in this analogy) and its use and creation (the americans during WW2). Great vid tho, always love your reactions since you actually put a little research into the topic first which... way too few people do. ERB is all about the history, research is the basis for almost every bar!
Nah Ford got his ass kicked. For one Mao and Pol pot where awful but to pretend the genocides they led had anything to do with Marx’s teachings reveals a complete lack of knowledge on what Marx fought for where as Ford openly and happily loved Hitler and vice versa. As for Fords criticism of Marx taking money from a capitalist that’s also extremely dumb because Marx’s proposed changes would make that unnecessary but since he was living in a capitalist system he of course had to use capitalism to survive so it’s hardly a diss. Ie a person might say advocate for universal healthcare while paying for privatized insurance. This isn’t hypocritical because national healthcare in the U.S. isn’t a thing for most people meaning your options UNTIL it’s implemented are to be able to afford a doctor via playing along with the existing privatized system or suffer through injury and illness. Calling that hypocritical is idiotic.
@@whatitdodavein my opinion, i think you should do what some other channels do and listen to an entire verse at once in order to get the full impact of it and then go back and break down each bar
@@1nn1tmate Thanks for the advice. But I already tried that back when I was first starting out. Problem is, nobody sticks around for that breakdown part, which hurts my viewer retention. It works for some reactors, not me.
@@Gustav_Kuriga If you think that was my point, you obviously can’t think critically. I’m saying people are picking winners for no other reason than the characters represent their ideology, not because of the character’s actual performances. Bias is the problem I’m addressing, since ideology shouldn’t matter when you’re critiquing a rap battle. Henry Ford won because his lines had better flow and rhythm, plus clever word-play and rhymes. What they actually did in real-world history is irrelevant. Idgaf about their ideologies, I’m reviewing their performance objectively.
@@bsgfan1 And I'm saying that if you're going to completely divorce the actual lines from their meaning, you shouldn't be judging rap battles, because the meaning of what is being said is just as important as the rhythm. This is especially true because it is EXTREMELY relevant when it comes to wordplay. A rap battle isn't just who can purely rap better, but who can counter their opponents points while also burying their opponent in put downs. If you divorce lyrics from meaning and context, then they might as well be rapping about food and making wordplay based on that, it would be just as valid according to you. Henry Ford could have completely ignored Karl Marx and talked about hamburgers in paradise by your logic. Music, rap especially, derives its impact from the topic it is speaking of just as much as the technical feats of the musician. "When I'm Gone" by Eminem wouldn't hit as hard as it does if the topic of the song were how incredibly good Eminem is. It's impact is DIRECTLY derived from Eminem speaking of how much pain he has caused his daughter and ex. It isn't as technically accomplished as "Rap God", but technique and word-play are tools for enhancing the song. You use them as they are needed, not just because you can. Making it as technically accomplished as "Rap God" would take away almost entirely from the impact of the song, because all that impact is tied up in its meaning. Furthermore, I'm going to have to back that up by pointing out an actual rapper (Knox) gave the win to Karl Marx as well. TL;DR Shut the fuck up about "ideology". The entire battle is centered around ideology. That's literally the point in having Karl Marx and Henry Ford battle it out. Divorcing their raps from that meaning makes the choice of persona battling it out entirely meaningless, and judging it as such is what a stupid person would do.
@@bsgfan1so your logic is that a rap battle means that you remove the meaning of lyrics and their real world applications and only go on flow and wordplay? Seriously?
Ok, since I see all the comments swarmed with people who think that Marx won, I gotta step up. I'm a history buff and feel that Ford came on top this time. Marx's punchlines were built on too many half-truths.
well it is rap battle not history lesson, if only thing you focus on is history facts and not rap itself then it is expectable to have wrong opinion. maybe you are right and marx used more half-truths but he used them to obliterate and humiliate ford in rap battle. all ford can say is "i lost but at least i stayed true to my facts" but he still lost
So Henry Ford didn't produce weapons and equipment for Nazi Germany, and didn't have his own newspaper he forced on workers that was incredibly anti-Semitic?
nah man Ford’s punches were too weak. Most of his lines consisted of mocking Marx for being poor and smelling bad, but he did have some good ones. Marx got him bad calling out his Nazi support and Mein Kamf reference, his abusing and sabotaging his only kid, his being a horrible boss and the horrid factory conditions, and especially the Ford massacres
To answer all the responses: No. My opinion is not wrong. It's a rap battle, not math. Who won is subjective, that's the magic of it. If every outcome of ERBs was predetermined, it wouldn't be that much fun now, would it? I merely stated my opinion and why I have it, since I felt it was fair to have both sides of the coin express themselves. Arguments that Marx had better punches won't work, I know what he said, I do speak English, and still stand by my opinion.
Karl Marx burned the soul out of him. Henry Ford win this? He all about how Karl poor and not clean. While Karl roast every single thing in Ford. And also does the famous line. "Found On Road Dead" :D A dead body can't win when massacred down... XD You missed the whole Battle bro. XD
![[REACTION] ERB - Henry Ford Vs Karl Marx](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/awJhmd_3ntM/mqdefault.jpg)
When Marx goes for "Hitler dropped your name in Mein Kampf" in his first verse, it wasn't just that Ford spoke highly of Hitler. It was that Ford had published so many antisemitic articles that Hitler referred to him as one of the greatest men in America IN MEIN KAMPF. He literally name dropped Ford in his antisemitic magnum opus
Even if he hadn't rebutted the hypocrite line, "hypocrite" is not as hard as "fascist, antisemitic, polluter."
Which is weird because Marx was also a racist and an antisemite
@@RJ_Co.He wasn't but go on.
@@gamingjamie9415look up his letters to Engels
@@gamingjamie9415”What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. … Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man-and turns them into commodities. … The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. … The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.”
- Karl Marx
The Jewish [n-word] Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation.
- Karl Marx
Feel free to fact check these.
What was he suppose to live as a communist in a system that wasn't build for it? Thats like complaining a socialist use capitalism to earn money, in a capitalist system... also who ain't a hypocrite? You throw the first stone.
I think Marx took it, he had a rebuttal for every hard bar ford threw at him. Ford says Stalin and Mao backed him, then gets hit with the hitler namedrop bar. Ford says his beliefs killed many, he rebuttals saying that ford killed his workers through his factories and during the march, ford brings up jennies, marx brings up fords mom dying. Ford brings up Karls ideology hypocrisy, and Karl tells him you were takin it too. Not only did Karl hit solid rebuttals but also hit ford with some crazy punches, especially on the last verse. Not to mention Karl had crazy wordplay and puns, whereas ford had more playground insult bars, which arent my favorite. I especially like the last Karl bar where he says leave a FORD where you would find it Found On Road Dead, the double play is really good.
I think this is a spectacularly fair battle, but I must say, about your reasoning, Stalin and Mao individually killed far more people than either Hitler or (obviously) Ford. Holding Ford responsible for the murder of his protestors was definitely a stronger line.
not readin allat
@@bxnnx.judging by your vocabulary, doesn't look like it was something that she could understand anyway😂
@@angelrivera7546 whos she?
lonely and iliterate, best combination@@bxnnx.
Common misconception: Ford was not the man behind the model T. Countless engineers, consultants, analysts, and workers are forgotten for every undoubtedly monumentous advancement in production - no CEO works alone. If they did, they wouldnt have a conoany.
He was, however, the man behind the -engine- in the Model T (and most models before and after). The man was an incredible engineer, but not quite as good a businessman (or moral human being, for that sake).
Ford gave workers a better wage than normal but as Karl said he controlled what they could eat,drink and eat, if you didn't live your life like Ford wanted you didn't get the high wage, Frod sent investigators at your house and you were forced to let them in and search your house for alcohol and other things.
Besides the first verse, I think Marx took the latter 2. Plus he kind of rebuttaled the hypocrite line, by saying that both he (Marx) and Engels gave everything to their cause. And I'm pretty positive the line were Marx says he pawned his own pants is true
In additional defense with this rebuttal. It is incredibly difficult to change the world based solely on ideology. If nothing else, money helps spread your message. Hard to change a world run by money if you have none.
@@brianfite4740 true. every author needs a sponsor.
People seem to overlook him being a staunch materialist, he wasn't as much a utopian as people depict him to be. Materialist in the philiosophical sense, meaning material exists before ideas. Also I think Engels literally wrote "Socialism, Utopian amd Scientific" @@brianfite4740
@@brianfite4740yup
Not only that it’s kind of a dumb criticism to say because someone participated in capitalism when society made that the only way to survive that their criticisms of it are somehow hypocritical. Like I and many others think privatized healthcare is a massive inneffecuant scam that kills tons of people compared to nationalized care other counties employ and yet I pay for private health insurance becuase my options are that or don’t have the ability to afford a doctor.
the part about the wages- henry ford had to pay his workers a higher wage than what was normal at the time, because the conditions were so bad in his factories. he had a lot of turnover with people attracted to the high pay, then realizing it wasn't worth it and leaving
But also those wages allowed his emplyees to buy a car taking back part of those money indirectly and that allowed to reach the critical mass of sales to make the new production profitable because an assembly line factory to be profitable needs 3-400K sales per year iirc Otherwise car producion wouldn't had that technology leap.
@@Dlmc85 that's great for car sales, not really all that great for the worker's conditions...
@@Lilly-fh7re i agree, i was jus expanding on one of the reason the pay was high and it wasn't (who would have guessed?) to benefit the worker
He also had people spy on his workers like he's the chinese government.
They both took great shots, but... well, at the end of the day Marx won.
Ford was making some good points, but his insults were generally weak. "Ah, ha! You're smelly, homeless, and poor!" was about half of his verses. Marx straight up murdered him in the last verse.
Henry ford took the credit for what little worker benefits he had in his company, but in truth each one of them were hard fought for by the worker unions.
Karl's last verse really sealed his win for me. A lot of Ford's attacks were very shallow and lacking in substance.
Also Extra Credits History did a series on Ford recently, he was VERY controlling of his workers as well as very violent in suppressing unions.
meh
@@bxnnx.L
EXTRA CREDITS MENTIONED!!!!!
so glad they dropped again, and they apparently said they're working on the next few battles too, so hype
Marx certainly took this, also he was not hypocritical to ask Engels for money. Engels was a capitalist in the lowest form of the term as he believed quite freely in communism or he would not have supported Karl. A better system that Engels also advocated for which would have given far more money from him and other upper class to the workers.
“Dung from a Taurus”
Literally bill shit 😆
Appreciate the research you did for this one Dave, always love your reactions!
~_~
He's not a hypocrite, Engels was a communist too lol
Something i haven't seen anyone catch yet: the "Which side you are on" bar is also a reference to a famous pro-union song, "Which side are you on?" Unions were often labeled as communist.
"Come all you good workers, good news to you I'll tell of how the good ol' Union has come in here to dwell.
Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
My daddy was a miner and I'm a miners son, and I'll stick with the union till every battle's won. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
They say in Harlan County, there are no neutrals there.
You'll either be a union man or a thug for JH Blair. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
Workers, can you stand it? O, tell me how you can! Will you be a lousy scab, or will you be a man? Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
Don't scab for the bosses, don't listen to their lies, us poor folk haven't got a chance unless we organize. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?"
Marx won this for me tbh Ford took the first round but mark clapped back in the final 2
Nah I gotta disagree on this one Marx absolutely destroyed him.
Marx straight cooked Ford. Not a single bad line.
Damn, you hit this QUICK! I was happy as hell to see ERB pop in my notifications.
Anti-Septicism is something we can all get behind. Sepsis is awful
😂
"Your lines are bread" is reference to starvation and poor economic management of the USSR. (i.e. bread lines)
There are a lot of words in this ERB. I was wondering which reactor would come across my RUclips feed first, congratulations!.
Dung from a Taurus = excrement from a bull = bullsh*t
ERB is back again with another banger! Great reaction btw
We had to wait a year but it was worth it. This was one of the best battles they made.
This feels like a classic ERB and one of the best in a long time
@@connorbosley4431 absolutely. Though most of the last ones were pretty solid.
The “your lines are bread” line in Ford’s first verse is referring to the bread lines in the USSR where people would go downtown wherever they lived every morning and they would stand in line with a ticket to get a government-issued loaf of bread, and also the co-author of the Communist Manifesto was Frederich Engels
ERB really came back with the heavy hands, didnt they? it was such a delight to see this in my feed yesterday.
Oh yeah. These raps were rated E for Everyone.
E as in everyone should enjoy them, but definitely not the rap itself, that is T for Teen AT LEAST lol@@InstrucTube
9:22 You are one of the few reactors that I've seen that caught that. That Marx did not have a place to stay because they didn't like his writing. It was Ford's earlier line "for a man whose stateless, You got an awful lot to say"
Nah, sorry matey. Marx destroyed Ford so bad in this battle
you could say Karl Marxed his Territory 😅
The "Auchwitz side are you on" bad just clicked- there's a union song by the name "Which side are you on?" which appeals to the listener to show solidarity, so referring that whilst calling back to Ford's fascist sympathies? Nice
for histprical refrence the ford riots is what to look up about ford workers striking and them and the cops got into a gun fight.
Weren't the workers literally unarmed, and shot in cold blood by both the cops and Ford's security forces?
The hypocrite line isn't that good if you know that Marx said that Capitalism is the start of the communist transformation process needed in a country in order to establish a communist state
The Model T wasnt his first produced car, that was the Model A. The Model T was the most successful of his cars though
Btw, idk who else pointed this out. But Ford did mention, albeit very briefly, about Marx being unable to keep a home anywhere. 'For a man stateless you got an awful lot to say'
Man got his reaction out before Scru, nicely done
If I was a full time RUclipsr, I’d have my reactions up before everybody haha.
As a historian who got all of those bars, let me tell you: this was SAVAGE!
Marx rebutted nearly everything Ford said about him, from supposed hypocrisy to Stalin to negligent parenting.
Marx and Engels' partnership was no secret; Marxists have never had a problem with bourgeois class traitors being part of revolution. Ford is using a Kantian logic against a Hegelian.
No matter your views on the USSR, Marx's posthumous relationship with Stalin is far less tangible than Ford's with Hitler.
Marx fully admits his alcoholism here and shows that while he was perhaps negligent with his children, Ford was actively abusive to his despite having far, far more resources.
Ford didn't respond to the Nazi accusations, the violent suppression of striking workers or really anything Marx said about him. All he's left with in the end are dad jokes and Marx smelling bad.
Even the most virulent anti-communist would have to admit Marx had this in the bag.
2:20 No no, Mao and Stalin are considered the deadliest people in history.
Ford tore marx apart first round. Marx slightly took round 2, 3rd round was marx by a mile.
I was holding you hopped on this!! What it do dave
Missed these reactions man
The one line that you missed the reference to was Henry Ford saying "You're not hot, Karl/That's just shit on your chest" is because a "Hot Carl" is a sexual act where one partner takes Saran Wrap (or in extreme cases nothing at all) and proceeds to defecate on their lover's chest. Yeah that would have had you RECOILING HARD if you had caught it.
I could've gone my whole life without knowing that! 🤮
Henry started the 5 day work Schedule and started paying his workers a minimum wage, also if u haven't watch till the end and you'll see godzilla
As well as a few others.
Among the many reasons why I think that Marx won this battle is this:
Ford attacked Marx for his philosophical legacy, which isn't necessarily something that Marx could have controlled. Marx saw class inequality all around him and wanted to change it... it's just that his words were eventually co-opted and twisted by dictators to fit their agendas. Heck, it could even be argued that we've never actually _seen_ real communism; it's always something so much uglier used as a tool to keep total control within dictatorial regimes.
Meanwhile, on the other side of this battle, Marx attacked Ford for things that Ford himself actually did or said during his lifetime. To me, that's a much more effective strategy in this kind of battle. To give any points to Ford we first have to get in a giant debate over whether or not Marx's ideals were in fact the blueprint for communism as we've seen it implemented. But with Ford, well, he just straight-up was an antisemitic businessman who ruthlessly abused his workers. For me, the winner is an easy choice. Marx.
4:38 Mein Kampf was basically Hitlers plan
It was actually his diary he wrote during his time in prison
If you think ford won you didnt pay attention or know nothing about the history. Marx took this and this was not even remotely close
Regardless, this battle was indeed epic.
Oh Medieval Peasant, you complain about Feudalism, but you actively participate as a SERF in Feudalism!
Marx W
One thing I hoped for this ERB to mention that they didn't (becaue of the huge irony): To visit Karl Marx's Grave you have to pay an entrance fee
I don't remember ordering a yappycchino bro pausing right in the middle of great verses
That’s my reaction style homie. Gotta give some insight into what I’m thinking, that’s the whole point of a reaction video.
@@whatitdodave I guess that's fair enough but like why pause in the middle of a great verse it just ruins it
marx won clearly
Something that is interesting to me about this battle specifically is that if you look at what they're saying both are using capitalist and communist talking points still used to this day to try to discredit the other.
Tbf, to my knowledge Engels wasn't really a capitalist, but moreso had a managerial position in the factory his father owned.
Tauras also means bull. So he was calling it bullshit.
What it do Dave
I hope you good
Hi dave
Making fun of Karl Marx for being broke never made much sense. He is the greatest example of someone being forced into poverty because no one would employ him due to their opposition to his ideas. He was annexed by several countries which made it impossible for him to earn a living. We advocate for freedom of speech yet Marx is the example of what can happen when the ruling class silences your opinions.
Marx absolutely won this. Ford only was really able to say "hey, you smell, look ugly, have a medical condition, and are a hypocrite"
marx, not only rebutted the hypocrite line saying it was necessary to start the entire marxism movement, but talked about how ford was openly lauded by Hitler, ran factories to support the nazis, spied on his workers, directly controlled their lives, murdered people when they didn't like him, directly caused pollution to grow to the scale of today, gave 0 care for the people who worked under him, and plenty more.
Ford was a spoon fed rich kid who grew up dictating what everyone under him did, and not just openly, but actively supported the nazis. the newspaper he mentioned was literally a Nazi propaganda newspaper released in the united states telling people how the nazis were actually right. He offered to support the nazis with his german factories before the war even really started, while simultaneously fighting the US government about how he has no obligation to support the US war effort. He literally kept a picture of hitler in his office.
edzel was his son, who ford made the ceo of his company specifically so that while ford was making the decisions through edzel, edzel would be the one blamed for anything bad that happened. He overworked, abused, and manipulated his son so much that the stress gave him stomach cancer which ultimately killed him.
Henry Ford is one of the single biggest villains in the history of the world, and many of the problems we have even today stem all the way back to his practices, policies, and individuals he supported
Interesting misconception that's seen a lot is; Marx didn't hate capitalism. He in fact praised it as one of the better means of developing an industrial base for a nation and the wealth it could generate. He simply pointed out that it's good *in the short term*. Late-stage capitalism, or unregulated capitalism, is incredibly dangerous and why we see the frankly insane degree of wealth distribution to the top 1% we see today. The hypocrisy line kinda falls short for me because of that. After all, his ideas were literally based on the concept of "Once we have the industry, how to we move to something better for everyone?" Communism as it is popularly known today, especially in the US, isn't even an invention of Marx. The man never outright described how a society like it ought to look or function, the Soviet and Chinese model were based on Lenin's writing and Stalin and Mao interpretations of Lenin's work, which admittedly was based on Marx, but not something he invented. It's basically the same as lambasting Marie Curie, a major figure in the discovery of radioactive elements, for the Atomic bomb since without her no one would have theorized its existence (Lenin in this analogy) and its use and creation (the americans during WW2).
Great vid tho, always love your reactions since you actually put a little research into the topic first which... way too few people do. ERB is all about the history, research is the basis for almost every bar!
Nah Ford got his ass kicked. For one Mao and Pol pot where awful but to pretend the genocides they led had anything to do with Marx’s teachings reveals a complete lack of knowledge on what Marx fought for where as Ford openly and happily loved Hitler and vice versa.
As for Fords criticism of Marx taking money from a capitalist that’s also extremely dumb because Marx’s proposed changes would make that unnecessary but since he was living in a capitalist system he of course had to use capitalism to survive so it’s hardly a diss. Ie a person might say advocate for universal healthcare while paying for privatized insurance. This isn’t hypocritical because national healthcare in the U.S. isn’t a thing for most people meaning your options UNTIL it’s implemented are to be able to afford a doctor via playing along with the existing privatized system or suffer through injury and illness. Calling that hypocritical is idiotic.
Karl destroyed him. One of the most unique rap flows they've done too, for both Ford and Marx!
Anarchy for the win!😉 (because, both of these ideologies are used for evil) (they missed the opportunity to ft. Spooner)
Can't anarchy be used for the same thing? Hell every ideology can they all have flaws that can be exploited
I had ford but only by a little. It was close.
Marx cooked him but Ford had some solid shots
you pause too much bro, just react to the verse then come back to it
Nope.
brudda who tf you sayin no to, every react ytubers does it, check theem out @@whatitdodave
@@kycersGo watch those other RUclipsrs then
i have lmaoo@@Fleurig-xr5mm
😅 ok....
ahhh you don't need to explain the lyrics 🙃 if you have to, just do it after the video ends
But that’s what a reaction video is. A reactor breaking down and explaining things.
@@whatitdodavein my opinion, i think you should do what some other channels do and listen to an entire verse at once in order to get the full impact of it and then go back and break down each bar
@@1nn1tmate Thanks for the advice. But I already tried that back when I was first starting out. Problem is, nobody sticks around for that breakdown part, which hurts my viewer retention. It works for some reactors, not me.
@@whatitdodave ah, makes sense man. Great video!
Ford won hands down, but Marx put up a good fight. What bothers me is people picking a winner just because of ideology, not their actual performance
It isn't because of ideology. If you think Henry Ford won this, you don't know much about Henry Ford.
@@Gustav_Kuriga If you think that was my point, you obviously can’t think critically.
I’m saying people are picking winners for no other reason than the characters represent their ideology, not because of the character’s actual performances. Bias is the problem I’m addressing, since ideology shouldn’t matter when you’re critiquing a rap battle. Henry Ford won because his lines had better flow and rhythm, plus clever word-play and rhymes. What they actually did in real-world history is irrelevant. Idgaf about their ideologies, I’m reviewing their performance objectively.
@@bsgfan1 And I'm saying that if you're going to completely divorce the actual lines from their meaning, you shouldn't be judging rap battles, because the meaning of what is being said is just as important as the rhythm. This is especially true because it is EXTREMELY relevant when it comes to wordplay. A rap battle isn't just who can purely rap better, but who can counter their opponents points while also burying their opponent in put downs.
If you divorce lyrics from meaning and context, then they might as well be rapping about food and making wordplay based on that, it would be just as valid according to you. Henry Ford could have completely ignored Karl Marx and talked about hamburgers in paradise by your logic. Music, rap especially, derives its impact from the topic it is speaking of just as much as the technical feats of the musician.
"When I'm Gone" by Eminem wouldn't hit as hard as it does if the topic of the song were how incredibly good Eminem is. It's impact is DIRECTLY derived from Eminem speaking of how much pain he has caused his daughter and ex. It isn't as technically accomplished as "Rap God", but technique and word-play are tools for enhancing the song. You use them as they are needed, not just because you can. Making it as technically accomplished as "Rap God" would take away almost entirely from the impact of the song, because all that impact is tied up in its meaning.
Furthermore, I'm going to have to back that up by pointing out an actual rapper (Knox) gave the win to Karl Marx as well.
TL;DR Shut the fuck up about "ideology". The entire battle is centered around ideology. That's literally the point in having Karl Marx and Henry Ford battle it out. Divorcing their raps from that meaning makes the choice of persona battling it out entirely meaningless, and judging it as such is what a stupid person would do.
@@bsgfan1so your logic is that a rap battle means that you remove the meaning of lyrics and their real world applications and only go on flow and wordplay? Seriously?
Ok, since I see all the comments swarmed with people who think that Marx won, I gotta step up. I'm a history buff and feel that Ford came on top this time. Marx's punchlines were built on too many half-truths.
Half truths like what?
well it is rap battle not history lesson, if only thing you focus on is history facts and not rap itself then it is expectable to have wrong opinion. maybe you are right and marx used more half-truths but he used them to obliterate and humiliate ford in rap battle. all ford can say is "i lost but at least i stayed true to my facts" but he still lost
So Henry Ford didn't produce weapons and equipment for Nazi Germany, and didn't have his own newspaper he forced on workers that was incredibly anti-Semitic?
nah man Ford’s punches were too weak. Most of his lines consisted of mocking Marx for being poor and smelling bad, but he did have some good ones. Marx got him bad calling out his Nazi support and Mein Kamf reference, his abusing and sabotaging his only kid, his being a horrible boss and the horrid factory conditions, and especially the Ford massacres
To answer all the responses: No. My opinion is not wrong. It's a rap battle, not math. Who won is subjective, that's the magic of it. If every outcome of ERBs was predetermined, it wouldn't be that much fun now, would it? I merely stated my opinion and why I have it, since I felt it was fair to have both sides of the coin express themselves. Arguments that Marx had better punches won't work, I know what he said, I do speak English, and still stand by my opinion.
People saying Marx won have little to no understanding about Marx. Dude lost in life even harder than he lost this battle.
Karl Marx burned the soul out of him. Henry Ford win this? He all about how Karl poor and not clean. While Karl roast every single thing in Ford. And also does the famous line. "Found On Road Dead" :D A dead body can't win when massacred down... XD You missed the whole Battle bro. XD