Pathfinder 2e finally found its blaster caster? The new KINETICIST class! (Part 1: Overview)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Paizo aims to present a simple to play "blaster caster" with the new Kineticist! Do they succeed?
LINK to the Rules Lawyer's Kineticist series (Part 1 - Overview, Part 2 - Combat, Part 3 - Deep Dive): • Guide to Kineticist fo...
0:00 Intro
3:23 Rage of Elements overview
5:00 Thematic overview
6:46 D&D analogues
7:27 Why and why not be a kineticist
10:47 Mechanical overview begins
13:58 Elemental Blast
16:40 Single Gate v. Dual Gate
19:27 Gate's Threshold
23:16 Other stuff
26:01 Kineticist archetype
27:13 Elemental Barbarian Instinct
29:15 Closing thoughts
33:05 Coming up!
"The PSYCHIC class for Pathfinder 2e! Deep Dive + Combat Demo (Rules Lawyer)":
• The PSYCHIC class for ...
"Did Pathfinder 2e Over-Nerf Casters?"
• Did Pathfinder 2E Over...
=============================
LIKE & SUBSCRIBE! I'm a lawyer who teaches and runs tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder, D&D, Starfinder) for kids, teens, and adults, and making videos related to TTRPGs and board games.
JOIN MY DISCORD to chat with our community and/or try the Pathfinder Beginner Box or our drop-in PF2e play system! / discord
SUPPORT MY PATREON for early access to many of my videos and access to exclusive content, and to support me! I do unpaid public-interest legal work and rely on the Patreon and private GMing.
/ theruleslawyer
For PF2E actual plays, SUBSCRIBE to my other channel, "RULES LAWYER DISCORD COMMUNITY CHANNEL":
/ @theruleslawyerliveplay
Follow me on TWITTER at: / theruleslawyer1
Pick up your Pathfinder 2e book on Amazon using my affiliate links below. As an Amazon Affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases which helps me continue doing what I love!
Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook: amzn.to/3BiFCSj
Pathfinder 2e Beginner Box: amzn.to/3eVsUBB 
Игры
Fun little fact: the Chinese elements are actually fire, water, earth, metal, and wood. Greek is fire, water, earth, and air. Kineticist seems to have combined the two of them, which makes it easy to go for a specific regional theming for a character concept from anywhere in the world.
My Chinese element is water and my Greek element is air.
The Rage of Elements setup is actually the mix of elements used in Jim Butcher's Codex Alera novel series. I have no idea whether that's a direct inspiration or just convergent evolution, though.
@@BalooSJ well, the Chinese and Greek elements have been concepts for several millennia, so anything that's using them or combines them would be based on them naturally, and they probably weren't the first to combine them either.
Rage of Elements even incorporates the phases of the elements into the book, which is explicitly a thing from Chinese philosophy. (On page 9 if you have the pdf, the diagram with counter + feed.)
And they hinted at possible other philosophies (relevant for the Elementalist archetype) and thus future gates.
Minkai Elementalism is based on the Japanese idea of 4 classical elements and “void”. Vudrani is the classical 4 + Aether (quintessence).
I’d wager the Void Kineticist will be released in the Tian Xia books. Not sure when or how we’ll the Aether Kineticist (Aether is connected to the Ethereal Plane).
Which also means, there’s the possibility of a Vitality (Positive/Creation’s Forge) Kineticist!
Edit: My wishcrafting is that Void/Vitality Kineticists have access to Radiation + Void/Vitality damage types. I’m guessing Aether Kineticists will be Spirit damage.
@@BalooSJ Design notes was explicit about it being based on the Greek and Chinese elements.
There are no BAD choices for a Kineticist, even the most boring of Kineticist builds can be useful. I finally get to play Magneto and can't wait!
"You homo sapiens and your guns..." Magneto in Alkenstar, probably
This excites me for the Remaster.
This is what I want from ALL classes in terms of choices.
Edit: Ron made a team of Thaumaturge and will be making a team of Kineticist. But I’m certain he wouldn’t have been able to make a team of Psychics.
I think pinnacle class design and diversity is that you can have players all play one class and be able to be successful through the game.
Man I'm trying to rebuild my playtest Kineticist and it's so hard! Right now I'm testing an elemental allies build that focuses on an Elemental 'Animal' Companion and the Elemental Familiar.
Another option is an Earth/Wood Kineticist with both critical juntions, just because knocking someone down and then binding them to the ground sounds so cool, and you can become the ultimate protector, maybe with the Barbarian free archetype for the Resilience feat for even more HP to defend with.
With metal getting its own elemental planes, it really makes sense to remove the metal armor anathema from druids, since the elemental planes are associated with primal magic
Though oddly enough the plane of wood was added too but druids revolve around wood haha
Since you asked about it, the avatar rpg is a powered by the apocalypse style game (2d6 degrees of success with a tendency to be lighter on mechanics but often having some mechanics that are meant to tie directly into role play) it uses a "playbook" style of character creation that most PbtA games use where you choose a larger theme to then select your individual abilities from. It's kinda but not quite like the game's class system except it often also embodies the personality of the character your making just as much as the mechanics. The thing that sets it apart from most other PbtA style games is its "balance" subsystem as well as the unique simultaneous action combat system. Unfortunately the game systems barely address bending in any way mechanically which is a bit of a missed opportunity given the game is designed for Avatar, but it still has some interesting elements.
ADDITIONS/CORRECTIONS:
-After watching the Knights of Last Call stream, I think this class is meant to ALSO work as a strong controller as well.
-I forgot to say that, whille not spells, impulses are treated like spells for purposes of other game effects. You cannot use them while polymorphed, and a monster that has a bonus to its saves against spells also has them against impulses, for example.
-Kineticists need to take a 2nd-level class feat, Kinetic Activation, to use staves. But the automatic additional damage dice DO free up your money for exactly that!
Can they use a shadow signet? Otherwise I see the same accuracy problem casters have with spells that require an attack roll.
Hmm, would something like Rogue's magical trickster work with blasts? Considering the relatively low damage, need to gather before attacking and bad accuracy, I'm not sure why you'd want to, but it would be neat (though all of those concerns already apply to most everything you can use with that feat).
@@holgerchristiansen4003 I doubt it, as that item says specifically your next action is to "Cast a Spell"
Not entirely true, they still get an item bonus to their blasts. Not to mention that they can go melee for Easy flanking.
@holgerchristiansen4003 They can't, however, gate attenuators give a +1 and later +2 bonus to impulse attacks. For a bit less than half levels they are at -1 or -2 at most compared to martials, and at 19-20 they are +1. For 9 levels they are equal.
21:35 yes
The bestler has arrived! Permanent Athletic Rush will become the bane of enemy action economies!
I like this format. Your quickly becoming my favorite pf2e RUclipsr
Seconding the format. It's a really crisp way of presenting the information
One thing I quite enjoy about the Kineticist is the fact that, because it doesn't have daily resources and thus acts more like a Martial, that helps a lot to get across the fantasy of playing a Bender from Avatar. Because the benders are more like martial artists, there isn't really an idea of "mana" as separate from them, their bending and their martial arts are one and the same-- so it's only natural that this adaptation would make them function similarly to martials!
I love thematic the kineticist is. It’s really hard to make one note magical characters in pathfinder just due to the nature of spells.
"There's no martials that cast spells" - Offended in Magus / Summoner.
Warpriest should be listed here but it's a disappointment
Scroll thaum scoffs
I did wanna point out, there IS a subclass for Rogue that gives them a free multiclass archetype out of the dedicated spellcaster classes. And considering there's a feat that least Sneak Attack work with spell attack rolls, it's basically the only instance of a martial class that can be made to cast spells as part of its class identity if you want to. Don't get me wrong, I want Bloodrager too. But at the same time, it might be way too powerful even if you make it like a Magus or Summoner with limited spell slots. Still, really hope we get it someday.
Yeah, an instinct that grants a caster dedication and allows limited casting while raging is how I've envisioned a Bloodrager in PF2e.
I don't fully understand why Eldritch Trickster gets a multiclass dedication at lv1, when Elemental Barbarian doesn't get any feat assistance.
Dragon Instinct covers a lot of the same turf of elemental Rage damage, but it's Rage damage is numerically higher and it gets higher level feats like turning into a dragon. This is balanced by the fact that Elemental Instinct can use Kineticist archetype impulses... Which kinda means that Kineticist Dedication (and a couple archetype feats) are obligatory taxes, else Dragon would just be better?
I kinda wish there was some feat support here. Maybe the dedication being a free feat at lv1 or lv2 (like Eldritch Trickster gets). Or maybe a lv8 Barbarian feat that gives you two lv1 Kineticist impulses (as long as you are Elemental and took Kineticist Dedication already).
EDIT: I also believe impulses require a free-hand, so that's an extra hindrance. But I guess a bastard sword would be ideal here.
@@pavfeira Don't forget that while they're raging, Elemental Instinct gets to always be concealed against ranged attacks, and they get an option at level 2 to be more versatile with their Rage damage than a Dragon Instinct does. And, depending on the circumstance, their Elemental Explosion can be a bit more consistent at hitting targets with its 15-foot emanation than Dragon's Rage Breath with a bit more power (though also a bit more finagling required by another martial on your team, and 2 levels later). There's less overlap between the two than one might think.
But I do agree that a feat that gave them Basic Elemental Blast and one level 1 Impulse from their element would've been a great addition.
33:33 Infinite Expanse of Bluest Heaven sounds like an anime attack
I am really looking forward to this! I was a bit sad when the Kinetecist was not included in the first 2e edition :)
I believe that unlike stances, auras can be active outside of battle and can thus be active when battle starts.
This is super useful! I can't wait to see the other kineticist videos.
This makes me realize that I really need to pick up Dark Archive as well as this Rage of Elements when it gets released. Thanks, Ronald!
Great stuff, Ronald. Very much looking forward to this book.
Great description of the new class!
I really like what I see with Kineticist so far! Very excited to play one.
Also! I did love them in PF1e, too- I think the bookkeeping wasn't that hard if you knuckled down and focused. Enjoyed the video, even more excited for Kineticist than I was before!
Should have had zuko and azula summon fire daggers when they used the weapon infusion IMO! Great video!
hey im in the video! love the vid ron! looking forward to the combat. theres so many combinations of this class.
Thanks a lot for this review!!!
I'm so glad they fixed kineticist! 1ed gave me hellfire warlock vibes with the burn mechanic, and I felt that it wasn't very imaginative. All the new stuff opens up great role play opportunities with a group. Thanks for the vid mate.
No martial spellcasters? The magus would like a word with you.
That is two old concepts I can realize with the Kineticist.
One was a 5E Warlock.
You should check out the revised Witch they did for the remaster.
@@Doctor_Nu It doesn't fit for either concept
Metal and wood are sooo cool, love it so much
Output, Sustainability, Safety. Pick 2.
Fighters have output and Sustainability. High damage, no finite resources. (Generally speaking)
Kinetiscists went with Safety and Sustainability. Good range and no major resources expenditures.
Looks pretty good on paper. I'm looking forward to making a few dozen characters (😀) and then trying them in a game.
There's a Strix Water/Air OC I've had in my head for years, so I can't wait for this book!
I see that you have a copy Twilight Struggle on your background. It’s an awesome game! Great taste on board games
I'm looking forward to finally getting to play the lava-bender of my dreams!
I wonder how close they will adhere to the Feng Shui 5 elements, with the extra one in there. It's obviously an inspiration, with Wood and Metal being elements in that system.
Yep
Precisely. Air doesn't exist in the classical Chinese take on the concept. The only real classical element we're missing here is a Void/Aether analogue, but that makes sense as we're talking physical manifestations ;)
Well, more accurately, Air/Lightning is traditionally bundled in with Wood.
In the Wuxing system, you identify the power of air from the wind rustling through leaves and when lightning strikes a tree.
Mixing the Classical 4 with the 5 Phases allows Air to cover Wind/Lightning and Wood to focus on Qi/Life (hence Vitality damage).
@@allaryin 1e did have aether(covering things like telekinesis and forcefields) AND void(which covered all the negative energy undead stuff) hopefully we will see some of those return as later options,
though 2e seems to tie them more to the planes rather then just an elemental theme so unless we get gates for non-elemental planes(which opens up all kind of fun with hell kineticists) it seems unlikely
@@seelcudoom1 in 1e the aether and void kineticist were tied to the ethereal and the negative energy plane respectively not to mention both aether and void are classic elements so it would only make sense to explore those options maybe in a book that explores the other inner planes
Looking forward to the combat vid. Are Azula and Zuko both fire, or is one subbing in for another element?
Lin Beifong from Korra would be great for metal.
I don't recall any wood bending in atla apart from the swamp water benders making a mecha suit from vines.
Looks like a very very fun and versatile class.
Zuko is straight fire, PF1 didn't have a way for kineticists to do electric damage but PF2 might, which would be a fire/air mix because electricity is the damage type associated with air.
@@AGrumpyPanda They did, it was one of the damage types you could pick with Air back in 1e.
My guess:
Aang - air
Katara - water/wood
Toph - earth/metal
Zuko - fire
Azula - fire/air
Earth Kineticist + Monk Dedication = Tremor from the Mortal Kombat franchise? 😊 🙃
Kidding aside, this class looks like a blast to play.
Earth (or Metal... Or both Earth and Metal?) Kineticist + either the Champion, Monk, or Fighter dedications (via the free archetype rule) looks like a great melee build option.
EDIT: Both Medic and Sentinel Dedications are phenomenal here. For any fire, water, or air kineticist, the Sentinel Dedication is great if you have to get into melee to fight. (Medic is great for out of combat healing.)
A small note: Weapon Infusion's ranged options remove the "maximum distance" element from the blasts - the 100 ft. version, for example, specifies that it's a 100 ft. INCREMENT, meaning that a character can go as far as a freakin' LONGBOW with his kinetic blasts!
Basically, when you want to "go the distance", that is a must - a Weapon Infusion kineticist can snipe an opponent just fine.
And that's awesome.
Regarding the feat that lets you use scrolls, what about staves? Do you charge them? You get to cast a spell once per day?
I love Electricity and Thunder. Wonder how slinging those will work if at all.
My druid player will love becoming part water bender with this!
The Archetype is good, though definitely not for blasting, more for utility, IMO.
I love the idea of an elemental barb ngl
In it's current (PWotR) I really love this class. I just don't like that you have to specialize for either energy damage (which has to overcome spell resistance) or physical ranged which can miss. You can't do both effectively.
1st lv feat clarification....
Do you 3 or 2?
1 class feat and then 2 from you element or elements?
I’ve played Avatar: Legends. It’s fun! Mostly narrative so not a lot of numerically tactical choices
I just want wood guys to make trees and keep me and my eidolon alive 😂
looks fun! do we know when will Kineticist be available on Nethys?
Presumably not long after the book's full release, so early August
I want to do an earth bender real real bad. Stone order Druid scratched that it really will actually. I have not seen a deep dive yet, because we are still a couple weeks out. If anyone has an insight as to which is better?
Does the 2-action Elemental Blast add your Constitution Modifier to both melee and ranged damage, or does it only affect melee damage?
zooming in when he shows off the feature, yes a 2-action melee Elemental Blast does [dice based on element and level] + Str + Con, so ranged or melee, you basically get Power Attack built into your blasts for free
Yes! And with weapon infusion you can add str to a ranged blast as well through the thrown trait!
I'm wondering if some of the kineticist is influenced by the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan.
I backed the Avatar: The Last Airbender TTRPG and have read through the book a bit but haven’t had a chance to run it with anyone. Its definitely cool and a lot of thought and love was put into it. But i will say, i dont think it’s what most pathfinder/d&d players would be looking for in an avatar style rpg. Because of that, i am excited for the kineticist!!!
This class plus wolf stance martial artist = korra
But if i make 2 actions RANGE elemental blast,does it add my con modifier?
It does.
Melee blasts gets both STR and CON as bonus damage on the other hand.
ah, i want to play a kinetisist so badly! btw which element would you, fellow commenter pick? mine is a combination of wind and wood
Im going to make a wood/earth tank build.
I bought Avatar the last airbender RPG and I love it. Totally different from the more mechanics heavy systems, like dnd, gurps and pf2. The flavor is king in this book.
Okay, so dumb question. I am sure, but can you have more than one aura stance going at the same time?
A new stance will always replace the old one.
is the Kineticist released?
I forget; does the Kineticist have its own form of universalist (I.e multiple elements)? Or no? I can’t recall if that was an option
During the playtest there was an option to start with all gates except wood and metal (since they weren't in the playtest), and you'd get to choose one 1st level impulse at the start of each day instead of having the 2-3 set ones you got from the other options. But you didn't get the choice to expand to new elements or double down further on your chosen one(s) after making that choice at lvl 1.
With the new system you can get to 4 elements by level 9 (and all 6 by lvl 17) if universalist is your goal, and ultimately I think that balance wise it was a good choice not to let someone pick from all the best impulses from each element starting at lvl 1
You can unlock the others via feats.
Have all at level 17.
Weapon infusion feels weird to me. Is there ever a reason to use sweep over agile? Similarly, it'd be hard to justify taking forceful, but at least it's not the exact same.
Similarly, doesn't thrown 20 mostly remove any reason to do reach? I guess thrown is a ranged attack, so it would trigger AoO which is pretty common, but needing 5 ft, but not 15, and being in reach of an AoO feels really niche...
The obscene ranges also immediately remove the value of air and fires long range at level 1. It's just a little weird...
Reach can flank with another martial. Thrown gets the same STR to damage but no flanking.
Ranged infusion does sorta negate the long-range benefit of air/fire, but I could see some players choosing the alternate damage type feat or the familiar feat, especially if they're not planning to do many Blasts.
I do agree that some of the weapon traits seem stronger than others. Maybe a "fairer" way would be that some traits lower your damage die by one step, and other traits don't. But I could see that becoming very cumbersome in play.
I made a bet with Derik of Knights of Last Call that it will be errata'd this year lol. It does seem too strong to me
@@pavfeira except it doesn't give you reach in general, it just gives you reach if your next action is a blast, so you are never threatening those squares. You won't help an ally gain flanking. Not sure if the kineticist has anything like AoO, but this feat wouldn't work for that either (unless something specifies otherwise).
I do wish air and fire could upgrade their damage die for melee attacks. Other than the fact that I really like air thematically, there doesn't seem to be much reason to use an air blast instead of one of the higher damage ones when this feat provides so much at level 1 (that all completely ignores the range of the original blast...)
'Kay, sell me on the idea of using Weapon Infusion to add the Backswing or Sweep traits to a melee blast instead of just adding Agile. Like, do those Traits even work for Elemental Blasts? If I use Weapon Infusion, then Elemental Blast, and then Weapon Infusion again into Elemental Blast... am I really using *the same* weapon to trigger Backswing/Sweep? If my first Elemental Blast takes the form of an axe, and then I shape it into a hammer for the second, does it lose its condition as *same weapon?* The same with Forceful. What obvious ruling am I missing?
i would assume your elemental blast is treated as a singular weapon, regardless of its form, similar to how a weapon with the shifting rune is still the same weapon
@@seelcudoom1 Even then: why those different traits if they all accomplish, in a nutshell, the same thing? If I give my blast Backswing, miss with the attack, and repeat the attack I could:
a) give the blast Backswing again and attack *any creature* with a -4 penalty.
b) give the blast Agile instead and attack *any creature* with a -4 penalty.
c) give the blast Sweep and attack *another creature* with a -4 penalty.
a) and b) are exactly the same option. What am I missing?
@@SuikoRyos Yeah it's clearly a holdover from the playtest when you could make your element an actual weapon. There is no reason to pick Backswing or Sweep over Agile, since none of the blasts come with that trait and it's not a real weapon so you can't even use the activity feats that get a benefit from sweep with it.
@@SuikoRyosmechanically? No difference. Flavor wise? What do you plan to do?
Shank a man with a red hot shard of fiery metal? Agile
Smash with a pillar of stone? Sweep
Spiked vine whips? Backswing
It’s, practically speaking, just flavor at that point
@@SuikoRyos One niche case in which it would matter: An Elemental Barbarian wouldn't want to give a blast the Agile trait because it would reduce their rage damage.
You said there's no martial that casts spells, but isn't that just a Magus?
I think people may see the magus more like a caster who hits stuff than a martial who casts. But i agree that magus feels more martial than caster.
Magus (and Summoner) is a hybrid caster/martial in the same way that Swashbuckler is a hybrid martial/skill class.
@@thekidunknown97 Yea, especially 'cause Magus's key ability is Str/Dex.
That's fair. But in my personal taxonomy I place it between "martial" and "caster" before placing analyzing it. Magus and Summoner both have a unique spell slot progression making them the "half casters" of PF2E.
@@Lechteron yeah the bounded/wave/half casters are kinda their own thing, but idk if swashbuckler is a "skill class", like they get really good at certain skills similar to a thaumaturge or bard, but they're nowhere near rogues and investigators with their skill increase+feat every level
_(sad Blood Kineticist noises)_
well people are like 80% water, gotta think big man
27:15 Elemental Barbarian
The draw for a Caster Alternative went away a lot for me as soon as they made Cantrips Good. Still i'll make one at some point.
Not a lot of people see it that way! (I’ve seen folks lament there’s no reason to play a caster anymore, lol)
I disagree with the caveats of the not as much damage and effects, except for a blend of both. Just to give an example for damage Magnetic pinions for metal deals 1d4 piercing and 1d4 bludgeoning to 3 targets within 60 ft. So, 6d4 at lvl 1. Each damage die increases by 1d4 every 2 levels. So at lvl 3 you're doing 12d4 in a round (double on a crit 24d4); if you hit of course. You can only do it every other round, but still that's a lot of damage. Oh, and 18d4 at lvl 5 without a crit, 6d4 to 3 different targets. Did I mention that this is just a lvl 1 feat, it's not even one of their ability abilities. One more thing, for the not as good as effects as spell casters look at Timber Sentinel, a level 1 feat.
25:14 Metamagic? Don't you mean "Spellshape" ;) hahaha
So if you wanted to create a Shinobi from NARUTO, do you go for a Kineticist build?
The Kineticist archetype art is literally a ninja. XD
@@toodleselnoodos6738 so a rogue wit kineticist arctpe?
@@questmarq7901 Ya, looks like it’s a water Kineticist. Dressed as a blue shinobi using Deflecting Wave to block a Produce Flame.
Did you notice that kineticist at lvl 1 gets a bonus 4 ability increases? they would be the only class that could get stats as high as that
Everyone gets 4 free boosts.
@@datonkallandor8687 then is it a formatting thing cuz the other classes arnt worded that way. its the same ability that gives your your stat increase at 5/10/15/20 but it also says you get it at lvl1
@@davidchesterton4033 My guess is this is a change in how they're going to be structuring all class descriptions. Which does make it look off when the Remaster hasn't come out yet.
I thought that the magus is the blaster caster.
The Kineticist multiclass archetype looks like you'll be spending half your feats to be on-par with a wizard using a crossbow or spear. Worse than a cantrip and more expensive than caster archetypes. Am I missing something here?
This just bothers me a lot. Other than that it looks quite nice, and great vid!
You definetly don't take it to do damage. You take for the support / mobility options, and even tho you can only take impulses half your level they DO scale (kinda as if you'd get 9th / 10th level spells, as a dedication).
@@PowerOfDoi Yeah, I can see it for the impulses; but that still leaves the existence of the feats to raise the damage and accuracy in question. They don't require just a little bit of investment either to get on-par with weapons at even expert level, or cantrips from archetypes.
They cost feats instead of gold for Striking runes. You could take just a few of the Blast feats to have a decent ranged backup for 0gp. It's a harder sell if you're using ABP variant rule, though.
If I'm not mistaken, the attack impulse feats scale up automatically by your level
caster archetype havers pay 3 feats + dedication to get their 1 spell slot per rank, afaict kineticist archetype havers pay feats for each impulse (which scales for free and can be used any number of times), and spend those three "mandatory feats" on scaling their blasts instead, so it comes out pretty even but is different wrt partial investment
Wonder how well this dual classes
I am wondering about the following: it is suggested to not dual class casters with casters and martials with martials. What is the kineticist? A caster? But the key stat CON is still extremely useful for dual classing. I'd classify it as caster for dual classing... But, is it?
@@erikthiele289After studying it I realized something. It's a caster that's kinda martial. Sort of like the Alchemist is a martial that is kinda a caster.
@@erikthiele289based off initial impressions I’m inclined to treat it as a caster as well. I’m interested in diving in deeper and looking at its synergy.
Not very well I imagine.
It has ZERO synergy with other classes. It’s unique Impulses are neither spells nor strikes so don’t interact with either.
Because of its caster design, it’s very action-heavy/taxing.
Mostly offers a lot of horizontal versatility, but not actual vertical power.
@@toodleselnoodos6738 yes the action economy makes it tough to match up with other classes. I think champion is the only good option
What do you mean "new", it was a blaster caster in 1e -_-
MINE STILL WONT SHIP AHHHHHH YOURE ALL SO LUCKY
i thought magus was a martial class
I never used kineticist as a blaster caster x.x
Depending on which you use, you don’t even have to use elemental blast all that often. There are plenty of other impulses to take up your actions.
Am I the only one a little underwhelmed by the lack of composite element stuff?
I'd agree that casters aren't weak, but I do think it would be nice if there were methods within spellcasting classes to specialize in dealing damage at the cost of some of your utility. Wanting to zap a guy with eyeball lasers or finger guns is verym uch a caster fantasy, which (until kineticist? I don'tfully know, just pulled the vid up) isn't supported as well.
*looks at the feat name* You mean ryoiki tenkai. Looks like some of the creator team is a fan of JJK.
Anyone else tempted to make Dual Class Elemental Barbarian and Kineticist 😜
This doesn't work for me, gotta get that book in my own hands!
Ha, the annoying thing about new classes/races being released in new books... means some character creation tools will need new purchases to add them in... but when you have a class based system, it definitely is more difficult to expand the game without doing so.
Huh? Maybe I'm just not following you but... AON and Pathbuilder will both have all the rules for this for free when it releases, just like with everything else in 2e. Nobody will need to purchase anything if they don't want to.
@GorgoPrimus yes, they are the free stuff. Things like Demiplane, or Herolab will for sure charge for the new books. AON and Pathbuilder are great though.
I think Demiplane is updating them for free, not sure about Herolab.
Honestly doesnt feel like a caster at all except with the armor proficiency and HP.
Seems neat
Edit: just started watching part 2, i was so wrong!! 😂
Science hater here, glad to see we’re using the NORMAL elements here and not those WEIRD NUMBERS AND LETTERS. Incredibly based
0:12 That's disappointing that there's no Blaster Caster in Pathfinder 2e oh well It's not like I play Pathfinder 2e much anyway I can always stick to Savage worlds if I wanted to make a blaster caster
Psychic is the blaster caster of PF2. I just had my party psychic do about 300 damage in one spell against 4 enemies at level 8 a day ago. Double Spell Level Flat Damage is *huge*.
You can definitely do blasting as a caster in PF2. Your single-target damage will not be as good as a martial's, but on the other hand you will have much better AOE damage.
For example, a 5th level arcane or primal caster casting a cantrip deals about 3d4+4 damage (average 11) as a two-action activity. A 5th level martial seeking to balance offense and defense probably deals around 2d8+4 (average 13), but only spends one action in doing so, and there are probably some other shenanigans boosting that damage by a d6 or so. So for sustained damage, martials definitely outclass casters.
But casters also have proper spells they can use. For example, Fireball comes online at 5th level, and deals 6d6 damage. Not only that, but it has an enormous range and a pretty big AOE, so in the right circumstance you can hit like half a dozen opponents with it. But of course, your Fireball supply is limited.
The downfall of casters is when fighting single strong opponents. Then, their AOE spells generally don't help much, because there's only one target they want to hurt. And higher-level opponents usually have good saves, making it hard to land good spell effects on them. Fortunately, many spells have at least some effect even on a successful save. For example, my sorcerer's go-to effects against boss-type things have been Fear (which makes them Frightened 1, giving them -1 to pretty much everything, even on a successful save) or Slow (costing them an action on a successful save - trading two of my actions for one of the boss's might sound bad, but not when you consider that I have three buddies that also have three actions each so I'm really trading 1/6th of our actions for 1/3rd of theirs).
I think I should have worded it differently. You can blast but you will need to specialize in the role and not be good as good at other caster things. And also, only your highest level spell slots will be okay for blasting. Pf2 still has Vancian casting (no upcasting) and lower level spells drop off in usefulness. And even then you'd need to be okay with AOE damage against at-level and weaker creatures, which is still amazeballs.
As you level up, you still need to understand how you leverage those lower level spells for things OTHER than blasting.
So it's not the straightforward class any I think are looking for.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Still gonna stick with Savage worlds because I just kind of learned over time that even though I absolutely love pf2e in regards to the amount of options that the players have like all the ancestry, heritages, versatile heritages, all the different types of feats the archetypes etc I can't let go of my mixed feelings on how casters are balanced I also just don't like to describe as one Reddit post said It pf2e's set them up knock them down gameplay where you're be really tactical and you stack conditions on conditions and stuff like that I'm also just not the biggest fan of tactics or real-time strategy games my favorite real-time strategy game being mutant year zero road to Eden
@@WolfBoy-om6dw low-crunch/narrative games are definitely valid! They can really help with non-combat, getting more gameplay into sessions, and homebrewing cool unique tricks for your character.
Honestly, the caster/martial divide is only an issue in DnD-derived games that actually have spell slots, in most other games magic and mundane abilities use the same benefit and cooldown mechanics so it's all inline.
Kineticist isn't a spellcaster though :/
I hope it's better than the playtest, that was miserably bad. For example the fact that the greatest earth kineticist in the world could levitate a slightly above average sized rock was pitiful.
They did increase the capacity of that by a decent amount.
At the end, you can manipulate 4 bulk of rock.
@@9652769 so the most powerful earth kineticist can move a boulder slightly larger than a halfling, not exactly Toph is it?
There's a wall of stone equivalent as well as some big damage spells that involve throwing a bunch of rocks around. I think it feels pretty good.
You're not just doing Basic and Extended Kinesis. There are many higher level feats that are involve bigger chunks of matter
I think it's confusing that you refer to everything as "blasting" when there is a class feature called "Elemental Blast", I know that you probably just mean "do things" when you say "blasting" but it makes it looks like you say "You can do 3 elemental blasts every turn". I know that you refer to it that way because he may be a blaster caster, but is a poor choice of words.
"Blasting" generally means doing non-physical damage at range turn after turn. Basically, some people want to play a ranged fighter that just "feels" like a caster
@@lawrl777 Yeah, but like I said, in the context of this class "blast" can mean using "Elemental Blast", if you say "blast" to refer to the multiple impulses the class has then you are making things confusing for new players.
pretty lame tbh, barbarian elemental instinct is now Bomberman xD
How are you reviewing an unreleased product?
Did you miss the part at the start where he says he has a review copy?
@@vipertooth3933Can I get free copies early?
@@MatthewCenance Only if you're special and you aren't.
Paizo has a program where people with an audience of 1000+ get a PDF of something they plan to cover. Their Discord server "Paizo Partners" is how to get hooked up if you qualify.
I left this same comment under the "Did Pathfinder 2e Over-Nerf Casters?" video, but I really feel like you missed the point in that video. You made it a PvP match for some reason, and then went on to say the experiment was pointless because groups need both.
Making it a PvP match misses the point of the frustrations people have with casters in PF2e, which is that monster saves scale way higher and faster than player saves. Of course casters are going to be more effective against similarly-leveled PCs, they have a lower chance to save and no immunities/resistances to worry about. PF2e monsters have saves so high that their weak save is, at best, a coinflip as to if they'll fail or not and it gets worse for their higher saves.
It also doesn't address caster proficiency gaps where there are levels (I think 5-7 and later 11-13) where caster saves get wildly outscaled by similarly leveled monster saving throws, or how some spell lists are just really underwhelming (particularly Divine).
Casters need to worry about using RK (which takes an action, isn't fun because you don't get to roll it yourself, and could give you false information back), their spells cost 2-3 actions usually which means they don't get to enjoy the full depth of the 3-action economy like martials do, they still have to worry about running out of spell slots where martials do not have to worry about running out of anything except ammo.
Also at low levels their spells don't have a huge impact, and low levels is where people will spend most of their time.
It's not a matter of casters being weak, it's that they've been forced into a support role which has to rely on the effect from their spells where the enemies saved most of the time, their impact is less exciting as the martials doing insane crits with huge damage dice from striking weapons, and people who want to play casters who just blast stuff having nowhere to go.
Oh and some enemies are just straight up immune to spells aside from a small handful. Abomination Vaults in particular is full of them.
The Caster Martial Divide at Level 5-7 is very deliberate. Martials no longer get extra attack, but casters still get fire ball.
Additionally, most spells have decent success effects, while normal miss does nothing. Casters shine against many enemies, while martials like single enemy bossfights more. This discrepancy is part of the masterful design of the game, not an oversight.
@@ostravaofboletaria1027 Martials get striking runes at level 4, which is this games equivalent of extra attack. Plus they get weapon specialization at level 7. I feel like that's a bigger jump in power than an extra attack at -5.
@@ostravaofboletaria1027 Most spells don't have decent success effects. The good spells that everyone takes have decent success effects. PF2e's balance is good but the internal balance between spells is not one of the ways in which it is balanced.
Also it's also a matter of excitement and how much you feel like you contributed. Like say casting Fear. You just applied... a -1 to the target's AC. Great. That only feels good if you manage to turn a miss into a hit, a hit into a miss, or a hit into a crit.
You know what feels better? Dealing 50 damage on a crit from a striking rune and instantly deleting anything you just did that to. The spellcaster's only contribution is making the crit slightly more likely to happen. But if the martial blew out the target's AC or rolled a 20, the caster's contribution to that crit meant nothing.
This doesn't mean casters are bad, it means they feel way worse to play. Keep in mind that martials also get to more fully enjoy the 3 action economy and have good stats in physical abilities which lets them do more exciting things in combat. Meanwhile 1 of the 2 things most casters get to do on their turn is ask the GM to roll a knowledge for them.
Great example would be the last session of Abomination Vaults I GMed. 4 enemies who were immune to most spells. Preceded immediately by an encounter with enemies who were immune to most spells. And followed up by an enemy who is immune to most spells. Meanwhile the group's Champion dealt 2x the max HP of one of those magic-immune enemies in one hit. Yeah, my casters were having great fun that session, so much so that I had to apologize for wasting 4 hours of their life.
His martials vs casters video that I watched is not a pvp match. It is a gauntlet of typical adventure situations to see how an all martial team does vs an all caster team. Not gonna change your mind, it's clear you want nukes. Nothing wrong with that, that role is already filled with martials though. If everyone should be able to fill the same role, 4e exists. You might like it.
@@dji7732 I do happen to like 4e, but clearly you never touched it, because if you did you'd know that the classes are spread into 4 archetypes (defender, striker, controller, leader) and most definitely do not all do the same thing. Even classes within the same archetype do that archetype's role in different ways. They get their powers in a similar way of drawing from at-will, encounter, and daily powers, but there's an enormous variation in what those powers actually do.
There's actually a lot of DNA of 4e in PF2e so maybe don't be so quick to throw that system's name around in a derogatory manner.
Anyway the point is that "just play martials if you want to do big damage" is not a satisfactory deflection of a flaw in Pathfinder 2e. 4e actually did address this by making the Sorcerer a Striker (focuses on big damage) and the Wizard a Controller (focuses on crowd control). Both fill the class fantasy of being a character who wields magical might, but one is for people who want to do big brain plays, and the other is for people who want to blow stuff up. This is an area that Pathfinder 2e is lacking in.
You know what else 4e had? An actual martial support character. It was called the Warlord, it had all kinds of battlefield commands to boost, empower, and enable their allies. People who liked 4e generally thought the Warlord was pretty cool, the main criticism was that it heals you by barking orders at you, which is kinda silly.
Can we be honest about the treatment of casters? The fact that Martial get to increase their to hit where casters do not. The argument that they can target multiple saves doesn't even help, since even if you can make them roll their lowest save, they generally have a higher chance to save compared to the martial's chance to hit, with no way to increase their DC. Also, the fact that you are limited on spells per day, and if you want to drop them on a "Big Bad" then they are even less likely to stick, so you save up your spells, then finally use them and they do nothing. Sure, buffing can be strong, but it honestly feels like all they are good for. It isn't until you start doing things such as Magus, who can get the to hit bonus martials get on their spells that it starts feeling somewhat on level with martial. I'm not talking about the damage, I'm talking about the chance to hit, the chance to save, the fact that you either guess or spend actions to find out what the lowest save is doesn't help. I've honestly been thinking of adding a rune on staves/wands that give a +1 to spell attack/DCs at the same rate that martials get their +1 to see if this makes things feel any better.
First!
I would have to do some more research but a year ago I did a dive into 2e and just couldn’t shake the feeling of dumbing down and losing a lot of my customization and uniqueness of Pathfinder 1E. I don’t want to be a stick in the mud and unchanging but everything I see is, “made 1E easier to play.” Which is great for bringing new people but is it losing people like me who enjoyed the in-depth builds and feeling of something truly custom? The Kineticist was one of my favorite classes and watching this made me just ask, “why”. Maybe you can help me understand. I want to be open to the change but I just don’t “feel” it
But here’s the problem I always. I want to be a “blaster” wizard. Not be relegated to having to play Kineticist or psychic to.
PF2 “play anything you want… except don’t be a wizard and want to do damage or be a witch that’s actually useful!”
Witch’s aren’t as useless as people say.
Ima be real. As someone who came from 5e, I don't like how overtuned and over balanced pathfinder 2e is. Kineticist is a script change that enjoy after realizing that there's no point to me playing a caster
Casters are fine, what are you guys complaining about? Meanwhile, Paizo has to invent an entirely new system for their blaster casters, bc spells are a broken mess.
The "blaster caster players always wanted" does less damage than a fighter lol.