D&D Starter Set: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle VS Pathfinder Beginner Box Honest Review and Unboxing
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- The D&D Starter Set: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle and Pathfinder Beginner Box go Head-to-Head in a battle to the death to claim the title of “Best Tabletop Roleplaying Starter Package” here on Basic Liches.
Adventure Rules and Chronicle Sheet
downloads.paizo.com/OP-Sancti...
Starter Set Rules (2014)
media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/do...
Stormwreck Isle Character Sheets
media.wizards.com/2022/dnd/do...
00:00 Introduction
01:33 Stormwreck Isle Unboxing
12:26 Pathfinder Beginners Box Unboxing
22:35 Final Battle - Who Will be Crowned Champion 
Игры
![Dragons of Stormwreck Isle - Adventure Read Through [Chapter 1]](/img/1.gif)
I'll add, as a person who plays D&D 5e and pathfinder 2e, every rule for pathfinder 2e can be found legally online for free. This includes all the monster stat blocks, alternate rules, all spells and items. I got my entire family - including older completely inexperienced parents - into it very easily through the beginner box and the available free content.
We have been convinced to give it a shot, thanks for watching!
@@BasicLiches Can't wait for your video.
@@BasicLiches on roll20 the D&D starter set has maps but only for the 4 chapter doungeons and player bud the random encounters don't have maps and this only comes with like 15 types of enemies I flushed mine out for my players with 3 more encounters and 2 more dungeons with more monsters from the monster manual the starter set was way more bare bones then the original 5e one
Most 5e rules can be found online for free and legally if you know where to look
If you look at D&D 5th Edition as a whole, it wasn't designed for 5-6 new players to pick up and run. It was designed for 1-2 veterans to guide 4-5 newbies. And the D&D Starter set displays that. The Pathfinder Beginners Box is made to support 5 fully new players.
Excellent point! It almost seems like they're trying to change that with One DnD....but we will see. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment.
It makes a LOT of sense.
But why would 1-2 veterans need that 5e box set? They'd have something far better to hand. That set is neither fish not fowl - inadequate for complete newbies, lackluster and thin for veterans.
I'm a (mostly) PF2 content creator, and i loved this! I know you were giving your first impressions, but you didn't get to the strongest suit of the PF2 beginner set: the ease for the GM!
When you see the first few pages of the adventure, you'll see what i mean. This set was designed so that even the GM can run the adventure minutes after you open the box! It holds your hand on how to run the table, transition to combat, etc. Each room is designed to teach new rules, to the players and the GM.
Since you're new to PF, i would love to see a video of you guys running and reacting to the PF2 adventure here! I have some vids you can check out, but it might make more sense to try to run it cold, without knowing anything!
EDIT: I shared this on the PF2 subreddit, so you may get a bump in views! =D
A more subtle benefit as well (just to tack onto this) is the adventure also teaches you the game step-by-step. It doesn't just throw you into an adventure and like "good luck!" it goes into combat, then lighting, then dungeon delving, puzzles, saving throws, diplomacy instead of combat, the list goes on!
Hey Rules Lawyer! The Liches are big fans of your content! You're so right about the PF2 Beginner Set, we had a chance to read through it after filming. As soon as we get a chance we're going to run the adventure and share our thoughts. Thank you for sharing our video with the subreddit!
@@BasicLiches Oh awesome!!! Looking forward to it!
As an outsider to both 5E and PF2E (I play my own homebrew TTRPG), and as someone who began my lifelong passion with roleplaying with D&D, I gotta say I definitely get the impression that Pathfinder cares *WAY* more about their players and DMs than D&D does at this point.
Well said! DnD seems to be about making stacks of cash...while Paizo wants to make killer RPG products for their fans. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment Carmen Rose!
@@BasicLiches And thank you guys for making such a helpful video! :D
Definitely shows with the new OGL leaks.
And then Baldur's Gate 3 Came
@@simounobrien9096 Baldur’s Gate 3 may be an extension of the brand, but it is not the brand itself. It’s the exception, not the rule. 99% of the goodwill Baldur’s Gate 3 generated comes from Larian Studios themselves, not Wizards.
You didn't mention that the pf2e adventure is also designed to teach you the rules. The first encounter just teaches you AC, HP, to hit, damage, actions, and initiative. Then they introduce skill checks and darkness. Then the spider introduces saving throws and conditions. The next encounter teaches about immunities, resistances, and weaknesses. Then it adds flanking and hazards and puzzles. Each encounter adds a new mechanic for the players to digest and also creates a memory with them that'll stick more than words on a page.
Plus the Beginner Box is setup for you to continue on into Abomination Vaults or Troubles in Otari.
Thanks Joe! We didn't find this little gem until after filming, and you're right on the nose. Have a lichin' day!
Something else that deserves to be said, especially since there are blank character sheets in the Pathfinder box: You can make a character thats *not* in the Beginner box, because the rules are all available on websites like Archive of Nethys. "Hey, can I play a Pathfinder Monk?" "Sure, lemme just bring up their class section real quick." Bam- a whole new experience, and non-restrictive.
Very true! You could easily get months of adventures out of the Beginners Box.
@@BasicLiches Speaking of months of adventures. If I remember correctly, all those extra pawns and creature stats in the beginner box? They're not just for homebrewing your own game after the box. Those are the pawns and such you'd want for "Menace Under Otari"s follow up lv 2-4 adventure, "Troubles in Otari".
The box even has rules to create characters and advance them to level 3(?).
As someone who has regularly played both D&D and Pathfinder (both various editions), I honestly sway towards Pathfinder. Yes, the game is crunchier, but that has a lot to do with just how much the game allows the players to do. Character customization in Pathfinder 1e and 2e is leaps and bounds ahead of D&D 5e.
Character customization in 5E is practically non-existent! It's one of the biggest complaints we have about the system. We're very intrigued by P2E, and will be playing through the BB adventure in the near future. We hope to report back with some comparisons of the two systems. Thanks for taking the time to watch the video and drop us a comment Seth.
ALL of this. And I am so glad the current debacle is bringing players to Path2. Because tbh, it was a tad hard to find groups that played Path2 until now over here. Probably because it's spain and a lot of people prefer rulebooks in Spanish. But the current dnd issue let me convince my group to try path2 at last, under the condition that I dm... I am a bit of a forever dm so yknow.
Point is. One thing trying both systems and having to use 5e against my preference repeatedly has taught me, is Path2 is leaps and bounds above DnD5. Sure it may be a bit crunchier, but that is paid for in flexibility fivefold. Both for DMs and Players.
And one good example of how is the silly bets I have sometimes made with players, on wether or not they could make certain characters from videogames and still have them make sense.
Just recently after on another youtube comment I saw someone trying to make Godrick the Grafted from Elden ring I made a bet with a player that if he could make a version of Godrick that was better than the one I made (fleshwarp titan instinct barbarian with beast gunner archetype) I would let him not only play it for the game, but get "permanent enlarge" as a feat or heritage at low levels so he could be large via homebrew (because I knew how painful it is to be large in Path2. For some reason Paizo really doesn'y like giving that to low levels.)
And lo and behold. He did it. For the record, he made a build that would start with fighter as a class so he could get double slice and 1st level. Then he got dragon instinct barbarian at lvl 2 so he could get fire attacks at lvl 6 and dragon breath by 12, and he used Golem Grafter really just to style on my ass (glorious bastard he is), then used beastkin to get enlarge by level 13. So yeah, bet won and rewon. With the hilarious side effect that the only fighter feats he got would have been lvl 1, lvl 20 and the 2 you get from class traits. That was just funny. Playing a class while ignoring most of it and still having it make sense...
So yeah for the record I let him homebrew becoming large as a heritage, so he could get living weapon as lvl 1 feat. We're starting campaign next week.
But point is. There's no way this would have worked in 5e. Nor any other similar bet. And in Path2 it worked in 2 different ways, and there's probably more. The comment in youtube that started this bet was planning on using mutagenist so there's at least a 3rd!
That should tell you the serious difference between the 2 systems. One is made with freedom in mind, the other isn't.
Really cool to see D&D players recognize how high-quality Paizo's products are. Paizo beat WotC at their own game during the 4e days. They are, as you said, "hungry" to get some of that market share back that 5e has been hogging lately. As experienced players, I think you guys will appreciate the passion and smart design that went into Pathfinder 2e.
We're big fans of Paizo. They put tons of passion into their products and it shows. We can't wait to play through that Beginners Box. Thanks so much for the comment and for watching the video Pit Wizard!
People in the comments are worrying a bit too much about the two 80-page Pathfinder books thinking you need to read it all. The rules for actually playing the game are 21 pages, for both players and DM, and they are fully illustrated explaining movement, attacking, range and spell areas, etc, it's less text but the illustrations pull a ton of the weight. The rest of the books are a lot of optional stuff for you to use _after_ you are done with the introductory adventure and want to play more.
The Game Master's Guide (the DM book) is comprised by the adventure itself, which has in-paragraph monster stats (no having to switch back and forth on the book), DM tips for more storylines, plot hooks, information about the town of Otari and residents so you can make your own adventures there, rules for creating magic items and an illustrated list of magic items, encounter creation rules, trap creation rules, a beastiary (with pawns for every entry, even those not in the adventure), etc, all extra stuff you can use for future games if you really liked the introductory adventure. All optional.
The Hero's Handbook (the player book) is similar, there's only 21 pages of rules to start playing the adventure, the rest of the book is the solo-adventure, character creation rules, races and sub-races and some lore and naming conventions, backgrounds, feats, spells, and level up rules, all content for up to 3rd level, so you can make your own characters if you want to go beyond the pregens. All optional.
You are getting so much more bang for your buck. They could have just printed a 20 page staple bound rules book and put it in a box with a card board filler and call it a day, but instead you get more than twice of that in _just_ the books.
_Edited for clarity._
Thanks for the detailed response HCSR2! Paizo really put a TON of effort into making this box worth the money. And, the rules to get started aren't intimidating AT ALL. You can read what you need and then dive into the extra stuff at your leisure. Very well done, and we can't wait to play this adventure.
Admittedly I still say the Original Starter Set is better in terms of time management since I do not have to read over 100 pages worth of info to glue the rules both for players and DM's. Why do I have to read only 22 pages of the Pathfinder Beginners Box when I want to read everything just to grasp all the rules? I do not want to just be a player, I want to be both a Player and DM and if I need to do those, I have to read everything in the box............ Still, The Pawn Miniatures alone still wins over the other sets since it immediately adds more immersion and makes DM work alot easier to explain the environment and characters.
Now, I have said enough about my thoughts on the Beginner's Box because frankly, if there is anything to consider, why not buy the Starter Sets, The Essentials Kit and the Beginner's box and combine them to make one complete package? It is not really rocket science.
@@simounobrien9096 "Admittedly I still say the Original Starter Set is better in terms of time management since I do not have to read over 100 pages worth of info to glue the rules both for players and DM's. Why do I have to read only 22 pages of the Pathfinder Beginners Box when I want to read everything just to grasp all the rules? I do not want to just be a player, I want to be both a Player and DM and if I need to do those, I have to read everything in the box"
Allow me to clear this up. You only need to read the Skills and Playing The Game sections of the Hero's Handbook to be ready for the beginner adventure, that is as both player and DM, those rules are the equivalent to the Rulebook in the Starter Set for D&D.
The rest of the information is for you to do _more_ beyond the starter adventure and beyond what the Starter Set and Essentials Kit offer on the D&D side, things that you would need to buy the Dungeon Master's Guide to do like creating magic items, creating traps, creating encounters, etc, etc. You are basically just getting more than you are paying for.
@@BasicLiches Man I would really love to see you guys play through this, will be looking forward to that video!
@@simounobrien9096 You don't have to read over 100 pages. You get to read over 100 pages. You have to read about 20 pages. Anything more than that, you do because you've decided it's worth your time.
If you've decided you want to know how to create characters, that you want to do the solo adventure, that you want to know how to build new stories, that you want to know about the setting and characters, isn't it good to have that material? Surely having all of that material in the box is better for time management than using the DnD starter set and then driving back to the store to find more.
I'm a veteran Pathfinder player and GM and made the move from 1e to 2e. This Beginner's Box is SO good to get people up to speed. The adventure is designed to teach you the rules as you play. You get combat, skill checks, conditions, puzzles... It's so well done. Not only is this box well designed, but also it leads into 2 other products so that you can continue and expand on the adventure in there by playing more stories in the same town: Troubles in Otari and Abomination Vaults (which Paizo also just released a 5E conversion). The folks at Paizo really thought through how to get people a robust taste of the system, give them a follow up intermediary product of short adventures, and then a longer term megadungeon as a campaign. Wizards has nothing like that that to bring players step-by-step into their system.
Excellent points Eric! Paizo's product development team seems to be on another level compared to WotC. We're looking forward to diving into the BB adventure and then maybe Troubles in Otari. Thanks for taking the time to comment. We appreciate it!
Very good points on the D&D Starter Kit. Very lacking in things to help completely new players. $20 plus tax for a very short campaign and an incomplete dice set.🤨
Meanwhile Pathfinder provides a bunch of stuff to help new players. The guide cards, the colored dice to help new players, the monster tokens, the battlemap, the big books, the amazing character sheets, etc. The Pathfinder box is a tremendous kit for new players.
Overall Pathfinder shows a whole other level of production value and quality from the D&D starter kit.
Couldn't agree more. We really push reviews like this because we want to see more effort from our favorite tabletop game, D&D
@@BasicLiches exactly.
Dnd isnt in my top 10 favorite systems, but I still cheer every time they actually improve the game :)
If it was a true DnD starter kit (PH, MM, DMG, full dice set, and an adventure) I bet it'd cost over 100 dollars lol
So great to see fans of 5E holding WOTC accountable for their shoddy products. Pathfinder 2E drew me in with how unbelievably accessible it is. 5E was getting hard to run with how much it expected me as a DM to do, I heard Pathfinder 2E was nicer and had a look. I learned how to run the game for free from their online tools which are easily searchable for any questions I have while learning or even at the table. It's a bit tougher to learn but once you start running the game the system does so much of the work for me I didn't feel like I needed to keep making rulings and worrying about remembering those rulings if they come up again later. Items are balanced by level which make shopping and balance take minutes rather than hours. Monsters actually do unique and interesting things so I don't feel the need to homebrew all the time. I've recently hopped into their adventure paths and man the quality is stellar! I really hope One DND deals with a lot of those pain points so I can hop between systems. WORC is hiring everyone they can from Paizo so I'm hopeful. Although for the moment I'd rather stick with Pathfinder 2E.
Thanks for comment BasementMinions! We must admit we seem sort of shocked with how many channels were heaping praise upon this latest Starter Set. Maybe we just expect more from our products. If the Starfinder Beginners Box is anything like the Pathfinder box...it's something we gotta check out!
@@BasicLiches in other words, Pathfinder 2e is even more streamlined than 5e. Calling 5e complex because it expects you to do more as a DM is like saying you are drinking Coors Light expecting to get a buzz on. AD&D and earlier versions of D&D had all the calories
@@Nexusofgeek
I've heard it be described like this;
Pathfinder 2e has a very high depth to complexity ratio, while D&D 5e has lower depth to complexity. With a weight metaphor you could say although PF2e is heavier, it's consistent and well designed; ergonomic, and thus can be picked up easier.
I’m pretty sure the extra pawns in the PF2 Beginner Box can be used in the Trouble in Otari adventure (levels 2-4) that is a natural continuation of Menace Under Otari.
Good call, we're looking forward to givin it a shot!
The green pawn base is a random sample to promote other colors of base packs that are a paizo website exclusive: red blue and green pathfinder branded and yellow orange and purple starfinder branded.
Oh sweet! Thanks for crackin' the case beamersrq!
@@BasicLiches An advantage of the colored bases is that they can be used to differentiate the pawns during play, instead of having to rely only on positioning to identify which of the four identical pawns is which. It helps the GM and the players to call out who/what they are attacking.
I love the perspective of "never played Pathfinder" coming into this. I'm interested to see how you like the game!
Thanks Jacob. We're in the process of playing through Stormwreck Isle. We will break into the Beginners Box Adventure shortly after. The plan is to do video reviews for each adventure.
I have to say, as a 5e proponent who always said the PF1 beginner box was better than Phandelver, I'm kind of pleased to hear that the tradition is going strong with PF2 beginner box trouncing Stormwreck. It also makes such a difference when you FEEL like you're getting great bang for your buck, which Paizo really knows how to supply.
Dael!! Thanks for watching, we've been fans of your channel for years! Paizo is killin it out there and very few are noticing. We really hope the tides of popularity bring them the recognition they deserve. Got any tips for a couple of basic liches? =P
I recently got into D&D a couple months ago. I wasn’t sure what to buy, so I bought both the D&D 5E starter set, as well as the Pathfinder 2e beginner box. I was amazed how lacking the D&D starter box was… I mean, there’s even a cardboard box insert to take up space.
Comparing that to the Pathfinder box, I was blown away by everything included. All the books, the 2-sided map, all the player tokens, and a full dice set. Now THAT is a starter set. I think a map is almost essential for a beginner who isn’t used to theater of the mind, or just has trouble imagining distances and where creatures are. A visual aid is fantastic.
Back in the day I bought the D&D Basic Game (the 3.5E starter set), and it came with a TON of stuff. Map, dice set, and a ton of pre-painted minis. Now THAT was a great starter. The 4th Edition set even included enemy tokens. Now the first 5th edition starter included a level 1-5 adventure… and now the Stormwreck starter is just a level 1-3 adventure. It just feels like they’re getting cheaper and cheaper.
It certainly does seem like they're skimping out with each new Starter Set. The Essentials Kit must have been an anomaly because it actually had some decent stuff in it!
I play 5e and I'm still fairly new to it, one thing I've noticed about Hazbro is that they're very aggressive with advertising and promotion and that mentally leaks into the way they focus their products, its too player focused but the actual running of the game is very "we dont know just make it up" , it looks to me that pathfinder is worth a look, I'm going to be checking them out, they seem to value the DM/GM much more, I respect that
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. We're hearing the Siren song of Pathfinder as well! We agree that WotC basically expects each DM to figure out their products. Have a lichin' day!
You were right, there was a quarter inch of cardboard in the PF2 box...:
The Pawns!
Pawns for days! At least the cardboard was useful in the PF2 box. Thanks for the comment!
Alien, Call of Cthulhu, and RuneQuest have really impressive starter boxes. I love that both the Call of Cthulhu & RuneQuest boxes have solo adventures that help to teach you the rules, too.
Very true. We've got that Alien starter set and it's sooooo good! Same with the Call of Cthulhu. Glad to hear about RuneQuest being rock solid too. That system has been tempting Wolf for a while. Thanks for the comment!
This is a great comparison. As a long time 5e player who recently got the PF2 Beginner Box and played with my kids for the first time, the Beginner Box was really great. Easy for all of us to follow, very easy prep, and very engaging. Totally worth the cost.
*Shakes Head* There was a person in the comments talking about how he would pick D&D Starter Set any day over Pathfinder's Beginner Box just based on the length of the books provided. "When I buy something, I will read all the material!"
When the initial adventure ends and the players want to play some more next week, what does the DM/GM do? WotC prefers (expects) they buy the books, right? Paizo, doesn't assume the people who buy the Beginner Box have the other books; making the extras very useful for the new GM to start making adventures of their own right away without any more financial requirements.
I'm sure that person would have a conniption if he was shown the Firefly RPG... "over 300 pages! I can't read all of that just to play a game!" (That's how the person sounds) and when he's told that a lot of those pages are superfluous fluff (lore, background of places, organizations, governments, lots of suggested plot hooks, an adventure, and over 10 premade characters; not counting the crew of Serenity), he would still say "It's too much for me to read, I won't play it".
Which gets me to Pathfinder... he would have a heart attack if he ever saw the size of the tomes Paizo deems their Core Rulebooks (PF1 and PF2) need to be, lol. Unlike D&D, Paizo puts all the rules into the primary book... the book the players and GM must have access to to play the game.
Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook contents:
After the table of contents and some artwork (3 pages), _Chapter 1, Introduction,_ begins on page 7 and ends of page 31.
Page 32 is artwork leading to _Chapter 2, Ancestries and Backgrounds,_ which ends on page 65.
Page 66 is artwork leading to _Chapter 3, Classes,_ which ends on page 231.
Page 232 is artwork leading to _Chapter 4, Skills,_ which ends on page 253.
Page 254 is artwork leading to _Chapter 5, Feats,_ which ends on 269.
Page 270 is artwork leading to _Chapter 6, Equipment,_ which ends on page 295.
Page 296 is artwork leading to _Chapter 7, Spells,_ which ends on page 415.
Page 416 is the map of the Inner Seas region of Galorian, leading to _Chapter 8, The Age of Lost Omens,_ which ends on page 441.
Page 442 is artwork leading to _Chapter 9, Playing the Game,_ which ends on page 481.
Page 482 is artwork leading to _Chapter 10, Game Mastering,_ which ends on page 529.
Page 530 is artwork leading to _Chapter 11, Crafting and Treasure,_ which ends on page 617.
Page 618 is the start of _Conditions Appendix_ which ends on page 623.
Page 624 through 627 are the _Character Sheets_ which can be photocopied.
Page 628 through 638 is the _Glossary and Index._
Pages 639 and 640 are advertisements for other Pathfinder books.
GMs don't need the Gamemastey Guide to run a game -- although it has very important tools in it (step by step process on how to make adventures, encounters, campaigns, etc.), variant rules, rules on how vehicle combat works, etc. -- it's completely optional. Whereas, D&D's Dungeon Master's Guide contains information that isn't available to the players, including information that the players should know about.
Unfortunately, Paizo messed up... and some of the important character creation options (mandatory for Clerics and Champions [Paladins]) are at the back of Chapter 8, causing the player to flip back and forth during character creation, and might even force them to look at chapter 7, Spells to choose their domain spell(s).
Thanks for the comment, good points here, different stroke for different folks, some people like streamlined, some people like deep and explained. We like Dungeon Crawl Classics, like TTPRG rulebook is like 400-500 pages. We know people who turn down games just by the thickness of the rulebook.
Super glad this popped up in my recommended section! I already have the PF2e beginner box and figured the new 5e Starter Set was going to be pretty barebones in comparison, but wow.
Y'all are a really fun couple of guys, I'd love to see you and your table stream the two boxes!
Hey sheimeix, Thanks for watching! Live plays are on our list for the future, the challenge comes with the equipment/manpower and talent required for those sorts of things to be successful.
Has anybody here mentioned archives of nethys? You can view every single rule available for P2E available in a searchable wiki if you're curious about what else is out there. There's also excellent free character creators such as pathbuilder 2E (online / Android) if you want to explore other character classes / options.
Those are great resources, thanks for the tips and thanks for watching!
Being a big 5e player and just starting Pathfinder 2e (1st real game next Sunday) I really feel that the 5e set is a "My First Dice set" with a 30 minute story to justify the extra $16 you spent on it. Now that you have this and still don't know what to do with it you now need to buy a book. If someone helps you or you actually look before you buy you spend $50 on a PHB if you just guess you get the DMG and realize that not everything is there so you go back and burn another $50 on the PHB. The starter sets are a money grab. I like the original starter set as it was what I feel was a better starter guide and story. It even had a 7 piece dice set. Pathfinder has to give you a lot more to justify the price as you can find the entire game online on a site I believe Piazo operates.
Perfectly said Nick! Let us know how PF2E treats ya!
I like how the Pf2 sole adventure would allow someone who has never played a TTRPG to run it and then feel much more confident with being the GM for friends or family members.
Absolutely! It does an amazing job teaching the rules to the GM and players.
Wow. This is the first time I actually wanted to learn how to play Pathfinder! I started DMing with the Essentials Starter kit, and I thought it wasn't too bad. I added in some content from the AI book that came out at the same time, and some of my own homebrew. I bit off more than I could chew, of course, but the EK really helped keep me on track and get the gist of how to run an adventure. Tons of great little reference cards and artwork. This new DnD Starter Set seems like it sucks, though :(
Hi Cara! The Essentials Kit is our favorite of the three "starter" DnD products. It feels like the only one that someone can crack open and have almost everything they need to start playing. The Pathfinder Box is a tremendous value and has us wanting to try that system for the first time! We will report back with a video once we finally play through the Beginners Box. Thanks so much for dropping us a comment and sharing your EK experiences!
Paizo's products are absolute gems! I highly recommend some of their books even as just a source of inspiration. For example Secrets of Magic has treatise on the four magical traditions (divine, primal, arcane, occult) and a page dedicated to each magic school (abjuration, divination, etc.). Book of the Dead is written from the perspective of a lich - it starts with him being alive and slowly shifting his outlook on existence the longer he's been undead. Each page has a statue and it slowly crumbles as the book progresses. Paizo make really neat pocket editions of some of their books that are super comfy to use. Hope to hear more of your PF2e adventures! ^.^
We've started playing PF2E! So far we're loving it. And you're totally correct about the books...just wonderful. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. Have a great day!
Just found this channel, and gotta say that your setup is pretty dang good for a small crew. This video made me pretty psyched for a video were you guys run through the adventures, so I hope you do make those videos!
Anyways, thanks for the walkthrough :)
Thanks so much for the awesome comment KingsOfYore! We just got some brand new lights and tweaked our setup. Glad to hear you dig it!
As a fairly new channel we're a little ways off from livestreams or recording our sessions. But we are playing through Stormwreck Isle right now and will give a full blown review as soon as we're finished.
@@BasicLiches if thats what it takes to keep the current quality, then I'll take it :D
It has often seemed to me that the more people dive into PF, the more they realize that this is the game they wanted to play all along. It's like the answer to every little disappointment you had with 5e.
One of my favorite pass times these days is going to 5e homebrewing communities and seeing just how close they are to retrofitting 5e to be PF2E. Just go to any of them and count how many of them are making changes to 5e that PF2E has already done and built upon. It's hilarious, but also infuriating because these people want to play PF2E in their soul, but they've been so misinformed, or are too scared, to take the plunge into a different game.
We're excited to give it a shot! Thanks for watching!
@@rpgbouncer9961 exactly. That's the reason I still watch some dragon content and reason to keep watching these reaction videos. I hope more people watch this and inspire them to give Pathfinder a try.
I ran my first campaign of 5e for about a year and I ran into a lot of little things both as a GM and for my players that we wanted to have and couldn't find w/o homebrew or buying new rulebooks. From reading the Pathfinder 2e core rulebook it answers almost all of those points, every level up actually gives you new things, there are ways of upgrading/crafting your own weaponry and armor, the three action system seems way smoother and more realistic than 5e, the class system seems way less restrictive because you can pick and choose feats to suit your play style instead of being locked into having certain abilities by your subclass. People say Pathfinder is "crunchier" but really that just seems to mean they actually made a complete game system not a skeleton of a system that the GM has to fill out for them. I think this is why 5e is so popular with people who are mostly into RP because it's easy to pick up and you don't have to worry too much about the game mechanics because there really aren't that many there unless you add them.
You sound like you work for the company. I've gotten into both, and I can tell you if you think PF is more complete than 5e, you do not know very much about 5e.
Thr Pathfinder box really is a good option as it gives you everything needed to start your game. Let's you make your own characters and adventures by giving you the bestiary in back of the GM book. And it is not just creatures from the adventure.
Yeah, people are freaking out a bit too much about the size of the books thinking you need read them all to play when in reality you only need to read tops 20 pages to get started. That's even less than the Starter Set. They are really good at explaining the game and being concise, the illustrations carry so much of the weight.
The more we dig through it the more impressed we get!
Agree with everything you said except the name thing. Naming your first character is such a great moment. It lets you know that this is *your* character.
Very true! And it's not something we wish to rob from our players. We're just thinking about how fast you can open up the box, tear through the rules, and invite people over to play. We've had people totally freeze up when it comes to naming their characters lol. So sometimes we like if the decision has already been made. A better option would be to have some blank characters sheets along with the pregens. But this starter set doesn't include rules to roll up a new character. Thanks so much for the comment Zachery!
Or you can just have them override the existing name in the PF2e box. There's no reason for you not to do that. Though admittedly people may feel queasy renaming an already named character.
After watching the video and playing with my kids this weekend (ages 7 and 9) The evaluation is spot on. The different colored dice were a god send. The action trackers were good for them to learn. As far as the colored base. I dont know if its the real answer but i ran into issues where there were two different types of monsters. Normally 1 different from the group. The colored pawn let me and them know what monster was different. Often the different color base was the harder to kill monster. It was very intuitive and enough visual aid to keep them on track and have a good time.
Awesome! We're so excited to crack into the BB and try it out.
Can confirm that this is the point of the random colored base. Sometimes it’s helpful to call out one similar creature from another.
Your unboxing of the D&D product is spot on. You have confirmed what my toughts are on the starter sets and essential kit: no one teaches you how to DM. To me, every starter sets lacks a third small manual that tell the players and the DM how the game is played and how is to be mastered. Lost Mines was a great introduction adventure, really easy to master, but lacked a lot of advices and tutorials on how people on a table should play it. Wizards of the Coast doesn't want people think grid play is mandatory (in Pathfinder, at least 1e, is mandatory as being a child of 3.5), but they could really give advices on theater of mind, telling people that grid play is possible and giving some hints on that. I always tough that Starter Set should teach the people (players and DM) how to play from scratch, Essentials Kit should teach people how to create new characters, and teach the DM how to run more advanced games up to wilderness exploration, thanks to the usefull map, screen, cards and additional dice. In an ideal world, after mastering both boxes, you should be ready for the core books, having no tutorial in them (expecially on how to DM).
Paizo products seems really wonderful and well written.
Perfectly stated! Thanks so much for the awesome comment!
Great video guys. The funny thing is that the beginners set of both PF1 and Starfinder are amazing introductory products of the same level of quality
Wolf maaaaaaaay have just purchased the Starfinder Beginner Box for Kmo's birthday! So hopefully we can cover that at some point in the near future!
I've played the EK a little with my group, and I learned more tips and tricks from this video than I feel I got out of the EK. Having recently bought the starfinder beginner box, I feel like Paizo really sucked me into that universe. Having the starfinder experience I really want to dive into the pathfinder beginner box to learn their system. I didnt get that feeling from the d&d EK that i have, and i didnt really see any reason to get their new starter set now. I'm still going to use the EK from WotC because I bought it. EK blows away this new d&d starter set, usually products are improved apon. That's not what I'm seeing WotC doing from this video. Thanks for the heads up on what I can expect. Awesome content!
Thanks so much for this awesome comment Michael fet! Glad we could help out. The EK is easily the best starter set product for DnD. Kind of head scratching that they went backwards with this latest release.
Extremely well explained. Appreciate the way you break everything down, especially what you’re paying for. Keep up the great work
Thanks so much Hank! We appreciate the positive feedback and will do our best to keep improving!
Paizo always put a lot of care and attention into their products so i'm not surprised the beginner box is so good. But i'm sadly surprised that WotC have done such a flimsy version of what is an important box. Along with Spelljammer being really thin, it seems like WotC are just not putting the love into their products lately. It's a great shame. Anyway, good review!
Thanks for the comment Olly! It's a bummer that WotC is sputtering out like this. Just because they're on top, doesn't mean they can pump out sub-par products. Eventually, enough of the fan base will get angry and demand more!
I got my 10 and 5 year old to play successfully with the pathfinder 2 beginner box
Awesome! Need more kiddos playin ttrpgs, kids have better imaginations for it anyway =D Thanks for watching Aamir!
I play both systems but I GM Pathfinder because the beginner box was so accessible and easy to run, despite not having much experience with the system before. I think WotC should step up their game, since the new DnD players who are trying to learn the game deserve better.
Thanks for sharing Fuzzlekins! We were blown away by the Beginners Box. Just an amazing product. The more we read the Pathfinder rules the more we want to run it!
Those four pre-made characters are some of the Pathfinder "iconics", established characters with a set look and a bunch of background and lore. Whenever you flip through a Pathfinder rulebook you'll see their iconics popping up in most of the illustrations, rather than random adventurers that only exist in one picture. In a weird way it helps to tie the game together. The iconics even show up in the Pathfinder video games Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous, which was cool. I was playing WotR and was like, whoa, that's Seelah the iconic cleric! It meant I automatically had a bunch of insight into who she was.
A very cool concept for sure!
I’m a big PF1E player/gm and this video convinced me to buy the 2E box to dip my toes into 2E. I am intimidated jumping into running new systems but it sounds like an amazing way to give 2E a spin.
Good luck! And even if you don't end up liking it, there is nothing stopping you from playing 1E afterwards!
I just discovered this channel and your honesty is absolutely mesmerising. Totally loved the video, keep up the great work!
P.S. That music piece between the Stormwreck Isle and Pathfinder sounded like something from the PF:KM soundtrack. If that is so, I am absolutely amazed, perfectly fitting.
Thanks so much Yavor! The music is from an online subscription service that you can license for RUclips. Probably just an awesome coincidence!
Great vid!
Thanks!
I'm sure others have said it, but the advantage of the DnD starter set is that its as cheap as a DVD, or a Movie ticket and small popcorn. Just enough for the person who has never heard of it before to pick up this game he saw on 'Stranger Things' and give it a try.
Pathfinder Beginner's Box is made for someone who is going to be serious about the hobby, at least in my opinion. When you 'convert' to the 'regular rules', you can still re-use a lot of the stuff in their beginner's box, like the cardboard cutouts, dry erase map, etc.
The inexpensive cost of the DnD Starter set is a huge boon for WotC. We just feel like it might not be the best first impression of 5E. The Essentials Kit offered way more stuff and a better adventure to boot. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts with us!
@@BasicLiches Well, the way things are going, it looks like everyone will soon be looking for options other than Dungeons and Dragons (kind of glad I have PF 2e now 😏)
Brutal honesty is all Pathfinder needs ;) looking forward to that playthrough video (and watch for the critdeaths!)
Wish us luck, Federico!
One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is just how customizable it is let me put it this way currently in one of my games the whole party is playing Human Fighters like all of us 8 people playing the Same Race class combo None of us feel like anyone else is a copy of another player it is incredibly fun no one plays like another unless we want to I can’t go back to D&D 5e unless the game is home brewed to heck
Excellent point Damian! 5E is sorely lacking when it comes to character customization. It needs to be fixed with One DnD. Thanks for the comment!
I'm glad I've given up on Wizards and new DnD products
One day we will learn our lesson...
@@BasicLiches Looking through the new D&D starter one more time, I think the best part of it is the map art by Mike Schley
Great video - no comparison in terms of quality and bang for your buck. My wife and I bought a bunch of D&D Starter Sets for Toys for Tots this past xmas. Man... really wish we bought the Pathfinder Beginner Boxes. Next xmas we definitely will be!
Maybe by next Christmas the PF2e beginner box will be back in stock.
Yeah, there’s SO MUCH to unpack here. I’ve been buying D&D stuff for 30+ years without playing the game, but I finally have some games with my friends and their kids.
I used the essentials kit to teach the game, and it was great. The new starter is a cash grab. I knew that and bought it anyway. Why? I like that the artwork references the old D&D cartoon. I think wizards is a bit schizo about these products because they know most people get into rpgs by word of mouth. I don’t have stats, but I suspect starter sets get used by people who play a lot, or played 20 years ago, to introduce friends or kids to the game.
In regard to the free stuff. You only know it’s available free because you’re into the hobby already. So yeah, what they really need is more maps and dm tips and newbie friendly stuff. But I think they did the corporate dance to maximize profit at a price point that it will sell well. But of a shame.
Entertaining and honest content as always.
Great insight Gordon, thanks for the comps! Have a lichin' day!
I preordered the new starter set and miniatures for the kids from the D&D Cartoon and low and behold it was a bait and switch.
@@cryptking6283 what was? The minis?
@@Newnodrogbob Yeah. the mini's to represent the pregens are the kids, who are not the pregens
We purchased the minis and will be discussing them when we review the Stormwreck Isle Adventure. That don't have any point except to make people say, "Remember when..."
Great video. Fyi only 5 days left but there is a great Humble Bundle with Pathfinder books. $25 dollars fo4 28 items. Figured I'd mention it as it's a steal and I'd assume worth it if you don't have anything yet. After this video I'm definitely getting the starter set. Started buying alot of D&D recently but haven't played in 20 years.
Thanks for the tip ecmorel!
I’m gonna try Pathfinder now, thanks liches!
Let us know how it goes! Thanks for watching!
The colored base is for the GM to differentiate between creatures of the same type.
TBH I made the switch to PF2e when it came out and I've never looked back. 5e is pretty easy for players to get in to, but requires so much more work for me as a DM. PF2e looks harder for players, but is really intuitive once you get going. And the amount of work on me as DM in PF2e is so much less. The balance is so much better, the monsters more interesting, and the system has so many great changes. For instance medicine checks actually healing HPs, weapons special qualities making weapons types more unique, and the way the 3 action economy plays in to everything from martial feats to spell casting. Add all this to the incredible quality of Paizo products, and its no comparison.
We can't wait to play some PF2E! So far...what we've read matches what you're saying almost exactly. Thank for the comment DedmeetDM!
@@BasicLiches Well I hope you enjoy it as much as my group has. Definitely check out Pathbuilder 2e though. Its amazing for character creation, especially if you're new to the system.
the green or odd color standee is to show that it belongs to the boss or leader of the same group so you know who is the one in charge
Elite or weak monsters of the same type?
Don't hate on the cardboard filler. I love that the original starter box, Lost Mine of Phandelver, provides so much more room than the actual booklets require, because it means I can put other things in the box. A new DM might not have other stuff to fill that space, but as they create or purchase other content, having storage space in a box is nice. :P
Makes sense and definitely a good point Michael! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
I think it really shows the difference between the crunch expectations for the games upfront. As a first time DM and player when I was looking for a system to get into the smaller box set with less stuff to learn was appealing! It felt less intimidating to learn and if I did not like it less of a waste if I never ended up playing. If I had been more confident or had someone with experience to help me learn the larger Pathfinder box would have been more appealing.
That is an excellent point Britney Price! More stuff doesn't always equal a better product. There is something to be said for the lighter box and lower price point being a better entry point. Plus, DnD seems to be heading in the direction of including Digital content/videos to help players/DMs...which is honestly a great move!
That being said, Paizo has done a wonderful job making their Beginners Box super newbie friendly. We don't like crunchy, rules heavy, systems...so we were SHOCKED by how much we wanted to dive into the Beginners Box. We will report back with a video on the Beginners Box, our experience with Pathfinder, and the included adventure. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!
As much as people talk about crunch with Pathfinder for a beginner PF2 is easier to learn than 5e. The rules are built to make sense in PF2, 5e suffers from inconsistent mechanics and too many "exceptions" to the standard rule.
PF2 is only difficult when coming from 5e because you have to "unlearn" before you can learn.
For beginners I would always go with a Paizo Beginner Box
If I have one piece of advice for anyone checking out the Pf2e beginner's box, (for you two, but especially for anyone reading the comments who hasn't played that many systems) it's to not assume you know how anything works based on previous games you've played. Really that goes for any system, but especially when going between 5e and Pf2e. Really nice review! I'm looking forward to a potential review of the beginner box after you've had a chance to play through it!
Good solid advice! Thanks for watching and dropping us a comment.
Green is also default color coding in Pathfinder for "Non hostile NPCs" so for things like escort missions. So you can put an NPC on the green base.
Awesome. Thanks for the info!
Oh, so a green unit!
Great video, I DM 5 campaigns [all 5e] a month [about 23 meetings]. I do really like it a lot. I like the ethos of paizo and have managed to pick up a whole ton of stellar content [paizo], from humble bundle too.
At some mystical point I will probably switch over to PF2. Thank you for showcasing this set
Keep on killing it with those campaigns Badger Burns! Thanks for taking the time to comment.
For D&D i preffer the Essentials Kit, it has a map, 11 dice set, cards of items and sidekicks, but i think even with that, the pathfinder it's way more awesome, i need to get it!, thanks for the review!
The Essentials Kit is WAY better than this latest Starter Set.
I left 5e for PF2e a while ago. I would never go back. So many reasons to list.
Thanks for sharing Lance! We will be diving into the Beginners Box to review the included adventure. So we should have some deeper thoughts on this in the coming months!
@@BasicLiches At the end of the day. I still love D&D. But Hasbro has overly monetized it and with One D&D looming on the horizon I fear it will get much worse. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a "think tank" looking into the feasibility of micro-transactions and even NFTs lol. I am sick of buying $50 books that is sub 200 pages. The lore books for 5th edition are lacking in general. If you want to deep dive the lore you must reach back to earlier editions to fill in the gaps. Pathfinder brings a ton of value to the TTRPG space. Their products are not cheap, but they are loaded with lore and flavor. Prime example is the travel's guide that just came out. It is around 400 pages and is loaded with lore from the world down to regional cuisine and gets into what it feels like to live in these regions. It makes the world feel more alive. Hands down, the pathfinder 2e system crushes 5e. it just doesn't have the marketing to back it.
Wolf does own a few Pathfinder Books and he can confirm what you're saying regarding the content. The Paizo designers are great at STUFFING their releases with wonderful information.
And yeah, with that Virtual Tabletop coming the DnD Beyond micro-transactions will be coming as well. No doubt about that!. If WotC isn't careful they could piss off their consumer base like they did with 4E, and leave the door open for a contender like Pathfinder to knock them off their pedestal once again. The next few years will be interesting to watch unfold!
With the Phandelver Campaign looming in the WotC 2023 release schedule, "The Lost Mines of Phandelver" may be phased out in favor of this new Starter Set. This is unfortunate, as LMOP is one of the best adventures in the entire D&D line. It will go down as a classic like Keep on the Boarderlands, Barrier Peaks, Red Hand of Doom, etc.
It would be a mistake for them to replace the LMoP Starter Set with the Dragons of Stormwreck Isle. It's a mediocre adventure through and through.
@@BasicLiches I entirely agree. If the Starter Set NEEDED to be replaced, DOIP is not that old, while not as gripping a narrative, is also a fantastic first D&D experience.
The best thing about the Pathfinder set, especially compared to any of the D&D sets is that you can play it straight out of the box. There's no more reading to do than you would have before playing a new board game, even if you are the GM. It's all there for you to learn as you play. You might not get the RP/setting side straight away but the mechanics of the game are explained as you play. I honestly can't recommend it highly enough for anyone wanting to get into TTRPGs that have never played before.
The PF2e rules also include everything people want that WotC left out of 5e as well 😂😂😂 Paizo is for the customers, WotC is for the shareholders.
That checks out!
What a great and honest review. Cannot wait for the PF2e playtest review. Its coming, right?
Thanks so much. Yes we've started playing the Beginner's Box and will have a full review coming in the next month or so.
As a new person in dnd, someone who got into it and was planning to DM a game, I would have loved a box set with alot more. Essentials kit tries but doesn't come anywhere close to what you will need. I had to buy map grid, find the best one that will hold up and be useful, btw a lot of it are too small for dnd maps, bumer, also get more dice, other books. The only thing I didn't get was figurines, I genuinely hate them, they look nasty and most of them you need to paint yourself. All in all, dnd stuff creators are milking money with their products and they are less interested in players and their experience, as we can to see now a few months into 2023. Pathfinder box seems legit, and has so much. Idk I think dnd starter sets could at least have cardboard characters and usable game maps. But they know the game is already popular, and they count more on that than on being approachable to new players and dms.
Very true. Compared to the 4th Edition Starter Set it is sad how little there is in the 5E versions. Sure the quality wasn't fantastic with the 4E stuff, but it gave you a map, power cards, tokens for creatures, a solo adventure and so much more. Dragons of Stormwreck Isle is an Adventure Module...that's it. Calling this thing a Starter Set is a stretch. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment!
So, saw another comment about the green base, its to help designate whatever you want. the boss goblin/kobold/orc, a monster who has a negative/positive condition, or maybe a friendly NPC.
Thanks Axym! We also had the response that the single color base is to promote their other base colors. Have a lichin' day, yo!
Both Pathfinder 1E and 2E Beginner Boxes beat their D&D equivalents hands down. I’d love to see what you make of Pathfinder; personally I think it solves a lot of the problems and unresolved issues with 5E, it’s moved away from 3.5E that it’s now it’s own thing without being utterly incompatible. I think Paizo also recognize the perception of crunchiness, and tackle it head on here (compared to 5E, yes it’s a deeper dive, but it’s core rules does the work of the PHB and DMG in one volume).
So have you played the Pathfinder game yet? Would love to hear about that, please!
We have played through some of it. First impressions are very good! Expect a full video sometime in Q1 of 2023.
I mean I’m convinced
Thanks for watching and for the comment Junderland Games!
BL: "It really hurts our feelings when we see stuff like this"
WotC: "Hold my OGL..."
LOL
PF2 Beginner box, hands down, no competition at all. Agree with your assessment.
I don't know if this is why they include a different colored pawn base, but I use it for monsters that are similar, but different (think Yeemik in the 6 Goblin room of Phandelver).
Makes sense to us!
Love Pathfinder! I play 5E too but Pathfinder moreso. Looking forward to your playthrough.
We're still working on Stormwreck Isle adventure...but plan to dive into the BB adventure ASAP.
Im familiar with the Pathfinder from the PC games. I never played the desktop version but WOW it looks impressive. Im too lazy to DM myself but I would be happy to join a Pathfinder group !
So everything Paizo puts out rules wise is available online for free after like 2 weeks or on an official site they now host, which used to be a fan site.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember the Beginners Box giving recommendations for continuing on *from* the adventure, so if you finish it and your players want to keep going there is an official advice or products of what to do next.
Also, all the pre-gens have lore online and it's not just little things, it's like extensive built up lore.
Honestly I'd be excited to know what you guys think of the adventure if/when you run it.
Thanks for the information Cloudsora! Also, you're correct...the book gives you the ability to continue adventuring well beyond the initial introductory quest. As soon as we wrap up our Stormwreck Isle game, we'll be diving into the Beginner's Box. We'll definitely post a video with our thoughts.
I own the Dragon of Stormwreck Isle digital and first DnD product I was dispointed in and seeing the box... Happy I didn't buy it physical.
Meanwhile excited to check out Foundry version of Pathfinder 2e beginner box.
My Beginner Box had a red base instead of green. I don't know why. For the Big Bad of the adventure, maybe?
The plot thickens! Sounds like a good use though.
Nah
Stats at the back 100%. Also happy they leave names blank, every player I've introduced to the game is encouraged to make their own name.
We typically encourage player's to create their own names as well. With Pregens and for ease of getting up and running as fast as possible we tend to like already named characters. But we'd never rob a player of that experience. We'd have loved to have some blank character sheets in the box. Also, we cheat and buy the monster cards with stats so we can have them behind our screens...so the stats at the end of the book aren't a deal breaker. Thanks so much for the comment!
Pathfinder Beginner Box was my introduction to the game. After completing it, I can say it's a great introduction and can be expanded by Troubles in Otari book and the Abomination vaults book which is what our group is currently enjoying. Be warned though. it can be deadly. Our rogue got eaten
Awesome! We're started to get back into our PF2E game and will be sharing our thoughts about the system in early 2023!
I don't understand how someone can pick it up and play if there are no maps or character or enemy tokens
Honestly the more I look at PF2E, the more I realize something very important. Paizo cares far more about their product. Sure the beginners box is a little more expensive, but it comes with more than twice the effort and value. There are some flaws with the system but they’re much easier it seems to bring in line with the design philosophy while not breaking anything (looking directly at you, Aid action). And while you can totally find all of PF’s rules for free on the Archives of Nethys, there’s something to be said for the extra mile they go to explain them in the beginner box. It’s just a better product in a lot of ways if you’re willing to put in a little more effort to learn it.
Been looking at reviews of the PF2e BB lately (you all know why), and yeah, the conclusion to this video probably hits different now than it did in September.
I'm sure this is a nitpicky thing, but I feel like it's sort of.... disingenuous to say "you're only paying for 6 dice and the adventure". Like.... yes, you can get a PDF of the basic rules for free, yes, but a lot of people want something physical, and it DOES cost money to print those things out. Still kinda lame that they do give you so little, especially when the essentials kit had SO much more to it, but this is still at least cheaper than getting the PDF's printed at a store, and it's a bound book instead of just a pile of papers, so it sort of balances out a little. The essentials kit was better though, hands down. Even had more dice. lol
I think coming from the Essentials Kit it was even more of a let down. We understand that this Starter Set will be a cheap product on sale for $10-12 on Amazon down the road, but it's still lacking content. They could have tossed in those pre-painted DnD minis based of the 80s DnD cartoon. Instead, they're sold separately for more than the Starter Set! We just wanted to inform people that this thing is mostly a box of air. We're playing through the adventure now to see if that will redeem it. Should have that video posted in a few weeks. Thanks so much for the comment Arc Neo Masato!
There's some comments above about what Pathfinder is, so thought I'd comment. Paizo really took off when they got the licence from WOTC to produce Dungeon and Dragon magazine back when D&D 3rd edition was around. They started producing some modules and having stuff from there and grew. When WOTC went to 4th edition they took back the licence for the magazines but there was a perpetual license for what was 3.5 edition. So Paizo decided, rather than fold the company, they'd make their own ruleset which became Pathfinder 1st edition. Two interesting points, the concept of a crowd sourced play test for the rules (which wotc learnt from and did for 5e) and the fact that 4th d&d edition was not good. This meant that for a few years Pathfinder outsold d&d. Wizards moved to 5e to address this and then came Stranger Things and all those other things that helped it reclaim top spot, which it now has by far again. PF2 was because the PF1 ruleset needed an update and refresh after a decade or so.
So both games have the same roots.
I'm a big Paizo fan as they care about their customers, but I've tried to stay away from the what's best in what I've written above, just tried to inform about the history.
Thanks so much for the background Lewis! Love that our comment section is getting awesome knowledge dropped on it! Have a lichin' day!
Is there a comparable D&D product to the Pathfinder starter kit? It won't be a starter kit but something with similar contents.
The closest product is The Essentials Kit. It comes with more stuff than the Starter sets...but still not as much as the Pathfinder Box.
I have purchased and given away two Pathfinder 2e beginners box. I think it is the superior game. I gave away my D&D 5e starter set (the original) with the players handbook.
We're starting to see why! After we wrap up playing through the DnD Starter Set we're going to dip our toes into the Beginner's Box Adventure. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment Cat!
4:20 It literally has a paragragh entitled Game Dice beside that picture of dice.
We were talking about a visual representation, like the one found in PFBB. The Game Dice section did explain what each polyhedral die is, but not in the way we were expecting. That may not have been clear.
And now... The core rule book for PF2e is out of stock, on AMAZON! :D
Fantastic video. I have long felt D&D changed from a Role-Playing Game into a "Lets bilk the community for every dime they have".
Wizards has definitely been spiraling down in quality for quite some time. Third party material at this point is superior in quality, value, and even writing. I was excited initially for Spelljammer, but having taken a look at it, I won't be buying it. I'd be better off getting the older Spelljammer stuff from previous editions and converting it to 5e. Or just playing Starfinder.
WotC is the Blizzard of the TTRPG market.
LOL
Played the beginner box, immediately hooked. After playing dnd5e for years. Worth it and so much more fun. Most fun character in dnd5e, a quirky zero shits given goblin sorcerer. Thats it. Nothing exciting. Standard class an race. In pathfinder 2e, all within the rules, i made a gourd(pumpkin head) leshy ranger with a skeleton cat as an animal companion that i can store in my head!! Pathfinder 2e is a farrr superior game in my opinion
We've played through half of the beginners box and can't wait to finish it. Expect a video from us in Q1 2023!
Totally agree with you guys on the D&D Kit. It’s extremely lacking. I even gave mine away.
Wizards of the Coast should have stuck to writing their adventure books like they did in their 4th edition! Maps, Stat Blocks and easy bullet points right there in the location chapter while plainly telling the DM what exactly is in the location. Instead they hide DCs, traps in bloated paragraphs and you have to hunt for the damn stat blocks at the end of the books or in another book altogether in 5e!
It's basically like, WotC expects players to already have an understanding of what they're getting into even if they're completely new; placing the expectations on the Dungeon Master to teach them the basics of the game by walking them through an adventure. They tried to make it more accessible with the Essentials Kit, but the adventure wasn't really the best. The EK is by far the best-quality "starter set" WotC put out.
Paizo eschews that and expects that anyone buying the Beginner's Box is either a GM hoping to run its adventure for new players, or are all completely new and so completely thought out what concepts new players are going to be curious about and helped make it more clear through its materials. And they carefully crafted the character sheets in the Beginner's Box to make understanding them a lot better (CRUCIAL, especially with PF2e's character sheets for first-timers).
For folks also looking to get into virtual tabletop, Paizo has put official support behind Foundry. The Beginner Box is available on Paizo's website specifically for Foundry and it's sold at $29.99. It's not only an amazing tool to get into Pathfinder, but it's also an amazing tool at learning how to use Foundry in its most basic form.
The Stormwreck Isle Starter Set is a leap backwards in terms of quality from the Essentials Kit. That provided lots of extra stuff, an adventure that can be tackled in various ways, and the awesome side-kick rules. It's mind-boggling that they didn't build upon that release and make this latest product the DEFINITIVE Start Set.
My wife has been very curious about D&D. A couple years ago we bought the starter for both. So disappointed that D&D was all pre-generated characters since character creation is half the fun. We let a friend borrow D&D box and don't know what happened to it. Fast forward to this past weekend, Orlando Science Center had a D&D feature and they had the books out to create the characters and we just couldn't get through it. I got home and looked at Pathfinder and the character creation is so well done and so beginner friendly.
Like you said about D&D outselling 3:1, I think my wife will still want to actually play "real" D&D.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us! We wish the Starter Set was much better at hooking new players. Maybe they'll finally get it right when "One DnD" releases in 2024! Have a lichin' day CryptoCorner!
Yea people will sometimes stick with the hobby just for the brand recognition alone. Some will not mind playing a game that barely meet their expectation if they can tell people they're playing the game that's can easily be recognized.
@@gosubilko We found a beginning D&D game at a local game store and are really enjoying it.
I don't own either of these two products, but I do have multiple Paizo and Wotc starter sets... And yeah, Paizo crushes WotC with their offerings. But, BUT, there's something to be said about the adventures Wotc includes. You see, Paizo gives you tons of extra goodies and does a great job of teaching you to make your own adventures. But doesn't actually give you an adventure to play. The extremely short included 'adventures' are purely there as tutorials and do little else.
Wotc gives you only what you need to play, (which is not a lot), and a full, actually fun adventure. Side quests, towns, npcs, factions, shops... The adventure from the og starter set 'Lost Mines of Phandlever' is great. The WotC boxes say 'all you need for a great TTTPG is a good adventure and some dice.' The Paizo box says 'hey, look at all this cool shit you can use to play a TTRPG, now go to our online store and buy more pawns, and maps, and cards, and adventures that are sold in 6 parts, and plushies, and... at some point in time you should start to enjoy the actual game which technically needs none of this.'
I'm honestly trying to consider which is better. I'm having a hard time. If Paizo included an actually fun adventure on par with a wotc starter set, there would be no question. I think my 5e starter set cost me 5 bucks, and the pf 1e beginner box was about 25... Also to consider, I think 5e is a much better system (although the beginner nature of the product helps cut back on pathfinders immense bloat).
... they're different products. If I could choose only one, it'd be the 5e one. It's ultimately my preferred system, and I highly value good, pre-written adventures, cause they guarantee a good time. Especially when things like roll20 exist, which makes maps and pawns free.
Really y'all should probably just buy both.
We sort of agree with you. The Pathfinder BB basically has a tutorial adventure that teaches everyone how to play. While the Starter Set gives you an actual adventure. We'll be posting videos in the next month or so with thoughts on each adventure.
@@BasicLiches Maybe the 2nd edition Pathfinder BB adventure is ok, I don't own it, so I don't know. But if I remember correctly the 1st ed BBs adventure is something like 5 rooms: goblin, skill check, more goblins, trap, dragon. Done.
I want D&D to be good. I really do but, yeah... what you missed was that the solo adventure and the 2-level starter adventure has a little of everything to introduce you to hazards, traps, monsters , etc. PF goes out of its way to actually teach you how to play and how to GM. This Beginner Box is my go-to gift for friends who haven't played yet.
Most people assume that PF is "crunchier" or "math-ier" which, well... try it. Also, Pathfinder just works -- use the encounter builder and create a 5-Room dungeon. It's just embarrassing for D&D.
Oh, and you forgot the adjective "Money Grab" - way to go Hasbro...
After seeing the pathfinder box, Dnd really need to step up their game
The sad truth is that they don't have to. Being the biggest player on the market means they can shovel out sub-par products and fans will gobble it up. They're making decisions based on shareholders interests and not focusing on making fun/quality products.
I wouldn't have to buy either. However now I could consider Pathfinder