Pathfinder 2E Remaster Project - What Exactly Is It?
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2023
- Paizo has announced the Pathfinder 2E Remaster Project. What in the One DnD is this? Is this a new edition of Pathfinder? Is a 2.5 version of the game? Will it be compatible with all of your 2E books? Why is Paizo doing this? These are all great questions and we have answers! First we get down to all the facts that have been made public. Then we get into the fun speculation of what all of this means for Pathfinder 2E
If you'd like to see the official livestreams from Paizo check out the following links:
• Pathfinder Second Edit...
• Pathfinder Second Edit...
Here is the official announcement on Paizo's Blog:
paizo.com/community/blog/v574...
Here is a breakdown of all the known information:
www.enworld.org/threads/what-...
If you appreciate the efforts of Wolf and KMo please consider subscribing to the channel. We put in tons of hard work to make these videos and subscribing/telling your friends really helps us out. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch! 
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New players probably don't know but all these changes would happen with or without the remaster as it's been years of community requests haha! Paizo took advantage of the new ORC license, the influx of new players and community requests to create this streamlined version. I'm hoping the new layout of the books is better than the old ones!
I agree that this was inevitable, even if the OGL debacle hadn't happened. All the OGL debacle created in this scenario was moving the timeline from 2025 or 2026 to the same year as the OGL incident.
What, did the players ask to reshuffle the core books in such a way that you would have to essentially buy more books if you began playing the game? Or so that getting started in the hobby with just 1-2 books with great gang for the buck wasn't viable anymore? Did they ask to move Champion, Barbarian and Monk to Core 2 so that you kind of have to buy this book? Because I don't think they did. Errata+ my ass.
@@user-jt3pn8bi5p You act as though this hadn't been planned already. Paizo had planned to develop this project long before the OGL debacle. It just came sooner than they intended.
The whole point is to make the game more digestible and if that means separate books, then it means separate books. The Core Rulebook is one of the biggest downsides of PF2E, particularly in learning it for both seasoned and new players. Archives of Nethys makes this issue tolerable, but there are a lot of players who prefer physical copies and would rather have the books with them.
AoN will have both Remastered and Legacy versions on the site.
@@LiannaBabeli It was never =inevitable=. In my view, the 2e corebook's biggest problem is its language. The book feels and reads like a tech manual. However, this stems from one of the system's strengths, which is neat categorization. As for the size, this is actually the corebook's biggest selling point: you get (used to get, anyway) a great bang for your buck. Technically, you could begin playing and running games with just the core rulebook, and maybe the bestiary. Sure, after some time you would want to expand and buy some more stuff, like GMG and APG, which were good purchases, but not essential for newbies. Or, alternatively, you could stick to the bare bones and still have an ok experience. That's one book we're talking about (since you can look up monsters online if you want to go super cheap). It isn't viable now, not anymore. If you want to begin playing and running games, it's two books at the very least you're paying for now. Actually more like three, because why would you miss out on the Barbarian and Champion? Four, if you're set to have Bestiary as a printed copy. This is exactly what Wizards did with 4e. Nobody really liked it then, did they?
The book's size might seem intimidating for new players, sure, but they don't have to read the whole book, much less than half of it, in fact. I began playing PF1e with a likewise huge core rulebook. I digested it fine, and it gave me sufficient tools to create my first character and play with it. Wasn't too difficult, didn't need an app to help me out. It was my first P&P RPG character, by the way.
If someone decides to quit 5e but gets intimidated by a big, scary book, maybe they should continue playing 5e, preferably rules as written. I don't see how they will stomach and enjoy the complexity that Pathfinder has always offered. From a purely marketing perspective, I am obviously in the wrong. If several dozen thousand grogs get alienated and quit but a million new players come in, that's a net win for the company, money-wise. However, this is never a given. Moreover, by diluting your product and losing some of its traditional benefits, you don't actually attract anyone. Because why switch if it's essentially the same thing (not quite yet, but I can see it coming) and same business practices? Only now without some of the iconic stuff that does not fall within the new license.
@@LiannaBabeli I would even go as far as to make an argument that Paizo should have swallowed their pride and fear and stuck to OGL. With Paizo splitting from OGL, =now= Wizards are more in control of it than ever. They won't mess with it any time soon, they messed up too much, their stock plummeted. If it's fear or empty ambition that drive Paizo to make such drastic changes, while losing lots of iconic stuff in the process, maybe they should rethink their strategy while it's not too late. It's easy to make an argument why adapting the ORC license and changing the vocabulary makes it more difficult for newcomers to transition from 5e and from D&D in general. But it looks like Paizo are set on it. Only time will tell if they are making a prudent decision.
The removal of ability scores isn’t a rule change. It an acknowledgment that ability scores are already redundant. If you create a character using the original PF2E rules, then erase the ability scores leaving just the modifiers, this is a Remastered character now.
You can leave the ability scores on your sheet, but they don’t add any value, and are an unnecessary level of complexity for new players.
Very true! And you're right...most new players get tripped up by the difference between the two so it's probably a move in the right direction.
I understand my point is minute enough that many rather hand wave it away but ability scores changing the modifier every other number matters when you get a +1 every 4th level, of course most people rather bump it by 2 like 5e. It also matters for the point buy system and 5e feats that increase a score by 1 along with something else, of course PF(1st at least) did not have those systems.
There's 3 thing I'm looking forward with this edition:
- The new dragon lore divided by the spell traditions.. (occult dragons whoop whoop!)
- A "cantrip bomb" option for alchemists, so you can actually play a bomber without dipping into wizard for some cantrips
- the new timeline world lore where they mention the stories of the new pf2nd society games and advanture pathes. :)
We forgot to mention the part about how dragons no longer have to follow the old "metallic or color" rules from DnD of old. The "magic" based dragons sound awesome.
@@BasicLiches Pathfinder has had dragons outside the chromatic/metallic dichotomy since early in 1e. We already have many kinds of dragons, including the Imperial dragons which are based on the Chinese wuxia elements (earth, fire, water, metal, and wood. The underworld dragon in treasure vault is one of these) and primal dragons which are based on various elements of nature. The new hell-based dragon looks really cool, and I hope there's a doom slayer-inspired module in the future.
On the animal companion point, two classes in the core rulebook can have an animal companion. It wouldn't make sense to include it twice (once in tow different classes) so I see why they just placed it at the end of the Classes section.
The best ways to learn character creation right now is Pathbuilder 2e and Wanderer's Guide. Both are freemium online tools for character creation and do a lot. Pathbuilder hides some features behind a paywall while Wanderer's limits the number of characters free users can make. But both are really good at showing you your options at each level so you don't drown in options.
Pathbuilder is what I like to use, it shows all options at each level up. I paid for the full version and its only like 5 bucks one time fee
@@morrischan932 Me too
Thanks for the commentary! I’m excited to see the future of pathfinder and this channel.
Very nice summation of what's going on, and I definitely trust them because they're going to be releasing it for free anyways. It's not like if they are strong arming people into buying the new product, this really seems like a great on-ramp for new players.
Similarly a new entrant with a stack of new books. I'm interested in this, albeit a little bit guarded.
I fell in love with the structuring of the Beginner Box as soon as I cracked it open. By the time I was done reading the books cover to cover, I felt like I could probably run the box for a group and maybe even tack on a little extra adventure afterward if they really wanted it, because it includes enough extras for some baby's first homebrewing.
Then I cracked open the core rulebook. There's something impenetrable about it that I can't place. So I can understand why the books need a refit for onboarding. Even if I end up shelving these shiny PF2E books in favor of the Remaster, I'll (begrudgingly) appreciate it just for improved readability. I also have more faith in Paizo to keep the actual rules and mechanics functionally in line, so the books I have will still be useful for reference.
The Core Rulebook is really badly written for new players. Maybe the first 15% is useful and then there's 25% for magic and items mixed in the middle. For players, that's all you need to know, but the remaining 450ish pages are so intimidating to swim through. I'm excited to see the new books, hopefully they are much friendlier to understand.
With all the changes they have already announced, it is already a 2.5e. All divine classes mechanics, lot of spell rename and design, mechanics of focus points and damage types / reduction... same as 3.5e
As you said, they have the opportunity to do a new game, with optimised text and explainations, which will simplify the game that we love
The core rule book has you flipping through 3 or 4 different locations at once. They need at least 2 ribbons, at least!
Entertaining and informative as always. My biggest hope for the new remastered core book is that they keep the spirit of the Beginner's Box in mind for writing and layout. Make the books fun to read, and a wonderful way to introduce new players to the game. We know Paizo has done a great job on mechanics and an immersive campaign world. Let's figure out ease of use and usability! 😁
Honestly I loved PF1e and bought 2e with excitement for the changed up system. Though if they can give us a better comprised core, along with a more streamline ability to navigate the book, I'll be happy, because it feels like more a chore to open the book then a joy to flip through the pages.
I think mechanical changes will be mostly semantic except for the revisions to the Oracle and Witch. Reason being those classes as vastly undertuned compared to the other core classes and paizo knows this. This is a good chance to take two classes that are frustratingly bad at their core fantasies to players and GMs, and make them better.
“Frustratingly bad” is pretty hyperbolic. Witches definitely could use a second look but Oracles aren’t bad at all.
War priest giving the side eye to your comment.
oracle is fine power-wise, and mostly needs to be less complicated, tbf. it’s power is mostly fine, just not for it’s complexity
witch… needed for their hexes to be better, or to have more spellslots, which is relatively minor
warpriest is mostly fine, it just doesn’t fill the vibe people thought it would
Alchemist is in a worse spot than either the oracle or witch imo, they said they're changing them as well and I wouldn't be surprised if those changes are the most substantial. Additionally spell rebalance was explicitly mentioned, if this includes cantrip rebalancing then that could massively improve diversity of cantrip usage as right now electric arc is the default for all spellcasters (thanks to jolt coil), It could also mean improvements to the divine spell list.
if divine lance is able to work on more targets, that’s already a lot, but i wouldn’t mind more changes to benefit them
I completely agree the beginner box should be the standard for all beginner boxes. Also agree with the rule book assessment. They should follow the example of Old-School essentials, looking up fighter gives you ALL the info together for the fighter class. OSE is the gold standard for rules set up. Paizo just needs to follow this idea and it will be a hit!
THIS 100%! OSE has set the standard for readability, layout, and format. Absolutely legendary books and some of the big companies in the TTRPG world should take note.
only at 3:37 so sorry if you go into this (or if im wrong) but I got the impression that they weren't only merging aasimar and tiefling into Nephilim but the elemental races as well...and presumbly the aligment based ones like aphorite since their removing aligment
The elemental ones are not going Paizo staff had said that but I do expect that the Aphorite and Gazi will
@@creativeburst2442 thanks i wasnt quite sure when they said it in the livestream...i guess their already far enough removed from "Genasi" that they don't need to change it.
i think they will have all the old alignment ones as Nephilim. and a new race for all the elemental ones or as heritages for the other races.
Great video! Thanks for your efforts!
Thanks so much for taking the time to watch!
Oooooh a new pathfinder channel to add to the rotation, this looks like the equivalent of a 2.1 in video game terms. My intro to the core rulebook was in PDF form broken down by chapter, which makes it a lot more approachable.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching!
I've owned the P2 Core Rulebook since it first came out. I don't think I've been able to get more than 50 pages into it. You're spot on about the morass of word poop in there. A more "accessible" rulebook for players would be a huge boon to Pathfinder! While I wait for November, there's always the Archives and Nethys (free) and that Humble Bundle was a mere $25. Nothing to complain about. Very excited about the Remaster. The sooner the better.
Glad to hear I wasn't the only one who struggled with that thing. If they can fix the accessibility with these four new books I'll consider that a huge success. - Wolf
I just got the core in the mail the day this was anounced. I will pick up the other books as well. Just ordered the bestary. And will order the other 2 on friday. So when the new books come out i dont need to be in a rush to get them. Ill probably wait till their all out. But who knows.
Rules are available for free online. I understand this may piss some people off, I bought 7 books myself, but I'd rather have continuous errata over time than being stagnated.
I took delivery of my PF2 Beginner box last weekend, and I'm about to GM my first adventure, having never played TTRPGs before.
The plan to wean my group away from Gloomhaven/Too Many Bones/Root etc onto PF2 was to run the Beginner Box, then do Troubles Under Otari, then get the core rule book/bestiary
and run Abomination Vaults before thinking about some home brew stuff.
I may have to rethink that ...
The box set is still a decent entry point. I personally wouldn't go for Abomination Vaults so soon, as big dungeons have their own problems. You may find it easier to write your own dungeon levels. I would do it like this:
Make a basic reason for entry / story to engage the group.
Make a few key fixed level specific encounters for each level - some combat, some social encounters, some traps, some puzzles. Have a few criteria that opens access to the next level. Do not overload each level and have level specific wandering encounter tables ready.
Spread a few key story beats across the levels. Give the group room to run away and regroup. Build up the story and / or level tension if possible. Conclude with the dramatic final encounter/ end of story on the final level. Leave the group with story hooks for the next adventure or possible adversary.
The reason I say this is because pre written so-called 'mega dungeons' are hard to run without a lot of initial and rereading. Writing your own dungeons is not only fun, but also way easier to change when the group go and throw you a curve ball!
Then buy the new Core books when they come available. The original Pathfinder 2e core books have an awful layout and are some of the worst designed books I have in my collection. Pathfinder 2e is a decent system, but as they said on here, the books are not friendly, even to myself, and I've read many hundreds of ttrpg books.
@@Fruitbat-tb3lg Not everyone wants to or is able to spend the time making their own adventure. If you aren't able to make your own or just don't want to running a premade is great. Paizo makes great adventures and they are generally easy to understand and run than some (cough cough 5e modules)
Beginner box > Troubles in Otari/Abomination Vaults is usually a great path to follow. That's kind of what paizo planned. Just be careful because AV was balanced assuming players start at level 1. The BB ends at level 2 and TiO iirc ends at level 4. Your players will probably steamroll lots of hard encounters if they have a higher level, even just 1 level, than what the module recommends. If you go ahead with your plan just try to make sure you recalculate all the encounter XP and remove or reduce lots of out of combat XP so that your players don't stay ahead for too long. You probably shouldn't need to change the treasure since the easier levels won't be a challenge.
You could also choose to rebalance the encounters for a higher level but I'm lazy and don't want to and I don't think you do either lol. BB into AV is a great plan though.
Just stubbled upon the channel, love the name. Pretty sure I am the dopplerganger of the dude in Jurrasic park
There were Class Feats that I didn't allow at my game table because I couldn't understand them. Finally, some RUclipsr breaks it down and explains it and I think, "...well that makes sense but they sure wrote it up poorly". There is too much flipping through the book tracing a thought line to get an answer on something with things scattered about (too many examples but here's a couple; crafting, focus spells). I read the book for nearly a year before I ran a game. Reorganizing for better rules explanations and to divorce from the OGL are the only reasons they need, everything else is bonus.
Totally agree. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to drop a comment.
It's Pathfinder 2.5, post D&D canon. Don't be scared, this is what we wanted.
I just bought the core rulebook, 2 weeks ago. :( Had I known this was coming I would have held off.
The current core rulebook is written like an encyclopedia. Feels very nostalgic reading it. However, I do understand how it's considered very INEFFICIENT. Hopefully the Remaster CRB will be better
We have such high hopes for the Remaster CRB!
In looking to build a collection of P2 books, it seems prudent to avoid buying the four core rulebooks being remastered until the new core books are available starting this Nov. It's a good bet that the other Bestiaries will receive similar treatment as Bestiary 1 in the future, I'm guessing. Do you think it's a safe bet to pick up tomes like Guns & Gear, Secrets of Magic, etc. though?
Ya they said it's safe
The fact that Archives exists and is free, shows that Paizo cares about more than the bottom line.
How is the bonuses going to work 18+ or above 5
IMHO, I kinda *do* see this "remaster" as a .5 update. But since my group and I are still all Pathfinder 1E players who never made the transition to 2E, we may well skip 2E completely and wait a few months to go straight from 1E to 2.5 "remaster".....?
FYI, most of the players in my group have been playing D&D (and TTRPGs in general) since 1981 (!) starting with Basic D&D Red Box, then over the years moving on to AD&D 1e, 2e, 2.5e (AD&D 2e + "Skills & Powers" etc splat books), then on to 3e, 3.5, then we tried 4e, hated it, and skipped to Pathfinder 1e where we've stayed ever since. We also play FFG Star Wars occasionally just for a change. Never played D&D5e, and after the Wizards/OGL debacle earlier this year, likely never will go back to any form of D&D...
It's moving from the OGL to the ORC. Because of that, this is 2.5E, but should really be called 3E because it is HUGE if you are a third party publisher. Old material under OGL but new material under ORC. Licensing nightmare.
Very true about the third party licensing. We did not even think about that. Good call!
@@BasicLiches Third parties are going to need to do everything under OGL until all 4 books are out, then disregard EVERYTHING that came before and release under ORC. Another note, if you want to release for the ew version, you can never use the gunslinger in your work. Either that, or you release under two different licenses, attempting to delineate what material is covered under which license, and face potential legal action. If you think Paizo is not above a copyright lawsuit, you've fallen for the corporation friend myth.
@20:50, A-MEN BROTHER!! Yes, I am pissed. I moved my 4 players over from 5e and we buy the Humble Bundle and a couple of hard cover books and then we get this announcement! We are still learning the system. Now my players are like, "We shoulda waited."
It's like buying a used self-driving electronic car. Then have the Government issue a safety patch that will invalidate the previous car because it can't handle the new software. And then you find out that the person that gave you that deal on the car? Yeah, They KNEW the car would get invalidated and didn't tell you! And after I had to convince 4 other players to come over. And now since this platform is unstable they all want to wait and see what Daggerheart, or BlackFlag (Valiant) are going to have to offer...
The demand was so high they emptied out Paizo's warehouse. How many people does that account for? How many players and groups do you think have similar feelings right now? How many retailers finally got their order of 10 HardCover Core Rulebooks and Advance Players Guides that basically know they will never sell them (you think I'm making that up - all the back orders go fulfilled just recently in my area for 3 different stores)?
This is all going to take at least a year. The motivation and urgency will be GONE. A lot of us converters will probably slip back to 5e (unless WotC does something else dumb). I feel like Paizo just nulified the best argument I had for moving my players toward Pathfinder.
Eh. None of the old content is being nullified at a table level. Everything changing will still be free to look up on archives of Nethys. This isn't a 3.5 style must buy. It is a safety net to save litigation from WotC time and money wasted in future.
The way I see it, especially as someone who plays in a D&D setting, is that the old books will be still very valuable and useful. Some of the old OGL compliant stuff I will still make use of, especially monsters, some of which won't be making the change to the remaster. Also not all of the core classes will be done with the remaster until July of 2024, so those books will still be in date until then, which is more than a year from now.
Also, they're not making sweeping changes to the system. You do not need to buy the new books, the old ones will still be compatible with everything else, and if you want to see the changes you can get them for free on Archives of Nethys
That sucks. Convincing people to try something other than 5E can be a huge pain...and an announcement like this can knock the wind out of the DM/GMs sails. You run the risk of learning the system now and then having to learn any tweaks and changes in November (and beyond). Best of luck and thanks so much for watching/commenting.
Personally, I'm alright with all this in major part because I really don't see a better option for what they're doing, that being getting their system out of the OGL and into their new ORC licence.
Even if 95% of the changes are just going to be terminology shifts (like Magic Missile becoming Force Missile) to not be breaking copyright, that's still enough that they definitely can't really just make an online document saying what they'll be using going forwards and leaving it at that--they need to have an actual book that compiles all this. This effectively leaves them with two options: major errata for the original core books, or what they're doing here where they compile it all into new "remastered" books.
The issue with the "just errata" option is that by doing so will mean all the pdfs and online sources Nethys will naturally be updated to the fit the new version of it... thus effectively making people lose access to any of the old stuff that couldn't get carried over (mostly various monsters, but then also some player options like different dragon themed options that'd let you choose from the various metallics and chromatics, which presumably in the remaster versions will instead include a list of non-OGL dragons instead), making discussions on books much harder (Having to say "Core Rulebook" vs "Player Core" instead of "Pre-5th printing Core Rulebook" vs "Post-5th printing Core Rulebook" which I can imagine would cause a major amount of confusion), and not actually solving any of the issues of things getting "invalidated". Plus, by going with a new book does give them a chance to solve one or two specific pain points with the system (Namely the Alchemist and Witch classes which they specifically stated are getting a remaster in this) without causing too much issue
I'll also say that as others have pointed out that this also won't really invalidate the old books, at least any more than a new printing would. Sure, going forwards other books will mention its terminology for things instead of the OGL ones, but that's pretty easy to deal with imo. As well as that, even with rules that are changed it's not like there hasn't been those in book printings either: The alchemist has famously gained entire class features through errata for example, yet it doesn't make me feel like my old 1st printing of the CRB absolutely riddled with discrepancies from how the game is now is "invalid" (plus another thing which'd really increase the validity of the "It's effectively just errata+" statement being the fact that given the timing it's simply impossible for it to be much more: even if they literally started working on it the day they announced the ORC licence, that's still only 11 months from inception to printed, shipped and arrived at stores world wide for them to make this whilst also keeping up with their normal release schedule. There's simply not enough room for it to be a massive overhaul given the amount of work that is to make)
At the end of the day, Paizo is between a rock & a hard place where they kind of have to make new books but also making the new books will cause many people to end up feeling dejected, even with the "they could have announced it earlier" thing, there really wasn't even that much room to do that. Given how the devs have mostly described various decisions + the timing of when ORC was announced, I really can't see them physically being able to announce it much more than like a month without it ending up boiling down to "uhh, we're remastering PF2, we'll give details and release date later" (what given the total lack of info would almost certainly increase the current worries on it rather than decrease it).
Sorry for the incredibly long message, I am atrocious at brevity.
You won't have to relearn the system, most of the changes is just renaming. This is not the last time Paizo makes errata changes, they make some every year when they reprint the core book. It's fine tuning and rebalancing + rearrangement.
13:30 - The game isn't all that crunchy and the rulebook is/was pretty easy to work with. The problem was a certain RUclipsr (Take 20) who was very popular put out a video slamming it about 2 years ago - and people believed him without even looking.
I wonder if Pathfinder revised would include lore and rules from Starfinder. I'm wondering if I should buy the Pathfinder solidarity bundle and I don't want to waste my money. Thoughts?
20:50 is 100% spot on. I just bought ALL of the digital books through the pathfinder nexus and every single latest printing of physical book I could find. Thousands (plural) of dollars in a couple of weeks and all of a sudden they are going to be "still compatible but obsolete". I am pissed about that.
Certainly a reasonable reaction (and we'd def be pissed too if we spent all that money)!
It's a 5th printing, it's no different than when they do errata once a year on the CRB. You don't see people buying the newest printing every single year.
@@louisst-amand9207 From what is being described by Stephen Glicker, Mark Seifter and Erik Mona it is going to be way more than a simple 5th printing. From what they were discussing, I would call it a complete restructuring.
@@Vision667 you don't need to buy the restructured books to get errata when paizo will release an errata document...
@@louisst-amand9207 Some of you are missing the point. Jumping into a new game system, this is the system, oh wait no, "this" is actually the system now. I don't have to buy the books? Okay, I sit here with my old books, with all the old rules, creatures, and mechanics, that the game no longer uses and do what with them? I play out of date, obsolete Pathfinder of course! Just what I wanted to spend my time and money on. Like I and most everyone else are not going to buy the new books when they comes out. The situation just sucks, nothing more nothing less, for new players who have already committed and made the investment.
This tells me that Hasbro didn't actually lose that lawsuit. They just had to up the ante. It wouldn't suprise me if WoTC gets say over the final draft.
Am I the only one who remembers that Paizo was going to fight wizards over the ogl? Great fight, they knuckled under without a fight. No stats no alignments? Not for me I won't be playing it. I understand changing dragons named monsters. But nope I'm pissed and won't be playing.
Man, trying to understanding the Mutagenist Alchemist was particularily hard to understand.
Part of me feels bad for saying this on a Pathfinder vid, but I really miss your d&d content. Still my favorite content creators/channel but definitely missing your opinions and vids on the new One D&D stuff. Especially since the latest vid of Perkins explaining DM guide and how CR won't be changing and why.
Never say never! We still got love for the game of DnD (and always will). Right now we're just not super jazzed about giving free publicity to WotC/Hasbro. But we have had discussions...Stay tuned and thanks so much for the kind words!!!
I will buy the new books for Pathfinder but I'm not going to use their new rules until they get all four books. So I'm still going to use that. I'll come. That's exactly how they the books says. I used the alchemist now. Once they have those new all the new rules all four then I'll power by them. I know it will but until then it's baseline 600 pages for the core on a really care about that. It does not bother me so that's why I say
Hello guys!!!
Hi RainbowPitt! Nice to see you in the comments again!
Anyone that messes with two Liches must have a death wish. ;) Sorry just popped in my head and I had to share.
So why is it when Piazo says "Thi isn't a new edition, and people say, ok, cool. But when Wizards says the same thing, everyone ignores them and says it's either 6e or 5.5e???
Can't speak for the rest of the world...but it probably comes down to two things. History and transparency. WotC's track record as of late has been...spotty (if we're being kind). And when it comes to them announcing major changes they've been deceitful. In short, they treat their D&D players like crap and only look at them as wallets to be emptied. Also, the playtest material for One Dnd/6E/5.5E is so game altering that it seems practically impossible for it to be compatible with the current edition. Paizo isn't perfect, but their track record with their player base is much better. With this announcement they haven't tried to hide any information (unlike WotC and the OGL incident). It STILL could end up being something closer to 2.5E. We think that will be decided by the community instead of Paizo. If all the fans end up calling it PF2.5E...there isn't a damn thing Paizo can do about it. In the end whether it's D&D 5.5 or PF2.5, all that matters is that the finished product is amazing. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
They are removing anything that is OGL from their books
Nephilim is a better name anyways
My favourite change is forgoing the alignment system. I can now worship some fun de(mons)ities like Lamashtu or Baphomet without being locked into neutral or evil alignment. Their edicts and anathemas are barely evil, yet somehow you can't worship them as a liberator or smth.
Paulo must have forgotten people bought their stuff because they did D&D better than D&D, the changes are weird. Talk about snatching defeat from victory.
Again DCC one book. That's it. Just saying.
It's just one book, but I've bought it 4 or 5 times because of the awesome covers they put out lol!
Pretty disappointing that Paizo is satisfied with basically just reissuing the same system with a couple of surface tweaks, rather the actually addressing many of the weaknesses of the system that muddle and hinder actual gameplay. Slathering lipstick thick on that pig.
We're still fairly new to PF2E, but what are some of the weaknesses/things you would have like to see them address? Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment!
@@BasicLiches Ohhh, there are so, so many. But, in the interest of TL;DR, I'll just point out two aspects of PF2 that currently paint the game as amateurish and unfinished.
1) The Free, 1-, 2-, and 3-action assignments are, for the most part, ridiculous. PF1 had six different types of actions: Free, Swift, Immediate, Move, Standard, and Full-Round. The PF2 designers felt it was just too darned confusing to have so many choices, so in their valiant attempt to save the gaming world from maths, they squeezed every tiny concept into their "revolutionary" 3-action mechanic...with many laughable results.
To wit: Were you aware that it takes exactly the same amount of time and effort to drop prone - to literally fall on your face - than it does to medically treat a poisonous wound? Anyone with any actual medical knowledge might dispute that. Also, were you aware that mounting a large animal such as a horse, bull, or camel is the exact equivalent of moving your shield arm from the waist to the the chest? That's a distance of roughly 18 inches. I'm sure that revelation comes as a shock to anyone who routinely clambers up onto these not-so-mindless beasts. Or the topper of toppers: Were you aware that walking 20 feet is absolutely identical to taking a single step?
Sadly, these are the kinds of shenanigans that occur when game designers force square pegs into round holes. Throwing logic, reasoning, and facts out the window in order to wedge everything into a 3-action turn isn't just disgraceful...it's insulting.
But y'know, I'm not the type of person who gripes about something without also providing a solution. A revamp of the action assignments is absolutely necessary and I'll be the first one to tackle that project if Paizo wants it done correctly. I guarantee that I'll put in more time than the 15 or so minutes it took them to do it.
2) The inherent penalties for a player who wants their character to use a shield are mind-boggling. First, the character is forced to take the crafting skill to repair said shield. Well, not FORCED, specifically. I mean, there are other options if you don't want your character to be a part-time smithy. Because this is PF2, right? The system that touts limitless and diverse character options and the freedom to choose whatever you want! So sure, you CAN forego the crafting skill. But hey, SOMEBODY'S gotta repair that thing - so I guess you could just harangue a party member with more trained skill options to repair your shield during the party's downtime. It goes without saying that the cleric or wizard would love to repair your shield during their 10-minute rest rather than recovering a focus point, right? Or you could just hang out in the city from level 1-20 and pay the local smithy to repair your shield after every fight. Or you could pay a hireling to travel with you and hammer out the dents after every encounter. Or you could just buy a dozen shields and lug them around with you on a cart to swap out when they get destroyed - which is every other fight, more or less. You may think: "Hold on! What about my armor that gets hit every fight and my weapons that hit things every fight? Don't they get damaged and need repairing as well?" Well, lucky for you Paizo just said "Nah!" and hand-waved all those pesky facts. BUT WAIT...THERE'S MORE! A shield doesn't help you in any way unless you spend a precious action every round to make it so. Every. Single. Round. Not only is your melee character sacrificing damage output by having to take shield feats rather than combat feats, they also get penalized every round by actually having the audacity to USE the item for which they've already sacrificed. And here's the creme de la creme: By using a shield, you get to take damage TWICE! Lemme 'splain: Let's say you're using a shield that has 10 Hardness. The baddie hits you with an attack that does 20 damage. Because you took the Shield Block feat and used an action to raise your shield on your last turn, your shield absorbs 10 of that damage, leaving you to take the remaining 10 damage. AND IT GETS EVEN BETTER! Your trusty shield ALSO takes the same 10 damage! Not you OR the shield...but BOTH. So your character is still effectively taking 20 damage, because you have to spend time, effort, and resources to address both the character's health AND the shield's efficacy. And lastly, just two other quick tidbits: A) No matter how crappy or how powerful your shield, you get the same +2 bonus to AC. Your character can nail together a couple of pieces of driftwood and strap it to their arm, and it would provide the exact same protection as a mythical shield forged from elder dragonscale and enchanted by a deity. No difference. And B) Since your shield isn't a part of your AC until you spend an action to ready it, anything and everyone that attacks you before your initiative in every single combat effectively gets a +2 bonus to their attack roll. I guess it's a good thing PF2 took out the flat-footed condition during initiative so nobody is penalized anymore for lower rolls, right? Now everything is balanced, right? Yeesh.
So instead of keeping the shield as an important part of combat, the PF2 designers have turned it into a severe liability. They've sadly twisted a traditional and strategic part of melee combat into an absolute joke. I'm sure the Spartans would heartily disagree.
But again, I'm not going to tear something down without the offer of building it back up. Here's how you fix the shield problem: First, as in PF1, make the shield an active part of a character's AC as long as it's equipped. Second, if a character spends an action to ready their shield, they get an extra +1 to their AC. If used for a Shield Block, the shield absorbs its Hardness in damage - but then there's a 50/50 chance that any remainder damage goes to either the shield OR the character - not both. A couple of simple changes and the shield becomes a viable part of combat again rather than a waste.
4 books...40+ dollars each...they better add something else that moving this to another book.
All of the new rules will be free, online at Articles of Nethys.
Most of this Remaster, outside of the new monsters, sounds mainly like they’re shuffling things around and consolidating feats and errata. Like, aside from the Alchemist and Champion, none of the classes in the Core Rulebook are changing (and the Alchemist has already been errata’d several times). So aside from those 2 classes (whose changes you’ll be able to access for free via the Archives of Nethys), the Core Rulebook will still be fine.
if you already have those books your not expected to buy the updated versions just like how your physical copies don't magically rewrite themselves with errata and FAQS but reprints often will
Explained in another way...Did you complain when "pocket" versions of books were realeased and you didnt have the option to shrink your existing version?
Regardless as always the rules are available for free on AON.
Some OGL only spells, monsters, and items will have to go, so they will be replacing them with either renamed version or entire new things that fill a similar niche. Those old options will still be available but we will be getting a few new things for sure. Either way, you don't need to update to these books, especially with everything free on AoN
you don't have to buy them, just like you didn't have to buy every new printing of the Core Rulebook.
This is a money-grab, really.