The Rogue Thief: PF2e #2
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- In Pathfinder 2e, if you want to be a melee damage dealer who can pretty much ignore Strength to focus on finesse, there is one best option: the nimble, backstabbing, lockpicking but hard hitting Rogue Thief.
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Character Concept/Intro:(0:00)
101 Subclasses (sponsor):(6:20)
Level 1:(9:24)
Levels 2-3:(24:04)
Levels 4-6:(29:00)
Damage Report:(40:45)
Levels 7-9:(47:45)
Final Thoughts:(54:43)
Outtakes:(58:10)
Math/Graph for this episode:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Master Pathfinder Sustained Damage Comparison:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Thanks to LudicSavant for the amazing DPR calculator! forums.giantitp.com/showthrea...)
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Errata: In the original printing of the Core Rulebook, Disrupt Prey is a free action, but looks like it was changed to be a reaction. Doesn't change my mind about its value :).
I assumed someone probably mentioned it lol
Appreciate the video, well done
One more thing, I noticed you should have 1 more skill point at level 1 that's unassigned. I think you might have missed that your Background of Acrobat gave you Acrobatics as you listed it in the 7 skills you picked up from Rogue.
If you were using Pathbuilder 2e and selected your skills before selecting Acrobat, it wouldn't automatically deselect Acrobatics from your chosen skills. If you go in and click it, you will remain trained (the text will go from orange to white, but the bubble will stay orange) but you will get the skill point back since you had it from another source. I'd recommend Society for knowing about whose best to steal from, or Crafting to know what's worth stealing.
Yeah, it went from 'a must pick' to 'a very good option'. Which is how I prefer the balance to be
I think it's important that you recognize. Normally you get a weapon property rune that deals damage at level 7 which should amount to a d6. This is not accounted for in the automatic bonus progression, it is important that you look at property runes. Items are vital for Pathfinder 2e.
I know a lot of people are suggesting magus for gish needs, but I will suggest Summoner. It is a gish style thing as well, but in a unique way I think you may enjoy.
MORE PATHFINDER CONTENT 🥳
The more the merrier!
Less.
Keep up the good work. This helps me in our table's transition too.
Mooaaar
The best part of your videos is the way you talk through your thought process. You weigh alternatives and justify the decisions you make. This is so much more helpful than just claiming to make a "best choice" about everything. Keep up the awesome Pathfinder videos!
Fscking truth.
I've loved watching Colby since his third video 😁 you best bet THIS is what made me continue watching every video. Even the ones of him just singing lol
Totally agree - especially as I'm new to Pathfinder too, that thought process is so helpful - some of the choices for this Rogue build are helpful for the Champion I just started playing, such as sorting out when to attack again vs try to demoralize.
Yes. This comment sums up the main reason I like listening to him
16:18 it’s worth noting that the goblin weapon feat gives you Access to goblin weapons. A character who has Access/meets the listed Access conditions for an uncommon item/feat/spell etc gets to treat it as common, so no GM permission needed for the weapons.
Except that the GM can veto anything
@@chrisl3314 sure, but it'd be like assuming the DM veto'ed fighters, shortswords, the Shield cantrip or the Assurance feat
@@chrisl3314 A GM veto'ing Goblin Weapons from a feature granting you access to Goblin Weapons is a humongous red flag lol
@@Crispi017 - agreed! However, the GM is "king" at all times, not all kings are good kings ;-)
LOVE the support Colby. Thanks so much!
Your intuition about access to uncommon weapons is actually spot on. Most (all?) of the ancestral weapon familiarity feats have a similar wording included as the Goblin Weapon Familiarity feat:
"In addition, you gain access to all uncommon goblin weapons."
1. Disrupt Prey is, in fact, a Reaction. It's still a good option, since you will have more triggers available for extra strikes.
2. The main difference in damage between the level 6 report and the level 9 would be the access to Elemental Runes which add 1d6 elemental damage to your attacks (Fire, Electric, Cold, Sonic, Acid) or similar runes (Serrating).
3. There's also a few things to take into account, since certain level thresholds make monsters stronger than they normally would be in a linear progression. These levels are, not by coincidence, the same levels when PCs get their Stat Boosts. Which is one of the main reasons why it's slightly more dangerous to use Extreme Boss Encounters with creatures at these levels.
4. As a suggestion from someone that has created hundreds of builds in this game already (I know, it's a problem!), the power spikes from classes are around their offensive proficiency increases (Expert at 5th and Master at 13th level) and with the Striking Runes levels (Striking at 4th and Greater Striking At 12th level).
Personally, I craft my character builds until around 10th level, sometimes 13th. You get a solid grasp on your build already with everything pretty much coming online by then and, at higher levels, you'll have plenty of experience with this character to chose higher level feats appropriated to them.
Anyway, great content as always. If more players were as willing to learn a new system as yourself, PF2e's strengths would definitely be more well known.
Re: 1 - Got it! Pinned a comment.
I of course LOVE you doing more Pathfinder content! Will watch the full ep as soon as I get a chance.
Wanna comment that SAD builds are not as AS essential in PF2, since PF2 is much more generous with ability score increases (after Level 1 you get 16 ASIs which by default give a +2 each until a score reaches 18), so at least by Level 5 you can have an 18 Strength AND 18 Dexterity. This awesomely makes the other rogue rackets eventually equal/competitive in DPR.
I really like the theme of the Ruffian rogue and wish other games expressed it more. You're a strongarm bully AND you knock people prone and don't play fair!
Very excited to see this series go past the Core Rulebook. Once you start getting into the weirder archetypes that aren't just multiclassing, that's when things really get my gears turning.
Loving the pf2e builds! I am so excited for you to get into the Advanced Players Guide. That book opens up entirely new realms of customization.
Same! It's not in the APG but I can't wait for a gunslinger build.
Something that I think could be worth noting is that the Gamemastery Guide actually cautions GMs against the multiclass resiliency feats (like ranger's resiliency) when using Free Archetype. It specifically advices that GMs only let players benefit from a number of these feats equal to half their level. This is to prevent players from double dipping by taking archetype feats with both their main class feats and their free archetype feats to gain large amounts of extra HP. (GMG pg. 194)
another great thing with hunt prey from ranger dedication is " You also ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks within your second range increment against the prey you’re hunting." This is amazing for thrown weapon builds, but still possibly relevant with other ranged weapons.
This sounds really good for my Barricade Buster Gunslinger build
Nice to see the series of pf2e builds continuing. A lot of other dnd channels currently are just doing their own intro to pf2e series so its nice to see someone doing a deep dive instead.
FYI, as a guy who has played a LOT of pathfinder, I see people take Trapspotter all the time. First of all, it lets you stealth and still spot traps, and secondly, according to some readings, it lets you get two secret rolls to spot traps if you are perceiving. One for seeking and one for your 'spidey sense for traps.' Very useful. Very underrated.
Amazing! Just building a thief for a game this week. Synchronicity!
I liked that you took a moment to talk about the possibility of the “flat” progression that might have happened with other choices.
That’s actually what I love about this system: the power difference between builds is noticeable, but if you have players that aren’t optimizers they aren’t falling drastically behind. I think PF2 threads that needle well.
I realized another thing that I love about PF2 while watching this video. I guess I always knew this at some subconscious level, but this video brought it to the front of my mind.
Even though you're building to optimize one thing, which is damage in his case, there's so much other things available that you can't not take some of the other things that are useful in other parts of the concept (iow not the core optimization goal), while still staying on theme and optimized.
I'm personally a big fan of ruffian rogue, get sentinel dedication for that heavy armor proficiency, pick up a longspear and go around cosplaying as a fighter while making use of all the fun feats rogue gets. It really makes you think of rogue in a different light compared to the usual sneaky assassin or burglar type character.
One of my most memorable characters was essentially a ruffian rogue in dnd 3.5 who ended up a slayer of domiel. Man that was a lot of fun.
@@toodleselnoodos6738 The best part is that heavy armor doesn't even have the Noisy trait, so as long as you have the Strength requirement it doesn't penalize your Stealth.
Thank you for doing both 5e and p2e. I think its awesome, and i hope its working for you.
Yay! I love that you're going into Pathfinder more. I'm going to be addicted to your Channel because I'm learning Pathfinder myself as a DM and I'm introducing about five new people to it. I may even go down to the local game store and host some westmarch style games
As someone in the exact same boat thank you for helping spread the PF2E love. I'm so excited to start!
Great video! You've effectively built what resembles Pathfinder 1e's Slayer (rogue/ranger hybrid class).
So here's the problem....every time I watch one of Colby's videos I want to play a character similar to what he built. I dont play in enough game for this to happen. After this video I'm super excited to play a sneaky backstabbing charismatic acrobatic rogue
I’m here for every single piece of Pathfinder content you’ve got!
I love the pathfinder content, I really like your dnd characters and now that I'm playing pathfinder, this helps me a lot to start building my own characters.
24:29 it would be good to see a graph for pathfinder where the x axis is the AC - level (to standardize) the y axis is the bonus to hit - level, and create a z axis for the number of party members with the same bonus to hit, making it easier to see when to use a third attack and when to demoralize for damage.
Colby, as someone who started playing D&D around the same time I started watching your channel, I really enjoy seeing your take on building PF2E characters. I learned so much from watching your vids in the early days and now I’m learning a lot on the structure of PF2E builds through these vids. Just wanted to say thanks and keep up the awesome work!
Super hype to see some pathfinder builds! Just picked up Pathfinder last week and your two part learning vids was a huge help!!
Noticed the Stormlight poster in the background! Love the series! If you ever wanna explore a Knight Radiant vibe, the Soul Forger archetype really fits, imo. When you feel comfy branching outta the CRB, I recommend checking it out!
Sanderson > everyone else.
Awesome to see another Pathfinder video from you, Colby!
I will say, I think one of the best strengths of Pathfinder 2E is just how broad the possibilities in character concepts are (especially with the free archetype rule), so I think this series will REALLY start to shine when you start diving into more specific and wild character ideas and toying with the various non-class archetypes. Of course, I totally understand that you're still getting to grips with the system, so it makes sense to start with simpler, more iconic concepts. Still, really looking forward to where this series goes!
Thank you for diving in to learn a new system and bringing us along. I've been on the fence about learning PF 2e (I have been playing and running PF since release and 3.5 d&d before that) and this content is just the push I'm needing. Thanks for being awesome! ❤️
Glad to have you take a stab at PF2e, while approaching it with clear mind and enthusiasm.
One suggestion I would make is to put up a description of the feats you are taking, so people can quickly read through them without going to AoN. Might help new players, who are not familiar what every feat does.
Love the pathfinder content! You fixed all my issues with the first video. I'm already excited for your next PF video!
My favorite Rogue Build is using Eldritch Trickster from the APG, selecting Druid as your archetype and WIS as your key attribute. Tumble Behind and Gouging Claw is your main damage source, and you use your skill feats on Medicine, becoming one of the best healers if you take Medic as a free archetype.
The spell Rogue which fascinates me is a Kobold Scoundrel, going Primary Cha, and using free archetypes for Sorcerer spellcasting. Cower from Kobold at level 5 let’s you Feint at 30 feet, so set them up for a ranged spell.
Very well-thought out - especially for only your second time! You're a true professional.
Cheers!
Fantastic video! I found you when everything was going down and saw your previous pathfinder video. I love your train of thought and explanations for everything. Hope more is coming for other classes as well.
Since i have a Pathfinder game coming up, I am loving these character building videos! It's the part I'm most nervous about but having someone walk me through the steps is super helpful
What an absolute delight. Seems like a really thorough guide on how to build a good Rogue.
I'm glad to see more pf2e content here! This build is looking great
I’m loving the Stormlight and Mass Effect artwork. Awesome stuff. Also these PF2 videos are getting me hyped for my table’s inevitable switch from 5e to PF2. Thank you for your hard work!!
Another great aspect of this very fun build is that the maxed Dexterity means if you end up facing a flying enemy or enemies high up and hard to get to, this Thief will be decent with hitting with a ranged weapon.
Very fun and flexible build!
Yes. More of this.
It's funny, I think I could find a problem with any potential damage calculation attempts since there are so many combinations of situations to account for, even if you aren't considering your allies, but it does show how varied combat can be in PF2E, and why it can be so hard to find the "best" build.
The biggest thing to be wary of with how you are calculating damage is how it might restrict your future builds, as some builds can be more focused on fighting few higher level enemies, while others can be focused on many lower level enemies, where as this calculation only really tells you how good you are against a moderate amount of similarly leveled enemies. I think it's fine to use that as a default for judging builds, especially since the spread does push a little into higher and lower level enemies, but be aware of how you may want to compare against these other type of enemy groups based on the kind of build you work on.
I love damage report breakdowns! It's my favorite part of each build video!
Love these Pathfinder builds!!! It's really helping me learn the basics of character creation and leveling up for Pathfinder 2e
More p2e! Let's go!
Great content, keep the PF stuft coming. Your approach is a welcome addition to the PF channels!
Thanks Colby, love the lighting in the new studio. Don’t know much about PF2 but appreciate your videos. Thanks!
The breakdown of damage and hit chance scaling in your Final Thoughts was inspiration to me, and something that, as a person also learning PF2E, didn't occur to me, that yes indeed there is an important spot for optimization, as least as far as the key ability score aspects. Staying effective is important for the fun to a lot of folks, and that's different from min-maxing into the ground. I'm loving your insight into PF2E content.
Thank you so much for your coverage of PF2 Colby! This is continually helping me learn the system for my table. Will have to catch the new campaign you're starting 🙂
30:00 There's a a tip I can give here to help with the action economy sometimes so that the problem with Hunt Prey intruding on your action economy and making Twin Takedown kinda take two actions on your first turn:
You can Hunt Prey on a target you are Tracking but the mark doesn't go away if you stop Tracking. This isn't applicable all the time but if you ever find Tracks (including any signs something passed through not just footprints) or track through some alternate means you can mark your quarry with Hunt Prey in advance. So if you happen to enter combat with them, they are pre-marked. Thus constantly looking for tracks is a good idea so if you find some you can mark the owner and proceed.
Enter a house that got broke into? Mark the person that rifled through yonder desk before you bop into the next room where you here voices. In the mess hall of a dungeon? Mark the dude that left that bowl of gruel.
Great tip! Thanks!
Glad to see someone on youtube doing pf2e builds
I built a Rogue Thief after watching this video, but I used the Swashbuckler dedication and moved into the Fighter dedication (I know you only used the core rules book). I found this build to be very versatile (obviously) with great sustained DPR! I believe the Ranger dedication still does more bursty DPR when considering a 75 percent trigger on Disrupt Prey. Great video as always!
Great build Colby, sounds like a lot of fun!
You are really taking to the Pathfinder 2E rule system quite quickly, well done!
Hi Colby! I really appreciate your Pathfinder 2e videos, and especially the thought process behind the choices you’ve made. Very helpful and insightful!
Awesome vid. Glad to see you testing the Pathfinder 2e waters more.
As I'm going to be playing a Ruffian rogue in a Strength of the Thousands adventure path, I thought I'd share the build I theory crafted but had to alter because the alignment restraints of the campaign setting. First max strength, then Charisma and go with Hobgoblin for their fear based ancestry feats. Max Intimidation to demoralize and Athletics if you can't frighten your target. The core of the build is centered around applying the frightened condition because enemies will be flat footed to you if you take the dread striker rogue feat. You apply frightened through intimidation and eventually grabbing dirge of doom (1 action cantrip that frightens all enemies within 30ft) at level 12 from the bard archetype. You maintain frightened through Hobgoblin's Remorseless Lash feat and eventually Aura of Despair (enemies within 15ft of you can't reduce their frightened condition below-1) from the Champion archetype .
Awesome build! Loving the Pathfinder content and hoping it continues to flow.
I love how you keep doing these, thanks for supporting the game and community Colby!
I'm glad you're dipping your toe into pathfinder. It gives me a chance to explore different corners of the rules when I'm not able to actively sit and go through my own books. Definitely shrinking the learning curve for us.
Love the APB in this one, makes the numbers feel much more useful! Excited to see this character in play!
So glad you're doing more pf2e content! Awesome build!
I love this series. It feels like I'm learning P2E with a friend
The video qualities are as usual glorious, but may I say that I find your voice absolutly mesmerizing ^^
It's always a pleasure to listen to you calmly explain your train of thoughts.
So exciting to see more pf2e optimization content!
Yes! love seeing the PF builds!
I enjoyed your D&D builds but it's super cool that you're doing Pathfinder as that is my current fantasy game! I'm stoked that more creators are getting into PF2e!
Thank you so much for these pathfinder 2e builds. Love you. Keep doing what you're doing
One thing to keep in mind is that a particular stat to damage means less and less as 2e characters level up. At level 1 it's huge, but at later levels, when you're rolling a minimum 4 damage dice per hit (extra if you have an elemental rune, even more when Sneak Attacking), the flat damage (maximum +6) means a lot less. Thinking about it like this helps open up more build options that could potentially be more interesting to play.
Finally some good pathfinder content, thank you!!!!
Happy to see more PF 2e content. I like that you started using the Automatic Progression for the calculations.
One production note with your new setup, your camera is having difficulty with autofocus in your new setup. Several times through this video is swaps between perfectly sharp focus on your face (for example at 11:50), then perfectly sharp focus on the dragon lamp & the posters on the wall (for example 25:00)
One of the best feelings in life is learning. Watching other people learn is comparable. Watching you explore pathfinder mechanically is a joy to watch.
Not sure if you caught that but I think it's worth mentioning that Skirmish Strike has the Flourish trait.
You can only take one Flourish action or ability per turn. So you can't use Skirmish Strike twice on the same turn and you can't use it on the same turn as Twin Takedown, which also has the Flourish trait.
I ended up getting to play a Level 20 Thief - such a blast. Love seeing your take on it
As a forever DM, I think I will enjoy this series as occasional builds I can recommend to players, if they want to go for something specific.
Another amazing video Colby! A goblin rogue with two dogslicers? You really are pampering us building propably the most iconic pathfinder character there is (thinking about Rise of the Runelords and We Be Goblins! adventures here). I wanted to show support to your decision to stick to core only for now. It's showing many of us a good example of not overwhelming themselves by taking in all the books once when trying new systems. And by 'us' I mostly mean myself.
It's awesome to see another Pathfinder build. I had been thinking that the first character I'd like to play as in Pathfinder would be a rogue of some sort so Im sure this will be super helpful!
I feel like PF2E really scratches your crunching need with the flavorful building that you also desire. Well done.
Thanks for the Pathfinder content!
I play both PF2E and D&D 5E, and have been looking forward to your PF2E content as you get up to speed on that system. 🙂
I've done a build pretty similar to this previously, and one thing I think is really good if you look at other books (or Archives of Nethys) only would be the level 1 Class Feat from the Advanced Player's Guide "Tumble Behind". When you sucessfully Tumble Through (i.e. use Acrobatics to move through an enemy's space) that enemy becomes flat-footed, and so you can sneak attack them! This works well because the main failing of the Thief is that it doesn't help you make your opponent flat-footed natively, and now we have a Dex-based way of doing this! It also synergises really well with the Unbreakable Goblin heritage, via the Bouncy Goblin feat (yes most of the goblin feats are this ridiculous), giving you a +2 circumstance bonus to Tumble Through.
Colby’s PF2 content is quickly becoming a must watch for me.
Love seeing more Pathfinder content!
Especially cool since my first character was a rogue! Although he was a scoundrel rogue. Had a lot of fun with him for that short intro campaign.
Goblin got mad ups! Love the pathfinder content. Thanks for doing this
Extremely good looking studio. Love the colors 👌
Love the Pathfinder content, and my first pf2e character is a Thief racket Kobold, so I really like where you're taking the concept! I'm gonna leave another massive comment cause I love the content and mostly want to share my experience as I'm learning going through pf2e just as little earlier than most of the now-arriving 5e community.
A few considerations: if you're going to take Mobility, I highly recommend getting your movement speed to a multiple of 10 as fast as possible; this gives you a higher speed at half movement, as at 25 you can only move 10, and at 30 you can move 15! While your initiative is important, anyone Scouting gives you a +1 circumstance to your initiative, if anyone is doing that in your party, not to mention that your stealth score is already going to be better then your perception. Sometimes they will take a feat giving a +2, nullifying your Incredible initiative feat! Combined with Very Sneaky, you once again get another 5 feet when you sneak! This leads to my next point as well.
Your level 7-9 choices are very valid, but are also quite niche; I think it's worth that mentioning in my play time with Age of Ashes as a level 1-4 Kobold Rogue where I had 12 con (accidentally, my Pathbuilder sheet had 14 but I mis-inputted it in Foundry as 12), I went down like every other fight (and going down in Pathfinder 2e is WAY worse and harder to recover from than 5e). While I often did some pretty explosive damage to start, I couldn't take many hits compared to the heavy armor fighter (obviously). I took Toughness as soon as I could and it has made all the difference.
General feats are a great place to shore up your combat effectiveness with the big three, one of which you know already: Incredible Initiative, Fleet, and Toughness. Each of these is incredibly useful for nearly all characters, and when you want to consider other general feats, it is very important to remember you're giving these up, and general feats are hard to come by unless you're a human. Later on, you can pick other options, but people often look at Die Hard and Numb to Death, but unless your in make or break fights constantly, not always necessary.
While expeditious search is good for the concept, combined with avoid notice, you strictly RAW aren't going to get any bonus to speed (comments please correct me if I'm willing, I love learning interactions like this) and maybe thorough search might be the better choice? Just a passing thought.
One important thing to remember is your weight limit! I made your character on Pathbuilder and considered you might be holding exactly one extra Bulk and you are at 4.7 out of 5. The change of weight and carrying capacity to Bulk (the general idea of how awkward something is to carry) makes it simpler to keep track, and nearly every online sheet does it automatically. This might not be a big deal, but it's something to consider when you skip strength in your build! You can probably get the Fighter or Champion to carry your stuff :p
Lastly, one interesting thing about the level you stopped at: level 8 is when you get access to the property runes on weapons that give you just extra damage! Flaming, Frost, Shocking, Thundering, and Corrosive (as well as Woundering at level 7 for easy persistent damage) all basically add damage that applies on every hit (especially flaming and shocking, as they don't require a saying throw for their extra effect on a crit). These additional d6s are extra damage that additionally let you customize how you are doing your damage!
Absolute love this series. More PF2E Please! Would love to see your take on a Champion build.
Always enjoy your content. including PF2E. Also like the new room. Thanks!
11:08 You're correct. However there's another class that comes close. The investigator can attack using intelligence and while it still adds strength to damage, when they use Int to hit they get bonus damage (Xd6 that scales with level).
Such a class is a great SAD build.
I think the way I feel about rogues is the way you feel about monks, so I'm very excited for this. I adore the PF2e rogue, and the thief is extremely beginner friendly with the extra damage bump.
So glad to see these awesome videos!
Loving to see more PF2e content!
The only thing I'd like to mention for you is some anecdotalknowledge that I find flanking is a bit harder to come by because of the rigidity of pf2e's flanking rules. Because of that, I find the Feint action (which makes the enemy flat-footed) to be a useful action more commonly than the Demoralize action for a rogue, especially since you can do it every turn
Also, one idea I had about the "character in a vacuum" problem that you might want to consider as you go deeper into this series. If you notice a trend of the average amount of DPR increasing by a +1 to hit and/or a -1 to AC/saves, or if someone already knows this fact, you can just take that extra DPR and add it x3 to account for a party of 4. That way actions that benefit teamwork may actually play into a build
This is a Dark YODA shouting 'Banzai' and erupting into combat --> very fun approach Colby!
Pathfinder is even more perfect for your channel than I expected, because you can theory craft not only the build, but when to take what actions (while in 5e is attack, move, attack, a spell if you are a spellcaster, attack, move...)
Great stuff. Thanks for the PF 2E content.
Great video I love the new office the pictures in the background look amazing
Rogue is honestly my favorite class in this system. Incredible Initiative is my go-to general feat. I know you're holding off on the Advanced Players Guide for now but I think you'll love the Shadow Mark stealth skill feat and Assassin archetype.
I’m loving the pathfinder content. Please keep it up. I hope that it gets enough views for it to be worthwhile for you and not hurt your channel in the Algorithm.
Another great video. You've nailed the formula for splitting Pathfinder/D&D. Please, keep doing what you're doing, Colby!
As a new pf2e player, can't thank you enough for this content!
Love more pathfinder content! I have a suggestion (which albeit is more work for you) about the damage report: what if you provide two numbers, one for if you spend all 3 actions doing attacks/damage actions, and another number of you only spend 2 (since often during play you need spend an action each turn doing other things like move or aid or demoralize). This way we get to see the max possible DPR, but also we see the DPR we’d typically get in play. Otherwise, the sustained damage dealers would feel more like nova damage as only occasionally we’d be able to setup 3 actions of attack.
Aah, I can feel the shift in priorities; calculating the "best-case scenario" is still the goal, but you're now equipping yourself with options and making sure you have something for every situation, for when the circumstances inevitably prevent you from taking the perfect turn. It mirrors my own PF2e journey. I had _such_ a beef with the system for the longest time, and Ronald summed it up beautifully in a recent video of his - I was mad that PF2e made it hard for me to "construct a wind-up toy". Optimization in other systems tends to be very sheet-oriented-something you build, and then unleash, almost on autopilot-whereas PF2e encourages you to assemble a good toolkit, and know when to pull out the best tool for a specific job.
A most eggcellent rogue-build Captain Colby!