Pathfinder's BUFFING casters? Playtest of the ANIMIST class! (Part 1: Overview)
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- ERRATA
-The Animist starts with TWO focus points. At 15:12 I say it has ONE point because I had an early-access version of the PDF that Paizo put out to content creators one day before. They (annoyingly to me!) put out a new version of the PDF 1 hour before the playtest went live, without saying what had changed!
0:00 Intro
1:04 Basic features, spellcasting
4:58 Apparitions
11:54 Animistic Practice
15:01 Advancement
15:44 Feats
20:54 Outro
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Игры
ERRATA:
-The Animist starts with TWO focus points. At 15:12 I say it has ONE point because I had an early-access version of the PDF that Paizo put out to content creators one day before. They (annoyingly to me!) put out a new version of the PDF 1 hour before the playtest went live, without saying what had changed!
I have to say, that the Sage is currently rather disappointing in comparision with the other subclass. One gives you a very high degree of versatility no matter what the adventure looks like, the other one only works against very specific effects and circumstances that might not be in an adventure at all...
I think it's ok for Focus spells to be better than common spells because that's one of the main reasons you pick between subclass options. I think they should buff all the weak ones currently in the game as well.
15:12 animist starts with 2 focus points, so they get third.
AHA! Paizo sneakily updated their PDF an hour before the playtest went live. (I had an early access version of the playtest from the day before that said their pool is only 1 Focus Point.)
Thanks for the clarification, and I'll add a pinned correction.
(Though this does annoy me - I make a few comments in the Playtest Feedback video which I've already recorded, based on the older number!)
I started this video thinking I wasn't going to be that interested in a new class, and got more and more invested the more you talked about it, starting with "based on animism" which was like a switch being flipped in my brain.
I cannot wait for exemplar. That class looks really fun. Though, i have a feeling they will need to make some slight adjustments.
I find the Witness of Ancient Battles vessel spell quite interesting: You start with a +1 status bonus to attack roll. At lvl 7, first heightening, you get the equivalent of an expert proficiency in martial weapons via a +2 status bonus. At lvl 11, you gain Weapon Expertise, which combined with this spell's +2 status bonus, gets you the equivalent of a master proficiency. And at lvl 13, the bonus rises to +3, when most martial classes only gain their Weapon Mastery at that lvl.
But most martials don''t need to cast a spell / sustain it every round. And they can still benefit from a bard, heroism or a marshal in the group, which you cannot. So it is better than most, if not all, other casters, but still a good way off from competing with a true martial. Which is a good thing since said martial can't cast the spells you have :)
I have this amazing spell to tell you about called heroism that lasts 10 minutes
@@feral_orc It scales much much slower, doesn't grant the martial weapon proficiency, give you aoo's or give crit spec. this spell allows a full caster to basically act as a full martial as long as you have sustaining dance and make use of your mobility. sure, you can't benefit from a lot of additional buffs on top- sure, of course, good, you are a full caster afterall... but that's a pretty dang strong focus point lmao
I mean to be fair with Darkened Forest Form you can change your shape every time you sustain it so there is some form of utility.
I believe the spell-extending spellshape can indeed be used with vessel spells; as a spellshape action, its effects only happen after you cast the spell, so your next action could indeed be to cast, say, Garden of Healing. Your apparition is then dedicated to maintaining the spell, but you can still sustain it - you just can't cast a second version until the first one is up.
I do hope that is the case... however my reading of it tells me they can't "use" the vessel spell. That certainly seems to be a more reasonable intention for the spell and I hope they clarify.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I remember when nonat1s read the class he mentioned that if for whatever reason your current primary apparition becomes unavailable you choose a secondary apparition to become your primary. If that is true my reading of this is you can Disperse your current Primary, Promote your secondary, and then cast your secondary (now primary) apparitions focus spell with the expanded area. this of course means you want to put the spell you want to cast on the apparition you are not using, which would make something like the channelers first level feat more useful because they can swap their apparitions around to lose the one they want.
I hope this is the standard on which they will remaster the Oracle. That Healing Focus is way Above the curve though
Excellent video. This is a very exciting class with some cool flavor and some interesting mechanics.
Thanks for the great breakdown.
Thanks for the overview it helps to have these insights. Many eyes accomplish many goods.
While I think Earth's Bile is a strong focus spell and it truly pulls above its weight in extended combat, in my recent playtest I did get to use it against a large group of weak enemies, and while the GM and my allies were balking at how strong it was, including when it was paired with sustaining dance to get 6 total actions (3 sustain, 3 step/leaps); I saw it as a bit of a failure.
The reason is that if I started with casting fireball instead of two times Earth's bile, I would've dealt more damage, hit more enemies, and potentially killed the 2 that crit failed their first save. This would very likely have ended combat 2 rounds before an enemy got to summon reinforcements and extending the combat for about 4 more rounds. Which is the hidden "Catch-22" in that Earth's Bile gets stronger as you sustain it through longer combats, but it also deals less damage which sustains combat into taking longer. More enemies alive for longer, means more attacks against your party, and enemies taking less damage from your AOE might need an additional hit from the martial to go down, applying this to multiple enemies means more harm is coming to the party.
That negative space aside, I think it's main purpose is to be a 1-action sustain that you cast on your 2nd round to try and eek out some extra damage on a different roll since one of the main problems with caster feel is the enemy rolled 1 nat20 against their 2-action spell and then the spellcaster contributes nothing, this is a feel good focus spell that improves a good turn by a bit, or makes a turn a not complete waste as even if the enemy crit succeeds twice, you haven't lost the resource on the sustain.
That's my opinion on why it's good, it's strong, but not overpowered by itself, when combined with unlimited use of sustaining dance and lack of the manipulate trait from what I could see, that can get above the power balance. I think Sustaining Dance having a frequency of 1/round is great and would make Animist archetype also a great dip for casters and the occasional martial that wants a sustaining spell, while keeping it in check with martial feats/abilities that cheat the action economy, flurry of blows having the flourish trait making it once per round, having more low level good sustain spells or focus spells that martials can pick up can have Sustaining Dance be tempting for both casters and martials.
That said, I hope Paizo, when they release these classes and their archetypes, just doesn't allow anyone to get the animist focus spells, or have that be at least a 10th level feat. Animist seems to be balanced by the low amount of spontaneous spells + good number of focus spells for combat, and then prepared spells for sometimes combat, sometimes out of combat. And these focus spells are mostly strong, and great for the Animist play, but I can see it easily being broken if other classes were allowed to take them, Discomfiting Whispers on Monk or Champion with a fortress shield comes to mind
Garden of Healing and Discomfiting Whispers are both double-edged swords. They seem to be making more of these high-risk, high reward abilities. Neither spell distinguishes between friend or foe. Take Whispers for example. An enemy walks up and shoves you (because your fortitude save is bad) and now oops, you gave disadvantage to one or more of your allies.
15:11 Don't they start with two Focus Points? Meaning they're getting a third one here.
Yes! I added a correction. (I worked off an older Early Access PDF that went out to content creators and was updated without comment by Paizo just before the playtest went live)
I am impressed by how cool these new classes are. I hope they will buff as well warpriest and oracle, it would be amazing!
I think this analysis kinda ignore the serious drawback of Discomfiting Whispers. Namely that its range of 5 feet means you need to get uncomfortably close to whatever you wish to debuff. Also that its going to be really hard to get more than a single target into range unless your attacking a shield wall or something. And that.. seems kinda suicidal?
But that creature will almost certainly not critically hit you due to its effect. I think it's quite strong
I don't think it's meant to be used to debuff enemies of your choosing. Rather, it's a defensive spell that punishes melee enemies who try to get all up in your personal space.
14:00 - Wow, total immunity to control effects starting at 10th level? You weren't kidding when you said casters were getting buffed :P
14:09 what, never been hit by a rank 40 possession spell?
I wonder if the massive power increase for these focus spells is indicative of the general power of focus spells coming in the remaster? This would be welcome, after all... some cleric focus spells are... 💩
Yeah, I really hope they cut down on the number of domains in the game, and give each one a pool of focus spells to pick from - possibly with some overlap between them for the core ones. It feels a bit like they only had 10 ideas for useful focus spells, but committed to making like 100 of them to make the gods feel better, so there's a bajillion choices that you'd be lucky to use once a campaign, let alone once per encounter, making only like 5% of the dieties not feel incredibly bad to pick.
the animist is very posinatial, because the focus spells work on all creatures in the emanation. ally and foes.
So animists, like FFXIV Melee DPS, make like adult film stars and learn positionals.
I'm in love with the Animist conceptually. Back in D&D 3.5 I really like the Binder class, and this feels like a reimagining.
Do the emanations heal enemies or injure allies?
Read through animist and made a playtest character for it and I have to say this is one of the rare cases where a Gish does not feel awkward. Witness of Ancient Battles may be a little awkward to work with at 1st level, but once you get Sustaining Dance (and perhaps the Fleet general feat) at 2nd level, you can actually be a pretty sufficient gish without the massive action cost.
Something else I noticed with that is the Forest's Heart stance. 30 foot range melee attacks with Reactive Strike is pretty massive.
Still can't attack and cast a proper spell in the same turn
@@feral_orc unless you cast haste on yourself, but considering you are a full martial *and* a full caster proficency wise with your focus spell up I feel like the trade off is kind of fair
How does it work with Flexible Spellcasting archetype? Isn't it just 2 prepated spells per level substuted by 2 flexible preparated spells per level? (Though, imho, it's not that big of a deal .)
3 hour video going over feats you say? I will see myself over to your patreon
I love the class concept. Sage just doesn't feel worth using compared to the Channeler. Like, the Channeler is so versatile that the Sage should be so much better at their current Apparition, can't swap mid-fight but stronger if you plan accordingly.
I'm just switching over to PF from 5e, but it seems like the Anamist could potentially be one of those "correct" classes to pick? I realize it's more complex, but complexity doesn't really justify something being more versatile or more powerful than others (otherwise you create a rift between players of "good players" picking the "correct" class and "bad players" picking an "incorrect" class).
Wizards still get more variety of spells to choose from, and sorcerers can cast more-but-limited-variety per day, correct? I haven't learned enough about the other casters yet to be fully confident on the concern above. As long as each class still has a distinct niche to fill that is valuable enough that no other class outshines them in it then it's fine, even if balance is off a bit.
I just see a new caster with an obscenely versatile kit and am immediately concerned about 5e casters creeping into PF; hopefully my concerns aren't warranted though!
Spirit Walk completely trivialises the Malevolence adventure... Or it would be, if it was a level 2 feat instead of 8 😂
I mean, pf2e has bigger power level overall I think, because classes are made to do stuff and not just sound cool, but the spell's power is pretty big
Power creep let's gooooo
Animist sounds like a Shaman class. I wonder why they did not go for that name
I believe that's already a 1e class or a popular homebrew class (not sure which), so i think they were trying something different here. Personally i really like the name, it feel very original
I am literally playing a Shaman in a pf1e campaign right now, and yes, the Animist is 100% the Shaman with a different name.
And apparently also a take on what the PF1 Medium was? And when I first heard about it I thought Spiritualist... PF1 classes after a certain point became a blur to me lol
Because they love confusing people who've been playing for years?
The PF1 shaman was a pet class made by mashing the witch and oracle together, with hexes and a single starting spirit that was basically a reskinned oracle mystery.
The animist is not a pet class, has a unique casting progression, doesn't use hexes, and is more similar to the PF1 medium than the PF1 shaman with a broad ability to "role shift" and change your play loops from day to day, or even within an encounter. Calling it shaman would imply that you can recreate your PF1 shaman with it when you can't, and would obscure the fact that it's occupying a very different mechanical niche. "Shaman" is also a term that tends to be over-generalized and misapplied by Western cultures in a way that obscures the realities and nature of the broader animistic faiths and practices that inspire the new class, whereas "animist" is more accurate and inclusive of the source inspirations. So primarily, we didn't call it a shaman because that's just not what it is.
It sounds very weird to me for a class called "animist" to use the divine spell tradition. Animism is perhaps the oldest form of religion yes but it is not linked to gods but to nature and animals. I'd have expected the primal tradition honestly.
Perhaps it’s deriving influence from animistic religions like Shintoism. Though the core principals of Shinto is the reverence of nature and one’s surroundings, the rituals and practices are still very tied to a divine aspect. Less shamanistic practices and more religious mantras.
Totally get it. My theory is that in Paizo's scheme of magic, Divine sits between Occult and Primal. Because the idea of SPIRITS of NATURE arguably falls hard into Occult and Primal respectively, they went for the tradition "in between."
Though to be honest I can see them making the class able to prepare in their choice of either Primal, Divine, or Occult myself. (Apparently these 2 classes figure prominently in the war of immortals involving a fight between the gods in this book)
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG If you look at the treatises we presented in Secrets of Magic, you can see that we said the animist is a divine caster a long time ago! Divine magic is the intersection between the Life and Spirit essences, and that's also exactly what the animist is: an intersection between life and spirit. The animist's magic is born from the intersection between their life energy and the spiritual energy of the apparitions they bond with.
Animism as a religious practice can actually extend far beyond the idea of just spirits of the natural world, as well, including belief in the spirits of manufactured things or locations that might be referred to as "civilized" in Western culture. Battlefields, beloved personal possessions, buildings, and other things not of nature as it's normally thought of but still part of the holistic world that we all occupy are equally capable of having or developing spirits over time in many animistic beliefs, and these types of manifestations are just as much a part of the thematic territory the animist is occupying as spirits of animals or natural locations/events.
So the animist is a manifestation of the divine, free of the influence of gods with their own agendas and desires. If they associate strongly with apparitions of natural places like the Steward of Stone and Fire or the Stalker in Darkened Boughs, they'll naturally end up with a significant amount of "primal" power that reflects the dominions of those spirits. If, instead, they associate with apparitions tied to battlefields or haunted houses (like Witnesses to Ancient Battles or Impostors in Hidden Places) they won't have any "primal" magic at all, because they don't and shouldn't have any such connection, mechanically or thematically.
I hope it's a typo because IDK what 'Discomfiting whispers' is ~ never heard that word before myself. Discomforting, yes, Discomfiting not so much xD
To discomfit is to make someone uneasy or embarrassed (in a mental sense). Discomfort is a state of unease or pain (in a physical sense). They're very close in meaning.
To be honest, i hate class features with smaller set in stone spell lists. Are the big ones not good enough already? (primal, occult etc.) or cant you do it in a way like the sorcerer where this feels more like bonus spells that come with a bloodline?.
Even if i like the theme/idea of the Animist i hate that half of your spells are forever set in stone (even if you can freely highten them) and the other half are prepared.
If there are some new cool fitting spells in an update in the future these spell lists while extremly importent to the Feature/class will almost garantied never get an update.
Also some things are just wierd to me. You have to spend 1 focus point and substain the option (for 1min) of actualy reliably be able to wield martial weapons? Dont get me wrong there is also very good stuff caked into this substained spell but this feels clunky as hell to me. This apparation feels more like a major choice that you should not be able to switch completly out of (at least a secondary).
It gives me release pf1 eldritch scion (Magus "subclass") flashbacks. AND I HATED IT TO NO END!!!! (in short, unnessesary purly mechanical flavor (complicated) made it weak and not fun at all)
Also also the sage/Spiritual/Nature/Hollow Necromancy like subclass is again very reluctant to give anything of actual real substance in actual necromancy. As is most necromancy in pathfinder 2e in my opinion.
It feels strange that animists use the divine list, rather than the occult list (or maybe primal). I think of divine spells as granted by patrons of the outer planes, which animists don't seem connected to.
Thus proving that the way you think of divine spells doesn't matter to paizo who wrote where they came from.
@@devcrom3 A bit aggro, no? Presumably Paizo wants to create a world that's internally consistent and that that consistency is apparent to the players. I hope that the final draft will make it more obvious why this class has access to the divine list rather than say, the occult.
Wow, they really wanted to make something just messy and complicated didn't they? LOL
Where the fuck is my Shifter class.
I assume it's coming with the rest starfinder 2e lol
0:35 Legit the wizard Curriculum is a new bells and whistles and a straight buff if the reddit would stop inverting its own anus over the possibility of theoretical anti-fun GMs that won't add thematically matching spells and way overblowing how much work that is for the GM to do.
Outside of PFS it's legit being limited by theme, not a school of magic. At the majority of tables an Evoker can shift to War Magic curriculum and have all their old school spells and also more.
It is still objectively a nerf, no matter what. You are getting less spell options overall and are reliant on Paizo to print more schools to fit your theme or desired spell slot, especially since they really could have just let Wizard have 4 free slots (though might nerf Flexible Spellcaster). Regardless of how much of a nerf it is, it is a nerf, especially since they could have simply renamed the old spell schools.
@@Treehouse22009
Did you read what the guy you're responding to wrote
@@vehemetipolygoniae2197does anyone on the Internet read anything ever?
@@vehemetipolygoniae2197 Yes.
Again, it is still a nerf, especially if the writers don't do a good job explaining the criteria for a spell to fit a school (see Recall Knowledge as to why I have trust issues for that). Sure, in the most practical of levels, the changes won't matter too much (not like I've seen people ever use Divination School for anything), but it is far from a straight buff.
Pretending it is anything but is disingenuous and I don't blame the community "inverting their own anuses" over it. It is at least understandable to a degree compared to the cantrip nerf...
@@Treehouse22009
You can pick literally any spell as long as the gm deems it as suitable. How is being able to pick from the 300+ arcane list, compared to a very limited number from the spell school before, a nerf
Also calling people that disagree with your opinion disingenuous is very funny