Let's do a combat + CRITIQUE of the ANIMIST for Pathfinder 2e! (Rules Lawyer)
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Rules Lawyer PF2E combat demo videos:
• Rules Lawyer Combat De...
This is Part 2 of 2 of my coverage of the Animist playtest! Here's Part 1: • Pathfinder's BUFFING c...
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My current list of FOUNDRY modules is in a pinned link in my Discord server, under #vtt-advice. Link to the channel: / discord
0:00 Before combat
4:28 Roll initiative!
4:42 Embodiment of Battle
7:23 Garden of Healing
8:24 Channeler's Stance, Earth's Bile
10:34 Discomfiting Whispers
13:23 Sustaining Dance
33:48 My playtest feedback!
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I always tell my casters to remember that they can counteract a Darkness spell with a Light cantrip if they roll well (see the Light trait) since it auto heightens. Would've been a strong option for any of the party to try. It's also super cinematic either way as you can either describe it as the ghostly allies burn bright, reaching through the zombie lord's darkness and restoring their sight, or with it failing and the party hearing ethereal whispers as their light is subsumed by the dark they sought to counter, their greatest efforts in vein.
Huh. In a game I had, a level 1 PC tried exactly that, to cast Light inside of a Darkness effect area. I needed to figure out how that works, so obviously the first thing I read is the Darkness spell again, which says "This also suppresses magical light of your darkness spell's level or lower." So I did what the spell said and had the Light cantrip have no effect (while still inside the Darkness).
So is this a specific rule for Darkness meant to override the general rule of the "Light" trait, or is it just an annoying contradiction?
This is incorrect, see 'light' rules:
"Light effects overcome non-magical darkness in the area, and can counteract magical darkness. You must usually target darkness magic with your light magic directly to counteract the darkness, but some light spells automatically attempt to counteract darkness."
Since the Light cantrip cannot directly target the spell and it doesn't say anything about countering Darkness, it doesn't do anything and will instead get countered by Darkness.
You can compare this to the spell Searing Light which actually has the below text it its spell description.
"If the light passes through an area of magical darkness or targets a creature affected by magical darkness, searing light attempts to counteract the darkness. If you need to determine whether the light passes through an area of darkness, draw a line between yourself and the spell's target."
It's another interesting little "Incapacitation"-like element in the game.
@@vipertooth3933I don't know if that's right - Searing Light is an example of a spell that doesn't need to target a Darkness spell, as the light trait specifically mentions is an exception some spells have. In fact, no light spell in print allows you to directly target a spell - such as seen in a spell like Dispel Magic. Searing Light also contains all the relevant rules on how to counteract the darkness spell, without needing to refer to the light trait - unlike Battle Form, Incapacitation or attack spells which aren't explained at all within the rules of the spell, which makes it odd that the Light trait would even mention counteract checks if all that information was already in the relevant spells.
So I'm pretty sure the implication is that you can just cast any Light spell in the game in a kinda alternate 'dispel magic' setting that lets you make a counteract check instead of the usual effect.
Although I suppose maybe they meant directly casting an AoE spell on top of a darkness effect's point of origin? Or just very elaborate flavour text? The rule definitely feels like it could do with some clarification.
I think it would be better if an Animist picked their apparitions as a part of their class progression, and would need to retrain like any other class if they wanted to switch. The primary decision each day with them would be "which of these apparitions do I want as my primary one". That way you assemble your secondary spell list as you level up instead of every morning, while still giving a lot of versatility. And maybe a high level Channeler feat could let you swap more regularly or something. IMO classes are better when they define who the character is, as opposed to just having a vague infinite collection of things that every one of that class basically always has access to. It makes characters more distinct, and in return the characters' power budget can be allocated into making them feel more impactful regardless of what they choose.
I think about The Alchemist and how they often all feel very similar, because they specialize in and build mostly the same list of the best alchemical items for each level, and it makes individual alchemists lack identity outside of their subclass. I would hate for apparitions to just be another flavor of that.
The Animist seems to be a mix of the Shaman and Medium classes from Pathfinder 1e in both flavour and mechanics. Both had a similar mechanic where they could select any spirit available to them on a daily basis, but how important that choice was differed between the classes. For the medium, it was a very important choice, defining their role for the day (though at higher levels they were capable of changing once during the day). For the Shaman, they had both their main spirit (decided at character creation) and a wandering spirit (chosen daily), so there was a mix of both, and the main spirit was more important and what you'd build around.
I feel like the Animist could still work if it was more like the shaman (one permanent choice, with the other(s) flexible, but the primary would need to be more impactful somehow for that choice to really be build-defining), but I doubt they'd remove the ability to change spirits daily, because that was a core feature of the two 1e classes Animist is a successor to.
regarding the versatile spontaneous spell-casting, one change I could see is making only the spells of your current primary apparition your signature spells.
If those vessel spells are the apparitions casting them, I think that's why they don't have manipulate or concentrate. It's not "you" casting it.
I see the logic, but I still don't think it's intended. The follow-up Sustain action still requires Concentrate. I have to think that initiating the spell calls on at least as much willpower from the animist as maintaining it.
True, true.
One of the thing I like with your combat presentations is your honesty about your mistakes. It also clearly show how much things we can forgot during an encounter. It helped me with the struggling I had to be "perfect" all the time as a GM.
Also, very instructive video! I love the flavor of this class and I can't wait to try one in the future :D
I'm so glad my games aren't recorded and don't have an audience that would notice the dozens of mistakes we probably miss each session.
I feel like the Sage should get Sustaining Dance as part of there subclass. This would make it feel more like they have a stronger connection to the one primary they have active as the vessel spell is the primary thing you get from a primary spirit. There should also be more class feats that can do other things while also sustaining. The name should also be changed to something like "Synchronized Connection".
perhaps a good way to deal with the vessel spells would be to just give them their duration, but add that you must spend an action to get the effects on any one turn? allowing you to not feel bad not using it on a turn, but also making it so you don’t get it without that cost
IIRC the playtest magus' Spellstrike was actually 3 actions. people were not a fan so it became 2 actions with a require recharge action that we have now.
I love the idea of the mixed prepared + spontaneous lists. Divine casters usually always get access to spells outside their list. I'm pretty sure the Divine list is balanced around having some missing options and the smallest spell list because of this. Clerics only get three extra spells from their god. Oracles can pick from multiple god's lists of granted spells, but have to spend a feat tax. I really like that the Animist gets a real hefty addition of spells as a part of their class, and they're a more limited set of slots than their others.
I do agree animist characters would be bit over the top in terms of versatility, and that some of it's vessel spell are outright OP. Hopefully Paizo takes your feedback seriously.
Here's my playtest combat with 4 animists, plus my critique of the playtest class! I like it but also think it can be tuned down and simplified (including that some of the vessel spells should be tuned down but not have to be Sustained)
More detailed comments in the video of course!
ERRATA:
-Channeler's Stance's bonus to healing, as written, only applies when you Cast (not Sustain) the spell. This is distinct from the effect on spells with energy damage. Mind you, it affects ALL vitality/void healing spells, while the boost to damage is only on spells that deal energy damage. Easy to miss!
-32:46 Forge's Ignition spell should be rolled twice and take the lower result, due to Imposter's Discomfiting Whispers aura.
For EXEMPLAR I plan to do a LIVESTREAM where we playtest! Subscribe and ring the bell for the notification!
My current list of FOUNDRY modules is in a pinned link in my Discord server, under #vtt-advice. Link to the channel: discord.com/channels/870925179570753616/943926525688954930
One thing to note, while it wouldn't come into affect here, I don't believe Channeler's stance should affect Garden of Healing as currently written. Because it's specifically "when you cast a spell that has the vitality trait", i.e. not when you sustain it.
Also, I believe Impostor and Forge should've been affected by discomforting whispers as well near the end there meaning they'd need to roll twice.
Thanks! Will add to my errata. (Though it is yet another distinction in an easy-to-misread feat!)
48:09
Really good idea, that modify-sustain is underused and this would work greatly for flavour of the animist
I kind of feel like they should have waited until they released the Remaster Core books in November before doing the playtest, since we're comparing the Animist, for example, to a Cleric or Druid, when we don't know how the Remaster will increase the focus spells power and access for casters. So, we can say, "This is stronger than any other caster," but we don't actually know that to be true or not until we see the Remaster.
Totally agree, especially considering that the closest class to the animist is probably the witch, and it'll be seeing a significant overhaul in the remaster.
Love these videos. As for Animist, seems the Devs took the opposite tact than usual and overtuned the playtest class and will likely tone it down. Class is crazy!
Not disagreeing with your analysis (particularly things like sage feeling rather bland and vessel spell sustain being clunky), but do wanna remind people that a single combat demo is not really enough to argue about class balance. Which is why there is a month-long playtest and not just "here, Mr the Rules Lawyer, please do a single video to test our new class"
Thank you for the video and your contribution to the community!
I appreciate the quick corrections on screen (and the longer correction about the focus points, Paizo really tricked you on that one lol). Mistakes are inevitable and really not a big deal either in these videos or in actual play, but it's good to point them out.
Thanks for doing this. I won't be able to playtest myself but watching this helps me figure out feedback. Here's my thoughts from watching:
1) I agree on the strong/versatile/complex concerns. I was surprised that Animists could change apparitions everyday. Mechanically it's very strong but it also feels odd thematically. In my mind attuning a spirit is a significant process that would take time. I *love* the versatility but normally the tradeoff for versatility is having to stick with options. Druid, Thaumaturge and Kineticist are prime examples of this.
2) Roleplay wise the interesting thing about an Animist is their relationship with their spirit/apparition(s). Being able to change them each day minimises this and makes them feel generic and replaceable. The wandering feats also reduce this as any power boosts seem to come from you rather than your relationship with said spirit. Compare this to Kineticist where your new impulses and Gate Threshold feature tells a story of how you've developed your power as you level.
3) I don't get what the subclasses are supposed to be, there's no identity there. It feels like they're going for the Channeller as the flexible "jack of all spirits, master of none" Animist while the Sage is the deep specialist. But the daily attunement goes directly against this.
4) I love the idea of the vessel spells but agree with your points about action economy and strength. Maybe replace sustained with a 1min duration during which you can use the action but don't need to need to? But weaken the effects to offset that. I'd also like to see higher lvl vessel spells that represent you bonding with that particular vessel. Druid, Cleric and Sorcerer all get higher lvl focus spells to represent the source of their power improving, and would be easier to nerf the 1st lvl spells if they got better ones at higher lvls.
5) I like the *idea* of spontaneous and prepared spells but agree it's complex in practise. And you've a lot of apparition spells for the number of spontaneous spell slots you have. Much as I want the idea to work maybe making them all spontaneous and having a small divine repertoire would be easier. I'm less concerned about the huge apparition spell repertoire because you're limited to set lists rather than choosing freely. I imagine a lot of your apparition spells will be circumstantial or duds.
6) What do you think of Garden of Healing giving temporary HP that last till the Animists next turn? That fixes the out of combat healing issue.
Yeah, a lot of common ground here.
As of Garden of Healing, temporary HP would address the concern, though it would remove its ability to bring someone up from the ground. They definitely should consider it tho in their design process
Thanks for the vids on the animist! It might be good to mention it's part 2 of the Animist vids in the title.
Oooooo very excited for this class, and the revised edition in general!
41:57 I love this class. But i do think there's a lack of cohesive identity also.
In this video it was fine, but i don't think you can have 2 animists in the same party in the same way you can have 2 fighters (or other class)
Sage is too situational to choose (you can pick up the sense later still). So most animists will be channelers.
And starting at lvl 4, you have half the apparitions at once each day, and you can switch the primary with an action.
You can change which 3 each day. Add to that sustaining dance being a must pick, and the wandering feats at 6th, 12th and 16th..
The two animists can essentially switch their builds around each day as they like, so there's little difference to them over the course of an adventure.
Remember that Garden of Healing heals ALL living creatures in range. Not just allies. In this fight, against undead creatures, it was usable but against living enemies, it would be almost useless you're healing all allies but only one enemy.
Healing spirit was not actually disliked for it's use in battle, but out of battle, as dnd5e does not have a lot of good out of combat healing
I pretty well agree with everything you said/found here. Animist feels like an "overwhelming" class, not necessarily in terms of pure power, but just with how much is going on all at once and how many proverbial balls they need to keep in the air.
By contrast, Exemplar feels pretty underwhelming, I'm looking forward to your analysis.
Great video! Looking forward to hear your thoughts about the examplar (:
I love the animist from a concept, but I think it needs a bit of simplification mixed with some raining in. I was showing it excitedly to a couple of other players and its really intimidating. Exemplar just screams crazy to me, but I dont have a lot of experience with PF2e so I will wait and see what others have to say on it. Good video though really appreciated it! :D
Thanks for the video. I will be testing the Animist myself on the weekend. Looking forward to that. So far I mostly agree with your assessment of the class. Though to be fair, you showed the three very good vessel spells and one of the mediocre ones. Gladius was basically a worse fighter in this combat.
Also, I noticed three small mistakes in the video:
21:16 - The Channeler's Stance doesn't increase the healing on a sustain, only on cast. For damage it lists Sustain as well. That might be an oversight, but as written, the stance currently doesn't work too well with Garden of Healing.
45:55 - Quick Jump is useless for Sustaining Dance since it doesn't modify Leap, just High Jump and Long Jump. Powerful Leap, though, seems very good. My playtest Animist will be an elf, so I can leap a total of 20 feet with that feat :)
48:00 - By spending an action (which is not a Sustain a Spell, so it wouldn't work with stuff like sustaining dance) you increase the AREA, not the duration of the spell
One thing to remember with the focus spells in combat such as the healing one and discomfiting whispers, they affect ALL creatures in the area, not just enemies. If you are near enemies with the healing one you’ll heal them as well (didn’t come up in this fight because you can’t heal undead with positive energy) and with discomfiting whispers you will cause adjacent allies to roll twice and take the lower.
Overall positioning is going to be key for the animist and as such I’m fine with the focus spells being a bit more powerful. Discomfiting whispers in particular I think is fine with the need to position. The healing one may need to be tuned not due to its in combat healing but it’s out of combat healing.
I do wonder why you’d play a cleric now over animist. Clerics will get a small number of auto heightened harm/heal spells which can be incredibly useful, and different class feats but I’m not sure it’ll be enough, that being said we haven’t seen the remastered cleric to compare but it’ll be hard to compete with prepared, AND customizable spontaneous casting
I do think its strong when compared to other spellcasters, specially regarding focus spells, but i instead think other spellscasters should be more like the animist in the remaster.
Having really good focus spells that they use every battle makes it so that they have a well defined theme that shows up every battle.
Like, imagine if a caster could choose a normal spell to be their focus spell.
Like, imagine thinking "That guy is THE fireball guy, he throws one EVERY battle." Or "this is THE illusion guy, in EVERY situation he tries to solve the problem with illusions" as the caster is always trying to use his focus spell because it essentially costs nothing.
I've said this in other places but I'm REALLY hoping that Animist is a sign of good things happening to casters in the Remaster and not something taht's going to get nerfed into the ground at release. I adore the complexity and versatility of the clas even if it does feel like it outshines most any other caster right now.
It outshines every other class, it’ll obviously get nerfed.
I like the concept quite a bit, but it seems a bit fiddly for what it does. Thanks for the playtest.
11:48 Amusingly, this is exactly why I spent the time building a custom effect for Embodiment of Battle :D I'm planning on using an NPC Animist in a game I'm running and needed it for just this purpose as his priamry Apparition is msot commonly going to be the Witness to Ancient Battles. It works really well and even auto-scales, I'm quite chuffed with it :D
25:24 the imposter ability seems really strong. That's a level 1 vessel spell?
yes
I really love the way you show, analyze and break down the class through active playtest and review. It really helps me to get a feel for how the class plays and allows me to see the benefits and flaws of the class. I agree that the Animist seems both too strong and too limiting with the same feature. Much like the magus, having action economy really squeezed to play optimally can make the class feel less fun, because your turns get so samey.
What I really notice here is the blueprint from the 1e Shaman, which I decided to never play because there was just too much to choose from and track. Shaman had access to 17 different spirits (via Wandering Spirit) to grant you spells. And you chose a new one each day. Animist feels like that. Very versatile but also very overwhelming. To get the most out of Animist you should be familiar with every single thing each apparition can offer, so you can choose properly which apparition to choose for the day. That is a lot of material to juggle.
I like the idea that zanzaklaus stated about making apparitions a class feature gaining only one additional apparition via leveling and thus reigning in the vast amount of choices to grant a more specific feel to each character.
I plan on playing an Animist starting this weekend so these are just preliminary thoughts, but I think one thing they could do to limit the complexity and massive spell list is put limits on switching Apparitions. Maybe it's more like tbe Kinetisit gates where you choose them once and then those are the ones you're attuned to without re-training (maybe channeler can swap one out each morning?). This would also make those class features where you get more Apparitions to attune to feel more impactful.
changing aparitions should be a "i dedicate an entire day to search aparitions" thing in my opinion.
Would you do higher level encounter? I really like high level encountera. And what about maybe a spot or a video to talk about implementation of this class in foundry? If any automation is needed and something is missing or if there is anything you had to do in advance in order to make it work?
I hope you can access the vessel spells via multiclassing, though I won't be surprised if you can't. Just seeing Earth's Bile + Sustaining Dance was enough to convince me.
is there a list of modules you use? I love the look on your foundry.
As someone who has yet to play PF2E (hopefully soon!), I'm amazed at how awesome in runs in Foundry! I know you have a series about setting it up, I was wondering if that series is still accurate/up to date? The automation is flawless and the UI is so good; makes me want to set up my beginner's box/AV Foundry module just to have it ready like this in case my time to fill in for my forever DM is anytime soon
Alas the modules is one is a bit outdated. The tutorial/walkthrough is still pretty helpful though I think. My pinned comment and the video description here link to my Discord post where I keep my current list of Foundry modules.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Awesome, thanks so much! I just want to say I appreciate you and all the help you provide to the Pathfinder community. I can safely say I would not have appreciated the system or gave it a shot without your videos. You are great at teaching!
Nice!
This sure is a complex class but i STRONGLY like 2 things:
1) the ability to swap out so many things each day for Free let's you experiment with thing that otherwise you would never choose if locked behind a retrain wall.
Sure this will leaf to more time required for choices at the start of the day, but Will save time on level up.
2) if this class is an indicator of the power level that spell caster will have in 2.5 i am pleased. I just watched the whole "casters weak" playlist and as a lerson that is new to 2e but has played 1e and 5 out of 6 editions of d&d i feel that they definitly need a bump in power at least at low levels.
Agreeable critiques, the only thing don't see is the idea that Embodiment of Battle could step on the Fighter's toes at all, even if Vessel spells as a whole were easier to maintain. Even classes that have normal martial progression would struggle to do that, and EoB doesn't bring the Animist up to that par. And that's before the Fighter's defenses and feats that help it further fill its role. If anything I think Paizo is a little too afraid of casters doing some martial things - on a basic level - sometimes - at a cost - and so we end up with very unappealing options like the Sorcerer's and the Witch's. EoB is a small step in the right direction, verging on Warpriest territory but softening the blow of dedicating a whole character to the concept as it's a temporary buff/debuff. But I couldn't say whether that will make the idea more or less niche.
All hail the Sustainimist.
After doing the Exemplar Combat + Critique, mind doing the Soldier next and showcasing it at 5th level? I think it'd be fun to see!
It might be interesting if you can only cast spells from your current primary apparition maybe? So you can have this massive custom list of signature spells in your repertoire, but you need to spend an action to access the majority of them. This would hurt the Sage subclass, but IMO that subclass already really sucks and needs something more interesting anyway.
Mechanically and role-wise, your two primary apparitions should be picked at first level, that would help define your role on a group and how you intend to play. However the Animist is based on a bunch of real world cultures and the idea of changing the apparation while you refocus is actually on point with that. To me the best solution would be to emulate the Wandering Spirit/Hex feature of the Shaman from PF1e. You have your theme, you have your apparitions, the spirits that care and guide you, but you also can connect when need be to this local spirits. On another note, there is no real beneffit picking Sage until 8th level, their primary ability of possession is reakky awesome thematically but really low on gameplay interativity.
It wasn't relevant at this level, but YET ANOTHER thing adding to complexity fornthe animist is their feats with the Wandering trait. On top of 6+ apparitions and all the spells you have to choose, you may be retraining multiple feats during your daily preparation as well...
My overall take is that both "god-like" classes are really, really god-like and thats kinda concerning for the other classes, they can easily overshadow everyone else niche and thats a no go for me. Not sure if this comes to pair with buffs in the remastered versions of the other classes but as it is right now, i think they should tone it down a little
Turns out incorporeal spell can be cast by touching pets.
Garden of Healing does state that it heals all living creatures in the area, so it might not always be the right choice depending on the situation the party is in.
I'm honestly surprised that Discomforting Whispers doesn't have the Mental trait. This seems like an obvious trait to give it. I wonder if this was an oversight or if they had a balancing reason for this.
For the healing spell, I think the 1 minute duration giving 1HP per spell rank is great, or you can sustain it once per round to choose one creature in the range and that creature gains 1d4 per spell rank instead. That way, the keeping people conscious aspect is still there, and the out of combat healing is still good but not “the whole party gets 50 hp back” good.
Do you have a video or post on your foundry setup? It looks like you have a lot of good plugins I'd be interested in using
Mayhaps vessel spells should function a little closer to Bard's composition cantrips, lasting usually only 1 round but with a feat available that can make it last longer ala Lingering Composition. I also do think that the Animist is missing any kind of distinction between unique Animist characters. Channeler vs Sage seems almost negligible in flavor difference and functions slightly different from one another. That is also compounded by the fact that your apparitions are in no way unique to you, and every Animist has access to every apparition. I would much prefer having to choose a collection of apparitions that I must choose from than having access to all of them. Maybe instead of having additional apparitions all at once, you can have a pool of apparition options that you add to as you level up. With that, you would only have 2 (maybe 3 later on if its necessary for balance) active apparitions with 1 primary and 1 secondary as usual, but refocusing will allow you to change the primary and secondary apparitions out with your entire pool of apparitions.
Bit late but would a follow up/commentary to playtest wrap up and how design team commented on the feedback regarding animist/exemplar be possible?
woah, what is that initiative tracker module?
Is Gladius going first from opening the door a cinematic house rule thing or is the initiator of combat always first?
As I read the playtest rules, I'm a bit confused about whether the Vessel Spell is usable by Channeler Animists or not. As I initially read it, I thought any Animist could use it, but then on a closer read, I got the impression that it is only available to Sage Animists.
So, as much as I like some of the healing options in these 2 classes (I made a vampire exemplar just for sustain and man thats fun) I worry that there is no reason to take cleric over animist.
It does seem a bit overturned
Well, the remaster coming out will probably make Cleric better, and I do think the font spells are still a huge benefit.
Kind of too early to say. We have no idea how the Cleric focus spells have been changed.
Completely unrelated to anything in the video but do you have any advice on familiars? I play a Witch at level 5 and have kinda neglected using my familiar so far (Baba Yaga patron, he's a little flying loom) and really want to make good use of him so that 1. I'm making use of the bonuses from being a Witch and 2. He can be more relevant in roleplay because people actually remember he exists.
Everyone knows the most powerful creature in this encounter is Megan.
Jokes aside, this class confused the hell out of me so I love seeing it properly played so I can wrap my baby brain around it.
Complexity is a good thing for certain players.. the more compicated, the more we love it.. i realy realy like the diversity of the channeler, but i think changing main apperation could be atleast 2 or maybe even 3 actions?
This class feels like if the Cleric could pick 2-4 gods every morning and gain all their spells and domain spells. I think the choice of apparition(s) should *be* the subclass and not be able to swap them out.
At 24:50 that positioning was wrong to hit the owlbear - it is more than 10 feet like that!
However a good video as usual - Thanks for the good job! :)
10 ft. reach is an exception to the regular distance counting, it counts as 10 ft even diagonally twice.
CRB p. 455 " Unlike with measuring most distances, 10-foot reach can reach 2 squares diagonally. Reach greater than 10 feet is measured normally; 20-foot reach can reach 3 squares diagonally, 30-foot reach can reach 4, and so on."
@@ErikLevin cool - I didn't know that! thanks for the heads up, it was definitely a miss for me! ;)
oo what's the Foundry module for the initiative cards at the top of the screen called?
Does reactive strike trigger when something starts movement out of your reach and enters your reach? I've seen multiple people say that only movement and manipulations that start within your reach trigger it (whether or not they're still within reach at the end being irrelevant).
Track the movement on a tile to tile basis. For example the zombie shambler began its stride action well outside his reach, however once it moved from 10 ft. away to 5 ft. it moved out of a tile within his reach because the PC had a glaive, which gives 10 ft. of reach.
This is one of the main perks of using reach weapons, it enables you to Reactive Strike against enemies approaching you.
Here, the glaive is a reach weapon. The creatures are leaving the square 10' away and thus triggering the Reactive Strike
Aha that makes sense, thanks!
I wanted to ask if the initiative tracker at the top was added in the post or a Foundry add-on. If its an add-on then I'd love to know the name.
It's a mod called Carousel Combat Tracker!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG
Thank you very much!
Rest of my thoughts after watching.
I think this class should have all of its spellcasting based on the apparitions and have zero prepared spell slots. Have the Animist be more of a spiritual (no pun intended) opposite of the summoner (apparitions are almost 1 for 1 opposites with ediolons).
Channeler is a very versitle spontaneous spellcaster. It steps on the toes of both sorcerers and psychics. While the sage I think could be a very strong martial class with the battle and stealth apparitions.
Sage has better action economy than the Channeler due to not having the ability to basically be sustaining two spells every round.
I also think the sustaining leap is dumb. Its flavorful, but its full of alll the wrong flavor I see in this class. Why are they jumping? Why is it not just like a half stride or something?
Positive comment
I feel as though Animists should be locked into their vessels via selecting one, and perhaps gaining the ability to channel another at later levels. Sage could get fewer selections and only be able to select which one to channel after a full rest, and the other subclass could gain maybe one more vessel and the ability to switch their channeling with 10 minutes of focus that then causes them to be unable to switch for the rest of that hour.
Either that or literally remove Sage and Channeler and just make the apparitions the "sub classes", with each animist being allowed to select one at level 1, and a second at a later level.
As-is Animists all seem very same-y and far too versatile; it's almost as if the class's specific identity is "be good at whatever you need to be in the given situation", which risks alienating other players...
Whats that module that shows critical hits so wholesomely?
Do you mean the animations? That is Automated Animations + JB2A Animated Assets + PF2E Animations
Just from watching this demo round, it kinda feels that this class is getting too much gadgets and options. Powercreep is a pretty common trend with any game that has been designed a certain way and then gets "expanded" upon. I am sure Paizo will come up with some solutions to this - but then again, I am not entirely sure that the games "as is" as missing anything that this class is now filling (without devalueing existing choices). But I may not be deep enough into the mechanics.
The program looks cool ! what is it ? Do you need subcription to get the cool effets of frightened ?
This is foundry. It's a one-time license purchase, but the effects are included, and you don't have to pay extra for Paizo book content.
Most mods and add-ons for it are free.
The automation of effects I think comes from Automated Animations. TokenMagic gives effects to tokens. But in this case I think the animation comes from JB2A Animated Assets. (I'm guessing here)
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG thks, i gonna check it !
This isn't exactly pertaining to the playtest itself, but I’m of the opinion that LV -4 enemies, albeit by rule considered to still be a threat worth 10XP, should not be considered as such when designing encounters and should only be used as fodder to increase the size of the enemy army. The only instance I'd count them as actual XP is if you have a large number of them alongside a strong enemy (although in a scenario like that I'd much rather make a troop with higher level that would be an actual threat than use a bunch of enemies that die in 1 hit), but definitely not 10XP per enemy tough.
Published APs love to make encounters with stuff like 6 LV-4 enemies and a LV+1 and call it severe, that is not severe, usually the LV-4 all die in the first two rounds tops (if not in the first one), never even land 1 blow, then it’s a low encounter for the rest of the battle.
Ps: what mod do you use to have all the PCs and NPCs in cards at the top of the screen ?
Don't Oracles get 2 Focus Spells as well?
As much as I see it being a bit strong, honestly the complexity is what gets me the most at the moment. This is a lot constantly going on, which might have people stay away from it.
I must be missing something - why is the darkness difficult terrain?
It's a rule for not being able to see where you're going. Under the Blinded condition: 2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=1
33 minutes, Forge's spell not affected by the unluck aura of her ally?
Good catch! Adding to the pinned errata
Your discord link is not working for me. IDK if thats on my end or yours. Do you have another link I could use?
I just tested it and it works for me in an incognito window...
Ooh what is that initiative tracker with the cards at the top?
It's a mod called Carousel Combat Tracker!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG thank ya! great demo as always
Garden of Healing is just straight up overtuned. Out of combat it's monstrous and totally invalidates the medicine skill, in combat it becomes more valuable than a 3 action heal of its rank after just two turns. I took a lot of shots at trying to balance it and ultimately the only way to do it is have it give a very small amount of healing and have it hand out temp HP each round. Though even then, it needs to be giving out like half of the health it does or it's just utterly busted.
btw, what module are you using for that cool af turn order visual on the top? I want.
legit the fact that you can just use this have everyone stand around you for a minute and heal bassically back to full, refocus and then go into the next battle is insane.
@@dwainedwards615 Garden of Healing Animist: "Attrition? What's that?"
1:07 I think out of combat healing is entirely irrelevant. Every party will have at least one person training in medicine, and the game expects you to be full health for every encounter. I don't even know why we roll medicine checks out of combat.... Just reset back to full.
Sure, but if this is the designers intent, they should errata the system to be like that. Like introduce a 10 minute activity that resets health to full and rework existing heal options to match.
It just looks weird when they introduce new features that are an order of magnitudes better at doing a thing than all existing comparable features.
Sure. I don't think an errata is necessary though. Is your table really rolling heals out of combat? IMO it's a complete time sink.
why is an animist wearing full plate when they aren't trained in heavy armor? Did he take an armor feat for that?
Yes, with his Level 3 general feat
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG ah, thanks
I keep thinking of the zombie owl-bear as an undead Frenchman named Albert.
It sounds like a band name
Garden of healing is a little bit TOO good from my testing
Megan 😻
I believe you made a mistake with Heal and Harm spells: you must decide to Heal a creature or damage an undead qhen you cast the spell (or viceversa for Harm spells). 🙂
The three-action version hits all living and undead in the radius, changing the target conditions.
That was true in PF1e, not in 2e!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG 🤯
My opinion on the animist is that ppl should not be able to pick so many apparitions, maybe you should pick two when you create the character and that’s that, being able to constantly change them and also going up to as much as 4 is way too overpowered. I also don't think channelers should exist (or at least should be drastically changed), all animists should be sages, channelers are too powerful in their current incarnation.
I think those two abilities are absolutely broken - aura of healing and roll twice and take worse result. Those feels like lv 18-20 abilites.
However too many spellslots - they should have the same number of spells of a Magus or psychic, and definitely the "warrior" focus spell is broken and needs to be toned down.
I think vessel spells feel so weird because, sustained spells are mostly for really powerful ongoing effects like summons. These spells immediately do a big thing on the field, and so they cost 2 actions to align with other spells. Then they take 1 action to maintain that strong effect. An amount of your initial action economy is just going to the fact that, you can choose when and how to start this for whatever situation you desire. Meanwhile it takes less actions to sustain it because, even though you're getting the same effect, you are now locked into it instead of being able to freely decide when and how. But the vessel spells are the same action economy to start as they are to maintain, which creates this weird situation where they feel super strong to start, and kinda weak or frustrating to retain.
A lot of sustained spells are also either supportive in nature (spellcasting as a whole is more supportive in this edition), or they add another dynamic into how you interact with the field (summon spells). This means you don't need to be the one to capitalize on your spent actions: your allies do. Even if your turn is highly limited, your teammates will more than benefit from your support. Or you won't even really be sacrificing actions, just your spellcaster's actions, because you are doing something more active with your sustain.
I think vessel spells could use a mechanic that rewards players for keeping them up. Maybe their effects start out really small but get stronger the longer you sustain them? Or maybe reduce their initial effects, but make them do something more active whenever you sustain them on top of that.
Seems like this class is, somehow, "Suffering from success". Instead of being like most classes that were released with "Chore" abilities to perform average stuff, this one really taxes your economy in order to perform a really powerful thing over and over. If there's one thing that would incentivize a "combat routine" it would be these kinds of strong spells.
There are a lot of really powerful things in this class, but, as always, action economy seems to be a major hurdle. The only difference is that a janky action economy feels much less worse when you're using broken and powerful stuff.
personally i dont think we need anymore classes atm, i agree with Knights of Last Call that we should get Mythics instead for the war of the immortals.
We are, they buried the lead but we're getting Mythic rules
“Too” strong = just right in my book
Zombie Owlbear is a Large bipedal creature, which means it has 10 ft reach innately. Twice you moved the Zombie Owlbear to strike Gladius, which provoked a reactive strike, which you shouldn't have done.
That isn't how PF2e works. There is no automatic reach. If the stat block doesn't list reach, the creature doesn't have it. The rule you mention is PF1e and D&D, but not PF2e.
I really hope they pull this back. Its too powerful. Adding new classes is fine, but you don't want to do things better than other classes. You don't want the new class to be the better cleric, or better sorcerer, you just want it to be unique not over powered.
The animist is want I wanted out of a caster. Prepared casters as they are feel less functional than spontaneous casters. I want to like prepared casting, but in practice it tends to place more limits on what you can cast in a day than spontaneous casting. It's hard to describe my thoughts on the matter, as its more of a feeling.
Animist fills a similar role to the flexible caster archetype, but it provides more than it takes away. I wanted to like flexible casting, but the progression doesn't feel good at all. I like hybrid casters like 1e's Arcanist, but I feel Paizo's execution is lacking in 2e. This class feels like a breath of fresh air, and I hope to get the opportunity to try it soon.