This is a really well done doc that contains blood boiling information that more people need to understand. It is a good doc but I think it is too complicated for most people to understand. If it was broken down in a way that explains it in details that the general public can understand (like the Big Short), it would gain a lot more traction IMO!
Very clean and well put together Documentary. This will remain a huge black eye on the poker community. I really feel for players like Brad Booth who were huge NLHE crushers in the online scene back when and to just have their mental broken like that vs cheaters is a crime. I myself was cheated in the mid and high stakes limit games on UB where I played 30/60 LHE short handed on UB but I was never compensated either. I honestly couldn't explain at the time why I was winning on Paradise Poker, Party Poker and Stars but I couldn't book more than a daily winning session on UB. Thankfully I didn't put more than a few thousand hands of volume on UB back when I was cheated but it still cost me several thousands of dollars I will never see back.
Scott, if you see this all these years later... thanks again for the shoutout in the "Gut Check" section of the credits. No way did I deserve that, but I certainly do appreciate it!
Well produced documentary. I played on all the sites back in the day and like a book I watched Ultimate Bet go from best site to something the is not right site. Repetitive hands, impossible calls, cash out curses. Things that just didn’t happen on other sites. A few years later it was full tilt’s turn. Terrible repetition, impossible calls, definitely not random. Before Black Friday it was only pokerstars that could be trusted.
Same, I just didn't like the skin lol. And AP was always timing out my hands if I played tables over each other. while I didn't have those issues with PS PP and FT. AP had by far the most fish. I just didn't like UB skin, so ugly. Also not being able to review HHs easily and Hud/PT issues It affected my play too much. I started in 2006/2007 played donkaments for like 95%. Obviously not affected by any cheating but fully agree that any cheating allegations were seen as conspiracy theories. We thought 100% Indians were beaming lasers off mirrors and fluctuations would add entropy in the RNG. If I knew UB was using a mysql backend where some engineer could just alter shit without any auditing, I'd already been shitting myself.
This should be prime time on TV, not only on RUclips... I was one who lost on UB. Later I was on Party Poker, and after SO many shady hands on Party Poker, I closed my account there. And then gave up playing online (save for VERY small / micro tourneys for bored entertainment). I bought a casino table for the basement, and play with friends and family now only. As usual, its the few that spoil it for the many. Someone should be in jail over this.
I too lost on UB back in the day.. the worst thing that happened was they gave me $1000 refund... so then I trusted online even more... now I’m having same feelings of collusion and cheating on poker bro’s and ACR before that.. there must be super users of some sort but w technology now it’s way easier to make it look legit.
@@fastfunpokerjamie124 - I still think people are up to no good. And if you put a gun to my head, I'd say the same. Though I'm going by watching friends play, as I don't play much of my own online anymore. I think now that we have the bit-rate (note I didn't say bandwidth - that's a misnomer), we should require all players to have webcams enabled & uploaded to the cloud. Existing casino face recog tech should soon identify collusion, ghosting / bot accounts, and so on. I once heard a rumour that in China, they have unused business buildings resembling classrooms, they all join big tourneys, whilst using laptops, and as they are seated together, they crowd around a common table to share hole cards. VLANS / VPNs abound...
@@fastfunpokerjamie124 poker bros is the biggest cheating site ever! Every hand is insane. You'll hit a set, and somebody will stay in when you are all in on the flop. Runner runner 4 card straight or 4 card flush. I never deposited money on poker Bros. All my money was from freerolls on there. It's super sketchy all through rebuys. The bigger stack always wins.
Great DOC! Unreal to think about everything and how sophisticated all the scams were to their extent. I wonder how in-depth cheating can be on these poker apps now days
Very nice content! I’m a 23 year data protection specialist and the “loss was due to a RAID drive failure” is utter BS. Makes no sense at all...then again, we already know this
Exactly, the very function of RAID is to protect against volume loss, due to hard disk failure. I can't imagine a site like UB ran anything less than RAID6.
100% True! I met Jeff Madsen on a final table once, he was a "stars pro". I had a very tight image, and he called like crazy from flop and miracle hitted a runner runner straight out of position and risked the tourny as well. We two also was the major chip leaders at the table of 7 left, it made no sense. I stopped to play that day and never played online again. Some years ago now. But Stars is rigged 100%, and it was not the first time either on pokerstars this had happened. Have screens of the final table on some old hardisk somewere, but I forgot screen the hand history cause I was shocked about the play and closed the app. I had over 10 yrs of daily experience online and live, so ye I know when I see..Hard to thrust online poker again ever..I always do really good in live poker, so going to stick with that :)
@ItsFayne maybe. I think I had AK and hitted A on a A 10 5 flop rainbow. I betted almost potbet on the flop. He had like 7 high or something. He calls, then he calls again on the turn with still 7 high and only a inside draw 7-9% on a potbet. Wtf. Even including the implied odds it was not even close to worth it. He had a big lead too as 1st place and if lost he was last place. In my 3k online tourny exp on a expensive tourny I FINALLY going to win 20k. This happened and I won 3k and it was vs one from the starsteam on stars. Well, I know it wasnt real. All on the table wrote in chat like wtf. I will never forget that..and I had tight image with only good hands on that table and he was also out of pos and takes on the big stack and risked it all like that xD
You cannot tell me for a second that pokerstars doesn’t generate bad beats over and over . I don’t know if you’re talking about real money but I’m talking about the free games just for fun but it’s not really fun after you realize the algorithm they’re using is constantly rewarding the long shot hands and making sure someone with pocket pair gets cracked constantly . Basically generating action and rewarding bad calls and chasers or calling stations lol. I don’t trust computers at all , I don’t even like the shufflers at poker tables would rather have dealers shuffle and rely on the eye in the skies to catch mechanics . The only reason I do play at tables with electronic shufflers is the fact that the house is getting the rake regardless and we’re not playing against the house.
Hellmuth is worth 400 million and gambles with other peoples money who stake him and splits the profits and he still whines like a baby when he loses a hand. And he was mixed up with this? He is a tool and a douche
@@bruceree6593 You dont pay for a addblocker.. :) Depending on which browser you got, you just google addblocker+browser and it should be absolutly free :) well you properly pay with some info about you.
Great video I played all these sites back then and had no idea how bad it was. Took $50 and made 7k that I lost in hours. I was devastated couldn’t imagine how you guys felt taking these loses. I’m sorry that a person could do this too another.
@@SalDOWN they all are, but the poker community has given him a pass in a way they gave not given Anie Duke and Russ Hamilton. Also, Jesus Ferguson and Annie's brother Howard Ledder are considered pariahs in the poker community for their role in the Full Tilt scandal. Maybe it is simply because Russ stated that they hid the God mode from Phil, so the poker community doesn't see him as culpable.
@@peterlohnes1 Even if he did not play on the site using god mode, he took money as a sponsored player and promoted others using the site long after it was known there was an issue.
52:24 stop and look at that list... wow. Brad Booth, Gloria Matusow (Mikes mom), Scott Matusow, Mohamed Kowssarie (cheated Patrik Antonius and Johnny Lodden by hacking their computer), Brian Townsend, Taylor Caby, Tom Dwan, Eric Lindgren, Cole South.... what a list!!!!!!
Benny Binion knows quite a bit about stealing. He got in to the casino industry by walking in to a numbers house, pulling out a gun, and saying this is mine now.
I got into online poker in late 2004. I’ll never forget when PH actually had the losing hand and the pot got dragged to him. I stopped on UB shortly after lol.
I actually managed to withdraw from UB before shit hit the fan. Then I got scammed by party poker. First they refused to let me cash out when laws changed but they would accept deposits that I could gamble with and then later simply zeroed my balance without giving me shit. It's sad that basically only pokerstars was legit in the whole industry. When that's the place where I had the weirdest losses in my million plus hands played XD
@@themaharishi8160 Mate, I thought that PS was realy legit, but...My personal feeling is that, comparing with pros playing the PS, lower quality players are always fucked up. Always! Random generator is bad for us. It is incredible when you loose nuts hands 11 times in a row, isn"t it!?
@@milanbisercic9338 I personally feel the same way..it plays much different then all other sites...I can't explain what's going on...but I definitely feel the same way
@@Coryalan2 Not yet. Mate, it is impossible that so much hands played can be explained in normal way. My personal experience is awfull, trust me. Most of the players try to convince me that this situation is normal, compared with the number of hands. For me it is not. I strongly believe that pro players on PS are somehow prority, compared to us, small ball players. I was watching the games between the pros, nothing simmilar ever happened! As soon as I sit down, RNG goes wild. Cannot explain why, but my nuts preflop, on the flop and turn, always, I repeat, ALWAYS goes in flames on the river. Nobody can make me believe that RNG isn"t rigged. That is why I stopped online games, and somehow, managed to cut my loses more than 95% playing only live games. In less than 5 months I made more than 47k euro win. No online sites will ever see me again. PS: I am sure that in a short time this story with RNG will be uncovered.
Yeah I’m just realizing this as well. Lost a ton of money on Global poker man. Never in my life have I been on such a losing streak . Almost 90% all to bad beats with opponents hitting 1-2 outers.. I’m gonna give up online poker as well. Have this crap a try during this pandemic and wish I never would have!! Everyone reading my comments that are in Global poker do yourselves a favor and delete your account and play live poker. Real cards do not lie and your odds are way better playing live. Stop making these con artist business men running these poker sites rich in your bankrolls!!
@@Coryalan2 well considering computers can't generate random numbers especially with 52 "cards" making all those combinations impossible for a computer to generate on its own without human programming id say you probably don't have a clue.. the hands are created for action. The site will determine who wins and who loses. Why doesn't the sites show their source code for the rng? If its legit why doesn't anyone show their RNG? Because they're not all the same smart guy
There’s zero even in this that shows Phil knee deep in it. He’s basically guilty of taking his paycheck after they started refunding players. Well, and still defending his friends for a while.
Maybe not 100% but Hellmuth knew what was going on and kept taking his paycheck, sponsor monies and getting re-imbursed for his tournament fees and travel perks. Again if Hellmuth was so righteous he shouldve given his salaries to the players that were cheated.
There has been cheating in poker from the start. Online poker just made it easier and you won’t get back roomed or killed. Full Tilt Poker was the worst and Howard, Ferguson and Russ didn’t do anything they liked using other players money as there personal bank roll. Full Tilt pros also liked the money. Ultimate Bet was the same and Phil Hellmuth was just the main promoter and because he never played with the cheating software he got a pass and the poker community gave Phil a second chance. Full Tilt made me stop playing poker and my interest in it. Poker is great game but it’s also sleazy but if you made millions in the poker boom and you didn’t go broke because your extremely good your set for life.
Watching this for the second time, five years after my first watch. Man, the guy who made this did a fantastic job. Great interviews, masterful coverage of the material. If I have a single criticism, it's about the storytelling aspect of the film. I watched it, having followed the story as it played out on 2+2, so I knew what had happened, how it had happened and why. If I was coming to this story fresh, knowing nothing about it, I'm not sure if I'd be able to follow it. There's possibly too much information. If you know the basic outline of the story though, it's great. You can just wallow in geekish pleasure at the sheer quantity of the detail,
As someone with zero knowledge of this before watching, I honestly appreciate the amount of detail and that nothing was left out. But then again, I always prefer this as it really illuminates how understandably human the process of conspiracies like this are, like it isn’t some maniacal, meticulously crafted scheme, it’s just a bunch of skeezy, worthless people getting together and deciding to make a quick buck, and because like attracts like, one person with no dignity is gonna be tight with others with no dignity.
The more people dig into the poker world the more you will realize the "great" players have all been in some sort of scandal to profit big on cheating ppl.
I always did well on Absolute Poker, but Party Poker was so shady. The calls people made against me was sometimes ridiculous. I’ll never forget the screen name ZeeJustin who called a massive bluff against me with 11 people left in a big Sunday tourney. Yes, I had rags...but this player had 32 and only a pair of 2’s which he caught on the river. ~ I quit playing online poker after that call.
That well known player was also accused of multi-accounting, so who knows if he had 3 or 4 other accounts sitting at that table with Pale Zombie, and who knows if the cards in the hands of those other accounts gave that well known player enough information in the hand (i.e. blockers) to turn a fold into a call with 32... I'm just sayin''... and yeah, that well known player has certainly gone on to prove himself in the one field we think we can safely assume is essentially free from any cheating scandals... the live poker arena. That well known player has excelled beyond the dreams of most poker players, phenomenal success... that helps to reduce suspicion, certainly, but it was a well-known fact that MA was illegal even back then... some of the young kids just didn't care. If a human believes they can get away with cheating and not get caught, well guess what? Most of those humans are gonna go ahead and cheat. It's out human nature to be unethical and immoral, that's my conclusion drawn from my decades of life experience... being a perfectly ethical and moral human being is certainly the road much less traveled. We're all flawed in our own unique way. :-)
@@asb3pe So what is the name of that player??? I find it hard to believe he would call a x3.5 raise pre flop, then call 40k and 60k on the turn and river with 3 high...then catches a 2 and flat calls 95% of his stack on a 8810K2 board. No draws, just calling all his chips to catch a 3 or 2 on the bubble of a final table 200+15 buy-in. I had AQ off. I bet 60k and he had roughly 62k left. That was shady, to say the least. Now you tell me he had multiple accounts, which is also cheating or immoral at the very least.
the multi-accounting accusations against Justin from years ago is not a secret, it is easy to find with a web search, I simply did not want to name him directly but even using his screen name in a search will bring you to his story. He was far from alone in trying to gain advantage via MA, many players were secretly doing the same thing, and I bet most of them never got caught, Justin just happened to be one that was... I play poker, but I also read my Bible... and I subscribe to the wisdom and guidance of 1 Timothy 6-10, I don't play poker to get rich, I play poker for the love of the game. That makes me a weirdo in our "love of money" world, trust me. LOL The path less traveled is a lonely one.
Who says crime don't pay , snatch a purse from an old lady you get 6 months , steel a billion from mug punters and you get a trophy wife , a private jet , and life style of a movie star.
@CarlitoJr888 what's your experience with BCP so far? On a new account with 0 money, out of 15 freerolls I could hardly get into the paid top 200 four times, but on another account in which I uploaded 25 dollars I could win so many pre-flop all-ins even when I was up against AA pairs and got to the 7th position easily.
@CarlitoJr888 Yeah it's good to have notes and report suupicious accounts. Me and my cousins have been looking for an independent & Regulated site, but it feels like all of them belong to a network of unregulated ones. BCP for example is part of the Winning Poker Networks group. On other sites like Unibet for example my cousins notice they only let him win up to 40 euros, after that you lose with any hand you play, then from 30 again you can win until 40...
43:57 Where I'm at right now after an impossible run of "bad luck" on America's Cardroom. Hundreds of tourneys across months, suffering 2&3 outers, running everything to lose massive pots/tourney life. I have lost all self confidence after playing for 30+ years and having had dealt poker in a huge casino for 7 years and always profitted. Now I can't dodge a 2 outer to save my life. I'm not sure if I'll ever play real poker again because of America's Cardroom's bots, super users and setups. Never in my life have I ever questioned my abilities, and I do now at 44 yo. I'm beside myself in shock.
Playing online vs playing live is so so different , playing live you very seldom get called when your opponent hasn't hit after the flop playing online you'll get called for all your chips and get done by runner runner , this doesn't happen anywhere near as often live , why ?
Can we have these guys check into clubwpt? It's beyond ridiculous the ways bad beats repeatedly happen on there. And I'm talking about 2% runner runner type beats literally every 5 hands.
Yo! I’ve been dealing with the same thing on ClubWPT. Haven’t talked about it much but there’s some bs going on! 9/10 times you will lose if you are the small stack going all in against a big stack. I’ve noticed this more frequently towards the end of a tournament. Like less than 50 people left. I’ve lost every single push all in with about 85-95% favorite to win. My opponent will catch the one card they need on the river to win. I totally get not making it sometimes but every time? Nah something feels very off with this site. Both times today I lost to a flush on the river with a random card. Outplayed and out flopped the other player. Last night I played and got down to one solid big blind amount left. Pushed all in with QQ and got called by the person left of me. They won with pocket AA. Understandable right? They also won with pocket AA the hand previously!! AA twice in a row!? Possible but suspect. But every time I got AA and I’m short stacked in a tournament, push all in, and get called with JJ and lose to the chip leader. I can’t even begin to to recall all the times I’m 95% favorite to win and my opponent makes the exact card they needed on the river. Plays out so frequently. Is it the players? No I don’t think so. But something isn’t right here. I’m guessing they want to eliminate as many players as quick as they can, who are short stacked, and getting close to the final table. I believe this is why so many chip leaders push all in so much because they know the site favors big stacks. Idk I’m frustrated. And many people are saying the same thing as us!
Howard lederer and annie duke should be in prison for what they did to the poker world and lose everything they own and add russ hamilton in there as well mike matasow told a story about how he was cheated so bad in online poker it made his live cash game suffer because he had so many bad beats online it changed the way he played live and won alot less money than before he played scared then he found out hamilton could see his hole cards on his screen i wish legit online poker would come back but those day are over it ruined slot of people on black friday!!
feel like im playing the wrong game when it is so populated with cheaters scammers and just plain filth and here I am trying to go for it legitimately no wonder its called a pipe dream
We (ok, I) naively assume that a big online betting site, or poker site, is 'legit', - I mean, how could it be run by fraudsters? That is, until you work with people in business, and realise how people are utterly venal and rapacious for the dollar. Pathetic creatures.
Yup I realized this at a young age..and I thought it was all about hardwork and integrity when I got my first office job...boy was I wrong. I was disgusted and not only left the office world but left North America as it reeked of BS everywhere.
Because that is what Mr. Helmuth does. That is part of where he is making money and so is a bit of a whale. IE investors most of all most likely do not want to ban their whales especially if the whale generates a lot of media attetion (Free Advertising). You talk of circuits. But are those circuits owned by an individual or open circuits with out owners which can be used by any one. Now adays he owns his own poker room. So not so easy to ban a man from his own house. Who is to ban him if many or most of the big sites are playing the same game. I mean operating the same cheats, scams, thefts or tactics?
the first time I saw Phil Hell's face. at television and knew that he had won 10 Bracelet his face had intrigue me a lot I knew he had something with cheating and I was 18 years at the time I do not trust the camera on poker table either.
I wonder, do people like this set out to prey on people, or do they start out honest but find themselves in a position to "capitalize" on others, that's too hard for them to resist? Probably some of both. I think some people think morals and ethics are for suckers, or it's a ploy to get people to put their guard down. Others maybe give in and decide that it(cheating) is the only way to succeed. Life lesson best learned early: The world is riddled with crooks, can't trust anyone so be mindful of what you expose.
I gave up live poker because there were people there that looked like they really needed their money, and I didn't want to take it, even though I knew someone else would. Whatever it was that caused me to not want to be a part of their losing their money, I think that's what these people lack. You could say they're ruthless, they're jaded, or they're sociopaths. I don't know. But they're not the sort of people you want to hang out with.
As a regular punter I looked at this online poker and to be honest the very first thoughts I had was "No accountability", common sense told me to stay the fuck away.
I'm surprised that Annie Duke's brother Howard Lederer was never mentioned in the documentary. I'm not suggesting guilt but he and Chris Furguson both disappeared after the scandal. Innocent people don't hide in my world.
GGPoker might be a better site because there they show each player's statistics, total winnings, maybe even when the account was created... but I uninstalled it because it didn't have freerolls and my cousin said he doesn't know/trust it as it might be part of that big mafia ring of sites which all look the same just have a different color and are owned by the same parent company.
This doc was shockingly impressive and without commercials
Most likely the Channel was to small to be monetized Back in the day
Man, this should have wayyyy more views. Great work!
"After leaving ultimate bet Jason DeHaan became chief information officer of Chicago"
Yeah, that sounds about right.
This is a really well done doc that contains blood boiling information that more people need to understand. It is a good doc but I think it is too complicated for most people to understand. If it was broken down in a way that explains it in details that the general public can understand (like the Big Short), it would gain a lot more traction IMO!
So much work put into this - excellent job
This aged well, looks one of the Ultimate Bets scammers was connected to FTX scandal.
this will always be a problem in online poker. no matter how safe it is, somebody can see your cards.
The people involved in this fraud should spend serious time in prison. This has been a great injustice.
Very clean and well put together Documentary. This will remain a huge black eye on the poker community. I really feel for players like Brad Booth who were huge NLHE crushers in the online scene back when and to just have their mental broken like that vs cheaters is a crime. I myself was cheated in the mid and high stakes limit games on UB where I played 30/60 LHE short handed on UB but I was never compensated either. I honestly couldn't explain at the time why I was winning on Paradise Poker, Party Poker and Stars but I couldn't book more than a daily winning session on UB. Thankfully I didn't put more than a few thousand hands of volume on UB back when I was cheated but it still cost me several thousands of dollars I will never see back.
ACR is also cheating ppl
Wow this video really reveals in great detail the extent of the whole scandal. I'll be watching this more than once.
Ok so who else’s recommended this just randomly come in?
Didn’t even know what the video was about before I clicked here before the 1 million mark.
Btw I watched the whole thing. It’s a crazy little situation.
its now 4-21-2022..... where does this stand today?.. ive seen matusow n hellmuth buddy buddy on tv
Wow, the greed. Selling your soul. Fantastic documentary, well done!
Scott, if you see this all these years later... thanks again for the shoutout in the "Gut Check" section of the credits. No way did I deserve that, but I certainly do appreciate it!
Daniel friedberg just got wrapped up in ftx scam a tiger never changes its stripes
Well produced documentary. I played on all the sites back in the day and like a book I watched Ultimate Bet go from best site to something the is not right site. Repetitive hands, impossible calls, cash out curses. Things that just didn’t happen on other sites. A few years later it was full tilt’s turn. Terrible repetition, impossible calls, definitely not random. Before Black Friday it was only pokerstars that could be trusted.
Same, I just didn't like the skin lol. And AP was always timing out my hands if I played tables over each other. while I didn't have those issues with PS PP and FT. AP had by far the most fish. I just didn't like UB skin, so ugly. Also not being able to review HHs easily and Hud/PT issues It affected my play too much. I started in 2006/2007 played donkaments for like 95%. Obviously not affected by any cheating but fully agree that any cheating allegations were seen as conspiracy theories. We thought 100% Indians were beaming lasers off mirrors and fluctuations would add entropy in the RNG.
If I knew UB was using a mysql backend where some engineer could just alter shit without any auditing, I'd already been shitting myself.
This should be prime time on TV, not only on RUclips...
I was one who lost on UB. Later I was on Party Poker, and after SO many shady hands on Party Poker, I closed my account there.
And then gave up playing online (save for VERY small / micro tourneys for bored entertainment). I bought a casino table for the basement, and play with friends and family now only.
As usual, its the few that spoil it for the many.
Someone should be in jail over this.
I too lost on UB back in the day.. the worst thing that happened was they gave me $1000 refund... so then I trusted online even more... now I’m having same feelings of collusion and cheating on poker bro’s and ACR before that.. there must be super users of some sort but w technology now it’s way easier to make it look legit.
@@fastfunpokerjamie124 - I still think people are up to no good. And if you put a gun to my head, I'd say the same. Though I'm going by watching friends play, as I don't play much of my own online anymore.
I think now that we have the bit-rate (note I didn't say bandwidth - that's a misnomer), we should require all players to have webcams enabled & uploaded to the cloud. Existing casino face recog tech should soon identify collusion, ghosting / bot accounts, and so on.
I once heard a rumour that in China, they have unused business buildings resembling classrooms, they all join big tourneys, whilst using laptops, and as they are seated together, they crowd around a common table to share hole cards.
VLANS / VPNs abound...
I agree, it should be on American Greed.
@@Bealotcoolerifudid LOVE that show.
@@fastfunpokerjamie124 poker bros is the biggest cheating site ever! Every hand is insane. You'll hit a set, and somebody will stay in when you are all in on the flop. Runner runner 4 card straight or 4 card flush. I never deposited money on poker Bros. All my money was from freerolls on there. It's super sketchy all through rebuys. The bigger stack always wins.
Great DOC! Unreal to think about everything and how sophisticated all the scams were to their extent. I wonder how in-depth cheating can be on these poker apps now days
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING POKER SINCE 2000S. PLAYED ON ALL THESE SITES. AND i never saw this. THEYVE HUSHED THIS UP
Very nice content! I’m a 23 year data protection specialist and the “loss was due to a RAID drive failure” is utter BS. Makes no sense at all...then again, we already know this
Exactly, the very function of RAID is to protect against volume loss, due to hard disk failure.
I can't imagine a site like UB ran anything less than RAID6.
Just waiting to see one of these documentaries on Pokerstars lol
100% True! I met Jeff Madsen on a final table once, he was a "stars pro". I had a very tight image, and he called like crazy from flop and miracle hitted a runner runner straight out of position and risked the tourny as well. We two also was the major chip leaders at the table of 7 left, it made no sense. I stopped to play that day and never played online again. Some years ago now. But Stars is rigged 100%, and it was not the first time either on pokerstars this had happened. Have screens of the final table on some old hardisk somewere, but I forgot screen the hand history cause I was shocked about the play and closed the app. I had over 10 yrs of daily experience online and live, so ye I know when I see..Hard to thrust online poker again ever..I always do really good in live poker, so going to stick with that :)
@ItsFayne maybe. I think I had AK and hitted A on a A 10 5 flop rainbow. I betted almost potbet on the flop. He had like 7 high or something. He calls, then he calls again on the turn with still 7 high and only a inside draw 7-9% on a potbet. Wtf. Even including the implied odds it was not even close to worth it. He had a big lead too as 1st place and if lost he was last place. In my 3k online tourny exp on a expensive tourny I FINALLY going to win 20k. This happened and I won 3k and it was vs one from the starsteam on stars. Well, I know it wasnt real. All on the table wrote in chat like wtf. I will never forget that..and I had tight image with only good hands on that table and he was also out of pos and takes on the big stack and risked it all like that xD
You cannot tell me for a second that pokerstars doesn’t generate bad beats over and over . I don’t know if you’re talking about real money but I’m talking about the free games just for fun but it’s not really fun after you realize the algorithm they’re using is constantly rewarding the long shot hands and making sure someone with pocket pair gets cracked constantly . Basically generating action and rewarding bad calls and chasers or calling stations lol. I don’t trust computers at all , I don’t even like the shufflers at poker tables would rather have dealers shuffle and rely on the eye in the skies to catch mechanics . The only reason I do play at tables with electronic shufflers is the fact that the house is getting the rake regardless and we’re not playing against the house.
Hellmuth is worth 400 million and gambles with other peoples money who stake him and splits the profits and he still whines like a baby when he loses a hand. And he was mixed up with this? He is a tool and a douche
THIS IS SO GOOD
Hi Ryan my love
I messaged Greg Pierson on LinkedIn asking if he had any stealth observers left and he blocked me.
wp! Hellmuth's best friend lol.
Very pleasurable doco to watch, just a lovely piece of work!!
Very nicely done. Deserves more views.
I appreciate no commercials
Get ad blocker
@@WanderingBrushArt it's funny how comments can get a reply from here and forever lol. Yes I need it but don't want to pay for it 😜
@@bruceree6593 You dont pay for a addblocker.. :)
Depending on which browser you got, you just google addblocker+browser and it should be absolutly free :) well you properly pay with some info about you.
@@bruceree6593 It is free bro
No ad blocker on android
Great video I played all these sites back then and had no idea how bad it was. Took $50 and made 7k that I lost in hours. I was devastated couldn’t imagine how you guys felt taking these loses. I’m sorry that a person could do this too another.
not even 150k views in 5 years,this video deserve more!!!
If you published this @Doublehead Pictures I salute you.
There needs to be a collection playlist for documentaries made by creators like you.
Still can't believe how Phil escaped any hit to his reputation in the poker world.
He is fn rich...
@@SalDOWN they all are, but the poker community has given him a pass in a way they gave not given Anie Duke and Russ Hamilton. Also, Jesus Ferguson and Annie's brother Howard Ledder are considered pariahs in the poker community for their role in the Full Tilt scandal.
Maybe it is simply because Russ stated that they hid the God mode from Phil, so the poker community doesn't see him as culpable.
@@MrZola1234 Yes, Hellmuth should have been banned from poker for his life! He is a thief just like Annie Puke and Coward Folderer.
Just an association doesn't make you guilty of anything...a spokesperson barely has anything to do with the internals of a company.
@@peterlohnes1 Even if he did not play on the site using god mode, he took money as a sponsored player and promoted others using the site long after it was known there was an issue.
52:24 stop and look at that list... wow. Brad Booth, Gloria Matusow (Mikes mom), Scott Matusow, Mohamed Kowssarie (cheated Patrik Antonius and Johnny Lodden by hacking their computer), Brian Townsend, Taylor Caby, Tom Dwan, Eric Lindgren, Cole South.... what a list!!!!!!
And “Philip Ivey” haha
Great work, any chance we could get some of those list pics posted somewhere like 2+2 ?
It is the year 2059 ultimate bet is still scamming people.
Well what do you expect when you put a former bookie in charge of a ton of money in a reputable poker site
Benny Binion knows quite a bit about stealing. He got in to the casino industry by walking in to a numbers house, pulling out a gun, and saying this is mine now.
I got into online poker in late 2004. I’ll never forget when PH actually had the losing hand and the pot got dragged to him. I stopped on UB shortly after lol.
I actually managed to withdraw from UB before shit hit the fan. Then I got scammed by party poker. First they refused to let me cash out when laws changed but they would accept deposits that I could gamble with and then later simply zeroed my balance without giving me shit. It's sad that basically only pokerstars was legit in the whole industry. When that's the place where I had the weirdest losses in my million plus hands played XD
@@themaharishi8160 Mate, I thought that PS was realy legit, but...My personal feeling is that, comparing with pros playing the PS, lower quality players are always fucked up. Always! Random generator is bad for us. It is incredible when you loose nuts hands 11 times in a row, isn"t it!?
@@milanbisercic9338 there has NEVER been a RNG scandal in online poker
@@milanbisercic9338 I personally feel the same way..it plays much different then all other sites...I can't explain what's going on...but I definitely feel the same way
@@Coryalan2 Not yet. Mate, it is impossible that so much hands played can be explained in normal way. My personal experience is awfull, trust me. Most of the players try to convince me that this situation is normal, compared with the number of hands. For me it is not. I strongly believe that pro players on PS are somehow prority, compared to us, small ball players. I was watching the games between the pros, nothing simmilar ever happened! As soon as I sit down, RNG goes wild. Cannot explain why, but my nuts preflop, on the flop and turn, always, I repeat, ALWAYS goes in flames on the river. Nobody can make me believe that RNG isn"t rigged. That is why I stopped online games, and somehow, managed to cut my loses more than 95% playing only live games. In less than 5 months I made more than 47k euro win. No online sites will ever see me again.
PS: I am sure that in a short time this story with RNG will be uncovered.
A chief lawyer for this gambling site also worked for FTX in 2022! Corrupt country.
yes america is trash
Swear all poker sites to this day still use these tatics to make themselves rich and us poor hence why I quit online poker which is a massive scam
America's Card Room Is a scam
Milk is a scam
Yeah I’m just realizing this as well. Lost a ton of money on Global poker man. Never in my life have I been on such a losing streak . Almost 90% all to bad beats with opponents hitting 1-2 outers.. I’m gonna give up online poker as well. Have this crap a try during this pandemic and wish I never would have!! Everyone reading my comments that are in Global poker do yourselves a favor and delete your account and play live poker. Real cards do not lie and your odds are way better playing live. Stop making these con artist business men running these poker sites rich in your bankrolls!!
@@kaseone6896 look up the amount of RNG scandals there have been in the history of online poker and you might be surprised (it's ZERO)
@@Coryalan2 well considering computers can't generate random numbers especially with 52 "cards" making all those combinations impossible for a computer to generate on its own without human programming id say you probably don't have a clue.. the hands are created for action. The site will determine who wins and who loses. Why doesn't the sites show their source code for the rng? If its legit why doesn't anyone show their RNG? Because they're not all the same smart guy
Hellmuths personality type(entj) is known for being the most prone to chasing power and being weasely.
Great video, even 5 years later as I'm seeing it for the 1st time
Stuart Hoegner, the director of compliance at Excapsa, is now the General Counsel for Bitfinex lol
Don't know how Phil Helmuth got a pass on this he was knee-deep in this scam.
There’s zero even in this that shows Phil knee deep in it. He’s basically guilty of taking his paycheck after they started refunding players. Well, and still defending his friends for a while.
Also wanted to let you know you might want to change the title, bc it doesnt pop up on first page of google when searching ulitmate beat
This is an absolutely amazing doc
If you had access to this seeing other player's cards you could sell it for a piece of their ill gotten gains.
This will get turned into a movie one day.. just wait and see..
Great job, 3rd time watching (1st time free thx). Are the payout lists received published on 2p2 or anywhere else?
This needs a movie
100% Phil was heavily involved
Maybe not 100% but Hellmuth knew what was going on and kept taking his paycheck, sponsor monies and getting re-imbursed for his tournament fees and travel perks. Again if Hellmuth was so righteous he shouldve given his salaries to the players that were cheated.
What's so shocking about this Documentary, was the impression, that this wasn't going on more, than I suspect it actually was/is!!!!
So, nobody was jailed !!!?? wow
at 56:13 the police was a board member
@@klauseba the police got a cut.
I feel like this is PokerStars now
Eye opening to say the least... Thanks 👍
Well done for posting this ... great job
All online poker is a scam.... if you disagree I know a Kazikstan prince who will give you 4 billion dollars if you send him $2,000 first.
"Phil's an idiot..." Had me right there. So true.
If you watch Polk vs Negranu, Daniel acts like a bigger baby than Phil. He hides his nice guy image.
@@therainmakerinsider
But he has turrets
Supreme Leader Army 🤣🤣🤣
This really changed my mind on some of those big poker names involved... also can the govt freakin legalize and regulate this already?
Drssslslss bca ssrsrrs
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There has been cheating in poker from the start. Online poker just made it easier and you won’t get back roomed or killed. Full Tilt Poker was the worst and Howard, Ferguson and Russ didn’t do anything they liked using other players money as there personal bank roll. Full Tilt pros also liked the money. Ultimate Bet was the same and Phil Hellmuth was just the main promoter and because he never played with the cheating software he got a pass and the poker community gave Phil a second chance. Full Tilt made me stop playing poker and my interest in it. Poker is great game but it’s also sleazy but if you made millions in the poker boom and you didn’t go broke because your extremely good your set for life.
Now we fully understand why PH is always a short stack buy in on streams today…that risk free, free rolls is smoked
Watching this for the second time, five years after my first watch. Man, the guy who made this did a fantastic job. Great interviews, masterful coverage of the material. If I have a single criticism, it's about the storytelling aspect of the film. I watched it, having followed the story as it played out on 2+2, so I knew what had happened, how it had happened and why. If I was coming to this story fresh, knowing nothing about it, I'm not sure if I'd be able to follow it. There's possibly too much information.
If you know the basic outline of the story though, it's great. You can just wallow in geekish pleasure at the sheer quantity of the detail,
As someone with zero knowledge of this before watching, I honestly appreciate the amount of detail and that nothing was left out. But then again, I always prefer this as it really illuminates how understandably human the process of conspiracies like this are, like it isn’t some maniacal, meticulously crafted scheme, it’s just a bunch of skeezy, worthless people getting together and deciding to make a quick buck, and because like attracts like, one person with no dignity is gonna be tight with others with no dignity.
Amazing documentary. Thank you.
"A lack of consequences .... " Indeed!
The statute of limitations for federal fraud cases is 7 years.
Leave it up to Hellmuth to design something where he wins every hand lol
outstanding research and presentation!
I remember watching LFISGD play O8 on Full Tilt... seemed like he won at least 1/2 of every single pot. 👍
Why does it say special thanks to Tom Dwan in the credits?
The more people dig into the poker world the more you will realize the "great" players have all been in some sort of scandal to profit big on cheating ppl.
I always did well on Absolute Poker, but Party Poker was so shady. The calls people made against me was sometimes ridiculous. I’ll never forget the screen name ZeeJustin who called a massive bluff against me with 11 people left in a big Sunday tourney. Yes, I had rags...but this player had 32 and only a pair of 2’s which he caught on the river. ~ I quit playing online poker after that call.
I'm not sure if you're being facetious but that guy went on to become a well know player
That well known player was also accused of multi-accounting, so who knows if he had 3 or 4 other accounts sitting at that table with Pale Zombie, and who knows if the cards in the hands of those other accounts gave that well known player enough information in the hand (i.e. blockers) to turn a fold into a call with 32... I'm just sayin''... and yeah, that well known player has certainly gone on to prove himself in the one field we think we can safely assume is essentially free from any cheating scandals... the live poker arena. That well known player has excelled beyond the dreams of most poker players, phenomenal success... that helps to reduce suspicion, certainly, but it was a well-known fact that MA was illegal even back then... some of the young kids just didn't care. If a human believes they can get away with cheating and not get caught, well guess what? Most of those humans are gonna go ahead and cheat. It's out human nature to be unethical and immoral, that's my conclusion drawn from my decades of life experience... being a perfectly ethical and moral human being is certainly the road much less traveled. We're all flawed in our own unique way. :-)
@@asb3pe So what is the name of that player??? I find it hard to believe he would call a x3.5 raise pre flop, then call 40k and 60k on the turn and river with 3 high...then catches a 2 and flat calls 95% of his stack on a 8810K2 board. No draws, just calling all his chips to catch a 3 or 2 on the bubble of a final table 200+15 buy-in. I had AQ off. I bet 60k and he had roughly 62k left. That was shady, to say the least. Now you tell me he had multiple accounts, which is also cheating or immoral at the very least.
@@msxmurda2385 ZeeJustin is Justin Bonomo
the multi-accounting accusations against Justin from years ago is not a secret, it is easy to find with a web search, I simply did not want to name him directly but even using his screen name in a search will bring you to his story. He was far from alone in trying to gain advantage via MA, many players were secretly doing the same thing, and I bet most of them never got caught, Justin just happened to be one that was... I play poker, but I also read my Bible... and I subscribe to the wisdom and guidance of 1 Timothy 6-10, I don't play poker to get rich, I play poker for the love of the game. That makes me a weirdo in our "love of money" world, trust me. LOL The path less traveled is a lonely one.
Who says crime don't pay , snatch a purse from an old lady you get 6 months , steel a billion from mug punters and you get a trophy wife , a private jet , and life style of a movie star.
Dan Friedberg is now the Chief Regulatory Officer of FTX the crypto exchange. lol.
LOOOOOOOL most based observation of all time
I'm starting to suspect Bovada
Great doc , thank you 🙏
This stuff still goes on, you cannot convince me that ignition poker is on the up and up.
@CarlitoJr888 ruclips.net/video/65egrsu8HPc/видео.html all pokersites Are RIGGED and RIGGEDSTARS ARE THE ONE ON TOP OF THE SCAMERS.
@CarlitoJr888 what's your experience with BCP so far? On a new account with 0 money, out of 15 freerolls I could hardly get into the paid top 200 four times, but on another account in which I uploaded 25 dollars I could win so many pre-flop all-ins even when I was up against AA pairs and got to the 7th position easily.
@CarlitoJr888 Yeah it's good to have notes and report suupicious accounts.
Me and my cousins have been looking for an independent & Regulated site, but it feels like all of them belong to a network of unregulated ones. BCP for example is part of the Winning Poker Networks group.
On other sites like Unibet for example my cousins notice they only let him win up to 40 euros, after that you lose with any hand you play, then from 30 again you can win until 40...
@@klauseba if you are getting all in preflop a lot against AA......
This is why I will never play online poker again.. Its much more enjoyable to go to a casino and watch the cards being dealt
Wasnt annie Duke involved in the full tilt bs aswell?
She was involved in the failed Epic Poker League
Her brother
43:57
Where I'm at right now after an impossible run of "bad luck" on America's Cardroom. Hundreds of tourneys across months, suffering 2&3 outers, running everything to lose massive pots/tourney life. I have lost all self confidence after playing for 30+ years and having had dealt poker in a huge casino for 7 years and always profitted. Now I can't dodge a 2 outer to save my life. I'm not sure if I'll ever play real poker again because of America's Cardroom's bots, super users and setups. Never in my life have I ever questioned my abilities, and I do now at 44 yo. I'm beside myself in shock.
Not sure how anybody could trust playing online poker ever again
Wow, how come I’ve never heard of this. Why are the players reputation not ruined. I would of outed them so bad.
Okeeey, thats why i use to lose %80 my flips
it not the sites.🤔
Playing online vs playing live is so so different , playing live you very seldom get called when your opponent hasn't hit after the flop playing online you'll get called for all your chips and get done by runner runner , this doesn't happen anywhere near as often live , why ?
or maybe, just MAYBE....You just suck at poker?
Isn’t Annie Duke the sister of Howard Lederer? Nuff said…
Can we have these guys check into clubwpt? It's beyond ridiculous the ways bad beats repeatedly happen on there. And I'm talking about 2% runner runner type beats literally every 5 hands.
Yo! I’ve been dealing with the same thing on ClubWPT. Haven’t talked about it much but there’s some bs going on! 9/10 times you will lose if you are the small stack going all in against a big stack. I’ve noticed this more frequently towards the end of a tournament. Like less than 50 people left. I’ve lost every single push all in with about 85-95% favorite to win. My opponent will catch the one card they need on the river to win. I totally get not making it sometimes but every time? Nah something feels very off with this site. Both times today I lost to a flush on the river with a random card. Outplayed and out flopped the other player. Last night I played and got down to one solid big blind amount left. Pushed all in with QQ and got called by the person left of me. They won with pocket AA. Understandable right? They also won with pocket AA the hand previously!! AA twice in a row!? Possible but suspect. But every time I got AA and I’m short stacked in a tournament, push all in, and get called with JJ and lose to the chip leader. I can’t even begin to to recall all the times I’m 95% favorite to win and my opponent makes the exact card they needed on the river. Plays out so frequently. Is it the players? No I don’t think so. But something isn’t right here. I’m guessing they want to eliminate as many players as quick as they can, who are short stacked, and getting close to the final table. I believe this is why so many chip leaders push all in so much because they know the site favors big stacks. Idk I’m frustrated. And many people are saying the same thing as us!
My head is spinning trying to understand all of this, especially the last half
Online poker sites keep players around as long as possible to rake their balls off and keep player numbers high
1:09:32 so glad I am not that human. That picture right there is what you call a royal piece of dogshit
Howard lederer and annie duke should be in prison for what they did to the poker world and lose everything they own and add russ hamilton in there as well mike matasow told a story about how he was cheated so bad in online poker it made his live cash game suffer because he had so many bad beats online it changed the way he played live and won alot less money than before he played scared then he found out hamilton could see his hole cards on his screen i wish legit online poker would come back but those day are over it ruined slot of people on black friday!!
Who else knows the music from 34:10 from Ocean’s 12?
feel like im playing the wrong game when it is so populated with cheaters scammers and just plain filth and here I am trying to go for it legitimately no wonder its called a pipe dream
@Whisper-that truth-shss There's nothing to stop all the companies easily doing this, or getting fake people to sit next to you on your table.
U pretty much summed up life in general. Not really but kinda 😏
We (ok, I) naively assume that a big online betting site, or poker site, is 'legit', - I mean, how could it be run by fraudsters?
That is, until you work with people in business, and realise how people are utterly venal and rapacious for the dollar.
Pathetic creatures.
Yup I realized this at a young age..and I thought it was all about hardwork and integrity when I got my first office job...boy was I wrong. I was disgusted and not only left the office world but left North America as it reeked of BS everywhere.
Can some one tell me why many of these players still plays on live circuts (specially Phil helmut) and isnt banned?
Pick the ones you think are the real crooks. Good guesses.
Because hes a terrible player who had to cheat to get to where he is. Now he just donates because hes terrible
Because that is what Mr. Helmuth does. That is part of where he is making money and so is a bit of a whale. IE investors most of all most likely do not want to ban their whales especially if the whale generates a lot of media attetion (Free Advertising). You talk of circuits. But are those circuits owned by an individual or open circuits with out owners which can be used by any one. Now adays he owns his own poker room. So not so easy to ban a man from his own house. Who is to ban him if many or most of the big sites are playing the same game. I mean operating the same cheats, scams, thefts or tactics?
the first time I saw Phil Hell's face. at television and knew that he had won 10 Bracelet his face had intrigue me a lot I knew he had something with cheating and I was 18 years at the time I do not trust the camera on poker table either.
Most of his bracelets were won during the 90's when the fields were much smaller and weaker.
I wonder, do people like this set out to prey on people, or do they start out honest but find themselves in a position to "capitalize" on others, that's too hard for them to resist? Probably some of both. I think some people think morals and ethics are for suckers, or it's a ploy to get people to put their guard down. Others maybe give in and decide that it(cheating) is the only way to succeed. Life lesson best learned early: The world is riddled with crooks, can't trust anyone so be mindful of what you expose.
I gave up live poker because there were people there that looked like they really needed their money, and I didn't want to take it, even though I knew someone else would. Whatever it was that caused me to not want to be a part of their losing their money, I think that's what these people lack. You could say they're ruthless, they're jaded, or they're sociopaths. I don't know. But they're not the sort of people you want to hang out with.
anyone who believes online decks of cards were ever legitimate is a chump
As a regular punter I looked at this online poker and to be honest the very first thoughts I had was "No accountability", common sense told me to stay the fuck away.
I'm surprised that Annie Duke's brother Howard Lederer was never mentioned in the documentary. I'm not suggesting guilt but he and Chris Furguson both disappeared after the scandal. Innocent people don't hide in my world.
Now U.B has become Dominion Servers
I checked called pot ripper down once for 40k pot and quit him....I knew this account was fraud from day one....dude had no show down losses ever
GGPoker might be a better site because there they show each player's statistics, total winnings, maybe even when the account was created... but I uninstalled it because it didn't have freerolls and my cousin said he doesn't know/trust it as it might be part of that big mafia ring of sites which all look the same just have a different color and are owned by the same parent company.
Now gg bans the best players wtf stupid shit
Makes you wonder which casinos on foreign soil are partaking in this
Incredible documentary
There are several names left out here, Lederer, Ferguson, etc.