I had a 120 gallon galvanized tank replaced with a CVS and 35 gallon bladder tank. The system works great. I now have constant water pressure without the hammering and pump cycling. This is a great invention. Thanks for the information.
Have had my cvs1a valve for 3 years now works great no problems originally called the owner up had a great conversation what a gentleman and down to earth man, This should be in every home especially if you have your own well system like myself.
I found a well guy who has been in business over 20 years. He has a very good reputation in this area. He knew all about the CVS. He had some very good comments about the CVS. He is coming tomorrow to replace my 80 gallon galvanized tank and install a CVS with a 30 gallon tank. Thanks again.
Thanks for the video. This looks like the system I need. I have a large galvanized tank in a small room inside the laundry room. Last year I had my 1 hp submersible replaced with a 2 hp pump so I would have more water for irrigation. The problem I'm having now is the pump constantly cycles and the tank makes a loud noise when the pump shuts off. The well guy suggests I run more sprinklers to keep the pump from recycling. Now I running sprinklers that I don't need.
All my comments seem to have been removed. I don't know why. So I will just reply to everyone here. Rodger, of course you need conduit and the correct connectors. This video is already 6 minutes long, and showing conduit would just take that much longer, Sorry. B Adams, the CSV will eliminate the pump cycling, eliminate the water hammer noise on shut off, and you won’t have to run but one sprinkler at a time if you want. Arshi khur, you don’t understand how the CSV works. Even with the little tank that only holds 1 gallon, the pump will continue to run for as long as you are using water. It doesn’t cycle for every gallon used. Sissy Murphy, If you had a CSV in with that 20 gallon tank than only holds 5 gallons of water, that pump would still be working today. A pump will cycle itself to death with only a 20 gallon size tank, but not with a CSV attached. Jon Mehlferber, we have documented pumps lasting as much as 400% longer when using a CSV. But the pumps we are studying are now only 22 years old and still working, so that number will get longer the longer CSV’s are in existence. Eddie Kilby, you can use the CSV with any size tank. Capacitors are needed to make a pump system start, but have nothing to do with how long a pump last.
Cary - If I install the Pside-kick kit could I also put a larger bladder tank in the mix to further decrease the pump cycles. If I could increase the tank draw down to about 5 gallons instead of only the one gallon draw down with the kit tank, it seems that I could further reduce pump cycles. For instance, a low volume toilet flush would not cause a pump cycle. Am I thinking this through correctly and will a second tank work with the kit system>
carry, unless there is something I'm not taking into account, this system is still causing "short cycles ". depending on the psi settings on the switch the drawdown on a 119 gal is approx 34 gal. that means that you could fill seven-5gal buckets before the pump turns on. with this system the pump would turn on fifteen times for the same seven buckets. (if not despensed at one time). I am sure this will raise the utility bill and kill the pump. there is also the probability of introducing more solid matter (sand) into plumbing since there are more pump start ups.
You just keep thinking about it as you are getting close to figuring out how this works. The little 4.5 gallon size tank only holds 1 gallon of water. So the pump will have to come on anytime you use more than 1 gallon. But with the CSV attached the pump will never shut off as long as you are using more than 1 GPM. When you fill a 5 gallon bucket the CSV will make the pump stay on until the bucket is full, plus at least another 30 seconds to refill the little pressure tank. When you need 50 gallons to take a shower the CSV makes the pump stay on for as long as the shower is running, plus another 30 seconds to refill the pressure tank. During that 30 seconds it takes to refill the little pressure tank, if you start filling another bucket, turn on another shower, or use water anywhere inside or outside the house, the pump just continues to run. It doesn't hurt a pump to come on every time you use water like to flush a toilet. I mean how many times a day will toilets be flushed anyway, 20, 30, maybe 50 times at most? And as long as you do a second flush within a minute of the last flush, the pump never shuts off. So you could stand there and flush the toilet 1000 times and the pump would only cycle on once for all of that. Even starting a pump 50 times per day doesn't hurt the pump. It especially doesn't hurt the pump as much as 100-300 cycles per day like when running irrigation or a heat pump. The CSV takes all ALL the cycles for anything running for extended periods of time. This eliminates more cycles than you could ever put on the pump just filling 1 bucket or flushing 1 toilet at a time. The most important thing is that the CSV does not let the pump shut off while you are using water. The pump only shuts off when no more water is being used. This gives the motor plenty of time to cool down before water is needed again. This is unlike a system without a CSV in that the pump cycles on and off continually WHILE you are using water. This means the pump comes on many times per day before it has had time to cool down, which is the worst thing you can do to a pump/motor. With a CSV... The pump does not use more electricity. It does not cycle more. Makes the pump system last longer. Using a smaller tank saves money and space. And you get strong constant pressure in the house instead of continuously varying pressure as with the old pressure tank only method.
So the cycle stop valve make your pump run more steady. I can see that as a very good thing Starting a motor cost more than running. But couldn't I use it with my 5 gallon pressure tank? And do you think capacitors would prolong the life of my pump.
HI Richard As we discussed on the phone because I didn't see this, in your case, as in most, there is no reason to have a tank any larger than the 4.5 gallon tank that comes with the Pside-Kick kit. Now if you were working pressures higher than 40/60, like 80/100, or if this system supplies more than 1 house, then a larger tank would be beneficial.
If I use this CSV I would like my pressure to be as close to 50psi all the time, if possible. (Not dropping to 40psi then going back to 50psi.) Can the Pside-Kick be adjusted to stay at 50psi? If it can, how? Thanks
Seems like the biggest downfall of this kind of system is a complete lack of water during a power outage. Probably not even one flush. I still use an air-over-water tank and it always has many flushes left in it when the power goes off. Maybe 20 gallons or so. I would switch to bladder but bladder tanks seem to always be nearly empty when the power goes off.
That is about the only advantage to the old air over water tank systems. There are many other disadvantages for using an old hydro-pneumatic style tank that a bladder tank solves. If your greatest design characteristic is how much water you have when the power is off there are much better ways to accomplish this. An emergency generator is best. Battery operated pump is another good option. Even the old hand pump backup will work. If power going off is your biggest concern, what are you going to do when the power is off for a longer period of time? 20 gallons of low pressure drain from a hydro tank might last a few hours, but when an ice storm or something shuts the power down for longer, a better plan will be needed. A more dependable supply of power is your best option.
Ive had hydro-pneumatic tanks for 15 years and theve been nothing but trouble. The air volume control is always going bad from hard water mineral deposits and we get water logged quite often. I hate them. Ready for a whole new system and this seems like a winner
I have a 2003 Goulds 1/2hp shallow well jet pump hooked up to a 35 gallon storage barrel and a 55 gallon rain barrel. Because I have 2 sources to draw water from I have ball valves on the suction side so I can switch sources. Anyway I did a test where I restrict the pump using the suction side ball valve and the pump draws about 840W no matter how far I close down the valve. Does that mean a CSV will increase electricity usage?
Never restrict the suction and starve a pump for water. And no the CSV is on the discharge side of the pump and when restricting the discharge of a pump you can expect the amps to drop by 30-50%.
The CSV will hold the pressure steady at 50 PSI as long as you are using water. Only when you shut off all the faucets and are no longer using water will the CSV let the pressure build to 60 PSI so the pressure switch can shut the pump off. Then when you open a faucet next time the pressure will drop from 60 to 40 before the pressure switch starts the pump. Then the pressure will quickly climb to 50, where the CSV will hold it steady as long as you are using water. If you are always at 50 PSI, there is never any water goes into or out of the pressure tank. So the pump would start every time the faucet dripped one single drop. The 20 PSI bandwidth is so you can get some draw down out of the tank during times when the pump is off. Any time the pump is on, the CSV will hold 50 PSI forever as long as you are using water. Now you can run the CSV at 60 and use a 50/70 pressure switch. Then you could put a pressure reducing valve on the discharge of the tank set at 50, and you would always have 50 PSI at the house, but the pump and pressure tank will be working from 50 to 70 to make that happen without the pump cycling itself to death. But if you use the CSV with one of the 4.5 gallon size tanks as comes in the Pside-Kick kit, the tank only holds a gallon of water. That way the drop to 40 happens so fast you won't see it, then the pump is on and the CSV will hold steady 50 PSI as long as you are using water. The 40/60 bandwidth is to make use of the pressure tank, it has nothing to do with the steady 50 PSI the CSV will deliver.
If I understand this correctly -- this valve would not help a pump system much if the system has a huge pressure tank and the water is run infrequently and only for short spurts ( running sink faucet for a few seconds to wash your hands, etc ) But for basically ANY other scenario ( more frequent use -or- longer duration use -or- small tank ) you would get the same water usage but with less frequent pump on/off cycling. Is all this about right ?
Pretty close. And if you have any long duration uses of water, the CSV eliminates cycling enough to more than make up for any extra cycles during short term water uses.
Confused. Do the two pressure tanks in the video have the air bladders or are they just holding, no bladder, tanks? If they have no air bladders does this CSV help with systems using air bladder type pressure well tanks? It's my understanding the bladder tanks help to run the pump less. My tank is bad and it cycles about every 5 seconds when any water is being run. Since my air bladder went bad and filled up with water I have to replace it ASAP I'm told or my pump will go bad due to the rapid cycling. Now if I had a CSV valve that would sure help right now and cycle less, BUT with a good bladder pressure tank is this valve beneficial?
Yes the big tank being replaced and the little 4.5 gallon tank that comes with the Pside-Kick kit and CSV are both bladder tanks. If you are replacing an old bladder tank all you need is the Pside-Kick kit with the new 4.5 gallon size tank and CSV1A.
Hi Justin Yes both tanks in the video are bladder or more correctly diaphragm tanks. With a CSV you still need a good tank, but it only needs to be the little 4.5 gallon size. Without a CSV the larger the bladder tank the slower the cycling, but it still cycles while using water. With a CSV the pump NEVER cycles while using water so a little pressure tank is all you need.
If I"m not mistaken this set up will still cause the pump to short cycle when someone just uses one gallon of water at a time. Like a toilet flush. Same as having a pressure tank, but a larger pressure tank would handle a toilet flush..What about adding a larger tank to this set up?
Average for a house pump without a CSV and a so called properly sized tank is about 30 cycles per day. Cycles per day with a CSV and the little 4.5 gallon size tank is still only 30 times per day. So for house only use any money spent on a larger tank is wasted money, that is a "negative". Now when you run a sprinkler in the yard, fill the swimming pool, or use water for any length of time like a long shower, the CSV causes only 1 cycle, where the large tank without a CSV would cycle the pump 100-300 times per day. But I understand your hesitation, as it has taken 25 years for me to understand all the positives of the CSV. You won't understand it until you try it. The CSV makes all the difference in the world.
@@cyclestopvalves8380...I love the idea of constant water pressure. While looking through the comments, one of the pluses you mentioned is how the system will constantly run instead of cycling hundreds of times during the use of sprinklers. I have a 1hp shallow well pump with a 62gl tank. Pressure set at 40/60 with a 17gl drawdown. When I turn my 8 zone, 4 head per zone sprinkler system on, the pump kicks on after the drawdown and doesn’t shut off until the last zone is finished and the well tank is refilled, why is that?
@@gman3918 Because your pump is sized perfectly for 4 heads at a time. If you try to run 1 or 3 heads at a time the pump will cycle like crazy. Designing the irrigation system to exactly match the output of the pump was the only way to prevent cycling in the past. But then the pump is using all the water for the sprinklers, and there is none left if someone wants to take a shower while the sprinklers are on. This means the sprinkler zones need to be run at off peak hours like 3AM. With a CSV you can match your sprinkler requirements to the yard and not the pump. So you can run 1, 2, or 3 sprinklers on zones that are not large enough for 4 sprinklers. When running 3 or less sprinklers on a zone the pump has plenty of water left and showers can be taken at any time. Then even if your sprinkler system can use 4 sprinklers on every zone, the CSV will still give strong constant pressure to the showers instead of cycling and varying the pressure up and down from 40 to 60 over and over. Just remember that if your zones are already set up to use all the water the pump can produce, adding a CSV will make the pressure a little lower on those large zones.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 The better way is to change the sprinkler nozzles to get the desired water consumption. They are rated in gpm. The pump would continue to run while leaving water available for the house.
@@trustme7731 Oh if it were only that easy. If the sprinklers are designed to use all the water the pump can produce to keep the pump from cycling on and off, where is anymore water going to come from when the house needs water? The pressure will get lower and lower the more water the house uses, and neither the people in the house nor the sprinklers will be happy with the trickle from the taps. But that was the best you could do 30 years ago before Cycle Stop Valves. Now it is easy to do better as simply adding a Cycle Stop Valve to a regular pressure tank/pump system will let you have your cake and eat it too. With a CSV not only will you be able to match the sprinkler zones to the yard instead of the demands of the pump, but sprinkler and shower pressure will so impressive you will no longer need soap in the shower. Lol!
Correct me if I am wrong, but an inverter controller operated via a processor does much the same thing? My inverter keeps the pump on as long as I have the taps on ...which is what you are saying the CSV does too? In fact would a CSV even work or add anything to my system? I have inverter type that makes 3phase variable frequency drive is what it is called ...when this system fails finally I might rather have more of a mechanical system but this is what came with the home ...little 2 or 4 gallon pressure tank btw...which is BAD which is why I am even looking for information!
You are exactly right. Cycle Stop Valves were designed to replace VFD's or Inverters. Instead of varying the speed, the CSV just makes the pump think it is in a deeper well, when lesser amounts of water are being used. Any pump can put out more water from a shallow well than from a deep well. The CSV just restricts the flow with a valve, simulating a deeper well, so the pump puts out less water when needed. A simple 50# spring pushes the valve open when the pressure is less than 50 PSI, and lets the valve close when there is more than 50 PSI. The hard part to understand is that these kinds of pumps use less energy when they are restricted with a valve, the same way they use less energy when slowed down with a complex computerized inverter. The constant pressure from an inverter (VFD) system is a good thing. However, a simple valve with a spring in the right place can do the exact same thing. Inverters are way cheaper and better than when I started replacing them with CSV's about 25 years ago, but they still have there problems. Once you've had constant pressure you can't go back. Switching from the inveter to a CSV just makes pump systems cost less, last longer, and be more reliable. Because nobody likes waking up to a house with no water.
A 50-60 gallon pressure tank only holds about 15 gallons of water. 15 gallons doesn't go very far in a house that uses 300-400 gallons per day. Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tank. All the tank is for is to reduce the Cycling on/off, and when you have a CSV to do that for you, the tank is almost a moot point. So the only down side is that you will see pressure decreasing for 5 minutes into a 3 GPM shower before the pump comes on and the CSV starts delivering strong constant pressure. A larger tank won't hurt a thing except your pocket book. But some people tell me they learn to wait 5 minutes before getting in the shower so they don't have to wait for the good pressure, and that doesn't happen with a smaller tank.
My current pressure tank is leaking water from the air valve and sounds like its full of water so I probably need a new one. If I get a small tank and CSV, how much water will I have if I lose power (it usually happens a couple times a year)? Thx for the info! Also, can I order the tank and CSV from you?
+Curtis Abod A 4.5 gallon size pressure tank holds 1 gallon of water. A 44 gallon size pressure tank only holds 12 gallons of water. But you shouldn't count on a pressure tank giving any water when the power goes off. It has to do with how much pressure is in the system when the power goes off. With a 40/60 pressure switch, the pressure would have to accidently be at 60 when the power goes off to have whatever the tank can hold. If the pressure is at 41 when the power goes off, as Murphy's law says it will be, then there is basically no water left in any size pressure tank.But the CSV will work with any size tank. And with a CSV you have a much better chance of the tank being full when the power goes off. This is because the way the CSV works, it will make sure you are finished using water before it fills the tank and the pump shuts off. Without a CSV the pump just goes on and off between 40 and 60 all the time. So there is a bigger chance that the tank will not be full when the power goes off. I keep a couple of 5 gallon jugs of water in a closet. That is the only real way to be sure you have some water when the power goes off.
I asked a friend living in the usa to buy me a csv for my residenence in Jamaica. The problem is that I miss quoted the info. and is now stuck with a csv12550-3. My pump is 1/2 hp and I really needed a csv 12550-1 or the most a csv12550-2, the pressure switch is 1.5 bars/2.5 bars. Is there anyway to convert? I noticed a spring on the inside.
With a 1/2 HP jet pump the -3 is still OK. With the low differential pressure of a jet pump you really need the -3 to get 1 GPM minimum anyway. With a 1/2HP submersible you would need the -1.
The CSV will work with any size tank. You just need to set the CSV at 57 when using a 40/60 switch so it only takes a couple minutes to fill the tank after all the faucets are turned off. When the time comes that you need a new tank, a 4.5 or 10 gallon size is all you need.
How much longer would you expect a submersible (in well) pump to last using this system vs. a typical pressure tank with bladder? No problem using this system along with an array of backwashing filters (for iron, etc.) and water softener? Thanks.
The PK1A is still all you need to control the pump. You may need the 10 gallon size tank so you can turn the pressure up, as you need enough pressure to make up for the 1,000' of friction loss and the elevation height.
Cycle Stop Valves Thank you! This a new developed spring and of course I was going to buy an 85 gallon or larger pressure tank to operate the house from, but I think I’m going to install your valve and try that before I buy a big tank that may end up being a waste of money.
can this be used without eliminating the large pressure tank. my understanding has always been short cycles are pump killers and surge start up consume much more electricity.
Sure you can use a CSV with any size tank. But larger tanks are just wasting your money. Since the CSV makes the water go right past the tank straight to the faucet, it doesn't matter if it is a 1 gallon or a million gallon size tank. Plus the larger the tank the longer you have to wait to see the strong constant pressure from the CSV. But at least once the big tank is empty and the pump starts you will finally see the strong constant pressure from the CSV. Even an 80 gallon size pressure tank only holds 20 gallons of water. Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tank. All the pressure tank was ever designed to do was reduce the cycling. And when you have a CSV to do that for you, a large tank is no longer needed. But a CSV works fine with a large tank and doing so won't hurt anything expect for your pocketbook and loss of space.
If the pump is cycling on and off while you are using water the CSV is not working. I would guess the ditch settled and broke the pipe as is usually the case.
If space for a large tank is not a problem, and initial draw-down change in pressure from 60 to 40 psi is not a problem, it seems to me it would be better for the pump to have a large tank AND a Cycle Stop Valve, so that small intermittent water uses do not cycle the pump as often. Let's say it's very normal to use less than 2 gallons of water at a time; like a toilet flush or filling a cooking pot. With that small tank, every time I use 1-2 gallons the pump will turn on to refill the tank. But if I have a large pressure tank (say 80 gal, 20 gal usable between 60-40psi) then I could flush do 10 small water usages before the pump cycles on. With a small tank, the pump is more likely to cycle on for every water use, whether large or small, but with a large tank, the pump will only cycle on every time for every large water use, like bath/shower, and will only cycle on maybe every 10 times for small water usages, like filling a pot of water. Am I wrong here? I just don't understand why replace a large tank with a small tank, when installing csv. It seems a large tank + csv is the best solution foe someone with the space who doesn't mind the initial draw-down from 60-40psi.
You are correct. However, after 28 years of doing this we realize the big tank is a waste of money, space, and even makes the pressure worse. The CSV takes out so many cycles for long term uses like showers and sprinklers, you really can't add back enough cycles by flushing toilets with the small tank to hurt anything. Sure the big tank might save 10 cycles per day compared to the small tank when used just for the house. But the CSV is saving hundreds of cycles for showers and sprinklers, so 10 cycles a day for toilets is nothing. In 28 years I have answered the same questions several thousand times. So, I can tell you what will happen. You will like the strong constant pressure from the CSV so much you will learn to hate waiting on the 20 gallons in an 80 gallon tank to be used. While you are using the 20 gallons from the tank the pressure will be dropping from 60 all the way to 40, and will hover at 41 for a long time. Once the tank is empty and the pump starts, the CSV will maintain a constant 50-55 PSI for the rest of the shower, even if you shower for a month. Some tell me they just wait for the tank to empty and the pressure to get strong before they even get in the shower. Others call me wanting to decrease the pressure switch bandwidth from 40/60 to 50/60 or even 55/60. A 55/60 pressure switch setting on a 80 gallon tank is the same as having a 20 gallon tank. When they finally switch out the big tank for the small tank, all their pressure problems and wasting water until the big tank is empty goes away. I know it is counter intuitive, but pumps are counter intuitive. Go ahead and add a CSV to y our big tank system, as it will work fine. But once you see how the CSV works you will realize the big tank is a waste and a nuisance.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 This response is EXCELLENT! Thanks for taking the time to clear this up by explaining your experience and understanding so fully and plainly that it really makes sense. I am building a pressure tank system on my new well (500ft), with a 1hp Grundfos two-wire smooth-start deep well pump (8gpm), running on a small off-grid solar setup, which will be used very infrequently for an RV, light gardening, and the occasional tractor washing for the next three years, until we build our home and hook up to the grid, to then use the well like a more traditional household. For the first three years, I care little about constant pressure but a lot about power usage, and after three years I will care a lot about constant pressure and very little about power usage. Whatcha think? And thanks again for really good info! (I also have read your forum posts, about CSV being similar to pressure valve, but all the work engineering the half-moon hole, etc.... I think you are right to defend your work the way you do.)
@@Gruuvin1 Thanks! To be such a simple valve the CSV has a complicated explanation. With solar power you need to store energy to use water when the sun is not shining. You can use the CSV with a small tank and get an extra battery. Or you can use a big tank without a CSV and store water instead of KWs. However, with a big pressure tank you need to make sure it is pumped full before the sun sets, and then the 20 gallons from an 80 gallon pressure tank is all you have. Whereas with an extra battery topped off, you have as much water as you want during the night or cloudy days.
@@Gruuvin1 Brass was great for hundreds of years. But after the lead fiasco in Flint, the government wanted to pass the blame on to the lead in the pipes, which was never a problem, instead of blaming the idiot government officials who opened up the acidic water supply from the river and caused the problem to start with. After that, real brass was made illegal because it has lead in it. Lead is a very important part of the brass recipe. Without lead, it is mostly copper, and just flakes off green chunks like the Statue of Liberty. We tried the low lead brass and it sucked badly. So, the CSV1A is made of 304SS, not Nickle, but it may look like Nickle. You can thank your government for making the old long lasting brass illegal, while shortening the life and more than tripling the cost of all plumbing products.
So I'm thinking about adding the CSV to my existing 81 gallon pressure tank, or getting rid of it and using your small tank. My pressure tank and pressure switch do not sit between the house line and the well pump for whatever reason. The pump line comes in and splits to the house, and a single pipe comes into my garage and connects to my pressure tank. Can the CSV simply be hooked up the same way as my existing system? thanks!
Thank you, Cary. One last question: based on what I've read, this operates under the assumption that the well pump can be 'deregulated' down to pump at a slower speed to match the water volume/pressure being used at the house (such as a single shower). Apologies as I'm new to all this, but can all well pumps do this? I just want to make sure that mine isn't 'all on/all of' pumping the same amount. Thanks.
The CSV does not change the speed of the pump/motor. It is simply a valve that reduces the flow from the pump to match the amount being used, such as a single shower. It would be very unusual for you to have a pump that would not work with a CSV. Basically only positive displacement pumps such as piston pump and helical shaft pumps will not work with a CSV, and those kinds of pumps are rarely used for well pumps.
Thank you Cary. I'll continue to browse the forums on your site for more information. I guess I'm just curious that if the well pump runs at the same speed and continues to produce the same amount of water when it is on, but I'm only using a shower (let's say 2.5gpm), the well pump will obviously be pushing up far more water than is being used. The CSV valve is reducing and only allowing 2.5gpm to pass to the house, where is all the extra water going that the well pump is pushing out? I am certain I am missing something, and apologize in advance.
There is no extra water. The CSV just turns the pump into a 2.5 GPM pump when all you are using is 2.5 GPM. It just makes the pump think it is in s deeper well so it can only pump 2.5 GPM. And that restriction is actually good for the pump as it will draw lower amps, use less power, and runs cooler.
Most relief valves are adjustable. Just take off the little cap an adjust the screw accordingly. I always set the relief about 15 PSI higher than the pressure switch shut off point. 40/60 switch, relief at 75 PSI . 65/85 switch setting, relief at 100 PSI.
You can get the PK1A kit from us for $345 and free shipping here. cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit That is much less than a large pressure tank and will do a better job than a room full of pressure tanks. As long as you get all the plumbing connections tight you won't get soaked. LOL
that means your pump will have to come on every time you turn the water on which will kill a pump .I had a 20 gallon pressure tank that killed my pump that is a 1 hp that is 400 ft in the ground after only 4 years .
I would try a cycle stop system if only I understood what to buy ...every time I have looked into it I come away too confused to make a decision. I just want a package with everything I need
There are lots of sizes of CSV's because there are lots of sizes of pumps. The CSV is sized to match the pump. You will need pump horse power and GPM series as well as pump setting and static water level to size a CSV. You can always call as we have over a century worth of pump experience in house and are glad to help. But most likely all you need is a PK1A kit, which comes with everything you need.
Keep the pump runing for every gallon of use is stupid with the on and off the pump won't last to long the capacitor and the pressure switch also the power it needs to start every gallon is gonna reflect on the bill.
It doesn't work that way Pablo. The pump will actually cycle less with a CSV and small tank than with a large pressure tank. This video only shows how to install a CSV. Maybe you need to watch this next video to figure out how it works. ruclips.net/video/LPIUufWjbic/видео.html
A high yield well is needed if you want to use water at high volume. But a CSV will work with a low yield well until you pump out all the water. The CSV also allows you to use as little as 1 GPM without cycling the pump, so it is actually what you need to be able to utilize what water is available in a low yield well. But if the well won't even make 1 GPM, you will need a storage tank and booster pump, and a CSV would go on the booster pump.
I cant see how this would make big pressure tanks obsolete with off grid, solar powered systems. The whole purpose of a big tank is so you dont have to run your pump at night, which depletes your battery banks very quickly with the pump kicking on and off, its not even the running of the pump that hurts, its the start ups, repeated start ups will leave ya in the dark fairly quickly.
The CSV is not really designed for off grid battery operated systems. However, it doesn't make much difference if your storage is a pressure tank or a couple extra batteries. Pressure tanks only hold about 25% of there volume as water, the rest is air. So you might be able to use less space adding a couple extra batteries instead of a large pressure tank.
Is there a better/more recent installation video? This video/audio/editing quality is poor and the camera is often too far away to actually see what’s going on. I found a couple more videos...but it’s mostly just a guy drawing explaining how it works...not an installation guide.
Sorry that is the best there is. The video was made by an old well driller/pump installer who invented the valve. You are lucky the video is as good a quality as it is. I am very good with pumps and systems but not so much with electronics and videos. lol The product is probably just a lot more simple than you think. Most people that want all these instructional videos change their mind when they see the product. The most used phrase is..."is that all there is to this? It can't be that simple." But it is. :)
Cycle Stop Valves Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. Doesn’t help at all...but I appreciate the response. This is part of my research which is how thousands of folks research new projects/products. If this really is the ‘the best there is’, you’re missing the mark. Just my honest feedback. Still not convinced...I’ll continue my research elsewhere.
@@BoydsCoveEst Most people say the amount of information on my web page is overwhelming. I am sorry you can't find what you want. But again, I am not sure you know what you are looking at.
the pump is going to run over and over again, 1 gallon is not enough water. why in earth do I want less water and keep running my pump for each gallon.
It doesn't work that way Pablo. The pump will actually cycle less with a CSV and small tank than with a large pressure tank. This video only shows how to install a CSV. Maybe you need to watch this next video to figure out how it works. ruclips.net/video/LPIUufWjbic/видео.html
You would think so but the opposite is true. Pumps are made to run 24/7/365. I have one that hasn't shut off in over 20 years so far. Submersible pumps are completely frictionless when running and have no wear. The bearing is dry and wears on start ups only. The more starts they have the sooner they are destroyed. It has nothing to do with the number of hours running. The way pumps work is counter intuitive, and the pump companies use your intuitive thinking against you to sell you more pumps. Pumps say "made for continuous duty" right on the label, and the will last longer if you never turn them off. Making pumps run longer or indefinitely is good for them, and restricting with a valve makes them run cooler and last longer. Once you understand this your pump will last longer and cost you less.
Наука
I had a 120 gallon galvanized tank replaced with a CVS and 35 gallon bladder tank. The system works great. I now have constant water pressure without the hammering and pump cycling. This is a great invention. Thanks for the information.
Have had my cvs1a valve for 3 years now works great no problems originally called the owner up had a great conversation what a gentleman and down to earth man, This should be in every home especially if you have your own well system like myself.
I found a well guy who has been in business over 20 years. He has a very good reputation in this area. He knew all about the CVS. He had some very good comments about the CVS. He is coming tomorrow to replace my 80 gallon galvanized tank and install a CVS with a 30 gallon tank. Thanks again.
Great video I'll be installing mine this week
Thanks for the video. This looks like the system I need. I have a large galvanized tank in a small room inside the laundry room. Last year I had my 1 hp submersible replaced with a 2 hp pump so I would have more water for irrigation. The problem I'm having now is the pump constantly cycles and the tank makes a loud noise when the pump shuts off. The well guy suggests I run more sprinklers to keep the pump from recycling. Now I running sprinklers that I don't need.
All my comments seem to have been removed. I don't know why. So I will just reply to everyone here.
Rodger, of course you need conduit and the correct connectors. This video is already 6 minutes long, and showing conduit would just take that much longer, Sorry.
B Adams, the CSV will eliminate the pump cycling, eliminate the water hammer noise on shut off, and you won’t have to run but one sprinkler at a time if you want.
Arshi khur, you don’t understand how the CSV works. Even with the little tank that only holds 1 gallon, the pump will continue to run for as long as you are using water. It doesn’t cycle for every gallon used.
Sissy Murphy, If you had a CSV in with that 20 gallon tank than only holds 5 gallons of water, that pump would still be working today. A pump will cycle itself to death with only a 20 gallon size tank, but not with a CSV attached.
Jon Mehlferber, we have documented pumps lasting as much as 400% longer when using a CSV. But the pumps we are studying are now only 22 years old and still working, so that number will get longer the longer CSV’s are in existence.
Eddie Kilby, you can use the CSV with any size tank. Capacitors are needed to make a pump system start, but have nothing to do with how long a pump last.
Cary - If I install the Pside-kick kit could I also put a larger bladder tank in the mix to further decrease the pump cycles. If I could increase the tank draw down to about 5 gallons instead of only the one gallon draw down with the kit tank, it seems that I could further reduce pump cycles. For instance, a low volume toilet flush would not cause a pump cycle. Am I thinking this through correctly and will a second tank work with the kit system>
carry, unless there is something I'm not taking into account, this system is still causing "short cycles ". depending on the psi settings on the switch the drawdown on a 119 gal is approx 34 gal. that means that you could fill seven-5gal buckets before the pump turns on. with this system the pump would turn on fifteen times for the same seven buckets. (if not despensed at one time). I am sure this will raise the utility bill and kill the pump. there is also the probability of introducing more solid matter (sand) into plumbing since there are more pump start ups.
You just keep thinking about it as you are getting close to figuring out how this works. The little 4.5 gallon size tank only holds 1 gallon of water. So the pump will have to come on anytime you use more than 1 gallon. But with the CSV attached the pump will never shut off as long as you are using more than 1 GPM. When you fill a 5 gallon bucket the CSV will make the pump stay on until the bucket is full, plus at least another 30 seconds to refill the little pressure tank. When you need 50 gallons to take a shower the CSV makes the pump stay on for as long as the shower is running, plus another 30 seconds to refill the pressure tank.
During that 30 seconds it takes to refill the little pressure tank, if you start filling another bucket, turn on another shower, or use water anywhere inside or outside the house, the pump just continues to run. It doesn't hurt a pump to come on every time you use water like to flush a toilet. I mean how many times a day will toilets be flushed anyway, 20, 30, maybe 50 times at most? And as long as you do a second flush within a minute of the last flush, the pump never shuts off. So you could stand there and flush the toilet 1000 times and the pump would only cycle on once for all of that.
Even starting a pump 50 times per day doesn't hurt the pump. It especially doesn't hurt the pump as much as 100-300 cycles per day like when running irrigation or a heat pump. The CSV takes all ALL the cycles for anything running for extended periods of time. This eliminates more cycles than you could ever put on the pump just filling 1 bucket or flushing 1 toilet at a time.
The most important thing is that the CSV does not let the pump shut off while you are using water. The pump only shuts off when no more water is being used. This gives the motor plenty of time to cool down before water is needed again. This is unlike a system without a CSV in that the pump cycles on and off continually WHILE you are using water. This means the pump comes on many times per day before it has had time to cool down, which is the worst thing you can do to a pump/motor.
With a CSV...
The pump does not use more electricity.
It does not cycle more.
Makes the pump system last longer.
Using a smaller tank saves money and space.
And you get strong constant pressure in the house instead of continuously varying pressure as with the old pressure tank only method.
How come it does not use more electricity if it stays on all the time you are using the water?
So the cycle stop valve make your pump run more steady. I can see that as a very
good thing Starting a motor cost more than running. But couldn't I use it with my 5 gallon pressure tank?
And do you think capacitors would prolong the life of my pump.
HI Richard
As we discussed on the phone because I didn't see this, in your case, as in most, there is no reason to have a tank any larger than the 4.5 gallon tank that comes with the Pside-Kick kit. Now if you were working pressures higher than 40/60, like 80/100, or if this system supplies more than 1 house, then a larger tank would be beneficial.
How do you know or how can you tell if a cycle stop valve is bad??? my pump runs an irrigation system and my pvc pipe broke right at the csv ????
If I use this CSV I would like my pressure to be as close to 50psi all the time, if possible. (Not dropping to 40psi then going back to 50psi.) Can the Pside-Kick be adjusted to stay at 50psi? If it can, how? Thanks
Seems like the biggest downfall of this kind of system is a complete lack of water during a power outage. Probably not even one flush. I still use an air-over-water tank and it always has many flushes left in it when the power goes off. Maybe 20 gallons or so. I would switch to bladder but bladder tanks seem to always be nearly empty when the power goes off.
That is about the only advantage to the old air over water tank systems. There are many other disadvantages for using an old hydro-pneumatic style tank that a bladder tank solves. If your greatest design characteristic is how much water you have when the power is off there are much better ways to accomplish this. An emergency generator is best. Battery operated pump is another good option. Even the old hand pump backup will work. If power going off is your biggest concern, what are you going to do when the power is off for a longer period of time? 20 gallons of low pressure drain from a hydro tank might last a few hours, but when an ice storm or something shuts the power down for longer, a better plan will be needed. A more dependable supply of power is your best option.
Ive had hydro-pneumatic tanks for 15 years and theve been nothing but trouble. The air volume control is always going bad from hard water mineral deposits and we get water logged quite often. I hate them. Ready for a whole new system and this seems like a winner
I bought one of these I hope it works as good as it is supposed to.
Please let us know what you think.
I have a 2003 Goulds 1/2hp shallow well jet pump hooked up to a 35 gallon storage barrel and a 55 gallon rain barrel. Because I have 2 sources to draw water from I have ball valves on the suction side so I can switch sources. Anyway I did a test where I restrict the pump using the suction side ball valve and the pump draws about 840W no matter how far I close down the valve. Does that mean a CSV will increase electricity usage?
Never restrict the suction and starve a pump for water. And no the CSV is on the discharge side of the pump and when restricting the discharge of a pump you can expect the amps to drop by 30-50%.
What no Romex connectors? I'm sure the local inspector would pass that install.
The CSV will hold the pressure steady at 50 PSI as long as you are using water. Only when you shut off all the faucets and are no longer using water will the CSV let the pressure build to 60 PSI so the pressure switch can shut the pump off. Then when you open a faucet next time the pressure will drop from 60 to 40 before the pressure switch starts the pump. Then the pressure will quickly climb to 50, where the CSV will hold it steady as long as you are using water. If you are always at 50 PSI, there is never any water goes into or out of the pressure tank. So the pump would start every time the faucet dripped one single drop. The 20 PSI bandwidth is so you can get some draw down out of the tank during times when the pump is off. Any time the pump is on, the CSV will hold 50 PSI forever as long as you are using water.
Now you can run the CSV at 60 and use a 50/70 pressure switch. Then you could put a pressure reducing valve on the discharge of the tank set at 50, and you would always have 50 PSI at the house, but the pump and pressure tank will be working from 50 to 70 to make that happen without the pump cycling itself to death.
But if you use the CSV with one of the 4.5 gallon size tanks as comes in the Pside-Kick kit, the tank only holds a gallon of water. That way the drop to 40 happens so fast you won't see it, then the pump is on and the CSV will hold steady 50 PSI as long as you are using water. The 40/60 bandwidth is to make use of the pressure tank, it has nothing to do with the steady 50 PSI the CSV will deliver.
does this run 220 or 110 current? I've scoured the web, but I can't find the answer.
@@KenJamesJr The CSV uses NO electricity.
If I understand this correctly --
this valve would not help a pump system much
if the system has a huge pressure tank and the water is run infrequently and only for short spurts ( running sink faucet for a few seconds to wash your hands, etc )
But for basically ANY other scenario
( more frequent use -or- longer duration use -or- small tank )
you would get the same water usage but with less frequent pump on/off cycling.
Is all this about right ?
Pretty close. And if you have any long duration uses of water, the CSV eliminates cycling enough to more than make up for any extra cycles during short term water uses.
Confused. Do the two pressure tanks in the video have the air bladders or are they just holding, no bladder, tanks? If they have no air bladders does this CSV help with systems using air bladder type pressure well tanks? It's my understanding the bladder tanks help to run the pump less. My tank is bad and it cycles about every 5 seconds when any water is being run. Since my air bladder went bad and filled up with water I have to replace it ASAP I'm told or my pump will go bad due to the rapid cycling. Now if I had a CSV valve that would sure help right now and cycle less, BUT with a good bladder pressure tank is this valve beneficial?
Yes the big tank being replaced and the little 4.5 gallon tank that comes with the Pside-Kick kit and CSV are both bladder tanks. If you are replacing an old bladder tank all you need is the Pside-Kick kit with the new 4.5 gallon size tank and CSV1A.
Hi Justin
Yes both tanks in the video are bladder or more correctly diaphragm tanks. With a CSV you still need a good tank, but it only needs to be the little 4.5 gallon size. Without a CSV the larger the bladder tank the slower the cycling, but it still cycles while using water. With a CSV the pump NEVER cycles while using water so a little pressure tank is all you need.
If I"m not mistaken this set up will still cause the pump to short cycle when someone just uses one gallon of water at a time. Like a toilet flush. Same as having a pressure tank, but a larger pressure tank would handle a toilet flush..What about adding a larger tank to this set up?
Average for a house pump without a CSV and a so called properly sized tank is about 30 cycles per day. Cycles per day with a CSV and the little 4.5 gallon size tank is still only 30 times per day. So for house only use any money spent on a larger tank is wasted money, that is a "negative". Now when you run a sprinkler in the yard, fill the swimming pool, or use water for any length of time like a long shower, the CSV causes only 1 cycle, where the large tank without a CSV would cycle the pump 100-300 times per day. But I understand your hesitation, as it has taken 25 years for me to understand all the positives of the CSV. You won't understand it until you try it. The CSV makes all the difference in the world.
@@cyclestopvalves8380...I love the idea of constant water pressure. While looking through the comments, one of the pluses you mentioned is how the system will constantly run instead of cycling hundreds of times during the use of sprinklers. I have a 1hp shallow well pump with a 62gl tank. Pressure set at 40/60 with a 17gl drawdown. When I turn my 8 zone, 4 head per zone sprinkler system on, the pump kicks on after the drawdown and doesn’t shut off until the last zone is finished and the well tank is refilled, why is that?
@@gman3918 Because your pump is sized perfectly for 4 heads at a time. If you try to run 1 or 3 heads at a time the pump will cycle like crazy. Designing the irrigation system to exactly match the output of the pump was the only way to prevent cycling in the past. But then the pump is using all the water for the sprinklers, and there is none left if someone wants to take a shower while the sprinklers are on. This means the sprinkler zones need to be run at off peak hours like 3AM. With a CSV you can match your sprinkler requirements to the yard and not the pump. So you can run 1, 2, or 3 sprinklers on zones that are not large enough for 4 sprinklers. When running 3 or less sprinklers on a zone the pump has plenty of water left and showers can be taken at any time. Then even if your sprinkler system can use 4 sprinklers on every zone, the CSV will still give strong constant pressure to the showers instead of cycling and varying the pressure up and down from 40 to 60 over and over. Just remember that if your zones are already set up to use all the water the pump can produce, adding a CSV will make the pressure a little lower on those large zones.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 The better way is to change the sprinkler nozzles to get the desired water consumption. They are rated in gpm. The pump would continue to run while leaving water available for the house.
@@trustme7731 Oh if it were only that easy. If the sprinklers are designed to use all the water the pump can produce to keep the pump from cycling on and off, where is anymore water going to come from when the house needs water? The pressure will get lower and lower the more water the house uses, and neither the people in the house nor the sprinklers will be happy with the trickle from the taps. But that was the best you could do 30 years ago before Cycle Stop Valves. Now it is easy to do better as simply adding a Cycle Stop Valve to a regular pressure tank/pump system will let you have your cake and eat it too. With a CSV not only will you be able to match the sprinkler zones to the yard instead of the demands of the pump, but sprinkler and shower pressure will so impressive you will no longer need soap in the shower. Lol!
Correct me if I am wrong, but an inverter controller operated via a processor does much the same thing? My inverter keeps the pump on as long as I have the taps on ...which is what you are saying the CSV does too? In fact would a CSV even work or add anything to my system? I have inverter type that makes 3phase variable frequency drive is what it is called ...when this system fails finally I might rather have more of a mechanical system but this is what came with the home ...little 2 or 4 gallon pressure tank btw...which is BAD which is why I am even looking for information!
You are exactly right. Cycle Stop Valves were designed to replace VFD's or Inverters. Instead of varying the speed, the CSV just makes the pump think it is in a deeper well, when lesser amounts of water are being used. Any pump can put out more water from a shallow well than from a deep well. The CSV just restricts the flow with a valve, simulating a deeper well, so the pump puts out less water when needed. A simple 50# spring pushes the valve open when the pressure is less than 50 PSI, and lets the valve close when there is more than 50 PSI. The hard part to understand is that these kinds of pumps use less energy when they are restricted with a valve, the same way they use less energy when slowed down with a complex computerized inverter. The constant pressure from an inverter (VFD) system is a good thing. However, a simple valve with a spring in the right place can do the exact same thing. Inverters are way cheaper and better than when I started replacing them with CSV's about 25 years ago, but they still have there problems. Once you've had constant pressure you can't go back. Switching from the inveter to a CSV just makes pump systems cost less, last longer, and be more reliable. Because nobody likes waking up to a house with no water.
aside from cost, would there be any bad effects of using a 50-60 gal tank with the CSV ?
A 50-60 gallon pressure tank only holds about 15 gallons of water. 15 gallons doesn't go very far in a house that uses 300-400 gallons per day. Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tank. All the tank is for is to reduce the Cycling on/off, and when you have a CSV to do that for you, the tank is almost a moot point.
So the only down side is that you will see pressure decreasing for 5 minutes into a 3 GPM shower before the pump comes on and the CSV starts delivering strong constant pressure. A larger tank won't hurt a thing except your pocket book. But some people tell me they learn to wait 5 minutes before getting in the shower so they don't have to wait for the good pressure, and that doesn't happen with a smaller tank.
My current pressure tank is leaking water from the air valve and sounds like its full of water so I probably need a new one. If I get a small tank and CSV, how much water will I have if I lose power (it usually happens a couple times a year)? Thx for the info!
Also, can I order the tank and CSV from you?
+Curtis Abod A 4.5 gallon size pressure tank holds 1 gallon of water. A 44 gallon size pressure tank only holds 12 gallons of water. But you shouldn't count on a pressure tank giving any water when the power goes off. It has to do with how much pressure is in the system when the power goes off. With a 40/60 pressure switch, the pressure would have to accidently be at 60 when the power goes off to have whatever the tank can hold. If the pressure is at 41 when the power goes off, as Murphy's law says it will be, then there is basically no water left in any size pressure tank.But the CSV will work with any size tank. And with a CSV you have a much better chance of the tank being full when the power goes off. This is because the way the CSV works, it will make sure you are finished using water before it fills the tank and the pump shuts off. Without a CSV the pump just goes on and off between 40 and 60 all the time. So there is a bigger chance that the tank will not be full when the power goes off. I keep a couple of 5 gallon jugs of water in a closet. That is the only real way to be sure you have some water when the power goes off.
Hey I like the idea. But I have a question. I have a 3/4 horse jet pump, will it work with it!
Sure the CSV works great with jet pumps. But you will need the pressure switch to sense after the CSV not before.
I asked a friend living in the usa to buy me a csv for my residenence in Jamaica. The problem is that I miss quoted the info. and is now stuck with a csv12550-3. My pump is 1/2 hp and I really needed a csv 12550-1 or the most a csv12550-2, the pressure switch is 1.5 bars/2.5 bars. Is there anyway to convert? I noticed a spring on the inside.
With a 1/2 HP jet pump the -3 is still OK. With the low differential pressure of a jet pump you really need the -3 to get 1 GPM minimum anyway. With a 1/2HP submersible you would need the -1.
my well-pump went down last month. Got 80 g tank already installed. Can I still use this Cycle Stop Valve on this big tank?
The CSV will work with any size tank. You just need to set the CSV at 57 when using a 40/60 switch so it only takes a couple minutes to fill the tank after all the faucets are turned off. When the time comes that you need a new tank, a 4.5 or 10 gallon size is all you need.
How much longer would you expect a submersible (in well) pump to last using this system vs. a typical pressure tank with bladder? No problem using this system along with an array of backwashing filters (for iron, etc.) and water softener? Thanks.
My pump is pumping 1,000 feet from a spring at the bottom of the hill, what would you recommend for this set up?
The PK1A is still all you need to control the pump. You may need the 10 gallon size tank so you can turn the pressure up, as you need enough pressure to make up for the 1,000' of friction loss and the elevation height.
Cycle Stop Valves Thank you! This a new developed spring and of course I was going to buy an 85 gallon or larger pressure tank to operate the house from, but I think I’m going to install your valve and try that before I buy a big tank that may end up being a waste of money.
can this be used without eliminating the large pressure tank. my understanding has always been short cycles are pump killers and surge start up consume much more electricity.
Sure you can use a CSV with any size tank. But larger tanks are just wasting your money. Since the CSV makes the water go right past the tank straight to the faucet, it doesn't matter if it is a 1 gallon or a million gallon size tank. Plus the larger the tank the longer you have to wait to see the strong constant pressure from the CSV. But at least once the big tank is empty and the pump starts you will finally see the strong constant pressure from the CSV. Even an 80 gallon size pressure tank only holds 20 gallons of water. Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tank. All the pressure tank was ever designed to do was reduce the cycling. And when you have a CSV to do that for you, a large tank is no longer needed. But a CSV works fine with a large tank and doing so won't hurt anything expect for your pocketbook and loss of space.
If the pump is cycling on and off while you are using water the CSV is not working. I would guess the ditch settled and broke the pipe as is usually the case.
If space for a large tank is not a problem, and initial draw-down change in pressure from 60 to 40 psi is not a problem, it seems to me it would be better for the pump to have a large tank AND a Cycle Stop Valve, so that small intermittent water uses do not cycle the pump as often. Let's say it's very normal to use less than 2 gallons of water at a time; like a toilet flush or filling a cooking pot. With that small tank, every time I use 1-2 gallons the pump will turn on to refill the tank. But if I have a large pressure tank (say 80 gal, 20 gal usable between 60-40psi) then I could flush do 10 small water usages before the pump cycles on. With a small tank, the pump is more likely to cycle on for every water use, whether large or small, but with a large tank, the pump will only cycle on every time for every large water use, like bath/shower, and will only cycle on maybe every 10 times for small water usages, like filling a pot of water. Am I wrong here? I just don't understand why replace a large tank with a small tank, when installing csv. It seems a large tank + csv is the best solution foe someone with the space who doesn't mind the initial draw-down from 60-40psi.
You are correct. However, after 28 years of doing this we realize the big tank is a waste of money, space, and even makes the pressure worse. The CSV takes out so many cycles for long term uses like showers and sprinklers, you really can't add back enough cycles by flushing toilets with the small tank to hurt anything. Sure the big tank might save 10 cycles per day compared to the small tank when used just for the house. But the CSV is saving hundreds of cycles for showers and sprinklers, so 10 cycles a day for toilets is nothing. In 28 years I have answered the same questions several thousand times. So, I can tell you what will happen. You will like the strong constant pressure from the CSV so much you will learn to hate waiting on the 20 gallons in an 80 gallon tank to be used. While you are using the 20 gallons from the tank the pressure will be dropping from 60 all the way to 40, and will hover at 41 for a long time. Once the tank is empty and the pump starts, the CSV will maintain a constant 50-55 PSI for the rest of the shower, even if you shower for a month. Some tell me they just wait for the tank to empty and the pressure to get strong before they even get in the shower. Others call me wanting to decrease the pressure switch bandwidth from 40/60 to 50/60 or even 55/60. A 55/60 pressure switch setting on a 80 gallon tank is the same as having a 20 gallon tank. When they finally switch out the big tank for the small tank, all their pressure problems and wasting water until the big tank is empty goes away. I know it is counter intuitive, but pumps are counter intuitive. Go ahead and add a CSV to y our big tank system, as it will work fine. But once you see how the CSV works you will realize the big tank is a waste and a nuisance.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 This response is EXCELLENT! Thanks for taking the time to clear this up by explaining your experience and understanding so fully and plainly that it really makes sense. I am building a pressure tank system on my new well (500ft), with a 1hp Grundfos two-wire smooth-start deep well pump (8gpm), running on a small off-grid solar setup, which will be used very infrequently for an RV, light gardening, and the occasional tractor washing for the next three years, until we build our home and hook up to the grid, to then use the well like a more traditional household. For the first three years, I care little about constant pressure but a lot about power usage, and after three years I will care a lot about constant pressure and very little about power usage.
Whatcha think? And thanks again for really good info! (I also have read your forum posts, about CSV being similar to pressure valve, but all the work engineering the half-moon hole, etc.... I think you are right to defend your work the way you do.)
@@Gruuvin1 Thanks! To be such a simple valve the CSV has a complicated explanation. With solar power you need to store energy to use water when the sun is not shining. You can use the CSV with a small tank and get an extra battery. Or you can use a big tank without a CSV and store water instead of KWs. However, with a big pressure tank you need to make sure it is pumped full before the sun sets, and then the 20 gallons from an 80 gallon pressure tank is all you have. Whereas with an extra battery topped off, you have as much water as you want during the night or cloudy days.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 another question, if you don't mind. Why not make this from brass instead of nickel?
@@Gruuvin1 Brass was great for hundreds of years. But after the lead fiasco in Flint, the government wanted to pass the blame on to the lead in the pipes, which was never a problem, instead of blaming the idiot government officials who opened up the acidic water supply from the river and caused the problem to start with. After that, real brass was made illegal because it has lead in it. Lead is a very important part of the brass recipe. Without lead, it is mostly copper, and just flakes off green chunks like the Statue of Liberty. We tried the low lead brass and it sucked badly. So, the CSV1A is made of 304SS, not Nickle, but it may look like Nickle. You can thank your government for making the old long lasting brass illegal, while shortening the life and more than tripling the cost of all plumbing products.
So I'm thinking about adding the CSV to my existing 81 gallon pressure tank, or getting rid of it and using your small tank. My pressure tank and pressure switch do not sit between the house line and the well pump for whatever reason. The pump line comes in and splits to the house, and a single pipe comes into my garage and connects to my pressure tank. Can the CSV simply be hooked up the same way as my existing system? thanks!
Yes the CSV just needs to be installed before that line tees off to the house and tank.
Thank you, Cary. One last question: based on what I've read, this operates under the assumption that the well pump can be 'deregulated' down to pump at a slower speed to match the water volume/pressure being used at the house (such as a single shower). Apologies as I'm new to all this, but can all well pumps do this? I just want to make sure that mine isn't 'all on/all of' pumping the same amount. Thanks.
The CSV does not change the speed of the pump/motor. It is simply a valve that reduces the flow from the pump to match the amount being used, such as a single shower. It would be very unusual for you to have a pump that would not work with a CSV. Basically only positive displacement pumps such as piston pump and helical shaft pumps will not work with a CSV, and those kinds of pumps are rarely used for well pumps.
Thank you Cary. I'll continue to browse the forums on your site for more information. I guess I'm just curious that if the well pump runs at the same speed and continues to produce the same amount of water when it is on, but I'm only using a shower (let's say 2.5gpm), the well pump will obviously be pushing up far more water than is being used. The CSV valve is reducing and only allowing 2.5gpm to pass to the house, where is all the extra water going that the well pump is pushing out? I am certain I am missing something, and apologize in advance.
There is no extra water. The CSV just turns the pump into a 2.5 GPM pump when all you are using is 2.5 GPM. It just makes the pump think it is in s deeper well so it can only pump 2.5 GPM. And that restriction is actually good for the pump as it will draw lower amps, use less power, and runs cooler.
The relieve valve should be rated for 100psi?
Most relief valves are adjustable. Just take off the little cap an adjust the screw accordingly. I always set the relief about 15 PSI higher than the pressure switch shut off point. 40/60 switch, relief at 75 PSI . 65/85 switch setting, relief at 100 PSI.
where can I get this setup, and will I be soaked for it?
You can get the PK1A kit from us for $345 and free shipping here. cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit That is much less than a large pressure tank and will do a better job than a room full of pressure tanks. As long as you get all the plumbing connections tight you won't get soaked. LOL
great link there is nothing there it is a dead link
Nothing there but the actual website
that means your pump will have to come on every time you turn the water on which will kill a pump .I had a 20 gallon pressure tank that killed my pump that is a 1 hp that is 400 ft in the ground after only 4 years .
I would try a cycle stop system if only I understood what to buy ...every time I have looked into it I come away too confused to make a decision. I just want a package with everything I need
There are lots of sizes of CSV's because there are lots of sizes of pumps. The CSV is sized to match the pump. You will need pump horse power and GPM series as well as pump setting and static water level to size a CSV. You can always call as we have over a century worth of pump experience in house and are glad to help. But most likely all you need is a PK1A kit, which comes with everything you need.
Keep the pump runing for every gallon of use is stupid with the on and off the pump won't last to long the capacitor and the pressure switch also the power it needs to start every gallon is gonna reflect on the bill.
It doesn't work that way Pablo. The pump will actually cycle less with a CSV and small tank than with a large pressure tank. This video only shows how to install a CSV. Maybe you need to watch this next video to figure out how it works.
ruclips.net/video/LPIUufWjbic/видео.html
This system only works with high yield wells in my experienrce
A high yield well is needed if you want to use water at high volume. But a CSV will work with a low yield well until you pump out all the water. The CSV also allows you to use as little as 1 GPM without cycling the pump, so it is actually what you need to be able to utilize what water is available in a low yield well. But if the well won't even make 1 GPM, you will need a storage tank and booster pump, and a CSV would go on the booster pump.
how do I get one of these. And how much r they..
The PK1A kit in this video is $365.00. You can get one here. Thanks. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick
I cant see how this would make big pressure tanks obsolete with off grid, solar powered systems. The whole purpose of a big tank is so you dont have to run your pump at night, which depletes your battery banks very quickly with the pump kicking on and off, its not even the running of the pump that hurts, its the start ups, repeated start ups will leave ya in the dark fairly quickly.
The CSV is not really designed for off grid battery operated systems. However, it doesn't make much difference if your storage is a pressure tank or a couple extra batteries. Pressure tanks only hold about 25% of there volume as water, the rest is air. So you might be able to use less space adding a couple extra batteries instead of a large pressure tank.
Is there a better/more recent installation video? This video/audio/editing quality is poor and the camera is often too far away to actually see what’s going on. I found a couple more videos...but it’s mostly just a guy drawing explaining how it works...not an installation guide.
Sorry that is the best there is. The video was made by an old well driller/pump installer who invented the valve. You are lucky the video is as good a quality as it is. I am very good with pumps and systems but not so much with electronics and videos. lol The product is probably just a lot more simple than you think. Most people that want all these instructional videos change their mind when they see the product. The most used phrase is..."is that all there is to this? It can't be that simple." But it is. :)
Cycle Stop Valves Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. Doesn’t help at all...but I appreciate the response. This is part of my research which is how thousands of folks research new projects/products. If this really is the ‘the best there is’, you’re missing the mark. Just my honest feedback. Still not convinced...I’ll continue my research elsewhere.
@@BoydsCoveEst Most people say the amount of information on my web page is overwhelming. I am sorry you can't find what you want. But again, I am not sure you know what you are looking at.
the pump is going to run over and over again, 1 gallon is not enough water. why in earth do I want less water and keep running my pump for each gallon.
oh ok I will watch the video again and do more research. thx
It doesn't work that way Pablo. The pump will actually cycle less with a CSV and small tank than with a large pressure tank. This video only shows how to install a CSV. Maybe you need to watch this next video to figure out how it works.
ruclips.net/video/LPIUufWjbic/видео.html
Yes , but now you’re making the pump
Work more often , your pump
Will die sooner .
You would think so but the opposite is true. Pumps are made to run 24/7/365. I have one that hasn't shut off in over 20 years so far. Submersible pumps are completely frictionless when running and have no wear. The bearing is dry and wears on start ups only. The more starts they have the sooner they are destroyed. It has nothing to do with the number of hours running. The way pumps work is counter intuitive, and the pump companies use your intuitive thinking against you to sell you more pumps. Pumps say "made for continuous duty" right on the label, and the will last longer if you never turn them off. Making pumps run longer or indefinitely is good for them, and restricting with a valve makes them run cooler and last longer. Once you understand this your pump will last longer and cost you less.