They ran harder on grounders in those old ASGs than they do in the regular season now. They also blocked the plate, took out middle‐infielders on doubleplays, and played extra innings. Pre-90s ASGs were played fiercely competitively for league pride.
@@Sloppypig1354 Not true. Sutton, Seaver, Jenkins, Gibson, Perry, Carlton, and all of the other greats of his era lost a lot of 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 games. Ryan had a so-so record even in seasons when his team won their division.
@@kingcassius2586 ERA tells it all the Angels stunk back then go look up history of there runs scored his ERA is telling u the amount of runs he gave up on average per game. So your telling me the 2-1 or 1-0 games he lost is his fault what more do u want him to do throw a shut out every game.
@Sloppypig1354 Who says I hate him? It's very telling when "not worshipping someone" defaults to "hating them." The Angels led MLB in scoring in '79. Ryan was 16-14. 6-3, 16-14, 11-10, 12-8 were his records for all the division winners he played on. How good were the teams that Gaylord Perry played on? What about Carlton in '72? I never said he should throw a shutout every start. Just pointing out that having your team not scoring a bunch for you was hardly exclusive to Ryan. No starting pitcher from the 70s was guaranteed a lot of run support.
love how his stats at the all star break would mean a full season's worth today and probably be worth a cy young award.....which Nolan famously never won
@walkoffstudios 73 was a toss up too. Ryan lost it to Jim Palmer who had a better record and era, but Ryan had more than double the K's. I say that as as a fan of Palmer and the Orioles. Ryan still seems a bit bitter about that one in his documentary.
Also one year with Houston he should have won. Can't remember if it was 81 or 87, but he led the league in ERA, Strikeouts, K/9, H/9, ERA+ but his record was 8-16 and voters then based their decisions largely on the pitchers record.
I found a story from 1975 where Billy Martin tried to prank Ryan by leaving a rubber crab and snake on the mound, but that's all I was able to come up with www.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/angels-history-nolan-ryan-and-the-rubber-snake
If memory serves, Pedro was in a similar situation. That is, he was added when another pitcher who was originally selected had to back out. I recall being sympathetic and saying that he should tell MLB, "I made plans because you didn't think I deserved it, so screw you and your 2.5 Nielsen rating against reruns and summer replacements."
Dave LaRoache, if memory serves me, was a lefty, and good eft-handed pitchers were a bit more rare in those days, plus Billy's substance issues were becoming more prevalent..
Everyone was wrong in this situation. Ryan should have been picked originally, and Ryan also shouldn't have sat out just because he felt slighted. I say this as a lifelong Yankee fan who feels that Martin would have made the HOF if not for his personal demons. And as a lifelong fan of Nolan Ryan, my favorite non Yankee player ever. The ASG is for the fans, and I feel that unless you're injured, or had just pitched... You should play in the game. The best revenge he could have gotten on Martin is going out and dominating the NL All Stars and making Martin look silly for not having Ryan on the initial roster. Instead, he cost the fans the opportunity to see him face the greats of the NL.
In this video are you claiming that Billy Martin had an ulterior motive leaving Nolan Ryan out? I don’t see it that way. The best argument you made is the 5 Yankee players and the 7 Red Sox players. Though you can easily assume from that is that Martin favored Yankee and Red Sox players rather than disfavored Ryan. Your other two arguments have plausible defenses. Martin picked Dave LaRoche over Ryan since he needed a reliever and already had Frank Tanana. And Tanana was having a better year than Ryan in 1977. If Martin still didn’t add Ryan after Tanana’s injury, then an ulterior motive would be a very fair claim. But I don’t see it.
Tanana wasn't better than Ryan in the first half of 77. He had a slight edge in ERA and a decent lead in WHIP but Ryan leads in just about every other statistic. Wins, win pct, K, K/9, H/9, ERA+ At best, I would say Tanana was AS good as Ryan over that stretch.
It was removed for time, but I originally wanted to mention how Vida Blue was one of Martin's first choices, despite Ryan having better stats everywhere. There was no reason given why Blue was picked over Ryan.
@@walkoffstudios That’s a fair point. One thing we do know about Billy Martin is he was a baseball strategist and probably relied on more than just stats when picking out his all star lineup. Probably more than your average MLB manager would. I’m sure Martin had his reasons why Nolan Ryan wasn’t his first choice, right or wrong.
@@snerdterguson That’s not entirely true. Ryan did have one win over Tanana, but Ryan’s 13-8 compared to Tanana’s 12-6 gives Tanana the slight edge in winning percentage. And while Tanana’s 2.15 ERA compared to Ryan’s 2.64 is not a big lead, it’s still more than a slight edge in my opinion. Obviously Ryan had more strikeouts, but the previous stats matter more. I’m not sure where WAR and ERA+ stand in the first half of the year, but I do know that Tanana led the league in both those stats at the end of 1977. Bottom line is you can argue that Tanana was having a better season than Ryan in the first half even if the margin was close.
Realistically Ryan's not the greatest pitcher ever and more like Top 20 which pains me to say since he's my All-time favorite bar none. Holding the record for most career walks definitely prevents him from being the GOAT. But he was freak of nature and seemed to get better as he aged. A cultural and sports icon and was surely a household name likely known throughout the world. There will never be another pitcher like him.
It’s interesting that Sparky wasn’t as outspoken about Gibby declining the ASG.
The All-Star game is classified as an exhibition game anyways so really didn't count for much back then
They ran harder on grounders in those old ASGs than they do in the regular season now. They also blocked the plate, took out middle‐infielders on doubleplays, and played extra innings.
Pre-90s ASGs were played fiercely competitively for league pride.
Just an FYI: Billy MarTin has a “T” in the middle of his last name. It’s not “Mar’in.”
Should of put both of them in the ring. I'll put my money on Ryan.
His ERA was great but his teams never scored any runs for him. 8 seasons he had under 3 ERA but his record was like 125-100 his teams had no offense.
@@Sloppypig1354 Not true. Sutton, Seaver, Jenkins, Gibson, Perry, Carlton, and all of the other greats of his era lost a lot of 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 games. Ryan had a so-so record even in seasons when his team won their division.
@@kingcassius2586 ERA tells it all the Angels stunk back then go look up history of there runs scored his ERA is telling u the amount of runs he gave up on average per game. So your telling me the 2-1 or 1-0 games he lost is his fault what more do u want him to do throw a shut out every game.
@@kingcassius2586 7 no hitters 12 one hitters 18 two hitters strikeout king come on u must hate him for some reason. Woooow
@Sloppypig1354 Who says I hate him? It's very telling when "not worshipping someone" defaults to "hating them."
The Angels led MLB in scoring in '79. Ryan was 16-14. 6-3, 16-14, 11-10, 12-8 were his records for all the division winners he played on. How good were the teams that Gaylord Perry played on? What about Carlton in '72?
I never said he should throw a shutout every start. Just pointing out that having your team not scoring a bunch for you was hardly exclusive to Ryan. No starting pitcher from the 70s was guaranteed a lot of run support.
@@kingcassius2586 The angels scored 1 run in 60 of his losses what more can I say.
love how his stats at the all star break would mean a full season's worth today and probably be worth a cy young award.....which Nolan famously never won
He should have won it in 1977. Instead it went to Sparky Lyle.
@walkoffstudios 73 was a toss up too. Ryan lost it to Jim Palmer who had a better record and era, but Ryan had more than double the K's. I say that as as a fan of Palmer and the Orioles.
Ryan still seems a bit bitter about that one in his documentary.
Also one year with Houston he should have won. Can't remember if it was 81 or 87, but he led the league in ERA, Strikeouts, K/9, H/9, ERA+ but his record was 8-16 and voters then based their decisions largely on the pitchers record.
@@provincialfishBert Blyleven should have won in 1973
@@snerdtergusonand it was 87. That was the one time he definitely should have won
Billy Martin brought the Yankees more embarrassment than glory.
Billy probably didn't let Nolan Ryan pitch because of some past altercation between the two⚾️
I found a story from 1975 where Billy Martin tried to prank Ryan by leaving a rubber crab and snake on the mound, but that's all I was able to come up with
www.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/angels-history-nolan-ryan-and-the-rubber-snake
If memory serves, Pedro was in a similar situation. That is, he was added when another pitcher who was originally selected had to back out. I recall being sympathetic and saying that he should tell MLB, "I made plans because you didn't think I deserved it, so screw you and your 2.5 Nielsen rating against reruns and summer replacements."
I stand with Ryan on this.
Well, it won’t happen this year.
Billy Martin should keep his big mouth shut.
Dave LaRoache, if memory serves me, was a lefty, and good eft-handed pitchers were a bit more rare in those days, plus Billy's substance issues were becoming more prevalent..
I understand why he sat out. The big ol' Texan was butthurt. I'll bet Martin even refused to kiss it to make it all better.
Billy was a dirtbag
I keep finding these videos because they cover the most intriguing topics and each time i gotta sit through that annoying voice
Everyone was wrong in this situation. Ryan should have been picked originally, and Ryan also shouldn't have sat out just because he felt slighted.
I say this as a lifelong Yankee fan who feels that Martin would have made the HOF if not for his personal demons. And as a lifelong fan of Nolan Ryan, my favorite non Yankee player ever.
The ASG is for the fans, and I feel that unless you're injured, or had just pitched... You should play in the game.
The best revenge he could have gotten on Martin is going out and dominating the NL All Stars and making Martin look silly for not having Ryan on the initial roster. Instead, he cost the fans the opportunity to see him face the greats of the NL.
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In this video are you claiming that Billy Martin had an ulterior motive leaving Nolan Ryan out? I don’t see it that way. The best argument you made is the 5 Yankee players and the 7 Red Sox players. Though you can easily assume from that is that Martin favored Yankee and Red Sox players rather than disfavored Ryan. Your other two arguments have plausible defenses. Martin picked Dave LaRoche over Ryan since he needed a reliever and already had Frank Tanana. And Tanana was having a better year than Ryan in 1977. If Martin still didn’t add Ryan after Tanana’s injury, then an ulterior motive would be a very fair claim. But I don’t see it.
Tanana wasn't better than Ryan in the first half of 77. He had a slight edge in ERA and a decent lead in WHIP but Ryan leads in just about every other statistic. Wins, win pct, K, K/9, H/9, ERA+
At best, I would say Tanana was AS good as Ryan over that stretch.
It was removed for time, but I originally wanted to mention how Vida Blue was one of Martin's first choices, despite Ryan having better stats everywhere. There was no reason given why Blue was picked over Ryan.
@@walkoffstudios That’s a fair point. One thing we do know about Billy Martin is he was a baseball strategist and probably relied on more than just stats when picking out his all star lineup. Probably more than your average MLB manager would. I’m sure Martin had his reasons why Nolan Ryan wasn’t his first choice, right or wrong.
@@snerdterguson That’s not entirely true. Ryan did have one win over Tanana, but Ryan’s 13-8 compared to Tanana’s 12-6 gives Tanana the slight edge in winning percentage. And while Tanana’s 2.15 ERA compared to Ryan’s 2.64 is not a big lead, it’s still more than a slight edge in my opinion. Obviously Ryan had more strikeouts, but the previous stats matter more. I’m not sure where WAR and ERA+ stand in the first half of the year, but I do know that Tanana led the league in both those stats at the end of 1977. Bottom line is you can argue that Tanana was having a better season than Ryan in the first half even if the margin was close.
Realistically Ryan's not the greatest pitcher ever and more like Top 20 which pains me to say since he's my All-time favorite bar none. Holding the record for most career walks definitely prevents him from being the GOAT. But he was freak of nature and seemed to get better as he aged. A cultural and sports icon and was surely a household name likely known throughout the world. There will never be another pitcher like him.
Billy was one of the worst clowns in Major League baseball history.... The slightest bit of credit is far more than the man should ever be afforded
He was a GREAT manager, who had substance and anger issues.
I respect Ryan even more now. Martin was a childish idiot.