Druid/Monk Multiclass 2022 - Technically Dense (D&D 5e)
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2022
- Due to being, hopefully, better at our jobs than when we first started 3 and a half years ago, and all the changes to 5th edition since then we're taking a fresh look at some of our old multi class breakdowns! This episode we're taking a second look at Druid/Monk. We found a couple of niche builds last go around but now with all the new subclasses and options is there more here?
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My favorite subclass combo here was similar to what Jarred ended with but a smidge of flavor traded for more mechanical mixups, Way of Mercy + Circle of Stars. I played it at level 8 so 2 druid/6 monk.
The general idea was it would be impossible to ever have a turn you don't utilize every single action/bonus action you have in different ways and adapt toe very situation while maintaining the Heal and Harm balance from Mercy. While Ellie is definitely right that it's a bit Ki heavy, Druid helps alleviate it a lot. Chalice means any spell slot healing you deal is even better for keeping a few people going. Healing word becomes 1d4+wis and 1d8 + wis to potentially two different creatures and you still have your action to punch with. Slap on Archer if you're zipping between every end of the battlefield so that if you spend 40 movment to get to the mage, you can still snipe the Frontline enemy 65 feet away. Physicians touch means you don't care as much about the higher level healing spells since you got condition clearing there and being able to slap poisoned nearly at will is really brutal so you can ignore a Frontline enemy for a turn. Abuse those low level great spells like Absorb Elements, Healing Word and even sometimes Cure Wounds. And you refresh immensely well on Short Rests.
It does require a lot of planning to balance Ki, spell use, wild shape use and movement but I found it handled basically any situation with impressive results. Never did the best of anything, but I definitely covered multiple roles and really felt like it was an ebb and flow of life and death nonstop
I am currently playing a Star Druid 17/Mercy Monk 3 and its actually a fantastic beast (heh) of a support. With the tough feat I have the second most HP in the party and a 22 AC (with Bracers of Defense) meaning I can survive on the front line to diceminate a frankly stupid amount of healing on top of being a full 17th level full caster. With just 1 first lvl spell I can do 1d4+3d8+18 and if I add Aura of Vitality to that I can add 2d6+1d4 on top of that for an average of 42 points of healing *per round* for one 1st level spell and one 3rd that lasts for a minute and with the warcaster feat and/or dragon constelation I am virtually impossible to break out of concentration.
:D Tis very fun. also skip Aura of Vitality for shapechange and that math gets *exponentially* bigger
My first D&D character was a Druid/ Way of Four elements Monk multiclass in lvl. 10 one-shot. I had no idea what I was doing, and the character was probably very unoptimized but I had a lot of fun cause I felt like my character met the favor of playing as the Avatar that I wanted. Idk if I would try to remake or reimagine the character again cause this multi-class is very intense lol.
Mercy monk in wild shape gets you healing paws. That should give you paws to think right. (attempt at a bad pun)
Also in Chinese philosophies (Taoism, Buddhism,etc) there are 5 elements; fire, earth, metal, water, and wood. Wind is often an evil or a pathogen, not an element.
9 Drunken Master/ 11 Moon Druid.
Dwarven Fortitude & Patient Defense OR Soul of the Storm Giant, all while holding onto Enlarge/Reduce. Redirect attacks up to 20 feet away as a Huge Elemental. Or go on the offense. You got Elemental Hit Die to use.
With spelljammer, we can now have hippy spore Druid/Monk on the astral sea, but now in SPAAAAAAACCCEE!!!!!
I'm playing an thri-kreen circle of spores druid/way of the Astral self monk and omg its been very interesting
@@darkorochimaru666 so many arms
One of the most anger inducing (will also never be legal at any table) RAW exploits I've seen is a Monk Druid Tabaxi Beast Barbarian who wildshapes into the Moorbounder from the Wildemount book, which is CR 1, movement 70, claw attack 4d4 + 4. Rules as written, the Tabaxi's Cat's Claws ability means that claw attacks (does not specify which claws) count as unarmed strikes. The commas in the second sentence divide it into separate sections, in which neither are dependent. Which just means that you add the damage and remove bludgeoning if any. The last clause is dependent on the second one, but that one isn’t dependent on the last one, therefore it can exist on its own.
I.E., you are a 70 speed monk whose normal attack does 4d4 + 4 which can be used in conjunction with things like flurry of blows or the bonus action additional attack.
I don't think there's any DM that would let this fly, but while we're talking about examples of why DM's shouldn't always do RAW, the Moorbounder has a strength of 18 and dex of 14 which means if your base wisdom is 13 or higher while wildshaped when you level up you meet the prerequisites to multiclass into barbarian and then eventually go down Beast Barbarian to get another claw feature that doesn't specify which claws it works with.
longform explanation and math: docs.google.com/document/d/15Lg2QmQuCHM5s9NoSPg6eiBygO-HaLcPYqMr00KrYJQ/edit
My gosh what a mess hahah. I love hearing about this stuff
Relying on tearing things out of context and rules-lawyering a parenthetical relative clause to apply to all natural weapons is some next-level munchkin acrobatics. I think you're right that this interpretation would not be accepted at most tables.
@Get Real Except Wild Shape lets you retain any features from your race, class, or other sources that the new form is physically capable of using. So RAW, you are capable of using claws. In any case, this loophole will be fixed by Monsters of the Multiverse, which removes the stipulation that racial natural weapons can be used for unarmed attacks across the board.
@@MonstersMulticlass Can you guys do Murgrik from Tome of Beasts 2? Basically immagine Beholder dreaming about alligator after snorting cocaine.
I disagree that this is RAW. The cat's claw feature (both in Volo's and Monsters of the Multiverse) states that if (or "when" in MotM) you hit with your claws, you deal 1d4 (or 1d6 in MotM). You can't choose to take one benefit of the feature (claw attacks count as unarmed strikes) without taking the corresponding restriction from the feature (your claw attacks deal 1d4 or 1d6 on a hit).
I realize that's not your point. The point is that a DM should adjudicate with a healthy mix of RAW, RAI, and RAF. I personally find that the best way to satisfy "Rules as Fun" is to allow the player to use this kind of silly rules abuse once, and then make it clear that it won't work a second time. The point is to reward creativity. Coming up with a game-breaking combo is creative, but using that same combo over and over ceases to be creative.
Something to remember about the Karate Bear from the original episode: unarmed attacks are not limited to humanoids. You can maul as a bear and just choose to make it an unarmed strike (dealing the Martial Arts damage instead of 2d6), so you don't *need* Astral Self to make unarmed attacks in Wild Shape.
One interaction I like (which might have been in the original, I don't remember), is Open Hand and Spike Growth. Just use your insane movement to run around the spikes and knock everyone into them with Flurry of Blows.
We mention that! I think Ellie got herself confused for a moment but we clarified that you can do it regardless.
Open hand and spike growth is such a good idea. Not sure if that was in the original either but that's a really good interaction and honestly works well for stuff like moon beam. Stunning Strike is actually perfect for this stuff
@@MonstersMulticlass Yeah, I noticed when we got around to it at the end of the video. I have a bad habit of thinking you're done talking about something when you move on to something else 😉
@@MonstersMulticlass And yeah, Moon Beam with Stunning Strike is great, especially because of the versatility of the movement from Open Hand Technique: *up to* 15 feet away. So anyone withon 15 feet of that beam can get pushed in and possibly stunned to remain inside. The setup is slightly slower, but you can always pop it on top of someone and then Patient Defense until it gets around to your turn.
SS is less important with Spike Growth because you actually *want* them to move on their turn.
Honestly if you're still assuming we're gonna have a linear conversation you're not keeping up ;)
Something I love about this channel is that it often teases out combos that work really well with two different characters. (Like combining AOE DOT spells with abilities that restrict enemy movement. Love to see the Barbarian grappling an enemy and holding them against the rim of a Sickening Radiance spell.) It sounds odd to say, but party teamwork in combat is seriously underrated in the theorycraft/optimizer community.
I may have heard them wrong, but I noticed that when they were talking about using your martial arts stuff you can't do it unless you use an "unarmed strike or monk weapon attack" which is true. However, Flurry of Blows simply states, that after taking the Attack Action, you can spend a ki point to make 2 unarmed strikes...so Kung fu panda works with...any monk subclass in that respect. It doesn't have to be just the Astral Self. Although I do think that you gain the most from Astral Self if you are looking for a small dip into monk. Circle of the Moon and Drunken Master might not be bad then, as you gain stuff with your flurry of blows, that you can use in wildshape, without spending more ki points. So minimum of 3 attacks and disengage, plus 10 feet of movement? Stellar! Combine that with the pack tactics of the Dire Wolf that has you unarmored AC and unarmored movement? Even better. Still has limited use with ki points, but that us the monk multiclass dilemma. There is also the Exploring Eberron Monk, Way of the Living Weapon, which seems very interesting and could also be thematic and fun with Circle of the Moon. Particularly the Weretouched ability, where you could potentially flavor your unarmed attacks as claw attacks. Unfortunately that sucks up your ki very quickly as well. But it also buffs your martial arts die by a level. So at 5th level monk, your martial arts die is a d8 instead of a d6.
I always love that one person who's like "Unarmed Strikes are just punches, right?"
It's just hitting someone with your body. Doesn't even require open hands o.o
Hit em with your pony tail
@@MonstersMulticlass''Hit em with your pony tail'', as a horse or the hair bound thats hanging from your head?
I won’t claim to have made these choices for rules or mechanics at all. But narratively, it all makes sense: high elf circle of the stars Druid multi classed with monk of the cobalt soul (CR Exandria campaign). Just hit level 3 and so haven’t had a chance to play with the monk abilities much yet. The guiding bolt is super effective at the low levels and the starry forms have been effective so far. Chalice for the temp HP is great. Love the dragon for maintaining concentration. Great tip!
Monks are also among the best classes to abuse the dwarven fortitude feat. (Dwarven fortitude when you take the dodge action you can roll a hit die + CON and heal that many hitpoints) Since monks can do this as a bonus action (gets even better with a periapt of wound closure: double the hp recovered from hit dice) stars druid chalice form increasing healing from spells (wither and bloom works nicely for this) or when you're in wild shape you can use the beasts hit dice while still keeping your own.
You know what I'd like to see you guys do? Pick a few of the most popular DM's Guild classes and do multiclass combos with those. Even just Mercer's Bloodhunter, Leiser's Accursed, and Huffman's Pugilist would give you over a dozen episodes each.
I'd love to see the variations with bloodhunter.
Astral self monk can grapple with wisdom + reach, circle of stars druid can make every wisdom check minimum 10 (dragon form), you can grapple two people while still holding a shillelagh quarterstaff (do damage and atk based on wis) in your regular hands. if the grappled individuals are melee, you can keep them 10 feet above you effectively out of the fight while you stay in the fight with your quarterstaff. you can also keep casting spells, and dragon form allows you to maintain concentration since con rolls are also minimum 10
this becomes even better if are a wildhide shifter (could be another shifter cant remember for sure) because they have advantage on all wisdom checks so you’d have advantage on wis and your wis rolls can’t be below 10. now take a feat that gives you con proficiency or warcaster and you’re good to go
with this build, you can actually max your wis first and dex second because your main damage comes from wis anyway (shillelagh) and your grapple checks are wis and your spellcasting wont suffer either (wis)
Currently playing a Lizardfolk circle of spores druid/monk right now! I just got the staff of woodlands and I'm out here fighting side by side with my tree friend with awaken.
Great video, thanks! Picking up the Fighting Initiate feat for Unarmed Fighting style is a nice way to bump Astral Self damage - you hit like an 11th level Monk and get some bonus damage when grappling. You didn't touch on grappling much but Wisdom-based grappling with a flying Wild Shape is pretty strong - you can drop your victim(s!) for extra falling damage and/or just beat them up while in the air with your Astral Arms. Being a Yuan-Ti Monk/Moon Druid and Wild Shaping into snake forms just sounds like fun :)
I did a 2 level Circle of Stars Druid dip with my Sun Soul Monk build, to provide a free, ranged bonus action attack option (Archer form) to go with the main attack Radiant Sun Bolts and free Guiding Bolts, and a ton of utility (as usual). This character didn't make much use of Stunning Strike, although it was always in the back pocket if needed. The Sun Soul Monk takes a while to power up but kiting with consistent ranged radiant damage is fantastic in the right campaigns, and fighting from range mitigates a few of the usual Monk weaknesses (AC, HP).
Ya know I thought that Sun Soul could just do that attack as a bonus action regardless but I guess not. That seems really silly.
Overall that sounds like a great build. Honestly now that I think about it this feels more like how the Sun Soul SHOULD work hahaha
@@MonstersMulticlass Can't BA attack with a Radiant Sun Bolt for free. For the BA attack, it's 1 Ki point for 2 bolts or nothing. So archer stance is a way to stretch the ranged BA attack capacity a little further.
Maybe I am reading it wrong but the wording is "When you take the Attack action on your turn and use this special attack as part of it, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action."
It never says you can replace any unarmed strike with it
@@MonstersMulticlass That's also my reading: you have exactly two ways of using it: as part of the Attack action, and twice for 1 Ki point as a BA after taking the Attack action with it.
Lol okay I read the ability correctly I misread that you were clarifying, not refuting my statement.
Yeah this is why I hate sun soul.
Astral Arms=Displacer Beast
I played a monk druid at level 10. 6 level in monk way of mercy and 4 level in druid circle of spors it wos perfect
I don't care if they are underpowered. I love monks. My Tsuyu Asui build is a monk with 3 level dip in ranger. I gave a cleric I 1 level did to have an 18 AC without armor. Its just to good other than the damage.
It gets a lot of crap because it's one of the worst damage dealer martial but I think people forget that it's awesome to have a movement speed so high and the ability to weave in and out of combat so easily.
I really just wish disengage was free. Mobile can alleviate that but it's hard to justify
I used drunken for my build. If you use flurry then disengage is free from drunken technique.
Yeah sorry I was talking the monk in general. Drunken monk is perfect for getting around it though you're right
Yeah she is gloomstalker ranger 3 rest drunken monk. Trying to get all the stuff to replicate the characters powers was a pain lol
@@MonstersMulticlass For some reason, the Monk never gets credit for all the extra damage that other characters are able to do because of their stunning strike.
I made a druid like monk sub class call Way of beast mimicry
Level 3
Masters from Nature
Chooses three creatures up to cr 1 to and you can choose one physical or tactical feature from said creature and you can change learned style after monitoring a creature 3 days (in and out of battle) .
Altered style
As bonus action you can change your style also changing your damage type of your unarmed strikes
For a level 15 one shot I played a circle of the moon druid/astral self monk. We ended up going into the plane of fire to fight the salamander king or something like that. I turned into a fire elemental and started boxing him with force damage arms while he was unable to really do any significant damage to me. It was amazing.
I also want to say that this multi class has all the niche power that a ranger has while still being better than the ranger at base
You can also cast shillelagh and then your dex barely matters
3 lv way of shadow monk / the rest moon Druid
Is it worth 10/10 monk/druid? I want to be a fire elemental Bruce Lee.
Bear claws being an unarmed strike is just fun. I'd allow it.
Moon druid/monk
Would unarmored defense work while wild shape ?
Yep!
9:45 Oh man I almost got to play this! So sad I couldn't, but too add extra fun to this you can spice it up even further with Protector Aasimar. Congrats your bear can now fly and do extra radiant damage from 10ft range! What the fuck else do you want?
Legit you come online at 5 with that, 2 Moon Druid/3 Astral Monk.
At that point just focus Wis and go all monk for all the stupid shit you can then throw on top of an animal. If you only go 2 druid, it doesn't slow you down too much progression wise. And like you said, your not doing this because its viable, your doing this so that when you get caught out as a rat sneaking into the enemy basement you can wip out astral Jojo arms with 10ft reach to beat the shit out of whoever found you, or meow to all people present within 600ft, or run at 120ft as a bear over water.
Genuinely though, going back and forth is actually kind of a trap with these two (even when it comes to other subclass combo's). Like you said it just slows progression WAY too much, stick to the 2/3 (generally) and then go all in one way or the other.
I'm building a Shifter Monk of Mercy / Druid of Blight who is responsible for killing people and nature alike.... a lot of extra narcotic damage add ons!
narcotic damage, now that's interesting LOL. Kill them with kindness, and drugs.
Okay Pablo, ... narcotic damage, I guess this druid was friends with a spores druid.
7:38 I have to say I strongly disagree with that. You maintain your Wisdom score when wild shaping. You maintain Unarmored Defense when wild shaping. All your wild shapes get +4/+5 to their AC with max Wisdom.
Fair point! That can be useful for moon druid. But I rarely see other druids use wildshape for combat
Either way, that's a great point.
Also thank you for throwing in a time stamp. Some times I just see people referring to specific things in comments and Im like "I have no idea wtf I said"
Yet tabaxi claws and lizardfolk bites are unarmed strikes..... makes no sense to me.
Yeahhhh I mean I don't know if it'd be terribly broken to just let them get their claw attacks in. They're usually like a d6 anyways
@@MonstersMulticlass probably bc with 2 levels of moon druid and 2 levels of monk, turn into warhorse which does 2d6+4 hoove attacks. And if all flurry of blows hit a target they would take 6d6+12. That's close to fireball damage every turn.
Any creature, regardless of their stats can make an Unarmed Strike.
I’m confused why you think this takes a while to come online. At low levels, moon Druids are OP
I think that's the one that works well at low levels. The other one's...eh...they take a bit.
I think moon druid is the one that actually can carry this until your monk stuff really takes over as the better option
@@MonstersMulticlass Wild fire spirit can be decent starting at druid 3 using scorching ray with a bugbear and whatever you add in monk, than again bugbear is pretty much good on anything that can hit a lot.