Spot on. I went through this process. Muscular, working out, taking creatine. Dr orders a blood test and concludes my kidneys had failed, I had to see a nephrologist ASAP. A couple hours reading made it clear kidney eGFR calculated from creatinine levels is like measuring water level in a sink to diagnose the drain clog without considering how much the faucet is on. Cystatin C is another measure of kidney function not subject to these skews, so I called back asking for a Cystatin C test, the Dr hadn't heard of it. When I finally got the Cystatin C blood test (and urine test to be sure) it showed no issues.
Just another example why future doctors will work with the help of AI, as it raises the ability do spot problems and find solutions so much more efficient. You simply can not know everything as one person.
From what I understand, this confuses the symptom with the disease. having the disease will cause the symptom, having the symptom doesn't cause the disease. With typical levels of creatinine supply, High creatinine may mean poor kidney function, it doesn't cause poor kidney function. With atypically high levels of creatinine supply, high creatinine doesn't even indicate poor kidney function (let alone cause poor kidney function). It is simply an invalid metric.
@@Mike-rp6lb Yes, but I would definitely monitor eGFR, to be on the safe side, because what damages him not may be different for you . Kidney disease is absolutely terrible! I watched howy dad kidneys failed before he died a month ago. I love to take creatine and if do take I would take low dose not more 500 to 1000mg it until we have solid science
@john-martin oh man. Sorry to hear that. I guess it depends on the quality of the creatine that determines your experience with it. I'm 36. I've been taking creatine consistently since I was about 17 years old. Never had any issues
@@A_To_The_O Possibly was overtaking it thing more is better no matter the limit. I used to do that when I was younger. I always have protein in urine now.
This scenario is EXACTLY what I'm experiencing now and my blood work is exactly what you are describing. Doc started shouting at me to stop taking creatine as he asserted I was on a fast lane to renal failure.
Ignore the shouting part; get a referral to a nephrologist to confirm, or a different GP who doesn't shout at you. Difficult to say you should switch your GP as they might just really care about their patients, which is a very good thing, even if they have a blind spot in this one area of practice.
I was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease in 2019 for this very reason. I was taking RAD140 (without knowing it) in combination with MK677, this elevated my Creatinine levels and gave the false positive for kidney disease. When I had them test Cystatin C, everything was fine.
That's the FIRST thing my nephrologist told to do and even before my before my tests came back he already told me that my creatinine levels were elevated because I took creatine and was muscular. The irony is that I live in Brazil, from all places.
Years ago when I had a kidney stone, measurements suggested that my kidneys were crap. Nowadyas I go to the gym 3 - 4 times per week, I take lots of proteins AND creatine, and my kidneys are in perfect health.
Yeah for muscle growth, my genetics are quite crap. Fortunately I am a genius, rich and very handsome which compensates for that. (Less than one of those things is true.) @@marcelarbeiter4694
Medical Doctor and hypertrophy athelete weighing in on this topic (this is for informational purposes only not medical advice): lots of things can cause creatinine and e GFR to increase. If there is a measured elevated creatine in my practice I would follow up with a cystatin C test (which has been mentioned in the comments below), or if there is any doubt a 24 hour urine collection and calculation of creatinine clearance. The 24 hour creatinine clearance compares blood creatinine to the amount excreted in urine, thus reporting the kidney's ability to remove creatinine, a very good indicator of the magnitude of functioning nephrons. I have seen many cases of very high blood creatinine with completely normal creatinine clearance, i.e. normal kidney function.
Thank you for being a doc that understands this. I am an RN and have tried telling my Docs this, but they don't listen. I've been a strength and endurance athlete since I was 14 and have always had high creatinine, lower eGFR and it always raises concern. Luckily my PCP did some research and stopped freaking out about it. No one will order other tests to rule out things though.
Thanks for explaining this. Most doctors like myself do not know this. I am a family doctor and have had many athletes bring this up. Many of them were referred to a urologist. This often lead to multiple expensive lab test and ultrasounds.
@@sgtcannaboid Indeed. The oft mentioned "god complex" in relation to MD's, is more true than not in my experience, and those types don't like to admit to not knowing, being wrong, etc., due to a lot of, and a sensitive, ego. I suspect a fairly high percentage of MD's can probably place on the NPD spectrum.
TLDR- the methodology in the studies used elevated creatinine levels to conclude that creatine is bad for kidneys. But elevated creatinine is an expected byproduct of creatine supplementation, so this was stupid. Hopefully i saved you 9 minutes.
Also, creatine supplements are not required in the slightest, and are the biggest waste of money an athlete can make. Been working out for 22 years, and at 42 years old, can still 1RM AT 415 on a conventional deadlift and hit 100 burpees in 20 minutes despite asthma. There’s no replacement for good nutrition and good training. Your body can’t be made healthier from some powder made in some dude’s bathtub. I have saved hundreds of dollars by not using any supplements.
@@Kamawan0 Eactly! Although creatine is relatively cheap, bro's will spend good money on supplements and then eat at McDonald's. Ask a gym bro about nutrition and anything above protein and counting macros and they're dumbfounded.
Yea, I had a blood test and my EGFR was 98. I started taking creatine and my next blood draw it was 85. My mother died of kidney failure so I freaked out and stopped. 2 months later another draw and it was back to 98. I’m hesitant to go back on it but this kinda quells my fears a bit.
You are missing the cystatin C test. Traditionally eGFR is calculated based on your creatinine levels. However you can also get your eGFR calculated based on Cystatin C. I take creatine and had my eGFR measured both ways at the same time. My eGFR based on creatinine was 66 while it was 86 based on cystatin C (which is not influenced by the creatine intake).
If you take creatine and your doctor is worried about your creatinine/eGFR ask to retest your eGFR using cystatin C to remove the interference of the creatine in your test results. (It’s not a common test, so don’t be surprised if your doctor isn’t familiar with it)
I was referred to a nephrologist because my creatinine levels were “above normal”. I work out intensely and have above average lean body mass. This can give a false positive when getting your creatinine/eGFR measured. Long story short, after a cystatin C test and ultrasound, my kidneys were absolutely fine. I thanked my Dr for the unwarranted anxiety…. Lol
Thank you very much for creating this video. Your delivery of this info is very easy to understand for a layman such as myself, and the infusion of humour here and there makes it that much more consumable and entertaining. Keep up the amazing work
Super interesting! Thanks for sharing. FWIW, I think for anyone worried about this is to discontinue creatine intake 2 weeks before your scheduled routine blood test. That way it rules out the false positive based on creatine supplementation.
My creatinine levels have been high without creatine supplementation and they did not change when I started creatine supplementation. It may be high simply due muscle mass. Instead it's better to measure cystatin C to address kidney function. It works independently of muscle mass and supplementation.
Not true... when you stop taking creatine, you might experience muscle loss even in a 2 week period.. this muscle loss can be increasing your levels too... creatine is not a steroid but it help gaining and keeping fuller musles, like a steroid when you stop taking it your body start to adjust in about 1 week period and can be resulting in a small muscularity loss.. thsi will appear in your test.
This is something that i have thought about and grappled with for over a decade. I finally decided to stop taking creatine due to elevated creatinine and lower eGFR levels. i don’t disagree with anything you are saying but don’t want to take any chances.
I had kidney problems when i began supplementing (low) doses of creatine. blood in urine was one problem, high protein in urine was another. All problems are gone since I quit taking creatine. Of course I was advised by a nephrologist.
I was taking creatine also in a protein powder hybrid mix and started having kidney pain and went to the hospital and blood in urine. Been off of it since.
Hmm iv been having a bit of back pain lately, I recently started weight training again and thus taking creatine. iv also had a niggling lower back ache and hip pain on my right side for a few weeks. I took a week or 2 off the creatine and it seems to have died down…so iv took it again the last 2 days and the back ache seems to have came back already!. Not seeming good, il be gutted having to stop taking it as I respond soo well to it! :(
Yeah, it helps store water, at the beginning it will drag the water you have to your muscles so you will have to intake additional if not double the usual water. That at least for the first few weeks depending on your approach to saturated on it.
I’m so thankful I came across this video, as my doctor was incorrectly using my eGFR to base a diagnosis and even my body composition test showed my lean muscle mass was 30% above average. Also the study from the NIDDK states eGFR tests shouldn’t be used for Obese individuals either.
Very interesting analysis. Another marker that may increase along with this is the Urea Nitrogen. If one is doing a carnivore diet, BUN can be elevated (it is in myself, and others have shown this as well in their labs). So, it would leave less "markers" available to clear one of kidney dysfunction. There is a test that tests for micro albumin that is relatively easy to get the doctor to order though, just to make sure that is being cleared! Thank you for the report, I was considering taking the creatinine, but I don't need more things to "worry" about and present to the doctor for "testing approval" at the VA clinic.
Helpful to mention that cyastatin-C is a good measure of kidney health and easy enough to have measured instead of e-GFR. I started this additional blood marker a year ago for exactly this reason - my creatinine was elevated and e-GFR depressed. Alas, all is fine.
I gave up with creatine because I suffered a lot of skin itching and muscle cramps. I tested this by stopping creatine (and keeping everything else the same) for a few weeks, then went back to supplementing and the itching and cramps returned. And this was on a touch less than 4g per day. My eGFR did drop by some 20 points, but I understood this at the time to be a side effect of creatinine production anyway. It's the other effects that made me give up - creatine supplementation seems not to agree with me.
@@Physionic Hey, I love your content! Would you give us some info about the proper daily dosage of Creatine? It would be a nice video to list the best dosages for most of the important supplements :) Thank you!
I used to have dreadful cramps in my legs. I solved it by changing to flat shoes and improving my technique. I am still on creatine twice a day so I don't believe that caused it.. 🙂
Thank you for this! I have been waiting for a long time for someone to post on this very topic. It would be great if you could also explain creatine’s impact on other kidney assays like Microalbumin Creatinine Ratio.
Great discussion. I've seen numerous videos on how creatine can lead to elevated creatinine. But most videos stop at saying that creatinine is not a true indicator of kidney health when you supplement with creatine. I've always wanted more details! You're the first one I've seen who explains how we can look at other indicators to get a real sense of kidney function.
Thanks Nick, you have re-vamped my interest in Creatine, I stopped taking it years ago when they said it was dangerous...now at 55 I feel it can help me now...
Loving this. My doctor rang me saying I've a eGFR of 59. that's stage 3a. What he didn't think about was that (there are different formulas calc for eGFR (CKD-EPI and MDRD) and none considers shape/either fat or muscular) that I supplement 5gr for like 15 years, been in the gym before my blood drawn, and am a seize m male. My creatinine was elevated 128uMol/L (not a surprise given that I worked out before and supplement) but all other stuff like Ka/Na levels, albumin (no protein in urine) were all in line. It s about the trend. I do not use NaCl as salt at home so the bad eGFR could be triggered by my creatinine as that's the value they use for calc. So to massage the numbers I did a second test a few weeks later w/o creatine supplementation and the trend in eGfR goes to normal. DO a cystatine if other values like proteinuria relevant ones (arginine/Cre ratio) are raised too. Otherwise a Cystatine is smashing the eGFR as it likely shows you are healthy. A eGFR only works if you have very normal shape. Whence you deviate from the norm with broader shoulders or more pronounced tummy... you ll be falsely earmarked
I had this happen with my doc. When I looked into it . I found that athletic people often have elevated creatinine. So it is actually a sign of good health
My doctor freaked me out last year when she told me she's concerned about my kidney, my eGFR was 80. I stopped using creatine for a whole year just to see if the number would change. Took my blood test last week, it's 103.
Thank you for this video, I've been having this battle with my doctors for the last ten years. I have a test once a year for which uses the creatinine formula. I have been in the gym for 30 years. I practically stop going to the gym two weeks before my test and I don't eat meat for two weeks or creatine. My test results come out fine. I even tell the doctors my concern about the test nit being correct and also what I do before the test. Most of them agree with me. I still get my test done once a year to keep an eye on things.
This is such a great explanation, physionic! I’ve been concerned. I’m an old man who needs help with neuro function in many ways, but of course not at the expense of kidney function.
To be fair... you dont need creatine to help with neuro function... you only need a regular activity requirering reaction time and reflexes... this will help a lot more than taking creatine. Also trying to learn a new skill, doing somehting like playing music, doing something creative, will help creating new conextion in the brain without the help of suplementation even at an older age.
Been taking creatine for over 25 years. Kaiser always used the typical blood test showing creatinine levels high. C cystain blood test showed better GFR.
I used creatine supplementation. My creatinine was elevated. I stopped using creatine told by doctor. My creatinine elevated more. Its not much elavated, just doesnt fit in the reference range. I took Cystatin-C test and it was completely normal... my dad has had same thing at least last 15 years, no problems... so at least in my case taking creatine at least doesnt elevate my creatinine and since Cystine-C is fine I think my kidney function is fine.
As someone with chronic kidney disease, taking Creatine 5g causes me immense kidney pain as well as decreasing my gfr. So i can only give you my perspective as a CKD patient, I don't believe it causes it, but it doesn't help!! Well i love the pump but yeay the pain..m
Ive been taking creatine on and off for about 15 years. Recently had blood work, everything was fine. Theres a huge population of creatine users going back decades. I feel like people that are having kidney problems is either an underlying issue or unrelated 🤔
Always love your videos! Thanks! Also have you heard of the Oreo vs statin study that just came out? Would be interesting to get your take since you’re one of my favourite sources of unbiased media! Thanks again!
@@gb7168 I’m aware it wasn’t designed as a ‘oreos are healthy’ study. It is an interesting study specifically because it is not the outcome current scientific findings in the field would predict would occur to cholesterol levels. I think it kinda goes without saying that Oreo’s weren’t meant to show that they were healthy. It’s a discussion on how the introduction of carbs can tank cholesterol levels in individuals with raised levels due to their diets.
My creatinine levels actually went from low to normal a year after beginning to take creatine. Although, my muscle mass and protein intake also increased which also have affects on it according to Google
I'm 60 years old never had problems with my kidneys been using creatine 5 g a day for the last 2 years I got a blood check my creatinine levels went way up.
What a coincidence, this month I received my blood test results and scored a "C3" on kidney function, high creatinine (by .1mg/dL according to their range), but normal eGFR. Been taking 5g creatine daily for years.
It doesn't put them under any particular pressure. Creatinine is just one of the many things the kidneys filter and increasing it by 50% is more like adding 0.01% more strain on the kidney, just like eating more protein or drinking more water (which are both important) would.
This is exactly what I been experiencing. High creatinine. Low BUN/creatinine ratio. Low eGFR. Stopped taking creatinine for a while til improvement. Just started back taking while creatinine level was still slightly out of range. Scared my kidneys wasn’t functioning properly, but I realized it due to my high protein, workout intensity that causes muscle breakdown and muscle mass. I’m convinced I’ll never have another lab result with creatinine levels being in range.
Indeed, a few weeks after I stopped taking Creatine (always under 5g per day), my eGFR improved significantly. It went from a very concerning 66 to an impressive 109, which is even better than the average for teenagers! Given this experience, I'm inclined to avoid taking Creatine for the foreseeable future, just to be cautious...
Better to err on the side of caution- and listen to your body. Those of us in our 60s are going through changes that those in their 30s are not. @physionic
As a kidney transplant patient with creatinine level of 1.1. EGFR, 76 I still can't justify taking this supplement. The key question I have, is what does your EGFR look like after 2 weeks of not consuming this supplement. If your EGFR is still suppressed, that's a problem. Also, it generally takes longer and a more deteriorated kidney function to start spilling protein in the urine.
Haha I recently just went through this. Both had dropped so my doc sent me to a nephrologist. They did tests that looked at my kidneys outside of the usual ones and my kidneys are fine.
Thanx Nick for clarifying...I indeed have seen the exact same issue, high creatinine (and therefore low eGFR) when taking creatine. When I stopped taking creatine my creatinine level dropped to a more "normal" level. As per your recommendation I will check out the other variables. BTW- My doctor was only vaguely aware of creatine vs creatinine information you pointed out in this video.
I have used creatine in various forms for almost 20 yrs and never ever had any issues ,however i mainly favor pure creatine vs all the fancy labels with extra fillers than doesn't do anything but jack the price on the item
I my eGFR drop dawn a loot 😢 I was at 81 then 75 then 67 now 63. Doctor told me to stop taking creatine , I’m gonna have CT scan, and proper GFR test. We will see how this will turns out. 😢
I'm 62 years old and had just started using creatinine for few months at 5 g a day. My blood test showed a high creatinine level so I stop using it for a few weeks and retested and it went back to normal. Problem is, I still can't take it because I have high blood pressure and that can be a problematical thing with taking creatine
Where was this video BEFORE I was worried about my kidney function in the blood test having high creatinine levels and low filtration as you pointed out assuming it was not related to creatinine levels due to high musculature and athletic training. Tuned out there was absolutely nothing wrong with my kidneys..from the follow up. Now I'm actually taking creatine for the past 6 weeks and although it's boost is very subtle. I noticed my endurance increased. I'm not planning to continue taking it for 15 years, however it I do like that small boost.
Great video, but over my head. I think studies are subjective with confusing intentions. Been cycling creatine monohydrate - now micronized since 1995 to present (29 years) with zero issues. Packed on 60 lbs (155-215) when bodybuilding, but now sustainable weight at +~40 lbs (185-195) for indoor/outdoor climbing & downhill skateboarding. 56 years old and cycle 6-8 weeks on, with a few weeks off-no more than 3-4 g every other day. I can still feel the strength, but also mental clarity when on it.
I started 5gr of creatine a day along with taurine-- and IMMEDIATELY noted trouble urinating, stopped up. I stopped and repeated and found exactly the same thing happening. Not a good sign.
Thats one of my reason why i dont take creatine... Kidney desease was scary my friend suffered at a young age... I think i need to consult a doctor 1st
I went through times of low blood creatinine. GFR stays around 110 though and in late 50's. I was exihibiting all the symptoms of low protein at that time. I had proteinuria with level two leaking in my twenties.
I've been using creatine for 6 months with no kidney issues. I might add I have a carnivore keto diet, intermittent fasting 20hours, no sugar, alcohol or drugs.
Great video! The misinterpretation of ancillary data on patients that are muscular and supplement their diet with creatine results in many unneeded referrals to nephrology and additional unneeded testing. Worse, it prompts renal adjustments to medications impairing efficacy. Thank you for sharing this excellent video and your efforts to educate patients and those that care for them!
My GP also pointed out elevated creatinine levels, I suggested that it may come from my daily consumption of creatin, she replied, "no, we've measured creatinINE, not creatin." I am looking for a new GP now.
I started taking creatine just a month ago for the first time and had a periodic blood/lab work done (it’s mostly to control my cholesterol levels cuz they’re high) the result I received today (elevated creatinine) for the first time,, 6 months ago my creatinine value was just normal ! I am afraid of taking the supplement anymore besides I haven’t noticed any improvement in my athletic performance that I could thank creatin for 😢
I think you should make the decision to take it or not after you get a blood test to check your kidney function. If you already dont have great kidney function probably not worth taking it
Creatinine is elevated when you do very hard weight training, so there’s probably a correlation of people who take creatine and do heavy weight training. I don’t know too many people who do Pilates and have a vegan diet and also take creatine
Stopping my creatine today to be on the safe side at 73rd yr. Will be good to loose excess puffiness of water weight. I consume a lot of red meat anyway.
Was taking creatine for 1 month and started to have left kidney pain when lying on the left side. Went to see the provider, tested, and eGRP accused stage 3a. Have no diabetes, no high BP, never eat junk, but just ovo-vegetarian meals, and plenty of H2O. I stopped creatine, but will reconsidered after corroborating tests show no problems…
well i started getting issues with my kidneys when i started creatine. I thought it was in my head. Stopped creatine, then started again. And my kidneys actually started to hurt and had frothy urine. So unfortunately, I'll never touch it again.
I heard that creatine help with bone density so I went to GNC to get some creatine and I spoke with the customer service lady and she told me that right now there's a lot of buzz going around creatine but it won't help your bone density and it can mess up your kidneys if you're not careful , she told me what to take instead for bones,, I also asked my doctor if I should take creatine for my bone density and she also said not a good idea, she didn't want her own son taking creatine for fear of kidney issues but she also told me it won't help bone density
@@orandachildren1051 why fired? She was a retired athlete she told me a little bit about her history she said she's tried everything all different types of sports supplements and she said based on what I was looking for creatine wasn't going to be good for me especially since I don't like drinking water all day , she emphasize that you have to drink lots and lots of water if you're on creatine but I just can't do that , I hate drinking water I can't force myself to drink it all day,, my doctor said she was researching creatine for her son and she said because of the health risks she didn't want her son taking it and she didn't feel it was going to be good for me there's better things for helping my bone density that won't risk my kidneys
Just watched same kind of video with leading doctor and expert on creatine and he said it doesn't cause kidney problems or hair loss so I'll go with him he has more experience on this subject than any other so called expert
Over the past 5-7 years, I've posted all my blood work numbers in a spreadsheet. I'm glad I did. I can see the numbers and direction of all my readings. It only takes a few minutes per report.
If you are getting kidneys tested consider a Cystatin C test. It is an alternate kidney function test that isn't skewed by creatine use, being muscular, or working out a lot.
Also depends on the type of creatine you take. There is some real rubbish ones out there and don’t double the doses stick to 3 grams a day and no issue.
I LOVE CREATINE BUT I CANT TAKE IT !! IF I TAKE 750 MG ONE PIL ALKALINE CREATINE AFTHER 15 MIN I HAVE PAIN IN MY LOWER BACK !! AND ITS THERE FOR 2 HOURS !! SOO I CANT TAKE IT ! I TRY ALL TIPES !!! GOOD VIDEO !!
I get on and off creatine 5grams… always messes my lower back/kidneys I tried micro dosing 2 grams a day but still the pain comes back… so I stopped taking it and I’m ok now😓
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Spot on. I went through this process. Muscular, working out, taking creatine. Dr orders a blood test and concludes my kidneys had failed, I had to see a nephrologist ASAP. A couple hours reading made it clear kidney eGFR calculated from creatinine levels is like measuring water level in a sink to diagnose the drain clog without considering how much the faucet is on. Cystatin C is another measure of kidney function not subject to these skews, so I called back asking for a Cystatin C test, the Dr hadn't heard of it. When I finally got the Cystatin C blood test (and urine test to be sure) it showed no issues.
Just another example why future doctors will work with the help of AI, as it raises the ability do spot problems and find solutions so much more efficient. You simply can not know everything as one person.
Still raised creatinine or low egfr could cause damage or weaken the kidneys long term
From what I understand, this confuses the symptom with the disease. having the disease will cause the symptom, having the symptom doesn't cause the disease. With typical levels of creatinine supply, High creatinine may mean poor kidney function, it doesn't cause poor kidney function. With atypically high levels of creatinine supply, high creatinine doesn't even indicate poor kidney function (let alone cause poor kidney function). It is simply an invalid metric.
@@Mike-rp6lb Yes, but I would definitely monitor eGFR, to be on the safe side, because what damages him not may be different for you . Kidney disease is absolutely terrible! I watched howy dad kidneys failed before he died a month ago. I love to take creatine and if do take I would take low dose not more 500 to 1000mg it until we have solid science
This. And then you just have to wonder just how many other things fall under the same category.. @@Mike-rp6lb
Ive been on creatine for over 15 years consistently. No issues at all
My best friend took it for only 6 months and recently passed away because of kidney failure.
@john-martin oh man. Sorry to hear that. I guess it depends on the quality of the creatine that determines your experience with it. I'm 36. I've been taking creatine consistently since I was about 17 years old. Never had any issues
@@john-martin that had nothing to do with creatine you guys are nuts man .... he probably had underline conditions
@@nybadboy5150I agree this is probably for majority of the cases with a few fluke case due to the persons body being different as everyones body is
@@A_To_The_O Possibly was overtaking it thing more is better no matter the limit. I used to do that when I was younger. I always have protein in urine now.
This scenario is EXACTLY what I'm experiencing now and my blood work is exactly what you are describing. Doc started shouting at me to stop taking creatine as he asserted I was on a fast lane to renal failure.
Ignore the shouting part; get a referral to a nephrologist to confirm, or a different GP who doesn't shout at you. Difficult to say you should switch your GP as they might just really care about their patients, which is a very good thing, even if they have a blind spot in this one area of practice.
Ask your nephrologist about the cystatin C test
I use Cystatin C for kidney monitoring. It is a better biomarker and not influenced by Creatine.
I was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease in 2019 for this very reason. I was taking RAD140 (without knowing it) in combination with MK677, this elevated my Creatinine levels and gave the false positive for kidney disease. When I had them test Cystatin C, everything was fine.
That's the FIRST thing my nephrologist told to do and even before my before my tests came back he already told me that my creatinine levels were elevated because I took creatine and was muscular. The irony is that I live in Brazil, from all places.
Years ago when I had a kidney stone, measurements suggested that my kidneys were crap.
Nowadyas I go to the gym 3 - 4 times per week, I take lots of proteins AND creatine, and my kidneys are in perfect health.
Well genetic always wins
Yeah for muscle growth, my genetics are quite crap.
Fortunately I am a genius, rich and very handsome which compensates for that.
(Less than one of those things is true.)
@@marcelarbeiter4694
Medical Doctor and hypertrophy athelete weighing in on this topic (this is for informational purposes only not medical advice): lots of things can cause creatinine and e GFR to increase. If there is a measured elevated creatine in my practice I would follow up with a cystatin C test (which has been mentioned in the comments below), or if there is any doubt a 24 hour urine collection and calculation of creatinine clearance. The 24 hour creatinine clearance compares blood creatinine to the amount excreted in urine, thus reporting the kidney's ability to remove creatinine, a very good indicator of the magnitude of functioning nephrons. I have seen many cases of very high blood creatinine with completely normal creatinine clearance, i.e. normal kidney function.
Thank you for being a doc that understands this. I am an RN and have tried telling my Docs this, but they don't listen. I've been a strength and endurance athlete since I was 14 and have always had high creatinine, lower eGFR and it always raises concern. Luckily my PCP did some research and stopped freaking out about it. No one will order other tests to rule out things though.
Same here. Get a cystatin C test for $40 and sleep easy.
I've been using Creatine for over 25 years with no bad side effects that I know of.
You're bald I guess
@@Mercury1955 prove it lol
@@mannyblackstar why does it make you bald?
@@qasmb1546 because creatine increases DHT
@qasmb1546 It doesn’t make you bald
Thanks for explaining this. Most doctors like myself do not know this. I am a family doctor and have had many athletes bring this up. Many of them were referred to a urologist. This often lead to multiple expensive lab test and ultrasounds.
Your honesty is refreshing.
@@sgtcannaboid Indeed. The oft mentioned "god complex" in relation to MD's, is more true than not in my experience, and those types don't like to admit to not knowing, being wrong, etc., due to a lot of, and a sensitive, ego. I suspect a fairly high percentage of MD's can probably place on the NPD spectrum.
Thank you for staying up to date and bettering your knowledge, it will continue to pay off, no one knows everything 😉
I really appreciate your "splashes" of humor mixed with the good information...kudos to you.
TLDR- the methodology in the studies used elevated creatinine levels to conclude that creatine is bad for kidneys. But elevated creatinine is an expected byproduct of creatine supplementation, so this was stupid. Hopefully i saved you 9 minutes.
Also, creatine supplements are not required in the slightest, and are the biggest waste of money an athlete can make. Been working out for 22 years, and at 42 years old, can still 1RM AT 415 on a conventional deadlift and hit 100 burpees in 20 minutes despite asthma. There’s no replacement for good nutrition and good training. Your body can’t be made healthier from some powder made in some dude’s bathtub. I have saved hundreds of dollars by not using any supplements.
@@Kamawan0 Eactly! Although creatine is relatively cheap, bro's will spend good money on supplements and then eat at McDonald's. Ask a gym bro about nutrition and anything above protein and counting macros and they're dumbfounded.
Thank you for the quick summary. Appreciate the saved time.
Thanks man!
Yea, I had a blood test and my EGFR was 98. I started taking creatine and my next blood draw it was 85. My mother died of kidney failure so I freaked out and stopped. 2 months later another draw and it was back to 98. I’m hesitant to go back on it but this kinda quells my fears a bit.
You are missing the cystatin C test.
Traditionally eGFR is calculated based on your creatinine levels. However you can also get your eGFR calculated based on Cystatin C.
I take creatine and had my eGFR measured both ways at the same time.
My eGFR based on creatinine was 66 while it was 86 based on cystatin C (which is not influenced by the creatine intake).
If you take creatine and your doctor is worried about your creatinine/eGFR ask to retest your eGFR using cystatin C to remove the interference of the creatine in your test results. (It’s not a common test, so don’t be surprised if your doctor isn’t familiar with it)
I was referred to a nephrologist because my creatinine levels were “above normal”. I work out intensely and have above average lean body mass. This can give a false positive when getting your creatinine/eGFR measured. Long story short, after a cystatin C test and ultrasound, my kidneys were absolutely fine. I thanked my Dr for the unwarranted anxiety…. Lol
Does this mean creatine hurt your kidneys?
Not at all.
Not at all.
Thank you very much for creating this video.
Your delivery of this info is very easy to understand for a layman such as myself, and the infusion of humour here and there makes it that much more consumable and entertaining.
Keep up the amazing work
Thanks!
Super interesting! Thanks for sharing. FWIW, I think for anyone worried about this is to discontinue creatine intake 2 weeks before your scheduled routine blood test. That way it rules out the false positive based on creatine supplementation.
My creatinine levels have been high without creatine supplementation and they did not change when I started creatine supplementation. It may be high simply due muscle mass. Instead it's better to measure cystatin C to address kidney function. It works independently of muscle mass and supplementation.
That makes the most sense, no one freaks out about the result.
Not true... when you stop taking creatine, you might experience muscle loss even in a 2 week period.. this muscle loss can be increasing your levels too... creatine is not a steroid but it help gaining and keeping fuller musles, like a steroid when you stop taking it your body start to adjust in about 1 week period and can be resulting in a small muscularity loss.. thsi will appear in your test.
@@FulguroGeek Not true. Stopping creatine does *not* lead to muscle loss, only loss of water from muscles.
Creatine + metabolism = creatinine. Therefore, it’s an artificial inflation of a clinical biomarker, not the causative agent of kidney disease.
This is something that i have thought about and grappled with for over a decade. I finally decided to stop taking creatine due to elevated creatinine and lower eGFR levels. i don’t disagree with anything you are saying but don’t want to take any chances.
Thanks for your presentation. Very helpful. I was freaked at the start of your video , now I’m reassured 😊
I had kidney problems when i began supplementing (low) doses of creatine. blood in urine was one problem, high protein in urine was another. All problems are gone since I quit taking creatine. Of course I was advised by a nephrologist.
Seems like something was going on there, Juno. Glad you got off it.
I was taking creatine also in a protein powder hybrid mix and started having kidney pain and went to the hospital and blood in urine. Been off of it since.
Now i know why i had blood in Urin some years ago.
I was freaked out.
Doc told me i got a cystitis or kidneystones...
Hmm iv been having a bit of back pain lately, I recently started weight training again and thus taking creatine. iv also had a niggling lower back ache and hip pain on my right side for a few weeks. I took a week or 2 off the creatine and it seems to have died down…so iv took it again the last 2 days and the back ache seems to have came back already!. Not seeming good, il be gutted having to stop taking it as I respond soo well to it! :(
@@27walker27 reduce your intakte or Quit.
I dont take over 5g a day.
Better every second.
Excellent video, great info to understand!
Years ago, I started taking creatine and started to have minor kidney pain. I never tried it again. Listen to your body.
Yeah, it helps store water, at the beginning it will drag the water you have to your muscles so you will have to intake additional if not double the usual water. That at least for the first few weeks depending on your approach to saturated on it.
Low dose is the key always . Gym people take too much
You probably were not hydrated well enough.
Did you like take 60 scoops or something lol
Source:trust me bro
I’m so thankful I came across this video, as my doctor was incorrectly using my eGFR to base a diagnosis and even my body composition test showed my lean muscle mass was 30% above average. Also the study from the NIDDK states eGFR tests shouldn’t be used for Obese individuals either.
I recently have both those issues,so thanks for clearing it up, I guess the bottom line is creatine is not harmful to my kidneys.
No, it is, because of the reasons I stated at top. Stop using it immediately.
I don’t see your previous comments.
Creatine is NOT harmful to kidneys. However, if you have kidney disease, then extra protein and creatine can be harmful.
@@user255 how?
@@floydald They cause extra burden to kidneys. More to filter from blood plasma.
Very interesting analysis.
Another marker that may increase along with this is the Urea Nitrogen. If one is doing a carnivore diet, BUN can be elevated (it is in myself, and others have shown this as well in their labs). So, it would leave less "markers" available to clear one of kidney dysfunction.
There is a test that tests for micro albumin that is relatively easy to get the doctor to order though, just to make sure that is being cleared!
Thank you for the report, I was considering taking the creatinine, but I don't need more things to "worry" about and present to the doctor for "testing approval" at the VA clinic.
Helpful to mention that cyastatin-C is a good measure of kidney health and easy enough to have measured instead of e-GFR. I started this additional blood marker a year ago for exactly this reason - my creatinine was elevated and e-GFR depressed. Alas, all is fine.
I gave up with creatine because I suffered a lot of skin itching and muscle cramps. I tested this by stopping creatine (and keeping everything else the same) for a few weeks, then went back to supplementing and the itching and cramps returned. And this was on a touch less than 4g per day. My eGFR did drop by some 20 points, but I understood this at the time to be a side effect of creatinine production anyway. It's the other effects that made me give up - creatine supplementation seems not to agree with me.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
@@Physionic Hey, I love your content! Would you give us some info about the proper daily dosage of Creatine? It would be a nice video to list the best dosages for most of the important supplements :) Thank you!
@@Sonnellhe has that video up already. He takes 5 grams of creatine a day.
@@haydengalloway5177That's a lot 😮
I used to have dreadful cramps in my legs. I solved it by changing to flat shoes and improving my technique. I am still on creatine twice a day so I don't believe that caused it.. 🙂
Thanks for the information. Don't pay attention to the negativity in the chat. Help saving life sir
Thank you for this! I have been waiting for a long time for someone to post on this very topic. It would be great if you could also explain creatine’s impact on other kidney assays like Microalbumin Creatinine Ratio.
Great discussion. I've seen numerous videos on how creatine can lead to elevated creatinine. But most videos stop at saying that creatinine is not a true indicator of kidney health when you supplement with creatine. I've always wanted more details! You're the first one I've seen who explains how we can look at other indicators to get a real sense of kidney function.
Thanks Nick, you have re-vamped my interest in Creatine, I stopped taking it years ago when they said it was dangerous...now at 55 I feel it can help me now...
Loving this. My doctor rang me saying I've a eGFR of 59. that's stage 3a. What he didn't think about was that (there are different formulas calc for eGFR (CKD-EPI and MDRD) and none considers shape/either fat or muscular) that I supplement 5gr for like 15 years, been in the gym before my blood drawn, and am a seize m male. My creatinine was elevated 128uMol/L (not a surprise given that I worked out before and supplement) but all other stuff like Ka/Na levels, albumin (no protein in urine) were all in line. It s about the trend. I do not use NaCl as salt at home so the bad eGFR could be triggered by my creatinine as that's the value they use for calc. So to massage the numbers I did a second test a few weeks later w/o creatine supplementation and the trend in eGfR goes to normal. DO a cystatine if other values like proteinuria relevant ones (arginine/Cre ratio) are raised too. Otherwise a Cystatine is smashing the eGFR as it likely shows you are healthy. A eGFR only works if you have very normal shape. Whence you deviate from the norm with broader shoulders or more pronounced tummy... you ll be falsely earmarked
I had this happen with my doc.
When I looked into it .
I found that athletic people often have elevated creatinine.
So it is actually a sign of good health
My doctor freaked me out last year when she told me she's concerned about my kidney, my eGFR was 80. I stopped using creatine for a whole year just to see if the number would change. Took my blood test last week, it's 103.
Thank you for this video, I've been having this battle with my doctors for the last ten years.
I have a test once a year for which uses the creatinine formula. I have been in the gym for 30 years.
I practically stop going to the gym two weeks before my test and I don't eat meat for two weeks or creatine. My test results come out fine. I even tell the doctors my concern about the test nit being correct and also what I do before the test. Most of them agree with me. I still get my test done once a year to keep an eye on things.
Using Creatine Monohydrate for 7 years straight. Done blood work and scan many times. No problem whatsoever.
This is such a great explanation, physionic! I’ve been concerned. I’m an old man who needs help with neuro function in many ways, but of course not at the expense of kidney function.
To be fair... you dont need creatine to help with neuro function... you only need a regular activity requirering reaction time and reflexes... this will help a lot more than taking creatine. Also trying to learn a new skill, doing somehting like playing music, doing something creative, will help creating new conextion in the brain without the help of suplementation even at an older age.
Been taking creatine for over 25 years. Kaiser always used the typical blood test showing creatinine levels high. C cystain blood test showed better GFR.
I used creatine supplementation. My creatinine was elevated. I stopped using creatine told by doctor. My creatinine elevated more. Its not much elavated, just doesnt fit in the reference range. I took Cystatin-C test and it was completely normal... my dad has had same thing at least last 15 years, no problems... so at least in my case taking creatine at least doesnt elevate my creatinine and since Cystine-C is fine I think my kidney function is fine.
Great content. I can't wait to check out your other videos.
As someone with chronic kidney disease, taking Creatine 5g causes me immense kidney pain as well as decreasing my gfr.
So i can only give you my perspective as a CKD patient, I don't believe it causes it, but it doesn't help!! Well i love the pump but yeay the pain..m
Ive been taking creatine on and off for about 15 years. Recently had blood work, everything was fine. Theres a huge population of creatine users going back decades. I feel like people that are having kidney problems is either an underlying issue or unrelated 🤔
Wouldn't it be best to stop supplementing Creatine for a week or two before getting a blood test?
Always love your videos! Thanks! Also have you heard of the Oreo vs statin study that just came out? Would be interesting to get your take since you’re one of my favourite sources of unbiased media! Thanks again!
@@gb7168 I’m aware it wasn’t designed as a ‘oreos are healthy’ study. It is an interesting study specifically because it is not the outcome current scientific findings in the field would predict would occur to cholesterol levels. I think it kinda goes without saying that Oreo’s weren’t meant to show that they were healthy. It’s a discussion on how the introduction of carbs can tank cholesterol levels in individuals with raised levels due to their diets.
My creatinine levels actually went from low to normal a year after beginning to take creatine. Although, my muscle mass and protein intake also increased which also have affects on it according to Google
I'm 60 years old never had problems with my kidneys been using creatine 5 g a day for the last 2 years I got a blood check my creatinine levels went way up.
I noticed my eGFR when taking creatine (as measured by egfr(createnine) was 63 … I switched to a cystatin-c test and eGFR was 104 …
What a coincidence, this month I received my blood test results and scored a "C3" on kidney function, high creatinine (by .1mg/dL according to their range), but normal eGFR. Been taking 5g creatine daily for years.
Still raised creatinine or low egfr could cause damage or weaken the kidneys long term possibly if they constantly are under pressure
It doesn't put them under any particular pressure. Creatinine is just one of the many things the kidneys filter and increasing it by 50% is more like adding 0.01% more strain on the kidney, just like eating more protein or drinking more water (which are both important) would.
Such a dork…and I love it! Awesome video, great information
This is exactly what I been experiencing. High creatinine. Low BUN/creatinine ratio. Low eGFR. Stopped taking creatinine for a while til improvement. Just started back taking while creatinine level was still slightly out of range. Scared my kidneys wasn’t functioning properly, but I realized it due to my high protein, workout intensity that causes muscle breakdown and muscle mass. I’m convinced I’ll never have another lab result with creatinine levels being in range.
Indeed, a few weeks after I stopped taking Creatine (always under 5g per day), my eGFR improved significantly. It went from a very concerning 66 to an impressive 109, which is even better than the average for teenagers! Given this experience, I'm inclined to avoid taking Creatine for the foreseeable future, just to be cautious...
Then you misunderstood this video and the results.
@@Sonnell Or, I don't fully buy the explanation...
Glad you stopped. I am stopping to take mine too!
Better to err on the side of caution- and listen to your body. Those of us in our 60s are going through changes that those in their 30s are not. @physionic
Others have commented that the cystatin C test is more accurate than an eGFR estimate based on creatinine levels.
Thanks Nick! Very helpful
Go, Nick...I love you, man.
As a kidney transplant patient with creatinine level of 1.1. EGFR, 76 I still can't justify taking this supplement. The key question I have, is what does your EGFR look like after 2 weeks of not consuming this supplement. If your EGFR is still suppressed, that's a problem.
Also, it generally takes longer and a more deteriorated kidney function to start spilling protein in the urine.
Haha I recently just went through this. Both had dropped so my doc sent me to a nephrologist. They did tests that looked at my kidneys outside of the usual ones and my kidneys are fine.
Glad you didn’t die :)
I love your videos man. i really do.
I appreciate that!
Thanx Nick for clarifying...I indeed have seen the exact same issue, high creatinine (and therefore low eGFR) when taking creatine. When I stopped taking creatine my creatinine level dropped to a more "normal" level. As per your recommendation I will check out the other variables. BTW- My doctor was only vaguely aware of creatine vs creatinine information you pointed out in this video.
I tested 63 on my egfr based on creatinine, I got my Cystatin C done and that egfr came back to 93 so I don’t worry about it anymore.
I have used creatine in various forms for almost 20 yrs and never ever had any issues ,however i mainly favor pure creatine vs all the fancy labels with extra fillers than doesn't do anything but jack the price on the item
I my eGFR drop dawn a loot 😢 I was at 81 then 75 then 67 now 63. Doctor told me to stop taking creatine , I’m gonna have CT scan, and proper GFR test. We will see how this will turns out. 😢
Was taking 4.5g a day and eGFR went down to 84.
Stopped for 1 month and eGFR went up to 106
Great Video, Thanks
I'm 62 years old and had just started using creatinine for few months at 5 g a day. My blood test showed a high creatinine level so I stop using it for a few weeks and retested and it went back to normal. Problem is, I still can't take it because I have high blood pressure and that can be a problematical thing with taking creatine
Just got the same results two times in a row and will ask for Cystatin c test.
Did he mention the Cystatin C test in the video?
Where was this video BEFORE I was worried about my kidney function in the blood test having high creatinine levels and low filtration as you pointed out assuming it was not related to creatinine levels due to high musculature and athletic training. Tuned out there was absolutely nothing wrong with my kidneys..from the follow up. Now I'm actually taking creatine for the past 6 weeks and although it's boost is very subtle. I noticed my endurance increased. I'm not planning to continue taking it for 15 years, however it I do like that small boost.
thank you. I enjoyed your guest appearance on dr lyon's podcast.
Thanks, Joe
Great stuff. I'm going to save this video for when my doc freaks out.
Great video, but over my head. I think studies are subjective with confusing intentions. Been cycling creatine monohydrate - now micronized since 1995 to present (29 years) with zero issues. Packed on 60 lbs (155-215) when bodybuilding, but now sustainable weight at +~40 lbs (185-195) for indoor/outdoor climbing & downhill skateboarding. 56 years old and cycle 6-8 weeks on, with a few weeks off-no more than 3-4 g every other day. I can still feel the strength, but also mental clarity when on it.
I started 5gr of creatine a day along with taurine-- and IMMEDIATELY noted trouble urinating, stopped up. I stopped and repeated and found exactly the same thing happening. Not a good sign.
I take 15g per week (each time I go to the gym). 21g to 35g seems like way too much considering I don't believe I ever had an issue with my kidneys.
Thats one of my reason why i dont take creatine... Kidney desease was scary my friend suffered at a young age... I think i need to consult a doctor 1st
Is there any way you can go over CO Q 10 and how it helps kidney function? I hear it does. Great video as always. Thanks bud!
Great Video as usual Thank you! for clarifying!!
I went through times of low blood creatinine. GFR stays around 110 though and in late 50's. I was exihibiting all the symptoms of low protein at that time. I had proteinuria with level two leaking in my twenties.
I've been using creatine for 6 months with no kidney issues. I might add I have a carnivore keto diet, intermittent fasting 20hours, no sugar, alcohol or drugs.
Been using it 5 years no problems
All I can say is that your thinking cap appears to have a very wide brim. Mine can be put on using only one hand using the bill of the cap.
Great video! The misinterpretation of ancillary data on patients that are muscular and supplement their diet with creatine results in many unneeded referrals to nephrology and additional unneeded testing. Worse, it prompts renal adjustments to medications impairing efficacy. Thank you for sharing this excellent video and your efforts to educate patients and those that care for them!
This video was right on time. I was looking at my numbers just last night and was getting worried, lol.
My GP also pointed out elevated creatinine levels, I suggested that it may come from my daily consumption of creatin, she replied, "no, we've measured creatinINE, not creatin." I am looking for a new GP now.
I started taking creatine just a month ago for the first time and had a periodic blood/lab work done (it’s mostly to control my cholesterol levels cuz they’re high) the result I received today (elevated creatinine) for the first time,, 6 months ago my creatinine value was just normal ! I am afraid of taking the supplement anymore besides I haven’t noticed any improvement in my athletic performance that I could thank creatin for 😢
Could you please make a video regarding Kre-Alkalyn Creatine? And to know if it truly has less side effects as it's claimed (speciafily on kidneys) ?
I think you should make the decision to take it or not after you get a blood test to check your kidney function. If you already dont have great kidney function probably not worth taking it
Creatinine is elevated when you do very hard weight training, so there’s probably a correlation of people who take creatine and do heavy weight training. I don’t know too many people who do Pilates and have a vegan diet and also take creatine
I've been on creatine for 900 years and only ever had diarrhea a few times but idk if that's the creatine or not
Stopping my creatine today to be on the safe side at 73rd yr.
Will be good to loose excess puffiness of water weight.
I consume a lot of red meat anyway.
Was taking creatine for 1 month and started to have left kidney pain when lying on the left side. Went to see the provider, tested, and eGRP accused stage 3a. Have no diabetes, no high BP, never eat junk, but just ovo-vegetarian meals, and plenty of H2O. I stopped creatine, but will reconsidered after corroborating tests show no problems…
Green veggies have oxalates and can cause kidney crystals.
well i started getting issues with my kidneys when i started creatine. I thought it was in my head. Stopped creatine, then started again. And my kidneys actually started to hurt and had frothy urine. So unfortunately, I'll never touch it again.
I heard that creatine help with bone density so I went to GNC to get some creatine and I spoke with the customer service lady and she told me that right now there's a lot of buzz going around creatine but it won't help your bone density and it can mess up your kidneys if you're not careful , she told me what to take instead for bones,, I also asked my doctor if I should take creatine for my bone density and she also said not a good idea, she didn't want her own son taking creatine for fear of kidney issues but she also told me it won't help bone density
Maybe they were misled by the case studies presented here.
The gnc lady needs to be fired. She should have said yeah take all that, buy here.
@@orandachildren1051 why fired?
She was a retired athlete she told me a little bit about her history she said she's tried everything all different types of sports supplements and she said based on what I was looking for creatine wasn't going to be good for me especially since I don't like drinking water all day , she emphasize that you have to drink lots and lots of water if you're on creatine but I just can't do that , I hate drinking water I can't force myself to drink it all day,, my doctor said she was researching creatine for her son and she said because of the health risks she didn't want her son taking it and she didn't feel it was going to be good for me there's better things for helping my bone density that won't risk my kidneys
Just watched same kind of video with leading doctor and expert on creatine and he said it doesn't cause kidney problems or hair loss so I'll go with him he has more experience on this subject than any other so called expert
Such a good video!! Thanks for uploading
Just awesome... what a great channel!
Thank you so much!
Over the past 5-7 years, I've posted all my blood work numbers in a spreadsheet. I'm glad I did. I can see the numbers and direction of all my readings. It only takes a few minutes per report.
If you are getting kidneys tested consider a Cystatin C test. It is an alternate kidney function test that isn't skewed by creatine use, being muscular, or working out a lot.
Really helpful
So what are the risks connected to elevated creatinine levels for 15 years?
Cystatin c is a far better marker to evaluate kidney fxn.
Wow, great stuff dude! Thanks.
Also depends on the type of creatine you take. There is some real rubbish ones out there and don’t double the doses stick to 3 grams a day and no issue.
I LOVE CREATINE BUT I CANT TAKE IT !! IF I TAKE 750 MG ONE PIL ALKALINE CREATINE AFTHER 15 MIN I HAVE PAIN IN MY LOWER BACK !! AND ITS THERE FOR 2 HOURS !! SOO I CANT TAKE IT ! I TRY ALL TIPES !!! GOOD VIDEO !!
I get on and off creatine 5grams… always messes my lower back/kidneys I tried micro dosing 2 grams a day but still the pain comes back… so I stopped taking it and I’m ok now😓
My doc told me to quit straight up. Is it me or does it seem like the old school docs are resistant to new research based evidence?
Not just you. Nope. The old guard is going down. They don’t like it.
This was a very informative and humorous video. Thanks Nick!