MK7 Golf 1.8T Dyno Comparison, Stock vs Stage 1 vs IS20 Turbo upgrade with APR Software
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2020
- We compare a stock Gen 3 MQB Golf 1.8T TSI to APR's Stage 1 software, then upgrade to an IS20 GTI turbo and show results for each stage. We do our best to keep everything consistent, and do multiple runs in each stage to get a good data to compare. The numbers are great on this Gen3 1.8t and is definitely quite the sleeper with the GTI Turbo upgrade.
Engine mods consist of:
APR IS20 Software (91oct)
OEM IS20 Turbo
CTS Downpipe
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163 / 191 - Stock 1:45
216 / 272 - Stage 1 91oct 3:38
265 / 302 - IS20 + CTS DP + 91oct Tune 7:14
Nice improvement!
Thanks for that. :)
It is possible a IS38 swap ? How much more power it will make?
@@elstudiocustomtattoos8188 Yep, but you really need the downpipe & intercooler upgrade for that. Often also you really want a 93 oct tune.
I think most people are seeing in the 325/310 range (adjusting numbers for the results in this video) with that set up. It likes high rpm much more than the smaller turbos.
Also just an fyi, these 1.8s have weak rods, upgrade the rods if possible. Pistons too. And mideswell can shaft. You can go IS38 and a better tune, 400hp-450hp
Aren't stock crank numbers 170/184? Maybe vw underrated it?
That’s nuts.... a tune gets you 80+ lbfts but a bigger turbo and downpipe it only brings another 30ftlbs
Excellent video man. Great info and the breakdown is what I'm always looking for in mod comparison videos.
Much appreciated, glad you like 👍
When you ramble on it's cool... I got a 2016 GSW so this was definitely top quality information.
Much appreciated. Glad you enjoyed.
Great information I like the fact that you explained the correction factors this whole subject is a whirlwind of information.
Glad you like.
It's awesome to see someone local showing things like this. Subscribed
Thanks! We appreciate the comment and sub!
@@COMotorsports is this in Australia or?
@@alfaganstha no mate. Lol
Happy to have found this video
Glad you enjoyed
Great video guys. Just had the apr stage one tune done on my completely stock 2018 base golf. With 29000km on it. 93 is available here in Barrie Ontario. Unbelievable difference. My first car was 79 rabbit GTI. Second was 90 8 valve GTI. Love the mk1 and Corrado vids, keep it going!
Smart upgrade, definitely totally different car for sure. 👍
Nice! I have an '18 TSI as well with 38,000km and out here in Vancouver we have 94 octane. I'm torn between Unitronic and APR, or a JB4 piggyback ECU.
I'm on the stock clutch and I don't want to roast the shit out of it.. yet lol
Putting this out there. 16 base 1.8 at 71k no issues
@@Sam-nv3mv How many miles on the tune? I want to go stage 1 but I’m not quite ready to do a clutch.
LOVE IT
Yes please.
I have the full gti exhaust and full racingline intake parts like all of them and stage 2!
do you know what the output would be with the stage 1 and downpipe?
He's going to surprise a few folks, especially with the 100% stock Golf appearance. I dig it. Even with minimal peak gains, my experience with upgrades like this is the fatness of the band throughout and all the useable power. I'd love to have seen more discussion on the comparison of where each setup makes power and for how long through the range it holds it.
The gains aren't minimal at all. Also is you want a good comparison check out APRs website. They have a graph for pretty much every mod and software, both in whp and crank HP.
Was it stage 1 apr still with the is20 and cts dp?
Its too bad they stopped using the 20v. Those engines are pretty damn fun.
no upgraded FMIC recommended for is20 upgrade on the 1.8 ?
Now put an intake, intercooler, charge pipes and a stage 3 tune with that IS20 and show the gains
Gotta love VW for cheap power upgrades on the base model. Impressive regardless.
Yeah definitely cheap power to be had out of this engine. With the IS38 its' even better results.
Is the stock manual transmission on the 1.8T able to handle the increased torque on a stage 1 tune? Or would it require an upgraded clutch.
Transmissions fine, clutch is typically in the future.
Very cool video, I subscribed! I have a 15 Golf Launch edition with the APR stage 1 and just a Borla ( saves almost 30 pounds) and an Injen CAI that was on it when I bought it. With the V1.3 93 flash upgrade it’s stupid quick for no more than what it is.
My question is, since the 1.8T is available in a lot of VW platforms from a golf to a Passat/CC ( which is probably 350 pounds heavier) wouldn’t there be a little more room to tune on a lighter golf as far as the APR tune is configured? Or at least it seems the lighter chassis might not be as 93 octane dependent for normal day to day driving. I run 91 ( 93/87 blend) in the winter months with zero issues
The engine's capabilities (fueling, hardware, turbo etc), not the chassis. The engine doesn't care what it's attached to... it just' slower to move it. :)
@@COMotorsports not necessarily tho I would say it’s like if you were setting cam timing, boost and fuel management for an engine in a 2900 pound manual trans car could be more aggressive ( in terms of how soon it can come in) compared to the tune that could go into a writing a map for a 3500 pound Passat or CC sedan. I guess tuning on a chassis dyno is more like steady or static loading, there’s not really a way to dynamically load the motor to simulate/compensate the weight and also aerodynamic load from a standing start through top speed as though you’re running down a dragstrip. If you were track tuning those 2 different maps I’m sure you’d agree you could further optimize the ( baseline or Stage) map for the lighter car…that’s all I’m saying….it ( the retail product) has to be a one size fits all….to some extent
@@wizerulz yes of course, however not something I'm going to go into great detail about in the comments section. The dyno is just a tool, generally why we take the car out on the road afterwards to make sure all is good for. The car would have to be substantially different in weight to notice much off a difference if the engines were the same.
@@COMotorsports of course thanks a bunch for the response!!
Back in 2006 PCMofNC ( big into LS tuning) used my Trailblazer SS as the baseline Stage 1 tune for their retail Map. It was kinda fun learning about writing for the motor and trans on the mapping on the ride along. I’ve built V8 muscle car motors mostly, over the past 40 years but these VW engines and the old 4G63 Mitsubishi motors are really impressive.
@@wizerulz no problem. Thanks for following along. Wait to you see what we did with this junk 18hoopt. Lol
Is their DSG tune worth it?
Does the is20 use the same parts (gaskets etc.) for fitment? Or do I require a complete new fitting kit? I’m looking for a pre-owned one and they dont come with any extra fitting parts
All the same
Isn' t there a stage 2 tune with the is20 turbo for the 1.8t to get the max power out of the turbo? The stage 1 tune for the IS12 was pretty impressive without any add ons.
The tune that was run on the car is the IS20 tune for the upgraded downpipe, exactly what you're mentioning.
I know it's been a few months, but do you recall which octane fuel you were running on your stock pull?
Thanks for the video, getting one of these cars tomorrow! One interesting thing to note from a forum member, he ran the apr 87 tune and he could feel by the "seat of his pants" that the 87 felt felt a lot better on 91 octane, which he later verified through some logging that there were changes when ran on 91. I have a suspicion the apr 87 octane tune is the same as the 91 tune since the variation in output between the two is 6hp and 12ft-lbs. This subtle difference in peek power between using 87 and 91 is seen on other cars such as fords Ecoboost, notably the 2.0L in the focus ST which has a lot of information out there showing similar minor differences between peek power output between 87 and 91. What are your thoughts?
This was 91oct. Remember there's two ways to reduce/increase power output. More or less timing, and more or less boost. Although it's likely just timing is the difference between the two files, one may also have less timing more boost to keep the closer. I've never compared so I can't say for sure.
@@COMotorsports Thanks for getting back to me! I wonder if the reason why VW held back so much on power on the 1.8 tsi is because of safety and reliability reasons or because if a TSI was making 220hp and 270ft-lbs, no one would buy the gti!
@@22chachalaca the latter for sure. I mean they got rid of the 1.8t already.
@@22chachalaca on that note, the Alltrack is much cheaper than the R, and for still much cheaper than the R you can achieve the same output. Now they’ve killed it and have the Taos instead which only has the 1.5
By gti exhaust i mean full exhaust and single cat downpipe
How hard is it to swap the turbo? I been looking into a golf since is20 turbos are everywhere since the GTI people go is38.
They're all the same turbo basically so no different then swapping out the stock IS12.
Is the 1.8t's IC the same as the 2.0s? On my GTI I found even at stage 1 power levels (280ish whp) my stock IC heat soaked after one run! Sounds like you did a lot of runs, did you allow the IC to cool off completely between runs?
Golf and GTI share same IC, R's 5mm thicker. The most power we've seen on MK7' with stock turbo's (no matter which one) have all been with upgraded IC's.
@@COMotorsports My FMIC was a must have upgrade, I put down 325whp and I have a Vortex std on the way!
Hey so I have the same exact drivetrain just in a Jetta and my question to you is it possible to swap a 6 speed trans in from a gli or gti does it bolt up to the bell housing and if so would it be a direct plug and play or would I need to swap other parts like cv axels ect asking this because I believe my clucth is starting to go out and it would make the most sense to do that now asking because I honestly hate the transmission in the car now gear ratios are way to long and I find myself in between up shifts with the clucth to the floor watching the tach waiting for the revs to come down so I can actually shift smoothly never mind trying to shift fast also if I were to put a aftermarket clucth in like south bend would it fix or help it at least I know I asked you a ton of stuff but a response would be greatly appreciated because there little to now info on this drivetrain and I spent a lot of money on the car to hate the way it drives and i feel screwed and stuck thanks
Great video, first off, my question is how much power can a Mk7 1.8t auto transmission handle. Should I stick with just the is12 with stage 1 or can I go with the is20? I know is38 is most likely out of the question. And also can a transmission cooler help out any. Thanks...
Done plenty of is20s on these. Stock trans comes down to what it's used for and what tires are on it. We have plenty of mk4s with 02Js running 400+whp on stock trans. Some last some don't....all comes down to things listed above.
@@COMotorsports it going to be a daily driver, with a little go basically. I don’t have a lead foot , truth be told, I getting up there n age and are having problems with my feet, and that’s the reason I’m going with an automatic instead of a manual transmission. I love driving manual but feet hurt with having to use clutch. So you saying stock tiptronic transmission can handle is20 and is38. Thanks, that’s great news for me. Like I said I not a lead foot driver, maybe every blue moon I my get on it.
@@dkdk1family oh you said auto. Honestly don't know with that one. Definitely stronger then the old autos but haven't done a turbo upgrade on the auto 18ts. Only stage 2 stock turbo.
@@COMotorsports what do tires have to do with how long a transmission lasts for?
@@22chachalaca if you have sticky tires with lots of grip it will be ready harder on the drivetrain. No traction means it's spinning freely without strain.
I'm thinking of stage 1 tuning my golf 1.8t, APR seems like the safest choice, but $500 seems a little expensive for the software. are there any more wallet friendly options you would suggest for tuning? or do you think that the best reliable option is APR?
Even at 500 it will be the cheapest and best bang for the buck mod you'll ever do.... So why cheap out?
@@COMotorsports Thanks, ill 100% consider. seems like a pretty good deal for that much horsepower
Very worth it. I did stage 1 and just the 87 octane file on mine and it feels like a whole new car. It really is worth it. Apr is the cheapest also. Ive done APR on two different cars.
Nice upgrade! Approximately what was the cost for the turbo, software and install?
All depends on current mods, new or used turbo, which software you go with and labor rate at your local shop etc.
That's a big increase, how much does it cost to add stage 1?
$499 USD
I had no idea the 16v 1.8T could make that kind of power with so little effort and while retaining an OEM-looking engine bay. I remember waaaaay back in the day, APR's Stage 3 for the 20v 1.8T put down that kind of power, except the kit cost $5k (over $7k now adjusted for inflation). Seems like a 16v 1.8T with IS20 and 3" downpipe would smoke a 20v 1.8T with K04 and 3" downpipe.
It can make even more with the is38 golf r turbo. Very similar numbers to a tuned 7R.
These engines have pretty much the same potential as the mk7 gti/mk7 R 2.0tsi with the equivalent turbos swapped in.
@@WaseemKhan-iu4bh what are the differences between the 1.8t and The 2.0
@@plshelp2906 pretty much all the same except for the forged crankshaft on the 2.0 and longer stroke.
There’s a lot of memes about people who bought mk6’s right before the mk7 came out, how a stage 1 mk7 dominates a stage 3 mk6
Hi, a have the same car, i am very interested in upgrading my turbo, but dont know if i should go for the is20 or the is38.. can you help me? How much is the difference ? I have a manual transmission.. thx :)
They basically cost the same dollar wise between the two. But it's recommended that you go with an upgraded IC if you do the IS38.
CO Motorsports thx :)
Can the automatic tsi handle a stage 1?? No supporting mods.
Do them all the time.
Hi CO motorsports,
I hope you are doing fine. I have a question please.
I do have a golf mk7.5 1.8 TSI Automatic transmission.
i am about to do an upgrade as follows:
1- Adding IS20 turbo
2-replacing downpipe
3-replacing exhaust system
4-replacing intercooler
5-Making octane programming.
my questions are:
1-Do you think this upgrade is gonna be harmful form my engine and transmission?
2-Do i have to replace spark plugs and HPHT? or keep the stock one?
3-Do i have to change my air intake? or keep the stock?
You answer will be highly appreciated
We've done lots of IS20 1.8Ts. None on Autos. Plugs will depend on how aggressive the tune is. Intake is personal preference, but more sound and potentially more power can be had.
Hi@@COMotorsports what do you mean about None on Autos?
also what do you mean by how aggressive is the tune?
you reply is appreciated.
@@Haitham.jalal90 We have not done IS20 turbo upgrades on Automatics, only Manuals so I can't speak much on reliability as I have no first had experience doing that upgrade on an Automatic.
@@COMotorsports oh i got you now. then i will wait until you do the IS20 on Auto then decide :)
Can I have the link of the stage 1, there’s 3 different models on the website
APRs website is easy to navigate. Just choose your year make and model, and select software.
Awesome video I want to find a shop thats willing to put a is20 setup on my mk7 1.4t
You'll be looking for a while.
@@COMotorsports not unless you guys wanna be the first ones im leaving to Korea for a year so you guys can have the car while I'm gone and just build it
Lol
I dont believe the is20 will work on that 1.4t this 1.8t is the ea888 gen 3 engine which is the same engine as the 2.0 in the mk7 gti and mk7R
@@WaseemKhan-iu4bh I’ve always wondered what the difference is lol, so, how is it the same engine if one is 1.8t and the other is 2.0t ? What do they add to make it 2.0t
How much are the IS38 1.8t making? 300?
A bit less then a tuned MK7R. Haven't had one on the dyno yet, but I'd suspect around 300-310whp on 91oct.
So the stage 1 was a whole new ECU, or was it just a tune?
These are always reflashes (not a new ECU). The ECU you see in pictures on websites is just a stock photo. If they came with an actual ECU as well, tunes would literally be thousands of dollars more.
I just bought one of these , How much overall is the cost on the stage one , and then how much cost on a stage one and the is20 turbo with downpipe
Would depend where you're located. Software pricing varies between countries.
stage one was $600 cause i went with apr but the place i went to also does dyno tuning for around same price
Have you tryit tuning the 1.0 tsi 3 cylinder engine?
I don't believe we have that engine here in anything.
CO Motorsports Golf is the smallest car Vw sells in the US ?
Yes, smallest engine we have currently is the 1.4.
Awesome video!! I have a 1.8 MK7 and don’t know what route to go. I think is20 is def worth it. Anybody done is38? How does power compare?
IS38 puts out very similar (just a bit less) to a tuned MK7R, Very good upgrade.
@@COMotorsports how reliably tho?
@@jnd227 we have guys running these for years now.
@@COMotorsports oh damn. might gotta look into this then i’ve always heard some people had detonation problems
How do you turn traction off so it doesn’t intervene with this much power?
Just through the headunit/stereo. Just select vehicle and it's in there to disable it.
CO Motorsports thanks, was aware of that option but wasn’t sure if it was enough of a disable to prevent it from intervening too much and cutting power. I know a lot of people are using OBDeleven to disable it further.
Good info, nice to see the numbers are close to as advertised. I’m curious what the 0-60 comes out to with the different stages. I managed 5.5 seconds on an Integrated Engineering stage 1 tune. IE advertises lower HP but higher torque than the APR numbers, 217 HP and 301 ft-lbs for a stage 1 91 octane tune.
ruclips.net/video/EkyKvMvn5zU/видео.html
My run
Can you do a test with the neuspeed power module on the 1.8t on the 7psi switch ? And would it be okay to use a is20 with neuspeed on 7psi
We don't use them for a few reasons, but if you'd like to send us one we'll try it out and do some real world comparisons for you.
@@COMotorsports would you really ? I do have an extra module for the mk7 that I could ship out
@@briansantos4637 we have a couple 1.8t we could try it on.
@@COMotorsports ok how can I ship or where to
@@briansantos4637 go to our website and scroll to the bottom. If you do ship it, just drop us an email so we know it's coming and from who.
IS there APR soft for 1.8 gen 3 with IS20 turbo??? When does APR did it? We have to use JB4 on apr stage 1 with that turbo
Yes
@@COMotorsports There are 3 kind of ECU soft on goapr site fo 1.8 gen 3 engine - first one have stage 1,2 and 3 based on is20 and is38, but other 2 have only stage 1 and 2. Can you explain what is the difference? May be first on is for USA made cars, and the other 2 - for Europe market and has different ECU?
@@user-go2by4ji2x best to reach out to APR with your ECU code to confirm what's available.
@@COMotorsports We have Jetta and Passat SEL 1.8 tsi both. I guess ECU are the same with that Golf in the video?
@@user-go2by4ji2x there are lots of different ECU, contact APR if you're unsure what's available for your ECU.
Also its a 93 tune
I have a stage 1 2017 mk7 1.8t golf I have the downpipe waiting to get installed to go IE stage 2 will I have any problems with the 6 speed automatic tiptronic? I can't find much info on the non dsg transmissions
It's weird that you only got 163whp. APR has 190 on their website. VAG is claiming 170 ish
You need to understand the difference between WHP and crank HP. 163whp is actually more than 170 crank HP.
Is the downpipe catted or no?
Upgraded downpipe is high flow catted.
How many psi? Thank you
No clue.
My passat would blow up if you dyno it. Old girl, still gets around good though. I just take it easy on her.
If it’s high mileage make sure you get a carbon cleaning. You can recover a good number of lost ponies if your intake valves passages are clogged up.
If I just did an IS20 turbo swap would I need just the APR stage 1 tune?
100% need a proper tune.
@@COMotorsports ok perfect so no stage 2 or anything it just adapts to your mods
@@JAG1395 no you misunderstood. I meant yes 100% you need a tune.
@@COMotorsports Sorry what I meant was APR stage 1 is good enough for an IS20 turbo upgrade or I need a specific tune for the IS20 turbo because a few tuning shops near where I live said I need stage 2 or even stage 3
@@JAG1395 you need specific IS20 software for the 1.8t. Your regular stage 1 tune will not suffice.
How realible will be 1.8tsi ea888gen 3 engine with is20...i want to is20swap but i have done 90k miles...25k miles on apr stage 1...should i be worried aboth engine btw...engine is in perfect condition
We've done quite a few of these. Just make sure your running good fuel, and don't lug on the engine if it's manual. Which is easy to do on these since they have such long gears.
@@COMotorsports what mean by lug....as i saw they are good with over 360 370hp...320 as i want will be probably goos for daily driving
@@markodimitrovski8616 Google "lug an engine".
It will make issue for the engine?
Do them all the time.
@@COMotorsports can i know how much it will cost ?
@@karwansaleh419 drop us an email and we can work out the necessary items required for your build.
how much boost psi?
Didn't log it, but that info should be readily available out there.
@@COMotorsports 15ish
Why 91 vs 93?
Simple, we do not have 93 here.
Put 100 octane in it and you get 300 horses
As a MK7 GTI owner this makes me very angry lol
Lol, I know I know. But you have nicer seats. 😉
@@COMotorsports my Highline has the exact same seats as a GTi!
can that car pop like the gti?
Pop?
@@COMotorsports like is there a crackle tune option?
@@urdad84 Depends on the car, engine, and software. For this one no, not with any of the major providers we offer.
Crackle tunes are for children