Guilty verdicts for all: What lessons from France's Mazan mass rape trial? • FRANCE 24 English

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  • Опубликовано: 23 дек 2024

Комментарии • 149

  • @julie.1081
    @julie.1081 4 дня назад +96

    I love her strength & how she said the shame goes to those men not her. There's no reason any woman should feel any type of shame in a case like this. It's a very outdated way of thinking.

    • @Michelle-hy2ic
      @Michelle-hy2ic 2 дня назад

      While it’s true, many women also victimblame many rape victims. The change of men must start from their upbringing, from both of their parents.

  • @shawndaniels-lr8mx
    @shawndaniels-lr8mx 4 дня назад +82

    51 men in a 40 mile radius ??? SICK WORLD

    • @Jenny-nz8fb
      @Jenny-nz8fb 4 дня назад +29

      There’s another 30 that haven’t been identified.

    • @kittykatz4001
      @kittykatz4001 4 дня назад +2

      It was more like 90 men, but they located 50 men to arrest, charge, etc.
      Further, of the 90 men who did “show up” to participate, and did, only 3 had a “change of heart,” and refused to “participate.”
      Zero men “reported” what was going on, though.
      And to think women gestate and give birth to such creatures…

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад +6

      I’m not surprised, I am aware of this for a long time

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад +1

      I always tell men what they say is not appropriate and I always protect myself, don’t go to their places and have my boundaries very clear, for them, I’m the problem

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад +5

      Yes. Her village of Mazan is a 4.5 mile diameter, or 2.25 mi radius, with 6,270 people, or ~3,135 men. I dont know how many in that 50 mile radius.

  • @tinacross2390
    @tinacross2390 4 дня назад +72

    There needs to be a clear line drawn. Unless someone gives actual consent- then it is either sexual assault or if the sex act is performed - then it is rape. This should be taught in all secondary schools. France needs to educate their children. The sentencing is far too lenient- these perpetrators have actually gone on to do the same assault on their own wives and partners. It’s horrendous

    • @r8chlletters
      @r8chlletters 4 дня назад +26

      Rape is not a sex act it’s an act of violence.

    • @sharonsekhon9475
      @sharonsekhon9475 4 дня назад

      It is taught through the Golden Rule. However, when society teaches men that women are not human, we are doomed.

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад +4

      I totally agree, it must be taught in school!!! ASAP

    • @SylvanFosters
      @SylvanFosters 4 дня назад +14

      I think we can teach kids that they have ownership over their own bodies and they do not have ownership over anyone else’s. We can teach them that even if they get married, although some decisions may be made together, one can never make a decision about the other’s body if the other is not involved in making that decision. These basic concepts can even be taught in elementary school.

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад

      Yes. A person must say yes to every step in sex. A drunk, drugged, asleep, or unconscious person cannot do so.

  • @nightowl6260
    @nightowl6260 4 дня назад +80

    The medical community also failed her.

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад +7

      True

    • @Alex.1765
      @Alex.1765 4 дня назад +3

      You get these drugs on the dark net

    • @katherineparis8208
      @katherineparis8208 4 дня назад

      @@Alex.1765from information I read, her husband used a prescription medication of his own to drug her. He used 3 to 10 times the prescribed amount and surreptitiously mixed it into her food or drink. She suffered memory loss and other terrifying symptoms; she feared she had a brain tumor or Alzheimer’s. He drove her to appointments with doctors and encouraged her belief that she was ill.

    • @marciloni12
      @marciloni12 3 дня назад

      ​@@Alex.1765One of the rapists sold drugs on that website, so there you go. But, I think, a good doctor, that cares for women, should investigate further, if the patient experiences same symptoms for so long!!!😮😢

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад +11

      @@Alex.1765 But he did not. He got them legally, though doctors - who did not bother to think past the surface.

  • @KimberlyCook-j3o
    @KimberlyCook-j3o 4 дня назад +38

    Why isn’t the rapists photos posted? She was a victim and you show her but not the men? Do they have more rights?

    • @georgewashington3555
      @georgewashington3555 4 дня назад +8

      exactly

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад +19

      yes. now that theyre convicted, where are their photos??

    • @Alex.1765
      @Alex.1765 4 дня назад +7

      They are hidding themselves. Also not seeing them here does not mean they have not been photographed or filmed.

    • @nevadatan7323
      @nevadatan7323 4 дня назад

      ​Check the court documents and do research to avoid mis-identification
      But no, it shouldn't be like this. Not once they are convicted.
      ​@@plant495

  • @CC-uq4hu
    @CC-uq4hu 4 дня назад +40

    The shame is on those men AND all those who knew and did nothing

    • @MTMF.london
      @MTMF.london 4 дня назад +15

      And those defence lawyers who tried to besmirch Giselle's character and apportion blame on her during cross examination in court.

    • @CC-uq4hu
      @CC-uq4hu 4 дня назад +5

      @ exactly

  • @monicac9643
    @monicac9643 4 дня назад +33

    In Singapore, caning is a form of corporal punishment. I never understood what level of crime warranted such extend of punishment. Now I do! Dominique Pelicot shud be thankful he only got 20 yrs. The judicial system shud have made an example of him - 1 yr for each rape! Where is the justice?!

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад +6

      I dont believe in corporal punishment, but he shouldn't be let out. Too dangerous.

  • @nightowl6260
    @nightowl6260 4 дня назад +46

    Why wasn't he also indicted for human trafficing ?

    • @Maybe-cg2tn
      @Maybe-cg2tn 4 дня назад +17

      Attempted murder for the drugging. She could have died.

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад

      @@Maybe-cg2tn Oh, that's so true!

    • @katherineparis8208
      @katherineparis8208 Час назад

      @@nightowl6260 Is the poisoning of his wife not also considered a crime? He drugged her to the point of unconsciousness repeatedly without her knowledge or consent, leading to significant health problems! They had evidence of what medication(s) he used, and he even coached another man on how to do the same to his own wife! I agree, s*x trafficking or conspiracy to commit human trafficking should also have at least been charged; even if the prosecution believed they couldn’t get a conviction from a french court.

  • @connieo5382
    @connieo5382 4 дня назад +21

    Then the judge , the media, the lawyers, the legislators, the male spectators not present all identify with the criminals and not the victim... that's the hardest challenge for our society.

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад +5

      so well said. ty!

  • @plant495
    @plant495 4 дня назад +16

    Now that these 51 men are convicted, where are their photos??

    • @AC-le1jt
      @AC-le1jt 4 дня назад

      yes! women should know which men to avoid. why is their privacy being protected?

  • @georgiacompton7427
    @georgiacompton7427 4 дня назад +22

    Listening, what hit me is the fact of the misogyinism of the modern world.

    • @nevadatan7323
      @nevadatan7323 4 дня назад +3

      It's hardwired and subconcious part of millenia of our existence, including the modern day.

    • @samanthajayewardene4523
      @samanthajayewardene4523 День назад +2

      It never changed. It's always been like that.

  • @Rx-Needles
    @Rx-Needles 4 дня назад +26

    Clara’s comments are interesting- did those that acknowledged their wrongdoing get less time than those who refused. Now can we see their faces?

    • @MTMF.london
      @MTMF.london 4 дня назад +7

      I think when the news media report the case in full afterwards, they will now be able to name and post the photos of all those found guilty.

    • @mariacuachon3906
      @mariacuachon3906 3 дня назад +1

      These criminals will say anything (lies) to weasel out of their responsibility. Wake up people connect with your God🙏

    • @samanthajayewardene4523
      @samanthajayewardene4523 День назад

      @@mariacuachon3906 Fu)# off. No one wants to here your religious claptrap.

  • @joerudnik9290
    @joerudnik9290 4 дня назад +33

    Women need to protect each other. Society needs to protect women and children.😡🇺🇸😳🤨

    • @nevadatan7323
      @nevadatan7323 4 дня назад +10

      MALES NEED TO HOLD OTHER MALES TO ACCOUNT IN THEIR DEVIANCE.

    • @nevadatan7323
      @nevadatan7323 4 дня назад

      This isn't a women's issue when women don't have a voice to start with.
      Put the impetus back on these dysfunctional men.
      Take your own personal self accountability.
      Then go heal other women and teach each other how to raise their children healthily.

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад +1

      More than that, men need to GROW UP.

  • @tmoleary7179
    @tmoleary7179 4 дня назад +10

    empathy must be taught to men in France and everywhere.

    • @katherineparis8208
      @katherineparis8208 4 дня назад +1

      I traveled in France earlier this year, and it’s a lovely country. However it’s the only country in Europe where I’ve ever had “scammers” put hands on me. It happened on two separate occasions, and I literally had to have bystanders help me extricate myself from the situations. Not once, in any other country I have traveled, have I had people put their hands on me like that! It was very disheartening, and I hope it is not indicative of France as a whole and only of the particular people I encountered. Thankfully the bystanders assisted me; that tells me there are certainly many good people who recognize when women are danger and are willing to help.

    • @nevadatan7323
      @nevadatan7323 3 дня назад

      This behaviour is pathological
      We need to stop people drowning by preventing people from falling into the river upstream
      We need global outroll of parenting classes.
      We have DECADES of evidence proving how poor parenting, passed on from parent to parent generationally
      can create all these maladaptive behaviours.
      And the causes can be -so- subtle, in ways you'd never conceive.
      After all trauma is not only the event but the PERCEPTION of the event.
      It's the blueprint for everything, s*×ual deviance, misogyny, codependency, abuse, perfectionism, addiction.....
      Everything.
      We need to play serious catch up with the exponential rate of technology, society and the internet, and its harmful affects 😐

    • @laetitiavisagie-gg6kk
      @laetitiavisagie-gg6kk 2 дня назад

      And men in a so-called civilized first world country do not know they should not rape any woman, awake or asleep ?

  • @maryannecomment3302
    @maryannecomment3302 4 дня назад +9

    I think these men should not only be convicted of rape, but also of putting someone's life in danger by drugging her and giving her infections (one of these men even had AIDS!). The husband forbade the use of condoms!!!! How evil can one be? These men agreed with this condition, even though they had infections (like one had AIDS!). Luckily, Gisele did not get aids, but she got other infections. It is not only the psychological harm, but also the harm to her health and the fact that she could die of an overdose or an infection. Yes, they should add consent in the law, but I also agree that this would not fix everything.

  • @SylvanFosters
    @SylvanFosters 4 дня назад +8

    It’s clear that Clara Le Gallic-Ach and Choralyne DUMESNIL followed the trial much more closely than the guy seated at the middle of the table. I’m glad that when he attempted to “correct” what she was saying about those men and empathy (because he didn’t follow the trial closely enough to know what a complete lack of shame these men showed, both inside and outside the courtroom), that the two guests who are more knowledgeable than he continued with what they were saying rather than letting his disruption derail what was being said.

    • @plant495
      @plant495 4 дня назад +2

      yes. why weren't they, or another woman, leading the discussion. cringe.

    • @brightonbabe2139
      @brightonbabe2139 4 дня назад

      We need to engage men in this discussion.

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад

      I also think that he is being passive in order to allow the women to dominate.

  • @Veve7
    @Veve7 4 дня назад +10

    South Africa is worse. Fortunately our lawmakers have changed the Sexual Offences Act to include consent, which gives victims a chance to litigate. People who do these things to others are definitely on the malignant narcissistic range.

  • @naheedbano8105
    @naheedbano8105 3 дня назад +5

    The security guard should be given highest french award

    • @twolegsnotail
      @twolegsnotail 3 дня назад +1

      Absolutely true, without M. Thibaud Rey this sordid, grotesque and brutally cruel crime would have gone undiscovered.

  • @monicac9643
    @monicac9643 4 дня назад +7

    Can other victims take Dominique Pelicot to court and try to add another 20yrs?

  • @georgiacompton7427
    @georgiacompton7427 4 дня назад +8

    The reference to myths and children's stories such as 'Sleeping Beauty' and 'Cinderella' were eye opening for me.

  • @rosalynmoyle3766
    @rosalynmoyle3766 4 дня назад +8

    The defence lawyer should be sentenced as well, at the min counselled. His defence was not a defence. There really was none but he chose the most disgusting way to defend the clients now appropriately found guilty.

    • @zumazuma568
      @zumazuma568 2 дня назад

      The lawyer did her job, it's not wrong to provide defense when the full power of the state is behind the prosecution. Lawyers don't have to argue innocence, they can work to get a better deal for the client. Less prison time, or other options.

    • @rosalynmoyle3766
      @rosalynmoyle3766 2 дня назад +3

      @zumazuma568 There are a number of ways to get a better deal. Saying a drugged woman or implying one asked to be raped I is not one of them. To me it also demonstrated an ignorance of the act of rape. I don't care who is the prosecutor, there was a ton of evidence supplied on her husband's phone for starters. Yes they were entitled to a defense. But not the slut shaming asked for it form of defence. I hope no defence lawyer is okay with that. Do 87 yr Olds ask for it when attacked while sleeping? Do 3yr Olds ask for it. This abhorrent form of defence has to go. It's disgusting and foul.

  • @simmsdiana9041
    @simmsdiana9041 4 дня назад +7

    Amazing debate. Thanks to all for you.

  • @RareKiddo
    @RareKiddo 4 дня назад +5

    😢 between Porn and Tate and high misogyny. The only thing that can protect women is a man’s character, this needs to be taught at a young age. Shame on them all, there was no defence for this.

  • @Dr.LeenaShimpi
    @Dr.LeenaShimpi 4 дня назад +8

    When it comes to consent, it is also essential that the female be in her full senses, not intoxicated.
    Which is a major problem in europen countries, as drinking is soo common.

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад

      No, the major problem is men taking advantage of drunk women.

  • @AuroraLupetti
    @AuroraLupetti День назад +2

    I lived in France as a young American woman attending school there. I found the men to be absolutely horrible towards women, aggressive and entitled. This was many years ago and it is sad to learn nothing has changed.

  • @elendilnz
    @elendilnz 4 дня назад +9

    Empathy is actually learned, if fostered, at a very young age. After that… maybe not.

  • @Alex.1765
    @Alex.1765 4 дня назад +5

    2 years for a rape??? You're kidding???

  • @jn8922
    @jn8922 3 дня назад +4

    Gisele Pelicot is a heroine. She's truly a strong, brave woman. I admire her so much. Gisele Pelicot is the example the world needs. I remember how during metoo some of the Hollywood actresses refused to name their abusers...and in doing that, they allowed the abuser to go on to abuse other women. But Gisele stood there in dignity and like a superhero stood up and faced those men and held them accountable. Thank you Gisele. You are my hero.

  • @sarahdickins5010
    @sarahdickins5010 4 дня назад +13

    We need to teach empathy. Empathy is an action and a choice, as well as a reaction. Makes me want to start meditating again...

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад +2

      Yeah, respect and boundaries in school, ASAP

    • @Dorr234
      @Dorr234 4 дня назад

      I am surrounded by men in the dance atmosphere and many say very disgusting and inappropriate comments to me, I call them out and tell them I don’t accept that and they attack me. This is way too common!!!

    • @natgus1
      @natgus1 День назад

      Empathy cannot be taught, but respect can.

  • @21stcenturyshowgirl
    @21stcenturyshowgirl 4 дня назад +6

    This also happens in australia.

  • @plant495
    @plant495 4 дня назад +4

    24:00 what is the organization she works for? And how can we get their list of 140 proposals to end sexual violence against women? That would be a helpful list for feminists to work with everywhere.

  • @jessicamorales2555
    @jessicamorales2555 4 дня назад +4

    Great analysis

  • @daymoon9n84w
    @daymoon9n84w День назад +1

    Why do almost all headlines focus on her husband’s 20-year sentence while ignoring the slap on the wrist the other rapists received? My nerves are shattering at the mockery of the justice system! Most of them got 6 to 8 years and will likely be out in 4.

  • @gpcheng87
    @gpcheng87 4 дня назад +3

    no offense to the the host, but probably should have had a female moderator or at least one male guest. a little on the nose to have a conversation about men controlling women and a male moderating a completely female panel. 🤷‍♀a male guest would have also helped make the point that this is (as Sarah said) a men's issue. did not like how he inadvertently pitted Choralyne and Sarah against each other and how he only continued to interrupt Clara (who seemed the least comfortable with English of the 4; this is nothing against her this is a comment about the host, who should have noted that and NOT repeatedly interrupted her thoughts/speaking). asking Choralyne if she might have changed her mind after hearing Sarah's differing opinion and Clara's indecision was not helpful. it was a loaded question - it's highly unlikely she would go against the organization she is representing and is basically forced into a corner.

  • @KitaBelle23
    @KitaBelle23 4 дня назад +5

    There HAS to be a tougher sentence for rape. IMO the only thing that may curb it is castration. But that is highly unlikely because laws will never agree to it as long as it affects men. But crimes againt women and children...? they don't give an eff.

    • @katherineparis8208
      @katherineparis8208 4 дня назад

      While I would agree that there needs to be harsh sentencing that matches the crime, there is always the possibility of false convictions. That is a problem with things like the death penalty in places like the US. Unfortunately, there are some people that will be falsely convicted; it can be due to botched investigations, mistaken identity, or any number of other circumstances. Justice systems need to take that into account when dictating physical punishment that cannot be undone.
      I firmly believe that long term rehabilitation should be the goal, however I recognize that some people are beyond “fixing”. Prison sentences alone for violent crimes are never going to change behavior, there needs to be some form of making amends to society for the harm caused, and efforts made through therapy and education to ensure that there is some form of rehabilitation for the criminal. Releasing these men after a couple of months or years without any required therapy, education, rehabilitation, or community service is appalling.

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад

      @@katherineparis8208 The rate of "false convictions" for rape is lower than any other kind of crime. it just gets touted loudly & widely because of the sort of societies in which we live.

  • @marcydoyle9279
    @marcydoyle9279 2 дня назад +1

    The security guard that found this weak and witless pathetic excuse of a man ‘up-skirting’ needs to named ‘Person of the Year’.

  • @DeniseF-f1q
    @DeniseF-f1q 4 дня назад +3

    😢what a shame my sorrow goes out to her for I have sorrow of that experience from denise faison

  • @dimitrabouzalas3090
    @dimitrabouzalas3090 2 дня назад +1

    If I was a guy right now, I would not say anything that aims to demonstrate the justice system is improving, justifies the position of men or say anything that invalidates women. The anchor here is doing ok, but should not have said rape reporting has improved over the last 10 years. He got the answer that demonstrated his unfortunate male bias.

  • @SolangeBrill
    @SolangeBrill 4 дня назад +2

    I hope families, faith communities and educational institutions are and will discuss this vile attitude that is prevalent all around the world.

    • @Anne--Marie
      @Anne--Marie 4 дня назад

      Many faith communities blame the women

  • @nightowl6260
    @nightowl6260 4 дня назад +3

    Prayers answered.

    • @Alex.1765
      @Alex.1765 4 дня назад

      Thanks to the Republic

  • @mariacuachon3906
    @mariacuachon3906 3 дня назад +1

    The negative side of the internet and social media pulls people away from their soul and humanity. Pray more for yourselves and your fellow 🙏🪻

  • @plant495
    @plant495 4 дня назад +6

    Why is there a man moderating? Cringe.

    • @AC-le1jt
      @AC-le1jt 4 дня назад +1

      very cringe, indeed.

  • @misstara9838
    @misstara9838 День назад

    I thank The People of France to demanded the court and hold the criminals to the law. The court still needs to be educated by by its society, please continue to criticize the prosecutions, in its methods and the light sentences. This American woman thanks you.

  • @SylvanFosters
    @SylvanFosters 4 дня назад +3

    21:19 Numbers of reports may have “soared” in the last 10 years but that doesn’t mean it was a high percentag.

  • @ronaldluning4010
    @ronaldluning4010 3 дня назад

    Everyone deserves privacy no one deserves secrecy.

  • @mariasuarez3775
    @mariasuarez3775 3 дня назад

    Who is laughing now????

  • @eugeniaghiso9206
    @eugeniaghiso9206 День назад

    Why are all women ask men about this too

  • @janrochester3000
    @janrochester3000 4 дня назад

    When will. Dominique be tried for the murder?

  • @logic_420
    @logic_420 4 дня назад +1

    The only country this has influence on is French

    • @Alex.1765
      @Alex.1765 4 дня назад +8

      'France' is the country. And given the number of women from many different countries (at least 200) who have written to her, your comment is misinformed and gratuitous.

    • @logic_420
      @logic_420 4 дня назад +1

      @Alex.1765 no it's not 299 women from different countries who have population of millions

    • @SafetySpooon
      @SafetySpooon 3 дня назад +1

      Yeah, because no one in any other country will be inspired by this, not at all.

  • @kathleenholt6008
    @kathleenholt6008 3 дня назад

    She HAD to know she was being drugged and raped. She wasn’t paying attention. It’s sad this happened to her but I think she could have stopped it on day 1. There were signs. She ignored them.

    • @JessieBanana
      @JessieBanana 3 дня назад +5

      What? How could anyone thinking they were in a happy marriage assume they were being drugged by their spouse. And she did go to the hospital many times. They downplayed her concerns and convinced her she was crazy. She thought she must be dealing with Alzheimer’s.

    • @clairevariandeacon6906
      @clairevariandeacon6906 3 дня назад +2

      You're a monster, a brainless monster.

    • @zumazuma568
      @zumazuma568 2 дня назад +3

      She didn't. She even took tests for Alzheimers, cause she was worried about having memory issues, but it came back negative. After all, how likely would you think that your husband of 50 years, father of your children, was to do smth like this?

    • @dianatortolini7842
      @dianatortolini7842 12 часов назад

      This is textbook victim blaming.
      Contrary to popular belief, not all women know when they have been raped, especially if they were given powerful sedatives. Given that her husband was orchestrating these acts and had a laundry list of things her rapists couldn't do or wear -- they even had to avoid wearing cologne, for example -- specifically to avoid Madame Pelicot discovering what was going on, it is safe to assume enough subterfuge was used that she wouldn't reasonably know this was happening. When the eventual long-term impact of all the drugs did hit her, her husband drove her around to medical clinics for tests, totally playing along with the idea she had a major illness like Alzheimer's. Imagine the fear of thinking you have a degenerative condition like that and your husband continuing to dose you so you can be raped by strangers while he watches.
      These men should have been put in prison for much, much longer, and comments like yours are ignorant and vile.