No One Dares Push Back BECAUSE... | Destiny Reflects On The Trans Debate ►ruclips.net/video/9OjAF8iPdgk/видео.html Destiny Reacts To Lefty Celebrating His Twitch Ban On Debate Panel ►ruclips.net/video/fyuBub7C-z0/видео.html Furious Right-Wing PHD Shocks Destiny And Moderators, Forces Abrupt End To Debate ►ruclips.net/video/-nLJSxIsuKQ/видео.html
I agree with your basic premise but your framing is absolute dogshit. It makes a good faith discussion impossible and it weaponizes the discourse against trans people. Deliberately. Because you're clearly a malign transphobe who sits smugly under a veil of civility in the same sense that Nick Fuentes barely veils his racism in civil terms.
Is the guy destiny debating conservative? I feel like he’s a men’s right activist that is using the idea of equality to push men and women in sports, and in long run would make women conservative Because they will see difference between men and women. Kinda makes sense in that if men and women are equal, why do men have to subsidise women’s sports using their fame and ticket sales. Also wonder if destiny thinks men need to subsidise trans athletes as well like they do most women’s sports? Most scholarships and wages for women in women sports are paid through subsidies from men’s sports, from what I can tell money returning to gender that it was taken from. That my middle-conservative argument through eyes of men’s rights
37:50 it’s so ridiculous that people say TERFS are wanting to ban people out if bigotry. I’ve never heard a prominent well know “TERF” say anything other then what Destiny is saying.
Some of the left got so progressive they end up being the racist, sexists etc that they always talked about other being.. they pointed the finger so much and so often, all this time infact, and now its clear they are the ones that were these things all along. Its like when a guy that is staunchly anti-gay and pushing hit anti-gay views on everyone ends up being a homosexual himself.
Bad take, its not misogynist its INCEDIBLY FUCKING unfair to such an extent that its approaching misogyny, but I don't think his take is inherently misogyinistic - just retarded. Like he's making an ultra-extreme GRUG W argument but he doesn't even realise it.
It's the nature of progressives We go in one direction, doesnt matter if it makes sense just keep going, utopia is somewhere in this direction apparently.
Dude made a solid argument. It was water tight, bulletproof. No way to beat it. I cant see a way to beat "Since no one really watches women sports, it doesn't matter if men dominate their sports." Truly the smartest man of our time
Ya i was excited to see the nunes fight this weekend but then i realized that "no one" (who is a soy boy who doesnt watch sports) watches womens sports.
This is the first argument that actually made me feel gender critical. This is someone actively agitating to take away sports opportunities from 50% of the population to cater to less than 1%. Truly insane.
Honestly, don’t get sucked in to changing your view based on one guy with bad ideas. This isn’t a trans woman making these misogynistic points. For me, as a non-sporty cis woman who supports trans women, I think high level sports IS a tricky topic because people’s body types, hormone levels etc and sporting bodies are all up in athletes biology anyway. A trans woman who never went through male puberty is not going to be advantaged in the way that somone who started medically transitioning at 25 might be. We need to be compassionate and practical to figure out how to make it fair.
@AnnaP-uh3mc While I recognize that you have a point this position is not some total outlier position anymore. Many activists and journalists online have expressed the same basic sentiments. I think the reality is that trans advocates spend way too much time trying to minimize how absolutely deranged some of their fellow travelers are rather than exciting them from the movement
@@tylerreed2409 So what I’d do is object to this position specifically if I was confronted with it rather than use it to malign an entire community. I’ve never heard a trans athlete or a trans woman push this point, this is just a random young internet guy and his position is not widely held at all.
@AnnaP-uh3mc You not having heard them does not having any bearing on their prevalence online, the amount of people on twitter making the weight class argument right now is pretty staggering. If you somehow missed that I would just like you to think about how the left has treated all discussion of Lea Thompson and how her participation in women's swimming may not be fair.
Honestly I respect him for making this argument because at least he's being honest about it. All trans activists have this same position, they just dance around it and refuse to admit it.
He loses all credibility when he days that short people who can’t play basketball professionally do not experience social prejudice. As a 5’4” man, there is lots of social, professional and sexual prejudice. This guy just thinks life is hunky dory for everyone except trans people.
I love that the guy is progressive to the point of being full blown misogynistic and suggesting that a huge chunk of all women's sports is cheerleading
@@Vicente_Moreno he basically said that trans athletes going into female sports wouldnt be that big of a deal because most girls play sports that men arent interested in. His examples were cheerleading and volleyball. Kinda doesnt make sense tho because men already compete in cheerleading.
This is the main contention I have with these conversations. These people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. "Basketball is so unfair because only tall people can play" Muggsy Bogues was 5"3' and played NBA. Idiots
It’s insane to me, I do skiing competitively and the differences are huge. These people have clearly never played a sport or don’t care that women aren’t even close. I’m just astounded.
@@alvdp5891 bro I’ve been saying this. Some dumbass was bringing up Yao Ming and going “well if we had a bunch of 7 foot people in the world, shorter players wouldn’t be able to compete in the NBA”… like do these people know there are positions in basketball? A full team of Yao Ming clones would get destroyed. Look at Golden States little run, or the Rockets, they literally played without a true big man. We’re just now seeing a return to dominant bigs with Jokic and Embiid. Steph Curry is like 6’3”…. Hell, Michael Jordan was only 6’6”
As a woman, I honestly believe that we don’t matter to trans women, and most progressives. They would happily obliterate nearly a century of what women have achieved. Trans women are so desperate to be seen as “real women” that biological women just might as well kick dust. I’m afraid this is causing anger towards trans women, and it won’t end nicely.
@@matthewsocoollike well when a Trans man is able to compete with Cis men at a high level, we can address tha. to my knowledge that has not happened yet. Therefore the discussion would be speculative and perfunctory
@@matthewsocoollike Holy Macaroni Batman I never fucking realized. Like did you even watch the video? That guy only argued on behalf of trans women for an hour. And the sentiment of his argument is that trans women are more deserving of a safe competitive space than cis women. All the way to the point of removing gendered sports.
@@joeschmoe2202 that's not even what that dude was arguing bro what. He literally said he doesn't care if women get pushed out of the top level of sports. He acknowledged that trans women have an advantage over cis women, and that trans men do not have an advantage over cis men. His entire argument is that there aren't enough trans athletes to make a real impact. The issue isn't that cis women will be entirely replaced by trans women, it's that a peak cis woman can never reach the same peak that a trans woman can. Ffs
and it should COMPLETELY discredit his arguement because if womens sports aren't important why should we care about trans people in sports if they are a tiny tiny % that somehow are blowing records and taking over? Why would i want to allow them to destroy womens sports and records? These people don't understand lives are literally ruined, places are taken, money lost, records destroyed that people worked their whole career to set..
They said years ago, the left can never be 'progressive enough' that it's a circle. This is proof. This kids logic will remove ALL women from sport. I don't understand how a few people can't see that.
why have i not heard this argument be made in any of these discussions. if they truely beleive womens leagues shouldnt exist, then they cant argue that transwomen shouldnt be in mens leagues, 'because its just not that big a deal is it'. problem solved.
Because it all boils down to transwomen's need for validation as women. They'd rather screw cis women over than to not get that validation, so now the eternal loop in the online discourse revolves around semantics until the trans community shame the Sport industry into opening that door permanently.
@@harryseaton7444 Their argument I believe, I think this freak show made the point once or twice, that the problem with trans women being in mens divisions is that it goes against trans acceptance. So the reason as to why they're capable of holding these two seemingly contradicting positions at the same time is because they believe one goes against trans acceptance and one doesn't.
@@Shadowh8ter But "men's leagues" don't really exist. I believe for most sports there is an Open League and then there is a Women's League. What was it last year? A female soccer player did kickoffs for a college football team. Pretty sure NBA allows women. Along with the NFL, MLB, NHL... etc...
This guy is super insanely progressive, but also wants to remove women from competitive sports, but somehow advocates for that in a super progressive way. What a world we live in
Kingston Hawke The most self-serving little weasel you can possibly imagine. He's not a woman, probably has nothing to do with us (either because he's gay or an incel), therefore doesn't give a shit about our perspective or our rights. Completely self-involved.
It is so wild to see these ‘progressives’ not realize how misogynist and deeply dismissive to women they are. I was rolling when he said/implied cheerleading was the primary sport for HS women, followed by volleyball, full stop. He’s so dismissive of cheerleading as well, like ‘oh, that stupid girl sport, who gives a f*k about that.’ This s**t is priceless.
I felt the same. I did cheerleading and I remember a time fighting for the right to be considered an actual "sport". It's also like they forgot that in HS girls played basketball, softball, soccer and track, not just cheerleading and volleyball, like those sports don't even exist for the elementary through high school years for females. My mom graduated in the 70s and played basketball for her HS. Just to add my son did wrestling from age 7 through high school. There were girls who wrestled too but only a hand full in the whole state so not even to form a female league. They had to wrestle the boys. A female placed in regionals but once puberty hit between both sexes she hardly won matches.
When did he say cheerleading is the primary sport for women in HS and, more importantly, when destiny read from his list, was cheerleading considered as a sport for the purpose of the list?
This poor dude actually thinks Serena Williams would be happy to be playing ranked 500 men in Tennis and losing consistently to the ranked 450 men assuming that she even got on a televised match in her life. Like sure, she's technically not getting any actual airtime and sponsorships, but don't you realize that she will finally be competing with the 500th best players? That's progress for women in sports, baby!
If this guy is ok abolishing gender entirely from sports, and just having an open division where everyone competes. Then what's his issue with trans women just competing in the men's sports and leaving cis women's sports alone?
Because it leans to the argument that "trans women aren't women" because they aren't participating with other women. Its a very stupid mindset but these people (and probably some trans people) will think in their head "If I can't do X activity that women do, then I'm not a real female". It also gives people who are anti trans another argument to use to say "trans aren't real women because look they do Y instead of X activity that women do". Putting non gendered divisions in place would have everyone competing against everyone thus trans people would think "I'm participating in the same division as women therefore I am a women". But don't get me wrong this is all very fucking stupid and obviously trans women should not be in women's division.
It would probably have to be called the “open division” rather than the “men’s division” where cis women, cis men, trans women and trans men can all compete. It would basically just be cis men at the highest level but you would see the other groups in the lower divisions.
“Women are kicking at D1 levels” “Wait what do you mean? Kicking in what” “I guess …football? I don’t know. It doesn’t matter” This person has never watched a sport in their life. 16:47
Another point that they know nothing about sport. They keep saying 'yeah trans women have an advantage, but it's not that big'... Do they not know the margins in most high level sports? Like if a velodrome cyclist is 1% faster than the competition... they will will 100% of the events. They don't need to be a 30ft tall basketball player. But a team of basketball players each with 0.5% of a speed or reach or endurance advantage will just win way way way more.
@@chronographer A 5-10% advantage in a lot of sports would be the difference between not even being close to making the olympics and literally being the undisputed GOAT.
They couldn't decide if what they heard was about American football or soccer. There was a woman who was a kicker on a men's college American football team. I assume that what they meant but their brain short circuited
@@MrJBlich the funny thing is that goes against their point as the transwomen could just compete with the men as they are already at the apex of women's leagues
Cis women are scared of being called transphobic. That's why the only women on Lias team who spoke out was the women who placed just shy of making finals and only after she lost her spot.
When we created womens sports, we understood "woman" as "adult human female". Even if you personally define the word woman differently today, you will have to acknowledge that fact. So, we created sports categories for human females (girls and women), and we did have a reason for that. And those reasons where: 1) We wanted to give women the opportunity to compete among each other for 1a) Glory 1b) Money 1c) Safety reasons (in some sports) 2) We wanted to know what women are generally capable of (that's generally the goal of competition) If we add trans-women to womens sports, we will discourage all women (50% of the population) from doing competitive sports. It's pretty hard to train 8 times 2 hours a week just to be pushed out of top 3 by three trans-women who train half as much. So, we discourage 50% of the population from doing sports, in order to encourage 0.01% (or whatever) of the population? That simply doesn't add up.
I gained so much respect for Destiny in this conversation. Not so much because of his position, but because he was able to get through a discussion with this moron. I wanted to brain myself less than half way through.
the moment he'd say word "chess" I'd just kick him through his screen. joking, but I'd just go "chess? could you be more bad faith to go with chess out of all sports. even if women and men would be equal there, what's your point? well, at least women have chess to compete in?"
@@davidtavares5221 huh? the guy's main points: 1) look, it's not as bad if women won't get fair competition 2)not enough cis women lost yet to conclude anything, but agreed, that trans women have advantage over cis. 3) cis women have chess left. Even in chess it's wrong, but even if it'd be right, then nice, yeah, couple sports, great, seems fair.
This is the most brain damaged argument I've ever seen. Not enough people watch women's sports so we can just get rid of it and the best women will still get recognition anyway placed 500th (what about the next 30 best??) But there's enough Trans women who want to compete that we can fundamentally change the way we have sports??? How is this dudes brain not imploding with contradiction. This is a literally insane argument, completely dismisses women and has zero logical base. Even by his own argument he's lost because he claims not enough people watch women's sports for it to matter. Arguing we can completely remove 50% of the population from the chance to compete fairly in anything. So how in the world are there enough Trans women for them to matter in sports???? I'm shook.
In all honesty, it's dismissing women to say that having them compete with men would dismiss them. Almost nobody who ever plays sports ever has a shot at the top - ever, from birth - and they learn this really early on in life, yet they still compete at all levels. Those runners going up against Bolt or those swimmers going up against Phelps who were like best in their country, or even second best in Jamaica or America, KNOW that the only shot they have at the top is if the top fucks up, yet an entire field of people still compete. I think that the only women who would become discouraged and quit are either women who would quit anyway because they're not the best or women who don't recognize trans women as equally woman to them. "Trans women are women" doesn't mean that we merely treat trans women as if they were women, it means that a trans woman IS a woman, that it is possible for women to be born with penises and testes, that a part of the female experience is that some women have misaligned bodies to varying degrees and we shouldn't say "oh your body is too immutably out of whack to compete". THAT'S what it means that trans women are women.
1. This dude has definitely never played a sport 2. This dude has an embarrassingly bad understanding of the long term effects of PED’s 3. This dude is the worst debater I’ve ever seen on this platform 4. This dude has an unbelievable lack of any kind of comprehension skill, couldn’t follow a single argument. Never seen anything quite like it on this scene. 5. This was a major black pill 6. Both of you were wrong about ultramarathon runners
@@slipstreammonkey yea but i dont feel like that’s Destinys goal, the opponents goal here was to squirm out of corners by asking a really long irrelevant question
I miss the good old days whenever objective reality was just objective reality and we didn't have to classify and clarify every literal thing we say and do.
Thats the violent cycle of political correctness/SJW behavior. It will always cycle around and devour itself. Because in its nature, it cannot be satisified because changes will always create new differences.
You know how many times. I've heard "that's a slippery slope fallacy" by some leftist over the years when confronted with this very prediction. It's almost like sometimes if things are left unchallenged due to censorship or fear they lead to more regressive ideology. Now big tech fosters and protects those ideologies and is now on there way silencing any challengers by labeling them hateful or offensive. It's a good thing this cancer eats itself.
I kind of agree with him in a way, not personally but his argument is the natural progression of leftie logic, wanting equality for all etc. ***edit*** to go even further, I agree with him partially that the genderless system already exists, women leagues dont compete with top mens leagues etc etc, but I get the feeling his argument somehow lacks the understanding that women are part of society, like he bought the "patriarchy" theory a little too hard. If somehow you got rid of womens sports they would bring it back within a year, 5 years, 50 etc how does he not know women are part of these decisions and vote. Thats not even considering the trans part of it, in his system no trans will win a medal most probably either. don't see how it fixes anything.
This guy is so delusional. Venus and Serena Williams which are absolute legends in women tennis have easily been beaten by a man ranked 200. He is just okay to let fall these women into irrelevancy, it's so wrong at an individual level for these women with their incredible careers and at societal level for the women watching. He also completly misses the money aspect of having these gender category. Maybe the best women could get sponsorships but most women would not be able to live from their sport as they could make any appearance at big tournaments. The cherry on the top is that it would also wipes out trans athlete
@@pf4877 They're responding to the stated long-term goal of completely eliminating gender categories in sports. This comment wasn't about transwomen in women's sports, it was about not having women's divisions at all. That's why they said "The cherry on the top is that it would also wipes out trans athlete".
@@pf4877 I think that example is trying to point out why an open league would push women out because unfortunately even the top women would be below the men, rather than the impact of trans women competing.
@@pf4877 if I'm remembering right, the dude was buzzed because he was drinking before the games and still crushed them. I think that evens out with any hormone blockers if you can win while nearly drunk
The trans issue is the only issue where I’m not progressive on. I feel like trans and their supporters are disingenuous. Trans people absolutely deserve to exist freely, safety and with respect but to pretend there aren’t any differences is so unfair
SOME OF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT COULD BE TO BE A WOMAN FOR ONLY A FEW WEEKS THEN WIN A RACE AND NOT BE ACCEPTED BY YOUR SISTERS!! THESE BEAUTIFUL BRAVE WOMEN NEED PROTECTION FROM YOU HATERS !! THEY MAY HAVE A PENIS, THEY MAY HAVE MALE CHROMOSOMES ECT BUT THEY ARE 100%, WOMEN !! THEY ARE BRAVE AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN !! STOP BEING JEALOUS !! THEY DONT WANT TO MAKE MONEY !! THEY WANT TO JUST RUN !!! RUN LIKE THE WIND WITH NO ONE TO STOP THEM !!! INTO THE FEMINITY OF THE FUTURE !! BLESS THESE BRAVE NEW WOMEN !! PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THESE WOMEN ARE MEN !!! THEY ARE 100%, WOMEN !! THEY JUST HAVE A PENIS !!!
All these discussions have made me think most trans people live in a fantasy world. This is the least factual position I've ever heard Destiny argue against. This is flat earth level.
Pretty much do. These people live in online social bubbles and actively avoid even having to be in the same room with anyone who doesn't agree with them. That's why they falsely view Trans women in female sports as a left/right issue. In reality, its them having a radical point of view that most everyone across the political spectrum are at least skeptical of.
@@daltonwade7908 I think this is the end. Before it was a lot of "it is a social category" gender vs sex etc. But right now they argue for being able to compete in women sports like...actually physically BEING women. So yeah, I think they flew to close to sun, no one can honestly agree with this position.
When they're talking about a genderless sporting system, I just wish Destiny would have asked, "so you're okay with never having another female olympic medalist?" To not be able to realize that this proposition eliminates 60-70 years of progress is just insane.
This other dude clearly doesn't think that's a problem because he thinks there is no distinction between cis women and trans women. So if trans women win all the medals why should anyone care that it wasn't cis women, it's still women? Basically telling cis women to get fucked, shut up and get back in the kitchen. Oppressing all cis women so trans women can have their spot in the sun. When do we get to start labelling people like this as radical trans activists? Their positions are radical and outside an acceptable place in a reasonable society.
Or even when talking about Serena Williams, she had a win streak of 26 matches between 2012 -2015. Something that wouldnt happen in a genderless system.
This is an excellent counterpoint. However, they will argue for more divisions then, because bronze league is just as good at the silver, gold, platinum leagues. Fun how it the non competitive people telling the athletes to be less competitive.
Well to be fair he did in so many words. He said "so we should just let women fall into like a 4th division?" also "If you made sports genderless then the best women in the world would be like ranked 7000th." Still didn't phase this dude.
@@jameslwjtoler not at all. Nothing is written off or disregarded in any way. This idea seems to come from destiny doing the DM impression and declaring it as fact, but... this simply never happened lol
@@markwaller8072 I hate to disagree, but I heard it directly stated that women's athletics would be dismantled as a result of this, regardless of the intention behind it. You can try to justify that by any means you like, but that is implicit in this discussion.
@@jameslwjtoler oh so when you say "women's athletics" you don't mean women participating in sports, you just mean that there won't be something called "women's soccer" anymore? Ok, well yeah names change when you change who is and isn't allowed in a given league so that makes sense. If you were saying that this would somehow be the end of women participating in sports, you'd be totally wrong though.
One of the most frustrating discussions ever. I never imagined someone's debate mannerisms and tactics could be THIS infuriating. The goal post shifting, dishonesty, bad faith arguments, the way points he acknowledges somehow slide over him without any effect. Oh man. Destiny has the patience of a SAINT.
"I don't want to stop trans people competing because that's what TERFs want." "I think it doesn't matter if women are only like 7000th in the open leagues against transwomen." So not wanting to play into TERFs hands, then literally admitting to what the TERFs claim his side is doing. Great.
He said earlier today that he is an odd guy cuz he enjoys it, while most people avoid heated & repetitive exchanges. In other words, he admits he’s lucky personality-wise and he would never do it if his personality was more normal & conflict-avoidant
Man , at least the flat earthers are fun. What kind of guy would beat up on a girl. Any Trans person that would change gender to win in sports is a narcissist piece.
Its actually funny how that dude showed his true colors depreciating women's sports and trivializing their effort and passion for a sport, that's some internalized misogyny if i've ever seen one
@@markwaller8072 When you eliminate the categories you automatically are pushing women out of winning vs biological males. Literally the whole discussion
@@alexshilljones1048 maybe, but it's not one for one. Not every trans athlete is Leia Thomas. There are a tiny number of trans athletes and an even smaller number of trans athletes that could compete at the top -- yes, even with their biological advantages. So it could be true (not saying it is!) that for every 100 trans women you allow to play sports with women, 1 woman loses her place. I think that's a trade I could stand to make if those are the numbers.
@@markwaller8072 You aren't even listening to the argument. Trans pushing women out is only a minor part of the argument. The argument is that if we ELIMINATE the categories of male and female in sports, there would not only be less women competing but they wouldn't achieve anything compared to now.
@@markwaller8072 Simply because biological men have physical advantages over their female counter parts. So therefore why would discriminating (men vs women) be a bad thing when it gives women the chance to win.
So like, this person arguing with Destiny, actually pushed me more towards TERF ideals. The complete lack of empathy for CIS women really makes me question the perspective and ideals that they are a proponent of.
trans in sports are gonna push chicks off the soccer field and back in the kitchen. Kinda based tbh, I salute my ample-breasted brothers-in-arms as we stand united to wage the War on Women 😁
1:07:20 is when he lost the debate officially "Nobody is talking about eliminating women's sports *right now*" Accidentally revealed his true agenda Lmao
He says .03% of the population isn’t going to ruin all of women sports it is for the greater good, but since they are the minority wouldn’t the greater good be just how it is now?💀
I imagine that there will be more men in the future that will chose to identify as trans women (and take the minimal treatment required for legal transition) just to be able to be competitive . I mean, some athletes already do crazy things in order to be able to improve their performance (like taking steroids) so it wouldn't be far fetched .
@@Mrraerae it is obviousely different but that doesn't mean some people will not do it. Something tells me that there is at least one person in swimming that has done it and is having a lot of succes :)
One of the biggest problems and Destiny's biggest mistakes was calling it womens and mens sports. The truth is that it should be more accurately called Open and womens sports. There are no rules against women, trans women, trans men, or intersex in competing in what we incorrectly call "mens sports". So technically we already have a league for genderless sports that Cinth is advocating for.
The real problem here is people keep calling it womens sports. We call womens sports womens sports because a decade or two ago female was synonymous with woman. Now people want to claim gender is a social construct, meaning anyone can become whichever gender they choose, but biology is still a reality that cannot be changed. Female is a biological term, woman is a gendered term. We don't have sports separated by gender, we have sports separated by biology. The real problem is people use hijacked language games to try to make their point sound more valid.
We need to use the term female sports, bc that's what the issue is. I'm a female athlete & played NCAA, & I promise u that virtually every female athlete will tell u that we aren't competitive against males. Listening to these 🤡 who've never played sports & don't understand Title IX discuss the topics is just .. ughhhh 😆
Not entirely true. A top women’s soccer player managed to make the roster for one of Canada’s feeder league teams but the league made them cut her last minute.
@@Why-_-So-_-Serious Nope. He's talking about professional leagues. There's no legal NFL/NBA/NHL/etc. rule that excludes women. Women just can't compete.
If women's categories are so unimportant, then why is it such a goal to have trans women play in them. If we should eliminate women's sports, and trans women are women, then having them play in the men's division shouldn't be a problem. It would actually work _towards_ this bizarre goal of merging the divisions.. right?
@@Coastpsych_fi99 So firstly you don't care for it, so why would they force you to do it? Secondly that you as an individual. Women everywhere are encouraged to play, it's just not as many do compared to men
@@LegiamasC-OnTwitta He's completely stupid because this is literally the most common thing you find out in highschool. A lot of girls are literally playing sports in highschool. It's like the first thing you learn when you get into highschool. 😑
This pisses me off sooooo much. Like my brain is literally melting. How dare a man make the claim that women's sports are basically useless and need to be eliminated. Im proud to be a woman. I love being a woman. I wouldn't ever want to fucking compete against a man! No woman would ever win against a man. Do uou think that the best WNBA player would be able to win against a LeBron James or Michael Jordan? I think the best women's swimmer would be able to compete and win against Michael Phelps? Do you think the best woman sprinter would be able to compete and win against Usain bolt? Like what the fuck are we even talking about here?? I'm progressive but this progressive shit has gone way too fucking far and is literally fighting against the fabrics of reality! I'm tired.
They're freaking misogynists. The whole trans ideology is based on stereotypes about women. Transwomen say they're women based on porn-sick sexualization of women. Destiny is wrong too for claiming transwomen are women all the damn time, and then saying they can't compete in women's sports. Does he recognize the cognitive dissonance? Like no, transwomen are men and men shouldn't compete in women's sports.
@@markwaller8072 no, but he’s assuming while not being a cis woman that his idea is better for cis women because he thinks so based on no evidence. He’s a misogynist.
@@PsycholosopherJust because he doesn’t understand (I disagree with him too) doesn’t mean he hates women. A misogynist means you hate women. It also downplays what misogynists really is. Just like when people say Transphobic or Homophobic. It totally ignores what a phobia means.
As a woman who's played contact sports - there was never any social pressure to keep me out of sports. Ever. Not even once. I was raised by conservatives in the south and they didn't give a fuck if I did martial arts/played basketball/did wrestling/played softball. Women are not pushed away from sports, they're pushed into different sports from men, but they're both pushed into sports.
Yeah this is the sort of cartoonish view of reality that these people have, there's an echo chamber circle jerk of activists who reinforce these ideological talking points but haven't engaged with reality at all. I'm 38 and even when I was at school, sports were mandatory for both sexes all the way up until college. You have to remember that these radicals are very often social constructivists, they don't see real differences in men and women, or with "people" more broadly, they think differences exist either entirely or mostly due to social pressures. A lot of the difference in interest in sport, especially competitive sport is down to differences in biology, testosterone for example makes people more aggressive and eager to compete and so engage in sports which are inherently competitive arenas. It's why doctrines of equality are really dangerous ideas, men and women are fundamentally different, and we should embrace and celebrate that and not be bitter and angry and want to change the world.
This didn't use to happen, your experiences are merely proof that the values of Feminism have slowly and subtly influenced all citizens, even conservatives.
I'd argue conservatives push people to do sports and outdoor and seld defense activities more than progressive leftists would.. the lefties like the dude on the right almost seem to be against physical activity so they don't mind if those spaces are destroyed. There is a pattern of them simply not caring about anything but Trans people. Trans people are their god
That whole social pressure conversation was so dumb and useless. Even had someone in chat make me give them sources, and when I provided one, they said it was too late cuz it was from 2019..... I don't think his arguments were all completely bad but sometimes you just can't argue with dumb.
This person: No one watches womens sports so fuck’em lol Also this person: if all sports were just an open category absolutely people would sponsor and support the best women playing at rank 1000. Hats off to the moderator though. He was super proactive, this could've gone off the rails way harder.
They try so hard with this subject and they still sound all over the place. 😂 I don’t know why they insist on showing support for trans people in the most idiotic ways. People not watching women’s sports has nothing to do with the subject at hand. It’s just a sassy dismissal of the conversation because they have no real response.
Meanwhile yesterday during the Women's Champions League you had over 91.000 people in the stadium watching the quarter finals. LMAO But sure, "nobody watches women's sport"...
@@codyb.3015 I said there were 91,000 people in the STADIUM. The Women's World Cup final was watched by over 82 million people; the entire Women's World Cup by over 1.1 Billion people.
This is why it's impossible to debate with people that have gone to far right or left. You start having to understand and accept the mental gymnastics they've invented to justify their world view. You end up arguing presuppositions that are largely, if not entirely, unfounded.
I mean...isnt that kind of the point in a debate? Test ones theory to find loop holes and other questionables. Then update theory and start over to infinity.
@@JiminyCricketsYes, but his stance has no grounding. He’s comparing race segregation, something justified then by means of research claiming biological differences that have been deemed false and hateful, to the indisputable differences between men and women. It doesn’t stem from bigotry to give women their own division like it did excluding people of color. He literally has to put this truth aside to some degree to think he’s arguing it in good faith. He’s genuinely delusional.
@@caluhhhb 30 mins in and everytime destiny finds a flaw or tries to explain his point on the flaw he just says ''thats not relevent to the conversation'' to dodge it lmao when he drove it there
People missing this point always drives me insane: Having an unfair advantage in sports has nothing to do with beating everyone. You could use drugs, participate in a race, finish last and you would still have an unfair advantage because of the drugs. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it matters if you are boosting your own performance with an unfair advantage; for example by going through male puberty when your competitor hasn't gone through male puberty.
I think the idea of trans women becoming more accepted due to their increasing representation in sports is absolutely wrong. In my opinion trans acceptance will decrease over time due to cis women having lower chances to be competetive in sports.
@n30n Once people started claiming that transness was dependent upon identity alone it gave an avenue for those that are usually considered “privileged” (white males) an avenue to become “the oppressed” and unleash their anger.
@n30n well I guess it depends on what you mean by "criticism". (I mean, tbh, what even is there to "criticize" about trans people? Without generalizing an entire group of people, that is. You could criticize an individual, but trans people as a whole? I'm curious.) Are people getting mad over genuine criticism, or are people getting mad at blantant rudeness under the guise of "criticism"? I'm not active on social media beyond cat videos, so I wouldn't know what you're talking about specifically. But often times I see people claim a particular group "can't take criticism" only for said "criticism" to be rudeness/hate. If you say something offensive, people are allowed to be offended. Imo at least if you cannot handle people reacting to the things you say, on the internet of all places, you really shouldn't be saying anything at all. You can't go online and expect people to swallow your every word and post unchallenged. Also, I don't think trans acceptance was *ever* big in the first place. I find it hard to believe acceptance is "plummeting" when it was never necessaries accepted in the first place. If your entire worldview is centered around the internet, sure, trans acceptance might seem commonplace. But in the real world things are very different.
The reason this is so annoying because it sounds like this guy has never played a sport in his life but gets to speak for all women in sports and was so mindblown by destiny saying hs boys basketball teams could beat WNBA teams they definitely could
@@ogolthorp Yes, they were rank 1 in the world at the time. This regularly happens to Women's Teams that are competing the world cup. They will play high school teams of the hosting nation to practice.
The NBA is an example of a genderless professional sports league. Anyone can try to make a team, and the results have historically been comprised entirely of male athletes. The league has grown in big part by emphasizing sustainability, competition, and entertainment at the highest levels. It’s a talent-driven league; elite performance is easy to market
But would they support Lebanon James joining the wnba? If he said he was a woman? How is this aloud by sports officials? This is worse than flat earth arguments to me. How do so many people believe it's ok for males to beat females.
@@tronapostle1322 NHL too. There was even a woman that tended goal for at least one game. I can't remember which team but that was way back in the 90s. Edit: Manon Rhéaume tried out for the Tampa Bay Lightning in 1992 playing in a preseason game that year as well as another in '93.
@@tronapostle1322 correct. MLB, too and NHL as well. We haven’t seen women fill any of these rosters, nor the farm systems which supply them. If people continue asking “why” while only listening for the preferred answers, then I expect to see things get a lot nastier all around this issue
This guy obviously has never competed. He has no idea what he is talking about. 2 to 4 years can be devastating in the world of athletics. And the fact that a trans woman can’t compete against biological women when they are out of their prime and still win should be a huge indicator that trans women competing in biological women’s sports should not happen.
Facts, they acted like 2-4 years wasn't that long. At the low end that's literally over half of your college career. If you get caught as a freshman you aren't playing again until senior year.
the fact that he said 2years isnt long for someone at the top of a competitive sport is a huge red flag that he has never competed and has 0 idea about sport in general. You take 2 years off you lose the edge, your training would suffer a very low % of people would come back and be competitive after said layoff.
@@tristanmeadows and his assumption that womens athletes wouldnt care about getting their ranks and championships eliminated. He doesnt understand that women want to be champs; they dont want to be ranked 7000 in a mixed league.
You gotta love people who don’t compete in any physical demanding activity are the ones sitting behind computers with soft hands dictating how we should be eliminating the sex categories in sports . lol
@Andre Wait isn’t a fun term “terminally online” ? Go touch some grass? Streamers are not doing anything physically demanding, The beautiful irony is we have people who are fine w/ eliminating sex in sports yet none of them have a single dog in the fight.
@@Andrewoo99 Do you have eyes, if someone's below average BMI and looks paler than a ghost odds are they haven't competed at state/national level in a sport and and shouldn't be dictating their opinion onto those that have. They're allowed to have an opinion but these scrawny, fat, terminally-online activists that break a sweat walking to the fridge want to impose that opinion onto people who have lived experiences and knowledge directly contradictory to their deluded online view of the world.
Imagine the mental gymnastics of thinking not allowing women to be the best in their league and champions of women’s divisions and thinking 50% of the plane is a “small percentage” vs the argument that we should dissolve all categories in sports for 1% of society to feel better. Or “more fair”
He lost track once the guy started saying trans women and cis men grow up with different social pressures. There’s some chance he doesn’t know what it means to be a trans woman. Hint: Both trans women and cis men both grew up as boys
This guy actually seems smart, because he’s very good at shifting the goal post in sneaky ways. Any time Destiny is making a really good point, he confidently acts like he’s making some own on an argument Destiny never made. Not only does it SOUND good if you aren’t listening closely, it’s confusing to keep up with. The issue is this guy is insanely slimy and dishonest.
@@astrorob6985 He’s a smart guy but he picked the conclusion he wants to be true and he’s working backwards from there. He agrees there is an advantage, but he waves that away as “insignificant” which is just a vague dodging of the issue. He is also intentionally misinterpreting the idea of “pushing women out.” He keeps framing it as though it means trans women will replace all cis women. He fails to acknowledge that all it takes is ONE trans woman to ruin the integrity of an entire sport. He thinks cis women should settle for playing at a disadvantage against trans women. Why? Because he thinks it’s unfair for trans women to play at a disadvantage against cis men. The level of hypocrisy is immeasurable
@@JesusChristsDick oh yeah I 100% agree. His takes are absolute dog shit and his main goal is to try and sound more right than Destiny. It was actually difficult listening to, I have no clue how Destiny didn’t just leave the call
It's driving me nuts that the other side doesn't realize we've been here already, when then say "we don't know what would happen, women could compete on the same levels." That's why women's leagues were created in the first place. The separation was a solution to a problem - mainly that the average woman could not compete at the same levels in many sports, compared to men. It seems trans women get caught in the middle of this issue and I get it - I'm not trying to be a dick and hurt anyone. I just don't think a male that has had male puberty would be fair competition to a female - regardless if they identify as a woman or not.
Yeah, the fact that there's actually a push by males to destroy competitive sports for females who comprise 51% of the population, & these males consider themselves progressive, is just tragic
Women not in general, not a little, no even a bit can compete with athletic males in any sport that requires the body to be used in some explosive way.
"Division three football on tv: do they even happen?" *moderator shakes head* In real life, no one is going to sponsor a potential competitor knowing they'd be like rank 3000. I wouldn't even want to compete for such place. That basically is the end of a lot of athlete's careers. Edited: the longer this conversation goes on the more tradcon he appears to be, seriously: "women near only play sportslike cheerleading so it's not a big deal"
that's why they have recreational leagues called "adult (insert sport here)" where the ppl that werent as tall as shaq or not able to handle a golf club like tiger can compete.
And when he said nobody watches top womens sports, man, what a bunch of shit. Las leonas, the argentinian national hockey (not ice) team is huge here. A vast majority of the people that are into sports watch them play. In fact they pull way bigger numbers than the male national team, I'm sure. This team wouldn't even exist on his ideal no gender sports, they would be a random neighborhood team that wouldn't even be televised. He doesn't even know what he is talking about.
@@Igelme yeah, those statements really bothered me as well. They could have easily come out of the mouth of an ultra conservative or something. Horseshoe theory once again.
@@alvdp5891 Yea but you know about him and his height because he was like hyper-exceptional. There's a reason no other players as short as him have been as succesful
35:23 thats 100% true. All these people arguing over all these sports things have never compete in sports in any real capacity and its ironic that destiny has to point this out. He routinely has to bring this up. The people who argue this shit are just totally out of their depth and have NO clue how big the difference is
"Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion, too" This poetic masterpiece of a song is where he got his degenerate ideas from.
There should be rules to enter a debate: Be over the age of 25, Have left your bedroom in the last 24h, have experienced a sexual relationship. This would eliminate 70% of online leftists and greatly improve the quality of the discourse by moving it into the realm of reality.
Argument ended in the first minute when the proponent of trans sport forgets that trans men are a category… this is only about men entering women’s sports
Lol he actually believes that high school and college male.basketball players couldn't destroy the WNBA. As if soccer vs basketball even matters. Our country is doomed 😂😂😂😂😂
As a female athlete, I can tell you that we simply aren't competitive against males in most sports. Making us compete against males will fundamentally change female sports & disincentivize us from doing sports at all. 51% (the majority) of humans are female, so destroying the integrity of competitive sports for us will negatively impact all of society. Sports are important for a stress outlet, learning teamwork, & getting college scholarships. Saying t-women are women has nothing to do with competing against females in sports. It blows my mind that these males somehow don't understand the difference in bio sex M/F vs the social construct of gender ie, man/woman
I blame only child's the amount of people that think woman and men have the same strength is insane, Even when a women is at 80kg and a man is at 80kg the woman will still have less physical strength and people will look at you like your insane for saying it.
That female athletes cant compete against male athletes in itself is not an argument against transwomen in women sport. You need to add that HRT does not make males allign with female athletes on a competetive level.
As a (former) Martial arts competitor I could not imagine a 6'1 women ever being competitive against a 5'6 man in any full contact competition as serious amateur or above, the difference in reaction time, coordination and "toughness" is just that big, I am told the level for testosterone a transwoman to be able to compete was 288(from the Lia case), I had a period of my life where I was about that level as a man, I felt kinda crap and I was not competing at the time but still.
This dude is saying that the "social harm" of not allowing trans women to compete in sports is so great, that he essentially wants cis women to get almost completely dumpstered on and become irrelevant in competitive sports, and he states that the "social harm" 8n doing that is negligible..... like what???
The one part of this whole discussion that I don't understand is this idea that cis women are getting destroyed and being made irrelevant by trans women in sports. Where is this happening wtf??
@@kidmidas2029 Trans arent destroying cis women at your local high school basketball game or swim meet because they are so rare. But Once you go higher up the ladder when it becomes best of the best in professional competive sports a few are not only dominating but breaking records. Lia Thomas broke six records in one event. One race she one by a staggering 38 seconds. There are plenty of other instances at the top of the competitive ladders. Trans power lifters are smoking the competition and setting records aswell. All across the competitive sports spectrum there is a fear that they will one day be pushed out. The only thing stopping a complete takeover is the rarity of Trans people. Give it a few years when more come into the sports. A cis women holding a record will be a rarity.
This guy has never played sports, enjoyed sports, or cared about sports, or has ever had a girlfriend or female family member or friend that has played sports.
@@lincolnwillis3345 Still says things where it turns out he doesn't even know what that sentence of phrase means. Clearly has no interest in actual honest and factual debate. Will say anything to push his side. Doesn't know the most basic things but goes on to debate the topic, with great confidence. It's typical i guess.
When that trans chick won gold in the olympic swimming competition a while back, I can't imagine how heartbreaking it was for the biological females. Train your entire life for a man to take your gold medal in the olympics. Jesus fuck I'm losing brain cells listening to this guy. Destiny has the patience of a saint. I'm losing mine. Like, I'm slightly on the progressive side, but listening to this dude talk...
If Synth really cared about the "social utility", they'd accept that trying to crowbar Trans women into women's sport is **increasing** Transphobia, not reducing it. How many "allies" do you think Lia Thomas won over? I would guess it would be negative.
I can testify to this as someone who is a center-right conservative, I understand a lot of the conservative takes on trans issues and many of them are pushing back against the insanity of the radicals because they think it's somehow what "trans people" as a group want, when that's actually kinda not true. Many more of the moderate conseratives who are already fine with homosexuality or bisexuality are going to be fine to accept trans people into society, but it has to be a sane and level headed approach which doesn't deny the basic reality of biology or seek to destroy distinctions of things like males and females. The best thing the more progressive and left leaning people can do is actually focus on fighting back against the radicals (as Destiny is rightly doing) and you'll have a platform that attracts more of society and make life functionally better for trans people.
@@Frosty-oj6hw you're preaching to the choir mate lol. I'm also on the Right and couldn't agree more. That being said, Right Wingers meeting up in a Destiny comment section probably isn't doing good image any good lol. Which is a depressing thing to say.
@@jamiehayes7353 Yeah my comment was in reply to you but it was also more broadly aimed at the community in general. DGG seems to be more left leaning for sure but I think they're way more moderate than most other communities, which is a good thing for the reasons I outlined. Neither side of the political divide is ever going to go away or be won over, there's this stupid notion both groups have that somehow we "win" if we only have the right tactics, which is really dumb and counter productive. Communities that facilitate middle ground, places to find common agreement, they foster positive changes in society, but it means denouncing the radicals on both sides. Basically it's a compliment to the community that I think Destiny has a good stance on this and the community backing him is also good.
@@Frosty-oj6hw I completely agree. That Destiny gets attacked for having arguments that appeal to both sides genuinely terrifies me. I'm pretty sure Vaush actually vocalised that viewpoint in the debate over Philosophy Tube, suggesting that it's a bad thing to treat Lefties the same way he does with the Right. Really? That's how degraded society has become?
It annoys me so much how he goes with Destiny and talks about the hypothetical situation where they eliminate womens sports but then suddenly decides its about including trans in womens sports and accuses him of straw-manning.
Sorry but “this woman is the best in the world at her sport!” Just has a much different ring to it than “this woman is top 500 in the world in her sport!”
But that's the current reality lol. How many men have ever uttered something to the effect of "(X female player) may be the best in her sport, but in reality she's more like the rank 500 man" or "yeah they're the best... WOMAN (lolololol)" Like come on. It's disingenuous to think that women in sports don't already face this reality-- they're reminded of it constantly every day.
@@markwaller8072 No, that argument is in response to when women online try to make comparisons of how a respective female athlete in her sport may be better than the best male athlete. Like people comparing Sue Bird to Lebron for example. Sue Bird may be the best female basketball player, that doesn't mean she can be compared to Lebron
There was a question read by the moderator that ended this debate and I'm not sure Destiny caught it. "Why can't tranz women just compete with the men?" The beardless one's answer was basically because they don't identify as male and that should be respected. The funny thing is there's no changes required to fix this problem. Men's sports are already open to women. So a tranz women can compete in men's sports as a "woman" if they want. That's how you know there's an agenda here and not a sincere desire to find a reasonable solution.
Ok, but to be super good faith, you have to admit that even if the men's leagues are open, they are viewed as men's leagues. So a trans woman in a men's league might be pretty demoralizing to that trans woman. Not that I'm disagreeing with Destiny on the broader point, but I do think it was a fair response from the other guy on that question.
Exactly, except i think theres an EXTREME desire from these progressive lefties to see Trans people do really well in womens sports, no matter the cost. I think THEY WANT to see Trans women dominate at the top, and then they will say "hey its just a coincidence"
@@albertjohnston1026 Is it not empowering to be a woman who can actually compete with men? Isnt that something you can be proud of? Isnt it worse to just stomp in womens leagues?
@@albertjohnston1026 But the kid is entirely convinced that men and women should be competing against each other anyway, and that having a women's league is discriminatory. his objective with Trans Athletes, and his end goal of universal coed sports run counter to each other, until you realize one is just a stepping stone to the other. Normally I cringe at the whole conservative reeeeing at sjw agendas... except, in this case, he outright said that was the plan the whole time 😓
This guy spends 80% of the debate staring intensely at himself in discord window, making sure his combover isn't ruined. The remaining 20% is fishing for irrellevant gotcha's. It should be illegal to be this obnoxious. What a brainrotting convo, this will be extremely hurtful to the progress of the trans debate. Literal conspiracy-lunacy level analysis from people who haven't been in real sports or have cis-friends in real sports.
Dude, you're being as unhinged as the guy that said eating pizza is a debate tactic. You're not attacking any of his arguments, you just basically called him a debate bro.
@@Vicente_Moreno The guy literally tried to argue that cis men and trans women grow up facing different social pressures to play sports DESPITE BOTH GROWING UP AS BOYS. Get off it, this guy was an embarrassment
@@archimedes5172 oh sweetpotato, as if I'm delusional enough to believe that a streamer gives a motherfucking fuck about any individual viewer. Try watching the whole thing before commenting. Thx bud!
Holy shit, this Sinthe person basically runs on motte and bailey. S: girls are pressured out of sports D: 44% of girls participate in sports S: that's mostly cheerleading D: it's mostly not cheerleading S: well they're not being encouraged to play football D: sure S: see, they're being forced out of sports! Also, isn't it a problem that cheerleading specifically is not acknowledged as a sport? That's why injuries in cheerleading doesn't offer the same protections in recognised sports?
Also worth noting that track and field (the main one listed) relies heavily on things that are massively different based on sex. The difference between men and women even in distance running is several minutes, and it's way worse in sports that depends on explosiveness and power. This guy (sorry enby) needs to actually try competing at something so they can develop a modicum of respect and knowledge.
I can tell you in my highschool we had the cheerleading team that was probably ~20 girls and a couple guys that were all in one team and pretty much just cheered at the football games. Then there was the freshman, JV and Varsity teams for soccer, basketball and softball plus many dozens of girls who did various track and field events. I don't think there was a swim team since we had no pool. Idk where this dude gets the idea that most girls are just doing cheerleading. How is that not misogyny?
The majortity of sports woman do where i live is hockey,football,rugby,running,swimming and tennis as far as im aware Sinthe or whatever knows dick about sports i dont think we even have cheerleading here XD
why sports? The only ones who should be talking is women who are competing. Men trying to argue over topics they can't even be part of what the problem is also need to shut the fuck up
If the argument is to ultimately dissolve gendered categories in sports, why would we not just include trans women in the open category? Why force them into a protected category? As athletes, would trans women really feel that much better if cis women were forced to participate in the open category too?
The open category would essentially be a men's category. Any ciswomen, transwomen and transmen in the Top 100 in most sports would be massive outliers.
Because its not about equal treatment, its about breaking down things he sees as offensive. In his weird world view, he seems to think that the fact that women and men are treated differently based on biological indicators is bigotry. He is like a extremely twisted meninist with purely ideological standpoints and no interest in practical applications/pragmatism.
@@uUuWolf16uUu This feels like actual misogyny, where a lot of "patriarchal" misogyny feminist whine about is usually an over protective nature towards women. (Literally the thing like credit card women couldn't get it but her debt would be forced on the men in her life.)
@@majdjinn5042 Yes. It's a weird ouroboros of self-devouring ideology that will always come around. It seems to be morally neutral and purely based on ideology instead of on actual realities that come with these decisions. It's friggin weird, like a logic robot who can never break out of his linear thinking.
Damn, so this guy is basically a misogynist. I feel like Destiny didn’t come as prepared for this debate as he should have but it’s understandable that he didn’t think someone would argue so aggressively against something most people find obvious: the physical dominance of biological men.
Despite the experience of the other debates, I think Destiny was honestly surprised at how deranged this dude was. It's like arguing with someone who says the sky is black. I suppose there are things you cannot prepare for.
It's hard to prepare for a debate with someone who is full of lies, "facts" he brings up but can't even follow up on and keeps dodging going into any topic, just beating around the bush. Steven's arguments were on point, the other guy just ignored them.
@@sargeteg5927 That's exactly it. I mean think about it, what WOULD you say if someone tried to argue that the sky was black? You'd have to delve into the phenomenological weeds for sure, but whos ready for that? And then the kid started throwing in black people? I think, the good thing to come from this is everyone here has been inoculated for this bonkers line of reasoning now.
I've been doing contact sports for most of my life and to think that females could compete with males is just completely absurd, we will harm them and they will suffer. It's not fair in any way.
A little disingenuous since he said that not every sport should be integrated like this. I don't think he's pushing for men and women to compete in boxing, and even then, boxing is one of the most heavily partitioned sports, all these different weight classes and conditions. Wouldn't be hard to keep that rigid structure with men and women separate too, even as much of society integrates.
@@markwaller8072 But there is a big difference in ability that you are either ignoring purposefully or just glossing over. There is no outright difference stopping women from playing baseball (Eri Yoshida played baseball professionally in Japan as a pitcher), but it's just that men have a distinct advantage over women. For example, in baseball, taller pitchers are generally favored as your pitch windup requires you to take a massive stride forward at release to generate power as you throw. Taller people = larger stride. Women are generally smaller and so they naturally throw slower pitches. Eri Yoshida was trained by Tim Wakefield, a famous baseball pitcher, and he focused on her finesse and control while making her have a different pitch windup to compensate for her lack of size (side arm throw like an 80s pitcher).
@@merlotpapi4930 none of these arguments about the extremes matter because most people playing sports aren't in it to be the best. The vast majority of women and men that will ever play sports knows they will never be competitive for the best. They still do it anyway. So dislodging the extremely small minority of people who actually care from their top spots through being more inclusive I don't think is that controversial. Destiny keeps conjuring up hypothetical legions of women who would be disenfranchised by this, but the fact is that most women's rankings would remain basically the same as before lol.
@@markwaller8072 "because most people playing sports aren't in it to be the best" absolute brain dead take and it screams that you've never played a sport ever in your life. This entire debate is just suburban nerdy white dudes pontificating about sports like they are professional athletes or are about that life. Every athlete wants to be the best. That's why they compete for championships. That's why they give out individual awards. That's why we have Hall of Fames. You going "but the fact is that most women's rankings would remain basically the same as before lol" is also quite literally not an argument and just you conjuring up a lie as a gotcha. It's not hard to see why a biological male who transitioned into a woman would have an advantage playing a sport with biological women. It takes almost 3 brain cells to see that. If Serena Williams can see that, someone who is the very best in the sport she does, then surely you should too. But this isn't about what's real or logical, this is just purely reflexive ideological posturing for you it seems.
@@markwaller8072 The rankings won't stay the same, especially if you're letting men who think they're women compete with actual biological women. Even in amateuar sports the differences are very noticeable. So you're argument falls flat, any sensible athlete can tell you this, professional or not.
Just to point how blatantly wrong this guy is, the only person on my HS cross country team was a girl a year ahead of me. I’d regularly beat her times, if only by a thin margin, and struggle to place in the top 100. Meanwhile, she got a full scholarship and was named all American her sophomore year in college. The advantage in lung capacity and cardiac output the average male athlete has is massive and to my knowledge neither is effected by HRT.
Yeah, he clearly has never competed in or watched any endurance sports. Just because the percentage of performance difference isn’t as large as short and middle distance, doesn’t mean it isn’t still pronounced amongst elite competitors, even in ultramarathons. Fastest 100 mile time for men is just under 11 hours - for women, it’s just under 13 hours…
man, when people were talking in 2016 about 3rd wave feminism eating itself i did _not_ expect it to be laden with this much irony. eliminating women's spaces so men in dresses could feel valid. the schadenfreude is unreal
They: so would you exclude Croatians? Destiny: no we don’t divide by nationality They: yes we do there are national teams -__- Why bother with this person if they’re not going to be honest
It's interesting just how extremely uneducated you can be about something and still try to argue it for so long without doing a single bit of research. Trying to exclude a country based on like 2cm of extra height that some countries is unfathomably different to the physical difference between men and women.
Actually destiny made a ton of naturalistic fallacies here. He argued about half a dozen time that because we don't currently divide based on X, we shouldn't divide based on X or that because we divide based on gender that can support the division based on gender. Was wondering if Cinth would call him on it.
@@markwaller8072 If this dude has no problem with genderless sports he should have no problem with transwomen competing against men he should just openly say he cares more about transwomen than women. Even if we did divide by x it would still be divided by sex regardless and thus it would just become women with no advantages over eachother competing against eachother thus never knowing who the best woman overall is in any given league be it international or national it makes no sense. We accept advantages within same sex categories because its still fair on average and sports are about being exceptional specimens being the best in the world even. Combat sports have weight classes because we recognize how much of an unfair advantage weight brings but i guess this dude would have no problem eliminating those either the lighter dudes wouldnt mind right This dude is truly one of a kind when it comes to having a braindead debate
Holy god. I consider myself a progressive and watching this person really clarified for me why so many people hate us. As a side note, I’ve heard so much sh*t talked about Destiny, but he comes over as very measured and compassionate to both sides of the argument.
It doesn't matter what political position you take, there's always gonna be a loud group of people who hate you for it so who cares - its the MO of an enemy to push back on anything their adversary says or believes.
@@rjjacob101I'm super super far right and I love listening to destiny debate. I don't agree with everything he says but he's a great conversationalist.
@@Bixnoodle Are you like.. a nazi? Not trying to insult you or anything but you said 'super super far right', so I'm just kinda curious. Because that's 4 degrees to the right from the center lol.
Who is the guy on the right because he is extremely ignorant and pretentious. And for the future comparing chess to a physical sport is absolutely asinine as a concept. They aren't comparable at all. Also you should probably have played organized sports to properly speak upon this.
This guy who is clearly not an athlete, and who clearly does not even understand what competitive integrity is, sure has a lot of strong opinions about women's sports and what the future of sports should look like. It's very convenient for men to be able identify as non-binary or trans so they can have the green light to decide what is best for all women.
I like how the other guy expresses so solidly that best woman in sport is actually a failure because there are better men at that same sport. Fits his values properly.
No One Dares Push Back BECAUSE... | Destiny Reflects On The Trans Debate ►ruclips.net/video/9OjAF8iPdgk/видео.html
Destiny Reacts To Lefty Celebrating His Twitch Ban On Debate Panel ►ruclips.net/video/fyuBub7C-z0/видео.html
Furious Right-Wing PHD Shocks Destiny And Moderators, Forces Abrupt End To Debate ►ruclips.net/video/-nLJSxIsuKQ/видео.html
I agree with your basic premise but your framing is absolute dogshit. It makes a good faith discussion impossible and it weaponizes the discourse against trans people. Deliberately. Because you're clearly a malign transphobe who sits smugly under a veil of civility in the same sense that Nick Fuentes barely veils his racism in civil terms.
Should remove age before gender in sports because didn’t the under 15 boys beat the women’s national team 5-2 in soccer
Is the guy destiny debating conservative? I feel like he’s a men’s right activist that is using the idea of equality to push men and women in sports, and in long run would make women conservative Because they will see difference between men and women. Kinda makes sense in that if men and women are equal, why do men have to subsidise women’s sports using their fame and ticket sales.
Also wonder if destiny thinks men need to subsidise trans athletes as well like they do most women’s sports?
Most scholarships and wages for women in women sports are paid through subsidies from men’s sports, from what I can tell money returning to gender that it was taken from.
That my middle-conservative argument through eyes of men’s rights
Destiny you should stop talking to these dipshits and have a real conversation with someone who isn't just saying this crap to gain some social clout
37:50 it’s so ridiculous that people say TERFS are wanting to ban people out if bigotry. I’ve never heard a prominent well know “TERF” say anything other then what Destiny is saying.
I love when we get so progressive that we become misogynist. Very based
Some of the left got so progressive they end up being the racist, sexists etc that they always talked about other being.. they pointed the finger so much and so often, all this time infact, and now its clear they are the ones that were these things all along. Its like when a guy that is staunchly anti-gay and pushing hit anti-gay views on everyone ends up being a homosexual himself.
Bad take, its not misogynist its INCEDIBLY FUCKING unfair to such an extent that its approaching misogyny, but I don't think his take is inherently misogyinistic - just retarded. Like he's making an ultra-extreme GRUG W argument but he doesn't even realise it.
@@supersuede91 idk dude the eradication of protected spaces for women seems pretty misogynist to me.
@@thugzbunny9351 It is
It's the nature of progressives
We go in one direction, doesnt matter if it makes sense just keep going, utopia is somewhere in this direction apparently.
Dude made a solid argument. It was water tight, bulletproof. No way to beat it. I cant see a way to beat "Since no one really watches women sports, it doesn't matter if men dominate their sports." Truly the smartest man of our time
Hey, assuming he is a man is a personal attack according to him
Ya i was excited to see the nunes fight this weekend but then i realized that "no one" (who is a soy boy who doesnt watch sports) watches womens sports.
Ahem... not a man of our time.
A non-binary of our time.
😂👍
I guess my wife doesn’t watch swimming and gymnastics and her feelings should be ignored cause of non binary and transwomen …
This is the first argument that actually made me feel gender critical. This is someone actively agitating to take away sports opportunities from 50% of the population to cater to less than 1%. Truly insane.
Honestly, don’t get sucked in to changing your view based on one guy with bad ideas. This isn’t a trans woman making these misogynistic points. For me, as a non-sporty cis woman who supports trans women, I think high level sports IS a tricky topic because people’s body types, hormone levels etc and sporting bodies are all up in athletes biology anyway. A trans woman who never went through male puberty is not going to be advantaged in the way that somone who started medically transitioning at 25 might be. We need to be compassionate and practical to figure out how to make it fair.
@AnnaP-uh3mc While I recognize that you have a point this position is not some total outlier position anymore. Many activists and journalists online have expressed the same basic sentiments. I think the reality is that trans advocates spend way too much time trying to minimize how absolutely deranged some of their fellow travelers are rather than exciting them from the movement
@@tylerreed2409 So what I’d do is object to this position specifically if I was confronted with it rather than use it to malign an entire community. I’ve never heard a trans athlete or a trans woman push this point, this is just a random young internet guy and his position is not widely held at all.
@AnnaP-uh3mc You not having heard them does not having any bearing on their prevalence online, the amount of people on twitter making the weight class argument right now is pretty staggering. If you somehow missed that I would just like you to think about how the left has treated all discussion of Lea Thompson and how her participation in women's swimming may not be fair.
@@AnnaP-uh3mca trans woman that never went through puberty is a boy that was given puberty blockers and hrt as a minor. Something I would vote against
Bro’s entire argument can be summed up with one sentence, “in order to protect trans inclusivity, we must eliminate women’s spaces entirely”
Honestly I respect him for making this argument because at least he's being honest about it.
All trans activists have this same position, they just dance around it and refuse to admit it.
He loses all credibility when he days that short people who can’t play basketball professionally do not experience social prejudice. As a 5’4” man, there is lots of social, professional and sexual prejudice. This guy just thinks life is hunky dory for everyone except trans people.
The other half of his argument was "dont straw man my argument by giving a response to exactly what i said and meant"... Dude sucks.
That would also eliminate mens spaces too no?
I love that the guy is progressive to the point of being full blown misogynistic and suggesting that a huge chunk of all women's sports is cheerleading
What's old is new again.
Show me when he said that.
@@Vicente_Moreno he basically said that trans athletes going into female sports wouldnt be that big of a deal because most girls play sports that men arent interested in. His examples were cheerleading and volleyball. Kinda doesnt make sense tho because men already compete in cheerleading.
@@petemoney451 Yup, dude is just trying to be the new hypocrites on the block. I knew this 10 minutes into the video.
@@Vicente_Moreno he said it somewhere around 25-40 min mark how he thinks majority of women in sports are cheerleaders
A lot of people who clearly have never played a sport in their lives have really strong opinions about how sports should be divided.
This is the main contention I have with these conversations. These people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. "Basketball is so unfair because only tall people can play" Muggsy Bogues was 5"3' and played NBA. Idiots
It’s insane to me, I do skiing competitively and the differences are huge. These people have clearly never played a sport or don’t care that women aren’t even close. I’m just astounded.
@@alvdp5891 uhm kiddo, being tall in basketball is basically cheating naturally and is the biggest factor provided you know how to pkay
@@mariomario1462 if being tall is naturally cheating, why aren't all NBA players over 7 for tall?
@@alvdp5891 bro I’ve been saying this. Some dumbass was bringing up Yao Ming and going “well if we had a bunch of 7 foot people in the world, shorter players wouldn’t be able to compete in the NBA”… like do these people know there are positions in basketball? A full team of Yao Ming clones would get destroyed. Look at Golden States little run, or the Rockets, they literally played without a true big man. We’re just now seeing a return to dominant bigs with Jokic and Embiid. Steph Curry is like 6’3”…. Hell, Michael Jordan was only 6’6”
"The feelings of this woman does not outweigh..." literally the argument used against Trans people and he's using it against cis women. Bruh
🤣🤣🤣
Yeah I squinted when I caught that.
Lul just the same argument except against the vastly larger group.
As a woman, I honestly believe that we don’t matter to trans women, and most progressives. They would happily obliterate nearly a century of what women have achieved. Trans women are so desperate to be seen as “real women” that biological women just might as well kick dust. I’m afraid this is causing anger towards trans women, and it won’t end nicely.
This is just like the argument that tampons are somehow transphobic.
It doesn’t matter what this kid thinks, because he will never get a majority of women to agree to abolishing women’s sports.
We need a follow-up stream and see if this kid is still this delusional.
This dude needs to just say "I care more about trans women than cis women"
That is 100% what they're trying to argue at this point.
Trans ppl in sports don’t just involve women….
@@matthewsocoollike well when a Trans man is able to compete with Cis men at a high level, we can address tha. to my knowledge that has not happened yet. Therefore the discussion would be speculative and perfunctory
@@matthewsocoollike Holy Macaroni Batman I never fucking realized. Like did you even watch the video? That guy only argued on behalf of trans women for an hour. And the sentiment of his argument is that trans women are more deserving of a safe competitive space than cis women. All the way to the point of removing gendered sports.
@@XxHistorikxX how is saying trans kids should participate in sports saying any of that
@@joeschmoe2202 that's not even what that dude was arguing bro what. He literally said he doesn't care if women get pushed out of the top level of sports. He acknowledged that trans women have an advantage over cis women, and that trans men do not have an advantage over cis men. His entire argument is that there aren't enough trans athletes to make a real impact.
The issue isn't that cis women will be entirely replaced by trans women, it's that a peak cis woman can never reach the same peak that a trans woman can. Ffs
this dude basically discounting all of women's sport because he doesn't think it's important enough is actually nauseating
and it should COMPLETELY discredit his arguement because if womens sports aren't important why should we care about trans people in sports if they are a tiny tiny % that somehow are blowing records and taking over? Why would i want to allow them to destroy womens sports and records? These people don't understand lives are literally ruined, places are taken, money lost, records destroyed that people worked their whole career to set..
That wasn’t his pint
They said years ago, the left can never be 'progressive enough' that it's a circle. This is proof. This kids logic will remove ALL women from sport. I don't understand how a few people can't see that.
@@Lyrxxjene It wasn't his point, but pragmatically he would render cis women sports to nothing with his ideas.
@@Lyrxxjene he stated it several times over.
Sitting down for almost 2 hours with this guy should earn you some kind of medal. Absolute insanity
Right? Destiny is INSANE!
@@bobzombie2710
G
Can't stand Sinthe, crap person all around.
"20% of women leaving sports is worth 0.3% of the population being allowed to play, what's wrong with that?"
If getting rid of the segregation is fine for cis women then why shouldn't trans women just stay in the men's grouping if it doesn't matter.
why have i not heard this argument be made in any of these discussions. if they truely beleive womens leagues shouldnt exist, then they cant argue that transwomen shouldnt be in mens leagues, 'because its just not that big a deal is it'. problem solved.
Because it all boils down to transwomen's need for validation as women.
They'd rather screw cis women over than to not get that validation, so now the eternal loop in the online discourse revolves around semantics until the trans community shame the Sport industry into opening that door permanently.
Because the trans women in women’s league is a political push to try and valide the « trans women are women » narrative, mostly.
@@harryseaton7444 Their argument I believe, I think this freak show made the point once or twice, that the problem with trans women being in mens divisions is that it goes against trans acceptance. So the reason as to why they're capable of holding these two seemingly contradicting positions at the same time is because they believe one goes against trans acceptance and one doesn't.
@@Shadowh8ter But "men's leagues" don't really exist. I believe for most sports there is an Open League and then there is a Women's League.
What was it last year? A female soccer player did kickoffs for a college football team. Pretty sure NBA allows women. Along with the NFL, MLB, NHL... etc...
This guy is super insanely progressive, but also wants to remove women from competitive sports, but somehow advocates for that in a super progressive way. What a world we live in
Yo' Bayaz!
"Power makes all the things right, this is my first law and my last"
It’s not progressive. He’s simply saying he cares more about trans people than females. Anything that contradicts equality isn’t progressive.
Kingston Hawke The most self-serving little weasel you can possibly imagine. He's not a woman, probably has nothing to do with us (either because he's gay or an incel), therefore doesn't give a shit about our perspective or our rights. Completely self-involved.
The case of being so woke, you fall back asleep
At this point every fascist matter could be advocate under the disguise of being progressive and I bet people support it lmao 🤡
It is so wild to see these ‘progressives’ not realize how misogynist and deeply dismissive to women they are. I was rolling when he said/implied cheerleading was the primary sport for HS women, followed by volleyball, full stop. He’s so dismissive of cheerleading as well, like ‘oh, that stupid girl sport, who gives a f*k about that.’ This s**t is priceless.
I felt the same. I did cheerleading and I remember a time fighting for the right to be considered an actual "sport". It's also like they forgot that in HS girls played basketball, softball, soccer and track, not just cheerleading and volleyball, like those sports don't even exist for the elementary through high school years for females. My mom graduated in the 70s and played basketball for her HS. Just to add my son did wrestling from age 7 through high school. There were girls who wrestled too but only a hand full in the whole state so not even to form a female league. They had to wrestle the boys. A female placed in regionals but once puberty hit between both sexes she hardly won matches.
When did he say cheerleading is the primary sport for women in HS and, more importantly, when destiny read from his list, was cheerleading considered as a sport for the purpose of the list?
This poor dude actually thinks Serena Williams would be happy to be playing ranked 500 men in Tennis and losing consistently to the ranked 450 men assuming that she even got on a televised match in her life.
Like sure, she's technically not getting any actual airtime and sponsorships, but don't you realize that she will finally be competing with the 500th best players? That's progress for women in sports, baby!
If this guy is ok abolishing gender entirely from sports, and just having an open division where everyone competes. Then what's his issue with trans women just competing in the men's sports and leaving cis women's sports alone?
Because it leans to the argument that "trans women aren't women" because they aren't participating with other women.
Its a very stupid mindset but these people (and probably some trans people) will think in their head "If I can't do X activity that women do, then I'm not a real female".
It also gives people who are anti trans another argument to use to say "trans aren't real women because look they do Y instead of X activity that women do".
Putting non gendered divisions in place would have everyone competing against everyone thus trans people would think "I'm participating in the same division as women therefore I am a women".
But don't get me wrong this is all very fucking stupid and obviously trans women should not be in women's division.
Exactly my thoughts
It would probably have to be called the “open division” rather than the “men’s division” where cis women, cis men, trans women and trans men can all compete. It would basically just be cis men at the highest level but you would see the other groups in the lower divisions.
@@fishbiter9409 "Men's" sports are ALREADY open division. There have been women in the NHL etc.
I think destiny said mens sports are open
“Women are kicking at D1 levels”
“Wait what do you mean? Kicking in what”
“I guess …football? I don’t know. It doesn’t matter”
This person has never watched a sport in their life.
16:47
Another point that they know nothing about sport. They keep saying 'yeah trans women have an advantage, but it's not that big'... Do they not know the margins in most high level sports? Like if a velodrome cyclist is 1% faster than the competition... they will will 100% of the events. They don't need to be a 30ft tall basketball player. But a team of basketball players each with 0.5% of a speed or reach or endurance advantage will just win way way way more.
@@chronographer A 5-10% advantage in a lot of sports would be the difference between not even being close to making the olympics and literally being the undisputed GOAT.
They couldn't decide if what they heard was about American football or soccer.
There was a woman who was a kicker on a men's college American football team. I assume that what they meant but their brain short circuited
@@killzone866 I think you’re right. I assume they read something in chat and just regurgitated it without knowing what they were saying.
@@MrJBlich the funny thing is that goes against their point as the transwomen could just compete with the men as they are already at the apex of women's leagues
I find it hillarious there is 0 cis women in all these discussions.
Cis women are rarely involved in these discussions for some reason. It's usually dominated by men and trans women.
Very few cis women do political debates on twitch/youtube in general, not surprising at all.
Cis women are scared of being called transphobic. That's why the only women on Lias team who spoke out was the women who placed just shy of making finals and only after she lost her spot.
@@JR-wf5kg Another teammate spoke out but they had to manipulate her voice and not show her face. It’s that bad.
Top right.
When we created womens sports, we understood "woman" as "adult human female". Even if you personally define the word woman differently today, you will have to acknowledge that fact.
So, we created sports categories for human females (girls and women), and we did have a reason for that.
And those reasons where:
1) We wanted to give women the opportunity to compete among each other for
1a) Glory
1b) Money
1c) Safety reasons (in some sports)
2) We wanted to know what women are generally capable of (that's generally the goal of competition)
If we add trans-women to womens sports, we will discourage all women (50% of the population) from doing competitive sports. It's pretty hard to train 8 times 2 hours a week just to be pushed out of top 3 by three trans-women who train half as much.
So, we discourage 50% of the population from doing sports, in order to encourage 0.01% (or whatever) of the population? That simply doesn't add up.
I gained so much respect for Destiny in this conversation. Not so much because of his position, but because he was able to get through a discussion with this moron. I wanted to brain myself less than half way through.
Half? 9:47 for me.
@@cec21025 I was being generous. 😂
the moment he'd say word "chess" I'd just kick him through his screen. joking, but I'd just go "chess? could you be more bad faith to go with chess out of all sports. even if women and men would be equal there, what's your point? well, at least women have chess to compete in?"
The guy had some good points he just gets rhetorically rolled by Destiny.
@@davidtavares5221 huh? the guy's main points: 1) look, it's not as bad if women won't get fair competition 2)not enough cis women lost yet to conclude anything, but agreed, that trans women have advantage over cis. 3) cis women have chess left. Even in chess it's wrong, but even if it'd be right, then nice, yeah, couple sports, great, seems fair.
This is the most brain damaged argument I've ever seen. Not enough people watch women's sports so we can just get rid of it and the best women will still get recognition anyway placed 500th (what about the next 30 best??)
But there's enough Trans women who want to compete that we can fundamentally change the way we have sports??? How is this dudes brain not imploding with contradiction.
This is a literally insane argument, completely dismisses women and has zero logical base. Even by his own argument he's lost because he claims not enough people watch women's sports for it to matter. Arguing we can completely remove 50% of the population from the chance to compete fairly in anything. So how in the world are there enough Trans women for them to matter in sports???? I'm shook.
because they don't reach conclusions based on evidence available, they have a conclusion and try to create evidence that aligns with their conclusion.
In all honesty, it's dismissing women to say that having them compete with men would dismiss them. Almost nobody who ever plays sports ever has a shot at the top - ever, from birth - and they learn this really early on in life, yet they still compete at all levels. Those runners going up against Bolt or those swimmers going up against Phelps who were like best in their country, or even second best in Jamaica or America, KNOW that the only shot they have at the top is if the top fucks up, yet an entire field of people still compete. I think that the only women who would become discouraged and quit are either women who would quit anyway because they're not the best or women who don't recognize trans women as equally woman to them. "Trans women are women" doesn't mean that we merely treat trans women as if they were women, it means that a trans woman IS a woman, that it is possible for women to be born with penises and testes, that a part of the female experience is that some women have misaligned bodies to varying degrees and we shouldn't say "oh your body is too immutably out of whack to compete". THAT'S what it means that trans women are women.
1. This dude has definitely never played a sport
2. This dude has an embarrassingly bad understanding of the long term effects of PED’s
3. This dude is the worst debater I’ve ever seen on this platform
4. This dude has an unbelievable lack of any kind of comprehension skill, couldn’t follow a single argument. Never seen anything quite like it on this scene.
5. This was a major black pill
6. Both of you were wrong about ultramarathon runners
Thanks for not proposing the apparent common sense argument that you hold at arms length.
It seemed like he was too focused on talking as fast as possible
@@JaredandTasha That is a hilarious thing to say on Destiny's channel.
@@slipstreammonkey yea but i dont feel like that’s Destinys goal, the opponents goal here was to squirm out of corners by asking a really long irrelevant question
@@slipstreammonkey Huh? He didn't bring up a common sense argument.
I miss the good old days whenever objective reality was just objective reality and we didn't have to classify and clarify every literal thing we say and do.
Wow. At the point of being not transphobic, that dude went full on sexist. Fucking WOW
well its okay to be sexist now, just so long as it's for being pro lgbt!
Thats the violent cycle of political correctness/SJW behavior.
It will always cycle around and devour itself.
Because in its nature, it cannot be satisified because changes will always create new differences.
You know how many times. I've heard "that's a slippery slope fallacy" by some leftist over the years when confronted with this very prediction.
It's almost like sometimes if things are left unchallenged due to censorship or fear they lead to more regressive ideology.
Now big tech fosters and protects those ideologies and is now on there way silencing any challengers by labeling them hateful or offensive.
It's a good thing this cancer eats itself.
This debate gave me a headache. It's like we're trying to explain why we have Mens and Women's leagues to a gender less alien race.
I kind of agree with him in a way, not personally but his argument is the natural progression of leftie logic, wanting equality for all etc. ***edit*** to go even further, I agree with him partially that the genderless system already exists, women leagues dont compete with top mens leagues etc etc, but I get the feeling his argument somehow lacks the understanding that women are part of society, like he bought the "patriarchy" theory a little too hard. If somehow you got rid of womens sports they would bring it back within a year, 5 years, 50 etc how does he not know women are part of these decisions and vote. Thats not even considering the trans part of it, in his system no trans will win a medal most probably either. don't see how it fixes anything.
This guy is so delusional. Venus and Serena Williams which are absolute legends in women tennis have easily been beaten by a man ranked 200. He is just okay to let fall these women into irrelevancy, it's so wrong at an individual level for these women with their incredible careers and at societal level for the women watching. He also completly misses the money aspect of having these gender category. Maybe the best women could get sponsorships but most women would not be able to live from their sport as they could make any appearance at big tournaments. The cherry on the top is that it would also wipes out trans athlete
@@pf4877 They're responding to the stated long-term goal of completely eliminating gender categories in sports. This comment wasn't about transwomen in women's sports, it was about not having women's divisions at all. That's why they said "The cherry on the top is that it would also wipes out trans athlete".
@@pf4877 I think that example is trying to point out why an open league would push women out because unfortunately even the top women would be below the men, rather than the impact of trans women competing.
@@pf4877 if I'm remembering right, the dude was buzzed because he was drinking before the games and still crushed them. I think that evens out with any hormone blockers if you can win while nearly drunk
Weak men telling strong women what they can and cant allow in their sports. Feels too ironic to be a coincidence.
Weak people telling normal people what they can't do is too much of the discourse now.
Who's telling anyone what to do? They are just stating opinions and beliefs.
@@RobReiththat’s the same thing, their opinions are about what ought to be.
The trans issue is the only issue where I’m not progressive on. I feel like trans and their supporters are disingenuous. Trans people absolutely deserve to exist freely, safety and with respect but to pretend there aren’t any differences is so unfair
SOME OF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT COULD BE TO BE A WOMAN FOR ONLY A FEW WEEKS THEN WIN A RACE AND NOT BE ACCEPTED BY YOUR SISTERS!! THESE BEAUTIFUL BRAVE WOMEN NEED PROTECTION FROM YOU HATERS !! THEY MAY HAVE A PENIS, THEY MAY HAVE MALE CHROMOSOMES ECT BUT THEY ARE 100%, WOMEN !! THEY ARE BRAVE AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN !! STOP BEING JEALOUS !! THEY DONT WANT TO MAKE MONEY !! THEY WANT TO JUST RUN !!! RUN LIKE THE WIND WITH NO ONE TO STOP THEM !!! INTO THE FEMINITY OF THE FUTURE !! BLESS THESE BRAVE NEW WOMEN !! PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THESE WOMEN ARE MEN !!! THEY ARE 100%, WOMEN !! THEY JUST HAVE A PENIS !!!
They also act like playing a sport is a right when it’s more of a privilege.
All these discussions have made me think most trans people live in a fantasy world. This is the least factual position I've ever heard Destiny argue against. This is flat earth level.
I mean the moment someone said the phrase « assigned male at birth » you know the thing rests on shaky grounds
Been saying this for a while and they continue to live in that world because people entertain their bs and never hit them with facts.
Agreed, it’s preposterous
Pretty much do. These people live in online social bubbles and actively avoid even having to be in the same room with anyone who doesn't agree with them.
That's why they falsely view Trans women in female sports as a left/right issue. In reality, its them having a radical point of view that most everyone across the political spectrum are at least skeptical of.
@@daltonwade7908 I think this is the end.
Before it was a lot of "it is a social category"
gender vs sex etc.
But right now they argue for being able to compete in women sports like...actually physically BEING women.
So yeah, I think they flew to close to sun, no one can honestly agree with this position.
When they're talking about a genderless sporting system, I just wish Destiny would have asked, "so you're okay with never having another female olympic medalist?" To not be able to realize that this proposition eliminates 60-70 years of progress is just insane.
This other dude clearly doesn't think that's a problem because he thinks there is no distinction between cis women and trans women. So if trans women win all the medals why should anyone care that it wasn't cis women, it's still women? Basically telling cis women to get fucked, shut up and get back in the kitchen. Oppressing all cis women so trans women can have their spot in the sun. When do we get to start labelling people like this as radical trans activists? Their positions are radical and outside an acceptable place in a reasonable society.
Or even when talking about Serena Williams, she had a win streak of 26 matches between 2012 -2015. Something that wouldnt happen in a genderless system.
This is an excellent counterpoint. However, they will argue for more divisions then, because bronze league is just as good at the silver, gold, platinum leagues. Fun how it the non competitive people telling the athletes to be less competitive.
Well to be fair he did in so many words. He said "so we should just let women fall into like a 4th division?" also "If you made sports genderless then the best women in the world would be like ranked 7000th." Still didn't phase this dude.
Trans women already compete as women in the Olympics, it's been allowed for ages.
Wow. He's completely willing to write off all of women's athletics for such a ridiculous moral point. What a horrible way to look at the world.
"Write off" is kind of a generalization/weasel word, because he's not talking about writing off anything.
@@markwaller8072 Okay. Would it be more fair to say disregard?
@@jameslwjtoler not at all. Nothing is written off or disregarded in any way. This idea seems to come from destiny doing the DM impression and declaring it as fact, but... this simply never happened lol
@@markwaller8072 I hate to disagree, but I heard it directly stated that women's athletics would be dismantled as a result of this, regardless of the intention behind it. You can try to justify that by any means you like, but that is implicit in this discussion.
@@jameslwjtoler oh so when you say "women's athletics" you don't mean women participating in sports, you just mean that there won't be something called "women's soccer" anymore? Ok, well yeah names change when you change who is and isn't allowed in a given league so that makes sense. If you were saying that this would somehow be the end of women participating in sports, you'd be totally wrong though.
One of the most frustrating discussions ever. I never imagined someone's debate mannerisms and tactics could be THIS infuriating. The goal post shifting, dishonesty, bad faith arguments, the way points he acknowledges somehow slide over him without any effect. Oh man. Destiny has the patience of a SAINT.
"the goal post shifting". Making puns are we? XD
@@Furvus_Mortem Lmao I didn't even realize it
He claims women are discouraged from playing sports, and his solution is to make them compete against males. Great job dude.
"What should we do about trans athletes?"
"Eliminate women's sports."
🤔
"I don't want to stop trans people competing because that's what TERFs want."
"I think it doesn't matter if women are only like 7000th in the open leagues against transwomen."
So not wanting to play into TERFs hands, then literally admitting to what the TERFs claim his side is doing. Great.
I wonder why women become terfs hmmmmmm
😂
Destiny, your patience in dealing with this subject is incredible.
True but he also gets paid big $
He said earlier today that he is an odd guy cuz he enjoys it, while most people avoid heated & repetitive exchanges. In other words, he admits he’s lucky personality-wise and he would never do it if his personality was more normal & conflict-avoidant
No its not
Man , at least the flat earthers are fun. What kind of guy would beat up on a girl. Any Trans person that would change gender to win in sports is a narcissist piece.
His opponent also stays impressively calm given that they have such a conflict in opinion.
Is there even a restriction that women can't compete in men's sports? I thought they were just incapable of being competitive.
Yup any women can go to the NBA if they were good enough lmao, the WNBA just BANS men
Its actually funny how that dude showed his true colors depreciating women's sports and trivializing their effort and passion for a sport, that's some internalized misogyny if i've ever seen one
How did he depreciate and trivialize?
@@markwaller8072
When you eliminate the categories you automatically are pushing women out of winning vs biological males. Literally the whole discussion
@@alexshilljones1048 maybe, but it's not one for one. Not every trans athlete is Leia Thomas. There are a tiny number of trans athletes and an even smaller number of trans athletes that could compete at the top -- yes, even with their biological advantages. So it could be true (not saying it is!) that for every 100 trans women you allow to play sports with women, 1 woman loses her place. I think that's a trade I could stand to make if those are the numbers.
@@markwaller8072
You aren't even listening to the argument.
Trans pushing women out is only a minor part of the argument.
The argument is that if we ELIMINATE the categories of male and female in sports, there would not only be less women competing but they wouldn't achieve anything compared to now.
@@markwaller8072
Simply because biological men have physical advantages over their female counter parts. So therefore why would discriminating (men vs women) be a bad thing when it gives women the chance to win.
So like, this person arguing with Destiny, actually pushed me more towards TERF ideals. The complete lack of empathy for CIS women really makes me question the perspective and ideals that they are a proponent of.
Lol for real
Yup.
The lgbt community really are their own worst enemies
Yeah, these people are TERF factories
This guy is really arguing for women not being able to play in professional sports competing vs cis men wtf
trans in sports are gonna push chicks off the soccer field and back in the kitchen. Kinda based tbh, I salute my ample-breasted brothers-in-arms as we stand united to wage the War on Women 😁
Just so there is a space for trans athletes. Ridiculous.
@@DF-we4pt There's already space so there's no reason to completely shit on women's sports.
@@DF-we4pt And the funny thing is that it doesn't create a space for trans athletes. It makes it so that only cis-men can compete at any high level.
@@mchealy90 Exactly.
1:07:20 is when he lost the debate officially "Nobody is talking about eliminating women's sports *right now*"
Accidentally revealed his true agenda Lmao
He says .03% of the population isn’t going to ruin all of women sports it is for the greater good, but since they are the minority wouldn’t the greater good be just how it is now?💀
He wanted to rearrange all sport and basically destroy women's sport for that 0.3%
I imagine that there will be more men in the future that will chose to identify as trans women (and take the minimal treatment required for legal transition) just to be able to be competitive . I mean, some athletes already do crazy things in order to be able to improve their performance (like taking steroids) so it wouldn't be far fetched .
He's right. They wont
@@jeanmarcu1446taking steroids is A BIT different than medically transitioning lmao
@@Mrraerae it is obviousely different but that doesn't mean some people will not do it. Something tells me that there is at least one person in swimming that has done it and is having a lot of succes :)
One of the biggest problems and Destiny's biggest mistakes was calling it womens and mens sports. The truth is that it should be more accurately called Open and womens sports. There are no rules against women, trans women, trans men, or intersex in competing in what we incorrectly call "mens sports". So technically we already have a league for genderless sports that Cinth is advocating for.
The real problem here is people keep calling it womens sports. We call womens sports womens sports because a decade or two ago female was synonymous with woman. Now people want to claim gender is a social construct, meaning anyone can become whichever gender they choose, but biology is still a reality that cannot be changed. Female is a biological term, woman is a gendered term.
We don't have sports separated by gender, we have sports separated by biology. The real problem is people use hijacked language games to try to make their point sound more valid.
They are also sex segregated, not gender segregated. So it really should be 'open' and 'female' sports.
Sinthe* argument invalidated gottem
We need to use the term female sports, bc that's what the issue is. I'm a female athlete & played NCAA, & I promise u that virtually every female athlete will tell u that we aren't competitive against males. Listening to these 🤡 who've never played sports & don't understand Title IX discuss the topics is just .. ughhhh 😆
@@scarletsletter4466 Agreed, and one is all about cancel culture, so easily call people who disagree with the narrative = transphobia.
Funny thing is that male categories in most sports aren't closed to women, they can compete if they want to, they just can't or won't 🙃.
A lot of people dont know this.
Most sports have an "Open" category, or "Women Only" category. But no "Men Only" category.
Yeah its odd how women can't compete with 6'3" men who are 60% stronger and faster lb for lb.
These younger progressives are freaking midwits.
Not entirely true. A top women’s soccer player managed to make the roster for one of Canada’s feeder league teams but the league made them cut her last minute.
Lol what ? Are you talking about kids 😂 because that's a bunch of bs
@@Why-_-So-_-Serious Nope. He's talking about professional leagues. There's no legal NFL/NBA/NHL/etc. rule that excludes women. Women just can't compete.
If women's categories are so unimportant, then why is it such a goal to have trans women play in them.
If we should eliminate women's sports, and trans women are women, then having them play in the men's division shouldn't be a problem. It would actually work _towards_ this bizarre goal of merging the divisions.. right?
What the fuck? A lot of women are encouraged to join sports at an early age. This guy is beyond insane.
my parents never encouraged me to play all sports compared to my brothers. but i'd also say i have almost no interest in sport.
@@Coastpsych_fi99 So firstly you don't care for it, so why would they force you to do it? Secondly that you as an individual. Women everywhere are encouraged to play, it's just not as many do compared to men
To be fair to him, he basically said he’s not often in the business of being around women so he didn’t really know if that was accurate
@@LegiamasC-OnTwitta He's completely stupid because this is literally the most common thing you find out in highschool. A lot of girls are literally playing sports in highschool. It's like the first thing you learn when you get into highschool. 😑
@@Coastpsych_fi99 why even bring it up? nothing of your point contributed to anything
This pisses me off sooooo much. Like my brain is literally melting. How dare a man make the claim that women's sports are basically useless and need to be eliminated. Im proud to be a woman. I love being a woman. I wouldn't ever want to fucking compete against a man! No woman would ever win against a man. Do uou think that the best WNBA player would be able to win against a LeBron James or Michael Jordan? I think the best women's swimmer would be able to compete and win against Michael Phelps? Do you think the best woman sprinter would be able to compete and win against Usain bolt? Like what the fuck are we even talking about here?? I'm progressive but this progressive shit has gone way too fucking far and is literally fighting against the fabrics of reality! I'm tired.
He didn't make that claim though
Him: "bUt i'M nOt a mAn i'M nOn-bInArY"
They're freaking misogynists. The whole trans ideology is based on stereotypes about women. Transwomen say they're women based on porn-sick sexualization of women.
Destiny is wrong too for claiming transwomen are women all the damn time, and then saying they can't compete in women's sports. Does he recognize the cognitive dissonance? Like no, transwomen are men and men shouldn't compete in women's sports.
@@markwaller8072 no, but he’s assuming while not being a cis woman that his idea is better for cis women because he thinks so based on no evidence. He’s a misogynist.
@@PsycholosopherJust because he doesn’t understand (I disagree with him too) doesn’t mean he hates women. A misogynist means you hate women. It also downplays what misogynists really is. Just like when people say Transphobic or Homophobic. It totally ignores what a phobia means.
As a woman who's played contact sports - there was never any social pressure to keep me out of sports. Ever. Not even once. I was raised by conservatives in the south and they didn't give a fuck if I did martial arts/played basketball/did wrestling/played softball.
Women are not pushed away from sports, they're pushed into different sports from men, but they're both pushed into sports.
Yeah this is the sort of cartoonish view of reality that these people have, there's an echo chamber circle jerk of activists who reinforce these ideological talking points but haven't engaged with reality at all. I'm 38 and even when I was at school, sports were mandatory for both sexes all the way up until college. You have to remember that these radicals are very often social constructivists, they don't see real differences in men and women, or with "people" more broadly, they think differences exist either entirely or mostly due to social pressures. A lot of the difference in interest in sport, especially competitive sport is down to differences in biology, testosterone for example makes people more aggressive and eager to compete and so engage in sports which are inherently competitive arenas. It's why doctrines of equality are really dangerous ideas, men and women are fundamentally different, and we should embrace and celebrate that and not be bitter and angry and want to change the world.
This didn't use to happen, your experiences are merely proof that the values of Feminism have slowly and subtly influenced all citizens, even conservatives.
@@timekeeper2538 bro girls have been playing sports since the 1800s AT LEAST. Are you okay????
I'd argue conservatives push people to do sports and outdoor and seld defense activities more than progressive leftists would.. the lefties like the dude on the right almost seem to be against physical activity so they don't mind if those spaces are destroyed. There is a pattern of them simply not caring about anything but Trans people. Trans people are their god
That whole social pressure conversation was so dumb and useless. Even had someone in chat make me give them sources, and when I provided one, they said it was too late cuz it was from 2019..... I don't think his arguments were all completely bad but sometimes you just can't argue with dumb.
I never would have guessed that we'd be here arguing this stuff 10 years ago. Amazing.
I can’t believe this person really tried to claim racial segregation in sports was on the basis of athletic performance. Actually unbelievable.
Ive heard phrenology can determine all sorts of characteristics, why dont we just use that to categorize sports?
@@cceste6885 My unga bunga caveman brow puts me in the low leagues of discus because it blocks the horizon. :/
@@Winasaurus That's tragic fam
@@Winasaurus Feels
This person: No one watches womens sports so fuck’em lol
Also this person: if all sports were just an open category absolutely people would sponsor and support the best women playing at rank 1000.
Hats off to the moderator though. He was super proactive, this could've gone off the rails way harder.
They try so hard with this subject and they still sound all over the place. 😂 I don’t know why they insist on showing support for trans people in the most idiotic ways. People not watching women’s sports has nothing to do with the subject at hand. It’s just a sassy dismissal of the conversation because they have no real response.
Point me to the timestamp where he said the first thing.
Meanwhile yesterday during the Women's Champions League you had over 91.000 people in the stadium watching the quarter finals. LMAO
But sure, "nobody watches women's sport"...
@@codyb.3015 I said there were 91,000 people in the STADIUM.
The Women's World Cup final was watched by over 82 million people; the entire Women's World Cup by over 1.1 Billion people.
@@Vicente_Moreno 18:05
This is why it's impossible to debate with people that have gone to far right or left. You start having to understand and accept the mental gymnastics they've invented to justify their world view. You end up arguing presuppositions that are largely, if not entirely, unfounded.
I mean...isnt that kind of the point in a debate? Test ones theory to find loop holes and other questionables. Then update theory and start over to infinity.
@@JiminyCricketsYes, but his stance has no grounding. He’s comparing race segregation, something justified then by means of research claiming biological differences that have been deemed false and hateful, to the indisputable differences between men and women. It doesn’t stem from bigotry to give women their own division like it did excluding people of color. He literally has to put this truth aside to some degree to think he’s arguing it in good faith. He’s genuinely delusional.
@@caluhhhb 30 mins in and everytime destiny finds a flaw or tries to explain his point on the flaw he just says ''thats not relevent to the conversation'' to dodge it lmao when he drove it there
@@JiminyCricketsno. The point of debate is not to try to argue with insane people.
@Demirx00 and then when he says something crazy, he phrases it I'm a question, but then says "right" as if to confirm what he just said was true.
People missing this point always drives me insane:
Having an unfair advantage in sports has nothing to do with beating everyone. You could use drugs, participate in a race, finish last and you would still have an unfair advantage because of the drugs. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it matters if you are boosting your own performance with an unfair advantage; for example by going through male puberty when your competitor hasn't gone through male puberty.
I think the idea of trans women becoming more accepted due to their increasing representation in sports is absolutely wrong. In my opinion trans acceptance will decrease over time due to cis women having lower chances to be competetive in sports.
Yeah, this is not going away. As long as women are being put at disadvantage people will not accept this. It will never stop being a problem.
@n30n Once people started claiming that transness was dependent upon identity alone it gave an avenue for those that are usually considered “privileged” (white males) an avenue to become “the oppressed” and unleash their anger.
Yeah, this topic is pushing me to peak trans.
@n30n Well said
@n30n well I guess it depends on what you mean by "criticism". (I mean, tbh, what even is there to "criticize" about trans people? Without generalizing an entire group of people, that is. You could criticize an individual, but trans people as a whole? I'm curious.)
Are people getting mad over genuine criticism, or are people getting mad at blantant rudeness under the guise of "criticism"?
I'm not active on social media beyond cat videos, so I wouldn't know what you're talking about specifically. But often times I see people claim a particular group "can't take criticism" only for said "criticism" to be rudeness/hate. If you say something offensive, people are allowed to be offended. Imo at least if you cannot handle people reacting to the things you say, on the internet of all places, you really shouldn't be saying anything at all. You can't go online and expect people to swallow your every word and post unchallenged.
Also, I don't think trans acceptance was *ever* big in the first place. I find it hard to believe acceptance is "plummeting" when it was never necessaries accepted in the first place. If your entire worldview is centered around the internet, sure, trans acceptance might seem commonplace. But in the real world things are very different.
also whoa, a moderator that can actually shut people up. Didn't think that existed on social media
dude's dangerously competent, i hope he realizes that the internet is for more special people and goes on to be successful in the real world
Requires melanin
why do leftists always look weak ?
@@FlashxSwazy prime...
@@PatrickOMulligan oh fuck 😂
The reason this is so annoying because it sounds like this guy has never played a sport in his life but gets to speak for all women in sports and was so mindblown by destiny saying hs boys basketball teams could beat WNBA teams they definitely could
Yeah, wasn’t there a thing where the US womens soccer team lost to a HS boys team?
@@ogolthorp Yes, they were rank 1 in the world at the time. This regularly happens to Women's Teams that are competing the world cup. They will play high school teams of the hosting nation to practice.
The guy is a typical woke misogynist
WE GOTTA GET SOME FEMALE ATHLETES IN THESE CONVOS
ikr, that twig talking as though he's an expert at sports lol
The NBA is an example of a genderless professional sports league. Anyone can try to make a team, and the results have historically been comprised entirely of male athletes.
The league has grown in big part by emphasizing sustainability, competition, and entertainment at the highest levels. It’s a talent-driven league; elite performance is easy to market
Same thing with the NFL. There are no rules saying women can't play.
But would they support Lebanon James joining the wnba? If he said he was a woman? How is this aloud by sports officials? This is worse than flat earth arguments to me. How do so many people believe it's ok for males to beat females.
@@tronapostle1322 NHL too. There was even a woman that tended goal for at least one game. I can't remember which team but that was way back in the 90s.
Edit: Manon Rhéaume tried out for the Tampa Bay Lightning in 1992 playing in a preseason game that year as well as another in '93.
@@tronapostle1322 correct. MLB, too and NHL as well. We haven’t seen women fill any of these rosters, nor the farm systems which supply them.
If people continue asking “why” while only listening for the preferred answers, then I expect to see things get a lot nastier all around this issue
this whole debate and arguments brought me back to 2014 feminism arguing men and women are physically equal. that's crazy
This guy obviously has never competed. He has no idea what he is talking about. 2 to 4 years can be devastating in the world of athletics. And the fact that a trans woman can’t compete against biological women when they are out of their prime and still win should be a huge indicator that trans women competing in biological women’s sports should not happen.
Facts, they acted like 2-4 years wasn't that long. At the low end that's literally over half of your college career. If you get caught as a freshman you aren't playing again until senior year.
the fact that he said 2years isnt long for someone at the top of a competitive sport is a huge red flag that he has never competed and has 0 idea about sport in general.
You take 2 years off you lose the edge, your training would suffer a very low % of people would come back and be competitive after said layoff.
@@tristanmeadows and his assumption that womens athletes wouldnt care about getting their ranks and championships eliminated. He doesnt understand that women want to be champs; they dont want to be ranked 7000 in a mixed league.
You gotta love people who don’t compete in any physical demanding activity are the ones sitting behind computers with soft hands dictating how we should be eliminating the sex categories in sports . lol
How do you know they don’t engage in physical demanding activity? Tf?
@@Andrewoo99 they don’t look physically active
@@Andrewoo99 this guy has never been out of his house look at him he looks like golem
@Andre Wait isn’t a fun term “terminally online” ? Go touch some grass? Streamers are not doing anything physically demanding, The beautiful irony is we have people who are fine w/ eliminating sex in sports yet none of them have a single dog in the fight.
@@Andrewoo99 Do you have eyes, if someone's below average BMI and looks paler than a ghost odds are they haven't competed at state/national level in a sport and and shouldn't be dictating their opinion onto those that have. They're allowed to have an opinion but these scrawny, fat, terminally-online activists that break a sweat walking to the fridge want to impose that opinion onto people who have lived experiences and knowledge directly contradictory to their deluded online view of the world.
Imagine the mental gymnastics of thinking not allowing women to be the best in their league and champions of women’s divisions and thinking 50% of the plane is a “small percentage” vs the argument that we should dissolve all categories in sports for 1% of society to feel better. Or “more fair”
I can't remember the last time I saw Destiny legit get dumbfounded by how stupid someone he's debating is ahaha
I don’t know who he’s debating, but this fella has a rare level of misguided confidence.
He lost track once the guy started saying trans women and cis men grow up with different social pressures. There’s some chance he doesn’t know what it means to be a trans woman. Hint: Both trans women and cis men both grew up as boys
This guy actually seems smart, because he’s very good at shifting the goal post in sneaky ways. Any time Destiny is making a really good point, he confidently acts like he’s making some own on an argument Destiny never made. Not only does it SOUND good if you aren’t listening closely, it’s confusing to keep up with. The issue is this guy is insanely slimy and dishonest.
@@astrorob6985 He’s a smart guy but he picked the conclusion he wants to be true and he’s working backwards from there.
He agrees there is an advantage, but he waves that away as “insignificant” which is just a vague dodging of the issue.
He is also intentionally misinterpreting the idea of “pushing women out.” He keeps framing it as though it means trans women will replace all cis women. He fails to acknowledge that all it takes is ONE trans woman to ruin the integrity of an entire sport.
He thinks cis women should settle for playing at a disadvantage against trans women. Why? Because he thinks it’s unfair for trans women to play at a disadvantage against cis men. The level of hypocrisy is immeasurable
@@JesusChristsDick oh yeah I 100% agree. His takes are absolute dog shit and his main goal is to try and sound more right than Destiny. It was actually difficult listening to, I have no clue how Destiny didn’t just leave the call
It's driving me nuts that the other side doesn't realize we've been here already, when then say "we don't know what would happen, women could compete on the same levels." That's why women's leagues were created in the first place. The separation was a solution to a problem - mainly that the average woman could not compete at the same levels in many sports, compared to men.
It seems trans women get caught in the middle of this issue and I get it - I'm not trying to be a dick and hurt anyone. I just don't think a male that has had male puberty would be fair competition to a female - regardless if they identify as a woman or not.
I can be a dick and say, any person that would change thier gender to win at sports is an narcissist or worse. Men used to protect women from jerks.
I bet that genderless divisions would create more
contempt towards women and would most certainly downplay their achievements.
Yeah, the fact that there's actually a push by males to destroy competitive sports for females who comprise 51% of the population, & these males consider themselves progressive, is just tragic
@@scarletsletter4466 Push by males? You think it's just men who are out of touch and never done any athletics trans advocates?
Women not in general, not a little, no even a bit can compete with athletic males in any sport that requires the body to be used in some explosive way.
"Division three football on tv: do they even happen?" *moderator shakes head*
In real life, no one is going to sponsor a potential competitor knowing they'd be like rank 3000. I wouldn't even want to compete for such place. That basically is the end of a lot of athlete's careers.
Edited: the longer this conversation goes on the more tradcon he appears to be, seriously: "women near only play sportslike cheerleading so it's not a big deal"
that's why they have recreational leagues called "adult (insert sport here)" where the ppl that werent as tall as shaq or not able to handle a golf club like tiger can compete.
And when he said nobody watches top womens sports, man, what a bunch of shit. Las leonas, the argentinian national hockey (not ice) team is huge here. A vast majority of the people that are into sports watch them play. In fact they pull way bigger numbers than the male national team, I'm sure. This team wouldn't even exist on his ideal no gender sports, they would be a random neighborhood team that wouldn't even be televised. He doesn't even know what he is talking about.
@@Igelme yeah, those statements really bothered me as well.
They could have easily come out of the mouth of an ultra conservative or something. Horseshoe theory once again.
@@lmbaseball15 Muggsy Bogues was 5"3' and played NBA, small people can play basketball. Being tall doesn't exclude you from playing
@@alvdp5891 Yea but you know about him and his height because he was like hyper-exceptional. There's a reason no other players as short as him have been as succesful
35:23 thats 100% true. All these people arguing over all these sports things have never compete in sports in any real capacity and its ironic that destiny has to point this out. He routinely has to bring this up. The people who argue this shit are just totally out of their depth and have NO clue how big the difference is
"Why do you keep straw manning" says the guy who's entire argument is a strawman. You can't make this sh*t up.
Evidently you can...
When this clown said “We divide teams by Nationality out of bigotry” as a retort I actually became physically ill.
"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too"
This poetic masterpiece of a song is where he got his degenerate ideas from.
It's literally why we have women sports, because people want to be represented.
because he is clearly so biased he cant see hes being bigoted towards women in sports
The problem is all these lefties do is shit sling and Destiny took the bait every time rather than addressing the original point.
There should be rules to enter a debate: Be over the age of 25, Have left your bedroom in the last 24h, have experienced a sexual relationship. This would eliminate 70% of online leftists and greatly improve the quality of the discourse by moving it into the realm of reality.
Facts, pretty sure most are just joining the lefty mob to get laid by a nonbinary deergender person lmao
Based af. Hard agree.
Don’t forget to add playing a physically demanding sport for at least 2 years. Also your comment is based
Yeah but then there would be no more debates ever
Argument ended in the first minute when the proponent of trans sport forgets that trans men are a category… this is only about men entering women’s sports
"Oh, you confused basketball with soccer, I WON, LET US LAUGH!!!!"
How are these people real?
That's literally any Biden 'own'.
I know like it being soccer changes anything 🤣 soccer is an insanely physically demanding high pace sport
I almost had a REEE moment when he said that lol
While arguing that chess is perfectly analogous to football or basketball
Lol he actually believes that high school and college male.basketball players couldn't destroy the WNBA. As if soccer vs basketball even matters. Our country is doomed 😂😂😂😂😂
As a female athlete, I can tell you that we simply aren't competitive against males in most sports. Making us compete against males will fundamentally change female sports & disincentivize us from doing sports at all. 51% (the majority) of humans are female, so destroying the integrity of competitive sports for us will negatively impact all of society. Sports are important for a stress outlet, learning teamwork, & getting college scholarships.
Saying t-women are women has nothing to do with competing against females in sports. It blows my mind that these males somehow don't understand the difference in bio sex M/F vs the social construct of gender ie, man/woman
You probably voted Joe Biden L o l
The edgy joke is to say they’ve never overpowered a women in bed, but even just an arm wrestling contest in a middle school class will do
I blame only child's the amount of people that think woman and men have the same strength is insane,
Even when a women is at 80kg and a man is at 80kg the woman will still have less physical strength and people will look at you like your insane for saying it.
That female athletes cant compete against male athletes in itself is not an argument against transwomen in women sport. You need to add that HRT does not make males allign with female athletes on a competetive level.
As a (former) Martial arts competitor I could not imagine a 6'1 women ever being competitive against a 5'6 man in any full contact competition as serious amateur or above, the difference in reaction time, coordination and "toughness" is just that big, I am told the level for testosterone a transwoman to be able to compete was 288(from the Lia case), I had a period of my life where I was about that level as a man, I felt kinda crap and I was not competing at the time but still.
This dude is saying that the "social harm" of not allowing trans women to compete in sports is so great, that he essentially wants cis women to get almost completely dumpstered on and become irrelevant in competitive sports, and he states that the "social harm" 8n doing that is negligible..... like what???
Doesn't have to be true it only has to feeeeel true.
The one part of this whole discussion that I don't understand is this idea that cis women are getting destroyed and being made irrelevant by trans women in sports. Where is this happening wtf??
Show me where this happens
@@kidmidas2029
Trans arent destroying cis women at your local high school basketball game or swim meet because they are so rare.
But
Once you go higher up the ladder when it becomes best of the best in professional competive sports a few are not only dominating but breaking records.
Lia Thomas broke six records in one event. One race she one by a staggering 38 seconds.
There are plenty of other instances at the top of the competitive ladders. Trans power lifters are smoking the competition and setting records aswell.
All across the competitive sports spectrum there is a fear that they will one day be pushed out.
The only thing stopping a complete takeover is the rarity of Trans people. Give it a few years when more come into the sports. A cis women holding a record will be a rarity.
@@kidmidas2029 Stop living under a rock and use google, do you not read the news?
I’m glad destiny keeps brining the convo back to the main point. A lot of these guys start talking about an million mute points away from the point
moot*
This is the product of selecting an ideology and trying to form your logic to follow it, rather than following logic to the most sensible ideology.
This guy has never played sports, enjoyed sports, or cared about sports, or has ever had a girlfriend or female family member or friend that has played sports.
i could never keep debating someone so obviously dishonest.
What scares me is I don't think he is being dishonest. He actually believes this...
@@lincolnwillis3345 Still says things where it turns out he doesn't even know what that sentence of phrase means.
Clearly has no interest in actual honest and factual debate. Will say anything to push his side.
Doesn't know the most basic things but goes on to debate the topic, with great confidence. It's typical i guess.
I don't think he is dishonest, I think he just stupid
When that trans chick won gold in the olympic swimming competition a while back, I can't imagine how heartbreaking it was for the biological females. Train your entire life for a man to take your gold medal in the olympics.
Jesus fuck I'm losing brain cells listening to this guy. Destiny has the patience of a saint. I'm losing mine. Like, I'm slightly on the progressive side, but listening to this dude talk...
If Synth really cared about the "social utility", they'd accept that trying to crowbar Trans women into women's sport is **increasing** Transphobia, not reducing it.
How many "allies" do you think Lia Thomas won over? I would guess it would be negative.
I can testify to this as someone who is a center-right conservative, I understand a lot of the conservative takes on trans issues and many of them are pushing back against the insanity of the radicals because they think it's somehow what "trans people" as a group want, when that's actually kinda not true. Many more of the moderate conseratives who are already fine with homosexuality or bisexuality are going to be fine to accept trans people into society, but it has to be a sane and level headed approach which doesn't deny the basic reality of biology or seek to destroy distinctions of things like males and females. The best thing the more progressive and left leaning people can do is actually focus on fighting back against the radicals (as Destiny is rightly doing) and you'll have a platform that attracts more of society and make life functionally better for trans people.
@@Frosty-oj6hw you're preaching to the choir mate lol. I'm also on the Right and couldn't agree more.
That being said, Right Wingers meeting up in a Destiny comment section probably isn't doing good image any good lol. Which is a depressing thing to say.
@@jamiehayes7353 Yeah my comment was in reply to you but it was also more broadly aimed at the community in general. DGG seems to be more left leaning for sure but I think they're way more moderate than most other communities, which is a good thing for the reasons I outlined. Neither side of the political divide is ever going to go away or be won over, there's this stupid notion both groups have that somehow we "win" if we only have the right tactics, which is really dumb and counter productive. Communities that facilitate middle ground, places to find common agreement, they foster positive changes in society, but it means denouncing the radicals on both sides. Basically it's a compliment to the community that I think Destiny has a good stance on this and the community backing him is also good.
@@Frosty-oj6hw I completely agree. That Destiny gets attacked for having arguments that appeal to both sides genuinely terrifies me. I'm pretty sure Vaush actually vocalised that viewpoint in the debate over Philosophy Tube, suggesting that it's a bad thing to treat Lefties the same way he does with the Right.
Really? That's how degraded society has become?
@@Frosty-oj6hw Destiny's community is still left or far left. Just not as far left as these lunatics.
It annoys me so much how he goes with Destiny and talks about the hypothetical situation where they eliminate womens sports but then suddenly decides its about including trans in womens sports and accuses him of straw-manning.
Did they say Selina Williams 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sorry but “this woman is the best in the world at her sport!” Just has a much different ring to it than “this woman is top 500 in the world in her sport!”
But that's the current reality lol. How many men have ever uttered something to the effect of "(X female player) may be the best in her sport, but in reality she's more like the rank 500 man" or "yeah they're the best... WOMAN (lolololol)"
Like come on. It's disingenuous to think that women in sports don't already face this reality-- they're reminded of it constantly every day.
@@markwaller8072 No, that argument is in response to when women online try to make comparisons of how a respective female athlete in her sport may be better than the best male athlete. Like people comparing Sue Bird to Lebron for example. Sue Bird may be the best female basketball player, that doesn't mean she can be compared to Lebron
There was a question read by the moderator that ended this debate and I'm not sure Destiny caught it. "Why can't tranz women just compete with the men?" The beardless one's answer was basically because they don't identify as male and that should be respected. The funny thing is there's no changes required to fix this problem. Men's sports are already open to women. So a tranz women can compete in men's sports as a "woman" if they want. That's how you know there's an agenda here and not a sincere desire to find a reasonable solution.
trans women still get worse in their performance when they transition. Just not on cis women levels.
Ok, but to be super good faith, you have to admit that even if the men's leagues are open, they are viewed as men's leagues. So a trans woman in a men's league might be pretty demoralizing to that trans woman.
Not that I'm disagreeing with Destiny on the broader point, but I do think it was a fair response from the other guy on that question.
Exactly, except i think theres an EXTREME desire from these progressive lefties to see Trans people do really well in womens sports, no matter the cost. I think THEY WANT to see Trans women dominate at the top, and then they will say "hey its just a coincidence"
@@albertjohnston1026 Is it not empowering to be a woman who can actually compete with men? Isnt that something you can be proud of? Isnt it worse to just stomp in womens leagues?
@@albertjohnston1026 But the kid is entirely convinced that men and women should be competing against each other anyway, and that having a women's league is discriminatory. his objective with Trans Athletes, and his end goal of universal coed sports run counter to each other, until you realize one is just a stepping stone to the other.
Normally I cringe at the whole conservative reeeeing at sjw agendas... except, in this case, he outright said that was the plan the whole time 😓
This guy spends 80% of the debate staring intensely at himself in discord window, making sure his combover isn't ruined. The remaining 20% is fishing for irrellevant gotcha's. It should be illegal to be this obnoxious.
What a brainrotting convo, this will be extremely hurtful to the progress of the trans debate. Literal conspiracy-lunacy level analysis from people who haven't been in real sports or have cis-friends in real sports.
I haven't watched the whole Convo but this sounds like some major cope to suck up to your favorite streamer.
Dude, you're being as unhinged as the guy that said eating pizza is a debate tactic. You're not attacking any of his arguments, you just basically called him a debate bro.
@@Vicente_Moreno he was fishing for gotchas and instead of addressing destiny's points it just seemed like quibbling over semantics.
@@Vicente_Moreno The guy literally tried to argue that cis men and trans women grow up facing different social pressures to play sports DESPITE BOTH GROWING UP AS BOYS.
Get off it, this guy was an embarrassment
@@archimedes5172 oh sweetpotato, as if I'm delusional enough to believe that a streamer gives a motherfucking fuck about any individual viewer. Try watching the whole thing before commenting. Thx bud!
Who the hell is Selena Williams? Lol 🤣😆
Holy shit, this Sinthe person basically runs on motte and bailey.
S: girls are pressured out of sports
D: 44% of girls participate in sports
S: that's mostly cheerleading
D: it's mostly not cheerleading
S: well they're not being encouraged to play football
D: sure
S: see, they're being forced out of sports!
Also, isn't it a problem that cheerleading specifically is not acknowledged as a sport? That's why injuries in cheerleading doesn't offer the same protections in recognised sports?
Also worth noting that track and field (the main one listed) relies heavily on things that are massively different based on sex. The difference between men and women even in distance running is several minutes, and it's way worse in sports that depends on explosiveness and power.
This guy (sorry enby) needs to actually try competing at something so they can develop a modicum of respect and knowledge.
I can tell you in my highschool we had the cheerleading team that was probably ~20 girls and a couple guys that were all in one team and pretty much just cheered at the football games. Then there was the freshman, JV and Varsity teams for soccer, basketball and softball plus many dozens of girls who did various track and field events. I don't think there was a swim team since we had no pool. Idk where this dude gets the idea that most girls are just doing cheerleading. How is that not misogyny?
The majortity of sports woman do where i live is hockey,football,rugby,running,swimming and tennis as far as im aware Sinthe or whatever knows dick about sports
i dont think we even have cheerleading here XD
People that haven't competed in sports really need to stop debating this topic. Listening to this kid is worse than nails on a chalkboard.
why sports? The only ones who should be talking is women who are competing. Men trying to argue over topics they can't even be part of what the problem is also need to shut the fuck up
Yep. You can just tell this person hasnt even played or watched sports in any capacity.
exactly lmao
has destiny played in any sport tho?
@2d idk, but he at least has better understanding of sports and athletes
This person has a very vague position and seemingly hasn’t thought very hard about anything they tried to argue. That kid is mind numbing.
@@hunsinger how does that make sense?
@@takeshii It makes a lot of sense if you just close your eyes and don't think about it.
@@takeshii It doesn't and he doesn't live in the real world.
@@hunsinger Women’s sports as an institution hold women back? How
@@BornInsane0
He believes women can complete with men in sports. Something that is blatantly false.
I honestly have no idea what the guy on the right is even arguing for or against.
If the argument is to ultimately dissolve gendered categories in sports, why would we not just include trans women in the open category? Why force them into a protected category? As athletes, would trans women really feel that much better if cis women were forced to participate in the open category too?
The open category would essentially be a men's category. Any ciswomen, transwomen and transmen in the Top 100 in most sports would be massive outliers.
Because its not about equal treatment, its about breaking down things he sees as offensive.
In his weird world view, he seems to think that the fact that women and men are treated differently based on biological indicators is bigotry.
He is like a extremely twisted meninist with purely ideological standpoints and no interest in practical applications/pragmatism.
@@uUuWolf16uUu
This feels like actual misogyny, where a lot of "patriarchal" misogyny feminist whine about is usually an over protective nature towards women. (Literally the thing like credit card women couldn't get it but her debt would be forced on the men in her life.)
@@majdjinn5042 Yes. It's a weird ouroboros of self-devouring ideology that will always come around. It seems to be morally neutral and purely based on ideology instead of on actual realities that come with these decisions.
It's friggin weird, like a logic robot who can never break out of his linear thinking.
@@uUuWolf16uUu
Yeah I'm just convinced it's naked societal deconstruction.
Damn, so this guy is basically a misogynist. I feel like Destiny didn’t come as prepared for this debate as he should have but it’s understandable that he didn’t think someone would argue so aggressively against something most people find obvious: the physical dominance of biological men.
He didn't argue against the physical domination of men, he simply doesn't care about cis women as much as he cares about trans women.
@@Horny_Fruit_Flies I guess you’re right. He said as much. I was baffled by that.
Despite the experience of the other debates, I think Destiny was honestly surprised at how deranged this dude was. It's like arguing with someone who says the sky is black. I suppose there are things you cannot prepare for.
It's hard to prepare for a debate with someone who is full of lies, "facts" he brings up but can't even follow up on and keeps dodging going into any topic, just beating around the bush.
Steven's arguments were on point, the other guy just ignored them.
@@sargeteg5927 That's exactly it. I mean think about it, what WOULD you say if someone tried to argue that the sky was black? You'd have to delve into the phenomenological weeds for sure, but whos ready for that? And then the kid started throwing in black people?
I think, the good thing to come from this is everyone here has been inoculated for this bonkers line of reasoning now.
Lia Thomas went from being like what? Consistently ranked mid 500 as a man, to instantly breaking records ad a woman.
😢 this is painful to watch. Dude makes absolutely no sense. I have never heard anyone speak so much without actually saying anything
I've been doing contact sports for most of my life and to think that females could compete with males is just completely absurd, we will harm them and they will suffer. It's not fair in any way.
A little disingenuous since he said that not every sport should be integrated like this. I don't think he's pushing for men and women to compete in boxing, and even then, boxing is one of the most heavily partitioned sports, all these different weight classes and conditions. Wouldn't be hard to keep that rigid structure with men and women separate too, even as much of society integrates.
@@markwaller8072 But there is a big difference in ability that you are either ignoring purposefully or just glossing over. There is no outright difference stopping women from playing baseball (Eri Yoshida played baseball professionally in Japan as a pitcher), but it's just that men have a distinct advantage over women. For example, in baseball, taller pitchers are generally favored as your pitch windup requires you to take a massive stride forward at release to generate power as you throw. Taller people = larger stride. Women are generally smaller and so they naturally throw slower pitches. Eri Yoshida was trained by Tim Wakefield, a famous baseball pitcher, and he focused on her finesse and control while making her have a different pitch windup to compensate for her lack of size (side arm throw like an 80s pitcher).
@@merlotpapi4930 none of these arguments about the extremes matter because most people playing sports aren't in it to be the best. The vast majority of women and men that will ever play sports knows they will never be competitive for the best. They still do it anyway. So dislodging the extremely small minority of people who actually care from their top spots through being more inclusive I don't think is that controversial. Destiny keeps conjuring up hypothetical legions of women who would be disenfranchised by this, but the fact is that most women's rankings would remain basically the same as before lol.
@@markwaller8072 "because most people playing sports aren't in it to be the best" absolute brain dead take and it screams that you've never played a sport ever in your life. This entire debate is just suburban nerdy white dudes pontificating about sports like they are professional athletes or are about that life. Every athlete wants to be the best. That's why they compete for championships. That's why they give out individual awards. That's why we have Hall of Fames.
You going "but the fact is that most women's rankings would remain basically the same as before lol" is also quite literally not an argument and just you conjuring up a lie as a gotcha. It's not hard to see why a biological male who transitioned into a woman would have an advantage playing a sport with biological women. It takes almost 3 brain cells to see that. If Serena Williams can see that, someone who is the very best in the sport she does, then surely you should too. But this isn't about what's real or logical, this is just purely reflexive ideological posturing for you it seems.
@@markwaller8072 The rankings won't stay the same, especially if you're letting men who think they're women compete with actual biological women. Even in amateuar sports the differences are very noticeable. So you're argument falls flat, any sensible athlete can tell you this, professional or not.
Just to point how blatantly wrong this guy is, the only person on my HS cross country team was a girl a year ahead of me. I’d regularly beat her times, if only by a thin margin, and struggle to place in the top 100. Meanwhile, she got a full scholarship and was named all American her sophomore year in college. The advantage in lung capacity and cardiac output the average male athlete has is massive and to my knowledge neither is effected by HRT.
Yeah, he clearly has never competed in or watched any endurance sports. Just because the percentage of performance difference isn’t as large as short and middle distance, doesn’t mean it isn’t still pronounced amongst elite competitors, even in ultramarathons. Fastest 100 mile time for men is just under 11 hours - for women, it’s just under 13 hours…
man, when people were talking in 2016 about 3rd wave feminism eating itself i did _not_ expect it to be laden with this much irony. eliminating women's spaces so men in dresses could feel valid. the schadenfreude is unreal
men in dresses that consist of less than 1% of the entire population, somehow their struggle is soooooooo important, more than everyone elses
@@lowserver2than any woman’s place too. But trans men have a disadvantage and they don’t care. They really hate biological women😂
Did you just assume my gender?
They: so would you exclude Croatians?
Destiny: no we don’t divide by nationality
They: yes we do there are national teams
-__- Why bother with this person if they’re not going to be honest
It's interesting just how extremely uneducated you can be about something and still try to argue it for so long without doing a single bit of research. Trying to exclude a country based on like 2cm of extra height that some countries is unfathomably different to the physical difference between men and women.
Actually destiny made a ton of naturalistic fallacies here. He argued about half a dozen time that because we don't currently divide based on X, we shouldn't divide based on X or that because we divide based on gender that can support the division based on gender. Was wondering if Cinth would call him on it.
@@markwaller8072 If this dude has no problem with genderless sports he should have no problem with transwomen competing against men he should just openly say he cares more about transwomen than women.
Even if we did divide by x it would still be divided by sex regardless and thus it would just become women with no advantages over eachother competing against eachother thus never knowing who the best woman overall is in any given league be it international or national it makes no sense. We accept advantages within same sex categories because its still fair on average and sports are about being exceptional specimens being the best in the world even. Combat sports have weight classes because we recognize how much of an unfair advantage weight brings but i guess this dude would have no problem eliminating those either the lighter dudes wouldnt mind right
This dude is truly one of a kind when it comes to having a braindead debate
Holy god. I consider myself a progressive and watching this person really clarified for me why so many people hate us.
As a side note, I’ve heard so much sh*t talked about Destiny, but he comes over as very measured and compassionate to both sides of the argument.
It doesn't matter what political position you take, there's always gonna be a loud group of people who hate you for it so who cares - its the MO of an enemy to push back on anything their adversary says or believes.
@@rjjacob101I'm super super far right and I love listening to destiny debate. I don't agree with everything he says but he's a great conversationalist.
Facts
@@Bixnoodle Are you like.. a nazi?
Not trying to insult you or anything but you said 'super super far right', so I'm just kinda curious.
Because that's 4 degrees to the right from the center lol.
@@dandromeda1 As in a neo-nazi? No, you'd probably call me one but that's not how I'd identify myself.
Who is the guy on the right because he is extremely ignorant and pretentious. And for the future comparing chess to a physical sport is absolutely asinine as a concept. They aren't comparable at all. Also you should probably have played organized sports to properly speak upon this.
This guy who is clearly not an athlete, and who clearly does not even understand what competitive integrity is, sure has a lot of strong opinions about women's sports and what the future of sports should look like. It's very convenient for men to be able identify as non-binary or trans so they can have the green light to decide what is best for all women.
I like how the other guy expresses so solidly that best woman in sport is actually a failure because there are better men at that same sport. Fits his values properly.