Press L to turn your lights on. 🙂 I'm enjoying this series immensely, following your builds on my own game (but not the environmental achievement - I need the space!) The blueprints are so handy, saves a lot of time which I don't have. Thanks mate.
fun fact, you can spray your ("best stuff") blue spray with blue spray and it lasts more sprays in the Spray Coater. It's a simple step to have the blue spray line spray itself and you don't use it up as fast. Probably not as critical when you're building on the scale Nilaus does, but if it's still a precious product you can extend it in that way.
I love the reduction of fractionators. You’re right about having to fill up entire planets with them. Blueprints or not, it was daunting. This is a great build to reduce space and time.
Thanks for using the stackers in a build. Seeing how you used the lower tier belts to make them work helped me understand how to use them better. Keep on with the great series!
Was re-watching this, you don't need the mk 1 belt for the fractionator at 28:00, the second stacker has input of full mk 2 belt at 2 stacks, so the output can even be mk 3 belt again. the belt will have gaps, but the stacks are going to be 4 high anyway. that way it can supplement the loop faster when it's waiting for priority of splitter and it's a bit backed up. Even if it's not backed up, stacks will be 4 high.
The Pilers? They're super useful for extending production lines. The fastest belt can only move 30 items per second, a good piler setup can expand that to 120, meaning you don't have to run multiple lines, although your output lines have to be stacked at a certain point too.
Just used your Fractionator build for the first time.....WOW!!!! I have had so many problems with deuterium - and this build has solved them all thank you very much :) !!!
The duration to burn the proliferated fuels should be the same. The extended circle means that the energy of the fuel has increased, not that it lasts longer as the power plant is running at a faster speed to match the extra energy.
Using the different belt speeds to force stacking is a cool trick. My fractionator build ended up using 6 stackers and merging to get 4 stacked hydrogen onto loop belt. On the plus side it can stack to 4 at the full 1800/min belt rate; on the down side it's a much larger and less crisp build. However I'm not sure the local loops around each fractionator are doing much. Sure, the first fractionator is dumping it's 3-stacked hydrogens out and getting fresh 4-stacked ones in. But the 2nd and later fractionators are still pulling those 3-stacks into their loops -- same as if they had a direct feed; and if they fractionate off of one of those then they eject a 2-stack which a later fractionator can pull into its local loop.
I think it's the same as it always has been, to get the best possible workload you basically must build a dedicated loop for each and every fractionator (now with its own stacker) or put in extra inputs after each machine (and stackers) the question is do you want to sacrifice so much space if other solutions work at the very least at ~80% capacity, likely even more? we already have 4 stacked belts we couldn't build before, make a few stackers in your layout every now and you're still way better off than before so being lazy is not that punishing here on the other hand if you do optimized loops be it singular fractionators or very complex, larger loops and get them to run full capacity, maybe even proliferate them, you save so much space it's going to be worth it, just the initial design is going to be annoying and I personally wouldn't bother before the ILS put out stacked belts from the get go
@@brohvakiindova4452 could you just throw a stacker on each of the smaller loops to restack the 3-stacks? Set the small loops up so they only take new hydrogen in, but then have a stacker to restack the used hydrogen.
@@TianarTruegard yes exactly what I meant, you can do this but those damn stackers are kind of bulky and I'm not sure if it's then working flawlessly... Back to back I don't know if it's worth it to not just build a little bit more instead I don't mind the stackers drawing power, that's probably negligible but the space probably means you can fit noticeably less fractionators in I personally was very lazy with it, I just took my old design and squeezed a few stackers into a big loop and called it a day because I've already had it set up to satisfy everything I had, didn't want to tear it down
Thx for all the effort you put into you content nilaus. I adapted your frac design with the new pile sorters on each loop. Constant max stacks and no need to loop and restack that way. Thx for the basic idea, looks great!
You are about to unlock the warp drive ("Drive engine lvl4). Don't forget to timelapse the "Before our time" achievement with you flying to new system and back.
I did find one issue...if you present the fractionator with a solid wall of continuous 4-stacks it will pile up a supply of 20 hydrogen, seize up and stop. There almost has to be an occasional gap, seemingly. Since the hydrogen is looping around and replenishing itself, it can reach a state where hydrogen cannot enter or leave the machine and it just ceases to function. The 98% or 99% of the time Deuterium is not produced, the Hydrogen has to have someplace to go.
I did a similar build for my deuterium. With the exception of, when I make a pile build, I want a 30ps belt of 4 stacks :D which requires so much room :( but it pays off with throughput. I also have something like 400 fractionators. I was playing with another design that also includes a piler per fractionator to help keep the stacks at 4. But if I am being honest, a stack of 60 fractionators with single stack and no proliferation does just fine. Gas giants generate so much hydrogen and oil makes so much that you kind of just want to burn it off as fast as possible. So this design condenses 4 setups into one if you keep the belts as full as possible.
Caught myself asking if an extra 5% proliferation from Space Goo 3 is really worth it. And then had the "I mean, do you want 1 extra every 4 rather than 1 extra every 5? Ooooooh." moment.
@@fibonaccino69 it's not *way* more. Pro2 is good for 24 sprays. Pro3 is good for 60 sprays, but it takes two units of Pro2 AND a carbon nanotube to create.
@@maximvoronin1569 That's still a pretty solid improvement. You're spending an extra carbon nanotube for that 20%->25% jump and an extra 12 sprays of it. That seems like it might just be strictly better TBH.
Just finished my own Deuterium Fuel Rod production line (somewhat rough), and placed down a patch of Mini Fusion Energy plants, which means power is sorted for the foreseeable future. Which means I finally have the power for three things, transitioning my starter planet to rely entirely on PLS and IPS, making the oceanless planet in my starting system into my primary hub, and starting the energy intensive production of weird matter for my green cubes (when for a slow and steady automated research setup, so I am ahead in research compared to my logistics, and industry).
Why don't you triple proliferate the deuteron fuel if it makes so much difference? If there is no place in the actual build, you can place a proliferator at the power station.
@@robberpatino7823 The additional cost of the proliferator is trivial with an Ice giant *literally right next door*. He can mine over 100 fire ice per second, more than enough to feed the proliferator mk3. I do predict however, that in the coming few episodes, he's going to start running out of proliferator, because he still only has those two small proliferator mk 2 builds on his home planet. Sooner or later, those stockpiles are going to run out. The titanium costs, but there's so much in the system already, and we scarcely are using it without a dyson sphere to build.
@@kavitiko335 that's why I said "at the moment" I think we will see more proliferation in the next episode. Also I think he might have build more proliferators anywhere between sessions like others things he do
@@kavitiko335 the coal there is running out, and he needs energized carbon for other lines too. He needs to tap more coal in another system, wouldn't be good to go all out on mk3 at this stage of the game in his situation.
He can run into a deuterium dead lock scenario. Which will basically need a planet designed to burn the excess deuterium to charge batteries for example. Thermal generators are still useful in the late game to deal with excess hydrogen and deuterium in its raw form.
With the stackers/pilers, why not use just 1 on the incoming belt? It means that 98% of the first round around the circle, there will be two stacks instead of four, but it will self-correct in a minute with the second stacker on the circle, so the third round will be four stacks already and there is no need for slow belts since 8 fractionators don't consume nearly as much hydrogen. Sometimes, you don't need to overthink these things :) Speaking of which, why two loops around each fractionator? Only one of them goes into the fractionator and the other is just a fun ride for hydrogen? Splitter priority does nothing as the speed of the belt is the same for al four input/outputs so the only thing you are preventing is having empty spots from fully processed stack (i.e. 4/4 procs deuterium). That does not sound like a necessity and uses too much stuff for too little gain.
Easy to test the stackers yourself. I don't know what the magic is but the speed of deuterium production goes up significantly with stacked cargo on the belt. The conversion rate of H2 > D2 is still 1% (or 2% with blue proliferation), and the recipe is unchanged: one h2 for each d2. It just happens a lot faster. Maybe 4 hydrogen per cargo on a 30/s belt look like a 120/s belt to the fractionator logic? For your second question, without restacking you see a drop in the speed of deuterium production. Maybe that "looks like 120./s" goes to "looks like 90/s" then "looks like 60/s". Just watch the production graph as you test. As the stacks are depleted production rate drops precipitously. When the stacks are used up and replaced with fresh 4-stacks the production speed goes up again. Like a sine wave.
@@Firebuck Oh, there's no doubt the stacks increase the amount of hydrogen going through the fractionator. However, it is easy to get to 4 stacks with one intro, one line piler/stacker, so a third one is superfluous here. There's no need to play with belt types, either, you just let it fix itself for a minute or two. The secondary belt serves no function since it does not introduce new hydrogen, therefore total number of it going through the fractionator is the same and the amount of deuterium produced is the same.
@@fare-5174So I took my own advice, did some more testing and proved you right in your original comment. Mea culpa! Turns out I agree with your points. 😉 I saw the 98% thing too, which seemed to introduce a performance penalty. For comparison I tested two loops of four frac's, blue prolif and an inline stacker just prior to where the new H2 comes in. The "fractionation rate" was a few percent less than the max on a couple of the fracs, so maybe 4 isn't an ideal loop size. But my deuterium/s out was a very steady 1130/m out with 8 fracs. I'll take higher production over a stat in the machine tooltip any day. Re the hydrogen supply stacking, I prefer using the iLS for that. But when I use stackers -- I'm with you, keep it simple. If I really need a full mk3 belt stacked 4 high I'll start with 4 mk3 supply belts and crunch em down from there.
The trick with the slower belts to maximize stacking before the fractionators could be improved quite a bit. The entire belt backed up whenever there was no room on the loop, making the stackers pause to wait for it. Then when there was room on the loop, it could only move 6 stacks per second onto it because of the mk1 belt. If you had one mk1 belt right after the second stacker and mk3 the rest of the way to the splitter, that would let it dump quite a few stacks into the loop when there's space and then keep the stackers working at full capacity to fill that belt back up.
Damn, hadn’t got this far into watching your videos before I put down a fractionator build. Didn’t even think to stack the hydrogen up. Great idea and like the compact build, definitely going to have to utilize this for my deuterium work.
There is a jamming problem with the fractionators. The fix is easy enough. Just take the splitter that brings in the new hydrogen and the loop together, take another line out and loop it back the output of the new hydrogen. Have it cut across so that it takes priority over new hydrogen, and so you will not get over full on the lines.
The fractionater design is very good. My experiments with fractionators and pilers always resulted in the produckt stacking thereby reducing the output of the fractionator.
To investigate my mistakes I ran a couple of my previous experiments with fractionators and pilers again. Now they work! There must have been a recent bugfix.
I found that the mixed belt types isn't needed for the stackers. Once the fractionators all balance out it creates enough bottleneck to force the stackers up to four coming out of the ILS. It took about a minute to reach equilibrium.
Yeah I've been thinking this game needs lights for a long time too. The light off Icarus just isn't enough at night time. The proliferator update had me start my game over hahaha. I always seem to do that, start the game from scratch so I can increase efficiency.
Love the videos... Makes me laugh with the constantly always requesting the materials at your logistics station before getting the proliferators in and then hoping they get there first. Should just always set those to demand as soon as you plop down the station where you want to keep it so you dont always have to see if it gets there first. Love that fractionator design... Puts my particle collider one to shame and probably way less power usage.
The Fractionator I copied from this vid kept jamming. Turns out the orange belt section at the input was one square short which was enough to jam the flow. I corrected that and now it works magnificently.
Could you let the fractionator hydrogen loop fill completely and back up before putting the belt from the 'restacker' back to the input. I think it might let you start off that much closer to full load.
After the second piler/stacker you actually only need one MK.I bet segment. If you update the remaining sections through the proliferator up until the splitter you are able to fill up the whole belt.
Actually in this case the formula when using Green Proliferation: (Base Power Gen("X") + Proliferation % (20% ("X" x .2))) x (Base Duration ("Y") + Proliferation % (20% ("Y" x .2))) = Total Power. So that means that the base power of 15MW lasted say 10 seconds (normal consumption and not in a demand power state) it would look like this: (15MW + 3MW (15MW x .2)) x (10 Sec + 2Sec (10 x .2) = 18MW x 12 Sec = 216MW (or Mega Joules if you want) of power. The Base power is 150MW. So if you take the Boosted amount and divide it by the base amount you get a boost percentage of 44%. (1+(1 x .2)) x (1+(1 x .2)) = 1.44 or 44%.
In theory couldn’t you just remove the power from the fractionators until the lines backlog, then power them to have it operate at 100%-ish starting off? There will be a little bit of extra space on belts left from the half of the loop that wasn’t filled but it’s better than the loop running through all of the fractionators being empty. Shouldn’t cause any loss, unless I’m completely missing something.
@@Dadof32023 I know, I mentioned that. the entire loop going between all the factionators won't be empty which is the majority of what needs to be backlogged. If you start with the belt full then just the fractionators need to be caught up which should catch up to full capacity faster.
Loving this series a lot, interested to see stackers used as not got into them yet. Just about to hit green science once I get those pesky blue chips built final stage of that today
I would change the mark 1 Belt at the FRACTIONATOR's to mark 2 or 3, because when it outputed to the loop it will have a replacement faster than with mark 1 this gives it a small buffer. Hope you can understand my thoths.
@@Nilaus after it is 4 commpresed you can use mk 3 belts so that the 4 get to the Loop faster and the compressors work more often. When a long empti section comes it can dump everything at once and start compressing at full speed. With that you reduce your startup time. But in the long run it doesn't really matter.
I think Max means to make the compression shorter, just half, because now the stack has a problem with entering the spliter. Like u told us with your red science build for splitting hydrogen.
Could it be that the planet you were on is tidally locked and that's why that side of the planet is always dark? Also is there no setting to make it always day? I love this series keep up the great work!
For the Fractionators the initial Pilers are not needed as the Towers can set 'Output Cargo Stack Count' at any available stack level. Or was that removed in a recent patch?
Isn't there a hotkey to turn on/off a light around the mech, kinda like how Factorio has the flashlight? Alternatively, you could redesign the mech using Science parts to make it glow, though I don't know how strong of a glow those give.
"...rambling on about it in the comment section like you know what you're talking about..." - characterizing the hundreth of the internet making as much noise like the half of it. :D
Something is wrong with your splitters priorities : fractionators keep jaming :( Had to set input AND output priority to the lower rings to unjam the fractionators (19:11 in the video)..
this build gets stuck on a regular basis - the fractionator just quit working even though there is enough storage on the output line and enough material on the input. once i collect the material inside the fractionator, it works again... anyone else with this problem?
I thought the loop or other measure wasn't necessary anymore because the fractionators are selffilling now. The create a stockpile of hydrogen per frac.
Tried the blueprint for the fractionators. They got stuck before they filled up the tanks with deuterium (they made it half way). They had too much hydrogen and they couldn't get rid of it, so I think you're right
@@Calihan I've built step by step following Nilaus and my tanks get filled to the brim. You could check the priority of the splitter bringing hydrogen in. If the priority isn't set for the loop but for the ones incoming from the PLS it stucks.
I used the exact blueprint for the fractionators, I only changed the stacking part to stack four belts into one. I made sure to keep the input priority to continue the main loop, but all fractionators got stuck almost immediately...
Now I even tried with the original blueprint, no changes at all: the fractionators all got stuck after very little time, not sure why. Could issues with power cause this?
@@AronFiechter Hi Aron. Mayne the same problem I had: I didn't use the splitter at the point where the hydrogen enters the loop. And even then u need to set the input from the loop as priority. Otherwise the whole thing gets stuck. Took me half an hour to find out 🙈
@@Goofman79 nope, I had pasted the exact same blueprint, no changes. In my case I think it was a power problem: insufficient power led the small single-fractionator loops to "overload" (because the fractionator couldn't process at full speed, I guess) and get stuck.
You could make 3 to 5 ratio with proliferated ice cubes (3.6 == 4.8). Why? Well, while ice cubes are infinite, you could still benefit from more carbon nanotubes I think.
It looks like this fractionator setup works great but I dont understand why) Shouldnt all mini-loops eventually fill up with evenly distributed stack sizes since they do not allow hydrogen to leave? Even in the first loop, I would imagine, it should become stack height 2.5 on average and end up around 4500 items/minute, but it stays higher than that for some reason. 🤔
Because you're preferring in from feed and preferring out to the loop, it's essentially swapping the two belts. Very clever! I'm still getting my head around the math of the 3 stacks propagating further down the feed belt and what the odds are that the last fractionator will end up with a loop of only 3's (possibly infinitesimal, but not 0, I suspect).
@@orion7311 ...how? You have two belts in, and two belts out. Unless you're using a slower belt on the outbound for some reason, or the main feeder belt is backing up all the way, how could it possibly jam? It's not like the fractionators are adding any more resource.
@@matthiasoc7141 I am also confused, I don't know whether it's an issue with my ILS feed but it is same as the video. I will cross check my belt to check whether I have some green ones, I chain upgraded them after i initially built them with mk2.
@@Nilaus also putting drones only into requesting towers it significantly slowes transportation rate. If you can't afford 50 drones into a tower then split them half.
@@Nilaus there is no confirmation that it gives more charges, if it only comes into poliferator the info about 75 chargers disappearing and regular 60 charges apears. No reason to proliferate proliferators.
This doesn't work anymore as expected. Using stackers will make the Proliferator less effective. Way less the more it is stacked. Using the blue stuff on a not stacked item will make it get 3 yellow triangles, using it on a stacked item will result in only one item in the stack being count as proliferated. It is very important to know that as a full production will only scale up to the point of the least proliferated item.
An actual criticism of the fractionators. because you used slower belts, you are not filling the inner loop. i'd argue to use max belts always. but your tiny inner loops are always full so meh
Most of the complexity and footprint of this design is not doing anything at all. Each single fractionator loop that outputs 3 stacks to the outside raised belt is just feeding that 3 stack to the next splitter and the next frac. That 3 stack might be used (becoming 2) or not. Either way it is still going through all 8 fracs a single time. Same as if all the fracs were inline, in a single loop of 8. IE you've changed a straight telephone cord into a spiral telephone cord. What the splitters are doing is adding a 1, 2, 3 or 4 stack to an empty 0 spot. Same as if it was a T-junction back into a single loop of 8 fractionators. Except it is taking up double the space it needs to with all the individual frac loops.
This is not an efficient build. You need to put Piler after Fractionators. In your way you will end up with several belts carrying 1-4 stacks of Hydrogen. Also with your build you have to leave more space between Fractionators. Why do you need Proliferator there? It will only reduce the required number of Fractionators by 2, but it will eat a lot of Proliferators. So your actual build will be bigger and require more energy and resources. All you actually need is a single round belt with Hydrogen and one Piler at the end.
@@Nilaus It is not efficient to create Proliferators build to support Fractionators build. Also you ignored the first argument with Piler at the end of Fractionators circle. You lose efficiency there. One standard section near equator gives me 70.67 Deuterium / sec. I also get stacks of 4 from Interstellar Logistics station (requires research).
You've both got a point. Having the shortest amount of belt with a stacker restacking would be better. Eight fractionators with rings has more belts involved than if the rings weren't there and with only one stacker restacking, that's not as efficient as w/o individual fractionator rings. The profilerators are useful if you want 2x the dueterium in the same amount of time (2x the power). An improvement would be to have stackers on each of the fractionator rings, immediately after the fractionator and before the splitter. For the main input ring, rather change it to not be a ring, and ensure that the input is 4x stacked. In this model, the fractionator rings are always as short as possible, and as stacked as possible, then any holes are fed with full stacks as needed. All fractionators in this design run at 7200/min. Enjoy the content Nilaus, super crisp looking, hope the above helps. (Maybe you already figured this, I'm late to this series!)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Press L to turn your lights on. 🙂 I'm enjoying this series immensely, following your builds on my own game (but not the environmental achievement - I need the space!) The blueprints are so handy, saves a lot of time which I don't have. Thanks mate.
fun fact, you can spray your ("best stuff") blue spray with blue spray and it lasts more sprays in the Spray Coater. It's a simple step to have the blue spray line spray itself and you don't use it up as fast. Probably not as critical when you're building on the scale Nilaus does, but if it's still a precious product you can extend it in that way.
I love the reduction of fractionators. You’re right about having to fill up entire planets with them. Blueprints or not, it was daunting. This is a great build to reduce space and time.
Thanks for using the stackers in a build. Seeing how you used the lower tier belts to make them work helped me understand how to use them better. Keep on with the great series!
Was re-watching this, you don't need the mk 1 belt for the fractionator at 28:00, the second stacker has input of full mk 2 belt at 2 stacks, so the output can even be mk 3 belt again. the belt will have gaps, but the stacks are going to be 4 high anyway. that way it can supplement the loop faster when it's waiting for priority of splitter and it's a bit backed up. Even if it's not backed up, stacks will be 4 high.
I was just about to work pil- stackers into my fractionater build this afternoon. Perfect timing.
you're right. They are pil- stackers.
When the stackers first came out I wondered whet the heck those would be useful for. Never imagined to see them in so elegant a build.
The Pilers? They're super useful for extending production lines. The fastest belt can only move 30 items per second, a good piler setup can expand that to 120, meaning you don't have to run multiple lines, although your output lines have to be stacked at a certain point too.
Just used your Fractionator build for the first time.....WOW!!!! I have had so many problems with deuterium - and this build has solved them all thank you very much :) !!!
The duration to burn the proliferated fuels should be the same. The extended circle means that the energy of the fuel has increased, not that it lasts longer as the power plant is running at a faster speed to match the extra energy.
...as outputting extra energy equals a longer burning duration at the same power output, it can still count as an extended burn time.
Best DSP channel. Keep on going!
Using the different belt speeds to force stacking is a cool trick. My fractionator build ended up using 6 stackers and merging to get 4 stacked hydrogen onto loop belt. On the plus side it can stack to 4 at the full 1800/min belt rate; on the down side it's a much larger and less crisp build.
However I'm not sure the local loops around each fractionator are doing much. Sure, the first fractionator is dumping it's 3-stacked hydrogens out and getting fresh 4-stacked ones in. But the 2nd and later fractionators are still pulling those 3-stacks into their loops -- same as if they had a direct feed; and if they fractionate off of one of those then they eject a 2-stack which a later fractionator can pull into its local loop.
I think it's the same as it always has been, to get the best possible workload you basically must build a dedicated loop for each and every fractionator (now with its own stacker) or put in extra inputs after each machine (and stackers)
the question is do you want to sacrifice so much space if other solutions work at the very least at ~80% capacity, likely even more? we already have 4 stacked belts we couldn't build before, make a few stackers in your layout every now and you're still way better off than before so being lazy is not that punishing here
on the other hand if you do optimized loops be it singular fractionators or very complex, larger loops and get them to run full capacity, maybe even proliferate them, you save so much space it's going to be worth it, just the initial design is going to be annoying and I personally wouldn't bother before the ILS put out stacked belts from the get go
@@brohvakiindova4452 could you just throw a stacker on each of the smaller loops to restack the 3-stacks? Set the small loops up so they only take new hydrogen in, but then have a stacker to restack the used hydrogen.
@@TianarTruegard yes exactly what I meant, you can do this but those damn stackers are kind of bulky and I'm not sure if it's then working flawlessly...
Back to back I don't know if it's worth it to not just build a little bit more instead
I don't mind the stackers drawing power, that's probably negligible but the space probably means you can fit noticeably less fractionators in
I personally was very lazy with it, I just took my old design and squeezed a few stackers into a big loop and called it a day because I've already had it set up to satisfy everything I had, didn't want to tear it down
Thx for all the effort you put into you content nilaus.
I adapted your frac design with the new pile sorters on each loop. Constant max stacks and no need to loop and restack that way.
Thx for the basic idea, looks great!
A video on how Pilers/Stackers, different speed belts, Splitters work in combination would be great.
You are about to unlock the warp drive ("Drive engine lvl4). Don't forget to timelapse the "Before our time" achievement with you flying to new system and back.
I did find one issue...if you present the fractionator with a solid wall of continuous 4-stacks it will pile up a supply of 20 hydrogen, seize up and stop. There almost has to be an occasional gap, seemingly. Since the hydrogen is looping around and replenishing itself, it can reach a state where hydrogen cannot enter or leave the machine and it just ceases to function. The 98% or 99% of the time Deuterium is not produced, the Hydrogen has to have someplace to go.
I did a similar build for my deuterium. With the exception of, when I make a pile build, I want a 30ps belt of 4 stacks :D which requires so much room :( but it pays off with throughput. I also have something like 400 fractionators. I was playing with another design that also includes a piler per fractionator to help keep the stacks at 4.
But if I am being honest, a stack of 60 fractionators with single stack and no proliferation does just fine. Gas giants generate so much hydrogen and oil makes so much that you kind of just want to burn it off as fast as possible. So this design condenses 4 setups into one if you keep the belts as full as possible.
fractionators input of the stacked hydrogen can be doubled I think, so less gap will be there for T3 loop belts
this is an engaging comment, and i'm not a lurker awkwardly making a comment to feed the algorithm
Wow, This comment is engaging. I also lurk but share your wish to feed the algorithm with a simple comment and I hear replies taste extra nice.
That's a really nice fractionator design. I always tend to take up so much space with my production layouts.
Love the belt hackery to maximize the stackers. True voodoo!
Caught myself asking if an extra 5% proliferation from Space Goo 3 is really worth it. And then had the "I mean, do you want 1 extra every 4 rather than 1 extra every 5? Ooooooh." moment.
Plus proliferater 3 gives way more sprays than proliferator 2 so it lasts longer.
@@fibonaccino69 it's not *way* more. Pro2 is good for 24 sprays. Pro3 is good for 60 sprays, but it takes two units of Pro2 AND a carbon nanotube to create.
@@maximvoronin1569 That's still a pretty solid improvement. You're spending an extra carbon nanotube for that 20%->25% jump and an extra 12 sprays of it. That seems like it might just be strictly better TBH.
Just finished my own Deuterium Fuel Rod production line (somewhat rough), and placed down a patch of Mini Fusion Energy plants, which means power is sorted for the foreseeable future. Which means I finally have the power for three things, transitioning my starter planet to rely entirely on PLS and IPS, making the oceanless planet in my starting system into my primary hub, and starting the energy intensive production of weird matter for my green cubes (when for a slow and steady automated research setup, so I am ahead in research compared to my logistics, and industry).
Why don't you triple proliferate the deuteron fuel if it makes so much difference? If there is no place in the actual build, you can place a proliferator at the power station.
I guess they are just expensive atm
@@robberpatino7823 The additional cost of the proliferator is trivial with an Ice giant *literally right next door*. He can mine over 100 fire ice per second, more than enough to feed the proliferator mk3.
I do predict however, that in the coming few episodes, he's going to start running out of proliferator, because he still only has those two small proliferator mk 2 builds on his home planet. Sooner or later, those stockpiles are going to run out. The titanium costs, but there's so much in the system already, and we scarcely are using it without a dyson sphere to build.
@@kavitiko335 that's why I said "at the moment" I think we will see more proliferation in the next episode. Also I think he might have build more proliferators anywhere between sessions like others things he do
@@kavitiko335 the coal there is running out, and he needs energized carbon for other lines too. He needs to tap more coal in another system, wouldn't be good to go all out on mk3 at this stage of the game in his situation.
He can run into a deuterium dead lock scenario. Which will basically need a planet designed to burn the excess deuterium to charge batteries for example. Thermal generators are still useful in the late game to deal with excess hydrogen and deuterium in its raw form.
With the stackers/pilers, why not use just 1 on the incoming belt? It means that 98% of the first round around the circle, there will be two stacks instead of four, but it will self-correct in a minute with the second stacker on the circle, so the third round will be four stacks already and there is no need for slow belts since 8 fractionators don't consume nearly as much hydrogen. Sometimes, you don't need to overthink these things :)
Speaking of which, why two loops around each fractionator? Only one of them goes into the fractionator and the other is just a fun ride for hydrogen? Splitter priority does nothing as the speed of the belt is the same for al four input/outputs so the only thing you are preventing is having empty spots from fully processed stack (i.e. 4/4 procs deuterium). That does not sound like a necessity and uses too much stuff for too little gain.
Easy to test the stackers yourself. I don't know what the magic is but the speed of deuterium production goes up significantly with stacked cargo on the belt. The conversion rate of H2 > D2 is still 1% (or 2% with blue proliferation), and the recipe is unchanged: one h2 for each d2. It just happens a lot faster. Maybe 4 hydrogen per cargo on a 30/s belt look like a 120/s belt to the fractionator logic?
For your second question, without restacking you see a drop in the speed of deuterium production. Maybe that "looks like 120./s" goes to "looks like 90/s" then "looks like 60/s". Just watch the production graph as you test. As the stacks are depleted production rate drops precipitously. When the stacks are used up and replaced with fresh 4-stacks the production speed goes up again. Like a sine wave.
@@Firebuck Oh, there's no doubt the stacks increase the amount of hydrogen going through the fractionator. However, it is easy to get to 4 stacks with one intro, one line piler/stacker, so a third one is superfluous here. There's no need to play with belt types, either, you just let it fix itself for a minute or two.
The secondary belt serves no function since it does not introduce new hydrogen, therefore total number of it going through the fractionator is the same and the amount of deuterium produced is the same.
@@fare-5174So I took my own advice, did some more testing and proved you right in your original comment. Mea culpa! Turns out I agree with your points. 😉
I saw the 98% thing too, which seemed to introduce a performance penalty. For comparison I tested two loops of four frac's, blue prolif and an inline stacker just prior to where the new H2 comes in. The "fractionation rate" was a few percent less than the max on a couple of the fracs, so maybe 4 isn't an ideal loop size. But my deuterium/s out was a very steady 1130/m out with 8 fracs. I'll take higher production over a stat in the machine tooltip any day.
Re the hydrogen supply stacking, I prefer using the iLS for that. But when I use stackers -- I'm with you, keep it simple. If I really need a full mk3 belt stacked 4 high I'll start with 4 mk3 supply belts and crunch em down from there.
Brilliant design on that fractionator 👌
The trick with the slower belts to maximize stacking before the fractionators could be improved quite a bit. The entire belt backed up whenever there was no room on the loop, making the stackers pause to wait for it. Then when there was room on the loop, it could only move 6 stacks per second onto it because of the mk1 belt. If you had one mk1 belt right after the second stacker and mk3 the rest of the way to the splitter, that would let it dump quite a few stacks into the loop when there's space and then keep the stackers working at full capacity to fill that belt back up.
to guarantee a 4 stack on the return line, i use a green belt on the output side of the stacker so that the input jams a little and stacks
That decreases the flow rate to match the green belt I.e. you reduce the flow to 12 / sec
Thanks for the setup Nilaus!
Damn, hadn’t got this far into watching your videos before I put down a fractionator build. Didn’t even think to stack the hydrogen up. Great idea and like the compact build, definitely going to have to utilize this for my deuterium work.
There is a jamming problem with the fractionators. The fix is easy enough. Just take the splitter that brings in the new hydrogen and the loop together, take another line out and loop it back the output of the new hydrogen. Have it cut across so that it takes priority over new hydrogen, and so you will not get over full on the lines.
Great series! Really enjoying it
The fractionater design is very good. My experiments with fractionators and pilers always resulted in the produckt stacking thereby reducing the output of the fractionator.
To investigate my mistakes I ran a couple of my previous experiments with fractionators and pilers again. Now they work! There must have been a recent bugfix.
As always thanks for the content!
amazing design; Now I can reduce my planet gobbling fract designs...!!!1
I found that the mixed belt types isn't needed for the stackers. Once the fractionators all balance out it creates enough bottleneck to force the stackers up to four coming out of the ILS. It took about a minute to reach equilibrium.
Very cool build! It inspired me to think about fractionators hard :)
Yeah I've been thinking this game needs lights for a long time too. The light off Icarus just isn't enough at night time. The proliferator update had me start my game over hahaha. I always seem to do that, start the game from scratch so I can increase efficiency.
i am really enjoy it man! keep up!!!
Love the videos... Makes me laugh with the constantly always requesting the materials at your logistics station before getting the proliferators in and then hoping they get there first. Should just always set those to demand as soon as you plop down the station where you want to keep it so you dont always have to see if it gets there first. Love that fractionator design... Puts my particle collider one to shame and probably way less power usage.
Why the mini loops on each fractionator instead of one big loop? Does it keep them maxed out more consistently?
When you step back and look at it, DSP should be studied for probably the best and most intuitive interface and control scheme in probably any game.
When started playing DSP, i realized how many things in factorio I took for grannet
The Fractionator I copied from this vid kept jamming. Turns out the orange belt section at the input was one square short which was enough to jam the flow. I corrected that and now it works magnificently.
Amazing I learned alot. Where can I find the gas giant blue print that would save do much time
Could you let the fractionator hydrogen loop fill completely and back up before putting the belt from the 'restacker' back to the input. I think it might let you start off that much closer to full load.
Nilaus: And so with 8 fractionators you can pretty much call it a day.
Me, with 100 fractionators in my inventory:
After the second piler/stacker you actually only need one MK.I bet segment. If you update the remaining sections through the proliferator up until the splitter you are able to fill up the whole belt.
Woooo Dyson Sphere Program!!!
Actually in this case the formula when using Green Proliferation: (Base Power Gen("X") + Proliferation % (20% ("X" x .2))) x (Base Duration ("Y") + Proliferation % (20% ("Y" x .2))) = Total Power. So that means that the base power of 15MW lasted say 10 seconds (normal consumption and not in a demand power state) it would look like this: (15MW + 3MW (15MW x .2)) x (10 Sec + 2Sec (10 x .2) = 18MW x 12 Sec = 216MW (or Mega Joules if you want) of power. The Base power is 150MW. So if you take the Boosted amount and divide it by the base amount you get a boost percentage of 44%. (1+(1 x .2)) x (1+(1 x .2)) = 1.44 or 44%.
the frac chain is clever
How are you doing that quick copy/paste of the building and all connections without going into blueprint mode at 8:05?
Where are you building Piler's and Coaters as looking at the Mid Mall and build Every thing mall they don't seem to be there.
In theory couldn’t you just remove the power from the fractionators until the lines backlog, then power them to have it operate at 100%-ish starting off? There will be a little bit of extra space on belts left from the half of the loop that wasn’t filled but it’s better than the loop running through all of the fractionators being empty. Shouldn’t cause any loss, unless I’m completely missing something.
The hydrogen won't move through the fractionator if u powered so the belt after would still be empty
@@Dadof32023 I know, I mentioned that. the entire loop going between all the factionators won't be empty which is the majority of what needs to be backlogged. If you start with the belt full then just the fractionators need to be caught up which should catch up to full capacity faster.
Behold, the power of vertical splitters.
Loving this series a lot, interested to see stackers used as not got into them yet. Just about to hit green science once I get those pesky blue chips built final stage of that today
Thank you for these really good videos!
I suspect its a bug, but you can run fuel rods through mk3 proliferation twice to get level 4 and even more power output.
Stacker makes more sense but Piler does mean to stack or heap so it works
I would change the mark 1 Belt at the FRACTIONATOR's to mark 2 or 3, because when it outputed to the loop it will have a replacement faster than with mark 1 this gives it a small buffer. Hope you can understand my thoths.
I use mk3 at the fractionators.
The only mk1 I use is essential to ensure compression.
@@Nilaus after it is 4 commpresed you can use mk 3 belts so that the 4 get to the Loop faster and the compressors work more often.
When a long empti section comes it can dump everything at once and start compressing at full speed.
With that you reduce your startup time. But in the long run it doesn't really matter.
I think Max means to make the compression shorter, just half, because now the stack has a problem with entering the spliter. Like u told us with your red science build for splitting hydrogen.
Such brilliant designs :o
I enjoy your fractionator.
It appears you have the icarus spot light turned off. Might be why it is so dark?
Yay more dsp!
turn on the mech's local light for these night time builds when trying to show something up close
I somehow forget to turn it on... and accidentally turn it off
Any idea why my bottom circles might be stopping? The only difference is i made more "nodes" because im not using painters just yet
Could it be that the planet you were on is tidally locked and that's why that side of the planet is always dark? Also is there no setting to make it always day? I love this series keep up the great work!
It's not. It would be written, also it would mean that orbital and rotational periods are same, and they are not. Nilaus is just unlucky.
It has 900 rotational period and I am just unlucky
Why loop and re-stack the hydrogen? Just drop the remainder back into the intraplanetary logistics hub...
Wonder if you can proliferate the drones and vessel so they carry more/faster
For the Fractionators the initial Pilers are not needed as the Towers can set 'Output Cargo Stack Count' at any available stack level. Or was that removed in a recent patch?
That is a white science research upgrade.
I wish this design came out when I spent 6 hours on a whole fractionation planet 🤣🤣💀
Isn't there a hotkey to turn on/off a light around the mech, kinda like how Factorio has the flashlight?
Alternatively, you could redesign the mech using Science parts to make it glow, though I don't know how strong of a glow those give.
press L (or whatever key you set to it)
@@Koh-Wei-Jian the mech's lights really aren't that strong though. They need to add some lighting buildings.
I think the blue proliferators on the Deuterium fuel would provide better fuel energy, and fuel generation?
correct, but +150% energy on construction is also going to eat away at that advantage
"...rambling on about it in the comment section like you know what you're talking about..." - characterizing the hundreth of the internet making as much noise like the half of it. :D
Must... Have... Moar... DSP!!
Something is wrong with your splitters priorities : fractionators keep jaming :( Had to set input AND output priority to the lower rings to unjam the fractionators (19:11 in the video)..
It only gets stuck if you forget to set input priority on the splitter near the spray coater. (i ran into this too)
But Icarus has lights on it
this build gets stuck on a regular basis - the fractionator just quit working even though there is enough storage on the output line and enough material on the input. once i collect the material inside the fractionator, it works again... anyone else with this problem?
It always bothers me that Nilaus puts his proliferators backwards lol
The poles you use to mark the meridian lines, don't they use lots of power on their own?
Yupp. But he has power sorted so it's fine.
I thought the loop or other measure wasn't necessary anymore because the fractionators are selffilling now. The create a stockpile of hydrogen per frac.
Tried the blueprint for the fractionators. They got stuck before they filled up the tanks with deuterium (they made it half way). They had too much hydrogen and they couldn't get rid of it, so I think you're right
@@Calihan I've built step by step following Nilaus and my tanks get filled to the brim. You could check the priority of the splitter bringing hydrogen in. If the priority isn't set for the loop but for the ones incoming from the PLS it stucks.
but we like rambling.... on thing that we do not understand... hehehe.....
joke aside... nice video there....
I used the exact blueprint for the fractionators, I only changed the stacking part to stack four belts into one. I made sure to keep the input priority to continue the main loop, but all fractionators got stuck almost immediately...
Now I even tried with the original blueprint, no changes at all: the fractionators all got stuck after very little time, not sure why. Could issues with power cause this?
@@AronFiechter Hi Aron. Mayne the same problem I had: I didn't use the splitter at the point where the hydrogen enters the loop. And even then u need to set the input from the loop as priority. Otherwise the whole thing gets stuck. Took me half an hour to find out 🙈
@@Goofman79 nope, I had pasted the exact same blueprint, no changes. In my case I think it was a power problem: insufficient power led the small single-fractionator loops to "overload" (because the fractionator couldn't process at full speed, I guess) and get stuck.
You could make 3 to 5 ratio with proliferated ice cubes (3.6 == 4.8). Why? Well, while ice cubes are infinite, you could still benefit from more carbon nanotubes I think.
Nilaus hey i dont now you can drag item in blu print like a normal item if you heve 1 row of it is not work with all items but you can tray it
Why does it jam all the time?
Massive consumption of blue paint, tho. won't you rather double your fractionators, and consume no paint?
Why fractitonator produces at 2% and not at 1.25%?
because that is how Proliferators work with Fractionators... 25% would be irrelevant
why are my fractionators locking up? :(
Stackers! 🤣🤣🤣
It looks like this fractionator setup works great but I dont understand why) Shouldnt all mini-loops eventually fill up with evenly distributed stack sizes since they do not allow hydrogen to leave? Even in the first loop, I would imagine, it should become stack height 2.5 on average and end up around 4500 items/minute, but it stays higher than that for some reason. 🤔
Because you're preferring in from feed and preferring out to the loop, it's essentially swapping the two belts. Very clever! I'm still getting my head around the math of the 3 stacks propagating further down the feed belt and what the odds are that the last fractionator will end up with a loop of only 3's (possibly infinitesimal, but not 0, I suspect).
When I try this loop, the fractionator gets stuck after sometime due to to hydrogen stacking inside fractionator.
@@orion7311 ...how? You have two belts in, and two belts out. Unless you're using a slower belt on the outbound for some reason, or the main feeder belt is backing up all the way, how could it possibly jam? It's not like the fractionators are adding any more resource.
@@matthiasoc7141 I am also confused, I don't know whether it's an issue with my ILS feed but it is same as the video. I will cross check my belt to check whether I have some green ones, I chain upgraded them after i initially built them with mk2.
@@orion7311 i am also having this issue I have tried a variety of things. Have you solved this?
Anyone else having problems with the fractionators jamming, came back to my world and both had jammed.
I found that happened if you had power issues.
What's the point of proliferating proliferators mkIII??? 😅😂
More charges. It is absolutely worth it
@@Nilaus also putting drones only into requesting towers it significantly slowes transportation rate. If you can't afford 50 drones into a tower then split them half.
@@Nilaus there is no confirmation that it gives more charges, if it only comes into poliferator the info about 75 chargers disappearing and regular 60 charges apears. No reason to proliferate proliferators.
USE THE CUBES 4 LIGHT.
U know those bright cubes to do science stuff.
U don't need a lot.
Try that Dude...
.
U R Awesome.
.
~~🙂♾😎
Eh, nilaus, not to do a bummer, but you need iron
This doesn't work anymore as expected. Using stackers will make the Proliferator less effective. Way less the more it is stacked. Using the blue stuff on a not stacked item will make it get 3 yellow triangles, using it on a stacked item will result in only one item in the stack being count as proliferated. It is very important to know that as a full production will only scale up to the point of the least proliferated item.
None of what you said is correct. It works perfectly and also on stacked items
An actual criticism of the fractionators. because you used slower belts, you are not filling the inner loop. i'd argue to use max belts always. but your tiny inner loops are always full so meh
again, i feel refractionators are really obsolete once you have a deuterium gas giant and particlae colliders to make it. I have none.
This build is faster, takes less space and uses less power than particle colliders
I think "piler" is fine ... There, I said it!
Most of the complexity and footprint of this design is not doing anything at all.
Each single fractionator loop that outputs 3 stacks to the outside raised belt is just feeding that 3 stack to the next splitter and the next frac. That 3 stack might be used (becoming 2) or not. Either way it is still going through all 8 fracs a single time. Same as if all the fracs were inline, in a single loop of 8. IE you've changed a straight telephone cord into a spiral telephone cord.
What the splitters are doing is adding a 1, 2, 3 or 4 stack to an empty 0 spot. Same as if it was a T-junction back into a single loop of 8 fractionators. Except it is taking up double the space it needs to with all the individual frac loops.
With integrated logistics hydrogen comes out of the logistic station already stacked 4 high
This is not an efficient build.
You need to put Piler after Fractionators. In your way you will end up with several belts carrying 1-4 stacks of Hydrogen. Also with your build you have to leave more space between Fractionators.
Why do you need Proliferator there? It will only reduce the required number of Fractionators by 2, but it will eat a lot of Proliferators. So your actual build will be bigger and require more energy and resources.
All you actually need is a single round belt with Hydrogen and one Piler at the end.
Your argument is not great when it involved saying no to a factor two efficiency from Proliferators.
@@Nilaus It is not efficient to create Proliferators build to support Fractionators build. Also you ignored the first argument with Piler at the end of Fractionators circle. You lose efficiency there.
One standard section near equator gives me 70.67 Deuterium / sec. I also get stacks of 4 from Interstellar Logistics station (requires research).
You've both got a point. Having the shortest amount of belt with a stacker restacking would be better. Eight fractionators with rings has more belts involved than if the rings weren't there and with only one stacker restacking, that's not as efficient as w/o individual fractionator rings. The profilerators are useful if you want 2x the dueterium in the same amount of time (2x the power).
An improvement would be to have stackers on each of the fractionator rings, immediately after the fractionator and before the splitter. For the main input ring, rather change it to not be a ring, and ensure that the input is 4x stacked. In this model, the fractionator rings are always as short as possible, and as stacked as possible, then any holes are fed with full stacks as needed. All fractionators in this design run at 7200/min.
Enjoy the content Nilaus, super crisp looking, hope the above helps. (Maybe you already figured this, I'm late to this series!)