Why Do Miracles Happen in Churches With Questionable Beliefs? - Ask Pastor Tim
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Why do we sometimes witness healings, conversions, and other manifestations of power in ministries that present questionable teachings? I am not referring to the larger, more public word of faith or New Apostolic Reformation ministries that are widely known today. Specifically, I've observed in my city in Canada that some churches with leadership leaning towards word of faith teachings seem to experience what appear to be genuine miracles. Why might this be?
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Well said. We need to be careful among other Christian denominations as we are not God. Jesus is the Only way!!
Thank you for such an open and honest perspective, a lot of good meat in this discussion.
"Lord, whatever gifts You're giving today, give them to us."
Amen!
1 Corinthians 14:1.
I really like that, “If they’re solid on the scriptures and solid on Jesus be very carefully to dismiss them, because the devil isn’t in the business of making people solid in those points.”.
God is encouraging our Reformed bros to testify of what they have seen and heard and other Reformed bros to express their desire for spiritual gifts by his mercy. Praise His name!
On miracles, I think pastor Tim is pretty much right, there is no reason in scripture to think miracles are gone. I am at a ministry that you see lots of miracles, ive been to a good amount of different churches and in my estimation, this is more rare at churches. The people at the ministry I'm at that are blessed like this, a good amount end up leaving after, though there are some that stay and have their faith established. I think if the person doesn't have good intentions as far as righteousness, still God grants them the miracle a good amount...... in the bible Jesus healed 10 lepers and only 1 came back to give God glory
Praying for Mack! We need that book! I’m fascinated by the Revivals that took place in Hebrides & in Whales. My heritage is Welsh & Scottish & that side of my family are Christians rooted in Christ. I just saw a documentary about their migration patterns to areas in the USA.
It’s good to see The Lord is giving you the grace to continue to stand against the hard hearted, unbelieving, murderously proud individuals that sadly flourish amongst this generations heady, intellectual, cessationist community….
Most today go and sit in the neat and tidy school settings in an attempt to study the lives of the burning ones, seeking to have affiliation with them, as it will help with their ministerial ambitions
Therefore they seek to live off the smoke of those ancient burning ones ….
Yet as Christ was heard proclaiming, if they had actually lived in the days of those very prophets of old, they would of had them stoned….due to their unbelieving hardness of heart.
May The Lord deliver us from this wicked and perverse generation of a truth ….
Can you explain to me what you mean by “the burning ones”?
@@lounsburyhomeschool1205
A few marks of the burning ones -
They cannot but speak that which they have seen and heard - (Jeremiah 20:9, John 5:35, Isaiah 62:1, Acts 4:20-21)
They would rather die than deny Him - (Daniel 3:17, Matthew10:39, Acts 5:21, 1 John 3:16, 2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 11:25)
They are burdened to cleave unto Him with all their heart, in order that the fire of His love does never go out - (Luke 12:35, Matthew 25:1-8, Psalm 42:1)
They know that they can do nothing without Him - (Romans 8:14, Ezekiel 1:11-13, John 15:5, John 6:63, Galatians 2:20, 1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Thus they shall be found fleeing from the shallow, presumptuous, proud, so called happiness of their generation, and thus instead will be found sighing and crying in secret as they desire nothing but to behold more and more of Him and His glory of a truth - (Ezekiel 9:4, Malachi 3:15-18, Psalm 89:49, Judges 6:13-14, Ecclesiastes 7:1-6)
@@lounsburyhomeschool1205 I have tried replying three times, but someone keeps deleting my comments
@@hadeswhereisyourvictory that’s weird I just saw this comment fine
Will pray for Mack T health. My dad is very ill too. And another dear friend of ours. I can't wait for that book. Jesus, please be with us.❤
I have seen several accounts of pretty dark stuff & outrageous acts going on in Canada in the Word of Faith churches. I would hope this fellow is Praying earnestly for discernment & test the Spirits & ask GOD for guidance. Pray always & mine the Scriptures for direction. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🕊
Brother Tim💪 never disappoints👏👏👏👏
Bow down before me and I will give YOU ALL THIS ,a kingdom of this world..health , wealth and glory.
This is so helpful, my family is in circles like this and my father is a pastor of a church just like this. Much of the black Christian community have this type of exposure to Pentecostal/Charismatic WoF/NAR and as I’ve gone into reformed circles online and learned theology and apologetics I haven’t been sure of how to properly look at these things instance by instance-testing the spirits.
To do what degree is the spirit being exalted a red flag? Tongues is seen as this way to get prayers answered like some really important thing. But they insist it bypasses the mind as a feature.
Much of what is taught appears to be entirely semantic argumentation. Going into the Greek but it almost bypasses the message of a passage and redefines it by the individual words. Preferring certain translations because of the specific wording to take the sermon in a particular direction. I’m still a bit unsure but I don’t know if it’s worth staying a part of my dads ministry.
Another core issue In terms of testing the spirit - are they solid on "justification by faith alone"?
By My Spirit says the Lord
Before I became a believer, I was heavily into the new age..and when I went to retreats, I saw miracles. Satan is the father of lights and also Scripture says that Satan masquerades as light. Yes, test every spirit! Not every miracle is from the Holy Spirit.
No you saw counterfeit miracles. In the end, they led to death. Satan is the father of *lies.
Great question and great answer.
Amen brother.....
While serving in India, Amy Carmichael received a letter from a young lady who was considering life as a missionary, asking, "What is missionary life like?" Carmichael wrote back, "Missionary life is simply a chance to die."
Thanks for your honest and balanced views on this.
I spent about 10 years in a Pentecostal church. They had good bible teaching. They prayed a lot, before and after the church services. I had a few wonderful life changing encounters with God during these times of prayer. A big problem they had was “copy catting”. If something extraordinary happened to one person it would become a fad and everybody copied, which was basically phoney. They also did a lot of shoehorning when it came to speaking in tongues. As a young Christian I had 5 guys giving me 5 different methods on how to speak in tongues. One guy told me to imitate a baby and say: “goo goo ga ga”.
I think a good intention as far as a miracle in life is, "I can serve God better if God grants me this" or "People will come to know my God is real when they see that he did this thing in my life" . Anything that is inclined towards selfish, for whatever reason, God grants it, I'm like certain.....I've seen it a lot of that, but it really is of no lasting benefit to that person
Please, i hope you remember to notify us when Mac has completed his book.
God bless you Pastor Tim.
This is the best explanation on the subject thank you for answering all my questions in 33:54 minutes
Don't mean to hypenyou up but youve truly demonstrated that you're a true man of God.
Tesing the Spirit isn’t about miracles, it's about the Word and the fruit. If someone carries out miracles and has fruit, that person belongs to God, period.
Please pray for me my friends. Thank you
There are so many things talked about in this discourse, and I agree with them. But I want to make a small comment on the sidelines:
Systematic theology in the western world has done the single-most harm to the reformed churches. Because they made it about the head-knowledge - not heart.
Bible says that "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?" (Jer 17:9-10).
Everything is from the heart.
I have seen people steeped deep in theology feeling proud of answering the complex questions "rightly", and using their mind to decipher complexities and seeming contradictions in their mind half-spiritually & half-carnally.
While doing all this, I could see they have grown cold in heart - for God as well as people.
It's easy to sit in your chair & think that you love God by the fact that you are talking so much about God & doing the right things (ex. living a prudent life).
Can you elaborate more on the point that systematic theology makes it all about head knowledge? What made it so? Is it deliberate or, they are not aware they make it about the head?
@@a.krishna3924 One of the reasons why they probably make it a head knowledge through theology - i.e. for example, head knowledge of doctrine of salvation, doctrine of irresistible grace, doctrine of election, etc. is because it's a backlash or reverse reaction of heresies prevalent like since always (even starting from the 1st century). The theologians think if they veer off from head knowledge of this theology, they will go astray like many others who did.
Those heresies do not rely on the scripture - many times deny authority of Jesus, and many times do not take scriptures literally.
But, the true church (as evident in early history written in the Bible) - relied on solid foundation of the scriptures - not head knowledge of theology, and believed in miracles & performed miracles just as written in the Bible, and yet they were not led astray into heresies.
Now, today you will find 3 kind of broad church types among the Protestants: 1) Heretic churches performing miracles (in the West as well as in countries not traditionally Christian), 2) Theology-based "reformed" churches that do not perform miracles (mostly in the West) 3) Sound-Biblical churches that also perform miracles (mostly in newly-Christianized people groups).
The question is why are the #2) type NOT able to become more like #3) type?
It's because of lack of faith - acting faith - that works in the heart, head & spirit (all three) NOT just in the head.
The system of theology severely curtails the heart & spirit - essential for faith in the whole man.
@@divyaa155 agree very well stated!
A few real-life examples of convictions that are only in the head versus convictions that are in heart:
(On doctrine of election):
Head conviction: R.C. Sproul - He's well-respected for his "sound" theology. He spoke at length about the doctrine of election - all in cold steel-cutting justification - how it's all true Biblically. 'If others are not chosen, who cares?!'
Heart conviction: My Chinese friend: She's the most ordinary person to look at, a kindergarten music teacher with a family. And she said many times in utter disbelief and an awe for God that was discernable: "I still don't have the answer why God chose me. WHY me?" This made her heart so soft and looking upwards. I think that made her heart soft for God and for other people too.
---
(On doctrine of irresistible grace):
Head conviction: Any theologian: God is sovereign. And He's sovereign over people's choices too. So, when anyone truly comes to Jesus. He's exercising his choice, but the ability to have the choice is given by God. That is true. But, what fruit do you bear with it?
Heart conviction: My Chinese friend: Just talks about God in relational terms. She knows that God worked in her heart. He's very big for her. Even in despair and the lowest of times, she said, "God is still big." This grace just leads her to look and glorify God always. And this grace leads her to have a heart for other people also, those who do not know God/Jesus.
@@divyaa155 ❤️❤️❤️
Key words for my reference:
Methodist, Charistimatic, Alminian, John Wesley, Spurgeon, heart, simple faith, women preach in India
Scripture/person and work of Christ
Knows a hundred times less and does a thousand times more. Hyper critical dismissive
Dungeon Sensationalism Paul Washer Peru Tozer miracle front line
Hinduism Islam Buddhist Scottish Lloyd Jones
Do not despise prophecies
Do You think that God has called us to anything more than a simple faith in the Lord Jesus? Doesn't that change everything? Btw I do like your honesty.
This was very good!
Take a closer look at what your church is teaching ABOUT JESUS.
The beasts deadly wound was healed
Who healed him!
Thank you, Pastor Tim, I have one Pastor who believes the gifts are still for today and I have another one that doesn’t believe (both from a reformed Baptist Church) I’m wondering if that means that a house divided won’t stand🙏
Just have them watch this. I try to stay away from the phrase, “the gifts are for today” because they hold a bad connotation. Rather, the gifts belong to God and He does with them as He will. There’s no place in Scripture that truly and boldly says the gifts have ceased.
@@hunteroxentine3661Amen! I just found a church unlike any other I’ve experienced, it’s the first place I’ve seen the gifts recognized. They are simply a body of believers meeting in a hotel and houses with an emphasis on revival. The Holy Spirit is so strong there and there is so much love among the body. They are also consistently firm in the gospel of Jesus and the scriptures are the test for everything. I really appreciated watching this because I was thinking is this too good to be true? It feels so good to be walking in the will of the Lord and see his miracles coming to pass day after day.
Is it possible for a practising SDA to be saved?
My question is are they really healed? If that’s the case then why not go to the local hospital and “heal” the sick there. It’s like these types of churches are super focused on signs and wonders, and less focused on doctrine. I don’t believe that Jesus came to earth so we can perform parlor tricks, He came to spread the gospel and save souls.
The WHOLE point of miracles was EVIDENCE that a man was a prophet! Now in the NT is “miracles” could be done IF God can get glory from it! BUT proof these “miracles” supposedly done in these “churches” the person doing “the miracle” gets MORE glory than God! See…they are MENPLEASERS! Jesus said “they have their reward!” But those who please God will be rewarded with eternal life!
Because healing is not unconditional. It never was. Not even with Christ’s ministry. You have to follow the Spirit in healing and only do His will.
That’s why we as Christians can never understand the mystery of the Holy Spirit ! We pray in the name of Jesus as ambassadors of Christ Jesus .
Read the gospels, healings, miracles, and sound doctrine accompanied. That is New Testament. The Lord Himself didn't perform miracles in certain places because of their unbelief, He went to another town. He called woes on Capernaum for their unbelief. I'm afraid many of us who have seen the deception of many charlatans have become cold to what is Biblical. We don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Btw many in hospitals aren't allowed to have random people in their rooms to heal them and I'm sure many don't want a preacher coming in their has to be faith for the healing of God choses to act through a vessel.
Maybe ask Jesus and the apostles and Stephen and Philip that question... why didnt they go into the local hospital and heal everyone? Why did Jesus heal only one man at the pool of Bethesda when there were many sick ppl there? why didnt these guys go to every leper colony in Israel and clean them out? and why did they only raise a few dead people instead of emptying the cemeteries?
Short answer. God is good. People are not.
What does supernatural mean? I think most reformed persons will refer to God's providence as in the case of MS Carmichael or Mr Mueller etc.
Who's the mack guy that hes talking about? Does he write other books?
They don't
This is a new side of Conway that seems to of been emerging 🤔
I have lived long enough to see these types of ministries could with a bang but they have very little longevity. When the supernatural is absent the people drift away. They do have some genuine converts because God's word is read and proclaimed in some way. But generally it's rotten fruit.
What if this church or your church has the "questionable " beliefs"?
Remove your own plank,,, Work out your own salvation Phi 2 v12
The quick answer is they don’t. 🤷♂️
Where are you teaching from?
Grace Community Church. San Antonio, Texas :) it’s in the description on the home page of their RUclips channel.
There are no faith healers today. How do I know this? There is no news of hospitals being emptied out in succession due to the ministry of a faith healer. If I had the gift of healing I would not stop healing the sick in hospitals in the name of Jesus Christ until every hospital in traveling distance was empty. We see none of it. We HAVE seen none of it. The gift of healing is not extant today. Of course, cultists profess to doing it because they need the story to hype their attendance and offerings. But none of them actually have the gift of healing. Why? Because if they DID have the gift of healing from God, they would be about the Father's business and be healing people in the name of Jesus Christ and for His glory wholesale as Christ did. What do we actually hear? A questionable story about some healing in special circumstances which we are not in a position to check. How different from Christ who healed the man born blind? No special circumstances required there. Don't be fooled by sob stories from fake preachers/teachers who are reaching for your wallet. Apply this reasoning to other "sign gifts" and ask yourself if you are seeing actual mighty miracles from God or are you seeing fakery.
@@granthodges3012 Maybe ask Jesus and the apostles and Stephen and Philip that question... why didnt they go into the local hospital and heal everyone? Why did Jesus heal only one man at the pool of Bethesda when there were many sick ppl there? why didnt these guys go to every leper colony in Israel and clean them out? and why did they only raise a few dead people instead of emptying the cemeteries?
As if the countless servants of God all over the world whom the Spirit works healing through are represented by the few outlandish tv personalities, 🙄 please. Y’all always say the same exact things to dispute the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it’s really tiresome. Especially with the amount of pomp that’s displayed.
Read the Gospels. Jesus healed massive numbers . Also no hospitals, but you knew that. @aaronsimonsen2893
@jtika1978 if they had the gift of healing it would be on the nightly news.
@@granthodges3012 no, it wouldn’t. The “nightly news” is controlled by the enemy. Also, there have been enough videos of healings & still the denial persists. A wicked generation demands a sign. Continue in your denial & disbelief though. The powerless gospel of cessation.