You DON'T NEED a "Full Frame" Cinema Camera
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- 5 Reasons You DON’T need a “FULL FRAME” Cinema Camera.
The Sony Fx9, Fx6, F3, A7s3… Three of which have the same sensor… The c500mkii, The Panasonic S1H, The Alexa LF, The Red Monstro and now Raptor, the Kinefinity Mavo Edge… You get the point. Large format, Vista vision, Full frame (Stills full frame! I don’t consider super 35 to have a crop for cinema, it’s the traditional standard don’t crucify me).
Anyway, large format has not just arrived but is now a widely available standard available to filmmakers at all levels… and low budget filmmakers stand to benefit from bucking the trend and sticking with Super35…
I know what you’re thinking. I gotsta get that creamy bokeh, I gotsta make sure the eyes are crisp and the ears are softer than a freshly laid turd... I gotsta have it because that’s the future and I’ve got to get onboard or my work wont look as good. I'm calling BS on our full frame GAS (gear acquisition syndrome - for anyone unfamiliar).
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00:00 Intro
00:41 Independent filmmakers stand to benefit from Super 35
02:17 An Arri perspective
03:23 The best value digital cinema camera today (Hint BMP...)
04:16 Over the top shallow depth of field can be impractical
05:31 Cheaper lenses (sort of… sometimes)
07:22 There’s so much more to the final image than the camera
08:35 Large format wont make your film “better”
09:14 Closing thoughts
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PREACH!!!! It really gets on my nerves when filmmakers think bokeh solves everything. I want to see where the story is happening!
Cheers buddy. Story, characters, pacing... I find those are the big 3
There seems to be a false memory that old classic films had lots of very blurry backgrounds. But when you go back and look at some of the most classic films or classic photography, that really isn’t that often the case. For one thing these lenses with F’s 1.0 or 1.2 are relatively recent. Older lenses were frequently F2 2.8 or even slower. Plus, film was far slower and grainier, and lighting wasn’t nearly as efficient as today. So how are you going to get those blurry backgrounds back then? Mostly, you didn’t.
Well, isn't that the job for writers, scriptwriters, and directors?
I would say the DP is pretty integral to the storytelling in movies and TV, but I may have misunderstood what you mean
Bokeh stays the same anyways it’s identical. It’s just a different field of view. So they really mean more bokeh at wider fields of view.
I'm so glad you're saying this! We've been watching movies shot on S35 film and shooting S35 film for a century. When people were shooting photos on 8x10 and 4x5 film, some people made a toy camera that used the super-low-resolution-for-photos 35mm film and turned it sideways, and because this was done there's a crop factor talked about for cinema cameras? No! Thank you for your awesome video.
Cheers mate. You're welcome
I strongly agree with you in regards to using Super 35mm sized sensored cameras. For me, in my filmmaking sensibilities, composing my shots is also all about avoiding the cliche. One shot I wish would simply go away from cinematographers, is shooting into and against the sun. MGM studios used to fire camera operators who didn't properly gobo their camera lenses and shot against the Sun. I still believe in a traditional on location approach of shooting with the sun over your shoulder and illuminating the face with a matched HDMI to get rid of the racoon effect across the eyes in harsh Daylight. In tight situations a simple reflector can also do the job correctly.
Thanks for chiming in Mark. I agree for narrative films, I don’t really like being reminded there’s a camera there filming. I want to get lost in the world and story. Although for the day by day branded content work I do I am guilty of letting that sun flare at 100fps all the time lol. Great tip on the HMI! I’m often working quite mobile in a small team and the reflector move is in use often
@@AlucinorProductions Excellent. Excellent 👍
It's amazing the way high quality filmmaking tools have become so affordable over the past ten years. Independent filmmakers at all levels are being given the keys to production quality. The challenge now really has become to tell great stories.
Absolutely!!!
what always amazes me is the growth of drone technology
Yeah getting proreshq in a mavic with a 4/3 sensor is pretty awesome
Arri Alexa still remains the most perfect digital sensor for me. No digital camera has mustered a better look IMO.
It's a beautiful "organic" image... no doubt about it
Well yes but question is if it is not just because of the huge amount of TV shows and movies shot in that thing.
And these newer cameras continue to lean more towards that digital sharp look I hate ugh.
Yeah Alexa is still a brilliant image to watch
Greeting from Perth this is an outstanding video mate! Thanks for sharing the true filmmaker thoughts. Hope to see more from the channel and local work.
Thanks buddy! We are a bit slammed travelling for work till Christmas but plan on doing heaps more, more often on the channel in 2022
Totally agree. A talented camera person with a super 35 camera will run circles around a less-talented camera person shooting with a full frame. Size, in this case just doesn't really matter.
Hahaha so true 👍
I love watching videos like this and nodding along like these are decisions I can make right now while my rig with a 5DIII sits behind me.
Really loved your video! I have the Alexa Classic too. Yeah would be great to see some Cinealta Alexa combo...perhaps a short film or just some footage lit well. I was looking for some Cinealta's for a few months, but couldn't find them anywhere - I think they're gonna be classics in the future as they have a Zeiss Ultra yet unique look about them. I ended up buying some Schneider's Xenar III's which were at a crazy low price - perhaps because their super-35 lenses too. Anyway, can't wait to start shooting on them. Will post you a link when I do. Take care .
Awesome buddy please do! We have a bunch of shorts we'll be making next year with the CineAltas and Alexa... will post an initial video on them probably towards Christmas after using them on a couple tvcs and a big corporate shoot. Thanks for the kind words!!! I love the Alexa Classic
great video! imagine spending all your money on a bigger sensor but left nothing for glass, lights and grip.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with a full frame camera but nothing wrong with s35 either... and they're often cheaper!
I have a set of Sony Cine ALta Mark ii's. I couldn't be happier. They perform like Ultra Primes.
They are AMAZING! Agree
crushed it here. thanks for all of this very helpful explanation. fantastic. you have a new subscriber.
Welcome aboard! Thanks for the kind words and sub!!! We've been a bit light on content this year but that should be changing from this week onwards. Aiming for a vid a week. Will sometimes be fortnightly though pending work. All the best
Great rant, thank you! MTF + vintage glass here, and it works beautifully.
Lol thanks! Good to hear
I actually can't stand the full frame 1.4 type look and Tenet got fatiguing to my eye with the constant shallow DOF shots. I started on FF mirrorless and once I discovered s35, loved the look so much more. It's also easier to pull focus on s35 as a solo operator. The only thing I really like to use FF for is interviews in not-so-great locations / run and gun work where you want to blur out the ugly set, lol. Great video
Thanks mate. You FF can be handy for taking the focus off less than ideal locations
Lumix Gh5 and a speedbooster with sigma 18-35 f1.8 is a win.
Flew a gh5 on a drone and luuurved it
Hey, im an AC and i totally agree with the point you are making.
Also i have worked a lot with the cinealta and besides being a bit on the heavier side, they have a really nice image and they are a breeze to work with when it to comes to be an AC.
Loved the video and will subscribe! Cheers mate
Thanks mate! Really appreciate it!! And good to know on the CineAltas. Have barely had a chance to use them yet but love them so far. All the best
Thanks for that, helped me heaps
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching
Totally agree about the shallow depth of field hype mate!
I use it a lot in lens flare filled corporate/commercial work lol. But not so much in Narrative where we want to see and compose with the location in mind (though I tend to direct narrative work, not shoot)
That's just one of the reasons why C70 is the best solo shooter camera on the market, it can be Super35 or full frame.
Great point!
Great video and great points! How's that Arri Classic?
Thanks mate. The Alexa classic is awesome... but not lightweight and it chews through batteries. It's for work with a crew, I adore the image.
Rob Richardson said in the trades about shooting AIR with Ben Affleck, they couldn't get enough lenses for 3 cameras if they shot full frame. They ended up getting two prototype models of the Alexa 35 from ARRI, while Affleck's RED was C cam until the third model showed up.
Wow thanks for sharing that's fascinating! One of the reasons we'll likely be picking up an Alexa Mini (which our Classic can B-cam to) in the future - lens compatibility (AND PRICE 🙂)
Great combo with our 6 lens s35 cinealta set.
Thanks for watching!
This makes total sense. Story first, practicals second (locations, lighting, costumes, etc.) and then - if you can afford it - sensor size third. :-)
Great way to put it!
Good points man, I never felt I need FF, S35 is the sweet spot for me :)
Me too. Full frame has a place but between c500mkii and a c300mkiii... I'm taking the 300 with 5k of extras :-)
Wow such an well executed point. I loved this! HOW DO YOU ONLY HAVE 3k SUBS!?!?!?
Amazing work! SUBBED!
Thanks mate. Appreciate the positive feedback :-)
Amen! S35 has a lot of really nice advantages, especially with lenses. Use whatever you have or can afford and put money into crew, actors, lighting and lenses. I shoot both S35 and FF, but it’s the S35 gear that is used most often.
"Put money into crew, actors, lighting and lenses." 100%
Great video. I'm starting a Cinematography program September 1st and have been looking into the older camera set ups as they are cheaper. I wanted a fx6 but they're unavailable everywhere I look. I've been thinking about the FX3 but preferred the FX6 cause it had better low light abilities. But I've found some great deals on older models and because I've been shooting of a 80D and never had a cinema camera I don't know if it's worth doing older for a complete kit or investing in something newer being I won't be able to upgrade for a couple years and will be having a lot of projects required. So guess my question is if going older would be better or going newer with the FX3? The older cameras I've been looking at are the Red Scarlet-W Dragon 5K, RED Scarlet-X Mysterium-X Pro, A7iv, FX6, c200, Red One Mysterium-X 4.5K.
Scarlets are excellent imo. Still miss ours sometimes. I would also consider the 6k pro. Has excellent image quality. Prores or braw. Super35. Built in nds. X2 mini xlr inputs. I recommend that camera to anyone getting into filmmaking. For content creation there better cameras with autofocus etc. But for filmmaking and great quality and unrivalled value... 6k pro all the way.
Thank you for doing this video! I actually just talked about this a couple videos ago "Full Frame is NOT cinematic" Thank you so much for saying this! Fantastic video!
No worries mate. You're very welcome! Appreciate it
You're 100% right! Great video!
Cheers mate!! Much appreciated
Awesome video, thanks brother! I mostly do documentary style work where I don't always have time to light scenes. How significant of a difference do you think there is between the low light performance of super 35 vs full frame? Currently on a Lumix S5 but wanting something with internal NDs. Thanks!
I think it really varies sensor to sensor. For example the Alexa LF can look cleaner than the Alexa because you downscale the noise to a lower resolution, rather than potentially upscaling. I will say I can’t live without internal nds now for fast paced work. I’m hoping the next gen r5c somehow gets nds in it. Love them on the C70. I think Sony is prob king for low light atm… although we own canon and Alexa cams atm. We’re about to shoot on the Venice 2 and fx6 for a week. Lots of low light and night shooting… will def have some content about that coming here soon
@@AlucinorProductions awesome thanks brother! appreciate it
Full frame sensors are great. I love the look, they are better in low light and they create a super shallow depth of field….But, I love Super 35mm cameras mainly the URSA mini pro. It’s all about the lenses, your lighting, your framing. Never had a client say they have hated their video because it wasn’t in full frame nobody is going to notice.
Completely agree
I do all sorts of tests on bmpcc og, and I'm glad that there is such a camera, dng raw is power, and the sensor was made at the same factory as Alex's sensors, so I think bmpcc original is closest to the movie image if there is no money for arry or red
Thanks for commenting! Do u mean the original bmcc or the first bmpcc?
@@AlucinorProductions first bmpcc
Cool
Great work and presentation
Thanks mate!
Those cine alta primes look amazing, would love to see a deep-dive on those🤩
It's coming... was meant to be August but will be October... which is when we should be getting more consistent online content out
I completely agree with this video, but couldn’t one invest in full frame and just solve some of your cons by stopping down? If t2 is hard to nail focus then use 5.6. If there’s too much light, grab some ND. I just feel like you can always limit the strengths of full frame if they get in the way of your creative vision, but you really can’t make s35 full frame. At least not without introducing other issues (sometimes).
For sure. But there's absolutely savings to be had in super 35 cameras and lenses both to hire and buy (compared to full frame) used and new. Full frame cameras and lenses are great. They are just (typically) more expensive than their s35 or apsc counterparts. And it appears that the perception that s35 is old or not future proof may be driving down demand (certainly in the used market) and therefore prices.
please do a video on the effect a cinema lense has on the image
Plan to compare the cine altas to our zeiss zfs and sigma art zooms. Also maybe hire some other cine primes to compare... also evaluate the lenses on their own and compare working with them with an AC and single op vs cinemodded stills lenses
On the flip side of this are the s16 sized sensors (original bmpcc) and the cmount and other s16 lenses out there. Angi, SOM Berthiot, even Cooke made fantastic glass that covers those sensors and it is ignored because the s16 sensor class is mostly gone at this point (correct me if there are newer cameras in that range). I'd like to see a slot for sub S35 sensors to become viable again.
Yeah agreed that'd be fantastic. I don't personally have much experience with s16. Shot a tiny bit of super8 back in the day but that's it. I have seen s16 lenses going used at great prices though
My Fs7mk2 is a cracker of a camera (would like some higher frame rates in 4K of course) and I won't be upgrading it for some time. Adding a metabones adapter gets pretty close to the full frame look if needed. My go to for interviews is a Rokinon 50mm through the Metabones at T2.8. Beautiful flattering look that can be punched into with no loss of detail. Marketing is driving a lot of the hype around full frame and yes have to agree, the vast majority of our much lauded classic films have all been shot on academy or on super 35 and they all look superb and more importantly have great stories. The Third Man on full frame, missing out on seeing those brilliant backgrounds in the dark in any detail would be a travesty. Looking at an FX30 as an additional b cam with no reservations.
I agree with you, marketing has A LOT to do with the the hype around full frame. It has it's uses for sure, it's not bad but between the companies marketing and RUclipsrs jumping on board with every announcement it's easy to see why people have such a bad case of GAS. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) . Great to see you taking advantage of the trend by utilising awesome and less expensive options. I think holding cameras longer as you have is something we could probably all learn from. We've shifted systems a couple times in the last 3 - 5 years, but it's always been driven by making our job easier or faster. From RED to BMD gave us built in ND's, good onboard audio, lighter cameras and a faster post codec to work with. The shift from BMD to Canon (though we kept the BMPCC 6k pro and sold the Ursa) was about having a lighter camera with auto focus for gimbal work that doubled as a stills cam (Canon r5c) and a cleaner in shadows A video cam with autofocus for interviews (Canon C70). Always best to buy for your own reasons, not the hype train.
@@AlucinorProductions Have always got excellent feedback on the audio quality from the FS7 - not a great strength for Sony and their pre-amps until that camera, and often overlooked for the single operator recording straight to the camera. The fx line (fx30 0r FX3) are an adjunct because of the autofocus, but the majority of my work is manual focus so the FS7 still does the job. Did a job with a Venice as the A cam and the FS7 as B cam and not that much of a difference to be honest - mainly down to having Superspeeds on the Venice (beautiful) and more importantly a gaffer to throw the light around on a massive area for an agricultural equipment shoot harvesting in Northern VIC. Light is more important when you can control it.
@@terryhope2074 Light is more important... BOOM
After you've installed your lens, follow focus, v mount battery - any buyers remorse over the Alexa classic weight? I had one on my easyrig vario and it's the only time I can recall the easyrig chord pulling through its travel straight down - like a scene from jaws:). No doubt about the image though.
Good question. If we'd bought it as our only camera (or main corporate cam) maybe we would... but no not at all. We did get an ergorig for shoulder work though.
There was an excellent "CineAlta Lens" review done by Mark McCarthy of Sparky Films, (under RedShark Review) about 4 years ago. It was very favourable, I also came across another review which compared these to "Zeiss CPs" and "Ultra Primes".. These lenses out performed the CPs, came close to the Primes...I bought the 6 Lens set... very happy with them, virtual no focus breathing and very sharp... beautiful image
Thanks for the article.... I have the UMP........I'll have to save up for an Alexa
You're welcome!!! Yes agreed they are fantastic lenses. I'm overdue to release a review. Hopefully out in May
Would love to see a video dedicated to the Cinealta set. Thanks for the great video here! Agree heavily with all of your points. Super 35 is still great and I think will stand the test of time. LF is good for the right project, but you do a great job of breaking down the cons of it.
CineAlta video is coming soon! Promise. Thanks very much! I agree, absolutely nothing against LF (we have an r5c) but you can often get incredible bang for your buck at s35 and save funds for other things... You can also spend a shedload on an Alexa 35 lol. But when they make an LF with that new sensor the price will be even higher
FYI I've scripted the CineAlta video. About to record. I may be heading away tomorrow for work, but it may be delayed. If that happens the video should be out by the end of the week. If I'm heading away it'll be out in a couple weeks. They are fantastic lenses... but heavy
The line "it forces you to get your sh- together" was hilarious.
Thanks buddy! Hope you got something out of the vid
Would definitely be interested in a CineAlta lenses video! Used to use these lenses in college, and everyone looked down on them, without any clear reason why (besides terrible body quality in the first iteration) Comparison with other lenses you have available would be great too. If you do have a FF camera, would be interesting to see how much coverage each lens would have...I've heard that some of them cover more than S35
Sure thing. Yeah I heard the 50 and up cover FF. Will test that out... yes I heard these ones could never really shake the bad build quality reputation of the first iteration. Thanks!
@@AlucinorProductions I used to have 2 of the original CineAlta lenses and hilariously they didn't fit my Sony CineAlta F35 (the rear of the lens barrel hit the PL mount lock tabs). After some adjustments to the mount I made them work, and they were beautiful. But a huge oversight from Sony back then.
Wow. Yeah I'd heard something about that with the v1s from someone years ago. Maybe on reduser... that's crazy.
Can confirm that at least 50mm on up will cover FF. A couple months ago I was able to throw them into an fx9 and they performed beautifully.
Awesome! I'm shooting a project with them on Ursa over the next 2 weeks. Not FF but first big client job with them.
I’m doing a couple docs for a producer/director who owns a canon c500. He’s all about that full frame shit, but I don’t think he realizes I’m just stopping down an extra stop or two to make up the difference 😂. My AC and I are both decent focus pullers, but we like to give ourselves every fighting chance. I guess it’s nice we get to be in the sweet spot for the lenses, but except for really wide stuff where you need fast glass for low light run and gun, I mostly think of full frame as a negative for the type of work I’m at rn. Like you said us indie folk often lack time, crew, resources, etc. until that changes I’m gonna stick to super 35mm. It’s the right sweet spot for me.
"He’s all about that full frame shit, but I don’t think he realizes I’m just stopping down an extra stop or two to make up the difference." - That made me laugh outloud and likely pee my pants a little bit, Thanks for sharing mate!
The perspective and the way lenses look is still different... you’re not as clever as you think... and you don’t know that much about cinematography/photography either.
Hey mate, I appreciate you sharing your critical perspective. But we are hoping/aiming to make this a place where people are kind or at least respectful to one another. Please keep that in mind. Where just talking about filmmaking. All the best
Except that the C500mkll is also a S35 as well as a S16 camera. Three cameras in one
To answer your question, yes. Whenever I watch a movie shot in super35 I picture in my mind's eye how much better it would be if it was in full frame... Lol. No, go watch Lost in Translation. Lance Acord gets super shallow DOF handheld shots in super35.
Great movie! Lol
PLEASE do a video on those cinealta primes!
We will for sure. But it'll be a while yet...
My c100s thank you. So many are completely affordable now and shoot amazing 1080p.
Troopers those cameras
Great video !
Thanks buddy!!
As someone said it below: story >>>>> image. Please do consider it.
100%
The Sony A74 using Super 35mm crop mode I will use to film
Cool
Where do you stand on the BMPCC 4K now? I’m divided between the XT3 having s35 vs the 4K but that BM resolution . There’s something I feel lacks from the Fuji, even though it has a larger sensor, but it’s hard for me to determine how valid those comparisons are since most demos with Fuji are done by enthusiasts. Great movie!
In terms of codec (braw and prores) bmd is wildly superior. But as a jack of all trades the xt3 (and even more so xt4) with autofocus is great. Tend to find bmd (6k at least) has more DR and grades easier. But I love my xt3 for stills and bts content. I do my youtube talking shots on xt3.
Amazing video bro, You deserve way more subs. It might seem off topic but I havn't seen any really good videos discussing rendering videos for minimal quality loss on instagram, if you have info on this I'd be all ears
Thanks heaps mate! That means a lot. I don't know much about instagram sorry. We have a minimal presence there and just use it to link to content here now, kind of like a brochure... but I don't spend time there
yes! this is so good! I just got done shooting narrative work and not once did I think to myself, I wish I had more SDOF, and thats coming from someone that loves bokeh! hahaha at some point s35 and s16 will be the thing that people shoot with because everyone is shooting LF and they want something different. Much like people shoot with film vs digital. great video!
Good to hear and thanks for sharing! And thanks for watching!!
S35 for something different for the win
I know this is miles away from your production grade equipment but I'm curious what your thoughts are on the new FX30 ($1,799)?
I've been researching the depths of the universe deciding between the FX30's APS-C (not S35, I know) lens ecosystem and the FX3 ($3,899) which is at the top of my budget but perhaps more future set if everything is going full frame.
I have no hardware of any kind now.
Which would you pick?
Hard to say I haven't used the fx30. But if you have no hardware I'd get the fx30 and use the rest for an editing machine most likely
Would love to see a video on the Cine Alta Prime from Sony.
Just noticed you guys did one. Watching it next
@@khanceptbelal hahaha was going to say... Here's one I prepared earlier
I still get great shallow depth of field with my Super 35mm camera. I use a Z Cam E2 S6
Awesome 👌
I own a Komodo, and was thinking about getting the Sony cinealta lenses but I know the s35 sensor for that camera is larger than the coverage the lenses live in. Have you found that to be problematic or would you still recommend I get the lenses and just crop in?
I personally doubt I'd make that investment for lenses that don't properly fit my A-Camera. I imagine the 35 and up cover it just fine (I haven't checked though). If you can get your hands on a set and see the results first that'd be ideal - especially the 20 and 25 which porthole badly on the r5c. We knew we'd have the C70 and Arri Alexa covered so were happy to pull the trigger... Keep in mind they're heavy too! Not trying to talk you out of them lol, but there are advantages to lighter lenses with a lighter smaller form factor camera. The Alexa is already a beast so the lenses feel about right on there.
After using my F3 for years, I bought an F55 for all the reasons you stated! Would be curious to see a video on the CineAlta primes
Loving that F55? CineAlta vid's coming in Jan 2022. Away a lot shooting till Christmas (then taking a break). Have a great end to 2021!
@@AlucinorProductions I'm loving it! Has its quirks for sure, but can't complain about the quality of the images it captures.
One thing you get wrong at 4:42 - It's actually the other way round. To get a wide angle on a Super35 you need a much wider lens than you would on a FF sensor, as you are essentially cropping in. Putting the same 35mm FF lens on a Super35 would look more like a 50mm lens.
You also fail to mention that you are sacrificing good glass if you have a camera bag full of FF lenses. Since you are only using the middle part of the lens, you are effectively reducing how good the lens is. And defects of the lens gets magnified, meaning you better make sure they are expensive lenses.
You also fail to mention the most important reason that Super35 is a bad idea.... space. If you have a set that has limited space and you want to get a lot into frame without the distortion of a wide angle, and you are backed right up against a wall, you will find the smaller sensor size very limiting.
That for commenting! Yep 4:42 shows a 35mm on the 6k pro (s35) then the 6k with a magicbooster (1.1 crop - close to full frame) with a 50mm. Maybe my language just isn't clear enough. Totally agree on your second point, great point. Third point, I hear you but day to day (corporates/commercials) it's just not an issue for me to be honest. But I do use both formats and agree full frame can be handy in small spaces.
@@AlucinorProductions I think it's more an issue in the UK where we have much smaller interiors. Somewhere like Hong Kong where you live practically in a cupboard FF is a must. TBH I don't like magic boosters since they cause more problems than they solve. Might as well just buy the appropriate prime lens used, for the money the boosters cost.
interested on a dedicated video on the cinealta primes please!
Coming Jan 2022 :-)
Do you know image circle of the CineAlta's? Do they cover the Alexa sensor in open gate without compromise? I'm thinking about buying a kit, but i don't have a chance to test them, the one guy i knew sold his kit and haven't tested it before.
Good question. I just have the classic (which doesn't do opengate as just the 16.9 portion of the sensor is active). All good on the classic. Open gate mode I'm not 100% sure. I'm planning a vid soon on them... waiting for an r5c to come in and get rf- pl adaptor so I can test sharpness on a high resolution sensor and also FF coverage
@@AlucinorProductions Awesome, thank you! :) I have a Classic that was upgraded to XR, so i can shoot 3.2k with it, tried with a RED 17-50 and it vignettes a little, i hope the Sony's are better. Meike would also be a good option, but they have only 3 lenses at the moment. Or Schneider Xenons, they are solid, FF, and as i could see, might be closer to Cooke S4.
100% agree, sometime I like deeper focus and prefer it to full frame. just picked up the c300mkii for a killer deal and I love it! The s35 look is so good still, I'm trying to focus more on everything else to do with film making process over the gear now :)
Great way to go!
Brilliant. But, for an indie filmmaker, what Sony (and Canon) is trying to achieve may be the future. Full format budget cameras with excellent auto focus. Just to clarify, I shoot on sticks with manual lenses but just for the sake of discussion, good auto focus on a full format sensor might be the best bet for many indie filmmakers.
You make a good point for sure. I would say good autofocus regardless of format is very welcome especially for gimbal / steadicam work. Especially as low light capability continues to improve across sensor sizes (but I take your point it's better at full frame / larger photosites etc)... I guess the key is getting really smooth autofocus transitions... focus hunting or "mechanical' looking focus changes really throw me out of being immersed in a story. Touch focus control with variable speed control (focus pull to focus pull) would be very useful... but at least for now... there's no substitute for a skilled first AC with great instincts... but your right for Indy Productions where the dp, ac, and operator are all the same person- autofocus can be a revolution
Hi there. Just recently discovered your channel. Really appreciate your content. One question... what are your thoughts on Ursa Broadcast G2? (which is basically a pocket 6k in Ursa pro body).
I used to own and work on Ursa 4K and last two years i work on BM pockets cameras but missing the Ursa ergonomics... What your take on this "new" camera in comparison to 4.6K and 12K?
Thanks in advance for reply ! Cheers!
I would still go the Ursa g2 4.6k over it. Fast sensor read speed and 120fps is really great to have. Great dynamic range. We have a 6kpro too and I suppose that's in between as that has the nds and two mini xlr inputs... I don't use b4 broadcast lenses so not a lot of use for it. But personally, I'd go the 6k pro over this at 1.5k less money. You can always rig it up or keep it small. The articulating screen, and nds make it soon much more versatile than the previous pocket cams for run n gun work
@@AlucinorProductions what about 12K in that case? Despite crap lowlight capabilities, high framerates an decent dynamic range which attracts me, this would be wise choice i believe.
Yep I would think so too. I just haven't haven't my hands on one yet so couldn't say from experience. But I've had 2 years with the G2 and it's still excellent... and prores it's great for freelance shoots
on the z cam S6 and loving it
I'm hearing great things about Zcam. Haven't got my hands on one yet, just realised they have a global shutter one out... would be very interested to check that out... but with what we have 6k pro, Ursa G2, 6k, Alexa Classic and Fuji Xt3... we'll most likely next add a higher quality camera with good face tracking autofocus for one person band interview shoots and gimbal work on corporates.
Bought a fully kitted out RED RAVEN with a dragon sensor this year for 3,000. I wish I could give this video three likes because this is sooo true.
Awesome!!! And thanks heaps!!! Much appreciated
I’d love to see a review of those Sony lenses. I’m very curious what kinda of character they have and how well they match up to the sigma cine lenses
It's coming early 2022
+ Hi I am interested in dedicated video for about Sony CineAlta T2 prime lenses)
It shall be done.. may take a month or so as I'm away shooting for 4 of the next 5 weeks
@@AlucinorProductions I’m curious of any chromatic aberrations they might have. I think their breathing is minimal and I really like the fact that they have a 20mm in the set.
Yeah me too. I'm using them on a big shoot in a bit over a week. Will likely share a big video on them in Jan. We're away a lot until Christmas, then taking a break
One thing I don't get is why they call it large format if it's full frame? Makes no sense in continuity with the Medium Format which is even bigger than large format.
Believe because full frame was a photography term. And therefore implies s35 is cropped (though s35 is/was the main standard for cinema glass) so large format implies something bigger. Agree though, it ain't perfect naming
Yeah I was looking at a comparison of top cinematic cameras and noticed a ton had a crop factor. So even if your intended viewing is at least some form of widescreen like 16:9, crop sensors are still okay?
Also what about 35mm full frame sensors? Same thing? Sorry, I'm a little new.
16.9 or 2.4:1 can be shot with any sensor size really. Check this article out, will prob explain things better than me😀 www.4kshooters.net/2020/04/26/full-frame-vs-super-35-what-are-the-differences/
S35 has been the traditional cinema size for years. Full frame has been a photography standard but also used in video since 5d mkii. So yes s35 is "cropped" from full frame 35... but there are many cinema lenses made for s35 that don't cover full frame... it's only really been with the convergence of the technologies that people have sort of considered it cropped. Like apsc to full frame
@@AlucinorProductions thank you, sir. Will look at the link you shared as well. It's a pretty substantial price difference on average between cropped sensors and 35mm full sensors. Had no idea it was a relatively new marketing gimmick, either, which you mentioned I think I'm your video. Take care.
Edit: And in light of recently learning that film for motion pictures is fed through vertically rather than horizontally, now it makes more sense to me how S35 or even APS-C (or whatever my Nikon D500 uses which is very close to that) isn't so far from what the industry standard has been for some time now. Now I just want to find a focal length reducer (0.5x) for this D500 👍👍
Drop a dedicated video on those sony lenses
We will. Be some weeks away though. Expect lots more content here starting Jan 2022
This may sound pretentious, but after seeing _Zack Snyder's Justice League,_ I prefer full-frame. Because I'd rather have control of how I want my videos cropped and framed after-the-fact. Also, I love how the full-time makes everything in the image feel so larger-than-life.
You can shoot 4:3 aspect ratio on arri although it's not full frame (if it's the aspect ratio you like). Not on the Alexa classic which is 16:9 but the later models that support open gate... I have been meaning to check out his version of the film... I think this may be the nudge I needed to go check it out
Full Frame and LF is literally just a loss leader for S35 and APS-C or smaller.
c70 구매 결정에 확신이 드는 이야기. 고마워 친구 :)
Cool
Even a a6300 super35 4k mode shows stunning quality for like 400$ bucks
👍
Also no anamorphic on 6k pro. Yes it can do it but the low read speed is doubled with a 2x ana
That slow read speed is the cameras biggest weakness imo
Please do a video about the sony lenses
Will do for sure
There was guy who using a Marshall 430 -4k-60fps. But using Atomus Ninja to the recording .
Marshall 430?
Crushes me when people put speed booster on their Komodo to squeeze full frame. Super 35 with a global shutter should be embraced! I shoot on Helium 8k S35 and love it. For ‘lower cost’ option than Red I love Canon C70 and of course Black Magic is best bang for buck.
100% agree
Sensor size shouldn't be a standard but a feature period
Great video, we’ve shot everything on our channel on the BM6K, you can get stellar images on S35
Hell yeah you can!
I Want to LOVE the 6k Pro, Like frfr. The look just doesnt cut it for me though its missing that LOOK.Some of you may know wht i Mean man i cant put A word to the look but
Can't argue with your opinion. You think or feel what u think or feel, nothing wrong with that. I've found it to be a great corporate work cam. What I don't like is the slow read speed, but at the price and feature set I can't complain too much
@@AlucinorProductions agreed, No matter my opinion, doesn't take away the facts its a good camera man, nice video btw
When 35mm groundglass based film emulators were heydaying on 1/3" and 2/3" videocameras, "because you can, not because you should" choices were happening. The signature of the newcomer was the razor-thin shallow depth of field. It does not look like things have changed much. - Now where does all this progress leave the SI2K camera, speedbooster and old f1.4 Nikon stills lenses, or the direct-to-camera Super16 lenses. - The orphanage?? The trouble with playing low-budget secondhand rose is forever being two generations behind. The traditional motion film sized digital format has become levelled out and very affordable. It was inevitable that a new best thing had to be evolved to keep the cashcows coming into the shed. 3D had its shot until the suits decided to defraud 3D viewers with faux-3D cooked up in post-production from 2D imaging. I wonder how long this new best thing will continue. Will it become "the standard" or a temporary novelty like 3D, when production value-adding becomes more expensive to match the sharpness of the new cameras/lenses.
Thanks for sharing your perspective man... Very interesting... time will tell I suppose... As for the 35mm adaptors... We had a Brevis on the JVC HD111E 1/3rd inch CCD 720p camera... then the 5D mkii came out....
It’s just about “thin dof”. The way you use lenses on larger formats renders the image differently no matter if your dof is thin or not. An 80mm being used as a medium-wide on a 65mm sensor-back looks COMPLETELY different than using a 25-30mm on the s35 equivalent.You’re just another example of someone who trying to be an elitist “know it all”- but knows very little in reality. Calling it a “novelty” shows a very fundamental lack of understanding about the art/medium. Large format is becoming popular because of the different feel of image all-around... not just “tHin dOf”
I never said the only difference is a thin dof. But it is something that I would say is overused.. as it was when the 5d mkii democratised fullframe capture back in 08. I also mention a few large format films I love, none of which really focus on shooting wide open the whole time but take full advantage of their respective sweeping formats.
Frontigenics. I am far from elitist. I am not sure where you got that from but have it your way if it makes you satisfied.
The new generation of full-frame sensor cameras are another addition to the toolset and I welcome them. They may well become the new standard.
Call it another artist pallette or whatever. My set of ancient Nikon lenses would fill those sensors nicely.
As with any artform, styles change over time. Will that alone draw or repel an audience?
The best use of any toolset is one which complements the story being conveyed and does not compete with it for attention.
Large format motion picture film had its shot as did several attempts at 3D over decades.
Producers who are pragmatic business folk tend to go for the least unaffordable options. That fixed 65mm film and 3D.
If a novel presentation form will get bums back on seats or folk streaming the daylights out of the servers, producers will embrace it for as long as the enhanced profitability endures.
Those Cine Alta's really don't get the credit they deserve. Solid set of lenses for an owner/operator. I've worked with the original one's but I'd be curious to see the improvements made for the mk iis.
We'll make a video on them in the coming couple months... just slowed down a bit by a lot of travel/production work till Christmas. They feel great
I just need 15 stops of DR and I'll be happy for life. (My bmpcc4k and xt3 on my desk looking nervously at me while I type this comment lol)
I love our xt3... would LOVE it even more with an extra stop or two of highlight latitude.
@@AlucinorProductions yeah, thats where Im at, I can get the crop down to x1.1 with my speedbooster when I use my Helios and Takumars on the XT3 so yeah a little more Dynamic range wouldve been amaxing on it. I feel like I outgrew these two cameras and seriously considering full frame for this reason. But there is so much truth in what you said in this video. I may just save up to 10k to load up a URSA G2 or a Canon C70, been staring hard at that Lumix S5 snd S1 but cant make a decision (as the aps-c crop on 60fps is bs imo)
@@eddieriosyt I'm happy with s35 or full frame. I just wouldn't spend more just for full frame (if that makes sense). But it all depends on budgets and what else u can buy instead. Lenses depreciate slowly, lights work well for years and years. Cameras depreciate so fast I find it hard to justify forking out 15-25k for one considering the quality images that can be captured with far cheaper cameras. (Particularly for independent narrative productions)... we do want to get a better autofocus camera at some point next year for light weight run n gun work... that may very well be an FX6 or something not released yet... we'll see. We'll keep the g2 and Alexa for PL glass narrative work. 6k pros aren't going anywhere as they are just such valuable tools and wouldn't sell for much
As someone who’s interested in buying some cinealta lenses somewhere in the future, please do not make a video about them so i could get them for a good deal :)
Will do buddy :-) Will probably compare them optically to the Zeiss ZF.2s and the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100. But also see what it's like working with them with a wireless follow focus etc as opposed to those still lenses
Oh hahahaha I just realised what you meant lol. You've got till mid to late January I reckon before I do a vid on them
for me filming on fullframe safes me a lot of money ... i am a hybrid shooter and i have only one set of lenses. Even with the fs7 i had glass for super 35 ... for me that is important. The zooms were never wide enough on the fs7 but staying in one sensor size for photography and filming is amazing
That's a good reason to be shooting fullframe for sure!!
You're lenses and cameras are probibly 2x more expensive, and 4x as big and heavy as a S35 though, so how is that saving money?
Sorry how do you mean 4x as big and heavy as s35? Not sure I follow. The point was that there can be great value had in s35 cinema and/or apsc stills glass compared to full frame options. The CineAltas compared to the Sigma cine primes is quite a price jump. As are fuji apsc to canon FF lenses. I just did a 9 day shoot on the cinealtas. My AC works at a local rental house. They reminded him of the sigma and he was super impressed with their performance and how smooth they are for focus pulling. To rent the sigma is $300 a day. We picked up the cinealtas for less than 9k usd. They are saving us in what would normally be rental glass and will pay for themselves very quickly at this rate.
@@tomastuoma i already have the fullframe lenses because of my stills camera
I just realised you were replying to the other comment lol. My bad
Yes dedicated Sony lenses video!
Promise it is coming soon
I'd love to see some more about the sony cinealta lenses
I wish we had some 2k/4k S16mm cameras come out, the amount of cheap but decent 16mm lenses is crazy
Apollo 11 shot on 16mm to 70mm film is something special, 70mm film has this weird feeling
What would u like to see in a video on the CineAltas? It'll prob be december to do something decent as I'm away shooting 4 of the next 5 weeks...
@@AlucinorProductions some comparisons to other lenses, don't expect super scientific tests
@@gdrriley420 No worries... Will try get my First AC mate in to get his thoughts too in terms of pulling focus, and setting that up with a Nucleus M
The URSA 12k has high resolution S16 modes... in fact it's one of the reasons we might invest in one next year. We have lots of high quality S16 lenses which are cheap, compact and produce stunning images.
@@flyingfox2005 that's an awesome way to go
I own a decent amount of good cameras a BMPCC4k and 6k Pro, a Canon R5 and a Red Komodo. My biggest gripe with my Super35 and MFT sensors are just field of view, not image quality.
On the wide end? What's the widest lens you're often using for the s35 cams? I think I need to get something wider than the CineAlta 20mm to go with those. Maybe a 14mm Sigma cine prime or a tokina 11-20 pl (cheaper option). Though I wouldn't anticipate using it often
Would you recommend the Sony A74
I can't as I havent used it
@@AlucinorProductions Ok fair enough
I'm definitely looking at the Canon C300 Mark II
Mk ii or iii? I imagine the ii is going pretty cheap these days
@@AlucinorProductions right 🎥
@@officialbrandoncoleman Shane shot an Aussie Indy feature on it called The Xrossing... just shot a new one called Violet that literally just wrapped. But he also used the ursa and bmpcc 6k pro. His only issue with it was cmos smear in high contrast scenes... bright windows contaminating darker interior scenes
Also, if you happen to get your hands on a new M1 pro or max MacBook Pro please make a review on it. Been low key addicted to them wanting get every filmmakers perspective on them 😄
hahahaha if I get my hands on one I'll do it just for you
@@AlucinorProductions 🙌🏽😁🙏🏽
This has been a really big topic for our team. We ended up landing full frame after doing a huge amount of research on how to balance Future proof and options. After understanding what lenses land where, and how they translate we feel really comfortable using a 50mm FF in place of a 35mm S35.
The pricing is for sure a good argument but for us, we wanted to have more flexibility in the long run for what we could do. Buying something that would have features that last 5 years but also has a 6k sensor so we can crop down to s35 for the creative and lensing choices, but on rare occasions, we can also use a speed booster on full-frame to go medium format to give another unique look.
There is a huge amount to debate and go through when it comes to lensing and production and I think the best thing to do is go through your production's needs and make the most responsible decisions possible. But I do believe we are moving in a direction where FF is here to stay and learning how to compose and tell stories with them is really important.
Great to hear the consideration you put into the purchase. Thanks for sharing your team's thought process!
grabbed the S1H mere months ago, it has REALLY dropped in price at this point, and I do actually use the S35 modes on it too. I’d be lying if I didn’t mention my eyes are ALWAYS watching Alexa prices though.
Heard great things about the S1H. Only negative I've heard is slow sensor read speed (similar to bmpcc). Has that been an issue for you at all for handheld work? Any jello? I'd imagine the ibis would help a lot.
@@AlucinorProductions I shot today handheld, and the 5-Axis was near flawless, even though I was shooting anamorphic. It’s not so slow that it really causes issues, unless you’re going for a “shaky cam” look.
Cheers for the info. Sounds like a killer camera
35 canon cinema camera is almost the better choice as you could always get and metabones speed booster giving best of both
Can also get a magicbooster for ursa or 6k. Can u put a speedbooster on the komodo?
Yes, yes and yes!
35 is full frame in the cinema world.
100%
The only reason I prefer full frame is because there are very few great low light options with dual native iso in s35. Pocket 6k and c70 is the only option from what I know but it pocket doesn’t have the dynamic range that the c70 has. If they can make a full frame 6k Ursa with dual iso, that would be the dream camera for me.
Low light shooting is a great reason to opt for a full frame camera... for shooting Indy shorts / features (films being lit etc) I don't see this as much of an issue. For videography etc I totally see your point. Low light is so helpful... and no doubt there's great use of low light full frame shooting in cinema too like the recent 'Kate' on Netflix
@@AlucinorProductions I share that opinion as well. I don’t do enough narrative that justifies getting a camera that doesn’t have the sensitivity that I need. I do weddings corporate non profit, and surprisingly I do a lot of low light wedding films. And before anyone says anything, no I’m not getting the A7S3. Lol I’m not a song shooter and I’m never switching back. I’m just shocked there aren’t enough superb s35 cine cameras like eva1 that have great low light. Sucks man. If it wasn’t for some of my issues with the EVA 1 I would’ve got that camera along time ago. But it’s now outdated in my opinion so I will have to wait an see what comes out from Panasonic. But whatever they do, I 🙏🏽 they make an EF, RF, and an L mount version. My goodness I would switch to Panasonic for my cine camera in a heart beat. EVA2 when?!???
I never used the EVA1.. it looked interesting... Are you shooting on the S1H? ... Can certainly see really good low light sensitivity being a must for wedding dance floors
@@AlucinorProductions I have pocket 6k, c70, r6. I almost got the S1 over r6 but the AF was the deal breaker. Plus I have a ton of EF lenses so as much as my heart desires to go Panasonic, it just didn’t make business sense. Glad I got the R6. That camera is extremely under rated. But going back to the s35 vs FF topic, i really don’t care about the FF look. It’s about practically for me and performance. FF just performs better and most of the FF cameras have s35 mode which makes it really hard to justify s35 in 2021.
@@gnkstudios6138 how have you found the c70? That's a camera we've nearly bought multiple times lol even considered selling our ursa g2 and getting one... but the g2 braw and prores combo at 4.6k is pretty hard to give up
Is red Komodo s35? B&H wording says it’s both…
It’s s35. Although FOV can get close to full frame with a speed booster I believe
My question then is give us a list of super 35’s for beginner Filmmaker’s that has an affordable ecosystem
Bmpcc 6k pro with used ef lenses