With so many Supers, some were bound to be stinkers. That aside, being able to select different supers, and all the things that went along with them, has always been one of my favorite design choices in Third Strike.
Indeed. For some characters, it’s like you get 3 different characters from the super select. Like Hugo, 3 very different supers with very different uses, setups, and meter management.
Some kind of meter selection mechanic would be nice. Since you have some characters like ibuki that have 3 good supers but they'll only ever pick (arguably) the worst one because it gives the best meter options.
@@feri7mble No argument here. Being able to jump out of a command grab because of the start-up is amazing to me. How did they ship that? How did the devs think that could be used?
As someone who enjoys playing Q, grab'n'blow could have been such a cool super... Could have been like a command grab super on someone who gets high reward on getting in while they turtle... Or like a follow up after EX Dash Punch with him and the opponent taking 50% damage
Yep. Self-Destruct is the only move that does the most damage, outside of Gill's Angel of Death.. and if you can trick your opponent into a/his Command Grab. You can get self-destruct. It's honestly my favourite special of his, other than Deadly Combination.
This is an important point, if it counters an air attack, the opponent gets hit 1-2, and then bounces back in prime position to block and punish the rest of it. This includes universal overhead.
Garou has the best implementation of a counter super that I've seen: Freeman slowly walks forward with shadows trailing, he immediately loses the meter, and if the opponent attacks and activates the counter, THEN there is a super flash.
This is also how Cooler's counter super works in Dragon Ball FighterZ. He adopts a stance, glows blue, loses meter, and only if the super is actually activated by him being hit will the screen freeze and go into the super cinematic freeze.
In fairness it can be pretty weird for a super to just not have a super freeze when you use it - I think Anji's counter super in GG Strive does this if it doesn't catch anything, and it honestly feels a bit strange. But it definitely is necessary from a gameplay perspective.
Come on Jim, you should know this. Q's SA3 is the worst of the 3, but what its really for is getting 3 free taunts. In the late game, getting three taunts is hard, but once you bust SA3, people have to choose, between staying on you, or letting you take the taunts.
@@spartanseventyeight8673 No I mean why is it a threat to go in once he's activated. sa3 hit grab is useless and very punishable. The gameplan shouldn't change, it's just not a threat. That's what makes it so bad
As a Chun-li main I've been experimenting a bit with SA3 and have discovered that it actually does alright against dive kickers like the twins which is a matchup I usually struggle against
Wouldn't Sa1 also work for that but be significantly better? You usually use that for Hugo to keep him from getting in and I imagine it would also keep out the twins.
Super fun video! So personally I think Twelve SA2 is worst than X Copy. And for Remy blue nocturne if you do it against a jump in. It don’t even fully commit 😢
You missed some of the other bad aspects of Blue Nocturne - for one, if he threw an air attack anyway, there's a good chance Blue Nocturne still wouldn't connect because it just doesn't work properly on non-grounded opponents. For another, every situation that you would use Blue Nocturne, his Flash Kick super is fully invincible so it works just as good if not better, plus it works for plenty of situations outside of counters.
Because Remy has a flash kick, the only situation blue nocturne is MAYBE useful is to bait an opponent to hit you by walking forward and intentionally losing charge. This is obviously risky and pretty terrible.
Remy's blue nocturne also doesn't connect properly on airborne opponents, so even if you catch a jump in with it you get like two hits and are punishable. Also applies if the opponent uses any move that makes them considered airborne, such as the universal overhead mechanic that every character has.
What sucks about Remy's super art 3 is that even if your react to an anti air PERFECTLY the whole combo will whiff after the first hit it makes me so mad, I get punished for making a good call
I love how they implemented Anji's counter super in strive. you don't get the screen freeze unless it hits. I think if blue nocturne worked like that it'd be much better
Unfortunate how this is only about Third Strike, I read "worst super" and immediately thought of Sol's Dragon Install 2nd in +R Costs THE entire bar Kills your tension pulse Has a multiple second long startup with no invincibility Drains your health until you have One HP And the ONLY upside is that you get permanent DI instead of temporary DI
It has one of the inputs of all time, too: 214214214214P+H. Though as Dustloop points out, that's actually kinda good because it means you'll never get it by accident. (And somehow this doesn't even get the "most wack input for a 100% meter, zero practicality move in +R" award - that probably goes to Dizzy's IK and its absolutely fucking glorious [2]8462P+H input. Yes, it starts with a down charge, then an up input, and then there are 3 more directions after that. It's very silly.)
@@SSM24_ ...I want to have a polite chat with the person who thought down charge followed by forming a lightning bolt with your joystick was a good idea for an input motion.
@@SSM24_ I mean, it's four tatsu inputs. We're not talking Pretzel or Summon Suffering motions here. I really think people make way too big a deal out of some inputs. Seriously. I can pull off a Summon Suffering basically instantly. It just takes practice. It's pulling it off in the stress of the moment that's a real pain in the ass, but even that just takes experience.
Oro EX SA1 has a really gimmicky corner setup: HP fireball xx EX SA1. If they jump out of the EX SA1 grab, the fireball hits and Oro gets a juggle. If they block, the EX SA1 connects. Might be possible to jab or uppercut out, not sure if Oro has invincibility on EX SA1, but every time Oro pulls this setup on me I always panic and never have the presence of mind to try it.
While this is true, the range at which you can successfully cancel cr.hp into super and have it combo is fairly specific, and the fact that cr.hp is so good at counter-poking will lead to a lot of whiffs when confirmed off of hits on outstretched limbs. There is a silver lining though (however thin): because cr.hp can be parried both ways, you'll have many opportunities to confirm off the opponent's parry and cancel to super as a punish on whatever they do to try to take their turn. This especially useful against dudley players who like to jump in with parry on your cr.hp once you've established it can counter-poke many of his moves on the ground. Still not worth it when you can just loop SA2 unblockables, but it's fun to meme sometimes
Well, there's naturally a way to land Oro and Q's grab super: you activate and then kick your oponent really hard on the knee. Or just slap the controller out of their hands.
First off, love the video and your content in general. Second, I think all of these supers are really underrated honestly besides Chun SA3. MOST of the supers in this game are Matchup dependent, but a lot of these ones in the video have some cool utility. Q can combo into SA3 off command grab into dash punch, cancel and then hit explosion punch in corner putting you full screen with time for a meaty HP dash punch, taunt, or you can get some cheeky resets after corner dash punch > activate > JUMP LP air reset and then get them guessing. They have to parry or block to beat the punch version but it loses to jumping, and qcf kick is a grab that can be jumped but loses to parry or block. The kick grab also does like mad damage. Also activating after dash punch midscreen can give you space and time to get double taunt against some characters. Makoto can do some tricky stuff with SA3 like confirm anti air Fukiage, cancel into a dash up fukiage for almost max stun, or use the long invul to get enough time to react to stuff and counter. XCOPY is just fun, you can get some freaky combos out of it with Urien and you're not playing 12 to be optimal anyway probably, right? Putting Oro SA1 is shady tho man! That super can blow up aegis/Yagyou Dama unblockables with the EX invul, be comboed into with cr. HP, and you CAN get 3 of them if you do chicken combo into the air version first. It's not amazing no, but much better than you made out I think. (I still play SA2 though!) I'll admit Blue nocturne is pretty bad, but you can definitely get some good mind games going with it. I'd recommend watching Dagger G's video on "blue nocturne tricks of the trade" for some really cool setups and tech for it, and high level 3rd strike in general. Despite all that, loved the video anyway and would be happy to change your opinions on these bad supers over fightcade some time ;) haha Source: Played the game (and most of the cast with these supers!) For about 12 years now
@@bloody4558oooof unfortunately I looked at your subscriptions and you seem to watch genshin impact videos. I don’t really think pedophile’s opinions matter so you’re gonna have to be quiet now. Sorry!
Super I of Ryu on this game is a love/hate relationship with me because it's so easy to miss it, theres tons of ways you can whiff in consideration with other supers, I know it's not a bad super. Another Highlight I want to make it's that Elena Super I for me is super underrated it's so useful for me. Amazing content JM! You're rocking this 2023.
In kof98, Daimon has the same type of counter-super as Remy. The super freezes time and the opponent can just jump away. Kof98um(newer version) fixes this, Daimon's super doesn't freeze time and it can actually catch opponents.
i was once hit by blue nocturne actually. i was playing with a friend to oki him with hugo's heavy clap. the clap was already in startup when he done so i was not able to do anything
You can combo into a super art three with q pre super flash. It’s a bit technical it’s possible, dosent make super art three any better but it’s possible
Q's super feels more like a lore bit due to it saying "DANGER!" while using it. Whatever backstory he has, there are other hints that he maybe either be a robot or a cyborg.
Stun Gun Headbutt is a legitimate terror in the hands of someone willing to actually play mind games using it. It has an anti-air set up with lariat too.
Definitely do this for other games. You're a huge ambassador for such a wide range of amazing (and kuso) games in our diverse genre of choice. I'd be interested to see what you have in your bag of tricks.
I remember when I first started to learn combos in street fighter that I tried to combo with twelve and couldn't do anything. I thought all characters had cool combos you could do.
Q's Super Art 3 is what we like to call "FUN". It's the dumbest thing, but man you get some salty people when you land the grab version of it. But in all honesty, Q's SA2 is my favorite. It's so satisfying to smash someone so hard, they bounce into the stratosphere upon impact with the earth.
You're so right about Remy's counter super, which got me thinking about counter supers in general. In Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, one of the meta characters Itachi has a counter super, which is really good. He subtly raises his arm to enter his counter state, and the game only pauses if it is activated. If it doesn't get activated, his super bar isn't spent. He also cannot be thrown while in this state, but he can of course be combo'd during the recovery of the move. I wonder if counter supers should generally be more like Itachi's 2X rather than Remy's SA3 or Cammy's U2.
I thought about Mark of the Wolves and Freeman's counter super, where he simply WALKS FORWARD and the only indication that he's doing it is a shadow trail that's fairly hard to notice. (Well, that and the fact that he spends his super bar) The super flash and pause only happen once he's caught you.
Shout outs to Alex for not having a good super. Everyone else at least has one that's functional, none of Alex's do anything significant. SA1 can be jumped out of after the super flash, you can't fully combo into SA2 without missing some of the hits and sometimes even the last grab of the super whiffs even if you get it right, and SA3 can be seen from a mile away and the only way to set it up is from Alex's heavy flash chop and even then it comes out so slow even my grandmother could react to it.
A few more notes on Blue Nocturne: -If you can manage to hit Remy's face but avoid his knee, then Blue Nocturne won't activate since there's no trigger area on Remy's face. It's extremely rare but ironically, I think one of Remy's ground normals is at the perfect angle to do this. -Blue Nocturne actually has a vacuum effect, but you're probably never gonna see this unless a Necro hits you from midscreen away with one of his normals. -Rising Rage Flash pretty much does everything Blue Nocturne does but better in every single way. It's a frame 1 motion input reversal that consistently works as a reversal, and can be used as a combo ender. Blue Nocturne isn't just dysfunctional, it's redundant.
remys is even worse than you gave it credit for. air connects fall out, and also, a counter super in a game with parries and invincible supers (remys other super, for example) has absolutely no niche. any time you would use this super, and it would work, his other super works too, except his other super works better and can work in more situations. so while these other supers are bad, they at least allow unique options for the character. this super literally just does nothing good. along with the issue of completely telegraphing its startup lol
Great video, but I have to mention that Oro's SA1 with all the buttons pressed can be comboed into with crouching heavy punch. Still not ideal but you get great damage and dont have to worry about the super being jumped out of.
Yeah no clue what the devs were thinking with the counter super. UI Goku counter super, as annoying as it is, is how you do it right. No flash, just a subtle animation.
That Q install could have been excellent if Q got a defensive or offfensive boost or heck super armour,it just does nothing and gives your 2 incredibly damaging grabs to a character who most times struggles to get in or is too busy getting comboed
Qs total destruction install is cool, think on shotos and tall bois you can get command grab in the corner ,lp dash punch, cancel to the install and as soon as it pops you can to his hit throw from the install, swaggy lil combo
I watch your videos and I’m always intrigued. Even though I’ve never ever been even close to average at street fighter. I watch these and think huh that’s cool and then remember I suck but still can’t enough of tips for third strike 😅
I think a counter super would only work, if the flash and pause to indicate it was a super, was after it triggers. The animation of lifting a knee would play, they punch into it, THEN the super animation plays.
Oro SA1 you can combo into the air version (the b strongxchicken, on the 3rd b strong sjc into air grab. and alex stungun is invuln going up, so use as anti air
The only instance of a Counter Super being done properly is Cooler from DBFZ. There’s no voice clip, super freeze, or cinematic, so it’s not as obvious. The problem with most others is if there’s a giant cinematic beforehand I know to just stop pressing buttons so I don’t get hit.
Nah KOF has plenty of counter supers done well, they just don’t have a super freeze until it gets activated. Street Fighter has always just been really really bad at counter supers
The funny thing about Necro SA2 is that the only available combo route into it (H spin hook > SA2) is completely outclassed in damage by a universal route Necro gets off of H spin hook anyways. That route is H spin hook > back HK > EX spin hook, which does more damage and has so much corner carry that it gives Necro the corner from anywhere
Something that was not mentioned about Q's SAIII is that he doesn't just have the touch explosion, he has an alternate one with 236+K which is a legit grab. It has worse recovery on whiff than the P activation but is more useful in the situation that you got someone blocking and trying to guess when you're going to push buttons. I like to push someone into a corner and use it as a tick throw for ridiculous damage.
Hey, I was a Twelve main for a while and still play them occasionally for fun. XCOPY has really niche matchup uses like against characters like Q but in general is a pretty bad super, so thank you for including that because everyone seems to think it's Twelve's best one even though it's situational at best. It gives Twelve a 1.25x boost to both damage and defense and lets Twelve retain taunt bonuses from someone like Q but on top of the flaws you mentioned it also prevents Twelve from using the opponent's EX moves or supers, which are pretty important for most of the cast. Twelve's EX moves are also pretty important so having a long 1 stock bar doesn't help at all lol
the fact that Alex isn't represented in this list of terrible 3S supers is a travesty, dude has one semi-functional super that people pick for the 2 bars of meter and the other ones are bad gimmicks.
You forgot to show Q's other alternative during super 3: QCF+K. That's an actual throw, while the one you showed with QCF+P can be blocked. As for other bad supers: Duck King's P-power and Cheng's S-power in Real Bout Fatal Fury 2.
I spent a lot of time with Remy at the arcade. Charge partitioning, have up to 6 ex booms on screen at once. His SA3 is good if you know the person you're playing against. I'd cancel his QCB+K into SA3 and catch most counters on a reliable basis. Honestly, was just for showing off. SA1 & 2 were so much better.
Justin did a video not too long ago using Chun's SA 3 and it was surprisingly effective, mostly because I'm sure nobody is at all used to it. Also, it's Justin. My girl Makoto's worst Super fills me with physical pain.
Ultra Fight Da Kyanta 2 made a fun parody of Q's super with Robo Kazuma Where while flashing all your specials are EX, and you explode on command, no grab needed
Oro's sa1 3xp super is invincible thoughout the jump in grab. It really punishes people for pressing any button. Alex SA1 also has the issue of being able to jump out on startup. I wrote it off for years. The trick is with these command grab supers is to just pile on the mental stack to get them to press a button. If the person is at neutral during startup you're probably using the super wrong.
Qs super is really meant for when they get stunned or after knockdown. Or you can command throw them into super into rush punch into super. Long bar supers are like that because they do the most damage, so being able to combo after ex move would make it even better so to even it out a bit they did that.
Chun Li’s 3rd super it’s a great super. I’ve used it so nicely as an anti air and recovery after falling down. Even won some good tournaments a few years back with it. Only because I love the animation I’ve taught myself to play with it, and once you’ve got it, it’s just crazy good.
This is one of the things I never liked about SF 3, the selectable supers unlike the Alpha series where pretty much all characters have at least 2 to counter specific scenarios, Zangief got an anti-Air grab that works every 2 blue moons, Blanka has 2 of the worst so is a pick your poison situation, Ryu got a Tatsumaki that only appears in the VS series and no other games, I think you could make a video about them later, probably my favorite is E. Honda command grab.
Ibuki's Yoroi Doushi (SA 2) is her worst super, but I can tell that it's fun to play. Has only j.HP to combo into the grab version, and the Chi Blast version isn't worthy the whole bar. The idea is to try a mixup and then make the super raw.
Remy's counter super is also most reliable if an opponent telegraphs with a jump attack. Note that if you counter a jump attack, 1/2 the hits from remy's super will miss.
Another problem with Remy's SA3: It's punishable on hit if you counter the opponent while they're airborne, as it doesn't juggle properly and falls out. This means the one somewhat reasonable time to use it, on wakeup, is completely countered by the opponent using meaty jumping overheads whenever you have meter. They'll take a pitiful amount of damage and then get a full punish.
With Oro Sa1 you can get 3 done every once in a blue moon. The first one should be stmp into jump super and then the second 2 are on the ground ofcourse.
Q's SA 3 would have been a little better maybe if they'd made it while he was in that super state he could use EX moves without it draining the super bar anymore than it was already draining so maybe you could use EX moves to get in and use the explosion throw more but even then it's not that useful. It would make it a little more useful though.
Justin Wong has a video where he couldn't beat someone until he switched super art with Chun Li to that SA3. I think he posted the video about a month ago. Might be worth looking up.
Q SAIII - failure to mention the command grab version. Q has strong corner carry ability and can apply pressure with it. The hit version of SAIII does some nice chip as well but parryable. It also does a lot of stun. Oro - failure to mention it has an air version. The air version can be comboed into from his stand strong (1 hit). Worst super? Rikuo / Aulbath Direct Scissors in Darkstalkers 3.
I think one of the biggest problems for counter supers in SF is the fact that, usually, you get only 1 super. Comparing Blue Nocturne with Jin's Kokyujin Yukikaze from BlazBlue for example, you can realistically see that hit once in a while, because you are not giving up any of your other two Distortion Drives. If Remy wants to get the read with Blue Nocturne, well, you are fucked, because now you have no decent combo finisher.
I love Kishin Riki with Oro. I know it's his worst SA but the other ones are too demanding execution wise for me. SA1 also has some fun uses as others have commented below, including comboed off of low heavy or you can even juggle into the air version. I actually play Slam Dance though. I know it's garbage but I love it. It's worth mentioning not only can you jump put of it but it also has ABYSMAL range for a throw.
Mr. Jmcrofts, let's get a 30+ minute video on the worst supers in MvC2 yeah? xD We all know there are plenty LOL and plenty of casts to choose from haha.
I watched a video on Justin Wongs channel not too long ago where he was rocking Chun's super art 3. It was against a dude that was really good at parrying Chun's SA 2. And he made it look very usable. But it is Justin fking Wong. Also, if I am not mistaken the opponent was a Hugo player and maybe his larger body helped SA3 connect more easily? idk.
Question, can Remy's counter super be used to counter other character's supers? I don't think that being able to do so would justify its use, but I do think that would give it some utility.
Also doesn't work on projectiles and is punishable on hit vs airborne moves. Bafael has a thorough takedown of blue nocturne on his channel and even points out that since his flash kick super is invincible, it can pretty much do everything blue nocturne does anyway (plus way more, obviously)
Also worth noting that Total Destruction (i.e. Q Install) gives you access to an unblockable command grab too (which hits harder.) Still though, yeah, the others are better.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I would enjoy a "worst supers" showcase in any game, because this is really fun.
And worst Ultras
i second that motion.
Dan, always.
Clearly that's the best super in the series, if the opponents don't let him finish the whole thing, even if they win the game they lose the people.
Umvc3 fans might have a lot to say about bad supers.
With so many Supers, some were bound to be stinkers. That aside, being able to select different supers, and all the things that went along with them, has always been one of my favorite design choices in Third Strike.
Indeed. For some characters, it’s like you get 3 different characters from the super select. Like Hugo, 3 very different supers with very different uses, setups, and meter management.
Some kind of meter selection mechanic would be nice. Since you have some characters like ibuki that have 3 good supers but they'll only ever pick (arguably) the worst one because it gives the best meter options.
Some have to be worse than others, sure, but the supers shown in this video could easily have been made at least usable.
@@feri7mble No argument here. Being able to jump out of a command grab because of the start-up is amazing to me. How did they ship that? How did the devs think that could be used?
I preferred alphas version, where most characters had several to use without having to pick just 1. That makes matches more unpredictable.
Nice list, Mister Crofts, but I think you underestimate my ability to make ANY super the worst super.
As someone who enjoys playing Q, grab'n'blow could have been such a cool super... Could have been like a command grab super on someone who gets high reward on getting in while they turtle... Or like a follow up after EX Dash Punch with him and the opponent taking 50% damage
If they’d have simply made it confirmable it would’ve been his best super.
Grab'n'blow is a cool super, just not in Street Fighter.
If when the bar is full he gains a explosive command grab, would be better, a grab that not freeze the screen.
I still use it for lols, love the danger line it says
Yep. Self-Destruct is the only move that does the most damage, outside of Gill's Angel of Death.. and if you can trick your opponent into a/his Command Grab. You can get self-destruct. It's honestly my favourite special of his, other than Deadly Combination.
I have to add to Remy, and i was hoping it was shown, even if you use it to stop a jump in, the super drops and leaves you even more open.
This is an important point, if it counters an air attack, the opponent gets hit 1-2, and then bounces back in prime position to block and punish the rest of it. This includes universal overhead.
Yeah, blue nocturne cannot juggle properly at all so using it as an anti-air is completely pointless.
I loved the blue nocturne reaction to shin shoryuken. Ryu doesn't care. He just keeps going with it.
@@bill1417 I think Alex's SA2 is the same way.
Garou has the best implementation of a counter super that I've seen: Freeman slowly walks forward with shadows trailing, he immediately loses the meter, and if the opponent attacks and activates the counter, THEN there is a super flash.
This is also how Cooler's counter super works in Dragon Ball FighterZ. He adopts a stance, glows blue, loses meter, and only if the super is actually activated by him being hit will the screen freeze and go into the super cinematic freeze.
@@milsharkie Same with Ultra Instinct Goku but a lot more obvious
B. Jenet has a cheeky iconic one too. Garou does it all good ❤
Terumi in Blazblue has a similar super
@@ThrowAway-gu2lwHakumen with yukikaze as well.
You forgot the to mention Oro sa1 doesn't just upgrade his command grab it replaces all his punches with the command grab
that is a big oof
I thought so, I remembered hearing something about that once and thought he'd say something about it but thank you for putting this here
And you can do this while jumping too right?
He also forgot to mention that you actually can combo into sa1
@@zhmyh6599 you can cancel crouch fierce into the ex one and juggle into the air throw but you'd rather use sa3
Who even thought that a counter should flash before countering the opponent
Fr the only heads up should be the meter draining and not something super obvious
Freeman did it right. Too bad he's still low tier =[
In fairness it can be pretty weird for a super to just not have a super freeze when you use it - I think Anji's counter super in GG Strive does this if it doesn't catch anything, and it honestly feels a bit strange. But it definitely is necessary from a gameplay perspective.
@@SSM24_ What about a super flash without a super freeze?
@@SSM24_ That's why you put the super freeze on when the counter is triggered, not during the move's startup.
Come on Jim, you should know this. Q's SA3 is the worst of the 3, but what its really for is getting 3 free taunts. In the late game, getting three taunts is hard, but once you bust SA3, people have to choose, between staying on you, or letting you take the taunts.
SA3 won't stop Yun from dive kicking you into oblivion.
@@mappybc6097 1 to
What does this even mean
@@Togutas taunting in sf3 buffs you. Q is a dmg buff
@@spartanseventyeight8673 No I mean why is it a threat to go in once he's activated. sa3 hit grab is useless and very punishable. The gameplan shouldn't change, it's just not a threat. That's what makes it so bad
As a Chun-li main I've been experimenting a bit with SA3 and have discovered that it actually does alright against dive kickers like the twins which is a matchup I usually struggle against
Match up specific stuff
With Urien I like using SA2 against Akuma for the huge amount of stun
Wouldn't Sa1 also work for that but be significantly better? You usually use that for Hugo to keep him from getting in and I imagine it would also keep out the twins.
Super fun video! So personally I think Twelve SA2 is worst than X Copy.
And for Remy blue nocturne if you do it against a jump in. It don’t even fully commit 😢
Remy sa3 is honestly a sad case of bad supers
You missed some of the other bad aspects of Blue Nocturne - for one, if he threw an air attack anyway, there's a good chance Blue Nocturne still wouldn't connect because it just doesn't work properly on non-grounded opponents. For another, every situation that you would use Blue Nocturne, his Flash Kick super is fully invincible so it works just as good if not better, plus it works for plenty of situations outside of counters.
Because Remy has a flash kick, the only situation blue nocturne is MAYBE useful is to bait an opponent to hit you by walking forward and intentionally losing charge. This is obviously risky and pretty terrible.
And the single, short bar means he can't use EX often, which is especially bad for Remy because his EX moves are some of his best features.
I’m only disappointed because I thought this was “worst supers in fighting game history” but still a great video.
Great idea for the next vid! 💪😎
Remy's blue nocturne also doesn't connect properly on airborne opponents, so even if you catch a jump in with it you get like two hits and are punishable. Also applies if the opponent uses any move that makes them considered airborne, such as the universal overhead mechanic that every character has.
I love how you always come up with good ideas and great content. Great watch bro.
What sucks about Remy's super art 3 is that even if your react to an anti air PERFECTLY the whole combo will whiff after the first hit it makes me so mad, I get punished for making a good call
I love how they implemented Anji's counter super in strive. you don't get the screen freeze unless it hits. I think if blue nocturne worked like that it'd be much better
Unfortunate how this is only about Third Strike, I read "worst super" and immediately thought of Sol's Dragon Install 2nd in +R
Costs THE entire bar
Kills your tension pulse
Has a multiple second long startup with no invincibility
Drains your health until you have One HP
And the ONLY upside is that you get permanent DI instead of temporary DI
Can you TOD with it since it's infinite?
It has one of the inputs of all time, too: 214214214214P+H. Though as Dustloop points out, that's actually kinda good because it means you'll never get it by accident.
(And somehow this doesn't even get the "most wack input for a 100% meter, zero practicality move in +R" award - that probably goes to Dizzy's IK and its absolutely fucking glorious [2]8462P+H input. Yes, it starts with a down charge, then an up input, and then there are 3 more directions after that. It's very silly.)
@@tammid8423 theoretically you can, as you can FD cancel Sol's punch with it, but it's not worth it at all. It's CMV material and nothing more.
@@SSM24_
...I want to have a polite chat with the person who thought down charge followed by forming a lightning bolt with your joystick was a good idea for an input motion.
@@SSM24_ I mean, it's four tatsu inputs. We're not talking Pretzel or Summon Suffering motions here.
I really think people make way too big a deal out of some inputs. Seriously. I can pull off a Summon Suffering basically instantly. It just takes practice. It's pulling it off in the stress of the moment that's a real pain in the ass, but even that just takes experience.
You forgot to mention you can combo the Oro SA1 off of down HP. Still does decent damage, especially compared to the Necro example.
Oro EX SA1 has a really gimmicky corner setup: HP fireball xx EX SA1. If they jump out of the EX SA1 grab, the fireball hits and Oro gets a juggle. If they block, the EX SA1 connects. Might be possible to jab or uppercut out, not sure if Oro has invincibility on EX SA1, but every time Oro pulls this setup on me I always panic and never have the presence of mind to try it.
@@sunnyday8300 EX SA1 is invulnerable the entire time, start to finish. It's one of it's saving graces. It literally will go through everything.
While this is true, the range at which you can successfully cancel cr.hp into super and have it combo is fairly specific, and the fact that cr.hp is so good at counter-poking will lead to a lot of whiffs when confirmed off of hits on outstretched limbs.
There is a silver lining though (however thin): because cr.hp can be parried both ways, you'll have many opportunities to confirm off the opponent's parry and cancel to super as a punish on whatever they do to try to take their turn.
This especially useful against dudley players who like to jump in with parry on your cr.hp once you've established it can counter-poke many of his moves on the ground.
Still not worth it when you can just loop SA2 unblockables, but it's fun to meme sometimes
@@Fly_Ry this is correct, the c.hp has to be close and the cancel has to be immediate for the super not to whiff. It cannot be hit confirmed.
Oro"s SA1 can be comboed and used in the air.
MP knock up, SA1, jump, then grab. You'll still have some time left after the super.
Well, there's naturally a way to land Oro and Q's grab super: you activate and then kick your oponent really hard on the knee. Or just slap the controller out of their hands.
First off, love the video and your content in general.
Second, I think all of these supers are really underrated honestly besides Chun SA3.
MOST of the supers in this game are Matchup dependent, but a lot of these ones in the video have some cool utility.
Q can combo into SA3 off command grab into dash punch, cancel and then hit explosion punch in corner putting you full screen with time for a meaty HP dash punch, taunt, or you can get some cheeky resets after corner dash punch > activate > JUMP LP air reset and then get them guessing. They have to parry or block to beat the punch version but it loses to jumping, and qcf kick is a grab that can be jumped but loses to parry or block. The kick grab also does like mad damage.
Also activating after dash punch midscreen can give you space and time to get double taunt against some characters.
Makoto can do some tricky stuff with SA3 like confirm anti air Fukiage, cancel into a dash up fukiage for almost max stun, or use the long invul to get enough time to react to stuff and counter.
XCOPY is just fun, you can get some freaky combos out of it with Urien and you're not playing 12 to be optimal anyway probably, right?
Putting Oro SA1 is shady tho man! That super can blow up aegis/Yagyou Dama unblockables with the EX invul, be comboed into with cr. HP, and you CAN get 3 of them if you do chicken combo into the air version first.
It's not amazing no, but much better than you made out I think.
(I still play SA2 though!)
I'll admit Blue nocturne is pretty bad, but you can definitely get some good mind games going with it. I'd recommend watching Dagger G's video on "blue nocturne tricks of the trade" for some really cool setups and tech for it, and high level 3rd strike in general.
Despite all that, loved the video anyway and would be happy to change your opinions on these bad supers over fightcade some time ;) haha
Source: Played the game (and most of the cast with these supers!) For about 12 years now
I dont even play this type of games consistently and yet why do I keep watching your videos?!?
10/10 would watch again.
3rd strike is like peak pixel art
I disagree, I actually find it overrated instead.
@@bloody4558oooof unfortunately I looked at your subscriptions and you seem to watch genshin impact videos. I don’t really think pedophile’s opinions matter so you’re gonna have to be quiet now. Sorry!
Super I of Ryu on this game is a love/hate relationship with me because it's so easy to miss it, theres tons of ways you can whiff in consideration with other supers, I know it's not a bad super.
Another Highlight I want to make it's that Elena Super I for me is super underrated it's so useful for me.
Amazing content JM! You're rocking this 2023.
In kof98, Daimon has the same type of counter-super as Remy. The super freezes time and the opponent can just jump away. Kof98um(newer version) fixes this, Daimon's super doesn't freeze time and it can actually catch opponents.
i was once hit by blue nocturne actually. i was playing with a friend to oki him with hugo's heavy clap. the clap was already in startup when he done so i was not able to do anything
Dude you posted this as I was trying Qs weird self destruct super for the first time
You can combo into a super art three with q pre super flash. It’s a bit technical it’s possible, dosent make super art three any better but it’s possible
Q's super feels more like a lore bit due to it saying "DANGER!" while using it. Whatever backstory he has, there are other hints that he maybe either be a robot or a cyborg.
Or "POWER TO THE EARTH!"
Stun Gun Headbutt is a legitimate terror in the hands of someone willing to actually play mind games using it. It has an anti-air set up with lariat too.
Definitely do this for other games. You're a huge ambassador for such a wide range of amazing (and kuso) games in our diverse genre of choice. I'd be interested to see what you have in your bag of tricks.
I remember when I first started to learn combos in street fighter that I tried to combo with twelve and couldn't do anything. I thought all characters had cool combos you could do.
that little white blob is such a pathetic mess.
As an oro super 1 user , you forgot to mention that he can also do an air grab in SA1 , which is alot better
Yo I LOVE this, you should do this with USF4 but start with the actual supers first, before ultras!
Q's Super Art 3 is what we like to call "FUN". It's the dumbest thing, but man you get some salty people when you land the grab version of it. But in all honesty, Q's SA2 is my favorite. It's so satisfying to smash someone so hard, they bounce into the stratosphere upon impact with the earth.
You're so right about Remy's counter super, which got me thinking about counter supers in general. In Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, one of the meta characters Itachi has a counter super, which is really good. He subtly raises his arm to enter his counter state, and the game only pauses if it is activated. If it doesn't get activated, his super bar isn't spent. He also cannot be thrown while in this state, but he can of course be combo'd during the recovery of the move.
I wonder if counter supers should generally be more like Itachi's 2X rather than Remy's SA3 or Cammy's U2.
I thought about Mark of the Wolves and Freeman's counter super, where he simply WALKS FORWARD and the only indication that he's doing it is a shadow trail that's fairly hard to notice. (Well, that and the fact that he spends his super bar) The super flash and pause only happen once he's caught you.
Shout outs to Alex for not having a good super. Everyone else at least has one that's functional, none of Alex's do anything significant. SA1 can be jumped out of after the super flash, you can't fully combo into SA2 without missing some of the hits and sometimes even the last grab of the super whiffs even if you get it right, and SA3 can be seen from a mile away and the only way to set it up is from Alex's heavy flash chop and even then it comes out so slow even my grandmother could react to it.
You should do one of the these for Marvel 2, maybe a Top 10 worst supers in MvC2?
A few more notes on Blue Nocturne:
-If you can manage to hit Remy's face but avoid his knee, then Blue Nocturne won't activate since there's no trigger area on Remy's face. It's extremely rare but ironically, I think one of Remy's ground normals is at the perfect angle to do this.
-Blue Nocturne actually has a vacuum effect, but you're probably never gonna see this unless a Necro hits you from midscreen away with one of his normals.
-Rising Rage Flash pretty much does everything Blue Nocturne does but better in every single way. It's a frame 1 motion input reversal that consistently works as a reversal, and can be used as a combo ender. Blue Nocturne isn't just dysfunctional, it's redundant.
Vacuum effect that can't be seen in most situations...
remys is even worse than you gave it credit for.
air connects fall out, and also, a counter super in a game with parries and invincible supers (remys other super, for example) has absolutely no niche. any time you would use this super, and it would work, his other super works too, except his other super works better and can work in more situations.
so while these other supers are bad, they at least allow unique options for the character. this super literally just does nothing good. along with the issue of completely telegraphing its startup lol
Great video, but I have to mention that Oro's SA1 with all the buttons pressed can be comboed into with crouching heavy punch. Still not ideal but you get great damage and dont have to worry about the super being jumped out of.
There's probably some underground Remy demon that lands that super every single time 🤣🤣
Justin Wong using SA3 on Chun was one of the funniest things I’ve seen on this game
My sides were sent into orbit seeing him commit to that in a real match. Lmao
3:00 yeah but the extra space wouldn't let you do more taunts
I never really played Chun Li in SF3rd Strike and I totally forgot about that super, because nobody ever picks it lol.
What Justin Wong loves about Chun Li's SA3: currently immune to Daigo parries (only a matter of time until that changes)
Yeah no clue what the devs were thinking with the counter super. UI Goku counter super, as annoying as it is, is how you do it right. No flash, just a subtle animation.
That Q install could have been excellent if Q got a defensive or offfensive boost or heck super armour,it just does nothing and gives your 2 incredibly damaging grabs to a character who most times struggles to get in or is too busy getting comboed
Qs total destruction install is cool, think on shotos and tall bois you can get command grab in the corner ,lp dash punch, cancel to the install and as soon as it pops you can to his hit throw from the install, swaggy lil combo
I watch your videos and I’m always intrigued. Even though I’ve never ever been even close to average at street fighter. I watch these and think huh that’s cool and then remember I suck but still can’t enough of tips for third strike 😅
I hate how more than half of those can be buffed in very simple ways
Unfortunately, there were no DLC balance tweaks back then!
SF3 just looks insane good even in the age of cell shading looking anime fighters. Real classic.
2:00 okay so I don’t know shit about shit BUT would Q’s explosion super be good for letting him get his taunts that like make him bulkier or whatever?
landing his sa1 gets him 2 free taunts so that's probably better
I think a counter super would only work, if the flash and pause to indicate it was a super, was after it triggers. The animation of lifting a knee would play, they punch into it, THEN the super animation plays.
How to fix Blue nocturne: make it like Dud's Cross counter, with the super flash happening when you trigger the counter Stance lol
Oro SA1 you can combo into the air version (the b strongxchicken, on the 3rd b strong sjc into air grab. and alex stungun is invuln going up, so use as anti air
I don't even play fighting games anymore. I just enjoy the analysis. Keep on going.
The only instance of a Counter Super being done properly is Cooler from DBFZ. There’s no voice clip, super freeze, or cinematic, so it’s not as obvious. The problem with most others is if there’s a giant cinematic beforehand I know to just stop pressing buttons so I don’t get hit.
Nah KOF has plenty of counter supers done well, they just don’t have a super freeze until it gets activated. Street Fighter has always just been really really bad at counter supers
Daimon from kof does this as well
Anjis in strive is good mainly because the startup is so fast and if it ever whiffs it doesn't activate a freeze.
@@yugimumoto1 the window to parry with that super is also pretty large, it lasts a ton of time
The funny thing about Necro SA2 is that the only available combo route into it (H spin hook > SA2) is completely outclassed in damage by a universal route Necro gets off of H spin hook anyways. That route is H spin hook > back HK > EX spin hook, which does more damage and has so much corner carry that it gives Necro the corner from anywhere
Haven't watched the video but if Blue Nocturne isn't on the list I am going to use my EX dislike on you.
Something that was not mentioned about Q's SAIII is that he doesn't just have the touch explosion, he has an alternate one with 236+K which is a legit grab. It has worse recovery on whiff than the P activation but is more useful in the situation that you got someone blocking and trying to guess when you're going to push buttons. I like to push someone into a corner and use it as a tick throw for ridiculous damage.
Hey, I was a Twelve main for a while and still play them occasionally for fun. XCOPY has really niche matchup uses like against characters like Q but in general is a pretty bad super, so thank you for including that because everyone seems to think it's Twelve's best one even though it's situational at best.
It gives Twelve a 1.25x boost to both damage and defense and lets Twelve retain taunt bonuses from someone like Q but on top of the flaws you mentioned it also prevents Twelve from using the opponent's EX moves or supers, which are pretty important for most of the cast. Twelve's EX moves are also pretty important so having a long 1 stock bar doesn't help at all lol
Definitive proof that Q is, in fact, Inspector Gadget.
ranking supers on a tier list would be a fun video to watch
Oh yea. More of this please, any game you choose but love this content!
the fact that Alex isn't represented in this list of terrible 3S supers is a travesty, dude has one semi-functional super that people pick for the 2 bars of meter and the other ones are bad gimmicks.
It’s funny though
I can't believe I've never seen Oro's SA1 before, that animation is hilarious!
I'd love a similar video on the worst Ultras from sf4
Surely a series as big as Marvel vs. Capcom has some bad supers in it. Wouldn't mind seeing a spotlight on some of those!
You forgot to show Q's other alternative during super 3: QCF+K. That's an actual throw, while the one you showed with QCF+P can be blocked.
As for other bad supers: Duck King's P-power and Cheng's S-power in Real Bout Fatal Fury 2.
9:12 Twelve got obliterated holy hell i did not know that happened.
Fun fact: in SFIV you can use Makoto’s super and then put that into Ultra to deal insane damage!
I spent a lot of time with Remy at the arcade. Charge partitioning, have up to 6 ex booms on screen at once. His SA3 is good if you know the person you're playing against. I'd cancel his QCB+K into SA3 and catch most counters on a reliable basis. Honestly, was just for showing off. SA1 & 2 were so much better.
Justin did a video not too long ago using Chun's SA 3 and it was surprisingly effective, mostly because I'm sure nobody is at all used to it. Also, it's Justin.
My girl Makoto's worst Super fills me with physical pain.
Ultra Fight Da Kyanta 2 made a fun parody of Q's super with Robo Kazuma
Where while flashing all your specials are EX, and you explode on command, no grab needed
Oro's sa1 3xp super is invincible thoughout the jump in grab. It really punishes people for pressing any button. Alex SA1 also has the issue of being able to jump out on startup. I wrote it off for years. The trick is with these command grab supers is to just pile on the mental stack to get them to press a button. If the person is at neutral during startup you're probably using the super wrong.
The talk of Blue Nocturne really makes me appreciate Angel’s counter super in KOF XV doesn’t freeze the screen unless it hits
Qs super is really meant for when they get stunned or after knockdown. Or you can command throw them into super into rush punch into super. Long bar supers are like that because they do the most damage, so being able to combo after ex move would make it even better so to even it out a bit they did that.
Gotta do guilty gear, especially older ones. Even get the instant kills in there...
Your insights are really deep! Wow!
Chun Li’s 3rd super it’s a great super. I’ve used it so nicely as an anti air and recovery after falling down. Even won some good tournaments a few years back with it. Only because I love the animation I’ve taught myself to play with it, and once you’ve got it, it’s just crazy good.
Q Super 3 I believe was designed to run the clock when you have a life lead, which synergizes with Q's high base life and taunts.
This is one of the things I never liked about SF 3, the selectable supers unlike the Alpha series where pretty much all characters have at least 2 to counter specific scenarios, Zangief got an anti-Air grab that works every 2 blue moons, Blanka has 2 of the worst so is a pick your poison situation, Ryu got a Tatsumaki that only appears in the VS series and no other games, I think you could make a video about them later, probably my favorite is E. Honda command grab.
I low key love how you start your videos with "Folks!"
Ibuki's Yoroi Doushi (SA 2) is her worst super, but I can tell that it's fun to play. Has only j.HP to combo into the grab version, and the Chi Blast version isn't worthy the whole bar. The idea is to try a mixup and then make the super raw.
My bro and i play with access to all supers at once. Chun li's SA3 is super fun mix up. Doesn't change anything just thought I'd share
Remy's counter super is also most reliable if an opponent telegraphs with a jump attack. Note that if you counter a jump attack, 1/2 the hits from remy's super will miss.
And you will probably be punishable on hit as they will fall out and getup before you finish the animation
Another problem with Remy's SA3: It's punishable on hit if you counter the opponent while they're airborne, as it doesn't juggle properly and falls out.
This means the one somewhat reasonable time to use it, on wakeup, is completely countered by the opponent using meaty jumping overheads whenever you have meter. They'll take a pitiful amount of damage and then get a full punish.
With Oro Sa1 you can get 3 done every once in a blue moon. The first one should be stmp into jump super and then the second 2 are on the ground ofcourse.
Q's SA 3 would have been a little better maybe if they'd made it while he was in that super state he could use EX moves without it draining the super bar anymore than it was already draining so maybe you could use EX moves to get in and use the explosion throw more but even then it's not that useful. It would make it a little more useful though.
Justin Wong has a video where he couldn't beat someone until he switched super art with Chun Li to that SA3. I think he posted the video about a month ago. Might be worth looking up.
Q SAIII - failure to mention the command grab version. Q has strong corner carry ability and can apply pressure with it. The hit version of SAIII does some nice chip as well but parryable. It also does a lot of stun.
Oro - failure to mention it has an air version. The air version can be comboed into from his stand strong (1 hit).
Worst super? Rikuo / Aulbath Direct Scissors in Darkstalkers 3.
I think one of the biggest problems for counter supers in SF is the fact that, usually, you get only 1 super. Comparing Blue Nocturne with Jin's Kokyujin Yukikaze from BlazBlue for example, you can realistically see that hit once in a while, because you are not giving up any of your other two Distortion Drives. If Remy wants to get the read with Blue Nocturne, well, you are fucked, because now you have no decent combo finisher.
I love Kishin Riki with Oro. I know it's his worst SA but the other ones are too demanding execution wise for me. SA1 also has some fun uses as others have commented below, including comboed off of low heavy or you can even juggle into the air version.
I actually play Slam Dance though. I know it's garbage but I love it. It's worth mentioning not only can you jump put of it but it also has ABYSMAL range for a throw.
Mr. Jmcrofts, let's get a 30+ minute video on the worst supers in MvC2 yeah? xD We all know there are plenty LOL and plenty of casts to choose from haha.
I watched a video on Justin Wongs channel not too long ago where he was rocking Chun's super art 3. It was against a dude that was really good at parrying Chun's SA 2. And he made it look very usable. But it is Justin fking Wong. Also, if I am not mistaken the opponent was a Hugo player and maybe his larger body helped SA3 connect more easily? idk.
Question, can Remy's counter super be used to counter other character's supers? I don't think that being able to do so would justify its use, but I do think that would give it some utility.
Depends on the super, DP supers actually beat blue nocturne due to their invencibility frames.
Also doesn't work on projectiles and is punishable on hit vs airborne moves. Bafael has a thorough takedown of blue nocturne on his channel and even points out that since his flash kick super is invincible, it can pretty much do everything blue nocturne does anyway (plus way more, obviously)
Also worth noting that Total Destruction (i.e. Q Install) gives you access to an unblockable command grab too (which hits harder.) Still though, yeah, the others are better.
Love the content ❤