@@carlos_hb yeah, it would not have made for very good viewing to watch them slowly crawl through the tutorial. That said I wish they'd hit it up in advance of the episode.
It's because he's trying to play the game as if it's the actual sport. Where as Arin just sort of falls into his wins. And in a game where apparently nothing is off limits (like backhanding someone off the ball and murdering them in this instance lol) Dan's going to get upset.
I feel like the editors just forgot. I miss Barry, or Kevin, or Matt and Ryan. Ya know, editors who interacted with the show and had personalities and names.
i don’t know if it’s because they’ve had so many years of just being grumps that the grumpy gone to their heads but i still watch, if they went unfiltered like tmph i’d have to really think on it, little salty about tmph still
I love how consistently Dan's "Are you ready?" was followed by the AI kicking him in the back of the head. Practically a sitcom-style running gag by the end of the episode.
@@johm3002 Oh, did they? Cuz you'd think figuring it out implies proper use of charge shots, boosts and items, dodges and passes. Heck, even at least ONE win.
I thought it was goofy Wario just carries the ball in his hands, until I realized he holds it in the same way he holds defeated enemies in the original GameBoy games.
20 minutes of confusion and frustration kills comedy for me, but still they have 200k+ watchers so is rentable anyways and there is people who seems to enjoy it
@@notsure1969 Theoretically one day everything shall occur and has already occured and will occur the next day as well. Theoretically you are nothing more then a parasitic infection a bunch of atoms caught and you won't truly die but the atoms will be cured.
My favourite exchange between Danny and Arin that I've heard in a long time: Danny: "Toad just impregged us" ... Danny: "I gotta stop saying that" Arin: "No you don't!" Danny: "okay"
No matter what it always makes me happy to see Arin slowing down to make sure Dan understands the controls and how to play. That's some real sportsmanlike conduct.
I mean…even Arin does not even know how to play 😂 It’s funny to see people who don’t know how to play a game teach other people how to play said game. Ffs just spend 5 min in the tutorial PLEASE!
To be fair, tutorials can be tedious, especially when you're doing a show, and it's much more efficient if someone knows the controls and takes five seconds to tell you. Dan just wrongly assumed that Arin knew any of the controls...
Good luck, mostlikley even if they do they will not even know the controls or try them first but odds are they think the game is stupid because they don't know how to dodge or use the intuitive mechanics... But hey here's hoping.
I'm definitely of two minds of them skipping the tutorial for this. One on hand, I feel like they'd both have more fun knowing what to do. On the other, it's fun watching them discover things.
But also, it's infuriating not having them know anything about the basic game mechanics. There's a difference between discovery and obliviousness. They got the Hyper Strike and just neglected to use it like 5 times against Waluigi.
I love gg but my god arin is such cheating cheat boy lol constantly sprinting after saying "there's no sprint" I love/hate it haha It's nickelodeon KRAG MOUNTAIN with jontron all over again lol
It's not fun watching them complain about not knowing how to play when they had the opportunity to learn before. Especially since they do this all the time.
I remember playing the first Strikers way back in highschool, and it immediately replaced monopoly and Mario Party as the friendship ender game. So, I'm very stoked to see how this ends for the grumps.
“Bowser is over powered, I can’t tackle him”. If u watched the tutorial you would know you can charge the tackle to make it strong instead of a weak tap.
Toad's head from this angle confused me for a second. I was writing something down before the match started, then looked up and actually thought he was the soccer ball 6:25 Okay, thank God I'm not the only one EDIT: Also, considering the fact that beating the shit out of other players is very common in this game, technically, Toad's head is a soccer ball
Whilst I did enjoy seeing them discover how to play the game and the little secrets I defintley got too invested when they played against the CPU and would greatly appreciate if they did the tutorial before the next episode so I can see them make a great comeback and murder the other team
Remember when arin used to play the game and win without telling his opponent how to play the game? Compared to now, 5:11 look how wholesome this is Arins walking back and forth while explaining the controls to dan, and even congratulates him when he dashes into his player, like a supporting dad playing with his kid "now hit the A button to kick my ass.... Yaaaaay that's it!" Meanwhile dan is mistaking his own player as the ball 😢
I wanna see them play this again so bad. There's something that makes me lose it laughing when they react to the super strikes and just how this is definitely not soccer
I'm so happy that kiss your dad instantly caught on, I was kinda worried it would be like "take the shot", where I was one of like 5 people who think it's funny
This whole episode I thought they were versus each other (when they were playing as Magicians and Cyclones) and it wasn’t until the end that I realized they were on the same team LMAO
Arin: Ahhh...we can all go home and get steak and milk. LOL By the end I was clapping/cheering every time they scored a goal as if it were a real soccer game.
having played strikers for hours and hours on the gamecube, here's what i have learned - pass a lot, but not TOO much (and doing pass kicks is like. top tier) - literally try to super strike as often as possible (esp. if nobody's around you) - spamming items will destroy your enemies in seconds - headbutting enemies into the fence is even better (and headbutting enemies before they can catch a pass is THE BEST) im loving this game just from watching y'all, i might get it for myself and upgrade my skills 💕
33:18 Gotta love Waluigi's animations here. First he's lying down like he's ready for you to paint him like one of your French girls, and then he does that thing where he rolls back onto his hands and pushes himself up.
1:40 Yoshi isn't a man, Yoshi is female and a princess at that which is why in the old Mario Party games (Mario Party 6) the team of Princess Peach and Yoshi was called the Regal Friends and Princess Daisy and Yoshi was called Royal Ride.
I love how they're asking how to do things like the super shot which are all questions that would be answered by the tutorial that they deliberately avoided.
Let's not kid ourselves, even if they did the tutorial they would still be asking these questions and struggling with the controls, especially Dan. If anything it would've given Arin more of an advantage, the game is not as simple to play as Mario Kart initially. And the tutorial is quite boring, too.
Normally Dan is so cavalier about any game they play, but you can tell when it comes to sports games, he gets fucking serious. And it is funny to watch him seethe when he is not beating Arin's ass, since Arin doesn't give a shit about sports! XD
21:22 is hands down the best part of the video 🤣 Toad smashed the ball in with his head just to have Boom Boom block it, then Toad waltzes over and gingerly kicks it in 🤣🤣🤣
I think game grumps is most fun when they're having fun, and they're really having fun when they know how to play the game and they're not complaining about things they should've learned about
I love that this just felt like sitting on the couch with you friends all really invested and enjoying the game no matter who's holding the controllers and who's on whose team. Wholesome and heartwarming gaming time. :)
in the rare case that the grumps see this, or just for anyone else who hasn’t played yet: 19:00 that thing that happened right there, that’s called a hyperstrike. if you grab one of those glowing orbs and hold A on your opponent’s side of the field, that’s how you do those. and if it goes in, that’s 2 points.
19:32 - *(Laughs in original Super Mario Strikers for Gamecube)* 21:43 - *(Fucking dying)* 28:00 - Yyyyyoooo, that was awesome 34:16 - Yes, awesome 35:38 - Wow
LOL - reminds me of old school Ice Hockey on the NES where a common strat was to fill your team with "fatty" skaters to beat the shit out of the other team.
While I love when they're a bit clueless on these, it does sometimes annoy me that Dan easily forgets the simplest of things, especially buttons, that literally are so easily right there for him less than a second later...esp when Arin actually explains to him what to do or what button to press.
I'm with Arin simping for Peach in this, I mean look at her! Hello! They knew what they were doing, don't even front about it! Also it wouldn't be a GameGrumps episode without Dan complaining not knowing the controls by going alongside Arin's need to skip tutorials
"We don't need training."
"What are the buttons?"
Oh it's every Game Grumps episode.
To be fair, this time it wasn't Arin's fault... he tried... XD
To be honest the tutorial for this game takes forever
Blah blah blah, get used to it already.
@@carlos_hb yeah, it would not have made for very good viewing to watch them slowly crawl through the tutorial. That said I wish they'd hit it up in advance of the episode.
what’s the other wii baseball mario one super sluggers ?
Seeing Bowser beat the fuck out of everyone feels like watching a cut of Space Jam 1 where the Monstars fucking annihilate
watching Bowser give out backhands like they're tickets to the back street boys reunion tour
I would pay to see Space Jam if it had Bowser as one of the Monstars
This just makes me think of Danny as Klaus Wessel reminding us that "power always beats power"
That's a great analogy!!
That sounds AWESOME!
I love how there are stints of Dan being absolutely silent, you know his concentration is at 100% capacity. 😂
Or his frustration 🤣
Although the space is filled in with sound effects from Arin, which is nice.
He’s gathering his Jew powers
@@gargoyles9999 What the fuck dude.
@@gargoyles9999 so your 12 👍🏻
Soccer games, and sports games in general, are the ones where Dan truly becomes Grump, to Arin's Not So Grump.
Dan is the Sports Boy
@@M_Alexander He's the one who BALLS!
@@M_Alexander He is the one who sports.
It's because he's trying to play the game as if it's the actual sport. Where as Arin just sort of falls into his wins. And in a game where apparently nothing is off limits (like backhanding someone off the ball and murdering them in this instance lol) Dan's going to get upset.
It’s because Arin never teaches him the controls and is generally much faster at figuring them out.
I sort of miss the Game Grumps versus intro, but stoked for this either way! These opening lineup teams are kickass
or at least cut it mid way and say “oh wait we joined forces midway… play the regular intro!!!”
I feel like the editors just forgot. I miss Barry, or Kevin, or Matt and Ryan. Ya know, editors who interacted with the show and had personalities and names.
i don’t know if it’s because they’ve had so many years of just being grumps that the grumpy gone to their heads but i still watch, if they went unfiltered like tmph i’d have to really think on it, little salty about tmph still
@@firstnameiii7270 salty about it how?
The game grumps versus intro got mpreg'd he couldn't make it
I love how consistently Dan's "Are you ready?" was followed by the AI kicking him in the back of the head. Practically a sitcom-style running gag by the end of the episode.
He got mpreg'd
*_"Do you want to train, Dan?"_*
_"No, let's just play. We don't need to train!"_
*_"Wait, what do the buttons do?"_*
Classic Game Grumps move.
Classic frustrating Grumps
Yes and then they figure it out within a few minutes. Like always.
@@johm3002 Oh, did they? Cuz you'd think figuring it out implies proper use of charge shots, boosts and items, dodges and passes. Heck, even at least ONE win.
@@YeiPi18 chill
@@pulyps20sf I'm chill, friend. Just voicing what at least 50% of the lovelies are thinking right now
Arin: "Woah... Peach"
Dan, immediately: "Go to horny jail Arin"
I'm crying 🤣
"She's dying!"
Simp!
I thought it was goofy Wario just carries the ball in his hands, until I realized he holds it in the same way he holds defeated enemies in the original GameBoy games.
He DOES! Good eye! That's a nice bit of polish, there.
Also very in character that wario cheats.
Having just played the Warioland games, I adore this detail!
@@hopelesslydull7588 I thought that too! Wario like the most enjoyable shitty person in the world. He's awful but like the charisma man
Defeated: Ball
I was waiting for the accidental hyper shot and man that delivered in spades. The absolute freak out they had was fantastic
The fact they didn't do the tutorial, and then proceeded to get the Hyper Strike orb *so many* times only to not use it at all is infuriating.
But also hilarious
all 3 of these things are true.
22:36 i love how wario literally just grabs the ball and punts the closest player
"We don't need training."
Sigh... here we go again.
Hey alright i know this guy
It irritates me to no end when they skip the tutorial then bitch about not knowing how to play. If only there was a way to learn the controls.
"Skipping the tutorial"
Classic Arin Move 😉
20 minutes of confusion and frustration kills comedy for me, but still they have 200k+ watchers so is rentable anyways and there is people who seems to enjoy it
You can tell how quiet and flipping serious Dan gets when it comes to soccer games
"Oh look at all these characters, look at Peach!!!"
*Arin... You're as predictable as the sun's daily routine*
One day the sun will explode and devour everything in its blast radius.
@@notsure1969 Theoretically one day everything shall occur and has already occured and will occur the next day as well. Theoretically you are nothing more then a parasitic infection a bunch of atoms caught and you won't truly die but the atoms will be cured.
@@notsure1969 And Arin will still be unrelentingly thirsty.
I love how the goalies smack people away and they just ragdoll across the field
The Striker Games are so unapologetically brutal and I love it.
The strikers games are just chaos and we love them most of them this one is bad compared to the last ones but I still love it
They don't ragdoll, they have specific fall animations.
Arin: “do you wanna train?”
Dan: “nah, let’s just play!”
Arin “Skip the tutorial” Hanson is really rubbing off on Dan
My favourite exchange between Danny and Arin that I've heard in a long time:
Danny: "Toad just impregged us"
...
Danny: "I gotta stop saying that"
Arin: "No you don't!"
Danny: "okay"
"Ready?"
"Yeah let's go"
*arin delivers immediate stompage*
"Fuck yeah!"
"Uuuh alright.."
And Dan had possession, making it an absolutely beautiful beatdown
"he plays it with confidence."
Dan, wario has zero shame. It's part of his character design. He has nothing but confidence
No wario has zero confidence he's all womfidence.
6:32 Peach getting launched into the net is so funny XD
She just walks into Boom Boom twice. Lol. Also when it's just dead silent and all you can hear is Peach's cries of pain is hilarious.
the utter confusion as peach breaks all soccer rules had me dying
No matter what it always makes me happy to see Arin slowing down to make sure Dan understands the controls and how to play. That's some real sportsmanlike conduct.
I mean…even Arin does not even know how to play 😂
It’s funny to see people who don’t know how to play a game teach other people how to play said game.
Ffs just spend 5 min in the tutorial PLEASE!
Arin: You wanna train?
Dan: Nah let's just play
Well can't blame Arin for this one if things go to shit XD
"How do we play this Arin?"
-Dan after telling Arin to skip the tutorial
I guess it's true what they say, married couples do become more alike
To be fair, tutorials can be tedious, especially when you're doing a show, and it's much more efficient if someone knows the controls and takes five seconds to tell you.
Dan just wrongly assumed that Arin knew any of the controls...
@@gasolinejoy I mean I get it that makes sense but in this example of the episode was going to be so long anyways might as well know how to play.
...and then Dan said "No, let's just play!" and I knew it was gonna be a good episode
I imagine you telling your future kids or grandkids a story about every single episode of Game Grumps like this.
"Shall we play the tutorial?"
"Nah, let's just play."
Literally 3 minutes later
"Okay how do we play?"
"Kick the ball."
I love this show.
I love that peach gets knocked back twice at around 6:31
I really hope they play this again. It was a lot of fun watching it. I felt like I was watching a actual sports match
i agree and i dont even like sports lmao
they both get SUPER into sports games and its really fun
Ice Hockey NES is absolute cream of the Grump crop
Good luck, mostlikley even if they do they will not even know the controls or try them first but odds are they think the game is stupid because they don't know how to dodge or use the intuitive mechanics... But hey here's hoping.
I'm so glad they got to experience DK's victory dance.
when Arin picked his team I immediately got that a visual of Peach sitting on a couch with the rest standing behind her.
I'm definitely of two minds of them skipping the tutorial for this.
One on hand, I feel like they'd both have more fun knowing what to do.
On the other, it's fun watching them discover things.
But also, it's infuriating not having them know anything about the basic game mechanics. There's a difference between discovery and obliviousness. They got the Hyper Strike and just neglected to use it like 5 times against Waluigi.
I love gg but my god arin is such cheating cheat boy lol constantly sprinting after saying "there's no sprint" I love/hate it haha
It's nickelodeon KRAG MOUNTAIN with jontron all over again lol
It's not fun watching them complain about not knowing how to play when they had the opportunity to learn before. Especially since they do this all the time.
Arin: "you just need one power guy in your team." Also Arin not even a minute later: *chooses Bowser AND DK.*
"Don't Be That Guy"
Like Every Sports Replay.
I remember playing the first Strikers way back in highschool, and it immediately replaced monopoly and Mario Party as the friendship ender game. So, I'm very stoked to see how this ends for the grumps.
This isn't as good as that one
@@pie7591 it's better
@@orlandogarcia7084 nah the original was more fun
Strikers Charged is way better then both.
I love how at 6:30 Peach gets whacked back into the goal twice.
Gotta love all the:
"Ready?... Oh Fuck!"
When they try to pass the ball to each other.
Ha
We both like cute blue Pokémon
“Bowser is over powered, I can’t tackle him”. If u watched the tutorial you would know you can charge the tackle to make it strong instead of a weak tap.
In that same match, arin accidentally charged tackle twice and didn't realize
Same with Dan asking how to run then immediately the character he’s controlling sprints.
Ah, love Strikers, where you strike the other team more than the ball
Toad's head from this angle confused me for a second. I was writing something down before the match started, then looked up and actually thought he was the soccer ball
6:25 Okay, thank God I'm not the only one
EDIT: Also, considering the fact that beating the shit out of other players is very common in this game, technically, Toad's head is a soccer ball
33:25 DK just straight yeeted Toad over his shoulder 💀
I love the animations in this game, Wario's facial expressions and DK's dance are so good.
Whilst I did enjoy seeing them discover how to play the game and the little secrets I defintley got too invested when they played against the CPU and would greatly appreciate if they did the tutorial before the next episode so I can see them make a great comeback and murder the other team
That flip Peach does is something else, man.
My favourite part was when Dan said, “I thought Toad was the ball!”😂
"Let's skip the tutorial" and "what are the buttons?" go together like "Game" and "Grumps"
9:06 "You're gonna pick all Bowsers?" "You better believe it" Oops, all Big Zams 🤖🤖🤖🤖
I love how hard the music is. You would expect some happy Nintendo music, but no. They went hard with it.
Remember when arin used to play the game and win without telling his opponent how to play the game?
Compared to now, 5:11 look how wholesome this is
Arins walking back and forth while explaining the controls to dan, and even congratulates him when he dashes into his player, like a supporting dad playing with his kid "now hit the A button to kick my ass.... Yaaaaay that's it!"
Meanwhile dan is mistaking his own player as the ball 😢
I wanna see them play this again so bad. There's something that makes me lose it laughing when they react to the super strikes and just how this is definitely not soccer
I love how every time Dan asked Arin, "are you ready?" He instantly gets bodied for waiting for a response.
"There is no run button"
Run button: "guess I'll die"
Oh, I really hope they play this game again! I love it! They should also have guests over.
The glowing ball gives you the special shot that you charge up to get 2 points :)
Bowser just straight up punching the shit out of everyone is so fucking funny, I'm not much of a soccer player but I don't think that's allowed
Well that's kind of the point of Mario Strikers.
This was fantastic! I'd love another episode or two!
Hopefully Arnold wins, so I can kiss his dad in celebration.
And if he loses I'll kiss his dad in support
"You kiss your dad on the mouth?"
I'm so happy that kiss your dad instantly caught on, I was kinda worried it would be like "take the shot", where I was one of like 5 people who think it's funny
Yay!! I've secretly had this on my Grumps wishlist for a long time!
@scrambling blambles basically lmao
I love when Bowser beats down Toad and he just goes fucking limp
I would love to watch this as a series where they try to win all the cups
This whole episode I thought they were versus each other (when they were playing as Magicians and Cyclones) and it wasn’t until the end that I realized they were on the same team LMAO
At least Bowser plays with integrity, Wario just picks up the ball and runs with it
More of this, felt like I was watching on a sunny afternoon in 2017. I love watching them just f around and have a good time
20 minutes into Gameplay: "Oh hey! We can press X to use items!"
Arin: Ahhh...we can all go home and get steak and milk.
LOL
By the end I was clapping/cheering every time they scored a goal as if it were a real soccer game.
I gotta say that Wario’s possibly my favorite Nintendo character.
He’s my main in every mario game with him in it lol. The mario parties, mario kart, etc 😂
The only character with an actual personality
having played strikers for hours and hours on the gamecube, here's what i have learned
- pass a lot, but not TOO much (and doing pass kicks is like. top tier)
- literally try to super strike as often as possible (esp. if nobody's around you)
- spamming items will destroy your enemies in seconds
- headbutting enemies into the fence is even better (and headbutting enemies before they can catch a pass is THE BEST)
im loving this game just from watching y'all, i might get it for myself and upgrade my skills 💕
Skipping the tutorial is a GameGrumps tradition
33:18 Gotta love Waluigi's animations here. First he's lying down like he's ready for you to paint him like one of your French girls, and then he does that thing where he rolls back onto his hands and pushes himself up.
Watching grumps get murdered by AI's is my favorite thing to watch
"I think I'll go with Big Za- I mean Bowser"
Arin offering to do the tutorial???
Dan refusing to do the tutorial???
What the fuck is happening?!?!
1:40 Yoshi isn't a man, Yoshi is female and a princess at that which is why in the old Mario Party games (Mario Party 6) the team of Princess Peach and Yoshi was called the Regal Friends and Princess Daisy and Yoshi was called Royal Ride.
I love that Rosalina just ominously floats like a JoJo villain
Yet ironically, had the least impact in all the matches.
"he's going nuts, man!"
Arin......he's going bananas or he's going ape were both RIGHT THERE
I love how they're asking how to do things like the super shot which are all questions that would be answered by the tutorial that they deliberately avoided.
Ngl this episode was mad frustrating
Let's not kid ourselves, even if they did the tutorial they would still be asking these questions and struggling with the controls, especially Dan. If anything it would've given Arin more of an advantage, the game is not as simple to play as Mario Kart initially. And the tutorial is quite boring, too.
Normally Dan is so cavalier about any game they play, but you can tell when it comes to sports games, he gets fucking serious. And it is funny to watch him seethe when he is not beating Arin's ass, since Arin doesn't give a shit about sports! XD
I'm feeling gooood on a Friday
21:22 is hands down the best part of the video 🤣 Toad smashed the ball in with his head just to have Boom Boom block it, then Toad waltzes over and gingerly kicks it in 🤣🤣🤣
I just bought the game and my dumb*ss bought a full speed build for Waluigi and now the game is virtually unplayable because he's way too fast!
i will never not laugh at toad flying across the field and face planting
I think game grumps is most fun when they're having fun, and they're really having fun when they know how to play the game and they're not complaining about things they should've learned about
I love that this just felt like sitting on the couch with you friends all really invested and enjoying the game no matter who's holding the controllers and who's on whose team. Wholesome and heartwarming gaming time. :)
Hey, hope everyone has a great day and enjoys their daily Grumps!
in the rare case that the grumps see this, or just for anyone else who hasn’t played yet:
19:00 that thing that happened right there, that’s called a hyperstrike.
if you grab one of those glowing orbs and hold A on your opponent’s side of the field, that’s how you do those. and if it goes in, that’s 2 points.
I'd like to see them play this for NOT THE FIRST TIME, like hopefully they have more fun off camera and return as better players, but I doubt it
19:32 - *(Laughs in original Super Mario Strikers for Gamecube)*
21:43 - *(Fucking dying)*
28:00 - Yyyyyoooo, that was awesome
34:16 - Yes, awesome
35:38 - Wow
The “IM ELECTRIC” to “how do you do the special shot” pipeline
@17:15 “The power of flight. That uh, that DOING ANYTHING FOR YA.” SO close to a Tenacious D reference. 😩
Arin confidently giving bad information is a certified classic
It wouldn’t be a GG episode without it
LOL - reminds me of old school Ice Hockey on the NES where a common strat was to fill your team with "fatty" skaters to beat the shit out of the other team.
Okay but Dan saying "Go to Horny Jail Arin" made me laugh because I was drooling over Peach too during that cart wheel bit😂😂
Weirdo
Got the original Strikers again last year to show my friends how good it was. Glad to see Nintendo appreciates it enough for more.
Me, 35 minutes in: At some point, they'll acknowledge that their team occasionally glows.
Me, at the end: Welp.
They're so oblivious, it's insane hahaha
34:31 missed chance to say he's going bananas
While I love when they're a bit clueless on these, it does sometimes annoy me that Dan easily forgets the simplest of things, especially buttons, that literally are so easily right there for him less than a second later...esp when Arin actually explains to him what to do or what button to press.
Dan isn't a gamer. He used to be. But not anymore.
@@ChronikTheory Oh believe me, I know. He still is, but it's well known it always was mostly older games, NES and such era.
I enjoyed how many times Dan had the ball and asked "ready?" but then he didn't pass.
I'm with Arin simping for Peach in this, I mean look at her! Hello! They knew what they were doing, don't even front about it! Also it wouldn't be a GameGrumps episode without Dan complaining not knowing the controls by going alongside Arin's need to skip tutorials
It's Dan's fault this time XD Arin did ask if he wanted to for once
@@nerdycurls6253 Lmao true XD but we all know even if Dan said yes Arin would have skipped through the tutorial anyway xD
stop using that word. it doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
"Hey, you had good possession"
Arin "Pep Guardiola" Hanson
As an often player of this game. Whenever Arin said "There is no sprint" I felt highly compelled to tear my phone in half
11:14 I'm sorry! *Pocky & Rocky Reshrined* anyone???