TURBO LS COMBOS-WHAT WORKS (TRICK vs TRIED & TRUE)
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- FULL RESULTS!! LOW-BUCK, JUNKYARD TURBO LS, do you try Trick or Tried & True? Lots go searching for that ultimate, killer combo, but the hot ticket is to keep it simple! All it takes to make big-boosted, turbo LS power is the right cam, springs and turbo boost! We show you what happens when you get it right, AND when you get it wrong. Two combos, MORE BOOST, plus NA results.
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I love this. No brand loyalty, no sponsors being stroked, just hard numbers.
But we all know he is an LS junkie! 😉😂🤣😃😉
Its great to see all the different engines but i gotta say bang fir the buck has to to the LS/Vortec platform!
And giving us daily videos of late definetly shoes Richard gives us the most bang FOR our bucks!.
Ive been waiting for this for years! What a great channel!
Criminally underrated channel. Needs to be at least 500k+ subs
richard, the fucking treehouse is my favorite
Best edition yet! 4.8L don't BS me test, ironically shooting down all the stuff that bs's everyone! Numbers are numbers especially when the internet has its way with them, but this is proof and these are facts.
25 Years ago (before the internet)
An engineer by the name of Red Armstrong preached the same sermon to the Turbo Buick crowd...and I listened.
I followed his recipe, and bought his upgrade parts.
Great advice !!!
That’s pretty cool.
I have a 86” and a 87” Grand National and a regular 86” Buick Regal that I swapped out the old run down 307 ci V8 Oldsmobile engine to a new 632ci BBC N/A that makes upwards of 920HP.
flyonbyya dude 25 years ago was 95. Hardy before the internet lol. I think you lost some time somewhere....
@@Tariq_F._Raheem86 in 95 the internet was in it's infancy, it existed but most didn't have access and it didn't have much on it of use.
Jay Dunbar I guess that may be true where you’re from. Idk
Tariq Raheem
Why respond with some absolutist bullshit???
Of course the internet existed...I concede!
i have ben reading your articles for years now your on youtube to those of you who dont know this guy you should listen this guy is the real deal i was just reading an article in hot rod you did about bbc ovel vs square port heads great to see you here
thnx-lots of stuff to post
Sloppy stage 2 cam with that s475 and a tbss intake would be pretty cool also
You brought a ton of knowledge and information to the RUclips community keep doing what you do best! 👍🏻
Bring the hands back again! We all miss it!
they aren't going anywhere
Na “trick” combo. I love the use of the word trick lol. Reminds me of so many old school ppl I know. Hell I use it lol
its like a "built" bottom end
Another tremendous video full of great info! Best channel on RUclips!
Richard is the dyno myth buster awesome stuff
Moar, turbo
Could have sworn i was listening to Happel “get a cheap 4.8, do nothing to it, 78/75 or S475, make power” lmao
he's been there a few times-and its still right!
If you max out a 1k hp turbo, will adding an identical 1k hp turbo give more power or will the combo only stay 1k ? 🤷🏾♂️
The “KISS” principle!
Keep It Simple Stupid!
Definitely the best way to go!
Thank you for this. Lots of "Chads" out there think some random parts combo means making more power, but they can't calculate their CR or tell you what their cam specs mean.
Very interesting. I would love to see a similar test done on a different engine platform, Or even a roots blower instead of a turbo. Mismatched parts is easily the most common cause of disappointing engine builds.
Very true It really grinds my gears when some body wants to do a cam swap and they say I want the nastiest sounding cam I can get or the bring me a cam big donkey dick cam for a 4.8 or 5.3 and I always tellem your not gonna like it and actually be slower until it gets past 6000rpm and then trying to tellem that they have to have a tourqe converter it kills me but I get paid and they get a car or truck that was 8 times out 10 faster stock and alot of the time a week or to later come back and say you where right it what's the cheapest way to make it work or they end up selling the car or truck that's how I got my 2002 single cab swb gmc 1500 and my 1999 z28 so at the same time you gotta love idiots lol
Congratulations on 20 k Subscribers Richard. Thanks for all the Great Videos. 👍👍👍
Excellent video! That "trick" one wasn't even close to peaking at 7k rpm ha
This is a great site where you actually learn stuff!
And if your sometimes remarked upon energetic body language is you, go for it!
Love it, real world data... no BS. Keep up the great work!!!!
I really liked this comparison
Good on you Richard ,thx again. Just finished a stock ls2 with a st2 cam and a turbo on it, created a great car to drive on the street , oh and not opening up the engine took me a lot less time to finish the project
It really comes down to the application I talked to you on FB about my old 4.8 setup it was a 2011 4.8 sbe I had decked PRC CNC'ed 799's LJMS cam and BTR springs trunion upgrade ls7 lifters good pushrods a summit brand 102mm fabricated intake and TB with Bosch 210s on ignite e90 in a 3300 pound 99 z28 with a Huron speed single t6 turbo kit with a really nice water to air intercooler I started with a s475 t6 1.32 exhaust basically throwing the beans at it and not picking up power so I threw nitrous on it a single fogger nozzle in the charge pipe and ended up goin 5.60's in the 1/8 a good deal came up on a billet wheel s480 same 1.32 exhaust side I also went to a 5" hood exit to a 4" bumper exit Exhaust and made a converter change and out of the box was almost running what the s475 was running with spray (the converter did help but it was mostly turbo I got curious about methanol injection so I put my nitrous fuel solenoid back on and added another fogger nozzle in the charge pipe and ramped the methanol in similar to how I did with the nitrous on my Holley hp setup and went 5.63 first pass out with the methanol it ended up goin a pb of 5.53 @ 124mph crossing the line at 7886 rpm it was a mean 4.8 but got stupid and trying to go faster I put the spray back on it first pass killed it before the 330 but if you was to run that setup on the street it wouldn't be all that fun until 5000-7800 rpm and it would probably be a good idea to keep the nitrous especially if it's in a heavier car lol but I love 4.8s il take one over a 5.3 all day
I want the karate chops back Richard, it's not the same
Can you do some turbo tests with a stock alloy 5.7 LS preferably with twin china T3/T4's, Crow turbo cam and springs. Interested coz I've installed the Alloy LS and I'm in the fab stage of every thing else.
Would be good for extra info to size stuff e.g. converter, injectors, etc.
Keep the tests and comparisons coming !
You sir made me feel better about my build.
More compression equals more torque and helps that turbo spool faster (especially when sized correctly).
Keep them coming, I’d like to see a small charger comparison on 6.0/6.2 ,
Currently working on a lq9 with single 66mm on pump gas no intercooler for a rock bouncer. I don’t live at 6krpm and want my buggy ti lite down low
Another awesome test, thanks Richard!
Great comparison.
I like the video’s Richard on the 4.8 , 5.3’s. I’m still waiting on the LQ4 torque video’s
Listen to someone on the internet?
Your on the internet!
Just kidding. Love your stuff!
Great video. Love the 4.8 stuff a real poor man's combo. Other then that turbo. Lol. Your a great teacher and keep those videos coming
Simplicity and boost, that’s life.
Thanks Richard for your videos
I'd love to see a video addressing turbolag. I've done some of my own analysis on cars I deal with, and I see it as ! mostly a perception related to the if torque increase that boost produces.
Love these videos. Thanks Richard
Seems safe to say that the cam and proper turbo are the keys here. However I think it would be telling to see what the 317 heads would do with the truck intake, btr cam and s475, those heads should allow more octane tolerance on the street, allow more timing to be used at the same boost levels on optimized race tunes with whatever fuel is chosen, or allow more boost at same timing and afr's.
Great video really liking these no nonsense data based videos.
the 317 makes about 25-30 hp less than the 706 with everything equal-I 've run that test numerous times. It would be interesting to see which combo worked best with an octane limitation
That is really what I was thinking, that to take advantage of the "better" heads would require a tune optimized to them. But benefits may still not be shown, especially on small bores, till max effort levels of tune. Drastically decompressing an engine really is a full race practice. At this level of boost 9-16# how are the 799&243 in comparison to 706?
I was thinking the same thing, 317 might be more pump gas friendly?
Great stuff Richard
Great video as usual RH! I read all the hot rod magazines back in the day. Like ALL of them. Especially loved MM&FF. I read every one of your articles. You and Revvin' Evan were my favorites. And LL Brule-J, lol. Freiburger and Finnigan too! Such great memories learning the ways of the horsepower junky! I've built a few cars, several engines, couple bikes. I am a driveability tech at a Chevrolet dealer in Texas. Thank you for putting this all together. So many videos coming out so quick. Amazing. I noticed you haven't put any gen 4's on the dyno (I might have missed it.) Should they be avoided? I know you have the gen 4 rods in the 4.8. Have you tested any gen 5's? Those high compression engines have some sweeeeet looking cylinder heads. Keep up the good work Sir!
I ran the a Gen 4 6.0L for the last big bang motor. They are stronger. Most of the motors I find in the yards are early Gen 3s. I also have an L83 5.3L I've run a few tests with.
@@richardholdener1727 Love it!
Great explanation, love all the information on these
Cable actuation electronic programming actuation in my mind I can see its capabilities in about 10 seconds moving that direction
You should compare the sloppy stage 2 vs the stage 2 turbo cam on either turbo
that is coming up
Get your hands out of your pockets Richard, embrace your physical characteristics. Please don't become self conscious about yourself because us winding you up about speaking like an Italian 😉😂😂😂
Brad Jenkinson yeah Richard. That is you. The man that talks with his hands. You do a great job in everything you are doing. That’s what makes you you. Keep it up channel in awesome. Still waiting on turbo cam vid. I bet it will be your most popular video you do.
the hands aren't going anywhere
@@richardholdener1727 Good to hear cobber, now can you get a Barra engine and see what horsepower it takes to break it.
Richard Holdener 👍
Great video. Thank you much
Finally someone showing what the driveway engineer has been saying for years!!
Richard,
Did you do anything like gapping the piston rings on this as well? Or was it simply just a cam and springs?
He gaps the rings about .030.
Richard i love what you do. Thanks. But can you please give turbo hot side specs in the future?
Yes, i know a the high compression had more power, but I went with 317s (because I had them and they were ported)(ss2 cam and s475) my thought was because it’s my daily and in northern Washington, Idaho, Montana e85 is hard to get I’m running 92 octane. So question given a fuel octane restriction would not the better flowing low compression but higher boost end up making more power in the end? Yes I agree the 706 heads would be more responsive (my pickup is a dog to 2500rpm)
I'm not sure if octane is the limiting factor which combo works "best", the better question is do you have fun with your combo? I'm guessing hell yes!
What s475 do you have?
If your having fun dont sweat it!
But if you want to start maxing out setup, personally I would go back to the stock heads and sell the ported heads.
On my turbo 4.8 silvy I run stock heads, jfr 212 cam, s475 t4 1.10 ar 83mm turbine wheel (7575 basically). I get away with 91 when I am in Colorado, house is at 10k elevation. I just gotta keep an eye on timing and run lower boost.
Now from my testing with ls cams and turbo 4.8/5.3s, the bigger cams just bring the power in a bit slower unless your running a tiny turbine wheel. I usually try to run "smaller" cams in the turbo 4.8/5.3 trucks we do.
I cant wait to see what Richard finds but I am guessing that's what happens
Well this was interesting. Not sure how I missed this before.
Great video:) ( please keep in mind All my research is for the 6.0) I thought the only compression difference between the 317s and the 706 was if it was an LQ9 verse LQ4 I thought the flat versus dished pistons created the difference in compression with the 317. Though if the 4.8 is a flat piston engine I can see why there would be A substantial compression difference. Thank you teaching us all. Oh I mentioned to you in one of my community posts I had a question I figured you would know / spot
Thnx, the chamber volume difference between the 706 and 317 head is over 10 cc, the heads will change compression regardless of which piston of displacement you run them on.
Richard Holdener right if I am not mistaken the 706 combustion chamber is 61.15cc as opposed to the 317 which is 70.06cc if I’m not mistaken. Please keep in mind my speciality is the 7MGTE and the 2jz. So I don’t know a lot about the LS only what I researched for my 6.0 GS build. That is why I watch you 🤘. But for example with my 6.0 if I was to go from the stock 317 heads over to the 706 I would actually increase my compression ratio aswell as decrease the size of my intake valve. In my mind as I am using the Edelbrock cross ram intake with TwinTurbo the 706 heads would be a downgrade from my stock 317 heads. I am also Porting and polishing the intake and exhaust ports and I Polished the combustion chamber. If I am mistaken please let me know. Thank you and keep making these awesome videos
Solid video.
Richard, what intake have you found to be best besides stock for the 4.8 ly2 lr4?
If there is any.
It’s like less is more!
for what rpm?
Ok so I've been thinking and you know what would be a really interesting comparison? A bunch of engines of various types and setups and the volume of air they consume. I'm talking na, turbo, procharged, big block Chevy, ls, hemi, whatever Ford stuff and compare the volume of air they are consuming at various power levels and how they relate. How much air does a crazy na big block Chevy or hemi use at say 1000 hp compared to say a turbo or supercharged ls or 2jz at the same power? And fuel too. Does it come down to a similar volume of air flowed with the proper amount of fuel equal a general same amount of horsepower?
it will always be about the fuel and a tuning devise. Detonation happens on pump 93 somewhere around 13/17 Lbs boost,,some variables with compression and timing. I have found the majority want a "set it and forget it" program. Many, many tuning devises out there. Self learning programs are easy ,none being very cheap. E85 is a good choice but not without a very serious fule system. I prefer 93 pump and and extra nozzle spraying staight methanol with a progressive ramp. Also,,,don't forget these Hp # are at the Flexplate and not wheel HP ,,parasitic robs 20% ,orso., Somewhere around 120hP in the 6-800 range test. Then there's the most critical component of all on a turbo car,,= the Converter. Anything other than a full on race spect piece has major slip %.
Just the way my brain works
Great video. Keep them coming. Love the nitrous stuff the most
You sir are a boss just straight up facts
If all things are the same except 706 vs 317 heads, I wonder how they compare with boost when the limiting factor is 91 oct.
The 706 makes more power NA than the 317 because of the compression bump, but that means the 317 should be able to take more boost with 91 oct.
That is a different test but would be cool if I had reliable knock detection
Richard Holdener
It’s something I’m curious about because it represents what a lot of people are doing on the street that don’t have access to e85. If I had to guess, the power would be close, just the 706 making it with less boost.
Really like your channel. You give hard numbers on using the affordable parts the Driveway Engineer uses.
There's nothing wrong with that LSA cam if you size the turbo right. Its just more street friendly.
the size of the turbo has no effect on what the cam does-the stock LS9 cam loses power down low compared to stock LM7 and other stock cams, as well as good after market grinds
Would have loved to see the s480 at 16psi
Nice video
Good video 👍
Would you ever do a blow through carb vs EFI test ??
I've run lots of blow-through carb stuff
Richard Holdener
Oh I’ll have to look in to the archives a little more
Thanks for your time keep the videos coming 👍✌️
Can't wait for the 454 big bang!!!! I'ma BBC guy we are waiting... Lsx/Ltx gets kinda "old" at times 😁😁
Erenzo Scroggins yep. BBB guy here. Cubic inches, and LOW DOWN TORQUE.
@@jonellwanger7258 same here I had a 464 Buick built for my 77s/r regal... I just the parts are too high.... I kinda wanna do a 350 Buick build because the blocks can take 1000hp+ just like an LS for it but i can't find one in my area yet,, so if I don't it's gonna be aluminum 6.0 with single turbo for sure with two months
Erenzo Scroggins nice! Got a 464 now, and I get exactly what your saying... I’m stuck though... everybody does ls, And I like carbed engines
Please do the L83 and even LV4 (baby Stage II Buick). they're starting to appear in junkyards fairly cheap.
I would like to see some 302 , 351w turbo combos.
Can you do a video of something that we never get to see like a old school Mopar engine like a 440 and see how much boost or power you can make before it blows you know something we never see an old school Mopar and do you recommend getting your engine electronically balanced or you think that's not always necessary when you going over a thousand horsepower
factory balance is fine unless you change something
I too would like to see some mopar big block action. Mainly because I'm going to turbo a sbe 440 and see if itll last in the 600 hp mark for a while and do some track tests at around 12-14 psi
How about that 480 on the better motor? The higher compression and proper cam should help that big girl light off of my thinking is correct?
the S480 is good for over 1000 hp-if you want that power level
Hi there, Richard. I really enjoy your videos. Exceptionally informative. For many years. Everybody was stealth about information. Great to see. Love the different angles you throw at things. Have you done anything similar to a 5.3? , 4.8 and 6.0 all with turbo cams and a turbo to see exactly the difference in performance?
Dammit Richard, NOW whos gonna buy my 2 sets of 317s!?!
Richard I am hooked on your videos now to my question I have seen your video on boost on a SBC with a roots blower. Have you ever done a test with the cx raceing SBC turbo kit blow through on a holley super sniper 4150 I am thinking of building this set up any advice woud be great
I have not tested that sbc turbo kit-but it everything fits and the turbo is sized for the power level. Should work fine as a blow through
have you ever tested any of the sniper efi stuff?
I would like to ask if you could post the turbo compressor, turbine specs, and a/r ratios of turbos when you use them.
Great video! Would love to see a 5.3/799 head, with BTR stg2 or 3 and VSR80 billet at high boost 15-28 psi
Me as well
I’d like to see more tests with that “tricked out” Holley intake. I picked one up cheap at a swap meet and there‘s not as much data available as with the other Holley intakes.
Love to see that s480 on the 4.8 with m5
When you gone do the Direct fogger nitrous 5.3
I listen to some guy on the internet but that guy is you haha
big mistake
I understand it's somewhat niche, but I would love to see any Honda J series stuff you might have.
I have a friend doing a J swap in an NSX-I'll do some video with it
@@richardholdener1727
That would be awesome!
Thanks Richard.
Yo Rich.......more Hemi tests please.....and can you do a grenade style build on a 5.7 and 6.4 combo? Gapped rings and boost til it blows?
i did a big bang on a 5.7L-it did over 1000 hp
I love this video. So when u say add another turbo, is that a compound system or twins?
Also I have the 5.7 motor
What size turbine housing is on the S475? Or atleast what’s the optimal size for this truck style setup?
Great video
Man, that trick combo was still climbing at 7,000 rpm. Would have loved to see the power it made at 8,000+ (especially with an appropriate cam and higher bost to take advantage of the lower compression). The other combo is definately better though.
But but but that intake is shinny, and that cam was only $50 lol. I hope you can read the sarcasm in this.
It's so Shinnnnny!
Hey Richard I have two holset hx35’s Laying around do you think they’ll do fine on a twin 4.8? Also I have an HX 55 And Two Garrett GT 37’s they were all donated But my dad is most likely going to use the 55 on a 6.0! Just kind of want your overall opinion on those please and thank you
sorry-I don't have a lot of experience with the HX35s-I can look them up to see if a map is available
It would be so helpful if you could! me and my father can’t find too much on them or enough to know if twins will work for a 4.8
But like I said they were all donated to me so so I kind of look at it as free horse power! And would like to utilize them the best way possible
I am really getting into your videos more and more. Time to hit that subscribe button. If you were going to build a turbo LS2 making around the 1000hp mark, what would your ultimate combo look like?
Nice combo Rich, and the ring gap is likely good for how much power?
all that the S475 can provide
I’m just now getting into the LS stuff, I have a ton to learn which is why I’m here. Where does an average Joe go to get a tune to make the cam and turbo work as they should? I have feeling as well 500+ horsepower and a stock 4L60 is on borrowed time?
Do you think you will have get the same results with a 5.3 or you will change anything like turbo size. Grettings from Puerto Rico, keep up the good work!!!
same results
What do you think was the biggest killer in the power of the one motor? Head maybe.
they all played a part
Watching someone on the internet, talking about "listening to someone on the internet".... :)
Lol... he is backing it up with data tho
You must upload these before you head to bed, LOL!
I schedule them
@@richardholdener1727 ahhhhhhhh, smart man 🤘😁🤘.
A video about what happens when tuned for E85 but in reality you end up putting "E70" in out of the pump under boost application
I run pump E85-ish stuff in most of these-not close enough to the damage point to worry about any difference (not sure there is any)
I don't know how to explain this to you other than what I'm getting ready to say I want to be able to switch tanks pump gas the good yes I want to be able to turn heater blows up from inside the cab I want to be able to alter my timing from inside the cat not looking for a race car or truck just want to have control of all of that while in my seat
Ls9 cam, small turbo for quick spool light street truck? Quick boost to fill in the low end? And the ls9 cam to help with the top end? Just kicking around ideas.
Cali is expensive? A 5.7 is $1100 annual tax and gas is $7/gal. in germany.
dang Gina!!
Great videos and content. Maybe you'll be able to get your hands on gen4 6.2 ..I'd like to see what it could take 👍
I cant wait to see that video of why 2 turbos are better then one....are they? Hmmm
twice as good
I thought 706’s got higher compressior since it’s got smaller chamber volume compare to the 317!
Hey Richard did you do anything with the rings or just cam and springs? And can you do a test with same engine ,cam, ect twin turbo VS single turbo thanks your videos are awesome!!
we usually gap-we did on this one, single vs twin doesn't change much unless the two are sized dramatically different. Twins tend to have lower back pressure, but again, that's sizing.
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the quick response im loving your videos i have a LM7 with 706 heads what is the best cam to get the best output N/A?
I noticed you didn't mention any fuel upgrades. Were there any? Stock fuel injectors?
I would love to know this as well. I have a homebrew turbo AMC 258/4.0 and with stock 4.0 injectors They are at max Duty Cycle @ 7-8psi