Should've named the video: "The grim reaper hates this one easy grigri trick" ...but then maybe your weird cousin would be back and RUclips wouldn't approve 😅
Theres also a big issue with being too close to a low anchor, in a top belay situation. If you contact the anchor when the climber falls the grigri can flip upside down and it completely unloads. If your hand isnt on the break linr then the climber that just fell pulling you into the anchor is now free falling even further. Its happened to me on both ends. luckily both times, hands were on the brake line and it only ended up in a panicked 5 ft drop.
Haven't climbed yet but have been really wanting to get involved. This is such an important point to make and something I never would have thought us. Thank you for making this.
I would never rappel on a grigri type device, but never say never... Let's imagine I'm forced to, It would have surprised me for sure. I honestly did not know about that hazard, so it's a real thank you I guess. I usually never let go of the break side of the rope but here again, never say never, that's why it's called an accident after all. Great video as always.
Hmmm... Interesting. I would have never thought about that! Generally, I instruct by saying reason for the brake hand on a GriGri is just in case maybe the device fails or installing the rope was backwards, essentially turning it into an ATC.
I always assumed it was to prevent the brake side of the rope from somehow finding itself in a feeding position (upward out of the grigri), preventing the grigri from breaking properly.
@@melkorWTF Ya. Kind of strange. Reason why you always got a stopper knot in the end. If you rappell as much as I do, typically you're not looking for the end of the rope as would assume that you'd run into the knot instead.
@@trip7shark Haha I mean the guy with a red shirt that literally falls from a tree rig demonstrating the camming action on the grigri failing to initiate
This also applies when you're belaying. It's easy to deck your climber if you have most of the rope out and your climber is near the ground. If you don't have your hand on the rope and you release the brake as we've all seen here, that rope whips through the grigri due to the stretch and before you know it your climber is on the deck. Every grigri accident I've heard of is on the belay and this shows one example of what can happen.
That wouldn't happen if you were tied into the belay loop which you should be. That could only happen if you only had the rope in the grigri, and grigri attached to belay loop and the rope end wasn't. That's not the way you set it up dude that's dangerous. He's not talking about that, he's talking about rapel.
Ah OK sorry I read it again and I think you mean you have slack, but are tied on. Yes I could see that happening but I guess it shouldn't if the belay is paying attention.
I've seen a climber dropped with a GriGri1 device, and wonder if the anti-panic in the GriGri+ solves this. Does it stop you releasing the brake enough? I guess the rope stretch is there with the old style tube or bug device, but with the tube device we're always holding onto the brake line for dear life because if we let go the climber will just fall.
Start watching at 6:00. Problem is when you're setting up an anchor on top of a rock climbing route, it takes sole serious math work to tie the end knot at the exact right spot.
the rope stretches 30% under super heavy loads, as in it might hit ~20% with a heavy whipper. The real test you're doing at 8:00 is a static stretch, which will be much lower, around 10%
Long rappels, Petzl recommends using an extra, small sized, braking biner, or attaching the grigri with one that has the brake built in like the Petzl Freino (personally, I've never seen braking biners used except underground/caving)
Mabye I got some things wrong at first place or a different approach to decending on rope but I have got some questions: Why are you decending on a single rope? How do you get your rope back? And adding a Prusik-knot or something similar at the unloaded rope solves the problem you are pointing out. In my opinion this should be standard anyways. Please correct me, if missed the point.
This is such an important video maybe you should trim the start a bit or add another few tips at the end if you want to achieve a certain length. Thanks for making this.
I am a cave climber. I use a semi static rope. So it still has some stretch. Once I rappelled down the full 50 meters of my rope. Got out of the rope at the bottom close to the end knot and siiiiing: looked at the rope dangling 3 meters over my head from the middle of the cave ceiling. (I survived, because we used two ropes this day and I stopped the other guy from untying his rope.)
Yes on a Quarry vid! And where's your video on your Dad's route? Informative and entertaining content as usual. And I was one of those nubs that tried to uncoil their first rope from the floor, most frustrating 30minutes of my life. :)
I experienced this today, i never let go of the brake rope, but i did a 60m dynamic rope rappel and the rope was just trying to fly through my atc because of the elasticity. Luckily i had a third hand. Not to mention the atc felt like it was hot enough to melt my rope if i stood in one spot.
Wouldn’t it act different with MORE weight on the line (holding the cam locked tighter)? It would have been cool to see it done with a 50m rope as that’s a length I’m likely to experience.
When you pull back the lever (unlock the cam) it releases the load because the rope has the weight off of it and flows through the gri gri with no traction. The point being is that the hazard is when the cam is unlocked. Essentially the weight is off of the cam at that point. More weight would mean more rope stretch, meaning that there is a greater potential for more rope to be pulled back through the device once the rope is unweighted (cam unlocked).
Using both the Sender harness and a We Care 80m. Been a tremendous fan of both, though will say would’ve appreciated the front loops were not coated but the same low profile nylon as the back, as well as only Edelrids are properly lap coiled, but Mammut is the best of everyone else.
The most logical way to understand why you should always hold the rope is that if it was safe not holding it than manufacturers would say that. Because it is advantage. Who wants to hold it for no reason? So if thay said to hold, that means it is the only safe way to use this belay device.
That problem with that is if you don’t give people a good reason they may go one thinking they know more then the manufacturer and that the manufacturer may just be covering there ass with over safety regulations.
I dont rapell on grigris. I use em soley for lead belay, folowers get belayed by me with atc guide from the top and to rapell i use the atc aswell or the 8 if the atc is not available. Ive also never done long single rope rapells. Only one single one wich was like 12m to clean and check out a possible bolder /short route in my area. Wich i ended up first ascending on toprope since there is no cracks or anything and i didnt want to bolt virgin rock with questionable legality.
@@BetaClimbers oh yes, you did make that clear in the video, I just like the idea of a silly video using 2 gri-gri's. Also keen to see that biner video. (Already subbed with notifications, too good a channel to miss a video!)
@@magwitch right on appreciate it 🤙🏻 yeah that would be a funny thing to see lol I can imagine some one trying to set it up as a top rope solo back up if they didn’t know what they where doing. Lol 😂
Letting go while pulling on the bar is ridiculous, never seen anyone do that.. seen plenty of people briefly let go when system is statically weighted though
It’s not so much about pulling the bar and letting go. If the rope has enough plastic deformation, there can be a tremendous amount of pull back. Even with a hand on the break a large amount of rope can snap through a grigri. If you rappel while “Riding the pig” or in a rescue attempt you will feel it for yourself especially if you try to unweighted the rope abit while near the end of the line. So it’s best to ad some friction to help counter act that. I made a short video on one way to do that quickly.
Damn man! Almost 33k subscribers?!?! Congrats, you deserve it! That’s awesome to see because I’ve been here since you started (or close to it). I really appreciated how humble you are and that you kept videos up where you made a mistake… despite all the haters and keyboard warriors who’ve never climbed a day in their life; let alone tried to spread knowledge on RUclips for strangers to grow. That kind of content is rare, which is sad because it helps amateurs learn so much. Lol I’m in no way implying that you make mistakes often btw 😂. I just know that most content creators would delete their videos if they fricken pronounced a word incorrectly or something petty like that. We’re all here to learn and share experiences…. And to watch your daughter steal your props hahahaha. Keep it up brother because you’re sharing valuable knowledge that could (or potentially has) save lives. Not much rock climbing out here in Detroit, MI but I’ve always enjoyed your content because I spend a lot of my free time in tree canopy’s (often using a grigri for RADS, if I’m feeling lazy and don’t wanna rope walk). Keep it up brother and stay safe 👍.
Thanks Josh. I appreciate this. I am new and assembling my gear for top rope soloing and just got a Gri Gri and I was wondering about this exact question - do you need to keep brake hand on. So it is really helpful to know this kind of stuff before I make mistakes that were knowable before hand. - and the end knot!!! Was watching free solo again the other day and Alex had his first fall and got all busted up because he fell and no end knot so girlfriend watches the end of the rope go right through the Gri Gri - and there is another scene where he and Tommy Caldwell and like two ft from the end of their rope repelling with a Gri Gri and have a super loose single figure 8 knot at the end that I am sure wouldn't hold. But that also made me think - hey they really trust this piece of equipment so it must be rock solid.
Seeing other people do dangerous stuff and assuming that means it’s a-ok could potentially be fatal. Some experienced climbers can become complacent with certain safety protocol, I wouldn’t recommend following suit.
If your belaying and you use that much rope, you need longer ropes or shorter climbs . You should never be that close to the end. Stopper knots are for not only for safety, but it's an excuse by some climbers to pay out to much rope. Change your belay station or climb something shorter...
Who’s going to tell him the grigri isn’t designed to be a descender? It’s a belay device. Petzl has other designated descenders on the market. Use the grigri properly and there won’t be that “flaw.”
You are correct however it’s commonly used as one. Climbers are not going to haul up something like a petzl rig on their climbing adventure. Also this hazard can really be found in any device because it’s just in the nature of the rope because of that I’m thinking of remaking this video that’s a little more to the point. Appreciate the info!
The bulldozer is rated at 21kN, for those who were wondering
So many experienced climbers died because of the missing end knot... It's a shame...
Good Grigri Hack 👍
this is all new to me, but i will say, that end of the rope was on my mind, i said, self, i wonder if there should be a knot on the end, oh yes,
recently saw a video of two russian SF guys repel without one, they fell 50ft onto a ship deck
Russian Rosgvardia servicemen fast-roping accident
'Puts stick on ground'
Kid: I don't think so, mate (read in james Acaster voice)
Who the heck is James Askher?
@@elmeradams8781 a comedian, Google hin
@@elmeradams8781 *Acaster
British comedian. Pretty funny guy actually, check out his Classic Scrapes.
Should've named the video: "The grim reaper hates this one easy grigri trick"
...but then maybe your weird cousin would be back and RUclips wouldn't approve 😅
That is a great title, are you for hire lol! I’ll try that one in another episode hahaha
@@BetaClimbers haha, I guess I should start my own climbing channel then 😂
@@BetaClimbers You challenged me, this will be your downfall 😝
haha, no promises, but we will see!
As a new climber, 4-5 months, I really appreciate the content you’re putting out. I’m still learning how to make a PB&J, so thanks for the info!
This lil dude is the only RUclipsr, I would climb with. Very knowledgeable, hard working, and funny as hell.
And another life saving tip. Thank you soo much Joshua much appreciated.
Experienced or not that was a great piece of advice for all climbers! Thanks for thesecrethintthatshouldn'tbesecretatall
Good shout, definitely something I'd not thought about.
Theres also a big issue with being too close to a low anchor, in a top belay situation. If you contact the anchor when the climber falls the grigri can flip upside down and it completely unloads. If your hand isnt on the break linr then the climber that just fell pulling you into the anchor is now free falling even further. Its happened to me on both ends. luckily both times, hands were on the brake line and it only ended up in a panicked 5 ft drop.
I use an ATC but the rope handling tips changed my life 😂
Changed your life, to still alive ?😁
Nice info, and good to know AND this is why the Grigri is not a hands-free device!
Yep, definitely my favourite underground, on the ground climbing channel. Hahaha.
I just bought my first rope this week. This was very helpful in understanding some of the physics of loaded rope. Very useful. Thanks JP
Haven't climbed yet but have been really wanting to get involved. This is such an important point to make and something I never would have thought us. Thank you for making this.
Great vid👌🏻😊 Im glad I found your YT channel. Greetings from Slovakia🇸🇰 stay safe🤜🏻🤛🏻
@6:17 for the content you came here for
I would never rappel on a grigri type device, but never say never... Let's imagine I'm forced to, It would have surprised me for sure. I honestly did not know about that hazard, so it's a real thank you I guess. I usually never let go of the break side of the rope but here again, never say never, that's why it's called an accident after all.
Great video as always.
Dayum! I think in science class, we called that one "Potential energy"!!! Springy action on the dynamic ropes hey?
Wholly cow.....thanks! I never thought that out.
Thank you, man 👍 this information saves lives
As someone looking to switch from ATC to assisted breaking device all this stuff is really helpful, thanks!
Worth having both, don't sell you ATC.
Don't own a Grigri but I love your vids. Glad brands are sending you free stuff!
Thanks! I was just telling someone not to let go with the brake hand and I couldn’t explain why
Hmmm... Interesting. I would have never thought about that! Generally, I instruct by saying reason for the brake hand on a GriGri is just in case maybe the device fails or installing the rope was backwards, essentially turning it into an ATC.
I always assumed it was to prevent the brake side of the rope from somehow finding itself in a feeding position (upward out of the grigri), preventing the grigri from breaking properly.
@@melkorWTF Ya. Kind of strange. Reason why you always got a stopper knot in the end. If you rappell as much as I do, typically you're not looking for the end of the rope as would assume that you'd run into the knot instead.
Grigris can fail too, there's a video of someone doing it if you search grigri failure test
@@Jh0ac HowNotToHighline
@@trip7shark Haha I mean the guy with a red shirt that literally falls from a tree rig demonstrating the camming action on the grigri failing to initiate
This also applies when you're belaying. It's easy to deck your climber if you have most of the rope out and your climber is near the ground. If you don't have your hand on the rope and you release the brake as we've all seen here, that rope whips through the grigri due to the stretch and before you know it your climber is on the deck. Every grigri accident I've heard of is on the belay and this shows one example of what can happen.
That wouldn't happen if you were tied into the belay loop which you should be. That could only happen if you only had the rope in the grigri, and grigri attached to belay loop and the rope end wasn't. That's not the way you set it up dude that's dangerous. He's not talking about that, he's talking about rapel.
Ah OK sorry I read it again and I think you mean you have slack, but are tied on. Yes I could see that happening but I guess it shouldn't if the belay is paying attention.
I've seen a climber dropped with a GriGri1 device, and wonder if the anti-panic in the GriGri+ solves this. Does it stop you releasing the brake enough?
I guess the rope stretch is there with the old style tube or bug device, but with the tube device we're always holding onto the brake line for dear life because if we let go the climber will just fall.
Great video! mammut is pissed that you use their free gear to test out a petzl device! 😂
Man that grigri sure is dangerous lmao 🤣 definitely should use mammut products! Hahaha
@@BetaClimbers 🤣😂
Your kid giving you the water was so cute!!
That harness is dope lol. I love gear in obnoxious colors
the little one is keeping pops hydrated how cool nice they sent you some gear from Mammut
I recently bought a Grigri 2 and been playing around with it a little bit. Thanks for the input. Very good knowledge to have . Thank you
Start watching at 6:00.
Problem is when you're setting up an anchor on top of a rock climbing route, it takes sole serious math work to tie the end knot at the exact right spot.
Thnx! Beeb thinking about switching to a grigri but have never heard anyone say that. Again, thnx
This taught me something new!! Maybe saved me for future repels so thanks!!!
Solid anchor
the rope stretches 30% under super heavy loads, as in it might hit ~20% with a heavy whipper. The real test you're doing at 8:00 is a static stretch, which will be much lower, around 10%
Wow. Thank you, Josh. I had no idea that would happen. Then again, I've only been bouldering, but would like to expand.
Long rappels, Petzl recommends using an extra, small sized, braking biner, or attaching the grigri with one that has the brake built in like the Petzl Freino (personally, I've never seen braking biners used except underground/caving)
Thank you❤
Using a static rope that has very little elasticity would prevent that from happening, correct?
Basically. But remember that static rope is still not 0 stretch
@@dannyCOTW Good point
2 Grigri videos in a row!? Let's keep it going.
B👏🏻E👏🏻T👏🏻
I think I've experienced this without realizing what happened, thankfully it wasn't a scary situation...thx for enlightening me, cheers.
Mabye I got some things wrong at first place or a different approach to decending on rope but I have got some questions: Why are you decending on a single rope? How do you get your rope back? And adding a Prusik-knot or something similar at the unloaded rope solves the problem you are pointing out. In my opinion this should be standard anyways. Please correct me, if missed the point.
U descend a single rope with a tag line tied at the other end that you use to pull the rope... Or it's a fixed line.
I don’t use the gri gri but if I ever have to it nice to know this lil bit of info! Bravo beta
Thanks !!
Thank you for the, DON'T STEP ON THE ROPE. I have climbed with a few BOZOS that doesn’t think that matters.
Gonna use this to test trad gear connected to me whilst hanging on a top belay lol
This is such an important video maybe you should trim the start a bit or add another few tips at the end if you want to achieve a certain length. Thanks for making this.
I’ve actually never heard of this, good job thank you for the info!
Safety is the number one priority!
*walks backward down a ROAD*
Nice, thanks alot !!!
No helmet on the edge caterpillar tut tut you should no better than that 🤣 love from the 🏴
I am a cave climber. I use a semi static rope. So it still has some stretch.
Once I rappelled down the full 50 meters of my rope. Got out of the rope at the bottom close to the end knot and siiiiing: looked at the rope dangling 3 meters over my head from the middle of the cave ceiling.
(I survived, because we used two ropes this day and I stopped the other guy from untying his rope.)
Oh boy! 😂
Could you do a video on anchor placement for top rope or rappelling??
Always close the system. Always. Not sometimes... ALWAYS.
great stuff
Yes on a Quarry vid! And where's your video on your Dad's route? Informative and entertaining content as usual. And I was one of those nubs that tried to uncoil their first rope from the floor, most frustrating 30minutes of my life. :)
Good information. Yes, some quarry climbing pls. 👍
Great advice for this newbie but dang, it took over 8 minutes to get to the point 😂
I experienced this today, i never let go of the brake rope, but i did a 60m dynamic rope rappel and the rope was just trying to fly through my atc because of the elasticity. Luckily i had a third hand. Not to mention the atc felt like it was hot enough to melt my rope if i stood in one spot.
third hand???
@@lucas29476 yes
@@lucas29476 its a string/knot that helps you rappel
Military, only repel on a static line.
Wouldn’t it act different with MORE weight on the line (holding the cam locked tighter)?
It would have been cool to see it done with a 50m rope as that’s a length I’m likely to experience.
When you pull back the lever (unlock the cam) it releases the load because the rope has the weight off of it and flows through the gri gri with no traction. The point being is that the hazard is when the cam is unlocked. Essentially the weight is off of the cam at that point. More weight would mean more rope stretch, meaning that there is a greater potential for more rope to be pulled back through the device once the rope is unweighted (cam unlocked).
I have belayed with an gri gri and I can tell you that this scenario makes no sense.
First lesson i learned, shout out to prusik knots.
Awesome i have that same exact rope. Crag we care classic. Love it.
Using both the Sender harness and a We Care 80m. Been a tremendous fan of both, though will say would’ve appreciated the front loops were not coated but the same low profile nylon as the back, as well as only Edelrids are properly lap coiled, but Mammut is the best of everyone else.
The most logical way to understand why you should always hold the rope is that if it was safe not holding it than manufacturers would say that. Because it is advantage. Who wants to hold it for no reason? So if thay said to hold, that means it is the only safe way to use this belay device.
That problem with that is if you don’t give people a good reason they may go one thinking they know more then the manufacturer and that the manufacturer may just be covering there ass with over safety regulations.
Stopper knots save lives
aweseome video, please do some more videos like this!
Actual subject of the video is @ 7:34
Muchas gracias por tomarte el trabajo de hacer esta prueba en campo. Saludos!
I'm a newb with a gri gri, thanks for the tip!
Very good to know. Thanks a million.
I dont rapell on grigris. I use em soley for lead belay, folowers get belayed by me with atc guide from the top and to rapell i use the atc aswell or the 8 if the atc is not available. Ive also never done long single rope rapells. Only one single one wich was like 12m to clean and check out a possible bolder /short route in my area. Wich i ended up first ascending on toprope since there is no cracks or anything and i didnt want to bolt virgin rock with questionable legality.
Thanks for the lifesaver! 👍😁
after i became an arborist i feel nothing about throwing my rope in dirt, i have become evil
Do you use a grigri + when workiin the tree?
@@malr1975 no but I use a Grillon
Really cool demo cheers Josh! Defo wondered how you go about using 2 gri-gri's at the same time!
😂
@@BetaClimbers he's talking about not using a third hand but man, sounds like we're going to need four!
@@magwitch yeah I ment using a special carabiner but there are a couple other cool tricks I’ll make a RUclips short Tn.
@@BetaClimbers oh yes, you did make that clear in the video, I just like the idea of a silly video using 2 gri-gri's.
Also keen to see that biner video. (Already subbed with notifications, too good a channel to miss a video!)
@@magwitch right on appreciate it 🤙🏻 yeah that would be a funny thing to see lol I can imagine some one trying to set it up as a top rope solo back up if they didn’t know what they where doing. Lol 😂
What did you do to make the rope slip? It's not clear in the video.
Let's Rappel down and scuba dive the quarry.
Good thing he left his rope tarp home. It might have gotten dirty in that quarry.
Letting go while pulling on the bar is ridiculous, never seen anyone do that.. seen plenty of people briefly let go when system is statically weighted though
It’s not so much about pulling the bar and letting go. If the rope has enough plastic deformation, there can be a tremendous amount of pull back. Even with a hand on the break a large amount of rope can snap through a grigri. If you rappel while “Riding the pig” or in a rescue attempt you will feel it for yourself especially if you try to unweighted the rope abit while near the end of the line. So it’s best to ad some friction to help counter act that. I made a short video on one way to do that quickly.
Cool I'll watch it. But can you explain why you wouldn't use a prussik?
Very useful . Thank you 🙏
My first rope was an 80 meter, and I completely butchered uncoiling it. Took me an hour and a half to get it all straightened out.
I would love to see some quarry video!
Awesome demonstration video, too!
Actual video starts at 6:05
Damn man! Almost 33k subscribers?!?! Congrats, you deserve it! That’s awesome to see because I’ve been here since you started (or close to it). I really appreciated how humble you are and that you kept videos up where you made a mistake… despite all the haters and keyboard warriors who’ve never climbed a day in their life; let alone tried to spread knowledge on RUclips for strangers to grow. That kind of content is rare, which is sad because it helps amateurs learn so much. Lol I’m in no way implying that you make mistakes often btw 😂. I just know that most content creators would delete their videos if they fricken pronounced a word incorrectly or something petty like that. We’re all here to learn and share experiences…. And to watch your daughter steal your props hahahaha. Keep it up brother because you’re sharing valuable knowledge that could (or potentially has) save lives.
Not much rock climbing out here in Detroit, MI but I’ve always enjoyed your content because I spend a lot of my free time in tree canopy’s (often using a grigri for RADS, if I’m feeling lazy and don’t wanna rope walk). Keep it up brother and stay safe 👍.
Right on appreciate it! Made my day 🤙🏻
@@BetaClimbers Hell yea, you have a big following now. All the hard work will likely lead to even more!
Keep your hands off my dozer!!!
New rope right in the dirt just hurts 😰
F
Thanks Josh. I appreciate this. I am new and assembling my gear for top rope soloing and just got a Gri Gri and I was wondering about this exact question - do you need to keep brake hand on. So it is really helpful to know this kind of stuff before I make mistakes that were knowable before hand. - and the end knot!!! Was watching free solo again the other day and Alex had his first fall and got all busted up because he fell and no end knot so girlfriend watches the end of the rope go right through the Gri Gri - and there is another scene where he and Tommy Caldwell and like two ft from the end of their rope repelling with a Gri Gri and have a super loose single figure 8 knot at the end that I am sure wouldn't hold. But that also made me think - hey they really trust this piece of equipment so it must be rock solid.
Yeah going off the end has takin a lot of lives, the laws of climbing are written in blood.
Seeing other people do dangerous stuff and assuming that means it’s a-ok could potentially be fatal. Some experienced climbers can become complacent with certain safety protocol, I wouldn’t recommend following suit.
Great info right there dude!
Video starts at 6:06
Basically grigris are less safe... if the user doesn't use it right.
If your belaying and you use that much rope, you need longer ropes or shorter climbs . You should never be that close to the end. Stopper knots are for not only for safety, but it's an excuse by some climbers to pay out to much rope. Change your belay station or climb something shorter...
dude... there's a random kid that keeps poppin up messin your videos...
Does this happen to the grigri plus too? cuz it has a lever that disengages.
Who’s going to tell him the grigri isn’t designed to be a descender? It’s a belay device. Petzl has other designated descenders on the market. Use the grigri properly and there won’t be that “flaw.”
You are correct however it’s commonly used as one. Climbers are not going to haul up something like a petzl rig on their climbing adventure. Also this hazard can really be found in any device because it’s just in the nature of the rope because of that I’m thinking of remaking this video that’s a little more to the point. Appreciate the info!
nice
on the ground climbing channel XD
70 to 80 feet of stretch on a 70 meter/80 meter rope?
Quarry vid would be cool.
Country Josh? Relative of our other friend who we don’t speak of?
🤣
6:07 to get to the content
Legit info as always.