It's NOT what you think
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2023
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A tibloc is a lightweight tooth device used for emergencies, mechanical advantage and sometimes as a way to protect the leader during a simul climb if the 2nd falls. We tested it to see if it shred ropes faster than an ascender or micro traxion and it did not. We tested to see if the plates would break if you clipped it wrong and the device itself is crazy strong at 30kn but if it isn't in the carabiner and you clip it like the warning infographic from petzl, it shreds your rope, in our case at 6kn on a dynamic rope, not because the teeth but from the sharp edge.
Alpine Savvy has a great blog on this www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/petz...
Micro Traxion video • Petzl said to NEVER do...
Micro Traxion blog www.hownot2.com/post/petzl-mi...
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Making jokes, breaking things, and probably saving people's lives. Sounds like you have a good job!
I thought they were for emergency use. Ideal as a back up hand ascender if you are mine exploring l/caving using srt. Its good to see this on static rope x
I have one in my crevasse kit!
I explore mines and always have my tibloc clipped to my haul loop, just in case!
I use one as a backup when I'm triming trees. Maybe this was said in the video and I missed it, but Petzl even warns of the risk of desheathing the rope at 4kn for 8mm rope and 7.6kn for 11mm rope. I like the Tibloc, but personally, would never count on it being my only connection to the rope. I'm usually also tied in with a prusik or other mechanical descender like the Notch RopeRunner. That said, the Tibloc did get me out of a jam once when one of my prusik's seized up on the line so tight I couldn't get it to release. Using the Tibloc I was able to momentarily take my weight off the prusiks and get a figure 8 in below them, and then use that to get down the rope. It's so small and light weight there really isn't a good reason not to have one, unless the rope you use is just completely incompatible with it.
i use it on top rope solo not as a safety device, but if i need to get weight off my system to switch to rappel then i use the tibloc to do so since it’s so easy to get on and off and you only need one or two jugs to get weight off the main device
Ditto. I Cary these climbing for an emergencies/self rescue.
I'd be very interested in seeing the same tests done with the newer Tibloc.
Very comprehensive testing. Great video. 👍
@howNOT2
Dude, so stoked you tested an original tiblok. I just retired one because the teeth are gone and upgraded to the new gated version. Kinda wanna send it to you to play with. Also for the record, it lasted 4 years of weekly use gear hauling for roof cleaning before I polished the teeth off.
The timing of this was great - the alpine savy post mentioned using them for low - load progress capture devices and specifically pointed out Petzl instructions to run rope over the carabiner when used like that. I thought it was for load distribution of the rope over the carabiner so it wasn’t on the rails. Turns out it was the edge de-sheathing the rope were supposed to be afraid of!
That sharp outer edge is the very first thing that hit me when I bought mine... I took a very fine diamond file to that edge all around and damn near polished it. Felt a lot safer instantly, now I know why...😆👍🏻
I wonder if the next gen will have a flared mouth.
re: the test at 5:27, the forces are high for a whip because the follower isn’t realistically modeled as a finite mass
I've only used these for simul-climbing. In that case, I rig them to protect the follower (rope can run up, but not down), so if the follower falls they don't pull the leader off the wall.
That’s exactly what they’re made for but in alpine context not really climbing
Thank you for testing this!
You guys are the only ones doing these experiments, thanks
Nice video’s & great demos🐛 thank you for ever.
Whoaaaa. This one was wild to watch. Thanks for testing it!
thank you ryan! as usual - great video!! and thanks for testing tibloc - as i wrote you in a mail! =) you're the best!!
My Tibloc is for crevasse rescue and emergency hauling/ascending; static-ish loads only. If simul-climbing, idk, the only formal type that I would might do is for glacier travel. That’s done with the rope directly tied into the harness.
That was badass! Great review!
I actually don't rock climb at all and I watch these videos all of the time because I saddle hunt and there is a lot of useful information out there for us considering we use a combination of forestry and rock climbing equipment. This leads to some issues finding truly safe setups because there isn't really a "correct" way to do it and we end up having a lot of unique issues that others don't have. For example we spend an inordinate amount of time at one spot on the rope for numerous days in succession and bulk, weight, and noise are very important to us. I'd really like to see you do a video testing various common setups, many of which go outside of manufacturer tolerances.
I don't rock climb either. Saddle hunting brought me here 2 years ago. This place has a lot of great information. I cringe watching one stick demos. Seems like 90% of guys climb way above their anchor point and don't realize what would happen if their stick broke.
Love reading this. It’s crazy cool how much rock climbing technology has extended into soooo many sports (caving, diving, etc…) - and this a new one. Awesome to hear! Hope the hunt this year goes well!
Great material..Thank you so much. NOW we have some real numbers and not just a gut feel.
How do you know what everyone is thinking? That's quite a talent!. Very comprehensive testing. Great video. .
Love this! Using a microtrax or ropeman for simul-climbing is something I do a few times a year and always concerns me a little, I was wondering whether using a tibloc was an option.
What a great and useful tests.
Thank you 🙏🏻👌🏻👍🏻🌹❤
I don't know if I missed it, but i'd love to see some strength test on aluminium carabiners with steel insert, like the Edelrid Bulletproof. Would be interesting to see where and how they break
Tiblock is a great peace of gear, I mostly use it together wit a rollclip ror hauling or tensioning ropes, cheap, lightweight, small, everyday carry on my harness
tibloc preserves the leader in case if 2nd falls off, so it's an essential test to perform. Yeah, we know the static force is ~600kN but in dynamic it may break the sheath with less force. I mean, fall with 1-2m slack, which looks realistic to me
Very interesting! You really beat the living crap out of the poor old tibloc 😄 30 kN after all that, impressive!
"It's not science unless you do a large sample size of two". Awesome...YES, Science is like that!!!
Came here to science!
Well done 👍very good and helpful video 👍thanks
I bought one of these years ago and use it often.
I bough two Tiblocs years ago because they weighed practically nothing and were quite cheap. I carried them with me as a guide for years and don't think I've ever used them.
I used to use a half clove knot or croosed carabiner descender to belay my partner too, in case of emergency. Old school method works very well! Those teehts makes me chill!
Wet palms are wet! Thanks for sharing.
How do you know what everyone is thinking? That's quite a talent!
Fancy looking microtraxions! :D
Very comprehensive testing. Great video. . Very comprehensive testing. Great video. .
Great stuff
I have used one of these before to climb the mast of a sailboat using a block and tackle. Mostly so you dont need someone bored on deck losing attention to you and being trapped up there when someone on deck is running the winch and decides to take off. Its never failed and if it did all you need to do is grab the falls of the tackle to stop or slow your descent.
This was definitely interesting. I didnt know there were so many ways to use it.
I have, in an act of desperation and optimism, used a tibloc as a bolt plate for Aussie carrot bolt (just use one ‘cheek’ as a plate & clip into the bigger side to trap the thing onto the hex head) I’ve often wondered if it would have held a fall…. @HowNOT2
Can you please get the new one and do another review to compare the new and old models!!!
Thanks
Super good enough. 👌
i didn't know they added a spring to a new version, it kinda justifies high price😂 my friend tried to use it for toprope solo on easy alpine routes and wasn't happy about it at all as the thing seemed to not catch every other time he tried to load it
ps the old version
I'm gonna try this for some light block and tackle overhead rigging as a progress capture. Seems like if you use it with proper technique it won't absolutely shred rope
Have you done a review on Climbing Technologies Rollnlock? I like it a lot for the less aggressive gripping design. While top rope soloing I use it and a gri gri and it hasn't failed me yet but I'm not taking whippers like that. Would love to see what it can take.
It's my favorite ascender because it's small and light
Have a question are the teeth on your older one as sharp as the teeth on the new ones the pictures online show a very aggressive teeth
I've never really liked devices that have sharp pointy teath but I am aware that there are places that they might be the item that most climbers reach for. I joined the climbing world through the tree surgery side of things and long enough back that all the fancy assenders and rope tending devices that tree surgions use today didn't exist. My preferred method has always been prusik ropes. I can't climb anymore due to severe back problems, but I've recently started taking my daughter to the local climbing wall. My original idea was to stay on the floor and be a belay bunny for her but she suffers with anxiety issues and has decided that she wants me up there beside her....... which brings me back to assenders and other rope management/ rope tending devices...... which can be very expensive. I'm still playing with different ways to assend the ropes but it boils down to prusiks (or something similar) and some pullies to slowly make my way up beside her. I'm still not really convinced that Tiblock types of devices are the way to go 😂
I'd say buy a rope walker or some form to save your back and buy unicore rope. It would cost more up front but would save you in the long run.
Notch Jet Step. Best foot ascender I've ever used, and it doesn't have teeth. Instead it has ridges on both lobes of a dual cam design. I've been called a "rope diva" because of how much care I take in the silly strings that keep me in the trees, and I love my jet step. Super smooth, takes almost no rope weight beneath it to feed properly, easy to get it on the rope, doesn't come off unless you want it to. I can sing the praises of the thing all day.
Yeah the new tibloc seems like I could use it as an emergency ascender but I like my Michoacan. I use the tibloc to attach my foot loop and for that it's a super handy clip in and go device.
Mine kicks out sometimes.
Also snags on the opposute pant leg.. still one of the best foot ascendets tho. Ssme as the harken ninja
Ive tried to use a tibloc as a diy knee ascendet and hav messed up dome sheaths a lil bit... not idesl but very light weight setup. Better gor thinner ropes
Hi HowNOT2, I recently went multi-pitch climbing in a group of three, and we used two single ropes instead of twins. We clipped them as we would with twin ropes. It was a bolted route, so I figured we would be fine. I would like to see the difference between the forces generated in a fall using twin ropes as intended and using two single ropes in a single piece. My gut tells me that more force will be generated when using single ropes, since there is more "braking" power. I'd love to see this tested in the drop tower. Thanks!
I’m reading your question wrong maybe. You generate the same force either way, the same load is falling the same distance. The energy dispersion will be faster or slower between ropes.
@@MoodyWorksInc I think it would be a harder catch (=more force) because there is less stretch in a single rope than a half rope
@@IAmMaarten Correct. And rope stretch is not linear and a stretchy feeling rope at hand generated loads doesn't mean it is better or worse at fall type loads
The leader would experience what you would call an auch to his back
Like the previous commenters said, I would highly recommend not doing that because falling on two single ropes (not triple rated) will mean a very hard and potentially painful catch. Unless maybe when you're more worried about hitting something in a fall than a soft catch. The way to go in your case is to only clip one rope or alternate between which rope you clip.
What kind of rope is that at 2:27 and 1:11? Looks like same make, but different colors and/or diameters? Great video, Ryan! Thanks as always for chasing another proverbial rabbit!
You had similar results with the megajul. I assume that steel would probably destroy he rope first in most of these scenarios.
Super good enough.
Anyone got a link to the video mentioned @ 3:32? I still haven't come across it.
Have you tested kong duck rope clamp ? Doesn't have aggressive teeth
best rigger in the game
Have you climber guys used "soft rope constrictors" that use a fabric sleeve around the rope? No teeth at all. We use them in ocean sailing, see Ronstan Constrictor.
Could you test the Wild Country Ropeman ascenders. They don’t have small teeth but use a cam and horizontal gear-like teeth. I’ve had a couple for years but have never used them as there wasn’t any good data on them. I’m sure you could reach out to the company and they would let you test them.
BTW, I think they are useful for a ratchet system in a haul 3:1,5:1 pulley system. Nice and small and light.
7:30 I noticed the plates started to pinch inward on the carabiner. Did it return to normal or did it bend in & stay tight?
could be a good time to release the CT rollnlock video :)
please lol
I carrry two Tiblocs with my chalk bag... they are ultra lightweight and they can do many things for you in a pinch. Side note.... I try to never have to use them.
i've just discovered your channel, it's really good. you say your 's' sounds in a strange way though that makes me think you're maybe not allowed near schools and swimming pools
"a large sample size of 2" 🤣🤣🤣
Would the TiBlock (new one) work as progress capture for SRT?
With what and where would you back it up? I want to be as safe as possible. Thanks.
Surely the tibloc is basically two bolt hangers connected together so not surprising it was really strong.
Now do it with a Duck! ....... the thing from Kong.... please!
Also the Edelrid Spoc is a nice device, but I think it should have similar results to the microtraxion and ascender. Also I am excited to the unicore video.
I could have sworn you said "unicorn rope"
honestly considering how long people have been requesting it it might as well be.
4:35 even though it was a test, the scrariest sound ive heard in a while
which teal blue carabiner with green locker screw is that one?
I just now remember to dream I had weeks ago about testing out micro-akimbos on like 8 mm dymax core or something.. being all psyched about it in the dream.. is that weird??
Man I hate Newtons so much. I've always wondered why didn't they line it up with the rest of the base units? I feel like they took what benefit metric has and threw it out the window with Newtons.
In anything relatively scientific or where I don't mind the extra syllables I'll always use SI, but honestly Kilonewtons annoy me so much that I always just end up using lbs. Especially when it comes to anything related to body weight.
But you know what the worst is though? Units of time.....the one change we _really_ need and it just got left by the wayside.
Noone even talks about decimalizing time anymore...😢😢
Have you ever used or tested The Petzl ROLLCLIP Pulley Carabiner?
Tiblocs are forged steel , amazing strength for weight
Can this replace a prusik for repelling? given it might shreds the rope or add additional wear, wonder if its worth it?
"The shredded rope would give you more anxiety at that point" bro at least you'd be around to have anxiety 🤷♂️😅
As rock climbing instructors we sometimes top rope solo with grigri's or microtraxions in easy terrain. Now I was in a scenario with a rope too thin for the Grigri and I did not have a traxion, so I used an auto locking Munter, have you guys ever tested this? What breaks first the rope (in a knot) or the weirdly loaded carabiner?
The human would break first
May I ask, isn‘t the leader supposed to get catched by the teeth? Cause in your test it was the other way around?
Have you tested the climbing technology roll n lock and I just haven't noticed? It's kinda cool because it doesn't use "teeth" like a tibloc or microtraxion
He does have a video of that somewhere... it still de-sheathed the rope at similar loads.
I have a rollnlock and imo it kinda sucks.. doesnt grab reliably, and lots of setback if used as a locking pulley... and small sheave... most poeple seem to love theirs tho
I like my old Shunt.
Never thought about adding it to an anchor to protect in simul climbing. Seems like you lose the shock absorbing ability of the second as counterweight, and risk higher forces overall. Nice as a backup for the second in case the rope gets stuck, or the crux need to be passed. You should do a test against a standard prussik
rope moves through the biner if leader falls, teeth only engage if second falls
Hey Ryan have you ever tested the Petzl Shunt? I use it for TR soloing all the time, it doesn't have teeth, I'd be interested to see how it does.
What is your tr solo setup? I want to get into it cause I’m in ga and hard to find a climbing partner in the summer
@@alexeisenhardt9299 fix the anchor, wait the bottom of the line, climb with the shunt. You have to be a little mindful so you don't accidentally release it, but for me it's bomber. I'm sure there's tutorials on RUclips. Other people TR solo with a similar rig but using microtraxions I think
@@JonSteitzer so you use just one shunt?
Thats s great request
I’ve used tiblocs for years. But NEVER as a fall arrest device! I have an ASAP for that. it’s used in conjunction with other devices for ascending or positioning. Are people really putting themselves in a position where the tiblloc is the only thing holding them up?
I'd like to see a gibbs versus a jumar pull
Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern, four times is a standard.
Just FYI regarding testing standards
Science more typically does 3 measurements and not 2 for a given set of test criteria. The exception might be if both measurements are within your concern/desire for accuracy. With two measurements, which is right? The third breaks the tie (pun intended), so to speak. Climb on.
Interesting, I’d use it exclusively for static use anyway
I hunt with climbing gear, what is the best climbing rope to use?
What is the best gun?
It is gonna depend on a bunch of factors. I would look at some sort of static rope and make sure it is compatible with whatever devices you plan on using.
Two dudes. One line. I don't know what I was expecting with that title.
Would a munter work instead? Or too hard to pull through?
Munter only adds friction it doesn't stop the rope like a tibloc.
Oh wow. As an arborist, this is basically useless to me, but still good to know.
LARGE sample size ;) love it
This just in. Steel is strong.
I wanna see extreme pro unicore by PMI tested with knots and ascenders.
Overhand
8
And all types of ascenders
How did i end up here?
Its about 225 lbs per kilonewton
certainly would not be a device I would use. Any device that shreds ropes is not my preferred choice. I’d rather the device slipped before damaging the rope -every time.
🍀🍀
hello did you had petzl asap break test video?
YESSS I just bought the new and old version
Its pronounced Tibloc!
Test for nothing ...cause the block ...its only in case of emergency and to climb up ...not for do security for the second guy ....
promo sm 💯