I mean the character could just have cateracts or glaucoma I'm told they're eyes actually look like that, Anyway it makes sense to have a visual shorthand for a sighted audience. Otherwise we actually would have to just draw attention to it or explain it so that people would get it if they couldn't notice just by watching. What annoys me is when this trope shows up in written media. In a movie it's an acceptable visual cue, in a book it is just a lazy trope, either having milky white or glossy blue eyes without explaining if it's due to cataract or glaucoma which you can actually do in a book. And nystagmus would be a much cooler visual shorthand they'll probably harder to pull off
@@lahlybird895I did not know about nystagmus until now; it does look like a neat shorthand for blindness, especially as an artist myself! (Dunno if I can actually make one just bc I haven't finished a personal creation like that in a while now, but still!) :)
@FurKid_the_Gg_roo_99 yeah most people don't know about it it's not brought up again pale blue white milky unfocused eyes are the common shorthand and people don't always look into the other ideas to research It would definitely be cool and something like a movie about or an animation
the last point in the video is kind of interesting because, in my opinion at least, it's a good thing that stems from a bad thing. It just feels to me like the reason the creators were comfortable to just let Chirrut be disabled and didn't over-explain it, was *because* of the tropes he represented. as in, the "blind martial artist who is still a badass" trope is so widespread and well known to the audience it's almost more shocking if it doesn't happen. so the creators probably felt they don't need to explain anything about Chirrut except that 1) he's a great fighter and 2) he's blind; expecting the audience to fill in the rest based on their familiarity with the archetype
You know, the part about painting a whole group with the same brush is really on point for me. Many tend to think that, just because i am authistic, i am sweet, innocent and could never lie or trick, even if I am capable of doing both things😂.
The "But then we'd have to think about accessibility!" argument is the worst, as it's an open acknowledgement that they have no intention of hiring anyone with that disability in *any* capacity. I had an infuriating 2h argument with a doctor once about the cost-effectiveness of providing for "special needs" (his word for communication access) in *hospitals.* He was clearly unfamiliar with the concept of disabled employees/providers in healthcare.
“Look for The Force... and you will always find me... The Force is with me... and I am one with the Force.” - Chirrut Îmwe, Blind Force Sensitive “Don't mistake his lack of eyesight for a lack of vision.” - Baze Malbus on the subject of Imwe’s blindness
The blind sage trope is also probably a reference to Tiresias, the blind prophet in Greek mythology. He was given future-vision as compensation for Hera destroying his sight and is often called on for wisdom and advice. Fun fact: Tiresias also lived as a woman for 7 years after hitting some snakes.
One thing I want to point out is, in regards to the ‘blind sage’ trope, chirrut is far from the only character in Star Wars to have that kind of wisdom and spirituality. Many of the Jedi in other instalments of the Star Wars story have similar qualities to Chirrut in that regard and, while he’s not a true Jedi, Chirrut is somewhat Jedi-adjacent. The way Chirrut falls into the ‘blind sage’ trope is similar to how he falls into the ‘disability superpower’ trope; Chirrut has those qualities because he’s written to be similar to a Jedi. We’ve seen both abled and disabled Jedi that have those characteristics before. (Although there are certainly questions to be asked about why the blind character specifically was chosen to be force sensitive)
Simple way of answering that question Simply ask the opposing question of if he would still have been for sensitive if he wasn't blind if the answer is probably then it wasn't a specific choice that he's blind it's just something that came later but he was still would have been the same character I can't ask her answer that question I barely know anything about starwars lol
@@lahlybird895given the inspiration for star wars is the Japanese samurai film (and old Westerns and Flash Gordon) and that draws from the same narratives that the blind sage trope is originally from it may be he was self consciously written as an iteration of that trope.
@@seekingabsolution1907 that's entirely possible, although that makes me curious what the character was going to be like before the actor made the decision to have him be blind
@@seekingabsolution1907 And there's also the question of Kanan Jarrus, a character from the Rebels show- a padawan (Jedi squire/apprentice, essentially) who survived Order 66- and in the show, was blinded but was still Force-Sensitive and had to overcome the loss of his sight. (FYI, the episode where he was blinded aired earlier in the year that Rogue One premiered) Which can lean into the samurai/Japanese inspired source material, or provide a second example of a Force sensitive (but not Jedi) character being... reabled(?) via the mystical side of Star Wars.
I think the character as is could have worked as just a beggar who turns out to be a martial arts master and Force psychic. Making him blind just added that element to him.
Ah, Oakwyrm the Platypus! Your timing is indeed impeccable - and by impeccable I mean COMPLETELY PECCABLE! Regarding the "I'm too bi to not appreciate Kenobi" thing, in case you didn't know there's a new-ish book where Obi-Wan questions his sexuality at one point. Personally I headcanon him as bi because Sir Alec Guinness was
Chirrut is all the more meaningful but also agonizing when you remember that this is also the movie with Saw Gerrera, and Saw’s respiratory disability is used as shorthand to parallel him with Vader.
Wait, it was? I admit my memory of Rogue One is sketchy at best, but the only issue I remember having with that character is that he only showed up twice
@@TheShapeshifter100 Yes, it was. Saw's character arc was always intended to be a light-side mirror to Vader's fall, ever since he and his sister were introduced in Clone Wars. His respiratory issues are from exposure to the same toxins that were used by the Empire to exterminate the Geonosian species, IIRC.
Listening to the disability tropes you have brought up in your video, I can't help but draw similarities to the many limited, tired tropes Asian actors were forced into in Western media. This includes the "martial artist master" and the "wise old mentor" which Chirrut unfortunately falls into. Even so, he managed to go above the racial stereotypes we were so used to. Chirrut's sense of humour had helped a lot in differentiating him from one-note tropes, which I appreciate as a Chinese (I do not speak for others, this is just my opinion). And seeing that a disabled person like you also appreciate Rogue One's potrayal of Chirrut in terms of disability, it makes me happy.
Knowing that Donnie Yen asked specifically for Chirrut to be blind honestly makes Caine's blindness in John Wick 4 feel even weirder than the already weird vibes I got from it initially.
Regarding the idea of it being difficult to find a blind Asian actor. When they were casting the main trio for The Force Awakens they held massive casting calls in multiple countries with each location processing thousands of people. I went to the one in Ireland. If they can afford and coordinate the logistics for that I think narrowing down the field would actually be easier and cheaper.
it's one of those cases where if Rogue One existed in a context with a lot more and more diverse disability rep, it's flaws wouldn't even be anything to write home about, I feel.
And the other Force sensitive who's blind but mystics around it happened the same year, (though for Kanan, the blindness was injury based, not... wait, I'm not sure if Chirrut was born blind or it occurred later...)
The most frustrating thing is that with Chirrut and Kanan, the Star Wars universe has established a way to have blind characters who are still functionally blind but are easier to understand in terms of how they interact with the world than having to explain how real blind people really learn to navigate without sight, and still they haven't made any more major blind characters. Like, a blind, probably force-sensitive pickpocket intelligence operative who apologizes for running in to targets because, "of course I couldn't see where I was going. I'm blind, you asshole," is a character waiting to be written. Also, "Oh, this is a zone for authorized personnel only? I'm sorry. I must have gotten turned around. Could someone lead me out? I didn't see the signs because I'm blind," all after having gone around planting explosive charges in the area. They have the option for disabilities to work FOR the stories they tell so much but then don't use it at all.
Andor is a genuinely fantastic science fiction show, so you've gotta watch that. I know Bad Batch has Channel Reasons that put it on your todo list and Disney's ever flowing content farm is fatiguing, but you've gotta watch Andor.
I was going to jokingly suggest looking at Doctor Loveless from the Wild Wild West movie for an example of disability representation, because that movie was kind of terrible and the villain especially so. But when I looked him up to check that I got the name right, I discovered that the original Loveless from the show was portrayed by a little person, and now I'm kind of swirling down a vortex of problematic. Did they intentionally take a character who was half as tall as the average adult and replace him with a character who is literally half of an adult man?
IIRC, there was some information in a visual dictionary(?) for Rogue One that elaborated that Chirrut's staff also has a proximity sensor in the head, which I thought was a neat and very plausible example of an assistive technology. Though the example with him walking out into a firefight isn't necessarily force use; it's not unknown for a firefight to leave someone unscathed, and tactically the deathtroopers may be focusing on the people shooting back, and not the apparently crazy guy walking out in the open until he starts messing with something important that they need to stop.
One disabled character I would love to hear thoughts on is Sal Fisher A.K.A Sally Face. He’s a character in an indie psychological horror & mystery video game called Sally Face. He’s nicknamed that because that’s what his bullies called him so he just adapted the name for himself so no one can use it against him anymore. While the game mostly touches on the paranormal mysteries of the apartment he & his dad live in, Sally does have conversations with other characters about his prosthetic & you can even go through a series of puzzles to uncover the mysteries of what happened to Sal’s face. That’s all I feel comfortable saying without spoiling too much about the story in case you want to check it out yourself
I do think a certain wisdom comes from being a minority. We're already judged for stupid reasons so we question more why other things are judged. (this can also affect empathy) But this wisdom being mostly written for blind characters is... weird....
He was definitely my favorite character from Rogue One. Really wanted him to live so he could appear again. I get why. Everyone else died. But I would've been fine with him and Baze survived.
There's a blind guy on TikTok who goes surfing, so I kind of feel like the "character needs to do things a disabled person couldn't" is really blatantly a cop out.
If you wanna learn about some more famous blind people, there is The Blind Surfer and Sam Langford who was blinded on 1 eye almost blind on the other and was still able to become a boxing champion with about 100 wins. I don't know many blind people so please add names in the comments
To add some names :) -Molly Burke (Actress,author , motivational speaker ,activist ,RUclipsr/influencer) -Haben Girma(Human Rights Lawyer advocating for disability justice ) -Shayla Brown (Actress) -Alicia Grace (Motivational speaker) -The Blind Hippie (Animal rights attorney, artist and advocate) -M1nerva The M1st1c(Digital creator, independent peer specialist) -Paul in the duo Mathew and Paul(Artist ,Podcaster) -Ramya Amuthan(Producer / cohost within AMI) -Kelly MacDonald(Producer, radio host and overall staple of AMI,in my opinion :) ) I know there's people that I'm missing but right now it's early in the morning and my brains not fully remembering everyone. From someone who is legally blind above represents a good snapshot of the community. The people above may all be blind but they also hold many intersectional identities within that.
I think the whole blind character with super human senses/extraordinary wisdom thing is lessened because thats just kinda how most experience jedi are in starwars.
The most emotional Star Wars moment I watched was Jedi Night. Though the eye changing thing... Jedi Survivor has a disabled villain. I watched a bit of gameplay videos.
The pilot in Jedi Survivor, Greez, is disabled and has a robotic arm, it's not really commented on that much, and he has 4 arms. He loses it in a tie-in comic. But yeah, the main villain Dagan Gera is missing an arm. Not great.
I thought you made a video on Chirrut now because Donnie Yen played ANOTHER BLIND FIGHTER in John Wick just 3 months ago! It's almost a pattern for him by now.
@@Oakwyrm I'm grateful for your videos :) I am actually quite curious about his portrayal in John Wick. It feels different to other "blind badasses" (but I am able-bodied, so don't take my word for it). During his scenes he sometimes uses his cane to move around and in one scene he uses audio motion sensors around a room so he can tell where enemies are. ...and in other scenes he just accurately shoots people so... shrug. I don't know, at best the blind moments might be faithful but at worst they might feel like parody. If it means anything he's a nice character with a nice ending more or less (considering the assassin movie genre). Nice as in he's not a villain, he doesn't really want to be there, but has to do a job.
@@Oakwyrm It seems that the circumstances around the creation of Caine (Donnie Yen's character in John Wick Chapter 4) were different from Chirrut Imwe. This is what I've read from the articles around it, so please take it with a grain of salt. It looked like Caine had been written to be blind from the very start, taking inspiration from the popular Japanese fictional character Zatoichi who's a blind swordsman. Something to note is that said character reportedly went by a different (and more racially stereotypical) name in the early stages before Donnie Yen asked the director to change it, but there had been no suggestion that the name "Caine" itself came from the actor. Regardless, as much as I, a Chinese, appreciate Donnie Yen's contribution towards making the role less racially stereotypical, the fact remains that the creators of John Wick casting him in the first place (after he had played a blind character before) is inexcusably and outright casting an able-bodied actor in a disabled role, more so than the complicated casting of Chirrut Imwe.
I wrote this a while back after watching your videos and you mentioned that people don't sleep with their prosthetics. I hope you like it. A character is original to me and I created a long time ago. -Mac Trem’s Morning Routine: Trem wakes up, his right and only eye is fuzzy. He rubs it with his right hand and swings his legs out of bed. He removes his eye patch and puts it on the nightstand built into the wall and floor. He picks up his cybernetic left eye from its charging port. He plugs it into his eye socket and it comes to life. Now with his vision restored, he gets up and walks a few steps to his cybernetic left arm. He removes the sock from his left arm that covers his connecting port. Trem had accidentally cut himself on the metal in his sleep before and had to improvise. He picks up his left hand and connects it to his arm. It clicks into place and he moves the fingers and hand around experimentally to test the connection. Satisfied, he gets dressed in his New Republic uniform and clips his lightsaber to his belt. He exits his quarters and the door closes behind him. On the door in aurebesh it reads ”Captain Mac Trem” with “Captain’s Quarters” below it.
There is always one~ You mentioned the non-timeliness of this episode, and I just finished relistining to an episode of the podcast Never Tell Me The Pods where two of them debate whether Chirrut is Force Sensitive or not (ep 35). And throughout the conversation, I was thinking I needed to check in to see what any of the people I watch who are more in depth with disability have to say. So perfect timing for specifically me! (The person saying Chirrut may not be Force Sensitive basically has the take that the Force acts through Chirrut like it does with Han, with the main difference being that Chirrut believes in the Force and his role in it, and let's the Force do its thing. Even if he can't sense the Force, he knows it is working through him, and he chooses to go along with it. The other person comes from the same "Of course he uses the Force" points that you brought up)
I know this is extremely off topic but I can't figure out what the flag in your picture is? I've tried looking it up but I can't find it anywhere. is it just a color changed nb flag for aesethetic pourposes or does it have a specific meaning?
If u haven't watched it I recomend Kenobi it's probably my favourite thing in the universe also Reva is such a good character and I don't get why the fandom hates her.
This video is great, thanks so much for breaking down Chirrut's character and the casting for him! He was one of my faves. "But it's not impossible to find disabled actors. Do a casting call. Take a tisk on filling a role with a less recognisable name in favour of a better fit for the character." This, in my opinion, is the most important of your video. Reminded me of Netflix casting Freddy Carter, an actor who isn't a cane user, to play Kaz Brekker in Netflix's Shadow and Bone. I gotta say, knowing Freddy isn't a cane user undermined every single one of Kaz's scenes, especially the combat ones, in S2. Literally at one point thought "oh well an abled actor is doing this so it doesn't fit Kaz." Awkward since the author, Leigh Bardugo, is a cane user herself. Wish they'd just cast a cane user for Kaz, it would've worked.
I wasn’t a huge fan of Rogue One, but Chirrut and Blaze were definitely one of the highlights from the movie imo. Also speaking of Star Wars and disabled characters, have you heard of Tenel Ka (from the books)? She was (and still is) one of my fav all-time Star Wars characters bc how badass and cool she was. Anyway, I’m curious what your perspective is on her and what tropes/stereotypes she might embody that I didn’t really think about before (that is, if you’ve heard of her)
Its bonkers to me whenever people try and cite the "accommodation," concern (again, as you said, usually put less politely). Like... studios have to accommodate the whims and needs of the more... "auteur" acting talent all the damn time. But theyll gladly dump money and effort into it all for the sake of keeping that actor on board. So its a blatantly ableist claim that a studio cant make accommodations for someone who literally NEEDS it, if theyre the right one for the job.
Honestly I work as a crew member in theater, it is not hard. Hollywood is full of shit. If a small community theater can make itself assessable then so can a million dollar studio
Some people who get no pictures of the world from their eyes can still "see" and in a world where the force exists, it makes it easy to have faith in that sense. Could even be mistaken for the force. Or maybe make the force easier to tap into. Just hard to be certain of this good faith argument with so many other critiques around the character
Johnny Depp is blind in one eye and near sighted in the other. Ironically he probably kept it to himself for years so he wouldn't be type cast. I still prefer Donnie Yen in this role over Johnny Depp.
Great video! Rogue One has become such a classic it's always timely. Even if it's in 12 years from now, I would like to hear your thoughts on the Bad Batch. Not just about disability, but one of the characters gives me a trans vibe. Disney will never confirm them but they get me every time.
I mean, for a bunch of clones, who are all supposed to have the same (expressed) genetic structure (essentially Artificial Identical Clones, en masse), Omega seems... to stand out, _for some reason_ .
Hope you consider doing a video on Viktor from Arcane, including tackling the concept of “glorious evolution” - a concept he (a disabled man) made up in which all disabilities could & should be addressed via shimmer/hextech. Love your vids!
I've been missing ur videos!!Thank you for the new video! Will you ever make another video about DC (or one of their characters) ? anyway, have a good day
This is really left feild but can you look at disability in one piece, its really long but it has a lot of disabled and scarred characters and I want to know what you think about their treatment
I'm not shure I agree about the blind sage trope. I think the idea that not focusing on what's right in front of you allows you to understand realty better holds a lot of spiritual merit, and sight is often (and in my opinion justifiably) viewed as the most straightforward and "superficial" of the senses, capable of overwhelming with what's in plain view and distracting form less intuitive truths. its less about how all blind people are wise but rather how the sage had an easier time achieving wisdom thanks to their disability. that being said the trope does suffer from the same problems many other tropes about minorities suffer from, that being that we see it more than normal blind people and never besides one.
For the record (personally lol) the Bad Batch is totally worth it, I haven't been keeping up on anything else and did fine, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Echo as amputee representation
When it comes disability I'll always remember the 1999 movie Revelation.....it's a very obscure Christian apocalypse movie, there's two side characters one blind and the other in in a wheelchair, the antichrist can give anything using virtual reality....the two disabled character betray the good guys and damn their soul to hell without a second thought.
15:15 - 15:22 I think the “Star Wars” universe could actually stand to accommodate a lot more disabled and also non-binary/trans characters just because of the nature of what kind of world it is, to be quite honest.
Would it be an example of a 'bury your disabled' trope if a disabled character dies in a story, while there's another disabled character there too from the start? Does it matter if their disabilities are completely different?
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 It's just a hypothetical, really, I thought that if the problem with the trope is that it erases disabled representation, than having another disabled character would solve that, but I could be wrong of course
Do you have anything in mind? I'm also looking for disability representation in anime 🙂 He has a video on Fullmetal Alchemist, who's the most famous one probably, but some other known ones are Nunnally from Code Geass, maybe Gildarts Clive from Fairy Tale, and I hear good things about Violet from Violet Evergarden and Bojji from Ranking of Kings.
PLEASE do rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles!!!! (please no one laugh I know it's a long title and it's ninja turtles) but Oakwyrm if u do this know that you're not in for the quality of a bad barbie movie like someone would expect from ninja turtles, you're in for ducktales writing meets literally Ben Schwartz (again and his character is wearing blue Again) with fight scenes choreographed quality of ATLA and animated the quality of owl houses best animation fluidity moments. Translation: THE BEST ANIMATED FIGHTS IN HISTORY I SAID WHAT I SAID. if u won't do the whole show atleast do the netflix movie. yes there's a movie and the best I can describe how good it is is by doing this: DJDJCBRBDJSOCCNWOCKTBYOVPANQJCK NTJEICJWPAKCJDHFJ!!!!!!!! (Seriously the fight scenes in both show & the movie are SO good that all I can do in reaction at this point is sit back and make noises😵💫) and if you're STILL not convinced on the show Donnie (Donatello) has autism this time around and u can do a video about that.
Imagine if an actor made a particular choice for their character, the people in charge actually agree to the choice about that character, then they decide to recast the role to get a actor who fits the new choice made for the character that was made by the original actor... Like wow that would be hugely disrespectful. So I'm going to speak as somebody who was blind and somebody who kind of wants to get into the media fields. Various one more reason to be opposed to disabled actors playing a disabled characters exclusively that you didn't list. If able-bodied actors can't play disabled characters doesn't work with family in reverse? Because by extension wouldn't that mean that disabled actors can only play at disabled characters in order to avoid a double standard? The whole point of acting is to play different roles, sometimes those rules will be a lot like how you are in real life and sometimes they're going to be very very different which is the whole point of acting in the first place. Is there is not a lot of fun characters if I'm only going to be allowed to act if I make a character that's specifically match to my own abilities I'm screwed. And if an able-bodied actor wants to limit themselves by putting themselves in a role where they can't do something like look at what they're supposed to be looking at or whatever else that's perfectly fine as well. I don't want to be trapped in an identity, I want to have a wide range of options and not be typecast for particular roles because those would be the only things I'd even be allowed to be considered for. and maybe the best actor for a roll or job isn't going to be somebody who fits that identity perfectly but somebody who can portray the character. Maybe that actor will have them lined up identity that matches but maybe they won't that's the whole point of acting. This happens everywhere else is well, actors are calves to look nothing like the way I character is described, or even the same gender as the character in question. Heck these days people aren't even trying to match appearance like they used to. If we're going to have that wide range of options and everything else we should have it here too. I am more than just a blind white passing native American fifth gender neurodivergent female youth, and I should definitely be allowed to play something that isn't specific to that group of identifiers. And so should everybody else.
No, cause there are far far far more able bodied roles so it's easy for an able bodied actor to find another able bodied role. If there are 100 roles and 1 disabled role, then the disabled actor will either be competing against every other disabled actor for that 1 role, or they will have to go for the able bodied role. The bale bodied actor, however, can go for any of the 99 roles, and if they take the 1 disabled role then every disabled actor is now screwed over as the chance of them getting hired for the able bodied role is extremely slim. The situations aren't comparable. Also, disabled people are well aware of what an able bodied life is like even if they don't live it, as they are surrounded by able bodied people and most fictional charatcers are able bodied, that isn't the case for able bodied people knowing about disabled people (a lot of times when able bodied people portray disabled folk it ends up as a steryotype for this reason).
Can't forget the good old "Milky white eyes = Blind" trope...
I mean the character could just have cateracts or glaucoma I'm told they're eyes actually look like that,
Anyway it makes sense to have a visual shorthand for a sighted audience. Otherwise we actually would have to just draw attention to it or explain it so that people would get it if they couldn't notice just by watching.
What annoys me is when this trope shows up in written media. In a movie it's an acceptable visual cue, in a book it is just a lazy trope, either having milky white or glossy blue eyes without explaining if it's due to cataract or glaucoma which you can actually do in a book.
And nystagmus would be a much cooler visual shorthand they'll probably harder to pull off
I think the prelevance in visual media has just caused even authors to assume that blind people usually have milky white eyes.
I see where it comes from, as eyes do change when blind a little. They can get a little lighter but not go milky white.
@@lahlybird895I did not know about nystagmus until now; it does look like a neat shorthand for blindness, especially as an artist myself! (Dunno if I can actually make one just bc I haven't finished a personal creation like that in a while now, but still!) :)
@FurKid_the_Gg_roo_99 yeah most people don't know about it it's not brought up again pale blue white milky unfocused eyes are the common shorthand and people don't always look into the other ideas to research
It would definitely be cool and something like a movie about or an animation
the last point in the video is kind of interesting because, in my opinion at least, it's a good thing that stems from a bad thing. It just feels to me like the reason the creators were comfortable to just let Chirrut be disabled and didn't over-explain it, was *because* of the tropes he represented. as in, the "blind martial artist who is still a badass" trope is so widespread and well known to the audience it's almost more shocking if it doesn't happen. so the creators probably felt they don't need to explain anything about Chirrut except that 1) he's a great fighter and 2) he's blind; expecting the audience to fill in the rest based on their familiarity with the archetype
You know, the part about painting a whole group with the same brush is really on point for me. Many tend to think that, just because i am authistic, i am sweet, innocent and could never lie or trick, even if I am capable of doing both things😂.
Oh my god fr!
The "But then we'd have to think about accessibility!" argument is the worst, as it's an open acknowledgement that they have no intention of hiring anyone with that disability in *any* capacity.
I had an infuriating 2h argument with a doctor once about the cost-effectiveness of providing for "special needs" (his word for communication access) in *hospitals.* He was clearly unfamiliar with the concept of disabled employees/providers in healthcare.
“Look for The Force... and you will always find me... The Force is with me... and I am one with the Force.”
- Chirrut Îmwe, Blind Force Sensitive
“Don't mistake his lack of eyesight for a lack of vision.”
- Baze Malbus on the subject of Imwe’s blindness
The blind sage trope is also probably a reference to Tiresias, the blind prophet in Greek mythology. He was given future-vision as compensation for Hera destroying his sight and is often called on for wisdom and advice. Fun fact: Tiresias also lived as a woman for 7 years after hitting some snakes.
Yes, I would agree that Tiresias was probably the origin of the trope!
One thing I want to point out is, in regards to the ‘blind sage’ trope, chirrut is far from the only character in Star Wars to have that kind of wisdom and spirituality. Many of the Jedi in other instalments of the Star Wars story have similar qualities to Chirrut in that regard and, while he’s not a true Jedi, Chirrut is somewhat Jedi-adjacent. The way Chirrut falls into the ‘blind sage’ trope is similar to how he falls into the ‘disability superpower’ trope; Chirrut has those qualities because he’s written to be similar to a Jedi. We’ve seen both abled and disabled Jedi that have those characteristics before.
(Although there are certainly questions to be asked about why the blind character specifically was chosen to be force sensitive)
Simple way of answering that question
Simply ask the opposing question of if he would still have been for sensitive if he wasn't blind if the answer is probably then it wasn't a specific choice that he's blind it's just something that came later but he was still would have been the same character
I can't ask her answer that question I barely know anything about starwars lol
@@lahlybird895given the inspiration for star wars is the Japanese samurai film (and old Westerns and Flash Gordon) and that draws from the same narratives that the blind sage trope is originally from it may be he was self consciously written as an iteration of that trope.
@@seekingabsolution1907 that's entirely possible, although that makes me curious what the character was going to be like before the actor made the decision to have him be blind
@@seekingabsolution1907 And there's also the question of Kanan Jarrus, a character from the Rebels show- a padawan (Jedi squire/apprentice, essentially) who survived Order 66- and in the show, was blinded but was still Force-Sensitive and had to overcome the loss of his sight. (FYI, the episode where he was blinded aired earlier in the year that Rogue One premiered)
Which can lean into the samurai/Japanese inspired source material, or provide a second example of a Force sensitive (but not Jedi) character being... reabled(?) via the mystical side of Star Wars.
I think the character as is could have worked as just a beggar who turns out to be a martial arts master and Force psychic. Making him blind just added that element to him.
I'd be curious of your top 10 worst and best disabled character tropes, and the media that portrays them the worst or best.
1:11 "Disney's Star Wars universe is such a juggernaut" - MOOD!
Ah, Oakwyrm the Platypus! Your timing is indeed impeccable - and by impeccable I mean COMPLETELY PECCABLE!
Regarding the "I'm too bi to not appreciate Kenobi" thing, in case you didn't know there's a new-ish book where Obi-Wan questions his sexuality at one point. Personally I headcanon him as bi because Sir Alec Guinness was
Chirrut is all the more meaningful but also agonizing when you remember that this is also the movie with Saw Gerrera, and Saw’s respiratory disability is used as shorthand to parallel him with Vader.
Wait, it was?
I admit my memory of Rogue One is sketchy at best, but the only issue I remember having with that character is that he only showed up twice
@@TheShapeshifter100 Yes, it was. Saw's character arc was always intended to be a light-side mirror to Vader's fall, ever since he and his sister were introduced in Clone Wars. His respiratory issues are from exposure to the same toxins that were used by the Empire to exterminate the Geonosian species, IIRC.
@@LexYeen ahhh, okay, thanks for taking the time to explain that
Saw is a menace. I haven't forgiven him for what his actions led to in the Bad Batch season 2 finale.
Listening to the disability tropes you have brought up in your video, I can't help but draw similarities to the many limited, tired tropes Asian actors were forced into in Western media. This includes the "martial artist master" and the "wise old mentor" which Chirrut unfortunately falls into.
Even so, he managed to go above the racial stereotypes we were so used to. Chirrut's sense of humour had helped a lot in differentiating him from one-note tropes, which I appreciate as a Chinese (I do not speak for others, this is just my opinion). And seeing that a disabled person like you also appreciate Rogue One's potrayal of Chirrut in terms of disability, it makes me happy.
I would love to hear your thoughts on The Bad Batch and how it handled neurodivergent representation on one of the main characters.
Knowing that Donnie Yen asked specifically for Chirrut to be blind honestly makes Caine's blindness in John Wick 4 feel even weirder than the already weird vibes I got from it initially.
I agree, Caine pushed the bar pretty low. The only minor saving grace is that none of the major players in the show are played as simply human.
Regarding the idea of it being difficult to find a blind Asian actor.
When they were casting the main trio for The Force Awakens they held massive casting calls in multiple countries with each location processing thousands of people. I went to the one in Ireland.
If they can afford and coordinate the logistics for that I think narrowing down the field would actually be easier and cheaper.
it's one of those cases where if Rogue One existed in a context with a lot more and more diverse disability rep, it's flaws wouldn't even be anything to write home about, I feel.
And the other Force sensitive who's blind but mystics around it happened the same year, (though for Kanan, the blindness was injury based, not... wait, I'm not sure if Chirrut was born blind or it occurred later...)
The most frustrating thing is that with Chirrut and Kanan, the Star Wars universe has established a way to have blind characters who are still functionally blind but are easier to understand in terms of how they interact with the world than having to explain how real blind people really learn to navigate without sight, and still they haven't made any more major blind characters. Like, a blind, probably force-sensitive pickpocket intelligence operative who apologizes for running in to targets because, "of course I couldn't see where I was going. I'm blind, you asshole," is a character waiting to be written.
Also, "Oh, this is a zone for authorized personnel only? I'm sorry. I must have gotten turned around. Could someone lead me out? I didn't see the signs because I'm blind," all after having gone around planting explosive charges in the area. They have the option for disabilities to work FOR the stories they tell so much but then don't use it at all.
fun fact at least in legends There is an entire race that are just human except for they literally don't have eyes They all see with the force
Andor is a genuinely fantastic science fiction show, so you've gotta watch that. I know Bad Batch has Channel Reasons that put it on your todo list and Disney's ever flowing content farm is fatiguing, but you've gotta watch Andor.
I was going to jokingly suggest looking at Doctor Loveless from the Wild Wild West movie for an example of disability representation, because that movie was kind of terrible and the villain especially so. But when I looked him up to check that I got the name right, I discovered that the original Loveless from the show was portrayed by a little person, and now I'm kind of swirling down a vortex of problematic. Did they intentionally take a character who was half as tall as the average adult and replace him with a character who is literally half of an adult man?
God Wild Wild West is so bad.
IIRC, there was some information in a visual dictionary(?) for Rogue One that elaborated that Chirrut's staff also has a proximity sensor in the head, which I thought was a neat and very plausible example of an assistive technology. Though the example with him walking out into a firefight isn't necessarily force use; it's not unknown for a firefight to leave someone unscathed, and tactically the deathtroopers may be focusing on the people shooting back, and not the apparently crazy guy walking out in the open until he starts messing with something important that they need to stop.
One disabled character I would love to hear thoughts on is Sal Fisher A.K.A Sally Face. He’s a character in an indie psychological horror & mystery video game called Sally Face. He’s nicknamed that because that’s what his bullies called him so he just adapted the name for himself so no one can use it against him anymore. While the game mostly touches on the paranormal mysteries of the apartment he & his dad live in, Sally does have conversations with other characters about his prosthetic & you can even go through a series of puzzles to uncover the mysteries of what happened to Sal’s face. That’s all I feel comfortable saying without spoiling too much about the story in case you want to check it out yourself
I do think a certain wisdom comes from being a minority. We're already judged for stupid reasons so we question more why other things are judged. (this can also affect empathy) But this wisdom being mostly written for blind characters is... weird....
He was definitely my favorite character from Rogue One. Really wanted him to live so he could appear again. I get why. Everyone else died. But I would've been fine with him and Baze survived.
There's a blind guy on TikTok who goes surfing, so I kind of feel like the "character needs to do things a disabled person couldn't" is really blatantly a cop out.
If I had a nickel for every time Donnie Yen played a Blind Baddass style character...
If you wanna learn about some more famous blind people, there is The Blind Surfer and Sam Langford who was blinded on 1 eye almost blind on the other and was still able to become a boxing champion with about 100 wins.
I don't know many blind people so please add names in the comments
To add some names :)
-Molly Burke (Actress,author , motivational speaker ,activist ,RUclipsr/influencer)
-Haben Girma(Human Rights Lawyer advocating for disability justice )
-Shayla Brown (Actress)
-Alicia Grace (Motivational speaker)
-The Blind Hippie (Animal rights attorney, artist and advocate)
-M1nerva The M1st1c(Digital creator, independent peer specialist)
-Paul in the duo Mathew and Paul(Artist ,Podcaster)
-Ramya Amuthan(Producer / cohost within AMI)
-Kelly MacDonald(Producer, radio host and overall staple of AMI,in my opinion :) )
I know there's people that I'm missing but right now it's early in the morning and my brains not fully remembering everyone. From someone who is legally blind above represents a good snapshot of the community. The people above may all be blind but they also hold many intersectional identities within that.
@Supreme_Pinecone Okay, glad I looked up Hemmer's actor's name, because I was just about to dupe your comment... =p
I think the whole blind character with super human senses/extraordinary wisdom thing is lessened because thats just kinda how most experience jedi are in starwars.
The most emotional Star Wars moment I watched was Jedi Night. Though the eye changing thing...
Jedi Survivor has a disabled villain. I watched a bit of gameplay videos.
The pilot in Jedi Survivor, Greez, is disabled and has a robotic arm, it's not really commented on that much, and he has 4 arms. He loses it in a tie-in comic.
But yeah, the main villain Dagan Gera is missing an arm. Not great.
I thought you made a video on Chirrut now because Donnie Yen played ANOTHER BLIND FIGHTER in John Wick just 3 months ago! It's almost a pattern for him by now.
...well then!
No I did not know that, but given Chirrut being blind was his idea in the first place I can't say I'm exactly surprised?
@@Oakwyrm I'm grateful for your videos :)
I am actually quite curious about his portrayal in John Wick. It feels different to other "blind badasses" (but I am able-bodied, so don't take my word for it). During his scenes he sometimes uses his cane to move around and in one scene he uses audio motion sensors around a room so he can tell where enemies are. ...and in other scenes he just accurately shoots people so... shrug.
I don't know, at best the blind moments might be faithful but at worst they might feel like parody.
If it means anything he's a nice character with a nice ending more or less (considering the assassin movie genre). Nice as in he's not a villain, he doesn't really want to be there, but has to do a job.
@@Oakwyrm It seems that the circumstances around the creation of Caine (Donnie Yen's character in John Wick Chapter 4) were different from Chirrut Imwe. This is what I've read from the articles around it, so please take it with a grain of salt.
It looked like Caine had been written to be blind from the very start, taking inspiration from the popular Japanese fictional character Zatoichi who's a blind swordsman. Something to note is that said character reportedly went by a different (and more racially stereotypical) name in the early stages before Donnie Yen asked the director to change it, but there had been no suggestion that the name "Caine" itself came from the actor.
Regardless, as much as I, a Chinese, appreciate Donnie Yen's contribution towards making the role less racially stereotypical, the fact remains that the creators of John Wick casting him in the first place (after he had played a blind character before) is inexcusably and outright casting an able-bodied actor in a disabled role, more so than the complicated casting of Chirrut Imwe.
This really reminds me of most of the problems in that one episode of Angel.
4 blind characters, all the tropes. Season 1 I think
I've never seen this movie, only very dimly knew this character existed, but I listen anyway. Thank you for the insight
I wrote this a while back after watching your videos and you mentioned that people don't sleep with their prosthetics. I hope you like it. A character is original to me and I created a long time ago.
-Mac Trem’s Morning Routine: Trem wakes up, his right and only eye is fuzzy. He rubs it with his right hand and swings his legs out of bed. He removes his eye patch and puts it on the nightstand built into the wall and floor. He picks up his cybernetic left eye from its charging port. He plugs it into his eye socket and it comes to life. Now with his vision restored, he gets up and walks a few steps to his cybernetic left arm. He removes the sock from his left arm that covers his connecting port. Trem had accidentally cut himself on the metal in his sleep before and had to improvise. He picks up his left hand and connects it to his arm. It clicks into place and he moves the fingers and hand around experimentally to test the connection. Satisfied, he gets dressed in his New Republic uniform and clips his lightsaber to his belt. He exits his quarters and the door closes behind him. On the door in aurebesh it reads ”Captain Mac Trem” with “Captain’s Quarters” below it.
There is always one~ You mentioned the non-timeliness of this episode, and I just finished relistining to an episode of the podcast Never Tell Me The Pods where two of them debate whether Chirrut is Force Sensitive or not (ep 35). And throughout the conversation, I was thinking I needed to check in to see what any of the people I watch who are more in depth with disability have to say. So perfect timing for specifically me!
(The person saying Chirrut may not be Force Sensitive basically has the take that the Force acts through Chirrut like it does with Han, with the main difference being that Chirrut believes in the Force and his role in it, and let's the Force do its thing. Even if he can't sense the Force, he knows it is working through him, and he chooses to go along with it. The other person comes from the same "Of course he uses the Force" points that you brought up)
I know this is extremely off topic but I can't figure out what the flag in your picture is? I've tried looking it up but I can't find it anywhere. is it just a color changed nb flag for aesethetic pourposes or does it have a specific meaning?
@@pumpkinSennar Yup, the Evil Enby flag. It made its meme rounds a few years ago, and it just fits with me and my username xD
If u haven't watched it I recomend Kenobi it's probably my favourite thing in the universe also Reva is such a good character and I don't get why the fandom hates her.
You could at least spell Kenobi right. Way you’ve spelled it reminds me of My Immortal.
@SorowFame sorry I'm really bad at spelling I've edited it now 😅
@@SorowFame You mean that runaway clone, OB1?
I think most people didn't like her beacuse of her knowledge of "Anakin Skywalker = Vader" before anybody else
This video is great, thanks so much for breaking down Chirrut's character and the casting for him! He was one of my faves.
"But it's not impossible to find disabled actors. Do a casting call. Take a tisk on filling a role with a less recognisable name in favour of a better fit for the character." This, in my opinion, is the most important of your video. Reminded me of Netflix casting Freddy Carter, an actor who isn't a cane user, to play Kaz Brekker in Netflix's Shadow and Bone. I gotta say, knowing Freddy isn't a cane user undermined every single one of Kaz's scenes, especially the combat ones, in S2. Literally at one point thought "oh well an abled actor is doing this so it doesn't fit Kaz." Awkward since the author, Leigh Bardugo, is a cane user herself. Wish they'd just cast a cane user for Kaz, it would've worked.
Ah, rogue one. The only Star Wars film to ever gain more of a reaction from me than "haha funny line".
I wasn’t a huge fan of Rogue One, but Chirrut and Blaze were definitely one of the highlights from the movie imo.
Also speaking of Star Wars and disabled characters, have you heard of Tenel Ka (from the books)? She was (and still is) one of my fav all-time Star Wars characters bc how badass and cool she was.
Anyway, I’m curious what your perspective is on her and what tropes/stereotypes she might embody that I didn’t really think about before (that is, if you’ve heard of her)
Its bonkers to me whenever people try and cite the "accommodation," concern (again, as you said, usually put less politely). Like... studios have to accommodate the whims and needs of the more... "auteur" acting talent all the damn time. But theyll gladly dump money and effort into it all for the sake of keeping that actor on board. So its a blatantly ableist claim that a studio cant make accommodations for someone who literally NEEDS it, if theyre the right one for the job.
Honestly I work as a crew member in theater, it is not hard. Hollywood is full of shit. If a small community theater can make itself assessable then so can a million dollar studio
Some people who get no pictures of the world from their eyes can still "see" and in a world where the force exists, it makes it easy to have faith in that sense. Could even be mistaken for the force. Or maybe make the force easier to tap into.
Just hard to be certain of this good faith argument with so many other critiques around the character
Johnny Depp is blind in one eye and near sighted in the other. Ironically he probably kept it to himself for years so he wouldn't be type cast. I still prefer Donnie Yen in this role over Johnny Depp.
Nice, super late here where I live, but it's Oakwyrm and Star Wars, I just have to watch it.
You know, I'd like to see a vid done on Ignis from late stage FF15
Great video! Rogue One has become such a classic it's always timely. Even if it's in 12 years from now, I would like to hear your thoughts on the Bad Batch. Not just about disability, but one of the characters gives me a trans vibe. Disney will never confirm them but they get me every time.
I mean, for a bunch of clones, who are all supposed to have the same (expressed) genetic structure (essentially Artificial Identical Clones, en masse), Omega seems... to stand out, _for some reason_ .
I don’t even know anything about Star Wars I just like this guy’s videos tbh
youve taught me so much man. ur so fucken awesome.
Hope you consider doing a video on Viktor from Arcane, including tackling the concept of “glorious evolution” - a concept he (a disabled man) made up in which all disabilities could & should be addressed via shimmer/hextech.
Love your vids!
Can't wait to hear your thoughts on The Batch, especially one specific character
Hi, Viktor, loved the video. I was wondering if you have any plans to cover a Mad Max film eventually?
I've been missing ur videos!!Thank you for the new video! Will you ever make another video about DC (or one of their characters) ? anyway, have a good day
For once,I gotta agree with a video put out on this channel. This video seemed way less whiny than usual and actually made some valid points.
This is really left feild but can you look at disability in one piece, its really long but it has a lot of disabled and scarred characters and I want to know what you think about their treatment
I'm not shure I agree about the blind sage trope. I think the idea that not focusing on what's right in front of you allows you to understand realty better holds a lot of spiritual merit, and sight is often (and in my opinion justifiably) viewed as the most straightforward and "superficial" of the senses, capable of overwhelming with what's in plain view and distracting form less intuitive truths. its less about how all blind people are wise but rather how the sage had an easier time achieving wisdom thanks to their disability. that being said the trope does suffer from the same problems many other tropes about minorities suffer from, that being that we see it more than normal blind people and never besides one.
It's been 6 years 😦
I thought he made a video on it because Donnie Yen played ANOTHER blind fighter in John Wick 4 a few months ago!
So what're your thoughts on Zatoichi the blind swordsman being played by a sighted actor?
Nice, super early.
For the record (personally lol) the Bad Batch is totally worth it, I haven't been keeping up on anything else and did fine, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Echo as amputee representation
The bad baslchvis my favorite Tech is my favorite
Oak, mind making a review on Olivia from Fear and Hunger: Termina? She's a wheelchair user, but I won't be going into detail why
When it comes disability I'll always remember the 1999 movie Revelation.....it's a very obscure Christian apocalypse movie, there's two side characters one blind and the other in in a wheelchair, the antichrist can give anything using virtual reality....the two disabled character betray the good guys and damn their soul to hell without a second thought.
Could you do the Ranking of kings next?
Am I the only one who ships Chirrut and Blaze
You are not, trust me
There's a whole tag for it on AO3, so you definitely aren't alone there 👍
....Doesn't *everyone* see Chirrut and Baze as and Old Married Couple??
15:15 - 15:22 I think the “Star Wars” universe could actually stand to accommodate a lot more disabled and also non-binary/trans characters just because of the nature of what kind of world it is, to be quite honest.
Would it be an example of a 'bury your disabled' trope if a disabled character dies in a story, while there's another disabled character there too from the start? Does it matter if their disabilities are completely different?
Could you elaborate, please? That's too little information for me to really grasp what kind of story / character arcs you mean.
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 It's just a hypothetical, really, I thought that if the problem with the trope is that it erases disabled representation, than having another disabled character would solve that, but I could be wrong of course
Can I get your opinion on some anime episodes that deal with disability?
Do you have anything in mind? I'm also looking for disability representation in anime 🙂 He has a video on Fullmetal Alchemist, who's the most famous one probably, but some other known ones are Nunnally from Code Geass, maybe Gildarts Clive from Fairy Tale, and I hear good things about Violet from Violet Evergarden and Bojji from Ranking of Kings.
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig episode 11 and Mushishi episode 20
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 I tend to find that anime protagonists are generally neurodivergent coded.
PLEASE do rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles!!!!
(please no one laugh I know it's a long title and it's ninja turtles)
but Oakwyrm if u do this know that you're not in for the quality of a bad barbie movie like someone would expect from ninja turtles,
you're in for ducktales writing meets literally Ben Schwartz (again and his character is wearing blue Again) with fight scenes choreographed quality of ATLA and animated the quality of owl houses best animation fluidity moments.
Translation: THE BEST ANIMATED FIGHTS IN HISTORY I SAID WHAT I SAID.
if u won't do the whole show atleast do the netflix movie.
yes there's a movie and the best I can describe how good it is is by doing this:
DJDJCBRBDJSOCCNWOCKTBYOVPANQJCK NTJEICJWPAKCJDHFJ!!!!!!!!
(Seriously the fight scenes in both show & the movie are SO good that all I can do in reaction at this point is sit back and make noises😵💫)
and if you're STILL not convinced on the show Donnie (Donatello) has autism this time around and u can do a video about that.
Imagine if an actor made a particular choice for their character, the people in charge actually agree to the choice about that character, then they decide to recast the role to get a actor who fits the new choice made for the character that was made by the original actor... Like wow that would be hugely disrespectful.
So I'm going to speak as somebody who was blind and somebody who kind of wants to get into the media fields.
Various one more reason to be opposed to disabled actors playing a disabled characters exclusively that you didn't list.
If able-bodied actors can't play disabled characters doesn't work with family in reverse? Because by extension wouldn't that mean that disabled actors can only play at disabled characters in order to avoid a double standard?
The whole point of acting is to play different roles, sometimes those rules will be a lot like how you are in real life and sometimes they're going to be very very different which is the whole point of acting in the first place.
Is there is not a lot of fun characters if I'm only going to be allowed to act if I make a character that's specifically match to my own abilities I'm screwed. And if an able-bodied actor wants to limit themselves by putting themselves in a role where they can't do something like look at what they're supposed to be looking at or whatever else that's perfectly fine as well.
I don't want to be trapped in an identity, I want to have a wide range of options and not be typecast for particular roles because those would be the only things I'd even be allowed to be considered for. and maybe the best actor for a roll or job isn't going to be somebody who fits that identity perfectly but somebody who can portray the character. Maybe that actor will have them lined up identity that matches but maybe they won't that's the whole point of acting.
This happens everywhere else is well, actors are calves to look nothing like the way I character is described, or even the same gender as the character in question. Heck these days people aren't even trying to match appearance like they used to.
If we're going to have that wide range of options and everything else we should have it here too.
I am more than just a blind white passing native American fifth gender neurodivergent female youth, and I should definitely be allowed to play something that isn't specific to that group of identifiers. And so should everybody else.
Æ
Wow I'm so early lol
So what you're saying is that this actor's dream was to play a _blind_ badass martial artist? Sounds kinda...
He's barely force sensitive
If a abbled body person plays a disabled character bad
Does that mean
Disabled person playing as abbbled body character also bad???
No, cause there are far far far more able bodied roles so it's easy for an able bodied actor to find another able bodied role. If there are 100 roles and 1 disabled role, then the disabled actor will either be competing against every other disabled actor for that 1 role, or they will have to go for the able bodied role. The bale bodied actor, however, can go for any of the 99 roles, and if they take the 1 disabled role then every disabled actor is now screwed over as the chance of them getting hired for the able bodied role is extremely slim. The situations aren't comparable.
Also, disabled people are well aware of what an able bodied life is like even if they don't live it, as they are surrounded by able bodied people and most fictional charatcers are able bodied, that isn't the case for able bodied people knowing about disabled people (a lot of times when able bodied people portray disabled folk it ends up as a steryotype for this reason).