WF-51: A Swiss Intermediate-Cartridge Copy of the FG-42
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
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After World War Two the Swiss needed a new self-loading military rifle to replace their K-31 bolt actions. Two major design tracks followed; one being a roller-delayed system based on the G3 at SIG and the other being a derivative of the German FG-42 at Waffenfabrik Bern. Bern, under the direction of Adolph Furrer, had been experimenting with intermediate cartridges since the 1920s, and they used this as a basis to develop an improved FG-42 using an intermediate cartridge (7.5x38mm). The program began in 1951 and went through about a half dozen major iterations until it ultimately lost to the SIG program (which produced the Stgw-57).
Today we are looking at one of the first steps in the Bern program, the WF-51. The most substantial change form the FG42 design here is the use of a tilting bolt instead of a rotating bolt like the Germans used. It is a beautifully manufactured firearm, and a real pleasure to take a look at...
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this rifle! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
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You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
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The best way to describe Swiss arms manufacturing tradition is to point out they made a *milled* version of the MG42.
Mg 51. Still in production and still in use on vehicles and in fortresses.
@@no1DdCnot in production any more and also only used in vehicles nowadays.
Another way to describe it is that none of their infantry guns were ever really used in combat.
@@francismacomber4650 Switzerland is a weapons exporter, selling $770 million in arms last year.
@@francismacomber4650militaries use SIG everywhere 😭
“Nothing says expensive like combing FG42 and Swiss”. Nailed it.
Am Swiss. Can confirm.
Furrer showing tremendous constraint by not making a Toggle Locked FG-42 copy.
He was getting old by that point, losing his steam.
I'm still surprised he didn't try to make a toggle-locked howitzer.
@@AtholAndersonlet's get some toggle locked battleship guns
A toggle locked switchblade. Now that's a challenge.
The guy had quite the unfortunate name
How the the selector works:
The block which is welded to the sear now holds the sear parallel to the fire control group, while before it was pivoted horizontally by the fire selector´s catch pin, for that the locking holes go through, into the fire control group.
Selector is switched forward to single: Pin pushes the front of the sear to the right, disconnect is in the bolt´s way and gets pushed out the way.
Selector is switched backwards to full: Pin pushes the front of the sear to the left, disconnect is out of the bolt´s way and does nothing.
Thanks you. This didn't make sense until I saw the footage around 12:30, which (with your explanation) makes the disabled pivoting mechanism pretty clear.
This comment needs to be pinned, thank you!
this is it
i was about to post that but not as well formatted and simpler explanation. thank you for the better explanation post.
And what means „M“?
that muzzle brake is a beauty
It looks so bulky, expensive and complicated.
@@rubiconnnas it should
@@liamanthonyalanpearson3419 ehhh
@@rubiconnn 100% way to much shop/ tool time wasted on that. especially for a intermediate cartridge, for 8mm, ok yeah maybe it was necessary lol
A Dr. Zarkov (Flash Gordon) patent!
Published 25 seconds ago, good lord.
But a Swiss FG-42 Assault Rifle? Worth dropping in right away for.
Being a Swiss gun I love how it looks crude on the outside but beautiful on the inside
Just like you are.
@@no1DdC stop it youuuu 😊
FG-42 and Johnson videos were what got me into your videos, so this is very welcome
Schweiz FG made by the international timekeepers. What is not to like about this fine machinery
Same bro 🎉
"This spring steel, well, spring..." , a very Austin Powers vibe there. That stuff is part of why I have been watching for so many years.
"ALLOW MYSELF TO INTRODUCE...myself."
Timestamp?
..made you RANDY?
And then the M marking, which stands for M... something
The spring here is made of spring
It's always delightful when you can see Ian just nerding the heck out, like a kid bouncing in his seat.
Ian’s joy and excitement is so infectious in a positive way :)
I never managed to find it again, but in some really old Q&A or interview or something, Ian once said something along the lines of "it's always fun to watch / be around people who are talking about something they're passionate about". I wish I had the actual quote, but it was a really nice, and true, sentiment. :)
The WF-51 is undoubtedly THE best variant of the FG-42, a very exquisite gun to look at. The gun may have not won the trials but it surely left a very good impression for firearm collectors.
I really do love this channel because every weapon is a window into the past. It’s so cool to try to understand how people were thinking about conflict or sporting and how that guided and shaped their weapons design.
Regarding the welded trigger group: I could imagine that "easy conversion into a semi-automatic" was one of the requirements for the new gun and therefore part of the testing process.
Swiss soldiers are offered a chance to buy their service arms at a low price after their term has ended. This sale is governed by the similar rules as other gun purchases. For instance, the buyer will need an appropriate gun acquisition license. Back then, weapons law was handled by the individual states making up the swiss confederation (since ~2000 we have a federal weapons law). I can imagine that even back then, in most states the licence to aquire a fully automatic rifle (nowadays a "collecter" license) would have been more difficult to aquire than the license for a bolt-action (nowadays schmitt rubins can be bought by anyone 18+) or semi-automatic rifle (nowadays for those you need criminal background check showing that you have no convictions for violent/gun related crimes). Therefore, if the army where to introduce a fully auto service arm, the soldiers would not have been able to easily buy their service arms after service, making the whole "militia" thing more difficult. It was therefore probably deemed important, that the new service rifle could easily and effectivly be converted to semi-automatic.
Truth be told, THIS is the gun the Swiss army should have adopted in the 1950s. This is a true assault rifle, unlike the battle rifle - BAR hybrid that the Stgw 57 ended up being (although that was cool too and quite unique, no other Cold War army had anything quite like it).
What sunk the WF-51 was the military requirement to keep the full-power GP 11 (for logistic reasons, but also because the very influential shooting clubs did not trust the intermediate cartridge‘s performance and accuracy at 300m). Still, a full-power version was developed (and Ian will make a video about it), and that should have been just as good as the FG-42. So I‘m sure we‘ll hear about why it ultimately lost to the AM-55 (which became the Stgw 57) in the upcoming video.
Shooter living in Switzerland. When I attend with my SIG 550 my friend calls me using a “Luftgwehrli” (little air gun). Because up to today “rifle” means StGw57 and GP11, of course. Because Swiss ;-)
@@daskrokodil4584 Interesting. Already during World War II, the Germans considered the FG 42 with a short cartridge, but Goering did not agree. But apparently in the case of specific mountain conditions, the use of powerful cartridges makes sense, because the mountains often force (or encourage) long-distance shooting. I have no experience in shooting in such terrain, but when I am a tourist in the mountains, I often think: "It would be nice to shoot far away, at the other, opposite mountain."
Right on...this combines all my favorite things, Swiss, tilting bolt and intermediate cartridge
and the distinctive bolt handle :)
I can barely look at a gun in Australia, but I am nonetheless impressed with the quality of design and ease of maintenance of such a machine
German engineering crafted by the Swiss,what is not to like. Well done Ian.
The price.
12:25 My best guess about the fire control group is that it originally had its center pin run through a socket that would index slightly off center depending on where the auto switch catch hits the FCG on either side of the pivot point created by the socket. This biases the FCG left or right enough off axis to pull the sear disconnect into or out of position depending on the switches position. By welding it as one piece, they can eliminate the socketing affect/ slight axial movement and maintain the sear disconnect’s position regardless of the switches position, in this case semi-automatic.
Thanks again Ian for continuing to find us more very interesting stuff that we would have never known about if not for you.
I love Swiss guns so much, it's always a treat to hear about them!
Let’s be honest, it wasn’t a case of NATO not adopting an intermediate cartridge it was a case of the U.S. not wanting to adopt an intermediate cartridge and basically forcing NATO to follow their lead.
This. IIRC the FAL was originally designed for a British-developed .276 cartridge that had been mooted as early as 1913. Credit to FN for being able to upscale the design so well to 5.56x51.
@@alfazagato1455 *7,62x51 ;)
@@alfazagato1455ummm, 7.62mm NATO.
@@alfazagato1455 The .276'' cartridge, a full length cartridge, was designed to be used by the P.13, the proposed replacement for the SMLE, the P.13 was redesigned to fire .303'' and re-designated the P.14, later manufactured for the U.S. military in .30'' as the Model 1917, the FAL was originally designed to fire the .280'' Short, an intermediate round, that was also intended for the EM2, after the U.S. basically strong-armed NATO into accepting 7.62x51 FN were able to modify the rifle to accept the new round, something that Enfield were unable to do with the EM2.
That seems correct. In addition, the U.S. went to many lengths to get its own ammunition adopted. The rare exception is the 9mm cartridge.
Apart from that, for heavy machineguns there goes the 50BMG, for light machineguns goes the .308, for rifles goes the .223. Not to mention countless weapons systems other than small arms.
The woodwork is insane, all this thing is so insanely swiss!
What an insanely cool gun. It's so Swiss. Good video.
Germany: "We over-engineer and over-machine to a ludicrous degree."
Swiss: "Hold my cuckoo clock."
Cuckoo clocks are from Germany.
Cuckoo clocks are also from Germany.
that's a german clock too, coming from the black forest area.
@@10010110100102Error Swiss = German improved.
P.S. Your username is hilarious! 😆
@@10010110100102Error yes that's not one of our things pretty rare actually in Switzerland
i actually have one of the cartridges for this rifle, been looking for so much more info and I'm glad there is a full vid on this now
I've seen pictures of this thing before, but never a video of it, thanks so much for it!
This is my personal fav video in years. What a cool gun. Great find, great video. Excellent as always!
That’s a hell of a lot of work into a firing pin. It looks amazing
Yeah. I believe the spring on the side was called a leaf spring. At least that was what we called it on the M60 back in the day.
Isn't the leaf spring the one You'd find on a car/truck suspension?
@BobSaint it's a category
Okay that is indeed rather cool. I would love to try something in that format in intermediate cartridge.
As for the trigger, I have an idea about that. The Swiss have a habit of converting their weapons to semi-auto before sending them home with the solider after training. This trigger group may have been a test to how they would do that.
Royal Armouries sure has unique Collection,and thank you sir for the lesson.
This is an insanely cool gun
I think all of us would love to hit the range and run that gun for a while. Neat piece. Thanks for the video.
Beautiful thing, Thanks to you & the Royal Armouries for giving us a tour of its innards.
Such an incredibly beautiful piece of history.
Never heard of the 7,5x38. Like the .280 British (7x43), it's what could have been.
Thank you Ian! No more will there only be a couple of black & white photos of this object available online!
One of my Dream guns from the Cold War, its just the right amount of post-war combat lessons and barely known prototypes
You are right. But it is great to see your enthusiasm!!!
Always liked the idea of firing modes switching between open bolt auto and closed bolt single.
"Doubt us at your Peril, young Ian!" Plenty of us are giddy to delirium with this Swiss Maid Masterpiece! More! More! Author! Author!
The machining complexity blows my mind, especially for the time period.
This is a piece I would really like to see you fire !! I have been fascinated by the FG-42 for 40 years and never seen this particular variation before.
Where're You gonna find the ammo?
@@BobSaint Wow. That's a good question. I assumed it was 8mm Kurz. Should have payed better attention. 7.35x38mm. Not gonna find that laying around just anywhere. Guess I'll have to keep waiting to see this one fired. LOL
Ah yes, Herr ‘Toggle-Lock’ himself 😂
Fg42 is one of my dream collector guns
That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen.
OK, I need to know about Furrer's toggle locked intermediate cartridge assault rifle. Because we're all thinking the same thing, "Look, you didn't *say* he designed one, but, come on! We *know* COL Toggle Lock wouldn't have missed the chance to toggle lock a true assault rifle. The man probably swapped out all the door latches in his house for toggle locks." 😂
A beautifull piece of Swiss jewelery, thanks Ian, i didn't know!
Can we give an extra round of applause to Ian for risking life and limb by entering battle island during civil war season.
THAT is one of my fave videos for sure...
I love Swiss weapons, even the bayonets
I love FG-42 and its derivatives. This one, in particular, I could almost say is a mix between an FG-42 and an StG-44.
@@leonardomafrareina7634 Well, that's basically what Ian told you in this video.
That's not an original thought of your own.
@@JanFWeh never said it was a thought of my own, fella, but I can see why Ian was saying it.
The tilting bolt is very similar to the BAR from what I see. When i battery the bolt has a toggle link that goes into a pressed in locking block. The 1918 BAR has a dovetailed one on the top of the receiver but it very similar to me. Anyone think of an earlier swinging toggle lock? Obviously we know the FG42 has Lewis gun roots
@@britjohnson1990 I've also noticed it. However, the safety and magazine scream StG-44 to me. The bolt being BAR based is really interesting, though.
@@leonardomafrareina7634 The STG44 has a lever selector safety that rotates 90 degrees to block the trigger from being pulled back but the knurled through button is the full auto selector on the STG
I shit you not. I was just thinking about how badly I wanted Ian to get his hands on any of the Swiss experimental FG-42 based rifles. I have been waiting for this video for years.
fingers crossed we get to see it at the range
Bloke on the Range is going to love this video.
12:43 There appears to be a pin or detent on the sear group that would be depressed by the stud on the fire selector in semi-auto, perhaps the modification has rendered that function always engaged, so the disconnector is being engaged in either position.
If you look at the sear group at 11:09, it appears that it is slightly angled to one side. The full-auto setting may have moved it to the other side, just enough to move the disconnect out of the way. The scallop at the bottom of the disconnect may be there so it has enough room to pivot. I suspect the piece that was ground off was the top of the fulcrum, around which the group pivoted. This is also the piece which holds the setting switch pin and you can clearly see that it has rounded edges to allow the sear group to pivot around it. It was welded into place to stop the sear group from pivoting, as well as a dent being put in the group to stop the switch from pressing on the back to move it. Of course, that's just my humble opinion.
I love how he casually presents an STG44 magazine.
I love anything FG42 related.
I'm slightly disappointed there is no shooting of this of the WF54 as I would like to see the performance compared to the originals.
The recoil springs appear longer while the spring loaded but stock and recoil buffer have been ommitted, this leads me to assume that the swiss version had closer to a continuous recoil system and didn't feel like the extra mechanism for the stock was needed.
Very cool, Never saw one before.
Ian is the GOAT
My guess for the full auto function is that the whole sear assembly tilted/twisted sideways, enough so the disconnector was out of the way. You can see there's enough space in the receiver front and back. The welded parts look like they had some rotation to allow that twist.
I'm guessing they had reliability issues and tried welding up some of the guns to see if that twisting mechanism was the source of the problem.
Judging from the shape of the selector and the fire control group it sounds pretty simple how it works. The central block seems to be a fixed point that the selector main pin keeps in place, and the selector end itself has a pin that protrudes into the receiver. That pin presses down on the fire control group in one of two directions. Forward pushes the semiauto disconnector in the path of the bolt carrier; full auto pulls it away. Since out-of-battery is prevented by the firing pin setup, no need to index the closing of the bolt to a hammer.
Since this whole sideways-tilting assembly was probably free and kept in place by the spring tension that pulls the fire selector into the receiver (hence why you have to pull it from its hole to move it), welding it down in one direction prevents the now-no-longer-free block from tilting even when the selector pusher is moved to the M (Maschinenfeuer) position, so moving it does nothing.
Toujours aussi intéressant ! 👌🏻
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the aesthetics of the sound of the phrase "toggle-locking"?
"Nothing says expensive like Swiss & FG42" - love it !
Oh one of the Swiss experimental rifles 😍
I am very confident that M for fullauto stands for "mitrailleuse" = French for Machinegun
M for More Dakka.
Or the M stands for Maschine, like Maschinengewehr, the german word for machine gun? It could also be "Mehrfeuer", "multiple fire" as opposed to "Einzelfeuer"
I love how the Swiss replace over complicated German parts with the "KISS" principal!
toggle lock kind of like an SKS/MAS49/56 with a toggle, how cool!
In the not-too-distant future, we should be able to 3D-print one of these.
If you have access to a metal 3D printer, you can already do it today. The cheapest ones I know of cost around 50 grand, but you'll probably have to splurge for a slightly larger and more precise model for this kind of job.
@@no1DdCgive it 7 years and I’ll be able to get one on prime day with free shipping
Hmmm I haven’t heard of this before, truly a forgotten weapon!
The disassembly definitely felt like the future StGw-57 the the lever on the underside of the stock, wood-wrapped metal, squarish receiver and all that
Wow...just wow...
Swiss arms never failed to amazed me.
Incredible! I love this thing
Fascinating. And very Swiss!
I remember hearing the Swiss had copied the FG 42 but never saw anything that proved it correct.
Didn't pretty much every nation with a domestic firearms industry look at German weapons post WWll. I am excluding those countries that were building licensed copies with no experience of domestic design work. One thing a lot of countries did as they began to industrialize was look at establishing their own firearms industry along with railroad networks. Building railroads if you produce any of the items domestically gets you a steel industry. Even if all you produce is your own rails. A domestic firearms industry is going to get you a core of trained machinists and tool makers that can then train others.
On another note. The first major consumer product that offered a precision made product was the wood pencil industry (1). First you have to form the cores from graphite and a bonding agent. These have to be quite uniform. Then the wood halves of the pencil body need to be machined in multiple bodies. The cores inserted and the halves glued together. The grooves for the cores need to be the proper depth. Too shallow and the body won't close. Too deep and the cores fall out. Another commercial product that relied early on precision machinery was the mass production of pins and sowing needles. Of course all of this. Indeed everything produced by an industrial process rests on a machine tool industry and national or international standards of measurement.
1) The author of On Walden Pond. His family owned a pencil factory.
When the FG-42 that we cook at home is said to be better
Remove the bulky bipod and I will agree.
Ian would appear to disagree.
Have you watched the entire video?
Watched the full video...I do not regret it. This is cool,
Everything Swiss is sexy. Even their cheese, chocolate, and Victorinox folding knives. Not just Swiss firearms.
And the women?
@@Compulsive_LARPer Just one of them?
Their trains are such a joy too.
@Compulsive_LARPer mmmmmm. I've lived and worked in Europe for several years. I am actually available again but, oddly, still madly in love with my now deceased wife.
@@Deliverygirl go for a swim! The water is fine. 🤣
As is seen at 8:32 the two cut-outs in the bolt carrier are somewhat offset to the left and to the right for the semi- and full-auto modes respectively.
There is a hole in the fire control group frame that corresponds to the "M" (full-auto) mode and a pin on the selector switch that pushes the rear part the sear assembly to the right through that hole.
As can be surmised from the view at 11:09, before that infamous modification, there sear used to pivot around the vertical axis. In full-auto position, it was all the way counter-clockwise with the front part pushed to the left side thus preventing the disconnector from engaging the bolt carrier.
Again, as seen at 11:09, there seems to be a torsion spring in the central axis piece that in "E" (semi-auto) mode made the sear turn clockwise thus putting the disconnector where it would engage the rear cut-out in the bolt carrier.
P.S. Having read an earlier comment (which is shorter and better than mine), I might be wrong about the torsion spring. There are actually two holes, the other one is for the "E" mode. So that the sear is pushed clockwise by the same selector pin.
I want one. Omg. It's amazing
It would cost a fortune but it's just an amazing little rifle. I'd love to have one too
Swiss manufacturing; elegant, complex, exquisite, and expensive
It's a shame intermediate cartridges were not fully appreciated when the Swiss engineered those magnificent rifles !
It's interesting how SIG basically got all the big wartime and postwar contracts and WF Bern was left holding the bag. In pistols, in rifles, in machine guns. Maybe they did get something.
Adoro os vídeos 😊.
Parabéns 👍👍
Damn those swiss watches kill ngl
I see the "beer keg" and swear one day I will get a K31!! I missed getting them when they were "cheap" like when I got my SKSs, and Swedish Mauser. I'm an "ammo curious" type of person and would like to see the 7.5x38mm cartridge!!😂
Vibe and a Half
Great piece
Good work
A real decent LMG attempt per It’s Time
Something most struggled with until the late 60s-70s
Nice
So BEAUTIFUL! I want it!
This is SUCH a “Buck Rogers” gun!
"I find your lack of toggle-lock disturbing."
- Adolf Furrer -
So cool, never heard of this thing
Video idea: discussion of the design philosophies behind different box magazine placements. Bottom, top, side, bull pup
The selector switch plunger presses on the rear of the fire control group which shifts the disconnector out of the path of the bolt. You can see on the side of the fire control group a small divot in the front portion for the fire control group to slot into and a mark on the rear where it applies pressure. I suspect during trials it was discovered that this method wasn't perfect and the gun would sometimes stop firing in full auto and fire multiple times in semi-auto.
The fixed fireselector was surely welded in place because it was neccesary by swiss laws to be transferable without a special permission to own full auto guns (Serienfeuerwaffen) was required. A semi auto could have been owned by having a regular registration card for...
This was back in the 50s. The whole SON stuff is a product of the 1999/2008 gun law revisions.
Sweet! It has the beehive muzzle brake. That is such an amazing design visually. I have one on my SMG repro FG-42. Don't know how well it works, but it sure looks cool!
Would be a nightmare to machine and drill, but who cares! It looks amazing! ^-^
Thanks for more great content.
The fire control group by itself in his hands at 12:06 looks like a c93 Borchardt
You mentioned never seeing a photo with a scope attached. In the book Standard Catalogue of military firearms, 2nd edition from Krause Publications, there is a photo of a STG 51, although it's listed as a Bern STG 54, with a scope attached, both a full profile of the rifle, and a close up of the top of the scope.
My favourite quote “Nothing says expensive like combining FG42, and Swiss!”