SIG PE-57: Swiss Roller-Delay!
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Want to see a shooting comparison of the PE-57 and the G3? Check out today's InRangeTV video:
• Timed Rifle Trials: St...
The SIG PE-57 is the civilian semiauto version of the Stgw57, Switzerland's first self-loading service rifle. Developed from the German MG-42 but incorporating a substantial influence form the FG-42 as well, the PE-57 is a roller-delayed blowback action chambered for the 7.5x55mm Swiss cartridge. It was also made for US commercial expoert as the SIG AMT (American Match Target), and sold to the militaries of Bolivia and Chile.
The PE-57 uses an in-line stock layout much like the FG-42, which minimizes muzzle climb, as well as a folding bipod which can be positioned at either the front or rear of the barrel shroud. The standard magazines hold 24 rounds. This rifle looks very awkward, but handles quite well, except for its rather heavy weight (12.25 pounds / 5.6kg). It is most at home in a fixed position, firing at long range targets from its bipod.
Only a few thousand of these rifles were ever imported into the US, and I would like to thank Bob for generously providing use of this one for video!
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![🥇 SG 550 (Swiss Army Rifle) to 500yds: Practical Accuracy [Stgw 90 - PE 90]](/img/1.gif)
It is not "forgotten". It stands beside my bed! Greetings from Switzerland!
'Weapons That Are Moderately Obscure Outside Of Central Europe' was too clunky.
volkult73 you can keep that bro I’ll stick to my light Fass 90
I can imagine a burglar coming in your house, and then you turn the lights on aiming your rifle at his head sayig some baddass sentence.
Have the bayonet too?
Kadir Like: "Wrong house, wrong guy?"
Being from Switzerland my grandfather used to shoot the K31, my father this one, the Stgw 57, I used the Stgw 90 (Sig 550). And they are now all in my gun safe :-)
That's too cool! Had a Swiss Freundin back in 99, and when I visited back there I got to check out her brother's 550 and her father's K31!
I own a G11, I Love it, best Rifle i have shot so far
Update, i got myself a Pio Bajonett and refitted it to go with my G11
I have the 96/11 of my Grandad, the K31 of my dad, my Fass57 I was handed originally and which I found by sheer fluke years later as I had to hand it back in 1990 when we got the Fass90.
So I have the three old ones as well as having the Fass 90 on loan as I am active with the ASSU/SUOG and keep on qualifying to keep it.
that feel when no Swiss Freundin 😟
Geile siech!
Swiss flag on the side is a big plus.
I should have expected to come a cross this.
hilarious
I wonder if the magazine has a corkscrew?
shut the fuck up hahahahahhaha
@@stephenschwake524 lol
I was trained on this very StGw 57 and still have this weapon today. As a member of the army you get this rifle and have this all your life. I still have mine today, I received it in 1976 when I joined the army. This assault rifle is very reliable, robust, indestructible and accurate. At 300 m you can hit a "target" without any problems. It is a very good positional weapon. The rifle also allows you to fire grenades (as a mortar) and you could also fire tank grenades. Easy to handle, reliable, almost no susceptibility to malfunction, I never had a malfunction during my whole service. And during more than 20 years of military service I always shot very often and very much. - Ich wurde genau an diesem StGw 57 ausgebildet und habe diese Waffe heute noch. Als Angehöriger der Armee bekommt man dieses Gewehr ausgehändigt und hat dies sein ganzes Leben lang. Ich habe meines heute noch, empfangen habe ich es 1976 als ich ins Militär eingerückt bin. Dieses Sturmgewehr ist sehr zuverlässig, robust, unverwüstlich und genau. Auf 300 m kann man ein "Ziel" problemlos treffen. Es ist eine sehr gute Stellungswaffe. Zudem erlaubt das Gewehr auch Granaten (als Minenwerfer) abzuschiessen und man konnte zudem Panzergranaten ebenso abfeuern. Einfach in der Handhabung, zuverlässig, fast keine Störungsanfälligkeiten, ich hatte während meiner ganzen Dienstzeit nie eine Störung. Und ich habe während mehr als 20 Jahren im Militärdienst immer sehr häufig und sehr viel geschossen.
Do you get a free rifle for a lifetime or do you have to pay something? Does everyone who joins the Swiss army get a rifle or just some of the members?
Ninaa Kari so now you have to pay to get the reciver modified to be only able to select single fire and its like 50 franks but you basicly get the weapon for free and the olt STGW 57 you got for free.
@@mariuskohler7097 thank you for the answer! That sound's amazing!
@@ninaakari5181 Each conscript gets his assault rifle and can keep it. As long as one is obligated to serve, one even got the so-called pocket ammunition in a rifle. That's how it was handled in my time. We never had a problem with it.
@@hallerhans8240 thank you for the answer! Pretty awesome!
I'm a simple swiss man, I see a swiss gun I upvote!
J. H. Genau so isches 👍🏻
same here äs isch scho toll das äs lüt im usland gibt, wo au freud hei a üsna gwehr. führner han ig über 57 gfluchät, wühls mühsamer gsi isch da cheib zu putzä aber hüt han ig s ä lieber aus 90.
i love it when ian gets all excited about a gun, he goes from cool calm and informative, then this child like excitement comes through in his voice! its brilliant! top vid as always my man
I have one that I use for sports shooting. Very accurate, you can spend thousands making it even more accurate by changing barrels, free floating barrel shroud, diopter sights, wooden grip and all that stuff.
There are even gun shops over here in Switzerland that modify these rifles to be DMR with rails and even AR15 buttstocks, some even shorten the barrel and make awesome "bolt gun" lookalikes called Stgw 57 - Commando.
Pricewise these are very cheap in Switzerland, you can basically buy one for as little as 200 CHF-300 CHF which is the same in USD. Unfortunately due to the EU gun laws, these rifles are at the risk of being banned.
J. F. L. Yeah like dynamics arme no?
There's also Wyssen Defence. They make the rails for example. But it's very expensive.
Brugger and thomet make rails too but again .... €€€
200-300 CHF? Jeez, last time I checked they were way more expensive here in Germany. And they're also hard to find.. I sooo wanna have one of those!
Oh by the way, mind elaborating why they are at risk of being banned? I have heard of some plans of changing the EU gun laws further, but I don't know why that puts these rifles at that risk.
This was my dads service rifle. I remember playing with it when I was a child (of course with no ammo or mag) and I almost had to stand on the charging handle to get it charged :) I was issued a STGW 90 when I was ready for my service. I hope you have a video out on it as well (searching right now). I loved everything about it. It shoots more accurate than a human could possibly shoot at 300m, so did my dad's rifle. Swiss army rifles are killer for accuracy. I wasn't the best shot but we Swiss have to go mandatorly shoot once a year. 20 rounds at 300m and we have to pass a certain point level. I usually hit 4 or 5 with 5 being the center. Competitive shooters have that center (which is about 2 inches) divided into another 10 levels. And that's with iron sights, no scopes allowed.
A neet trick with the 57: you can cycle the action by inserting a loaded mag and slamming the butt on the ground hard, basically just throw it on the floor (don't drop it of course and safety on is advised). The rubber butt dampens the impact enough so nothing breaks. We were discouraged to do this but it always workes fine as long as you're not too shy to really hit it hard. It's not of much practical use I guess but you can use the heavy bitch one handed (one of our Sergeants (Feldweibel) used to joke "if you run out of ammo you can still club an elephant to death with it").
Well, that "load action" also applies to the StGw. 90, if the Bolt is locked, you can drop the Rifle with its Butt against the ground or a wall and that will also release and load it. But it doesn't need that much force to do so, that actually happens a lot accidently if you place your rifle a bit to "hard" on a rifle stand i.e ;)
Sgt's the same world over......
A sergeant would be a Wachtmeister, Feldweibel is a Sergeant Major
Correct, for the correct function of the reloading you pull the locking bolt on the right side all the way back and then let go of it, rushing forward at high speed.
Many of you guide the bolt forward by hand, are amazed that the cartridge then jams.
And again .... Swiss shooters have locked the bipod in the rear position, for single fire ......... and in the front for series fire.
In order to have all types of fire, however, you had to turn the "white plate" on the right of the handle, everything can then be shot on black.
The plate was a safety feature so that you were safe in the shooting range that nobody suddenly shoots continuous fire.
The military man here in Switzerland has his army weapon at home and in full function, including with a full-size car.
Mehr zu diesem AusgangstextFür weitere Übersetzungsinformationen ist ein Ausgangstext erforderlich
Same thing we did in ak74s in military
The StG57 is my ultimate holy grail military rifle, period. Unfortunately even the civvie versions are _extremely_ rare and expensive here, let alone ever getting my hands on an actual StG57. I seem sadly destined to forever admire them from afar😭💔
Unless I win the Alabama Lottery, I will have to prioritize buying other things, like a new Lexus.
If only... Here they go for many times that much, if you can find one at all. For original selectfire variants you can add a couple zeros to that number.
@tombrechet2097 Why does nobody want them?
Ahhh! The STG57. Quite common in our parts and well known as "the relaoder's nightmare" and/or "brass rapist"
yeah. the casings are wrecked!
When it's a military using it.....they're going to be using all new factory ammo. They don't care about the brass.
Same with my PE90, it marks up brass pretty good.
The FG 42 also has rings in the chamber! Like this my gun.
...Those... those names really escalated, huh?
"Brass rapist"
What the fuck?
Our Swiss rifles get some love. My boss served with this rifle. Still has it (you're allowed to keep your rifle after your mandatory serving time in the army)
@@NCrdwlfwait define all. 1889 and 1911 included? Because if so that's dope
Swiss military:
"We need a light machine gun, a submachine gun, a grenade launcher, an assault rifle, and a sniper rifle. What guns can you come up with?"
SIG: the STG57
They forgot to make it a bulpup, so you don’t have such a long rifle
And it also is a star wars blaster.
@@genoobtlp4424 Can’t really do that, due to the fuck-massive shock absorber because lol rifle grenades.
Though you can’t dispute the results; it basically did what the M14 wanted to do, but actually pulled it off.
@@classifiedad1 pretty sure you could make an underfolder/collapsible grenade buffer or some sort of silly contraption like that... we're talking about CH here, someone would probably pull it off somehow
@@genoobtlp4424 True.
I own two Stgw 57 with removed select fire. (Semi only) This rifle is a fabulous shooter on my 300 m disciplines. I have several other rifles in.308, but they have a hard time to match those old guns.
We used the SG 510-4 in the chilean army as a DMR with a german supra 4x24 scope (I think it's still used today) and it is pretty awesome. We did some high mountain exercises and that winter trigger works amazingly, works pretty well in harsh conditions and, besides the humongous bolt (we always joke about it in comparison to the SG 542 bolt), it's pretty easy to clean. It is a bit on the heavy side (around 7-8 kilograms when fully loaded, if I remember right) but I had a lot of fun with it
I'm late to the party so this might not get noticed, but I really liked the voice-over of the disassembly. The audio quality is a lot cleaner and it doesn't detract from that segment of the video. I know its more work, but I'd like to see more of this style in the future.
I wouldn't have known it was a voice over if he hadn't said. It was that good.
Laughed my ass off seeing you wearing this old swiss Military hat. Brilliant, man!
Wanted one of these since I was 12, I'll be 51 this month and I could afford it but I don't have the visual acuity to really enjoy it anymore. Youth truly is wasted on the young.
Robert kubrick Follow your dreams mate, worst case scenario, if it's really unfun to shoot you can just sell it again.
@space cowboy#2 You can't judge how much it lessens the enjoyment for someone to not be able to shoot their own rifle to at least 9/10 of it's capability. I have some carbines that I can shoot about as well as anyone within their effective range. It's enough for me. I used to be a small arms repairer and I used to be very capable and would critique each individual weapon that passed through my hands. I'm a good cook and I describe myself as a food critic also.
Actually, the bipod was to be used in the opposite way as you described. Rear-position: normal position, front position: automatic fire.
We use the front position for sports shooting in Switzerland. The rear position sucks for any sort of precision shooting.
I know, I'm a Swiss shooter by myself. Using the bipod in the front position initially was not allowed, only after the 57/03 with target sights was accepted by the SSV.
That's something I'm interested as well. The rear position seems kinda pointless to me, honestly. The only reason I could really think of is that it might be slightly faster to deploy the bipod because you don't have to reach out as far compared to the front position. But then again, if you're in a position to deploy the bipod, which in my thinking means a) you need an accurate shot b) probably have some sort of cover, I don't think that a second or two more to deploy the bipod would really matter that much.
If you don't have enough ground in front of you, you must use the rear bipod
Using the rear position would probably be better for ledges like windows or rock outcrops that might not have enough material like a semi-flat dirt or grass hill or field
Leave it to the neutral guy´s to over design the heck out of something and then execute it to perfection.
Well, we sold to who wanted to buy. That is being neutral. Not taking side. We had the choice: sell to everyone or sell to nobody. Right now, it kinda feels like we did the right choice.
Nox Dei you can't assume to know the alternative to reality; it was the neutral choice.
There's no chance in hell the Nazi's would've left Switzerland alone. They wanted to restore the borders of the Holy Roman Empire, and Switzerland was right smack bang in the middle of that. It was a historically Germanic land, so a German invasion was literally inevitable. They were in the same boat as Austria, and would've been next had the Poland invasion not led to a world war.
Switzerland just lucked out in that Russia was a more pressing threat. And frankly, staying neutral was their only choice. They would've loved to have fought alongside the allies, but geographically it would have been suicide.
People who begrudge Switzerland's neutrality really have no fucking clue about the reality of the situation.
Your forgetting just one thing, just how easy Switzerland is to defend.
@@planescaped and the fact the swiss banks have everyones money. Including britian france and germany
I have Swiss relatives, i remember going over (from UK) as a child and my nephews Father showing me this rifle and his father's straight pull. I was mesmerised by them. If i recall it had tritium inserts or something like that in the front sight. At the time (early 80's) all Swiss men were reserves and kept there rifle and uniform at home, don't know about now though.
We can still keep the rifle if we want to =D
And for uniforms I think we can keep them as well.
Ah ok, wasn't sure its more than 30yrs since i was last there.
yes in the swiss army you are reserve until about 30. and you will have your personal gun, and you can buy after you are finished:)
Pascal Ringeisen I think thats how my cousins father had his fathers straight pull in the house, his father must had bought it and passed it down. To be honest i was more fascinated with the stg57 being only about 14 at the time and from the UK I'd never seen anything like it. I have alway been interested in Military history even back then and this was great, he did a basic strip down of it, like Iain did in the Vid, i remember lying on the floor of there apartment and looking down the sights. Oh that and the fact that the apartment had a bomb shelter or fallout shelter in the basement, that stuck with me also.
Yea, almost every househould, apartment or even school has a shelter underneath it =D
Ian that voice over was very well executed had you not told us I may not have noticed, other than the audio clarity.
Great review, thanks! My SIG57 I got 1983 at the beginning of my military training from the Swiss Army, is now mothballed standing in my cellar(as we can keep it privately after finished military duties), clean and greased, always ready.
Best from Switzerland!
Dammit Ian, I'm supposed to be saving up for a down payment on a house.
I didn't realize there was a semi auto version of the Stgw.57. Now my K31 needs a friend.
All the ex-military rifles that the older swiss people have are converted to semi-auto. So you can get a PE57 (which is the ground-up civilian semi-auto version) or a converted Stgw57 (no more full-auto parts in the bolt carrier/trigger).
It's exactly the same with the modern Stgw90 - There's a PE90-variant of it, too. All the military stuff like tritium sights and bayonet lug are on it, only the firing mechanism (safety, disconnector and bolt rail) differ.
This would not be the case in the U.S. Legally it is a machine gun if it was ever a machine gun whether it is possible to convert back or not. You would have to put everything on a new semi auto exclusive receiver.
BSmithCharles i thought import laws prevented them from coming over sea. Because it's not considered a sporting rifle. The Canadians got semi auto version of most Swiss gun and never seemed them to be to easy to convert.
Leif do not buy a house rental is better because houses are aging badly compared to a Stgw 57
Well, the semi-auto version of the StGw 57 cost around 1700 francs at SIG at the time.
The Fullauto as well.
As a soldier, you could take your rifle home with you for free after active service.
Active service means for me that I completed an apprenticeship of around 5 months, then every year a revision course 8 WK) and I was assigned to the army until I was 43 years old.
So for me 1 apprenticeship and 12 WKs. for 3-1 / 2 weeks each.
Before me, the soldiers were in the army for up to 50 years ..... today they are only until they are 32.
This just might be my new Raifu. I love me dem thicc hard hitting rounds.
I am gonna instantly steal the term raifu. thanks!
Nice Marathon logo!
Do excuse me while I too, barrow this beautiful new word for my dictionary.
Raifu lmao
@@Frankdude72 Durandal approves.
"Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Forgotten Hats." :)
I think that he saw your comment!
ruclips.net/video/pvi1u1U_h1g/видео.html
Now that Ian hired some dude maybe Ian will have time to launch spin-off channel 😛
Greetings from Switzerland Ian! you reviewed my grandpa's K31, my dad's Stgw57, now i wish you could swing by and review my Stgw90 and do a bit of 300m shooting!
This gun looks so freaking bizarre but so cool at once... This is how you do things. It looks strange, cool and works perfect. If only everything could be like this.
The full auto version was seen in the 1969 Bond film "On Her Majesty's Secret Service", therefore, I want one.
Same movie had scenes filmed in Switzerland itself; particularly on the Schilthorn mountain.
Ian is such a dork with his choices of outfits. He probably sleeps in a civil war era underwear onesie for practical reasons of course.
This hat is awesome, my father has the same one. He served many years as a corporal in the swiss armed forces during the cold war.
Daniel Gwerder That 'Schiffli' (cap) looks like the dress uniform model to me. The one I got to wear in the field (1986/7) was made from much coarser wool felt. I was very happy to replace it with a caporal's cap (looks like a slumped baseball cap), since that had a lining.
Somehow John Marston from the Original RDR's DLC "Undead nightmare" comes to mind, riding off into the sunset in basicly just underwear
Onesie is good. But in the southern U.S. when we say "longhandles" everyone knows what you're referring to.
I'm just glad that creep Karl isn't showing up any more
I can't freaking believe that you guys mud-tested this beauty. And not only that, but you got the blessing from the owner.
My father did his military service with the Stgw57, he always talks about how awesome it is, the only problem is the weight...he was in the alpine troops and going up the "little" mountains that we have here in Switzerland wasn't easy. You have to try to launch a grenade with it, it's a crazy hit! a lot of little guys used to pay the biggest soldier in the section to launch them! HAHAHAHA!
So sweet to see a man fall in love.
A good rifle for Bond villains as well.
It's all over On Her Majesty's Secret Service - I think Blofeld's henchmen fire a rifle grenade at one point. Also, masses of Sterlings.
another nice feature of the Stgw 57 are the markings on the bipod. using the pocket knife on a string, which would be looped around the bayonet lug the pocket knife then serves as plummet to determine ranges for indirect rifle grenade fire using the scale marked on the bipod.
also the winter trigger is superb for precision shooting, as it gives more leverage an thus "softens" the trigger pull
I liked how your new audio matched up with the video really well and the moving close ups are nice
Oh lovely!
I worked on plenty of Stgw. 57s so I've been waiting to see you take a good look at it.
Not saying I've fired a lot of battle rifles, but I've got to say the Stgw. 57 is probably my favorite one (of that era, anyway).
Thanks for the lovely work as always Ian, always nice to see you cover weapons from my country.
"sights very similar to a johnson machine gun or an fg42" ah yes im quite familiar with those sights what with all my trigger time behind said firearms.
Google if you're a filthy casual.
He also does a close up on the sights if you watched the video.
You obviously know those weapons from their respective videos on Forgotten Weapons.
Call of duty. Nough said.
@Eric Sales if they're accurately portrayed, why not? lol
i like the voice over for when he disassembles it, makes thing much more clear and more enjoyable. Love ya ian
What a beautifully made over complicated Swiss watch. I need one!
An aside ... The white plate seen on the right side of the trigger group can be turned around and reinserted to allow full auto fire in the military version. This was to prevent inadvertent full auto fire during training at the local shooting ranges.
Please do a review of the SIG-SG-550 (Stgw.90) if you ever get your hands on one!
They are built really good as well, and shoot very accurate! But they also don't treat brass very nicely :P
Oh, please yes. I'd love to hear the thoughts and demo on the 550. Recently got myself one and of course, am very curious about any additional information.
What else do you want to know? Most everything is out there to be found.
swissrifles.com/sig550/index.html
If you go to that page you can read more. What I find especially interesting and amazing is the link to the testing documentation here: www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
They tested the shit out of them.
Those are some good links. Thank you. But i am still curious about additional information you do not find so easily, such as the multiples of 6 rounds for the PE-57 for example. Also, just Ians personal opinion on it too.
Oerlikon he would have to go to Canada (if they are still legal in Canada) or Switzerland because of US import laws. Tell SIG to start making these cool guns in the US.
I know it has alot to do with were they are but the SOUND omg it’s glorious
Great Video! Always good to get more info on the Sig PE 57!
An interestingly Swiss approach to a fairly simple problem? Geeze Ian...are you trying to say we Swiss like to overcomplicate things?
just look at what yall did to pocket knives *shakes head*
you and your watches
@@massv953 *spits out coffee laughing*
The only thing I know of the Swiss simplifying is the Luger. Surprisingly.
@@zacharyrollick6169 They probably looked at it for a while and realized that if they complicated it, they would just end up turning it back into a Borchardt.
For a straight up conventional war, this is probably the best rifle for the job.
Because the rifle is damm accurate? And the rifle shoots, even when it is hot.......
...If they can afford it. Assuming unlimited resources, which isn't a conventional war.
I'd take a SCAR-17(or one of the newer AR-10s, hk762, even an FAL) over this any day.
this gun(while very cool for what it is), seems way over built, and unnecessarily complicated. just more stuff to go wrong in my opinion.
doesn't seem ergonomic at all either. look how small the handguard is for example.
also doesn't have the capability of mounting accessories either(e.g. optics, flashlights, lasers, etc.), though I suppose they could alter it to provide this capability.
but most of all, this gun is 12-13 lbs(unloaded, with no accessories.)
a SCAR-17 is only 8.0lbs. that is a huge difference. I'm also willing to bet the SCAR is more accurate too. I've seen plenty of people shoot .5-1 inch groups at 100 yards(with match grade ammo.)
or did you mean if you were a solder at the time this rifle was in service this would be your first choice?
@@Mockturtlesoup1 I can guarantee you nothing will go wrong. But I agree it's not ergonomic at all!
@@Mockturtlesoup1 The weight problem could be fixed using modern materials to build it, if I'm not mistaken
great gun, tested most military variants during my military service in chile, still remember fondly my first 510 "Don Francisco"
The Beer Keg Charging Handle. Love this thing.
as a swiss, its awesome to see an american going crazy on a swiss gun :D
Please do a vid with the Stgw 90, its not forgotten but even more awesome than the Stgw 57!
As an American I would love to go crazy on a swiss gun as well!
Anyone who has a reasonable understanding of firearms will admire the swiss weapons design and issue policy. .peace through superior firepower, and accuracy!
considering ive been wanting K31 for a while, knowing this also takes 7.5 swiss, ill have to add this to my wishlist
beautiful gun
If you didn't mention before hand that you were laying a voice over during the disassembly, I would have nearly never known hahaha. The way you paused at certain points and put emphasis on your words, perfectly lined up with the small amounts of troubles you may have had physically when doing certain things. Perfect, I love it
Thx for that ... good job. I got one since I did join the army in 1985 - its not forgotten either ... mine is under the bed : )
Greetings from Zürich / Switzerland
The weight, combined with the low rate of fire, and recoil reducing mechanism compared to say a long stroke gas piston and the barrel chamber designed similarly to an fg42 which allows for a reduction in chamber pressure and a delayed ejection., probably all contributes to the low recoil. xP
For some reason, the Swiss Army cap that Ian is wearing makes him remind me of one of the Thunderbirds.
I remember my military service well. Our
shooting instructor promised us 2 nights free exit, if we dare to fire
on the military bike simultaneously with two assault rifles, two rifle
grenades with additional charge. I did it. When I think about it, my thumbs and buttocks start to hurt again. But I was in the exit for 2 nights. (Adelboden Alps, spring 1986, Adjudant Schmoll :D )
Love the enthusiasm and the slow mo to explain the action.
So an STG-44 and an MG-42 had a baby basically.
And FG42
Mg 45 ! The mg42 is roller locked, while the mg45 is roller delayed.
@@Kar-wm5on I assume you mean the StG-45 (Gerat-06H)?
Zachary Rollick There was supposed to be an MG45 that is roller delayed so they can further simplify their Machine guns but the war ended before anything could actually happen with it.
@@MPdude237 Prototypes were made supposedly.
Le fusil le plus solide et le plus fiable que j’ai utilisé a l’armée Suisse merci la confédération helvétique 👍🏻🙂👍🏻
I'm from Glasgow UK and have one of these in my locker in Switzerland and shoot it at every opportunity when visiting great fun great video
Hey Ian, you know what would be great is if you could find some old forgotten ammo like on some early makes of hollow points or personal defense ammo and some strange calibers. That would make a very interesting series of videos. Thank you for all your time and hard work to bring us history's Forgotten Weapons.
Is there some mechanical reason why roller delayed guns aren't designed with bolt hold-opens?
@Dale Ding
Sounds like a job for the swiss! :D
Sounds to me like you're talking straight blowback. Furthermore, a hold-open generally catches right at the beginning of forward travel, so the bolt speed is close to zero and mass is irrelevant, because you're only resisting the recoil spring (you don't have to arrest the momentum of an accelerated bolt). And thanks to the roller mechanism these guns don't need excessively strong recoil springs. And anyway plenty of straight blowback guns have a last shot hold-open.
So, I'm gonna have to reject that explanation, as offered.
Yeah, despite all the crowd-mentality thumbs-ups, the explanation provided still does not have teeth, from a mechanical perspective.
For instance, the arguer fails to understand that a bolt _must_ come to a stop between traveling backwards and reciprocating forwards, and that at this moment its momentum _must_ be zero. Mass, springs, buffers, are all entirely irrelevant to this. (p = mv)
And of course, as you pointed out, MP5s _are_ built with bolt hold-opens, though it was not originally a standard feature.
So, at present, the best explanation stands at "market niche expectations", rather than mechanical inherency. Maybe I should preface everything with "I'm an engineer and I will reject anything less than rigorous appeals to physics and empiricism". I was hoping to hear from mechanical engineers like Ian, though I appreciate the effort in either case. Actually, this discussion has been valuable, because it's helped me think through it and allowed me to discount any real mechanical motive for this design choice. =)
Unless a mechanically convincing reason remains in the offing....
Check out Ian’s struggle with the recoil spring at 13:47 to find out why a hold-open isn’t feasible ;-)
Cost,
Even if the part is only $1.00.
It adds up(×20000).
Wear and tear,
Next is design/engineering....
All of this is easy to overcome,
A little training.
Do not shoot the rifle empty.
Change mags, at the short brakes in combat fire.....
What's with that eternal handle design, do the Swiss like to be reminded of beer every where they look?
It's designed to be used with gloves. Because it can get cold here. Especially if you are a mountaineer.
@@lucariolps277 That explains the large size and rubber (?) construction.
@@zacharyrollick6169 the keg on the stgw 57 is some sort of metal if I am not mistaken. But the k11 and earlier rifles had rubber kegs. Again, not 100% sure.
@@zacharyrollick6169 but yes, the large size, as far as I understand is for better grip with gloves.
I have liked this rifle for a long time. I am happy to see that the beer barrel charging handle will not smack left handed shooters in the nose.
I like the older forgotten weapons videos like this one, the little mistakes makes them charming, the newer ones can be a little routine.
Interesting design. Shame the beer keg handle is absent on modern Swiss small arms.
We live in the ruins of superior generations.
awesome
This is Ian's Magnum GI configuration, complete with the optional cap and aviators.
Really cool rifle. Thanks for sharing.
The world needs more roller delayed guns.
Great accuracy potential!
Im The southpaw if that happens, the world needs more decent steel cased ammunition.
I watch with envy as you pop the rollers in and out of the bolt carrier. Why is that easy on the SIG and seems to get stuck on the HKs?
What he said.
Those "fiddling things" manufacturers could make a killing out of a roller key chain thing.
I know some Bloke that might really like this rifle.
is he "on the range"?
I hear there's a lot more of these around Bloke's neck of the woods.
I think he has one already. Either him or this other chap that always hangs around...
Christian
Who is he?
Funny thing when I watched the disassembly, I instantly was reminded back to my service days 30 years ago, I haven’t touched a rifle since then but still remember the dissassembly by heart… we had to repeat it hundreds of times, even with closed eyes. It is still memorized in my brain 😂
Thanks dude, you really helped me out with this vid. One of these parts kits just came into my buddies shop and we had no idea what it was. We found the SIG stamped and literally just typed in "forgotten weapons SIG" and this was the fourth or fifth video.
Could you also specify the size and weight in the metric system ?
Length is 1105 mm, Height 583 mm and the Weight is 6,1 kg unloaded
Leave it to the Swiss to build the finest rifle one that is reliable accurate and ideal for their idea of combat. being heavy doesn't matter in a weapon intended for use from a fixed position Bunker and does make for less parts breakage and longer service life.
Walaaah, so smooth shooting this will be my favorite one. LOVE IT
Also, the ring you are talking about in the chamber marks the cartriges even if you don't fire. It's there to prevent rebound of the bolt. The déformation of the cartrige serves as a buffer because all the other parts are either hardened tool steel or metal-dur and thus they give back all the energy you give them. I dunno if I'm clear, english is not my main language.
slimjim355 I speak french (Swiss french), german and english
The Swiss are badass. I love their policy of issuing a full auto sig 556 to every able bodied military age male. I wish uncle sam would give me a free M4!
grow like the wind You'd also have to be enlisted in the army's reserves though
All males in Switzerland are inducted into the army, all become 'reserves'. The rifles were not 'free' in any aspect, they earned those rifles, and I do agree, every service person with an honorable discharge should be able to leave with their issued arm. Who could be better trained? Armed citizens, keeps us free. Jesus would tell you ''sell your cloak and buy a rifle''
CHip Hailstone could you please explain simply to me how the Swiss gun laws work?
How does someone wear a black hoodie in the Arizona desert and not die in the process?
Depending on the time of year/day, it can get pretty cold up there.
You see, in the middle latitudes, where Arizona is located, we have these things called "seasons," where the weather is warmer or colder depending on which season it is, based on the angle of sunlight caused by the Earth's axial tilt. During the season called "Winter," which in the Northern Hemisphere is roughly December through February, the weather is colder than during the rest of the year. Note that this video was posted at the end of February, and was therefore most likely shot in the middle of Winter.
That little two prong tool was actually a small mirror with a looped handle which was used to check the cleanliness of the barrel by inserting it into the empty receiver at a 45 degree angle, then looking down the barrel towards the receiver. The mirror was included in the cleaning kit issued to the soldier.
Why do I always find myself watching old FW vids all night.
Hopp Schwiiz!
So Swiss engeneering is more overengeneered thatn German engeneering?XD
Emiliano Rosas yep. The Swiss Luger was the first Luger to be adopted so the Germans just used most of what the Swiss military used on there Lugers. Also the Germans would simplify the Luger in the 1930s because it was very complex.
Germans are effective and Swiss are perfective, thats the difference.
After a year I've found a new interest on this rifle, and when I search for it, Ian has a video on this very rifle. Coincidences and more coincidences.
you guys all do realize that his commentary on disassembly synced up perfectly with the footage take hours or even days prior to him re-voicing it. perfectly timed with the hand gestures and everything... you can tell he's been doing this a good long while haha
It's never too late to repent and turn away from the sin of left handed firing, Ian. John Moses Browning will forgive you.
Gun Jesus is fair to all, lefties and righties.
I enjoyed that side cap tremendously.
I have a pair of ComBloc weapons with a Bulgarian AK and a CZ75 Compact, but I decided to go Swiss on my previous choice with a Schmidt Rubin 1896/11. For a rifle made in 1910, it is the smoothest firing rifle I've ever shot. I can only imagine how exceptionally well-made post-WWII Swiss are if something 111 years old is *that* good.
Phenomenal work. Your Chanel is probably among my favorite. The attention to mechanics and internals as well as history gives people like myself an up close view of things we're likely not able to. Keep up the good work.
I just recently went shooting rifles for the very first time in my life and I got the chance to shoot both the Stg90 and Stg57. We shot at target disks that were standing 300m away. We did 10 shots per round so to speak and even I, a complete greenhorn with poor eyesight hit the 10 three times on my 3rd run using iron sights... I preferred the 57. Even though the difference in caliber between the two guns is huge the recoil was about the same.
What a GORGEOUS firearm this is.
I did not know you lived in AZ! Your channel is amazingly informative, and extremely educational. The way you combine history, engineering and bad ass nostalgia is a rare example quality on a medium ( internet ) which is anything but. You ( deservedly so ) have one of the coolest jobs on the planet.
Thanks Bob!
When you said "Sig AMT" I finally recognized this weapon. Haven't heard of the PE-57 before.
The little „chamber indicator“ was actually part of a weapons handling routine: In order to make sure your weapon was not chambered, as a check for your unloading routine, you had to gently stroke across the top of your weapon to check for that indicator. This gave your unloading procedure an „erotic“ touch. 😂
And of course I remember that little fork to hold the indicator in place, when you were cleaning your weapon.
Unfortunately mine rusted into oblivion, so I use my granddad‘s competition modified K31.
Apart from the insane weight: An extremely reliable and sturdy rifle and, in the hands of a true marksman, a formidable weapon.
What an amazing piece of engineering.
Beautiful.
Got to hand it to Swiss engineering!
Thanks for the chance to see this one up close.
Not forgotten, just did a commando conversion with it :D Those 30 round mags are very rare even here in Switzerland, but very happy when I was able to get one quite cheap.
It is also practical that after about 7 magazines have been fired in series fire, only one loading movement is required and the trigger serves purely as decoration because the ammunition self-ignites in the cartridge chamber
but u guys are only semi automatic
my stepfather used one when he was in the Swiss military. He loves it.
Id love to see this on InRange vs the FG42.