26:38 it is more likely penelope can also be an ilusion created by zeus as in the animate,penelope is yellow just like the thunder that zeus can create,moreover,zeus sing 'Tell me odyessus,if I were to make you choose the lives of your men and crew or your own,why do I think they lose?' in here zeus say he is willing to bet odyessus would choose himself and knowing zeus in god game is willing to break his rules so he don't lose to athena,it would be rasonable to think he will make an illusion for odyessus to convine him to choose himself
More likely, it's a symbolic manifestation of Odysseus's yearning for his wife. Given that he hasn't seen her in 12 years, it make sens that he would think back on the siren's personification of Penelope, especially since he wasn't in the best mental state at that point.
I find it ironic because before i found this theory, i played an RPG as Guts from Berserk (Ironically both Guts and Eurylochus carry giant swords) and backed out from killing the sirens, obviously Ody was PISSED about this, but as Guts i pulled a mirror , the same way Ody said to Athena in the Cyclops saga "What good would killing do ?" The sirens were already pleading, defeated, Guts in my RPG wanted no more but Ody was the monster, so when in Thunder Bringer, we hear "Penelope" say "I will take the suffering from you" i immediately placed the siren there to save Guts, because he freed that specific one, just wanted to share this because it's entertaining and i loved your theory
10:05 The thing is, in the Odyssey, they DO notice he is missing but didn't look after him, mostly because even though they were sailing to the underworld, they would have to return to Circe's island in their eay back anyway. They noticed his absence just not that he was dead
11:24 All we know about Perimedes in the real Odyssey is that he is one of Odysseus most loyal man. I believe you made the right assertion mentioning that Odysseus wanted to get rid of both Eurylicus and Eurylicus' loyal men in specific. In Mutiny Odysseus is confident that all the men that remain are loyal to him and only him, and Perimedes at that point likely was privileged with rowing as a result, which is why he was so surprised of being backstab by the men he thought he could trust the most
Euryluchus is responsible for a total of 586 deaths. 543 died to poseidon because he opened the bag, Elpenor died whioe under his command, 6 men had to be sacrificed because HE OPENED THE BAG and 36 to Zeus because he killed the cow.
I don't need to listen to the theory on the intention to end Eurylochus in Scylla's lair, I whole heartedly believe that was the intention. I will however, go watch it, cause I find this all fascinating lol. I haven't gone through the Odyssey in a long time. I think I need a refresher.
I'll have to play devil's advocate here. Eurylochus dosn't turn against Odysseus because people died. He turns against him because he sacrificed them on purpose to save himself. While Eurylochus is responsible for a lot more losses, none of them were intentional nor to his personal benefice. To answer your question as to what Odysseus could have done differently, there may have been a way for him to stand his ground and kill Scylla. Ares seems to think so since later blames him for not fighting her wich Athena doesn't even try to argue (personally, I would have just taken a few sirens alive to use them as bait instead but that's just me). As for the event with Circe, Eurylochus wasn't exactely wrong. The only reason Odysseus didn't die is because of a literal deus ex machina from Hermes. One could also say that Eurylochus reflected on his captain's succes hence why he brought it up during the mutiny. It could also be the reason he doesn't speak up during the underworld saga.
Odysseus chose the option where *less* people die, not just to save himself. However, I don't believe he was truly selfless. There's an extremely slim chance they could've done anything to even inconvenience Scylla. Remember, Scylla is so powerful that even Posiden, one of the most powerful deties, is scared to roam near her. They would've been on a relatively small boat within a dim cave, trying to fight her would've resulted in many more men dying. Ares is also a brash deity known for having an uncontrolable bloodlust, I doubt he could fathom the extreme challenge that'd come from attempting to kill Scylla as a mere man.
@@archon9648 His motivations were definitely selfish. The reason he had his men light up six torches was to make sure that Scylla would go after them instead of him. I find the idea of Poseidon being afraid of Scyla to be a little far fetched to be honest. Scyla is really just a cursed nymph who eats people. Even if we take it at face value, in greek mythology, Circe's powers were said to scare even Zeus himself wich pushed him to banish her on an island. It didn't stop Odysseus to come out on top. My point with Ares isn't exactely about what he say and more about the fact that Athena doesn't respond to it. When confronting Apollo, Hephaistus and Aphrodite about Odysseus's actions, she make a point to justify them. With Ares, she dosn't even mention it. Again though, Odysseus could have used some sirens as bait instead of his men. Not sure if it would have worked butThe mear possibility shows that there were alternatives that he might have thought out if he actually took the time to weight his options.
@@yoannbelleville7763 I don't think Posiden's fear of Scylla is far-fetched as it's seemingly validated when he doesn't appear to destroy them despite Odysseus roaming the sea. Circe and Scylla are extremely different cases. Odysseus was given a flower that nullified most of her abilities, reducing her to a mere physical threat after defeating her chimera, something Odysseus could easily handle. Odysseus had no advantage against Scylla; there was nothing to make it a fair fight. If they were to challenge her, it definitely would've resulted in their loss. It's strange that Athena didn't have a rebuttal for Ares. Maybe it's because Athna was more focused on Ares insulting Telemachus and fighting him, as the animation shown for their confrontation depicts them fighting each other. Trying to bring the Sirens as bait would've been an extremely risky move. They could've untied themselves or convinced a crew memember to help them. Different Beast was supposed to demonstrate how Odysseus adopted Posiden's ideology of ruthlessness and how sparing people, especially those who had just attempted to kill him, isn't the best idea. It's why he states that he isn't taking anymore chances. Just one Siren somehow freeing themselves would've caused a lot of trouble and damage.
@@archon9648 Exept Scylla isn't a godess. She isn't on the same playing field as Circe. In fact, Circe is actually the one who transformed her into a monster out of jealousy so clearly there is a big power gap. The size and strenght difference are a problem sure but it didn't stop him from putting up a fight against the cyclop. Let's not forget either that it was Odysseus's determination to save his men that led to Hermes helping him. The idea with the sirens would have been to gag them so that they couldn't use their songs. Considerring thet the crewmen didn't seem to be in a merciful mood, I higly doubt they would have taken pitty on them. If anything, they may have been pissy at the idea of taking prisonners. I agree that it would have been risky but not any more than turning his own crew against him (which he honestly should have seen coming. The moment a captain starts putting himself above his men, stoping him becomes a matter of self preservation). He could have also asked the gods for guidance. That's actually what he does in the Odyssey. Surely, Hermes would have been glad to land him a hand again. I had another arguement but it ties to the "vengeance saga" and I don't wan't to spoil anything so I'll just say this: In the end, I think Odysseus's change of mindset was ultimately his downfall. He was more than willing to take calculated risks before so long as it was for the safety of his crew. This dedication to his men was the reason for their loyalty. In the thunder saga, his only focus is getting home no matter the cost or who pays the cost so long as it isn't him. Had he had the same mindset earlier, it's safe to say he would have abandoned his men to Circe withought hesitation.
When I catch you Eurylochus!! Though 100% I believe he would have been on board with what happened in Scylla's lair, had *he* not been one of the people meant to have the torches. He knew he was supposed to die there.
He would have been on board because he knew that If Odysseus says it, is because he truly wasted all other choices and this was their only choice. Instead, after he sees how ruthless he is in Suffering, he realizes that it wasn't an accident nor Odysseus even tried to come out with another solution, it was planned and planned so with the intention of getting rid of him and his closest friends in mind. People think he is truly would have sacrifice people for his own sake based on what he said in Puppeteer, but that was just cowardice as worst. He realized they were facing a Goddess and never forget that the only reason Odysseus even survived so fast as to be able to beg Circe is because a literal God came down and gave him a magical power up. Eurylicus was totally in the right here, the rational choice was to cit their losses for the sake of the few men they had left, since charging all at the palace was a suicide and it wouldn't even turn their pig friends back to humans. Leaving men behind is different than sacrificing them selectively
how I see the No Longer You prophecy I see a song of past romance: Suffering I see the sacrifice of men: Scylla I see portrayals (emphasis on the pluralisation) of betrayal: Mutiny (1. Eurylochus drawing his sword 2. Perimedes stabbing Odysseus 3. Eurylochus killing the cows) And a brother's final stand: Eurylochus dying in Thunder Bringer (fun fact Eurylochus is actually Ody's half brother) I see you on the brink of death: Love in Paradise (The rest of this is predictions) I see you draw your final breath: Charybdis or Six-hundred strike I see a man who gets to make it home alive: self explanatory, it's just the entire Ithaca saga
Okay, but I'm so sick of Odysseus constantly being excused because "oh, he had to do this because the gods said so and because gods always know whats best blah blah blah..." He DID NOT have to kill the infant. That was a choice. And the God's warning came from Zeus, the very last person to trust on anything because he's the guy whose cheating is arguably what makes him so well known. The guy was willing to kill a fellow God simply for managing to persuade the other Gods to vote against him when it came to what to do with Odysseus. And Odysseus already KNOWS about the Gods and how they are and how fickle and playful they are -- also how the hell did the winions get onto the ship to say "it's treasure"? (My assumption is that Aeolus just couldn't help themselves and decided to fuck with the men on purpose... and I'm not even sure if they knew why they were keeping that bag closed... they just had to have faith in Odysseus. Even though he put his faith in the fickle gods constantly, or in Polites assumptions that if they just welcome the world with open arms things would turn out well...) They had every reason to doubt him whether or not he managed to lead them through the war. I mean, you make a separation between war time and cyclops time, so we should also separate his skills as a war-time captain and peacetime captain and his decisions. Ultimately, those lives DO lie with Odysseus. He was the captain. Not just lieutenant. Captain. He trusted the gods no matter what, and yet, didn't ever care to truly listen to them. He gave an insult of an apology, he was the one to give away his identity to the Cyclops, he lead the men while they were on the island, and he chose to omit a heck of a lot. Eurylochus did leave a bunch of men to rot as pigs, but, they only came across circe and trusted her after they'd left Odysseus, who told them to separate from him. And considering Odysseus didn't trust the lotus eaters, he would've been inclined not to trust circe, but he chose to abandon his men in a sense and not hear out Eurylochus when it could have been important. And then a series of more prudent issues came up, so now there's little opening to talk about it immediately. While Eurylochus disobeyed an order (treason), he very likely tried to come clean about it and was Odysseus decisions that prevented that. While Eurylochus wanted to leave men behind, there's no particular reason why he shouldn't -- Odysseus was willing to kill innocents (an infant) --, and frankly, Odysseus' men were far from innocent. Eurylochus sucked as a friend and a captain, but Ody is hardly the ideal... yet analysis videos and comments tend to frame things as such.
I don't think defying Zeus, the God-King, would've been a smart decision, especially since he explicitly stated that it was the 'will of the gods,' you even mention how fickle and egotistical Zeus is. He was willing to smite his daughter just because she won the game he created when he could've just declined her request. It's safe to assume that he likely would've done the same if Odysseus chose to defy him. Ultimately, Odysseus was presented with two options: kill the infant and save more lives in the process or allow it to live and risk his entire kingdom being annihilated. It was a lose-lose situation, he simply chose the one where less people die. Also, "abandon his men"? Odysseus ordered them to ensure the island was secure, he didn't just leave them. I also don't see what the infant has to do with Eurylochus choosing to abdaon the other men, it's revealed in Scylla that he considered fellow soldiers to be 'friends,' so him abandoning them seems hypocritical in hindsight. Moreover whether those men were innocent or not doesn't really matter; they were forcefully transformed into pigs. They didn't deserve that, especially since they weren't stated to be hostile or even rude towards Circe or her nymphs. Edit: Odysseus directly told them why the bag must stay closed in Keep Your Friends Close. Eurylochus would've been one of the first to hear this since he was on Odysseus' ship, yet he still chose to defy him and open the bag, which led to most of their men dying. Even if we're to assume that they doubted him so much because of this supposed faith in the gods (which was more of just an adherence to their rules, not trust or worship) and Polites' admittedly flawed philosophy, it wouldn't have been unreasonable to assume Odysseus was truthful. As he'd just decended from a *floating island* and hadn't lied to any of them at that point.
alright, good video if I say so pretty cool theory. I'm here to dump my own take onto this and bring up some issues I had with this video. first issue i can think of his how much you dog my boi Eurylochus, while yes, very much his fault for opening the wind bag. what do you expect eury to do? he couldn't have done anything. and the only reason ody was able to beat Circe with the help of "Divine intervention." he would not have won that if it weren't for Hermes helping him. on to my next issue, also another thing. the whole Elpenor thing, ima keep it real. that was stupid and made no sense. and you go on, and on about how eury let a siren live out of spite. which why? what reason does he have to spite him? he said himself ody is like a brother to him. what reason would he have to spite him? if i had to guess, it was how gory and un-humane the order was, like throwing them back into the water and let them drown? he could have just killed them quick, but no, he wanted them to suffer. this whole take, is fine, it has its problems but overall a cool theory. (this is no hate comment btw just addressing issues I had for this video)
I mean there is a brief mention of one remaining siren in Apollo's part of God Games-
I think Athena referred to the Siren race in general in that case.
26:38 it is more likely penelope can also be an ilusion created by zeus as in the animate,penelope is yellow just like the thunder that zeus can create,moreover,zeus sing 'Tell me odyessus,if I were to make you choose the lives of your men and crew or your own,why do I think they lose?' in here zeus say he is willing to bet odyessus would choose himself and knowing zeus in god game is willing to break his rules so he don't lose to athena,it would be rasonable to think he will make an illusion for odyessus to convine him to choose himself
I think there’s a story where he makes Nephele, who is a cloud made in Hera’s image to test some man. So I see this take 100% Absolutely!
More likely, it's a symbolic manifestation of Odysseus's yearning for his wife. Given that he hasn't seen her in 12 years, it make sens that he would think back on the siren's personification of Penelope, especially since he wasn't in the best mental state at that point.
@@AngelesLunamothYes disturbingly. And as I recall it is one of the origin stories for centaurs.
I find it ironic because before i found this theory, i played an RPG as Guts from Berserk (Ironically both Guts and Eurylochus carry giant swords) and backed out from killing the sirens, obviously Ody was PISSED about this, but as Guts i pulled a mirror , the same way Ody said to Athena in the Cyclops saga "What good would killing do ?" The sirens were already pleading, defeated, Guts in my RPG wanted no more but Ody was the monster, so when in Thunder Bringer, we hear "Penelope" say "I will take the suffering from you" i immediately placed the siren there to save Guts, because he freed that specific one, just wanted to share this because it's entertaining and i loved your theory
10:05 The thing is, in the Odyssey, they DO notice he is missing but didn't look after him, mostly because even though they were sailing to the underworld, they would have to return to Circe's island in their eay back anyway. They noticed his absence just not that he was dead
11:24 All we know about Perimedes in the real Odyssey is that he is one of Odysseus most loyal man.
I believe you made the right assertion mentioning that Odysseus wanted to get rid of both Eurylicus and Eurylicus' loyal men in specific. In Mutiny Odysseus is confident that all the men that remain are loyal to him and only him, and Perimedes at that point likely was privileged with rowing as a result, which is why he was so surprised of being backstab by the men he thought he could trust the most
Euryluchus is responsible for a total of 586 deaths. 543 died to poseidon because he opened the bag, Elpenor died whioe under his command, 6 men had to be sacrificed because HE OPENED THE BAG and 36 to Zeus because he killed the cow.
I don't need to listen to the theory on the intention to end Eurylochus in Scylla's lair, I whole heartedly believe that was the intention. I will however, go watch it, cause I find this all fascinating lol. I haven't gone through the Odyssey in a long time. I think I need a refresher.
I'll have to play devil's advocate here.
Eurylochus dosn't turn against Odysseus because people died. He turns against him because he sacrificed them on purpose to save himself.
While Eurylochus is responsible for a lot more losses, none of them were intentional nor to his personal benefice.
To answer your question as to what Odysseus could have done differently, there may have been a way for him to stand his ground and kill Scylla. Ares seems to think so since later blames him for not fighting her wich Athena doesn't even try to argue (personally, I would have just taken a few sirens alive to use them as bait instead but that's just me).
As for the event with Circe, Eurylochus wasn't exactely wrong. The only reason Odysseus didn't die is because of a literal deus ex machina from Hermes. One could also say that Eurylochus reflected on his captain's succes hence why he brought it up during the mutiny. It could also be the reason he doesn't speak up during the underworld saga.
Odysseus chose the option where *less* people die, not just to save himself. However, I don't believe he was truly selfless.
There's an extremely slim chance they could've done anything to even inconvenience Scylla. Remember, Scylla is so powerful that even Posiden, one of the most powerful deties, is scared to roam near her. They would've been on a relatively small boat within a dim cave, trying to fight her would've resulted in many more men dying.
Ares is also a brash deity known for having an uncontrolable bloodlust, I doubt he could fathom the extreme challenge that'd come from attempting to kill Scylla as a mere man.
@@archon9648 His motivations were definitely selfish. The reason he had his men light up six torches was to make sure that Scylla would go after them instead of him.
I find the idea of Poseidon being afraid of Scyla to be a little far fetched to be honest. Scyla is really just a cursed nymph who eats people. Even if we take it at face value, in greek mythology, Circe's powers were said to scare even Zeus himself wich pushed him to banish her on an island. It didn't stop Odysseus to come out on top.
My point with Ares isn't exactely about what he say and more about the fact that Athena doesn't respond to it. When confronting Apollo, Hephaistus and Aphrodite about Odysseus's actions, she make a point to justify them. With Ares, she dosn't even mention it.
Again though, Odysseus could have used some sirens as bait instead of his men. Not sure if it would have worked butThe mear possibility shows that there were alternatives that he might have thought out if he actually took the time to weight his options.
@@yoannbelleville7763
I don't think Posiden's fear of Scylla is far-fetched as it's seemingly validated when he doesn't appear to destroy them despite Odysseus roaming the sea.
Circe and Scylla are extremely different cases. Odysseus was given a flower that nullified most of her abilities, reducing her to a mere physical threat after defeating her chimera, something Odysseus could easily handle.
Odysseus had no advantage against Scylla; there was nothing to make it a fair fight. If they were to challenge her, it definitely would've resulted in their loss.
It's strange that Athena didn't have a rebuttal for Ares. Maybe it's because Athna was more focused on Ares insulting Telemachus and fighting him, as the animation shown for their confrontation depicts them fighting each other.
Trying to bring the Sirens as bait would've been an extremely risky move. They could've untied themselves or convinced a crew memember to help them. Different Beast was supposed to demonstrate how Odysseus adopted Posiden's ideology of ruthlessness and how sparing people, especially those who had just attempted to kill him, isn't the best idea. It's why he states that he isn't taking anymore chances. Just one Siren somehow freeing themselves would've caused a lot of trouble and damage.
@@archon9648 Exept Scylla isn't a godess. She isn't on the same playing field as Circe. In fact, Circe is actually the one who transformed her into a monster out of jealousy so clearly there is a big power gap. The size and strenght difference are a problem sure but it didn't stop him from putting up a fight against the cyclop. Let's not forget either that it was Odysseus's determination to save his men that led to Hermes helping him.
The idea with the sirens would have been to gag them so that they couldn't use their songs. Considerring thet the crewmen didn't seem to be in a merciful mood, I higly doubt they would have taken pitty on them. If anything, they may have been pissy at the idea of taking prisonners.
I agree that it would have been risky but not any more than turning his own crew against him (which he honestly should have seen coming. The moment a captain starts putting himself above his men, stoping him becomes a matter of self preservation).
He could have also asked the gods for guidance. That's actually what he does in the Odyssey. Surely, Hermes would have been glad to land him a hand again.
I had another arguement but it ties to the "vengeance saga" and I don't wan't to spoil anything so I'll just say this:
In the end, I think Odysseus's change of mindset was ultimately his downfall. He was more than willing to take calculated risks before so long as it was for the safety of his crew. This dedication to his men was the reason for their loyalty.
In the thunder saga, his only focus is getting home no matter the cost or who pays the cost so long as it isn't him. Had he had the same mindset earlier, it's safe to say he would have abandoned his men to Circe withought hesitation.
After Wisdom saga, on the brink of death is most likely referring to the dark ending of Love in Paradise
I’m still recovering from that! Absolutely!I agree!
When I catch you Eurylochus!! Though 100% I believe he would have been on board with what happened in Scylla's lair, had *he* not been one of the people meant to have the torches. He knew he was supposed to die there.
He would have been on board because he knew that If Odysseus says it, is because he truly wasted all other choices and this was their only choice.
Instead, after he sees how ruthless he is in Suffering, he realizes that it wasn't an accident nor Odysseus even tried to come out with another solution, it was planned and planned so with the intention of getting rid of him and his closest friends in mind.
People think he is truly would have sacrifice people for his own sake based on what he said in Puppeteer, but that was just cowardice as worst. He realized they were facing a Goddess and never forget that the only reason Odysseus even survived so fast as to be able to beg Circe is because a literal God came down and gave him a magical power up.
Eurylicus was totally in the right here, the rational choice was to cit their losses for the sake of the few men they had left, since charging all at the palace was a suicide and it wouldn't even turn their pig friends back to humans.
Leaving men behind is different than sacrificing them selectively
how I see the No Longer You prophecy
I see a song of past romance: Suffering
I see the sacrifice of men: Scylla
I see portrayals (emphasis on the pluralisation) of betrayal: Mutiny (1. Eurylochus drawing his sword 2. Perimedes stabbing Odysseus 3. Eurylochus killing the cows)
And a brother's final stand: Eurylochus dying in Thunder Bringer (fun fact Eurylochus is actually Ody's half brother)
I see you on the brink of death: Love in Paradise
(The rest of this is predictions)
I see you draw your final breath: Charybdis or Six-hundred strike
I see a man who gets to make it home alive: self explanatory, it's just the entire Ithaca saga
25:54 I think Penelope is a vision sent by Zeus or something similar, but definitely not the real one (there's no viola!!)
Okay i just found you channel and holy shit why do you have content on two things I’m super into wtf lmao
I think that the hard to hear part in the background is Poseidon in the vengeance saga
Okay, but I'm so sick of Odysseus constantly being excused because "oh, he had to do this because the gods said so and because gods always know whats best blah blah blah..." He DID NOT have to kill the infant. That was a choice. And the God's warning came from Zeus, the very last person to trust on anything because he's the guy whose cheating is arguably what makes him so well known. The guy was willing to kill a fellow God simply for managing to persuade the other Gods to vote against him when it came to what to do with Odysseus. And Odysseus already KNOWS about the Gods and how they are and how fickle and playful they are -- also how the hell did the winions get onto the ship to say "it's treasure"? (My assumption is that Aeolus just couldn't help themselves and decided to fuck with the men on purpose... and I'm not even sure if they knew why they were keeping that bag closed... they just had to have faith in Odysseus. Even though he put his faith in the fickle gods constantly, or in Polites assumptions that if they just welcome the world with open arms things would turn out well...)
They had every reason to doubt him whether or not he managed to lead them through the war. I mean, you make a separation between war time and cyclops time, so we should also separate his skills as a war-time captain and peacetime captain and his decisions. Ultimately, those lives DO lie with Odysseus. He was the captain. Not just lieutenant. Captain. He trusted the gods no matter what, and yet, didn't ever care to truly listen to them. He gave an insult of an apology, he was the one to give away his identity to the Cyclops, he lead the men while they were on the island, and he chose to omit a heck of a lot.
Eurylochus did leave a bunch of men to rot as pigs, but, they only came across circe and trusted her after they'd left Odysseus, who told them to separate from him. And considering Odysseus didn't trust the lotus eaters, he would've been inclined not to trust circe, but he chose to abandon his men in a sense and not hear out Eurylochus when it could have been important. And then a series of more prudent issues came up, so now there's little opening to talk about it immediately. While Eurylochus disobeyed an order (treason), he very likely tried to come clean about it and was Odysseus decisions that prevented that. While Eurylochus wanted to leave men behind, there's no particular reason why he shouldn't -- Odysseus was willing to kill innocents (an infant) --, and frankly, Odysseus' men were far from innocent.
Eurylochus sucked as a friend and a captain, but Ody is hardly the ideal... yet analysis videos and comments tend to frame things as such.
I don't think defying Zeus, the God-King, would've been a smart decision, especially since he explicitly stated that it was the 'will of the gods,' you even mention how fickle and egotistical Zeus is. He was willing to smite his daughter just because she won the game he created when he could've just declined her request. It's safe to assume that he likely would've done the same if Odysseus chose to defy him.
Ultimately, Odysseus was presented with two options: kill the infant and save more lives in the process or allow it to live and risk his entire kingdom being annihilated. It was a lose-lose situation, he simply chose the one where less people die.
Also, "abandon his men"? Odysseus ordered them to ensure the island was secure, he didn't just leave them. I also don't see what the infant has to do with Eurylochus choosing to abdaon the other men, it's revealed in Scylla that he considered fellow soldiers to be 'friends,' so him abandoning them seems hypocritical in hindsight.
Moreover whether those men were innocent or not doesn't really matter; they were forcefully transformed into pigs. They didn't deserve that, especially since they weren't stated to be hostile or even rude towards Circe or her nymphs.
Edit: Odysseus directly told them why the bag must stay closed in Keep Your Friends Close. Eurylochus would've been one of the first to hear this since he was on Odysseus' ship, yet he still chose to defy him and open the bag, which led to most of their men dying. Even if we're to assume that they doubted him so much because of this supposed faith in the gods (which was more of just an adherence to their rules, not trust or worship) and Polites' admittedly flawed philosophy, it wouldn't have been unreasonable to assume Odysseus was truthful. As he'd just decended from a *floating island* and hadn't lied to any of them at that point.
alright, good video if I say so pretty cool theory. I'm here to dump my own take onto this and bring up some issues I had with this video. first issue i can think of his how much you dog my boi Eurylochus, while yes, very much his fault for opening the wind bag. what do you expect eury to do? he couldn't have done anything. and the only reason ody was able to beat Circe with the help of "Divine intervention." he would not have won that if it weren't for Hermes helping him. on to my next issue, also another thing. the whole Elpenor thing, ima keep it real. that was stupid and made no sense. and you go on, and on about how eury let a siren live out of spite. which why? what reason does he have to spite him? he said himself ody is like a brother to him. what reason would he have to spite him? if i had to guess, it was how gory and un-humane the order was, like throwing them back into the water and let them drown? he could have just killed them quick, but no, he wanted them to suffer. this whole take, is fine, it has its problems but overall a cool theory. (this is no hate comment btw just addressing issues I had for this video)
I really don't want to be mean but I really think this video could have been shorter