The "Boost 2 win" argument was honestly circulating before even Forces came out but it was only ever really levied against Unleashed and parts of Gens. Ironically Rush would've been the first game to actually implement it The boost in Unleashed (and also in rush honestly) is very very OP as a mechanic, but the game is explicitly designed around that. It's by far one of the smoothest feeling games in the series as a result. Generations has a more balanced boost but the level design is also more expansive
@@bbguy2245It was just Lost World spindash, though. We need a real spindash in the next game, and seperate roll mechanic. More like the classics, rather than Adventure.
I think the main complaint with the boost formula (pre Forces) of the speed not being a reward anymore comes from a misunderstanding of the way the boost formula *works.* Speed isn’t the reward. It’s part of the challenge. You can go top speed whenever you want, so good luck with reacting to everything coming your way at top speed
My main problem with the boost levels is the sheer size of the levels. Sonic goes so fast that making a level that is even remotely enjoyable (imo only gens and unleashed truly achieved) requires much more work, way more than an adventure level.
I think people like boost in gens unleashed and every single other sonic game except sonic forces and frontiers, in sxsg they made a mixture of the colours and frontiers style of boost and from what I played on bgs it was great And in my opinon the boost formula isn't the best way to represent sonic in 3D, yes the franchiese is made with speed and specticle in mind but at it's core it's a physics based platformer, and so the adventure formula in my opinion is the best one because it include all three things that makes the gameplay in sonic unique
Just so you know, even though SEGA is delisting the OG Gens game they listened to the fan backlash about that and fortunately mentioned afterwards that they will be re-releasing that version of it on Steam in bundles with other Sonic games and that the mods that many people have made for it will NOT be affected. So no big worries.
Maybe we should take a break from the boost gameplay but not abandon it completely Also Frontiers’s boost when maxed out makes me feel really fan in the open zone
I’m a huge boost game fan myself and personally I think SEGA should go back to the way you get boost in sonic rush. I think it’d be neat in 3d looking for places to perform tricks then your style is rewarded with boost. It adds a whole new layer of challenge to the speed run
Considering that the fanbase complains about literally everything, boost, classic, 2D. I think the fans should abandon the franchise and stick to games they like 👍
I don't think the boost itself is a problem but the levels, they're extremely linear and with the right level design the boost formula could be really interesting Also I don't remember Sonic using those shoes 01:24
Its sad that advocates of getting rid of boost use Forces as their example, the game with only 3 level designers, one of which only had prior experience with Lost World. It's clear that the issue was with staff and execution, not with the concept. Forces and Frontiers cutting the drift and replacing it with automated alternatives is one of my biggest gripes with both games. The autoturn mechanic in Forces contributed to the "boost to win" mentality by removing execution (not to mention killing you if you try to turn in the same direction), and the drift panels feel like a half baked compromise for the one level that required harsh turns. I still love the concept of boost and I want to see Sonic Team continue to develop boost games.
I agree with you but none mentions Sonic Rush, 2D is easier to create so less budget being spent with assets, models, litenening etc. Some sort rush title could also work than just be a side piece in a bigger game
i mean...not necessarily? like this formula has worked and it can work again they just need to flesh it out like shadow generations like the boost formula is also one of the reason what made sonic's gameplay so great if this can work why get rid of it? just because adventure fans don't like it? my point is don't get rid of something it it actually works i don't think the boost formula was a mistake for sonic and it shouldn't be get rid of..like the concept and the formula itself isn't the problem depends on execution i think sonic forces really left a sour taste in alot of people's mouth that's why they don't wnat boost anymore but the issue was the execution not the formula itself..it was poorly executed otherwise why it worked in colors,generations,unleashed,frontiers(to an extent)?
I'm very much in favor of furthering Frontier's twist on the boost mechanic. I much prefer the boast being more like a gas peddle where you use it strategically and it recharges over time like Botw's stamina. I've never been one for the boost being a face button command that needs rings to recharge and blasts through enemies. In Frontiers I felt like I had so much control over Sonic's speed, helped by frontiers finally making the homing attack a separate button. I cannot express how much I hated the homing attack being the same button as jump in previous 3D Sonic games, making it so that every time I wanted to make a precise jump I'd end up shooting off in some other direction. In Frontiers, You only Homing attack when you specifically mean to, and you only boost when you mean to, and you can't just run out and need to scrounge for rings. Frontiers absolutely had my favorite 3D sonic controls.
Boost at its peak is better than anything the Adventure formula has done however the issue is finding a supplementary gameplay style accompany it and make the levels consistently long like Unleashed. I think the open zone is a great secondary gameplay style. Instead of 30 short cyberspace stages we get 9 or 10 Unleashed and Generations tier levels which we can do multiple missions in like the challenge acts in Gens.
They should keep it but improve upon it. I used to want it gone in favor of the adventure formula but now I realize that they can just combine the 2 formulas for the best game, because I think both aren’t perfect. Also on a causal consumer level, people who barely know about sonic and are interested in a sonic game want to go…. You know, fast. One glance at an adventure game, and they might think it’s just a basic platformer and the whole speed thing is exaggerated. On the other hand, one look at the boost game, and they’re like, “yeah…. That’s fast alright” One thing you gotta give the boost is that it’s very distinctive. (Not saying I agree wholeheartedly, but just trying to get in the head of the average consumer) ……..I do want SA3 tho 😢 JUST ONE LAST ADVENTURE GAME PLEASE SEGA
What could they possibly do to improve the formula, it already improved the controls, mechanics and level design from the adventure games, the term “boost to win” was a petty complaint on hating what was objectively better then what the adventure games put on the table
I do miss the more complex levels from the adventure games and the boost formula really made the drift away from that level design even more pronounced. I'm just more on a neutral to tired side regarding boost.
i think that frontiers' boost is excellent in the open zone, mainly because it has what it lacks in the cyberspace levels, that being speed and control. the control is obvious, open zone frontiers sonic can turn on a dime and just feels good (once you turn off air deceleration). the speed is actually interesting because, despite being extremely slow in cyberspace, in the open zone with the power boost and maxed speed settings, frontiers sonic has the fastest boost out of any of the boost games. yes, even unleashed. in any other boost game, this and the boost not doing damage would be an absolute nightmare, but with how good sonic controls it becomes basically exactly what i want from sonic.
Saying "Here at MintJoy we only give the best of the best takes in the word" is actually extremely accurate. It's great hearing someone talk in favor of the boost and giving ways to improve it. Certainly an enjoyable production indeed!
6:41 Activating Cyberspace Power Boost (which you get for S ranking everything in the Cyberspace Challenge mode) fixes the speed problem… in 3D sections. Even in the open zone, power boosting never made you go any faster in 2D so those sections are still a slog.
Generations is pretty much in my top 3 games of all time, I’d genuinely consider it an almost perfect game. However, I will say Planet Wisp in it makes the perfect case for how to use Boost incorrectly. The start of the level is fine, but the second half is the most altered compared to any other level in the game. They focused way too much on the platforming and vertical elements, rather than the horizontal racecar feeling stages like rooftop run had. Forces has a LOT of levels that put emphasis on verticality, while the rest play like a racetrack without turns. Boost is definitely my favorite style of sonic, it’s just that it is incredibly easy to do wrong.
What I would like for a new boost game is some sort of combination between the Sonic UnWIIshed's boost (do the boost level up the more ring you collect) and the Colo(u)rs and/or Frontiers boost, honestly I LOVE the Unleashed Wii boost cause it gives some sort of strategy when you use your boost so imagine this: You can't use rings to charge your boost but instead rings make your boost gadget level up and in order to get your boost you must either collect an item (like the white wisps) doing some tricks or beating ennemis but if you get hit your boost gadget will level down and also you must used your boost in some sort of strategic way cause you're limited with it
although this comment is like seven days too late personally the way I feel it should work as similar to shadow the hedgehog where you don’t have the boost, but you either also don’t have spin dash or it isn’t as important as I feel sonic she have a basic role or slide and a combat ability
Honestly, I was against Boost formula for awhile, but after some time I noticed that I'm actually more against 2D in 3D games, that was they need to get rid off. I'll be happy when they separate 2D to 2D games, that where it belongs.
@@Gnidel Yeah, I hope that they understand that that was a mistake and sooner than later release SDT on Steam and consoles for a low price instead of keeping it stuck on devices that not everyone is rich enough to afford, and also stop having offically listenced cover cases that can count as interesting and highly wanted Sonic merch be only made for Apple devices, may they start making ones that would offically fit on Android devices too! Me and many other Sonic fans are sick of them NOT doing that.
"Should Sonic abandon the boost formula?" Of course not! Shadow Generations has just proven what I've been saying for years - that all we need is better execution and good level design. And lo and behold, Shadow Gens gave us exactly that - great levels with a lot of replayability and awesome different routes. I'm actually baffled at boost haters saying "YOU NEEDED TO EARN THE SPEED BEFORE, NOW IT'S JUST PUSH BUTTON AND WHOOSH, YOU GOT FAST" - well yeah, push the button and you go fast, but push the button at the wrong time and you go fast into a bottomless pit or spikes or wherever else. Search any videos with people playing Generations for the first time and you'll see. And while the platforming felt stiff as fuck in the previous boost games, it's never an issue in Shadow Generations. In fact, Shadow Gens is hands down the best controlling 3D Sonic game ever. Adventure 1 controlled well when you were going on slower-to-middle speeds, but on high speeds I always felt like I was at the game's mercy. Adventure 2 never controlled good. With Heroes and Shadow 05 I was just winging it, hoping for the best. Unleashed and Generations controlled the best when going fast and moving forward, but whenever they attempted 3D platforming, there was trouble. Shadow Gens? Always feels good, be it platforming or boosting or whatever else. They slowed the boost down somewhat compared to Unleashed and Sonic Gens, but that's actually a good thing because it allows for more decision making when boosting and it could be used for more obstacles and challenges in the future, which I'm anxious to see.
I kind of want them to try something like the original 2D formula in 3D, building momentum is addicting and I love trying to push that speed into jumps to get insane air time. That said, I don't think Sonic needs to stick to one singular gameplay style in a generation, I don't think you even need to differentiate through different "versions" of Sonic. I think how Sonic 06 would sometimes lock you into a speedier section except this time actually fun with gameplay similar to the boost games, or just have different games in general with two different styles, who gives a shit if it doesn't necessarily make sense since it's fun and adds variety.
Yes it should. The New Genesis mod of Frontiers and countless fan games shows that the boost formula is not needed, good stage design is what is needed. The player’s ability to gain and maintain speed finally needs to be 100% in a cause & effect relationship from manual & disciplined input again not just button holding.
Especially after shadow I'll be so mad if sega abandons this style after making it this good. Boost style sonic appeals to so many. And with the new quality of level designs were getting now it's stupid to abandon it before it can get even better.
I think they should evolve the boost formula into something more versatile which they seem to be doing if frontiers is any indication. The problem with the boost formula for me is it was very stiff and not casual friendly. I think changing it to a short dash would do wonders especially with this new adventure like formula, having the speed and spectacle of boost but the control and freedom of the adventure games.
My problem is that the adventure games don't translate the classic 2D gameplay into 3D well at all and sega has since stopped attempting to; going so far as abandoning the spindash. I just want to see the classic sonic gameplay I love fully put into 3D at least once, something like Sonic GT or Sonic Utopia. but if sega keeps doing boost that may never happen 😢and that kinda sucks there are 5 boost games so far, we classic sonic fans can't just get 1 3D classic sonic game?
I agree, if I were head of Sonic Team we'd get 3 types of Sonic games every 2 years in a cycle. 1. Hub world which send you to 30 levels with 2 gameplay styles. i. 3D Momentum based stages (like GT, Utopia & Encore). ii. 2D Classic stages (like Superstars, 3&K, 2, CD, 1 and Mania) 2. Adventure fields which send you to 30 stages with 2 gameplay styles. i. 3D Adventure gameplay (like Adventure 1 & 2, Heroes, Shadow 05 and Sonic 06) ii. 2D Advance style stages (like Advance 1, 2 & 3) 3. Open Zone which sends you to 30 cyberspace stages. i. 3D Boost gameplay (like Unleashed, Colours, Sonic Gens, Lost World, Forces, Frontiers and Shadow Gens) ii. 2D Boost gameplay (like Rush, Rush Adventure & Colours DS) This will keep everyone happy and give us both 2D and 3D gameplay.
@@AYTM1200 What's the real difference between Classic style and Advance style beyond visuals though? They're pretty much the same, yeah the Advance series did gradually add more moves and mechanics and evolve it a bit over time, but so did each of the Genesis titles. Especially Advance 1, that is basically just another Classic Sonic game but with the modern character designs.
@@legoboy7107 The different is that classic style doesn't have automated sections, boost-pads, or nearly as much flat terrain. Classic style is solely about mastering the physics using slopes, ramps and various pinball-like mechanics in the levels.
Yes they should get rid of the boost. Speed used to be a reward of maintaining your momentum in the classic and adventure era games. The boost games are fundamentally flawed because taking damage is a mere inconvenience now that you can just press a button to gain speed instantly, not to mention its only suited for boring linear hallway level design.
I have about 260 to 280 hours put in Sonic Generations! So, it would be kinda funny to put a long of time into Sonic X Shadow Generations (when i get the game, that is)
Forces didn't taint the reputation of the formula, it's an intentional smear campaign adventure fans did for years so they could get their gameplay formula and drop the boost. It's like saying we should never do Adventure because 06 failed. Everyone internally knows "boost to win" makes no sense because using this logic the adventure formula is "jump to win". Narrowing everything down to the dominant action in a game just doesn't give an accurate representation of the style.
It's always the ones who are only fans of SADX, SA2B, & Heroes and seemingly nothing else that the franchise has to offer (Not saying it's all of these fans since many keep to themselves).
And the irony is that SA2 isn't even that different in design from a Boost game, when it comes to the speed stages. Yeah you don't literally have the Boost move itself, but the way the level design works and how the player interacts with it mechanically is almost the same, it's not far from being a Boost game itself. Whenever I see fans constantly talk about "The adventure formula," what they describe pretty much only really applies to SA1, not the other Adventure game SA2.
@@legoboy7107 True, and they usually mention how SA2 is their favorite which kinda throws their "criticisms"/complaints out of the window besides the Spindash not being as spammable and everything but Jump being set to the same button.
@@legoboy7107 I agree again but what I would say is SA2 has rolling whilst the boost games have boosting. The boost games are more about quick reaction based 3D gameplay on your way to the next 3D platforming section with light 2D platforming. SA2 is more about interacting with stage gimmicks on your way to the next 3D platforming section.
I think they should let it go. Unleashed is my favorite game in the series but boost formula isn’t sustainable. The games are too difficult to make to continue topping the previous entry
When it’s done good it’s genuine art, perfect level design. But it just isn’t sustainable. Sega can’t put out bangers like generations every single time. They need to slow things down but not too slow (the adventure formula) to be more consistent with level design
The term “boost to win” was a claim to hate on what made sonic so great since 2005 with the entry of sonic rush, people who use that phrase wanted to hate just for the sake of hating, i played frontiers and i still think unleashed, generations and colours Wii handled sonic gameplay the best, regarding the adventure formula this might be a hot take but sonic lost world had some of the best controls and level design in an adventure style sonic game and for good reason
I’m surprise you didn’t point out some other problems with the boost to win gameplay such as not having any playable characters, and the annoying crappy 2D sections that makes me question if the game is even a 3D game in the first place, and the fact that every boost game has some random gimmick next to the boost, which means it cannot stand on its own, and overall, how repetitive this gameplay style can get.
1. Some people wanna play as Sonic in a Sonic game, it was pretty subversive at the time and I kinda prefer it over having to play as a slow boring mech 2. 2D sections aren’t always a bad thing. They can be fun if you’re willing to give it a chance, and that’s all that really matters in a game. 3. Unique gimmicks make a game stand out… less…?
Name 1 Adventure game with just Adventure Gameplay. I'd much rather play 1 decent 2D level like in Shadow Generations than cŕappy mech shooting, treasure hunting and big the cat 🤢🤮.
@@vhisperv 1. Yeah, but there is more to the franchise than just Sonic himself and by this logic it’s like saying that we shouldn’t like any other character except for Sonic himself apparently which is very ironic because you have a different character as the profile picture, also, it’s very ironic that you’re pointing out the mech shooting but not something like the Werehog, which is in a boost game by the way. 2. Well there are problems and the fact that this the game is supposed to be 3D from the look of it and also games in the 90s were actually trying to be 3D at the time so the fact that the boost is going back to 2D it’s just really laughable. 3. Yes, because at this point, the boost games are kind of more famous for their gimmicks than the boost self, and it doesn’t help the fact that literally all five boost game have a gimmick in them.
@@AYTM1200 well, I can’t do that for the Adventure gameplay because we only have three adventure games and they were made during the PS2 an early PS3 era compared to the boost games which are made after. Also, if you want to play a 2D level then you can just play an actual 2D game, also, you do realize that all of these gimmicks were technically for other characters and not Sonic himself.
We haven't got a true boost game for 7 years...almost over a decade what are you talking about man? You could make an argument frontiers was one but...it has it's own thing going on that doesn't exactly make it a true and traditional boost game plus it's super nerfed too.
Boost not my style. So scarp it. Raw copy of adventure formula isn't as good as what I've seen in the sonic GT fangame so i eant physics and level design like in that game.
The "Boost 2 win" argument was honestly circulating before even Forces came out but it was only ever really levied against Unleashed and parts of Gens. Ironically Rush would've been the first game to actually implement it
The boost in Unleashed (and also in rush honestly) is very very OP as a mechanic, but the game is explicitly designed around that. It's by far one of the smoothest feeling games in the series as a result. Generations has a more balanced boost but the level design is also more expansive
The best part of frontiers is you can increase the speed in the settings and you can get infinite boost super easily too
That's more of a sprint than a boost ngl. Spindash is peak though
@@bbguy2245It was just Lost World spindash, though. We need a real spindash in the next game, and seperate roll mechanic. More like the classics, rather than Adventure.
@@andraw4002 yes but I'm saying the boost should function like the spin dash from frontiers in the open world
@@bbguy2245The boost isn't necessary for future Sonic games
@andraw4002 THATS WHY I AM SAYING REVAMP IT. CAN YOU NOT READ
I think the main complaint with the boost formula (pre Forces) of the speed not being a reward anymore comes from a misunderstanding of the way the boost formula *works.*
Speed isn’t the reward. It’s part of the challenge. You can go top speed whenever you want, so good luck with reacting to everything coming your way at top speed
This 👍
Shadow Generations is exactly what you're looking for then. Look at gameplay for the game and you're going to see basically everything you asked for.
AAA my art on the thumbnail!! Tysm for the credits ^^ it was a pleasure working with you!
My main problem with the boost levels is the sheer size of the levels. Sonic goes so fast that making a level that is even remotely enjoyable (imo only gens and unleashed truly achieved) requires much more work, way more than an adventure level.
I think people like boost in gens unleashed and every single other sonic game except sonic forces and frontiers, in sxsg they made a mixture of the colours and frontiers style of boost and from what I played on bgs it was great
And in my opinon the boost formula isn't the best way to represent sonic in 3D, yes the franchiese is made with speed and specticle in mind but at it's core it's a physics based platformer, and so the adventure formula in my opinion is the best one because it include all three things that makes the gameplay in sonic unique
Admitting to being a Sonic fan!?!?!??!?!? What a confession🤯!
Just so you know, even though SEGA is delisting the OG Gens game they listened to the fan backlash about that and fortunately mentioned afterwards that they will be re-releasing that version of it on Steam in bundles with other Sonic games and that the mods that many people have made for it will NOT be affected. So no big worries.
Maybe we should take a break from the boost gameplay but not abandon it completely
Also Frontiers’s boost when maxed out makes me feel really fan in the open zone
I’m a huge boost game fan myself and personally I think SEGA should go back to the way you get boost in sonic rush. I think it’d be neat in 3d looking for places to perform tricks then your style is rewarded with boost. It adds a whole new layer of challenge to the speed run
Just found your channel through this video and i also enjoy persona so i subscribed lol
Considering that the fanbase complains about literally everything, boost, classic, 2D. I think the fans should abandon the franchise and stick to games they like 👍
Lmfao 😂
I don't think the boost itself is a problem but the levels, they're extremely linear and with the right level design the boost formula could be really interesting
Also I don't remember Sonic using those shoes 01:24
Props for noticing the shoes. I modded Unleashed but forgot to remove them lol
@@MintJoyPictures I take it you used xenia?
Ye. It surprisingly runs really well now
I think you’re overstating how “Hated” the boost formula is, the last time it was a big point of discussion was before Frontiers released.
0:10 ah...the good ones Brilliant!
Its sad that advocates of getting rid of boost use Forces as their example, the game with only 3 level designers, one of which only had prior experience with Lost World. It's clear that the issue was with staff and execution, not with the concept.
Forces and Frontiers cutting the drift and replacing it with automated alternatives is one of my biggest gripes with both games. The autoturn mechanic in Forces contributed to the "boost to win" mentality by removing execution (not to mention killing you if you try to turn in the same direction), and the drift panels feel like a half baked compromise for the one level that required harsh turns.
I still love the concept of boost and I want to see Sonic Team continue to develop boost games.
I agree with you but none mentions Sonic Rush, 2D is easier to create so less budget being spent with assets, models, litenening etc. Some sort rush title could also work than just be a side piece in a bigger game
It's like saying we shouldn't go back to adventure because of 06. It's just silly.
Agree
i mean...not necessarily? like this formula has worked and it can work again they just need to flesh it out like shadow generations like the boost formula is also one of the reason what made sonic's gameplay so great if this can work why get rid of it? just because adventure fans don't like it? my point is don't get rid of something it it actually works i don't think the boost formula was a mistake for sonic and it shouldn't be get rid of..like the concept and the formula itself isn't the problem depends on execution i think sonic forces really left a sour taste in alot of people's mouth that's why they don't wnat boost anymore but the issue was the execution not the formula itself..it was poorly executed otherwise why it worked in colors,generations,unleashed,frontiers(to an extent)?
Based
I'm very much in favor of furthering Frontier's twist on the boost mechanic. I much prefer the boast being more like a gas peddle where you use it strategically and it recharges over time like Botw's stamina. I've never been one for the boost being a face button command that needs rings to recharge and blasts through enemies. In Frontiers I felt like I had so much control over Sonic's speed, helped by frontiers finally making the homing attack a separate button. I cannot express how much I hated the homing attack being the same button as jump in previous 3D Sonic games, making it so that every time I wanted to make a precise jump I'd end up shooting off in some other direction. In Frontiers, You only Homing attack when you specifically mean to, and you only boost when you mean to, and you can't just run out and need to scrounge for rings. Frontiers absolutely had my favorite 3D sonic controls.
Boost at its peak is better than anything the Adventure formula has done however the issue is finding a supplementary gameplay style accompany it and make the levels consistently long like Unleashed.
I think the open zone is a great secondary gameplay style.
Instead of 30 short cyberspace stages we get 9 or 10 Unleashed and Generations tier levels which we can do multiple missions in like the challenge acts in Gens.
They should keep it but improve upon it. I used to want it gone in favor of the adventure formula but now I realize that they can just combine the 2 formulas for the best game, because I think both aren’t perfect.
Also on a causal consumer level, people who barely know about sonic and are interested in a sonic game want to go…. You know, fast. One glance at an adventure game, and they might think it’s just a basic platformer and the whole speed thing is exaggerated. On the other hand, one look at the boost game, and they’re like, “yeah…. That’s fast alright” One thing you gotta give the boost is that it’s very distinctive.
(Not saying I agree wholeheartedly, but just trying to get in the head of the average consumer)
……..I do want SA3 tho 😢 JUST ONE LAST ADVENTURE GAME PLEASE SEGA
I personally like the boost mechanic in the older games. I do think they could improve it slightly in the newer games tho.
Easily!
Sameeeeee
Agree
What could they possibly do to improve the formula, it already improved the controls, mechanics and level design from the adventure games, the term “boost to win” was a petty complaint on hating what was objectively better then what the adventure games put on the table
I do miss the more complex levels from the adventure games and the boost formula really made the drift away from that level design even more pronounced. I'm just more on a neutral to tired side regarding boost.
i think that frontiers' boost is excellent in the open zone, mainly because it has what it lacks in the cyberspace levels, that being speed and control. the control is obvious, open zone frontiers sonic can turn on a dime and just feels good (once you turn off air deceleration). the speed is actually interesting because, despite being extremely slow in cyberspace, in the open zone with the power boost and maxed speed settings, frontiers sonic has the fastest boost out of any of the boost games. yes, even unleashed. in any other boost game, this and the boost not doing damage would be an absolute nightmare, but with how good sonic controls it becomes basically exactly what i want from sonic.
3:02 you're in a rush
A SONIC RUSH
Saying "Here at MintJoy we only give the best of the best takes in the word" is actually extremely accurate. It's great hearing someone talk in favor of the boost and giving ways to improve it.
Certainly an enjoyable production indeed!
Agree
Agree
@@Gamecliparchives definitely agree
6:41 Activating Cyberspace Power Boost (which you get for S ranking everything in the Cyberspace Challenge mode) fixes the speed problem… in 3D sections. Even in the open zone, power boosting never made you go any faster in 2D so those sections are still a slog.
Generations is pretty much in my top 3 games of all time, I’d genuinely consider it an almost perfect game. However, I will say Planet Wisp in it makes the perfect case for how to use Boost incorrectly. The start of the level is fine, but the second half is the most altered compared to any other level in the game. They focused way too much on the platforming and vertical elements, rather than the horizontal racecar feeling stages like rooftop run had. Forces has a LOT of levels that put emphasis on verticality, while the rest play like a racetrack without turns.
Boost is definitely my favorite style of sonic, it’s just that it is incredibly easy to do wrong.
I do like the gameplay of generations but the story is completely non existent.
Sonic fans act hysterical when it's called a run buttoon, but when it's the exact same but called a boost, they're accepting.
They already did like 10 years ago.
Technically true 😂
Then why we are literally getting a new boost title this year!?
@ it’s a re-release with dlc
What I would like for a new boost game is some sort of combination between the Sonic UnWIIshed's boost (do the boost level up the more ring you collect) and the Colo(u)rs and/or Frontiers boost, honestly I LOVE the Unleashed Wii boost cause it gives some sort of strategy when you use your boost so imagine this:
You can't use rings to charge your boost but instead rings make your boost gadget level up and in order to get your boost you must either collect an item (like the white wisps) doing some tricks or beating ennemis but if you get hit your boost gadget will level down and also you must used your boost in some sort of strategic way cause you're limited with it
why is it just, spindash, or boost? It could be both.
although this comment is like seven days too late personally the way I feel it should work as similar to shadow the hedgehog where you don’t have the boost, but you either also don’t have spin dash or it isn’t as important as I feel sonic she have a basic role or slide and a combat ability
Honestly, I was against Boost formula for awhile, but after some time I noticed that I'm actually more against 2D in 3D games, that was they need to get rid off.
I'll be happy when they separate 2D to 2D games, that where it belongs.
It seems that the trend is separation of 2.5D and 3D into separate acts. Both Frontiers and Shadow Generations do this.
@@Gnidel In my opinion we have enough pure 2D games, I just want my 3D games to actually be 3D for a change.
@@Sobol14 Me too.
@@Hedgie3 Me three. Too bad the only pure 3D Sonic game since 06 is Dream Team which is stuck in Apple Arcade jail.
@@Gnidel Yeah, I hope that they understand that that was a mistake and sooner than later release SDT on Steam and consoles for a low price instead of keeping it stuck on devices that not everyone is rich enough to afford, and also stop having offically listenced cover cases that can count as interesting and highly wanted Sonic merch be only made for Apple devices, may they start making ones that would offically fit on Android devices too! Me and many other Sonic fans are sick of them NOT doing that.
"Should Sonic abandon the boost formula?"
Of course not! Shadow Generations has just proven what I've been saying for years - that all we need is better execution and good level design. And lo and behold, Shadow Gens gave us exactly that - great levels with a lot of replayability and awesome different routes. I'm actually baffled at boost haters saying "YOU NEEDED TO EARN THE SPEED BEFORE, NOW IT'S JUST PUSH BUTTON AND WHOOSH, YOU GOT FAST" - well yeah, push the button and you go fast, but push the button at the wrong time and you go fast into a bottomless pit or spikes or wherever else. Search any videos with people playing Generations for the first time and you'll see. And while the platforming felt stiff as fuck in the previous boost games, it's never an issue in Shadow Generations. In fact, Shadow Gens is hands down the best controlling 3D Sonic game ever. Adventure 1 controlled well when you were going on slower-to-middle speeds, but on high speeds I always felt like I was at the game's mercy. Adventure 2 never controlled good. With Heroes and Shadow 05 I was just winging it, hoping for the best. Unleashed and Generations controlled the best when going fast and moving forward, but whenever they attempted 3D platforming, there was trouble. Shadow Gens? Always feels good, be it platforming or boosting or whatever else. They slowed the boost down somewhat compared to Unleashed and Sonic Gens, but that's actually a good thing because it allows for more decision making when boosting and it could be used for more obstacles and challenges in the future, which I'm anxious to see.
I kind of want them to try something like the original 2D formula in 3D, building momentum is addicting and I love trying to push that speed into jumps to get insane air time. That said, I don't think Sonic needs to stick to one singular gameplay style in a generation, I don't think you even need to differentiate through different "versions" of Sonic. I think how Sonic 06 would sometimes lock you into a speedier section except this time actually fun with gameplay similar to the boost games, or just have different games in general with two different styles, who gives a shit if it doesn't necessarily make sense since it's fun and adds variety.
Yes it should. The New Genesis mod of Frontiers and countless fan games shows that the boost formula is not needed, good stage design is what is needed. The player’s ability to gain and maintain speed finally needs to be 100% in a cause & effect relationship from manual & disciplined input again not just button holding.
Especially after shadow I'll be so mad if sega abandons this style after making it this good. Boost style sonic appeals to so many. And with the new quality of level designs were getting now it's stupid to abandon it before it can get even better.
Good question, I don’t know but can give someone give me a boost?
LMFAO
Woah, lore accurate speed. 2:54
HOLY SHIT THE TIMMS!
Great video
Have hopes for the boost in the future.
I think they should evolve the boost formula into something more versatile which they seem to be doing if frontiers is any indication. The problem with the boost formula for me is it was very stiff and not casual friendly. I think changing it to a short dash would do wonders especially with this new adventure like formula, having the speed and spectacle of boost but the control and freedom of the adventure games.
they should make levels like sa1 but more open and make 2 open acts with 1 boss each zone
My problem is that the adventure games don't translate the classic 2D gameplay into 3D well at all and sega has since stopped attempting to; going so far as abandoning the spindash. I just want to see the classic sonic gameplay I love fully put into 3D at least once, something like Sonic GT or Sonic Utopia. but if sega keeps doing boost that may never happen 😢and that kinda sucks there are 5 boost games so far, we classic sonic fans can't just get 1 3D classic sonic game?
I agree, if I were head of Sonic Team we'd get 3 types of Sonic games every 2 years in a cycle.
1. Hub world which send you to 30 levels with 2 gameplay styles.
i. 3D Momentum based stages (like GT, Utopia & Encore).
ii. 2D Classic stages (like Superstars, 3&K, 2, CD, 1 and Mania)
2. Adventure fields which send you to 30 stages with 2 gameplay styles.
i. 3D Adventure gameplay (like Adventure 1 & 2, Heroes, Shadow 05 and Sonic 06)
ii. 2D Advance style stages (like Advance 1, 2 & 3)
3. Open Zone which sends you to 30 cyberspace stages.
i. 3D Boost gameplay (like Unleashed, Colours, Sonic Gens, Lost World, Forces, Frontiers and Shadow Gens)
ii. 2D Boost gameplay (like Rush, Rush Adventure & Colours DS)
This will keep everyone happy and give us both 2D and 3D gameplay.
@@AYTM1200 What's the real difference between Classic style and Advance style beyond visuals though? They're pretty much the same, yeah the Advance series did gradually add more moves and mechanics and evolve it a bit over time, but so did each of the Genesis titles. Especially Advance 1, that is basically just another Classic Sonic game but with the modern character designs.
@@legoboy7107 a larger emphasis on moveset than momentum movement.
But I get your point it's pretty similar.
@@legoboy7107 The different is that classic style doesn't have automated sections, boost-pads, or nearly as much flat terrain. Classic style is solely about mastering the physics using slopes, ramps and various pinball-like mechanics in the levels.
I agree with everything said here. But man...
Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors Wii and DS, Shadow Generations, what about them???
I think they should ditch the boost and make it so Sonic can spindash and we could use ramps to reach longer distances.
so basically SA1?
@@Liltracysintern No. I’m saying in an open zone game.
Yes they should get rid of the boost. Speed used to be a reward of maintaining your momentum in the classic and adventure era games. The boost games are fundamentally flawed because taking damage is a mere inconvenience now that you can just press a button to gain speed instantly, not to mention its only suited for boring linear hallway level design.
The problem isn't the boost the problem is the level disine. Do you not remember unleashed or generations?
AH A FELLOW SONIC FAN
I have about 260 to 280 hours put in Sonic Generations!
So, it would be kinda funny to put a long of time into Sonic X Shadow Generations (when i get the game, that is)
Sonic Generations is my favorite game of all time!
We need a crossover with Pie Studios about Sonic
Forces didn't taint the reputation of the formula, it's an intentional smear campaign adventure fans did for years so they could get their gameplay formula and drop the boost.
It's like saying we should never do Adventure because 06 failed.
Everyone internally knows "boost to win" makes no sense because using this logic the adventure formula is "jump to win".
Narrowing everything down to the dominant action in a game just doesn't give an accurate representation of the style.
@@AYTM1200 based
It's always the ones who are only fans of SADX, SA2B, & Heroes and seemingly nothing else that the franchise has to offer (Not saying it's all of these fans since many keep to themselves).
And the irony is that SA2 isn't even that different in design from a Boost game, when it comes to the speed stages. Yeah you don't literally have the Boost move itself, but the way the level design works and how the player interacts with it mechanically is almost the same, it's not far from being a Boost game itself. Whenever I see fans constantly talk about "The adventure formula," what they describe pretty much only really applies to SA1, not the other Adventure game SA2.
@@legoboy7107 True, and they usually mention how SA2 is their favorite which kinda throws their "criticisms"/complaints out of the window besides the Spindash not being as spammable and everything but Jump being set to the same button.
@@legoboy7107 I agree again but what I would say is SA2 has rolling whilst the boost games have boosting.
The boost games are more about quick reaction based 3D gameplay on your way to the next 3D platforming section with light 2D platforming. SA2 is more about interacting with stage gimmicks on your way to the next 3D platforming section.
I think they should let it go. Unleashed is my favorite game in the series but boost formula isn’t sustainable. The games are too difficult to make to continue topping the previous entry
When it’s done good it’s genuine art, perfect level design. But it just isn’t sustainable. Sega can’t put out bangers like generations every single time. They need to slow things down but not too slow (the adventure formula) to be more consistent with level design
Sonic Generations is my favorite Sonic game!
The term “boost to win” was a claim to hate on what made sonic so great since 2005 with the entry of sonic rush, people who use that phrase wanted to hate just for the sake of hating, i played frontiers and i still think unleashed, generations and colours Wii handled sonic gameplay the best, regarding the adventure formula this might be a hot take but sonic lost world had some of the best controls and level design in an adventure style sonic game and for good reason
Everything you said from "The" to "hating" is not only false but incredibly biased.
@@EWOODJ nothing i said was out of bias, i actually played these games unlike you
@@EWOODJ🤡
so we're just gonna ignore sonic wearing jordans?
Sonic X shadow will be the deciding factor to it all
Yes
No
Edit: I don’t think they should abandon a formula that worked so well for this character, there really is no other game like it
I’m surprise you didn’t point out some other problems with the boost to win gameplay such as not having any playable characters, and the annoying crappy 2D sections that makes me question if the game is even a 3D game in the first place, and the fact that every boost game has some random gimmick next to the boost, which means it cannot stand on its own, and overall, how repetitive this gameplay style can get.
1. Some people wanna play as Sonic in a Sonic game, it was pretty subversive at the time and I kinda prefer it over having to play as a slow boring mech
2. 2D sections aren’t always a bad thing. They can be fun if you’re willing to give it a chance, and that’s all that really matters in a game.
3. Unique gimmicks make a game stand out… less…?
Name 1 Adventure game with just Adventure Gameplay.
I'd much rather play 1 decent 2D level like in Shadow Generations than cŕappy mech shooting, treasure hunting and big the cat 🤢🤮.
What??? 😂
@@vhisperv
1. Yeah, but there is more to the franchise than just Sonic himself and by this logic it’s like saying that we shouldn’t like any other character except for Sonic himself apparently which is very ironic because you have a different character as the profile picture, also, it’s very ironic that you’re pointing out the mech shooting but not something like the Werehog, which is in a boost game by the way.
2. Well there are problems and the fact that this the game is supposed to be 3D from the look of it and also games in the 90s were actually trying to be 3D at the time so the fact that the boost is going back to 2D it’s just really laughable.
3. Yes, because at this point, the boost games are kind of more famous for their gimmicks than the boost self, and it doesn’t help the fact that literally all five boost game have a gimmick in them.
@@AYTM1200 well, I can’t do that for the Adventure gameplay because we only have three adventure games and they were made during the PS2 an early PS3 era compared to the boost games which are made after.
Also, if you want to play a 2D level then you can just play an actual 2D game, also, you do realize that all of these gimmicks were technically for other characters and not Sonic himself.
Based
Just mix adventure and boost,problem solved
The Boost formula isn’t terrible they over use it
We haven't got a true boost game for 7 years...almost over a decade what are you talking about man?
You could make an argument frontiers was one but...it has it's own thing going on that doesn't exactly make it a true and traditional boost game plus it's super nerfed too.
@ Sonic Frontiers was Boost game until the overpowered Spin Dash got added in wave 2
Have You Played Sonic Robo Blast 2 Persona it's very good
And the Wii boost games get ignored yet again :,)
Might do a production focused specifically on those soon. Mainly since they play very differently, but they are an interesting part of the boost games
Boost not my style. So scarp it. Raw copy of adventure formula isn't as good as what I've seen in the sonic GT fangame so i eant physics and level design like in that game.
Mania2
Hopefully in 10 years you dont have to sound like your begrudgingly a sonic fan lol. It's been tough I know.
What?
Yes. Next question.