Which Is Quickest? BMW M4 vs Lexus RC F (3/3) - Fifth Gear
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- It's time for the final test to see which car is better, the BMW M4 or the Lexus RC-F. Tiff Needell and Karun Chandhok are seeing which car is quickest round our track, to decide who is the winner!
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Despite being some 200kg heavier, down on torque, and without expensive options like ceramic brakes, the RC F matches the M4's lap time. And it has actually outrun the BMW in AMCI's track test. Shockingly astonishing results that truly show Lexus' engineering prowess.
I think it should have been the same guy who drives both cars (or both guys driving both cars) just so that the comparison would be better. Also, instead of giving double points, you could have given normal points for the lap time, and then score the way it makes you feel. Sometimes the fastest car isnt always the funnest or the most exciting one.
+Sandouras Agreed on all points
agreed!!!
Thank you guys!
+Sandouras BMW would still win on feel.
+aluisious have you ever driven an m4 you have not that much feel to the track in the m4 in the lexus you feel the connection to the track
half a second is probably the margin of error for using an iPhone as a stop watch
+Faisal Al Saeed Thats exactly what I thought, plus changing driver. It has to be said tho, the M4 struggles to get the power to the ground while a heavier car like the lexus on a damp track will get better traction.
+Corolex yeah right... We all know M4 is the faster track car.
+NISMO N ATTACK 東瀛戰神 I agree it may be faster but as shown it still requires ideal conditions, and the same applies to the lexus. An M4 with full tank of gas vs a lexus with quarter tank may not win so easily.
Yep. The M4 won by 1 second then ;-)
Ivor Problem or even 1.5 secs
Let's see this same race now that the RC-F track edition is debuting
Listen its a wonderful car but its just a very different vehicle. I love my gsf but ive owned bmws and i feel the difference. Its not worse or better just different
I would rather buy a RC F because it would still look nice after 10 years...
And the M4s transmission would fall out in 10 years lol
Good old automatic > Dual clutch
Lmao funny Mercedes still stick with this in the V12 models.
Jia L. What are you talking about, bmws have always aged well compared Lexus especially. Simply look at how many old bmws you see at car meets versus Lexus or even at car shows
Well ... in 10 years BMW will have a permanent residence in the mechanic’s garage
@@BMWROYAL The only reason you see BMW at car meets is cause they don't drive them often. they only bring it to car meet Lexus are driving day and night with over 500000 miles on them and 25 years later . Old BMW are always being fixed by owner it's a know fact.
I think that people can't stand the fact that Lexus is no longer reliable work horse ONLY. They are now exciting to look at (in my opinion), clearly very good performance cars, and they still have their quality which to me matters a lot. I don't have too much damn money to keep fixing the damn car every month. Lexus is is kind of like Cadillac. Both brands used to be boring and nothing to be excited about, but now, complete turn around. I will always like M series, but all these brands are starting to give BMW, Audi, Mercedes run for their money. Get over it people, times change and so does everything else.
+adyyy22 Agreed. They cant stand the fact that Lexus cars are getting just as good if not better in some places then the germans.
Haters are gonna hate
very well said Sir people need to change there thinking about the Lexus brand its not dull and boring any more.
Looooooll I had a Audi (A5 3.2)before, I had to repair it al the time, and a litte while later it died at 180K miles. my My Lexus(IS350) right now has 350k miles on it Without ever breaking something.
i agreed i own 4 rx 350 not even a light boult , i have change r a flat.
09, 10. 13, and now the 17. my choice is the 2013. my 2013 only have 37k and i got 30k for it. luckylex.
Things change only if you change them 🤷 lol time is always running also. Not a good thing to point out.
Gonna go with the Lexus on this one!
Lexus
I would leave that fraction of a second win by the M4 in a blink. After years of use the Lexus will have less major repairs (if any) and is an all around reliable car. This car will just keep on going and going with hassle free maintenance.
Lets just see about that. BMW: www.carcomplaints.com/BMW/ Lexus: www.carcomplaints.com/Lexus/
@@RickHavok Lol, #1 issues with BMW: Engine, #1 issues with Lexus: Doors . I think it's cheaper to fix doors than engines. Also complaints over M4: 2, complaints over RC-F :0
@@TVperson1 I have no idea what you're looking at but it's not what I posted.
@@RickHavok Follow this links YOU posted. It's all there!
@@TVperson1 I see zero reported issues on both for 19.
A testamant to the chassis engineering in the RC-F that such a heavier car without all the costly brakes and dual clutch tranny the BMW has can almost match it on the track and with less effort from the driver.
+Slimecrazy234 It isn't really a testament to engineering when Lexus produce a supposed sports car that is so much heavier than its main rival and with such poor weight-distribution. Making a car the size of an M4 that weighs around 1500kg is extremely difficult, and the difference in weight between the two reflects the difference in engineering between them. Let's not forget, the Lexus also has more power, a more advanced LSD and a more progressive power delivery thanks to its natural aspiration.
+GPD W The weight is due to the RC being based on a hybrid of 3 platforms, the IS at the front, the IS Convertible at the mid-section, and the GS at the rear. The M4 is based on a beefed up 3 series chassis.
Yet despite that additional weight and less torque, the chassis is able to keep up with the lighter M4 on the track. If the RC-F weighed as little as the M4, it would likely destroy it on the track. That says a lot about the suspension engineering in the Lexus.
Slimecrazy234 " The weight is due to the RC being based on a hybrid of 3 platforms"
Take a look at the dimensions of the two cars. There's very little difference - certainly nothing that would explain a 200kg weight penalty.
"Yet despite that additional weight and less torque, the chassis is able to keep up with the lighter M4 on the track."
It has a similar power/weight ratio and torque only really matters for manual transmissions. Most automatics do a good of keeping the engine within its power band. If anything, the RC F's naturally aspirated engine is an advantage over the M4 because it gives a more progressive power delivery. The M4's turbos make the rear end more difficult to control, which is why you'll see the M4 sliding more than its rivals.
" If the RC-F weighed as little as the M4, it would likely destroy it on the track."
The only reason the RC F doesn't get totally humiliated by the M4 is its more advanced torque-vectoring system, which probably explains some of the weight difference between the two. If the M4 employed the same torque vectoring system, the gap between them would be huge.
+GPD W the BMW has more torque on paper and more horsepower in real world. We all know BMW underrates the power of their cars. there is a dyno video of the m4 and after removing transmission hp lost, the bhp is around 480.
+GPD W plus the BMW has instant torque, dual clutch which shifts much faster and ceramic brakes.
So how did the final round suddenly get double points. Tiff said that all the BMW could hope for was a draw.
I have a newfound respect for the Lexus. The M4´s dual clutch gearbox was probably worth 1.5 seconds compared to the Lexus´ slush-box, the ceramic brakes another 0.5 seconds at least.
Tiff is probably 2.5sec quicker than Chandok ;-) He knows that track well
im surprised by the Lexus good job
Re=test it with the new RCF track edition...2020
i don't know, but a car that weights so much and has slightly less power to weight ratio and is still able to keep up with a really good M division car with carbon ceramic breaks and DCT is quite impressive engineering there. great job lexus and good job BMW for always being the great performance car. love both cars but i would probably go with the lexus for its resale value, reliability, V8 and standout looks.
i would still take the Lexus
same
It looks like Tiff was more relaxed when driving the RC-F through the track, it looks way ore manageable, whilst the BMW looked a bit more annoying to drive, quite twitchy.
Louis Rennles Yeah i was amazed how a heavy automatic car with steel brakes can keep up with the M4.The M4 looked really frantic on the wheel but the lexus looked a lot more manageable.I wonder for those customers who can actors these cars what would they pick.
I have to say, I saw an RC-F the other day, it's not the best looking car but it certainly has presence on the road.
THEY ARE BOTH GREAT CARS. I NOW WOULD COMPARE THE PRICES AND REPAIRS/ MAINTENANCE IN THE FUTURE AND SEE THE RESULTS! THANKS FOR THE AWESOME VIDEO!!!
The Lexus wins this test as well BMW with its £12000 options wins by half a sec means nothing.
+Azhar “ForceFeed 999” Zahra AGREED. It can do everything the bimmer can do while being more comftable on the road
+Azhar ”ForceFeed 999” Zahra Well, a win is a win. Even one millisecond faster is a win. What means nothing is that BMW is more expensive, Toyotas have always been cheap.
Ahrle Bengtsdotter One. The RCF isnt a Toyota. Two Lexus arent cheap.. the LFA is more expensive then any BMW ever.
A win is a win correct but what does it say about Lexus that the cheaper priced car is only milliseconds behind a M car? That show how far Lexus has come.
Toyota4Life LOL man, Lexus = Toyota in the same way as Infiniti = Nissan, Audi = Seat = VW = Skoda, Volvo = Ford, Cadillac = Saab = Opel/Vauxhall, Chevrolet = Daewoo and the upcoming brand Genesis = Hyundai (which was earlier the very Hyundai Genesis). Lexuses have also been branded and re-badged as Toyotas in many parts of the world, shared the same components, and so on.
LF-A is also a supercar, BMW doesn't have a supercar (Except for the 8-series supercar pretender back in the 90's). You can't compare Toyota Altezzas to IS-F and say Lexuses in general are expensive just because 0.0001% is.
+Ahrle Bengtsdotter Cheap my ass first of all its Lexus not toyota second put ceramic breaks on RC and see the difference. BMW is loaded with £1200 option plus it has got two turbo plus it is lighter as well. win my ass? Give it a another year or so when Lexus will come up with there Turbo charged engine. BMW can only dream of making LFA like super car and it is £345000 dream on.
"I like this throaty roar"
"It sounds amazing"
Hey psst. It's from the speaker lol
From the speaker is LEXUS IS 350 F
What circuit is this? It looks awesome.
Stopping time with an iphone? Srsly?
Agreed pretty lame. Should've had v boxes.
that dosnt make sense on top gear the M4 was way better
prob the track, and wet, also these guys not profesionals enaugh
Joseph Sargent personal impressions are personal
Diamond Pool not proffesional? These guys are racing drivers
How do other guys that review cars say that the RC F isn't good on the track but these two guys didn't seem to have a problem at all and the Lexus barely lost too.
Glad to see Tiff is racing like a pro and not sliding all over the track, good driving.
love this show
Tires can make a huge difference on track, as well as improving track conditions as we see here. We see the media bash Lexus often, but we rarely hear them mention reliability, cost of ownership and resale. BMW have many more problems than Lexus, and when they do, they're known to leave customers twisting in the wind. BMW and Porsche still haven't learned to treat their customers like Toyota/Lexus have, and that's a big reason I buy Toyota and Lexus products.
they are both even, i dont think the M4 won, they are pretty much the same performance wise
I would still take Lexus,he look so good😎
Lexus hanging on pretty well, having in mind it is a quarter ton heavier... I still can't understand the ones who complain about RC F performance. However, I'd rather buy an ISF and put it a sport exhaust
What's the price as tested? I'm guessing the BMW is at least 10k more than the Lexus? For the Money I'll take the Lexus. Sounds a million times better, more comfortable ride, and will not cost an arm and a leg compared to the BMW to maintain. And though I like the BMW exterior styling slightly better, I think the Lexus interior is so much nicer and more interesting.
+enemay BMW's come with free maintenance for 4 years / 50,000 miles, Lexus does not.
+danecroft21 yes Lexus does!
+danecroft21 lexus doesn't need that,it'll last with no problem unlike (Break My Wallet) when the warranty runs out.
+danecroft21 incorrect does I even got that on my 2 Lexus Vehicles also, Lexus service centers far surpass BMW locations.
So was that £12,000 of extra options on the M4 vs a bog standard Lexus saloon then?
Heya. It's really interesting activity coast What's your opinion about this, guys
How did the bmw won overall when it spun out in drifting first round? Doesn't make sense.
I think the Lexus looks rather good, if understated compared to the M4. The interior seating far superior in the Lexus, the sound just totally classy in the Lexus and engineered and rather empty in the M4. M4 is a quality vehicle, but the Lexus is not too far off, considering it is probably cheaper as well.
Give it few years and 50 k miles and let them compete as older cars I know the answer. I think most of you do too. I will go for Lexus.
fifth gear is like top gear..a funny car show...though tiff needell is an astonishing driver!!!
I refer to my previous comment - best you stay with the Toyota after your last statement on the vehicles you have owned, definitely some Supercars in that line up (and yes I'm being facetious)
+RM K is not the vehicles I have owned, is a part of what I own now, I love cars and i am not a fanboy of any brand, so i can be objective. of course you cant understand that. So long a discussion and still cant say any objective thing about the bmw, not one straight fact. A clear example of a fanboy.
Okay Mr.Trillionaire,we the peasants will stick with the Toyota/Lexus & you stick with your super cars.We peasants know that you live next to a race track & that you have the best mechanics/engineers on hand to fix those cars for you every time they break (& break they will).We peasants cannot afford your lifestyle,for if we could,the world as we know it might be doomed.
I mean a LFA is a Toyota that's more then Mostar pay grade so you cannot judge based on a brand. Even a LS spec' out is above 100k.
I just watched this today. I've owned Lexus vehicles and BMWs and the Lexus is the way to go if you need something that doesn't spend time in the shop. Hands down the Bimmer is the sexiest of the two cars. What I hear in this video is that if you outfit the Lexus with Ceramic Carbon brakes that might be all thati s required to outpace the M4. But for the outrageous cost of replacing those brakes I'll take the Lexus as is.
The under dog still made an impression!
My BMW is For Sale. The auction (on eBay) ends Friday, November 27, 2015 at 9:00 pm EST. Thank you.
The Bimmer does offer a stick, which makes it more lovable.
The Lexus certainly sounds better
So basically 5th Gear made up a last minute rule to let the BMW "take the win". Great performance by the Lexus, which isn't a track car, and weighs 200kgs more...
Dat gearshift tho
Lexus is improving quite a lot it seems. Their discontinued IS F was a POS compared to the M3, but now their RC F can actually give the M4 a run for its money. I still prefer the design of the older cars though. Not that I could afford either one...
Lol measuring time with a iPhone and two different drivers. How accurate, that totally convinced me to go for the m4 rather than the RC F...
How about a 4th episode with Real world testing ??
Is BMW a sponsor?
It's that obvious huh?
Tiff Nedell on the M4 : "I love that throaty sound" MAAAN give your ears to a deaf person he would use them better than you
And this is why FG sucks - they afraid to say it out loud if the car isn't good.
Sort of Hollywood trade mark - always happy ending.
What ru on
We want drag race
unfair the bmw has optional carbon brakes and optional gearbox and not once did they mention the total price between both cars to achieve that small half second time difference
,i think id go with lexus reliability for less money and buy a 4x4 for winter with the leftovers
both amazing cars, i would call this a draw!
Lexus all the way anyday! :)
big up , i own 4 rx350 no problem, Bm, nuff problem....
The track favors the Lexus on the drag race as the heavier car will go down the hill faster
For this review to mean anything, in terms of drawing actual conclusions from it, it should have been with the same driver, same brakes (steel in this case) and professional timing.
Now its nothing more - or less- than entertainment.
to me tie is fair evaluaiton...m4 was close to win drag just as lexus in lap time
The truth is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow when your inability to substantiation your position disintegrates into name calling
You have no positon. You are only a cry baby. Still nothing to say about the car? Really? Bye!
So it's .5 seconds quicker but will cost you in the long run in resale value & repair costs.
RC F in black chrome
look Lexus is better in my opinion cause its more fun to drive
it's not like u r gonna race with it
Allll my money on LEXUS! AND BECAUSE I HAVE ONE😊
Try owning a BMW for a long time
Yello, Funny tenuous strange What's happening, guys.
To validate the test, both cars should have been driven by the same pilot;
+lessismore Not true. In the real world the owners that buy these cars are gonna race them against other people. In the real world the M4 is almost no faster then the RCF and that says alot about the RCF because it weights more and its still able to match the M4. Bravo Lexus
Both cars are awesome and their owners are very luck people.
But ... seriously? Timing them on an iPhone? and calling it over .5 of a sec?
Tiff is by far the better driver. If he had driven both cars the difference would be far larger.
M4...
Because we're not in America dude...!!!
Rcf all day
what ? guys, u blame the iphone & the pretty much identical drivers ? funny... ceramic brakes and -200kg matters here. -> these drivers are professionals, even their reaction time to push a touchscreen is way better than you think. therefore Lexus much better car. BMW reliability is also struggling against the japananese elite. Sorry, germany lost this round. get over it. RCF is the future, M is the past.
youre right the lexus is better im german so nobody can say that im from some country where everyone hates bmw
Lexus IS the best
That may be true but if you put both cars together on a street and ask all who pass what they prefer to buy for their hard earned cash, I believe it would favour the BMW
RM K: Because they love having their car in the shop and paying a lot for BMW repairs? Doubtful.
Roger Geyer or you can be an intelligent and astute buyer and negotiate a service agreement with your purchase, unlike your cheap Toyota badged Lexus 😱
RM K: You don't seem to get it. The Toyota badge on the Lexus makes it GOOD re quality, durability, and reputation. Calling that "cheap" is mighty stupid, when you're comparing it to a BMW, with a horrible reputation for durability AND very expensive repairs.
And a hint: service contracts are based on how likely the car is to break. So for example, GM extended warranties were MUCH more expensive than similar extended Toyota warranties in the 90's because -- Toyota's cars were so much more durable.
So, go ahead, add an expensive extended warranty / service contract to your unreliable and expensive BMW. I'll stick with "cheap" Toyota over that every time, thank you very much.
And thats the crucial word - "CHEAP TOYOTA" - enjoy the Corolla bud... :) I'll stick to my M4
RM K: I owned a Corolla for awhile. Great car re efficiency and practicality. Not that I'd expect you to understand that.
I consider my Infiniti G37 superior to your M4, when the total experience, including durability is taken into account. And being "cheap", I got it 3 years old with 20K miles at about half the price of new, but it was essentially as good as new.
I'd far rather be "cheap" like that then an M4 fanboi, but it takes all kinds. Enjoy your long term repair bills.
How can you be objective when you have never owned an M series car and you name Subaru as one of your many performance cars. - better stick to commenting on general cars as they are more suited to your pay grade
+RM K you know how mush I earn? you are a joke, still can say anything about any car. a troll fanboy that knows nothing. not even how to reply a comment.
m4 is on high tech . but rcf is typical
M4 more faster & also have a good handling too.
Marginally and that's not in every case that's why everyone's like wow.
You have probably bot driven an m4 or an rcf
+JDMS for the win -Toastriderr- I certainly have and there quite similar. 1/4 times show that. Actually handling in HPDE are nearly identical. Slight edge to the M4 based on slightly better power/weight ratio.
The Lexus is just not faster than the BMW in a straight line.... Jason is just a better fit here...where is he anyways?
+Audiwan Kenobi For some reason the launch control on the m4 is shit and the car ends up burning up its tyres. So even an Astra might be faster than it. Without using LC on any car, i'd say that you're right, the m4 should be quicker.
But where's Jason?
+Audiwan Kenobi he was probably doing his day job driving in the BTCC when this was filmed
+Audiwan Kenobi Agreed. The launch control is really just burn-out mode on the F8x M3/4. I've been able to produce a much more successful launch with traction completely off and simply feathering the throttle to produce less wheelspin off the line. also, cold and wet play a big role considering the mounds of low-end torque the BMW has compared to the heavier Lexus with a NA V8.
M4 the king!
Of what?...Being at the repair shop?
+penvon haha I deal cars a lot, n I know a good auto electrician, every time I come there he has bmws at the shop, I asked "you like bmws" n he says no "I love them, they feed my family really good" ;)
It's could be the driver that's makes the RCF lose
Lexus the BEST
Clearly, the two cars compete head to head. Way to go Lexus!
+Michael Persiano They really do way to go Lexus ! Also he Lexus is the better choice for everyday driving it combines comfort and performance better then the bimmer
Clearly you have never owned a BMW M series as the quality is at the top of the sports vehicles - probably best you stay with the Toyota
I own a lot of cars porsche. Alfa. Mini. Subaru. Etc etc. Why should i buy a crappy bmw When there are better options? Another fanboy with no argument...
Basicaly RCF has Won
that lexus sounds like the old m3
It can't, there is no twin turbo
That lexus is so beautiful car...
well agreed, its like the beauty of the high way. i have a 2017 Rx 350 , and folks just giving me tums up just like that.
Nah, too close to call in my opinion.
The Japanese come close but always loose on feeling en character comparing with German Cars. They always will make lesser copies of the better German examples
+Gerto Heupink Wrong. Lexus LFA is better then ALOT of germans cars. BMW doesnt and havent made a car better then the LFA.
Copy german cars Wtf!!! Are you mad or stupid thats really idiotic
Jeez I would hate to be you - how depressing 🤑
The best letter in the alphabet is still M//
On a dry track the Lexus would be nowhere compared to a M4.
Actually there was already a race in the dry track driven by the same driver and the outcome was the same... Half of a second.
❤Lexus is the best❤
only people i have seen that actualy liked the lexus
Just read the comments of this video....
motor journalists i mean
+kurt roepke American auto journalists...
Chris harris
Lexus all day!!!
Driver makes a huge difference. Let me in the Lexus and I'll beat the BMW time lol
But the BMW needs expensive repairs to keep it on the road. Bet the v8 will outlast that twin turbo v6 by a lot
I bet the M4 was in Comfort mode the whole time. Auto express ran tests and when the M4 was neutered the RCF could keep up quite well, when M Dynamic Mode was switched on, it’s like Thanos snapped his fingers.
I'm proud of the Lexus!
+Brandon Watkins Did you built it yourself?
if it was Jeremy Clarkson driving that m4 you would've seen
He slow asf
lexus will cost less to own and more reliable hands down
+ridgeline006 true if you buy cars to save and resell but to drive it hands down-BMW.
yes bmw is better track car agree
Hi indian