Yeah, Foos were introduced in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Flurrie is closer to a Ruff Puff than anything else but that's about as close as she gets to any sort of definite species
@@FreezerKing That's only a single console gen apart, so I think it could work as a "retcon", but it's definitely not the intended species. I personally think Flurrie, the Puffs, and Nimbus folks from SMRPGs, and the Foos all fall under a same umbrella species, and are just different variants (Flurrie could be closer to the Foos but never really stated). All of them are based on the clouds looking "alive" in the sprites of the early Mario games, after all (except for maybe the Foos but by that point it's just Nintendo inventing their own takes on what both Square and IntSys had done, so really just "making it canon" so to speak).
Beldam wants to look mysterious, but those three are the only people around who are shadows that have elemental magic. Who wouldn’t assume they’re sisters?
9:11 That reminds me in Bug fables how you can still (technically) press A multiple times to guard even after not timing it correctly. 14:26 Is it me, or is every female party member meets kinda flirty? Because, like, we're only an hour into this game, and so far, Mario's been kissed by every female party member. Sure, Mario is definitely hot, but in all cases, they JUST met him.
the idea of marios mustache being shiny is so funny to me. like imagine he only combs, takes care, and hell, maybe even put gel on his mustache to look good for the ladies and just leaves his hair untouched. it doesn't matter either way cuz he wears his cap most of the time
2:10 I have had a necklace come undone on its own a few times, nearly losing it once. Thankfully, I had worn it under my shirt, which was tucked at the time, so once I stopped panicking, I found it uh... down there...
tbh I agree, "sisters" makes them sound like just a group of girls having fun, instead of evil. Nothing to do with any one member, just the specific word.
Like how they ever so slightly changed Boggly Wood's music for that one section of searching for Flurrie's necklace. Me appreciates any and all variations. Hm... She used to say, "What am I thinking?" when commenting on how cute Vivian is, so I guess they changed it to sound less awkward ('cause I dunno, nothing weird about girls saying other girls are cute), but still Goombella-esque. I wonder if the room was muffling Flurrie and that's why her "voice" sounds different when she comes out of it.
Yeah, this is better, yet also worse than in the original. On one hand, she's not kissing his sole anymore, but on the other hand?(her *left* hand) Poor Mario.
6:24 The fact that this text changed doesn't really make sense if you're only looking at the English version, but in Japanese this is where the Spicy argument was. They changed it in Japanese because of how Spicy it was and they retranslated the English text to match the new Japanese text (and they pretty much just did this everywhere the Japanese script changed in the remake). 10:28 Same here.
@@Skawo I think it made the most sense to try to be more faithful to the Japanese text now that it's less Spicy and they probably decided the best way to do that is to objectively blanket update all the text instead of being selective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Skawoi think they changed the script so this reveal has a more progressive buildup, instead of having beldam directly say "you are a man" like in jp and most PAL languages in the original game in fact i think this scene now has the same dialogue in all languages
Beldam is 100% the one to go for first as her being alive is key to the game activating the second phase of the fight (Vivi using multi target fire and the like) If you do a flawless Power Bounce on Beldam you can one shot her and thus the line of text that activates the second phase can never trigger and thus easy fight Also it's fun to watch Beldam die at the very start of the fight while at the same time being like "WE LOST BECAUSE OF YOU TWO" and stuff lol
15:39 The Foo enemy appeared first in New Super Mario Bros Wii, so there is no way Flurrie is meant to be one originally. Via retcons, maybe, but it's unlike she originally is one.
2:14 If her necklace counts then so should her bracelets and earrings and she still has those... now that I think of it, her dropping one of those would've made way more sense, both in how she ended up losing them and them fitting Vivian! 2:28 Her necktie does though and funnily enough even more so in Japanese because you can use the verb する "suru" (literally "to do") which is used for accessories and make-up for it other than the more specific verb 締める "shimeru" (literally "to tie"). 4:13 Wouldn't mind either way as long as they keep all the cool animations Mario has in Paper Mario 64. 6:24 It's closer to the new Japanese version so I'll take it even as is compared to other changes or lack thereof as I mentioned before, but I would've called them the "Shadow Trio" regularly with Vivian here calling them "Shadow Sisters" instead as that would've been even closer and avoided the "relationship withheld" nonsense. 7:02 Also completely made up by the localization as Beldam just complains that she's told Vivian many times before that it's "Trio" instead of "Sisters", showing that Beldam still doesn't accept Vivian as her sister as we'll see mentioned much later, but in a less offensive way compared to the original script. 7:16 This has been changed as well for the abovementioned reason, in the new Japanese version here Vivian says "Even I... Inside my heart, I'm [your] little sister, so...". 10:02 Yep, you were trying to normal guard as you can tell from the longer animations. 10:28 Don't remember if this has been changed also in Japanese and also am not sure why regardless. 13:25 Now this finally makes sense, in the original she opened the door wide and I don't think Mario and co. turned around either.
Guarding and super guarding have endlag, just make sure not to get hit by an enemy attack in said endlag. The ability to do it multiple times is cool and forgiving
13:33 What That is a VERY seamless transition in and out, if so. Are the flowers and petals overlaid on top of the video, or part of the video but also appearing in the transition back to the game engine? Because you can clearly see when the disco lights begin and end, but the petals stay there even afterwards
The roses are part of the video, and then when it switches out of the video to gameplay, the petals flying out is a separate, mostly chromakeyed out video.
16:48 And I think that I might be the only person that watches these videos and understands that reference. Afterall, I suppose we are in a "Room" of sorts in Flurrie's house...he-he.
9:55 I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that attack is unguardable either way. I know Marilyn's are, but I suppose Vivian and Beldam also have them. You still take full damage, but the game tells you you got the timing right at least
Vivian's is unguardable, but Beldam's isn't. But yeah, in the remake, if you get the timing right on an unguardable attack, the game tells you by showing the "GUARD" icon comically spin away
The way Vivian’s original tattle log was worded made me think she had some sort of compelling power. Goombella becomes a lot more languid in her speech, sounds a bit dazed, then snaps herself out of it with “what am i saying?” Felt a lot more like some supernatural something with Vivian than developers saying it’s weird for girls to find girls cute. The new one reads as a little awkward to be perfectly honest.
I also like that in the remake, when the Necklace fetch quest starts, the Boggly Woods track switches to a version with some percussion added for spice. Which is nice since the original music started getting a little stale at this point being so heavily etherial on constant loop.
Oh that's a good tip.... I'm pretty much at the end, just need to fight 3 more bosses(the final one and the 2 secret ones) and do some major cleanup... I'll definitely remember that when I'm in a bind. Also 9:15 I did actually do the tutorials because it's first time ever playing this and I can confirm that frankly still says that
9:14 in the OG, you can press the button once every 20 frames. If you press the button at f-21 and once again at f-1 before an attack, it'll count as a successful guard. However, if you press at f-19 and then at f-1, it will fail. I'm pretty sure the same applies here
I suppose the hint you have from Vivian is during the tattles? Because Goombella describes Marylin as "Beldam Youngest sister" but then Vivian as "the Youngest of the Three Shadows"
Were Foos even a thing by the time TTYD originally came out...? And even if so, it'd be pretty weird to have a partner based on a species that is _nowhere_ to be found within the entirety of Paper Mario as a franchise.
She could still be problematic here, could've charged herself +2 two times in a row, Beldam could make her Huge, and you'll get zapped by 8 damage lightnings
7:17 that does happen a fair bit in situations where someone's already come out but the people around em (such as colleagues or friends or family) aren't really accepting even if theyre not the highest, most shamemess grade of transphobe; especially once it's been a while and both parties have been stepping on each others toes for long enuff to try to soften those kinds of blows That, or it's just a cartoonish, sillified representation of these kinds of situations :p
15:11 I don’t like seeing people mention those, but i guess it’s more like an insult towards them considering how Mario’s manliness caused this to happen
4:22 There’s a mod of 64 that shows what a potential remake could look like in the modern style. But I think they should stick to just making Mario his 64 sprite but update it.
Huh. I never noticed before, but Beldam's talking animation is a bit strange - her teeth *lower* , suggesting a wicked underbite. Was that how it was in the original? It does make her look a lot more dastardly and... "gnarled", for the lack of a better term, since she's the actual sinister, witchy one among the three. On that note - I'd assume the initial "sisters" remark is more about how it's changed from "Shadow Sirens" to just "Shadows", perhaps a little nod to the text updating... but Vivian's little note amidst it all does gleam with the more personal implication. It's cute, in an empathic sort of way. Obviously that might just be my extreme rainbow bias showing, though... You cut it out for good reason, but someone else noted earlier that the Boggly Woods theme changes for the backtracking bit. I wonder if that'll be the case later on elsewhere - to make the regular ordeals a little less repetitive? I can't imagine that they've done it everywhere, especially for when we'll have to chase down that timer's namesake... But still. It's also nice that unique themes have a custom "resolution" for when they end, too. Really feels like they've taken a lot of the music design knowledge from Origami King (which had great audio, at the very least) and applied it here. And speaking of audio... Flurrie's voice. I guess her voice sounding "softer" behind the door is meant to emphasizes the surprise for when you actually see her, since (at least in the original) her appearance was left unknown until she makes her full entrance. Touching on what exactly the "surprise" is... well, that's a prickly topic. (Her size? Her... figure? The use of The Implication Saxophone?) But hey, at least they removed the line in the tutorial jabbing at her weight, I guess.
@@ShycoWar There's a spring that gets rid of two-thirds of a long screen on the way from the settlement to Pirate's Grotto. It's not perfect, but it is a notable improvement. This moment is actually really weird, since they improved one questline about going to a character, going back to the beginning of the area to get that character an item (Cola/Necklace), returning to said character, and that character then joining your party (Bobbery/Flurrie), but left a very similar moment unhelped.
@@maxhahm5333 Right, I remember that now. I think I just kinda took that one for granted because it felt so natural, so it doesn't quite fully register that this is a new thing :V
15:11 wouldnt that be like, false in todays standards? partially because of the internet? (and some peoples ability to just realize that they probably shouldnt fight someone very manly that would be manly all over them)
10:45
Beldamn: "Now it's... up... to... you..."
Vivian: "You- You really believe in m-?"
Beldamn: "Not you. That."
Vivian: "Wha-" *Bucket*
Beldamn: "That."
That is so in-character for Beldam. I can totally buy her saying that.
Weird Magic: “Bucket Slam”
All this time, we were making "Beldam speech bubble" jokes, yet we failed to consider...
...Bucket speech bubble.
12:19 Until you reach 99 BP, at which point they kick you out of the BP pub for drinking too much BP.
British Petroleum?😳
Skawo: "Please do not choose your partner based on their mustache quality."
Me, still no mustache at 29 yo: "Yes, please don't do that."
For the thing mentioned later with Flurrie being a Foo, that's literally impossible because Foos did not exist yet.
So she's just a cloud lady.
Yeah, Foos were introduced in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Flurrie is closer to a Ruff Puff than anything else but that's about as close as she gets to any sort of definite species
@@FreezerKing That's only a single console gen apart, so I think it could work as a "retcon", but it's definitely not the intended species.
I personally think Flurrie, the Puffs, and Nimbus folks from SMRPGs, and the Foos all fall under a same umbrella species, and are just different variants (Flurrie could be closer to the Foos but never really stated). All of them are based on the clouds looking "alive" in the sprites of the early Mario games, after all (except for maybe the Foos but by that point it's just Nintendo inventing their own takes on what both Square and IntSys had done, so really just "making it canon" so to speak).
15:04 Aw, but better mustaches give better discount in shops!
Beldam wants to look mysterious, but those three are the only people around who are shadows that have elemental magic. Who wouldn’t assume they’re sisters?
9:11 That reminds me in Bug fables how you can still (technically) press A multiple times to guard even after not timing it correctly.
14:26 Is it me, or is every female party member meets kinda flirty? Because, like, we're only an hour into this game, and so far, Mario's been kissed by every female party member. Sure, Mario is definitely hot, but in all cases, they JUST met him.
8:08 Thank you Cranky Kong.
14:40
Sure is. Goombella and Koops' themes actually have the opening motif too! I feel its more prevalent in general in the soundtrack now.
the idea of marios mustache being shiny is so funny to me. like imagine he only combs, takes care, and hell, maybe even put gel on his mustache to look good for the ladies and just leaves his hair untouched. it doesn't matter either way cuz he wears his cap most of the time
2:10 I have had a necklace come undone on its own a few times, nearly losing it once. Thankfully, I had worn it under my shirt, which was tucked at the time, so once I stopped panicking, I found it uh... down there...
tbh I agree, "sisters" makes them sound like just a group of girls having fun, instead of evil. Nothing to do with any one member, just the specific word.
Like how they ever so slightly changed Boggly Wood's music for that one section of searching for Flurrie's necklace. Me appreciates any and all variations.
Hm... She used to say, "What am I thinking?" when commenting on how cute Vivian is, so I guess they changed it to sound less awkward ('cause I dunno, nothing weird about girls saying other girls are cute), but still Goombella-esque.
I wonder if the room was muffling Flurrie and that's why her "voice" sounds different when she comes out of it.
Why is there the question "Is that you?" when you clearly heard her and also you're in her house ??
14:25 “If someone touches you in a place where you feel uncomfortable, that’s no good!”
Yeah, this is better, yet also worse than in the original. On one hand, she's not kissing his sole anymore, but on the other hand?(her *left* hand) Poor Mario.
6:24 The fact that this text changed doesn't really make sense if you're only looking at the English version, but in Japanese this is where the Spicy argument was. They changed it in Japanese because of how Spicy it was and they retranslated the English text to match the new Japanese text (and they pretty much just did this everywhere the Japanese script changed in the remake).
10:28 Same here.
Well, OK, but I imagine the localizers aren't zombies and can recognize "hey, Japan updated this, but we don't really need to, do we"...?
@@Skawo I think it made the most sense to try to be more faithful to the Japanese text now that it's less Spicy and they probably decided the best way to do that is to objectively blanket update all the text instead of being selective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it's the best way to do it since smrpg remake was a mess with how they went about picking and choosing what to redo.
@@Skawoi think they changed the script so this reveal has a more progressive buildup, instead of having beldam directly say "you are a man" like in jp and most PAL languages in the original game
in fact i think this scene now has the same dialogue in all languages
Beldam is 100% the one to go for first as her being alive is key to the game activating the second phase of the fight (Vivi using multi target fire and the like)
If you do a flawless Power Bounce on Beldam you can one shot her and thus the line of text that activates the second phase can never trigger and thus easy fight
Also it's fun to watch Beldam die at the very start of the fight while at the same time being like "WE LOST BECAUSE OF YOU TWO" and stuff lol
15:39 The Foo enemy appeared first in New Super Mario Bros Wii, so there is no way Flurrie is meant to be one originally. Via retcons, maybe, but it's unlike she originally is one.
All of the partner themes have the opening motif hidden somewhere in there, I believe.
2:14 If her necklace counts then so should her bracelets and earrings and she still has those... now that I think of it, her dropping one of those would've made way more sense, both in how she ended up losing them and them fitting Vivian!
2:28 Her necktie does though and funnily enough even more so in Japanese because you can use the verb する "suru" (literally "to do") which is used for accessories and make-up for it other than the more specific verb 締める "shimeru" (literally "to tie").
4:13 Wouldn't mind either way as long as they keep all the cool animations Mario has in Paper Mario 64.
6:24 It's closer to the new Japanese version so I'll take it even as is compared to other changes or lack thereof as I mentioned before, but I would've called them the "Shadow Trio" regularly with Vivian here calling them "Shadow Sisters" instead as that would've been even closer and avoided the "relationship withheld" nonsense.
7:02 Also completely made up by the localization as Beldam just complains that she's told Vivian many times before that it's "Trio" instead of "Sisters", showing that Beldam still doesn't accept Vivian as her sister as we'll see mentioned much later, but in a less offensive way compared to the original script.
7:16 This has been changed as well for the abovementioned reason, in the new Japanese version here Vivian says "Even I... Inside my heart, I'm [your] little sister, so...".
10:02 Yep, you were trying to normal guard as you can tell from the longer animations.
10:28 Don't remember if this has been changed also in Japanese and also am not sure why regardless.
13:25 Now this finally makes sense, in the original she opened the door wide and I don't think Mario and co. turned around either.
2:16 what about her earrings and armbands?
Guarding and super guarding have endlag, just make sure not to get hit by an enemy attack in said endlag. The ability to do it multiple times is cool and forgiving
There is a reason why you’d need that feature in the remake
That’s due to a [spoiler] fight.
13:33 What
That is a VERY seamless transition in and out, if so. Are the flowers and petals overlaid on top of the video, or part of the video but also appearing in the transition back to the game engine? Because you can clearly see when the disco lights begin and end, but the petals stay there even afterwards
The roses are part of the video, and then when it switches out of the video to gameplay, the petals flying out is a separate, mostly chromakeyed out video.
16:48 And I think that I might be the only person that watches these videos and understands that reference. Afterall, I suppose we are in a "Room" of sorts in Flurrie's house...he-he.
9:55 I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that attack is unguardable either way. I know Marilyn's are, but I suppose Vivian and Beldam also have them.
You still take full damage, but the game tells you you got the timing right at least
Vivian's is unguardable, but Beldam's isn't.
But yeah, in the remake, if you get the timing right on an unguardable attack, the game tells you by showing the "GUARD" icon comically spin away
Great video as always, though I do miss the boom sound on the backtrack counter
I played more of Chapter 5, i finally understand the tree comparison. It makes sense
The way Vivian’s original tattle log was worded made me think she had some sort of compelling power. Goombella becomes a lot more languid in her speech, sounds a bit dazed, then snaps herself out of it with “what am i saying?” Felt a lot more like some supernatural something with Vivian than developers saying it’s weird for girls to find girls cute. The new one reads as a little awkward to be perfectly honest.
it might be a fluke but i'm weird, i'm a girl, and i like other girls
I wonder who at nintendo decided to give flurrie some dobonhongaros and how did that make it through the entire chain of command
7:52 HOLY SHIT THE ACCORDION
Also, how did Flurrie moved her house into the forest? Created a tornado to just throw it there, Wizard of Oz style?
8:29 there's Mr. Blizzard from Mario Party
I also like that in the remake, when the Necklace fetch quest starts, the Boggly Woods track switches to a version with some percussion added for spice. Which is nice since the original music started getting a little stale at this point being so heavily etherial on constant loop.
Spamming doesnt (usually) work, but if you manage to have 3 simplifiers, spamming can cause a permanent superguard stance (THAT WORKS)
Oh that's a good tip.... I'm pretty much at the end, just need to fight 3 more bosses(the final one and the 2 secret ones) and do some major cleanup... I'll definitely remember that when I'm in a bind. Also 9:15 I did actually do the tutorials because it's first time ever playing this and I can confirm that frankly still says that
9:14 in the OG, you can press the button once every 20 frames. If you press the button at f-21 and once again at f-1 before an attack, it'll count as a successful guard. However, if you press at f-19 and then at f-1, it will fail.
I'm pretty sure the same applies here
I suppose the hint you have from Vivian is during the tattles? Because Goombella describes Marylin as "Beldam Youngest sister" but then Vivian as "the Youngest of the Three Shadows"
Were Foos even a thing by the time TTYD originally came out...?
And even if so, it'd be pretty weird to have a partner based on a species that is _nowhere_ to be found within the entirety of Paper Mario as a franchise.
Yeah, Foos are in SM64
@@Skawo Those are Fwooshes. How dare you mix up similarly-named enemies with no notable differences in function or appearance
Marilyn is deadly in her 2nd fight since if she charges enough her ATK can be 30+
She could still be problematic here, could've charged herself +2 two times in a row, Beldam could make her Huge, and you'll get zapped by 8 damage lightnings
14:20
NO MEANS NO FLURRIE, SHEESH!!! Ease off the gas a little, woman. You’re lucky Mario didn’t report you.
7:17 that does happen a fair bit in situations where someone's already come out but the people around em (such as colleagues or friends or family) aren't really accepting even if theyre not the highest, most shamemess grade of transphobe; especially once it's been a while and both parties have been stepping on each others toes for long enuff to try to soften those kinds of blows
That, or it's just a cartoonish, sillified representation of these kinds of situations :p
15:11 I don’t like seeing people mention those, but i guess it’s more like an insult towards them considering how Mario’s manliness caused this to happen
4:22 There’s a mod of 64 that shows what a potential remake could look like in the modern style. But I think they should stick to just making Mario his 64 sprite but update it.
When you do the backtracking thing, will the song ever continue out of curiosity?
Not sure. We'll see~
Huh. I never noticed before, but Beldam's talking animation is a bit strange - her teeth *lower* , suggesting a wicked underbite. Was that how it was in the original? It does make her look a lot more dastardly and... "gnarled", for the lack of a better term, since she's the actual sinister, witchy one among the three. On that note - I'd assume the initial "sisters" remark is more about how it's changed from "Shadow Sirens" to just "Shadows", perhaps a little nod to the text updating... but Vivian's little note amidst it all does gleam with the more personal implication. It's cute, in an empathic sort of way. Obviously that might just be my extreme rainbow bias showing, though...
You cut it out for good reason, but someone else noted earlier that the Boggly Woods theme changes for the backtracking bit. I wonder if that'll be the case later on elsewhere - to make the regular ordeals a little less repetitive? I can't imagine that they've done it everywhere, especially for when we'll have to chase down that timer's namesake... But still. It's also nice that unique themes have a custom "resolution" for when they end, too. Really feels like they've taken a lot of the music design knowledge from Origami King (which had great audio, at the very least) and applied it here.
And speaking of audio... Flurrie's voice. I guess her voice sounding "softer" behind the door is meant to emphasizes the surprise for when you actually see her, since (at least in the original) her appearance was left unknown until she makes her full entrance. Touching on what exactly the "surprise" is... well, that's a prickly topic. (Her size? Her... figure? The use of The Implication Saxophone?) But hey, at least they removed the line in the tutorial jabbing at her weight, I guess.
4:18
idk it’d be cursed if they went with the ttyd design onward
10:48 Bucket!
DEAR GOD...
1:13 And then Persona style music....
Persona has a total of 1 song that is like this, what are you talking about
12:21 That’s what I thought until i hit the BP limit in Paper Mario 64. 30 isn’t even that much
I love your channel bro
It's kinda strange that they didn't fix any of the backtracking here, considering how they improved Chapters 4, 5, and 7.
Guess they decided it's not *too* problematic in comparison
4 and 7, I obviously understand, but I don't recall any significant changes to Chapter 5...?
@@ShycoWar There's a spring that gets rid of two-thirds of a long screen on the way from the settlement to Pirate's Grotto. It's not perfect, but it is a notable improvement.
This moment is actually really weird, since they improved one questline about going to a character, going back to the beginning of the area to get that character an item (Cola/Necklace), returning to said character, and that character then joining your party (Bobbery/Flurrie), but left a very similar moment unhelped.
@@maxhahm5333 Right, I remember that now. I think I just kinda took that one for granted because it felt so natural, so it doesn't quite fully register that this is a new thing :V
15:18 Yay
15:11 wouldnt that be like, false in todays standards?
partially because of the internet?
(and some peoples ability to just realize that they probably shouldnt fight someone very manly that would be manly all over them)
He's questioning Flurrie's logic lmao