When the Silliest Zelda Game Drops the BIGGEST LORE BOMB EVER
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2024
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I did not expect much from the story of The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom for the Nintendo Switch. I had another thing coming.
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You want the dark inverted triangle at the center of the triforce to represent an ancient demon far more powerful than Ganon who was sealed by the 3 goddess before the planet was created, and the planet is the prison of that demon? YES PLEASE! Oh and hes the metaphisical representation of nothingness, and he is the nothing at the center of the triforce, and hes at the center of the world created by the goddess.
holy shit
They inadvertently canonized the tetraforce theory!
Or he could represent the dark Lorule Triforce too!
Please stop. It's too late in the day to have my mind blown like that.
Tetraforce Real 2024
If you think about it, it kind of puts a lot of other zelda games into perspective. Most enemies vanish into a cloud of void, maybe they were just echoes, and null was never truly defeated.
This is reaching almost as much as Nulls claws
Nah i doubt it. If that was the case we wouldn't get monster guts or other body parts they leave behind. Its like how if you kill a deer it just poofs and leaves meat
I mean, Echoes of Wisdom takes place some way down the Downfall timeline. Possibly the only games after it are thr NES games. Before then, Null has, well, not been truly defeated.
I guess we can't be too surprised that a Zelda game's story is null and void.
Great seeing you here loved your TOTK playthrough.
@@NintendoCapriSun yo what’s up Tim
+2
For the last few games yeah 💀
You know, if the Tri are connected to the triforce in some way (which I'm willing to bet they are), it suddenly makes a lot more sense why Lorule started falling apart once their triforce was destroyed, since the Tri weren't able to fix the damage caused by Null
It drives me wild how certain key elements across games feel like they fit together but there's never quite enough Canon material to confirm it. But I guess that's why lore theorists get so much from these games.
This seems like a bit of a stretch. If they intended that, lorule probably would have been swallowed by rifts, not just fallen into dark
@@michaelmcfarland5903 yeah I agree. I guess after a certain amount of time due to Lorules condition Null could have easily broken out and swallowed everything but Lorules condition is just a result of the foundation of the world being destroyed.
@@Doodle1678 Do remember that Lorule is a _parallel dimension_ to Hyrule's dimension, meaning it's possible there's a parallel Null who was already vanquished by incarnations of Ravio and Hilda or there may be no Null whatsoever hence why it didn't took advantage of Lorule's Triforce no longer existing.
@@javiervasquez625 that is a possibility. But to me Lorules history diverges from Hyrule during the imprisoning war when they destroyed the triforce rather than sealing it. Prior to that it’s identical to Hyrule but I guess Null could have broken out sooner in Lorules timeline
What always amuses me about people saying that Ganon was getting stale (though regarding Ganon specifically I would say the monster was never very interesting) is that, before Tears of the Kingdom, it had been 17 YEARS since Ganondorf's last appearance in a mainline Zelda game, and Ganondorf as a Gerudo has only appeared in a total of 4 games. It had also been 17 years since Ganon appeared as anything more than a plot device rather than a character, and people tend to forget that. I don't think the problem is necessarily Ganondorf, or even Ganon, it's just that Nintendo took 17 years to put him in a new game and decided to do nothing terribly new or interesting with him. I would personally love to see Ganondorf come back, but have a game more deeply explore his motivations and connections with Link and Zelda, the way that Wind Waker kind of hinted at.
Imagine Zelda pulled a Bowser's Inside Story and all three wielders of the triforce all joined forces.
Ganondorf is not stale. BUT the entire entity Ganon is. A lot of people dont differentiate the two because of OOT, where Ganondorf transforms into Ganon as the final boss. It's hard for casuals to draw that distinction.
@@GonKillua85i've been a fan my entire life and i still don't fully "get" the distinction lol
@@GonKillua85 Ok, what even IS the Distinction between Ganon & Ganondorf? as in Narrative-wise what difference does it make that he's in Gerudo or Demon form?
@@Artista_Frustrado Dorf is scheming and machiavellian, Ganon is (usually) a mindless monster who attacks anything it sees with little signs of intelligence.
So basically, Zelda if it was made by Kirby developers?
No lol, Kirby isn't the only game in existence to have deep lore or have you fight ancient evil abominations.
@chrange9714 To be fair however, it is a Kirby staple at this point to have some dark matter that wants to destroy the world in almost every game. Another game that has a very similar trope is Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon, where
spoilers:
You also fight Dark Matter.
Void was totally a Kirby villain lol
yea null felt so kirby
@@cheesewrap That's not even true, you fight Dark Matter in three games that's it. You fight a clone of it in PR and Void just takes on the look of one in Star Allies.
I imagine they just got carried away when they made Hyrule, like-
"Alright, we locked Null away..."
"Hey Din, what if me and Farore decorated this thing with life and stuff?"
"What? Why?"
"Ehhhhhit's seems fun."
My friend and I came up with a similar headcanon that in Wind Waker’s backstory, Din and Farore flooded the world while Nayru was asleep lol
What seemed a bigger issue to me was when Tri was like, "Me and my friends will use the power of echoes to restore the world." Wait...so you're not taking things out of the rifts, you're just making echoes of everything and discarding the originals!???!?!?!
yeah Null simply devoured everything that falls into the void
My theory is that the entire world is made out of echos to begin with.
Well they DO properly rescue people that fall into rifts, it's just objects they make echoes of.
Something really funny to me is how Nulls entire thing about essentially being buried under the land of he world kinda parallels Spirit Tracks. With the rails being the literal chains that held the dark spirit in place
And Skyward Sword, with Demise having emerged from the ground with armies of monsters and been sealed back in the ground by Hylia.
It seems that Malladus, Demise, Vaati, Dark Link, etc. are all different expressions/forms/abstractions of Null's attempts to break free...
Kinda reminds me how in real world religions classical gods represented civilization if often suppressing or overthrowing ancient gods representing the scary and chaotic natural world.
This is also the prologue of The Wind Waker with Ganondorf literally escaping the Sacred Realm from _beneath the ground._ This rises the question of wether the Sacred Realm itself could be the Void in which Null was sealed away and if the Sacred Realm could also be the place where Demise and Malladus got imprisoned.
@@javiervasquez625 Would be odd to hide the Prime Energy in a temple inside the void, though?
(Remember, in OoT it was in the Temple of Light, in the Sacred Realm.)
Also, remember that in aLttP (which takes place before this game, given you see ruins of aLttP locations in EoW), you spend about 70% of the game running around in the Sacred Realm, rescuing maidens trapped in the Sacred Realm etc. to defeat Ganon. I doubt Null would have let anything so concrete survive in the Void for nearly that long (and longer, given Ganon was supposed to have been there a good while _before_ you ever gain access to the Dark World - which, to be completely clear in case you forgot, _is_ the Sacred Realm).
ARLO EATS BEDS?! Biggest Arlo lore bomb dropped casually just like that?!
An entity of primordial chaos that pre-exists creation was alluded to by Ganondorf in Tears of the Kingdom. His goal was to return the universe to that primordial chaos, or at least to move the world back in that direction.
Yet the "chaos" TotK Ganondof strived to achieved was one of _social darwinism_ where those who're strong and powerful dictate the fate of those who're weak and powerless, meanwhile Null sought the destruction of *Reality* itself devoid of existence. Their goals are very different from one another.
15:29 I disagree. I think they made it pretty clear that Link was doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes while we were playing Zelda going around and doing our thing.
Well, I can't imagine he'd just stand around and wait to be rescued.
Didn't they state he saved a few other kids that got sucked up into the rifts who ALSO lost their voices as a result? Or was that prior to him rescuing zelda? Either way dude definitely was in the fight, just probably elsewhere in hyrule shutting down smaller rifts.
@@darcidious99That was prior to rescuing Zelda
@@darcidious99 That was prior. He was trapped in the Stilled Realm from the first bout against Ganon to nearly the end of the game. But before the game began, he had gone on a full adventure leading to the 20 hearts and full Mysterious Crystal powerups on his weapons.
@@Marandahir Actually, I don't think he did have the full Mysterious Crystal powerups on his kit, I think they were only level 2. Which makes sense, because you can get Level 2 upgrades from the start, but level 3 upgrades come later. But the general point is right - Link definitely has had an adventure to get to the start of the game.
What TOTK did to make Ganon fresh was add a voice, first off, but also to combine various elements of previous versions together.
…I’m sure Null’s resemblance to Dark Matter creatures is entirely coincidental and won’t lead to every single lore and theory channel having to rewrite their thesis videos
Definetly not "coincidental" considering its a creation of Nintendo (who also created the Kirby series).
Yes that was implied.
@@javiervasquez625 Nintendo didn't create the Kirby series, Hal Lab did.
What? Nearly every other game has a villain besides Ganon.
Games where Ganon is not the villain: Zelda II, Link’s Awakening, Majora’s Mask, the Oracle games (unless linked), Four Swords, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword, Tri Force Heroes, and Echoes of Wisdom.
That’s over half.
I think Arlo might have fallen into the trap many of us have, and just been overwhelmed by the major 3D titles. They do tend to suck up the oxygen.
Technically skyward sword is kinda the origin of the evil that inhabits ganondorf, but apart from that, yeah. In fact, for whatever reason, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks were my only exposure to zelda as a kid, so i didnt actually fight gannon for ages.
I like the possible other interpretation that at one point there was life and universe and stuff but essentially Null won and devoured EVERYTHING. Then the goddesses stepped in and created everything as a redo
Hell, maybe the reason why the series' continuity is so freaking confusing is because Null keeps busting loose and devouring everything, so the goddesses box him up again and let the Tri re-stock the universe with echoes. Only the Tri don't always remember all the details or grasp their significance, so every game or two we get a new ZeldaVerse with the same signature themes and play elements, but an altered backstory, cast, and/or geography (Tri 1: "Hey, I forget... did the last version of Zora have frog faces or fins?" Tri 2: "I dunno, let's try some of each just to be on the safe side....").
@@sharondornhoff7563 Nah, i find that way too convoluted and unnecessarily teasing on Nintendo's part if they're attempting to further confuse the fandom with nonsensical lore.
If only they added two sentences with Null's lore we couldve had an explanation to the entire series and its adaptions
I also love how this game implies that this is kinda the first instance of the triforce being used. They don’t even have a name for it yet it’s just the “prime energy”
It's not.
The first time the Triforce was used was in game was in Skyward Sword, which predates the Kingdom of Hyrule.
In Echoes of Wisdom, there are a few things that indicate that this game takes place after A Link Between Worlds at least.
It's likely called the "Prime Energy" because the Triforce name has been forgotten in this era.
They clearly know about the Triforce already. Link has it on his shield. It could simply be the difference between what the Goddesses call it and what the Hylians call it.
I kinda took it in the opposite direction. That this game takes place so far past any other Zelda game that everyone’s forgotten what the Triforce was called! We see ruins of old Link To The Past dungeons and there’s a wide variety of races living together, so this game can’t take place SUPER early in the timeline, even if Null and the creation of Hyrule still outline the very beginning.
In the Japanese version it’s called something more like ultimate power which is similar to how it’s been described in other games. The prime energy thing is just a weird translation..
Well, there is no Master Sword in this game, either. We don’t REALLY know what predated Hylia raising Skyloft and all, right? Do we really know there was no “Kingdom of Hyrule” before Skyward Sword?
Also, we’ve never heard anything about rifts, or children being ‘stolen away’ before this game, where it’s implied that that has been a constant thing ever since Null was sealed. There really could be an argument for this game appearing at, or at least near, the beginning of the timeline!
I'm glad arlo's talking about story stuff! He rarely does outside out of Paper Mario and it's nice to see ❤!
Null is basically Tlaltecuhtli, an Aztec beast that is the earth we walk on. According to Aztec myth, Quetzalcoatl killed him to make the land and to keep him from eating what he was creating, but he still can resurrect to eat everything if he gets too hungry, so he requires blood sacrifice to keep him from devouring everything. I did not expect an eldritch entity that shares a similar backstory to an Aztec monster from Nintendo, but I'm happy to be surprised
So i take it you've never played a Kirby game? (with some Pokemon on the side).
@@javiervasquez625 I've played all pokemon game series. But not Kirby. Pokemon is from gamefreak, Nintendo pays to use their games
@@javiervasquez625 Kirby is technically from Hal, but I get what you mean.
I literally screamed so loud when that wall broke and i saw a pair of creepy looking arms reaching out😭 interesting zelda lore is so back
Oh yes!! How long did we have to wait to get a unforseen and cool twist in a new Zelda game
Huh. Sounds to me like the Zelda developers looked up some Aztec mythology and decided "Yes. That. Good."
completely in character too because they LOVE ancient mythology if the botw duology is anything to go off of LMAO
@@yggdrasilsaltar They've been loving ancient mythology since like ever back in Ocarina of Time with all them dungeon architecture referencing cultures from across the world.
3:10
I think the narrator from the Brothership trailer rubbed off on Arlo.
HAHAHAHA 😂😂
“Jazzy jumps!”
To be fair, his narration is so contagious and full of joy🥰
And I’m all for it, that narrator definitely is having a real good time.
Oh my 😳
BAHAHA bro changed his career and I love it
We've seen this a lot recently. The idea that void is the antithesis of everything and it's beyond good and evil. It's a current story line for Warcraft, Guild Wars, and Fortnite. Hell, even Multiverses, the WB smash fighter, has this story line. Which is interesting as such themes would imply the moving away from a 'good vs evil' western dichotomy to a more eastern worldview.
yeah when I first saw the way Ganon got beat so fast I KNEW something bigger was involved. The intro to the game reminded me so much of how SMRPG began. When they revealed what the inside of the rifts were like, the fact it looked so eerily similar to Pokemon's Distortion World had me like "What the hell is even going on???" I was initially going to give the game a pass but the preview of the rift worlds was ultimately what sold me. I HAD to know what was happening. In the end this was the best thing they could do for Zelda given her bloodline connection to the gods.
Funny the one game I didn't buy changes the lore's foundations
If you like 2d Zelda you should definitely play it!
@@KGDavis-fi2tq now I *have* to buy it lol
I'd recommend buying it from a game store, preferably used but even new aint bad. Its a good game, but personally I cant see myself replaying it ever again.
If you do wanna keep it, there ya go, but if ya dont you can always return it for some credit or something.
@@darcidious99 Yeah support local mom&pops store
4:23 bro what
BEFORE A SINGLE BREATH PASSES MY LIPS
Here is the transcription of the text in the image:
---
"Is suddenly in front of me. It moves with lightning speed, settled anew and looking straight into my eyes before a single breath passes my lips. I halt, frozen in place as it regards me with that shifting, unseeable face. I can sense without seeing an intensity, and this is matched in the creature’s low voice. It tells me that I sought the tower as well. It asks me if reaching the tower is truly what I seek. Even if my fear I take a moment to feel inside myself, probing the question and following the paths of my own heart… and it seems that each time I explore the idea, my conviction is stronger still. I say that I have never been more certain of anything in my life. I *will* reach the tower. The creature seems to nod and tells me to follow. I look back at the shadow from whence this thing sprung, that inky black abyss, and I know that it is where it is about to bring me. I very nearly scream and break into a sprint at the very thought of entering such a fathomless place… but then the words of the old man float gently over my ears, *The Realm of Shadow.* This place… somehow. Then I only nod, knowing intuitively that this is enough. And suddenly I am there, surrounded by a pure black, darker than any place on the earthly plane, infinitely deeper than the mere absence of light. The creature is beside me, somehow stark against the black, looking forward. I follow its gaze and begin to see other creatures emerge as though from a cloud of smoke. At the sight of the very first I must stifle a scream, and each I lay eyes upon is more shapeless and horrifying than the last. My mind struggles to comprehend what it is seeing. When I am surrounded by these things the first creature turns to me. It says that every being in this place sought the tower. This is what I will find at journey's end. And now a new and deeper horror grips me. As I look upon these things, these things I can scarcely call creatures, I know with certainty that its words are truth. This is indeed the fate that awaits me if I reach the tower. And yet even now, gazing upon this void, I cannot divorce myself from the need to continue, to reach it at all costs. In this moment I have never felt lost or afraid. My voice weak, I say that I need to leave. I look to the thing beside me and I cannot see a smile but somehow I sense one. It says that it already told me I wouldn’t go anywhere. And suddenly the things emerging from the impossible dark are moving toward me. I can sense malice and glee pouring from them like a river. I wish to run, but there is nowhere to run. I wish to fight but cannot move. The thing that brought me here laughs and lunges forward… and then suddenly there is a flash of blinding light, as bright as the void is dark, and I shield my eyes. When I can manage to peak between my fingers I see that a great split has opened up in the realm itself, blue sky and daylight pouring through, pure white at the edges. Something moves through the gap and suddenly the thing beside me has split in half, both sides disintegrating in white light like a thin paper burned in a hot fire. In its place is a figure with familiar bronze armor, holding a spear with wispy white smoke trailing from its tip. Before I can react, K’Lenn throws a ball of white light toward the other creatures and it explodes in another dazzling flash. Half of them disintegrate, the others cowering and fleeing. K’Lenn grabs my hand and all at once we are back in the world outside shadow. Blue sky and green grass stretch in every direction. It takes me several minutes to regain my composure, but K’Lenn is unfazed. Eventually I catch my breath and thank her. So you were right, it seems, show me where the journey ends. I nod. She asks if I will return to her stronghold. The alternative, continuing on this quest, is unspoken. What I am feeling is beyond words. None, despite what I have just seen, just survived… I shake my head. My quest must continue. I do not know why but it must. She nods. Her mount streaks down from the blue sky and she bounds onto it without another word. Before they have even disappeared from view I turn to look at the tower off in the distance. I can see no other landmarks, only grass, sky and the tower. I take one step, and then..."
Is Arlo writing a book or something? Cause I would read what he’s writing (after reading the transcription)
Also, he doesn’t do Today’s Recommendation, so he is probably making it (or someone he knows
@@tomhoward4906 So Arlo just threw in a snippet of the novel he's writing...?
4:23 What does this mean Arlo?
TOTK's story was weird yeah. I dunno what i feel about gannondorf beeing back.
But i think the whole time travel angle was worth it, simply for the Zelda reveal alone. And how that reveal affects how we perceived the moment of gannandorf eating that thing (u know what i mean)
I understand folks like to work on the timeline, but in my opinion, EoW is clearly its own universe. The cosmology is so different from any other, and the fact that rifts have existed for literally all of time, and have been a hazard to the people forever.
The rifts existing for all time could just be a recorded history situation, where the characters believe that rifts always existed because they have no way of knowing when they first appeared.
Exactly what je tho said.
Sounds kinda like Knull the Symbiote God who existed in the primordial nothingness before the Celestials came to our empty universe and started created stuff… and Knull took it personally, started destroying their stuff and killing them until he eventually got locked up inside a planet.
And then they have the nerve to sue palworld.
@@RetroGoosen-ux8tyhilarious 😂
As soon as Arlo said "Null" I was like.... that's Knull. And then they basically do his being contained within Klyntar
@@gameinsane4718 Don't forget the Profound Darkness from the Phantasy Star series...
SPOILERS FOR PHANTASY STAR 4
...the entity of cosmic destruction that was sealed away by its counterpart, The Great Light, after a massive battle, with the Algol solar system that the original series took place in being created as a lock on its prison, which it tries to destroy by sending out tendrils of its consciousness in the form of the Dark Force whenever it weakens every millennium.
Null is a pretty easy name choice for an endless devourer from the primordial void, Dimension 20 has that too
This makes me think about Lorule's triforce. They destroyed theirs. Does this mean Lorule was on the verge of being consumed Null before Link and Zelda wished for a new triforce for them?
4:23 can we talk about this?
The rifts are the same cracks where demons come from mention in the skyward sword intro!
One of the thing coolest things about Null is that this game almost certainly takes place on the Downfall Timeline, sometime between Tri Force Heroes and The Legend of Zelda 1 (The Hyrule Fantasy).
That means on every other timeline branch, Null could still be a villain. We saw this with Vaati showing up on both the Downfall and Child Timeline branches (leading many to believe if they ever do another Four Swords game, it would be an interquel between Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker - given that the Four Sword and its sanctuary and Vaati's seal would all be lost at the bottom of the ocean in the latter game.
It might even become a trope for a while that games with Zelda as the protagonist face Null, given a desire for the Tri Rod and copy mechanics. They could recycle the concept for the Child Timeline, the Adult Timeline, and possibly even the Calamity Timeline, if it is indeed a fourth timeline splitting off instead from the time travel schenanigans at the end of Skyward Sword, given the heavy similarities between the backstory (and backstory Sages) for Tears of the Kingdom and those of Ocarina of Time (and yet their impossibility of equivalence). Like literally, the Sages wearing Vah Ruta, Vah Rudania, and Vah Naboris' ancient Zonaite masks look like they're Ruto, Darunia, and Nabooru, respectively underneath them. And of course then there's this second Rauru, and the idea that the Kingdom of Hyrule didn't exist prior to this story. It seems to me that like how A Link to the Past, Twilight Princess, and The Wind Waker all seem to be parallel events across the three timelines splitting off from Ocarina of Time, Tears of the Kingdom is a parallel story to Ocarina of Time, splitting off earlier. So if that's the case, Null could still become a problem in that timeline too!
Mind you, Null exists _outside Time and Space,_ meaning it's possible there can only be ONE Null at all times regardless of the existence of split timelines. When the Null from Echoes of Wisdom was destroyed, that prevented it from threathening any other potential timeline.
I love how this game just went full on Kirby by starting out all cute and charming and then ending with an elder god as the main evil/final boss.
And by having an incredible final boss theme
4:23 What is this about???
Considering this game wasnt made by nintendo inhouse but instead outsourced to a different team, it makes sense that the story does something a bit different
Feels almost like a Kirby story.
Zelda fans: Ugh! Same old bog standard Zelda stuff!
Also Zelda fans when they get games that aren't that: THIS ISN'T EVEN ZELDA ANYMORE!
I'd say the story matters within the context of the game. It doesn't matter whether it fits with the rest of the series or not (most of the time) since each game is a standalone adventure with a different Link, Zelda, Ganon, etc.
Also, Ganon being played out only applies to the 3D games. With the isometric Zelda games we had the Nightmares, Onox, Veran, Vaati, Bellum, Malladus and Yuga.
Yeah. I do like that they want them all to connect in some way, but they're really just chapters in a grand adventure to me. Some good, some bad, but all zelda.
Officially, each Ganon is the same one (except possibly Tears of the Kingdom's Ganondorf who just plain doesn't fit into the timeline, and calls Breath of the Wild's Ganon into question).
There'd be a lot less concern over how individual games (fail to) fit into the wider canon if Nintendo themselves hadn't insisted that they all fit into an official timeline that's totally existed for years - decades by this point - and what do you mean the Downfall Timeline seems like a clumsy attempt to patch over the cracks with something that doesn't hold up to a second thought?
well, its only a different Link and Zelda. with the exception of the BotW and TotK Ganon, all the others are the Ocarina of Time Ganon being revived or breaking some seal.
The problem to me is the timeline is just more confusing than anything, I think the idea of having them all be "myths/legends" according to how botw/totk timeline views them makes sense since it gives them a chance to hit the reset button on the whole shoehorned timeline idea. Now they can start from scratch and either consider every game/sequel their own tale, or they can really commit to a timeline...
Either way though I hope the story quality for 3d zelda improves because good lord totk/botw left a lot to be desired.
@@darcidious99 you don't even need to get into timeline shenanigans to note Ganon being the same one in most of the games. He's only mentioned as a new dude on the scene for ToTK flashbacks and in OoT. Every other game he's some old evil breaking loose or already been around. The games he's unsealed in usually have direct references to the 7 sages of OoT.
The timeline shenanigans only come into it to explain how the same bastard dies seemingly for good in Zelda 1, Twilight Princess, and Wind Waker.
Those are his one and only death, just his only one in each timeline.
Actually after checking. It does seem the Ganon from four swords adventure is a reincarnation. So there are 3 Ganons, with OoT ganon being the villain of 6 games plus being the backdrop threat of Zelda 2.
What I realized is that the usual Ganon hijack basically happened in reverse, this time it's the new villain that took Ganon's place
13:45 I still hold this is more true about OOT and SS than TOTK, as both retcon the lore established in a link to the past.
If you ignore both, TOTK is a better start to the downfall timeline than the one we currently have.
It's likely a source of Gloom and Malice. They can it back to Demise and Demons.
We get non-ganons every Zelda generation: Link’s Awakening, Majora’s Mask, Oracle Of Seasons And Ages, Four Swords, The Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword, Tri Force Heroes.
4:23 did arlo put his YA novel in this split second blip on a raycon ad
Here’s the text: “IS SUDDENLY IN FRONT OF ME. IT MOVES WITH LIGHTNING SPEED, SETTLED ANEW AND LOOKING STRAIGHT INTO MY EYES BEFORE A SINGLE BREATH PASSES MY LIPS. I HALT, FROZEN IN PLACE AS IT REGARDS ME WITH THAT SHIFTING, UNSEEABLE FACE. I CAN SENSE WITHOUT SEEING AN INTENSITY, AND THIS IS MATCHED IN THE CREATURE'S LOW VOICE. IT TELLS ME THAT IT SOUGHT THE TOWER AS WELL. IT ASKS ME IF REACHING THE TOWER IS TRULY WHAT I SEEK. EVEN IN MY FEAR I TAKE A MOMENT TO FEEL INSIDE MYSELF, PROBING THE QUESTION AND FOLLOWING THE PANGS OF MY OWN HEART...AND IT SEEMS THAT EACH TIME I EXPLORE THE IDEA, MY CONVICTION IS STRONGER STILL. I SAY THAT I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE CERTAIN OF ANYTHING IN MY LIFE. I WILL REACH THE TOWER. THE CREATURE SEEMS TO NOD AND TELLS ME TO FOLLOW. I LOOK BACK AT THE SHADOW FROM WHENCE THIS THING SPRUNG, THAT INKY BLACK ABYSS, AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS WHERE IT IS ABOUT TO BRING ME. I VERY NEARLY SCREAM AND BREAK INTO A SPRINT AT THE VERY THOUGHT OF ENTERING SUCH A FATHOMLESS PLACE...BUT THEN THE WORDS OF THE OLD MAN FLOAT GENTLY OVER MY EARS, THE REALM OF SHADOW. THIS CALMS ME, SOMEHOW. THEN I ONLY NOD, KNOWING INTUITIVELY THAT THIS IS ENOUGH. AND SUDDENLY I AM THERE. SURROUNDED BY PURE BLACK, DARKER THAN ANY PLACE ON THE EARTHLY PLANE, INFINITELY DEEPER THAN THE MERE ABSENCE OF LIGHT. THE CREATURE IS BESIDE ME, SOMEHOW STARK AGAINST THE BLACK, LOOKING FORWARD. I FOLLOW ITS GAZE AND BEGIN TO SEE OTHER CREATURES EMERGE AS THOUGH FROM A CLOUD OF SMOKE. AT THE SIGHT OF THE VERY FIRST I MUST STIFLE A SCREAM, AND EACH I LAY EYES UPON IS MORE SHAPELESS AND HORRIFYING THAN THE LAST. MY MIND STRUGGLES TO COMPREHEND WHAT IT IS SEEING. WHEN I AM SURROUNDED BY THESE THINGS THE FIRST CREATURE TURNS TO ME. IT SAYS THAT EVERY BEING IN THIS PLACE SOUGHT THE TOWER. THIS IS WHAT I WILL FIND AT JOURNEY'S END, AND NOW A NEW AND EVEN DEEPER HORROR GRIPS ME. AS I LOOK UPON THESE THINGS, THESE THINGS I CAN SCARCELY CALL CREATURES, I KNOW WITH CERTAINTY THAT ITS WORDS ARE TRUTH. THIS IS INDEED THE FATE THAT AWAITS ME IF I REACH THE TOWER, AND YET EVEN NOW, GAZING UPON THIS VOID, I CANNOT DIVORCE MYSELF FROM THE NEED TO CONTINUE, TO REACH IT AT ALL COSTS. IN THIS MOMENT I HAVE NEVER FELT MORE LOST OR AFRAID. MY VOICE WEAK, I SAY THAT I NEED TO LEAVE. I LOOK TO THE THING BESIDE ME AND I CANNOT SEE A SMILE BUT SOMEHOW I SENSE ONE. IT SAYS THAT IT ALREADY TOLD ME I WOULDN'T BE GOING ANYWHERE. AND SUDDENLY THE THINGS EMERGING FROM THE IMPOSSIBLE DARK ARE MOVING TOWARD ME. I CAN SENSE MALICE AND GLEE POURING FROM THEM LIKE A RIVER. I WISH TO RUN, BUT THERE IS NOWHERE TO RUN. WISH TO FIGHT BUT CANNOT MOVE. THE THING THAT BROUGHT ME HERE LAUGHS AND LUNGES FORWARD...AND SUDDENLY THERE IS A FLASH OF BLINDING LIGHT, AS BRIGHT AS THE VOID IS DARK, AND I SHIELD MY EYES. WHEN I CAN MANAGE TO PEAK BETWEEN MY FINGERS I SEE THAT A GREAT SPLIT HAS OPENED UP IN THE REALM ITSELF, BLUE SKY AND DAYLIGHT POURING THROUGH, PURE WHITE AT THE EDGES. SOMETHING MOVES THROUGH THE GAP AND SUDDENLY THE THING BESIDE ME HAS SPLIT IN HALF, BOTH SIDES DISINTEGRATING IN WHITE LIGHT LIKE A THIN PAPER BURNED IN A HOT FIRE, IN ITS PLACE IS A FIGURE WITH FAMILIAR BRONZE ARMOR, HOLDING A SPEAR WITH WISPY WHITE SMOKE TRAILING FROM ITS TIP. BEFORE I CAN EVEN REACT K'LENN THROWS A BALL OF WHITE LIGHT TOWARD THE OTHER CREATURES AND IT EXPLODES IN ANOTHER DAZZLING FLASH. HALF OF THEM DISINTEGRATE, THE OTHERS COWERING AND FLEEING. K'LENN GRABS MY HAND AND ALL AT ONCE WE ARE BACK IN THE WORLD OUTSIDE SHADOW. BLUE SKY AND GREEN GRASS STRETCH IN EVERY DIRECTION, IT TAKES ME SEVERAL MINUTES TO REGAIN MY COMPOSURE, BUT K'LENN IS UNPHASED, EVENTUALLY | CATCH MY BREATH AND THANK HER. SO YOU HAVE SEEN IT. SHE SAYS. SEEN WHERE THE JOURNEY ENDS. I NOD. SHE ASKS IF I WILL RETURN TO HER STRONGHOLD. THE ALTERNATIVE, CONTINUING ON THIS QUEST, IS UNSPOKEN.
WHAT I AM FEELING IS BEYOND WORDS. AND SOMEHOW, DESPITE WHAT I HAVE JUST SEEN, JUST SURVIVED.../ SHAKE MY HEAD. MY QUEST MUST CONTINUE. I DO NOT KNOW WHY, BUT IT MUST. SHE NODS. HER MOUNT STREAKS DOWN FROM THE BLUE SKY AND SHE JUMPS ON AND SOARS OFF WITHOUT ANOTHER WORD.
BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN DISAPPEARED FROM VIEW I TURN TO LOOK AT THE TOWER OFF IN THE DISTANCE. I CAN SEE NO OTHER LANDMARKS, ONLY GRASS, SKY, AND THE TOWER. I TAKE ONE STEP AND THEN” (sorry it’s all uppercase that’s just how my phone copied it)
I enjoy when a Zelda game has a decent story, but by the time they got around to releasing the "official" timeline for all of them it was really, *really* obvious that it was just some bullshit they made up to avoid having to admit that they just hadn't actually given the matter a whole lot of thought in the decades they'd been cranking out these games. I had my share of long debates with friends over where Link to the Past fit into the grand scheme, but by Ocarina of Time I'd pretty much stopped worrying about it. Still, it's pretty neat to see them putting some effort into what could have been a throwaway title. 🙂
Nintendo has put out a dozen games with the plot of “Bowser kidnaps Peach.” They aren’t exactly BioWare.
BioWare isn't exactly BioWare after what EA did to them lol
BioWare of 2010, creator of the Mass Effect and Dragon Age trilogies, is long dead.
I've never liked the stories in Zelda games, but until this moment, I'd never heard anyone agree that Nintendo just doesn't put much effort into their stories. Feels good to hear it from Arlo of all people.
I think the tri creatures are the spirits that become koroks. They make similar sounds and also have unique faces that resemble them
“All this talk of beds is making me…hungry!” I don’t know why such a small, throwaway joke made me laugh so much 😂
I want a soap box about the difference between lore, story, and characters, in writing.
Echoes is like...7/10 Lore, 4/10 story, 8/10 characters.
Me personally, never care for Lore.
I want Characters, and even the most basic Zelda stories have great characters in small roles.
Massive lore drop: Arlo eats beds
Ohmygosh was the “before” for the sponsorship in reference to the Brothership trailer Narration?!! Amazing
I'm a fan of tears story on its own merits personally but I'm also a fan of new lore or building a story around lore. each zelda feels like a clean slayer anyways so it didn't bother me.
It's wild how different my experience was from people who gave up on Zelda storytelling because I have never disliked the story in BotW or TotK, so EoW having a strong story was completely expected for me
"We don't want Kingdom Hearts" speak for yourself, I'm a lorehound and I absolutely love KH lol
I liked Breath of the Wild but Tears of the Kingdom didn’t do it.. it wasn’t as memorable. It had good moments like Ruaru sealing away Ganon. Loved that. But it just wasn’t all that unique
Good luck pausing to catch the single frame at 4:23.
Because I have too much time on my hands, it reads:
TOWARD THE OTHER CREATURES AND IT EXPLODES IN ANOTHER DAZZLING FLASH. HALF OF THEM DISINTEGRATE, THE OTHERS COWERING AND FLEEING, K'LENN GRABS MY HAND AND ALL AT ONCE WE ARE BACK IN THE WORLD OUTSIDE SHADOW, BLUE SKY AND GREEN GRASS STRETCH IN EVERY DIRECTION, IT TAKES ME SEVERAL MINUTES TO REGAIN MY COMPOSURE, BUT K'LENN IS UNPHASED. EVENTUALLY I CATCH MY BREATH AND THANK HER. SO YOU HAVE SEEN IT, SHE SAYS. SEEN WHERE THE JOURNEY ENDS, I NOD. SHE ASKS IF I WILL RETURN TO HER STRONGHOLD. THE ALTERNATIVE, CONTINUING ON THIS QUEST, IS UNSPOKEN. WHAT I AM FEELING IS BEYOND WORDS. AND SOMEHOW, DESPITE WHAT I HAVE JUST SEEN, JUST SURVIVED...I SHAKE MY HEAD. MY QUEST MUST CONTINUE. I DO NOT KNOW WHY. BUT IT MUST. SHE NODS, HER MOUNT STREAKS DOWN FROM THE BLUE SKY AND SHE JUMPS ON AND SOARS OFF WITHOUT ANOTHER WORD. BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN DISAPPEARED FROM VIEW I TURN TO LOOK AT THE TOWER OFF IN THE DISTANCE. I CAN SEE NO OTHER LANDMARKS. ONLY GRASS, SKY, AND THE TOWER. I TAKE ONE STEP AND THEN
And then it cuts off. No clue what that’s about. 🤷♀️
...geez, Arlo's really losing his touch with his sponsor stuff...
You can use the < and > buttons to go frame by frame when it's paused. I don't get what it's a reference to though
@@colindoyle4370 Who said it is a "reference"?
Arlo is no stranger to original content in his sponsored bits.
i feel like the name and design of tri is pretty clever because "tri"s are what people call the triangles that make up 3D models, meaning everything that exists is made of tris
I didn't know Arlo was one of us grumpy old timeline snobs.
This is some Kirby lore type shit. Hell yeah!
DUDE I JUST REALIZED THAT'S WHY THE TRIFORCE HAS A HOLE IN THE MIDDLE, NULL REPRESENTED THE CONTAINED HOLE IN THE TRIFORCE
My only question for the game was why the Triforce was called Prime Energy.
Most lore versed fans believe that's the specific term used by the _Golden Goddesses,_ whereas the mortals of the Zelda world refer to it as the Triforce. It's nothing more than a simple change of terminology between the goddesses and the people they created.
I can't say for everyone else, but I for one liked ToTK's story! I never expected anything ground breaking, and I do as they asked and ignore the continuity, every Zelda game to me is a unique World.
And the ending man, fighting Ganondorf was honestly the best fight in the entire series! But even I gotta admit, reusing the SAME flashback for every companion felt very cheap, even by Nintendo's standards. Still a close second best Zelda game to me!
I absolutely loved the whole botw/totk story by itself. However, it just made things really confusing in the Zelda lore as a whole
Arlo lore guys write down that he eats beds! Really enjoyed the gameplay on the last few Arlo videos but the stories have really left me wanting lately. Feels great that they listened and dropped some lore bits for us Story guys. We're story guys! Of course we love it when he eats beds!
i’m not here for this TotK slander
What if I told you that canonically speaking- Star Trek, The Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, Futurama, Mario, Sonic & Zelda all exist within the same universe? Star Trek did a crossover with The simpsons, who did a crossover with Futurama, who found Mario and the Nintendo gang in ‘Anthology of Interest II’. We know from smash Bros, Zelda, Mario exist in the same universe. This ultimately means that Q or the Borg from Star Trek the Next Generation could be responsible for everything on the planet / dimensions of Hyrule 😂
It's so funny how they seemed to want to use iconic locations from Zelda past, but also didn't want to. So instead of Lon Lon Ranch, we get Hyrule Ranch. And instead of Lost Woods, we get Eternal Forest.
It also makes sense in universe, names change all the time.
I can really see why the goddesses created an entire reality to contain Null... If you just hold him, then the entire system will crash when anything accesses where he's held (& it sounds like a certain amount of random access was happening with little bits of creation occurring)... So they needed to add some exception handling to keep things going smoothly, but where does the exception go? This basically just keeps spiraling outwards & adding layer upon layer until you have an entire reality... And the more complex the system, the more errors there are, so you have to just keep patching the holes as they appear...
Personally I’m fully on board with the idea that most of Ganons nonsensical resurrections as a “Dumber” boar beast, like Four swords adventures and the original legend of Zelda, are Null echoes. With Null being the “Origin point” for all evil, allowing Demise and Ganon to exist, and once Ganon falls Null resurrects him as an echo, a more direct puppet.
I am sorry, but I will always at least partially defend TotK's story, albeit solely because of how awesome they made the climax. I teared up a little once I realized just where - or rather, who - I had gotten the Master Sword from. I don't mind that they "downgraded" Ganon, because getting to fight him in dude form allowed for the "Oh God" moment when you find out that he's powerful enough to parry/flurry rush you right back. And maybe I was just oblivious, but I did not clock the idea of Ganon turning himself into a dragon like until the cutscene started - and fighting him from atop our own dragon was just too dang cool. Easily my favorite finale of any Zelda game ever - possibly even compared to all the rest combined. (To be fair, I never did beat Wind Waker, so I am open to that last statement changing.)
What I find more interesting about Echoes of Wisdom is how it recontextualises Alttp and Albw. A lot of people used to speculate about what happened to the gerudo in the downfall timeline or the gorons or the sea zora. And this game answers that question by going "all the ocarina races were just hanging out slightly off-screen". This is most notable with the Gerudo desert, which includes Alttp's Desert of Mystery as a small beginning area, including the broken down Desert Temple
Additionally, it addresses a mistranslation in the original games. "Death Mountain" in the previous alttp games wasn't actually Death Mountain but Hebra in the original japanese (though strangely its Dark World counterpart was called Death Mountain). That's why this game calls it Hebra. Additionally, this game contextualises the split in Alttp's Hebra as two different mountains, the one with Turtle Rock being Lanayru apparently
3:10 The intro into the sponsored segment was definitely Arlo trying to channel the style of the Brothership trailer
Null as a concept could've been the tool that ties everything together.
1. Where do enemies go after they're destroyed?
Into the null and are pulled back from the null by dark forces.
2. How can it ever be the same hyrule but its not but it is?
Sometimes the land falls into the void and is recreated by the goddesses. Not each time is it the same but traditions, legends, myths, etc live on despite new lands.
Etc
whenever you say hubba-whaaaaa like Frank Oz it makes me uncontrollably happy. thank you Arlo
Man, null realllly feels like a kirby villain, both lore and design-wise. Not that that's at all a bad thing, I'm thrilled to see zelda fighting what's essentially physical manifestation of entropy in the form of a little bell-shaped goober critter
8:56 looks like arlo has a little shadow halo lol
Yeah, but you already know they will never mention Null or any of the lore in this game ever again, and they're just gonna pretend nothing in this game ever happened, just like they do with 90% of the game-specific lore already. When it comes to Zelda lore, I never consider the impact a game's lore has on the series as a whole. I only look at the game as an isolated story (or group of stories if there are direct sequels), because that's basically how Nintendo treats the story in Zelda games anyways.
When it comes to the Echoes of Wisdom lore as an isolated story, it doesn't really hit for me. It just feels like a Kirby story: cute little one-off mascot character juxtaposed with ancient unspeakable cosmic horror of the week. It's nice that they brought back the three goddesses at least. I don't know how they made Null feel so generic and uninspired, though, for being a cosmic horror and all. Honestly, Kirby does it better, and I don't think anyone really likes Kirby for the story.
Gonna have to contend with you on that last line considering the games post-RTDL, but yeah. Zelda isn't great at continuity between games. Some of the isolated games are pretty nice, though. (Kirby doesn't have much of a set timeline too, outside of Dededevelopment and a few rare plot elements like the Mirror or the Halberd sinking.)
Even if we do try to apply this a lore across the whole series... so what? It's a kinda cool concept, sure, but it doesn't really change anything or offer new insight into anything else that happens elsewhere in the series. Outside of its own game, this new lore is just fluff.
When I encountered this for myself I shouted out loud, "That was so cool!" Now Null can join the ranks of Majora, Nightmare, Vatii and Dark Link as truly different Zelda antagonists! Honorable nods to Demise, Girahim, Yuga and Zant, though those are All either gannon minions or gannon preludes so don't quiiite count.
Free my homie Null that demonic entity did nothing wrong. Dude was just vibing amidst the void until the goddesses had to come into existence and force the world to be made around him.
My only real question is where Hylia plays into all of this. We have the 3 original goddesses being mentioned again which is nice, but like... Where did Hylia come into being? Unless I missed it which is entirely possible
At this point I kinda regard "unifying the Zelda timeline" the same way I do "unifying the Santa timeline". It's an interesting intellectual exercise seeing which bits can fit with which other bits, but the idea of connecting it all is nonsense, because that's just not how stories work unless they're deliberately written that way by the author, and the Zelda games are clearly not.
Agreed! The Zelda timeline was made to sell copies of the historia and not genuinely create interconnected story
This. It's fun for fans to theorize, but I've never believed the game devs paid much attention to it.
TotK Ganondorf is actually really cool if consider the idea that he was actually Demise the whole time, and that the ancient war shown in the TotK flashbacks is in fact the original war between Demise and Hylia AKA Sonia.
It's actually a pretty easy idea to justify, especially when you consider that so much of what the Zelda community knows about Demise is inaccurate translation information. In the Japanese, it's never actually stated Ganon is the reincarnation of Demise, just that Demise's hatred for the goddess will live on past him. Demon's are called a "tribe" not a "race" and the Demon king is never actually named, just referred to as "The One of the End" or "Bringer of Demise/apocalypse"
I personally subscribe to the idea that totk Ganondorf would have been the Demon king from Skyward Sword, if not for Zelda changing history and diverting the timeline.
I mean, the world wasn't _just_ created to seal away Null. It does say the Goddesses "could not abide" his desctructiveness of the newly-forming world. They wasnted to see the world form, but it couldn't when Null was still free, so they killed two birds with one stone and created a world that was also a cage.
Maybe I'm really late to the party here, but... people didn't like the story of ToTK? I thought it was really good for what it was. Also the timeline was never necessary, I really don't care if games fit into it, and everything (besides direct sequels) can be good on its own without respect to any other stories.
I think Null is a great antagonist for Zelda specifically. Zelda is a reincarnated form of thr Goddess Hylia (or at least a descendant). It makes sense for her villain to be another divine being pulling cosmic strings.
In this light, Link and Ganon are good enemies for one another as well. They are both spirits that have been selected by an ancient more powerful being to carry on their mission.
I don't know about anyone else, but I think canonizing the Zelda timeline was the WORST thing to happen to the series. I've always hated it, never understood why Zelda diehards insisted that it be official, & now that it is they like to throw hissyfits whenever something doesn't fit neatly into it. But the thing I hate the MOST is that the timeline is now a genie that came be put back in the bottle, it's never going away despite the fact that Zelda is worse off for it.
I think fixing the problem with the timeline is simpler than you think - all it would take is for Nintendo to say "Yeah, we thought we'd figured out the timeline, but it turned out we just didn't have enough red string. Some games connect together, but there's no universal timeline for the entire franchise."
One thing that bugs me is that there's some major discrepancies between the english and japanese translations that makes timeline discussion really fraught. Like in the original japanese, Skyward Sword makes no claims or implications what so ever that Ganondorf is reincarnated from Demise. the connection between the two is very nebulous and up to interpretation in the original text. His name isn't even "Demise" he's never actually named, he's just given the title "Demon King/Tyrant Being/Bringer of the end/Person of Demise/person of Apocolypse". you have people insisting on timeline "facts", when most of them don't even know what the original intentions of the writers even were.
I could be wrong, but im pretty sure that the fact we get to converse with the golden godesses is its own lore revalation in and of itself. To my knowledge, prior to echoes of wisdom, they had never made their presence known directly, and it was up in the air if they even still existed or had become the triforce after creation. The closest we ever got was entities like the twilight princess light spirits or skyward sword dragons, who had similar names but were very clearly their own beings
i was able to 100% my game the day before this video was post
6:15 they did make ganon into a big bad dragon. Which is new.
But that was only for the climax, the villain of the game is ganondorf not draganon
Obviously Nintendo wouldn't go for that angle, but I think it would be awesome if Ganon was more in the game as a supporting character and unexpected pragmatic ally. "I hate you, but that null guy is a bigger threat right now" kind of thing
Can we talk for a minute about how Link beat back this Eldritch One Below All Void demon back with a damn stick when Null first appeared?! A STICK! Literally the most boss move in any Zelda game
I love the idea of personifying the void before creation as a villain
Glad Im not the only one who was losing his mind when they straight up talk about the creation of the world with completely new context now. They were cooking so hard with the lore in this game. Didnt expect that at all but Im so glad they did especially after totk
Cooking? Who f@#$ing cares and stop stealing black, American vernacular. That is not how you use that
They should make the next Zelda, without a story. Purposely NO STORY. All Exploration and events/encounters.
It has already been established in link between worlds that the triforce is actually necessary to hold their world together. That is why Lorule was literally falling apart after they destroyed their triforce. If it wasn't for Zelda's compassion to share Hyrule's triforce with them then they would have been doomed.
I love the totk story but that's because i also love the mind games i had to play to find it.
Yeah the story really caught me off guard too. Super weird how it’s not called the triforce and instead the Prime Energy. Logan Paul and KSI would love this game.
@KingYote Demonic new age spirituality. Always self indulgent
Ngl I was super happy that the Triforce/prime energy was relevant again
Beds make you.... hungry?
Arlo.... I have questions.
after the destruction of Null, the forming lives in the hollow earth can now form freely, maybe it's where other worlds are, the flipside of Hyrule could be Lorule, it could be Termina, it could be The Depths, who knows really
the golden goddesses created the world, and then left behind a "force" of "Tris"
the "Tri Force" if you will
It's the Majin buu of zelda
It kinda makes sense that theres an eldritch abomination in the center of the planet that eats reality if released. The loz cosmology is freaking nightmare like real mythology.