How To Change Your Bite Point Or Free Stroke ( Spongy Brake ) Shimano or SRAM Hydraulic Disc Brakes
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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OK, I've worked on disc brakes for IDK 25 years? I have every possible bleed kit, and I have never tried this. I took my wheel of and lightly squeezed lever until the opening closer than it was. I put my wheel back and was amazed! what simple fix. Thank You. BTW XTR trail brakes.
Thank you. I'm sure I'm not the first person to work this out. I just happened to notice it worked like this by accident. Glad to have helped out!
question....how u manage to slip the disc between the narrow pad after doing this? or is it just enough space for the disc ?
You're spot on. If you follow the guide carefully there should be just enough space to fit the disc rotor between the pads. Make sure you don't make the gap too narrow otherwise you'll have to reset the pistons which can mean re-bleeding the system
@@BenHuggett will try.. Just to make sure just enough to slip in the disc 👍🏻
@@BenHuggett just checking in case I do this by accident in future, resetting the pistons means u need a bleed? Why is that?
Wow! This tip is heaven-sent! I just had my brakes bled and I still can't get that almost immediate engagement. After watching your video, it only took like five minutes to do both front and rear. Now they're great! Thank you!
That’s exactly what I made the video for. I can’t believe this isn’t more common knowledge for people/bike shops bleeding brakes
@@BenHuggett thanks bud 👍
By placing 1 or 2 credit cards in between the pads, you take the guess work out of setting the bite point.
bled my brakes 2.5 times and was getting pretty annoyed. This was what was actually the problem. Gained about half the stroke on my lever. Can't believe they don't include this step in the brake bleed vids! Thanks!
I've always said this. It should be included in the manual for brake bleeding. Generally on a first bleed the brakes are alright whilst the pistons are seated correctly. But after you've run through a set of pads the pistons are in a completely random position and need seating and setting up properly in order to get the lever feeling right. Glad I could help
Oh my god dude. I just bought an entire brand new SLX set, bled it, and was befuddled with the lever travel. I just timed myself using your adjustment method. 2:45 for the front, 4:40 for the back.
You absolute legend. 😂
Love to hear it! Glad you got things sorted out!
Good tip, but if you buy a cheap folding feeler gauge set you could extend several gauges that together equal slightly less than the thickness of the rotor, insert them between the pads, squeeze the lever hard a couple times and you have a perfectly reproducible system - say the rotor is 2mm, if you use 1.1mm gauges, you'll reduce the slop by 0.9mm.
This is a good point. I've actually taken to using a worn out section of an old disk rotor to space things out these days. If you've got an older rotor sat around just cut a section out and it makes a perfect spacer! Thanks for sharing your thoughts though, I'm sure you'll help someone!
This tip is so good you deserve to be paid! Got my XTR brakes dialed in absolutely perfect now. Much appreciated!
Thanks a lot for this video! Was getting pretty annoyed about the prospect of bleeding the brakes on my brand new bike. Did this, did a few adjustments, works like a charm! BTW, I recommend those plastic automotive interior removal tools for spreading brake pads apart, you can find them pretty cheap.
I'm glad I could help. I've found either a trim removal tool or a narrow tyre lever works really well to spread the pistons apart these days!
This a great hack for when you're using pads and/or rotors that still have life left but aren't thick enough for instant engagement.
BRO YOU PREVENTED ME FROM BURNING A HOLE IN MY WALLET. When I got my new bike, the brakes didn’t bite like my old bike so I just thought my brakes had air in its system. I then proceeded to buy a bleed kit and bled my brakes. But after two gruesome attempts of bleeding both the brakes. It still felt the same and I thought my brakes were just defective. So then I was planning to buy new brakes for my bike but then I came across your video on my recommendations. And holy $hit. After I watched the video, I came dashing to my bike and tried it. They felt amazing 🤩 and was blown away on how quick that took. TYSM and I’m glad you made this video!!!
It’s amazing how sometimes a little trick like this can solve so many issues. Glad you’re sorted now. Enjoy your bike!
No idea why this works but im a complete begginer to ebikes & maintenance amd ive just copied your instructions and it worked great . Thanks for the video 👍
Thanks so much. You saved me from an unnecessary purchase of an XT 8120 lever assembly. My current Deore 6100 now (after this advice) works the Deore 6120 4 pot caliper (I have 2 pot rear, 4 pot front Deore set up) beautifully. The action & feel on both sides now match and braking performance has been boosted. AWESOME!!
Glad to help out - still no idea why Shimano don't suggest this is an official solution! Enjoy your riding!
Genuinely didn't think this would work that easy. 30 secs. Ideal. Thanks
You're welcome!
Hey man,this is exactly what I needed,you saved me 500 bucks! I was just going to get a new set of brakes,but this saved me! Thank you very much!!
You're welcome. Glad I saved you some money. Nothing worse than having brakes that don't engage properly
$500!!!!! Jesus what brakes are you using ????
@@chriswebb383 Have you looked at the price of brakes? They’re not cheap. Even the cheap ones are expensive.
@@chriswebb383 Dude I just replaced my brakes and rotors with SLX and it was $700aud. 😂
after I tried it, this video really helped my problem regarding the brake sponge, even though I've tried various bleeding methods. thanks
Thank you for posting this video. Have been trying everything to figure how to fix this problem. 5min and problem solved. Much love❤
Glad it helped
Fantastic....just done this to my new haibike allmtn 4 as I wasn't happy with the free travel 💯 sorted now brakes bite nice and early 😊
This tip worked amazing. I just got a bike with sram guide t brakes and the work really well but with the bite point too close to the bars my hands we’re getting numb now with an instant bite point now I can set my levers reach and have perfect brakes. Thanks 👍
Happy to help out! Glad you don’t have numb hands anymore!
You don't know how happy you made me!!! I had good experiences with older SLX brakes on my former bike and last year build my new bike with a SLX groupset. Fantastic bike, but those breaks....a big turnoff! The bite point was just terrible....annoyed the hell out of me. I thought I did a poor job at installing them/cutting the cables etc, so bled them a second time, but no..still terrible. With your tip I now have perfect brakes again! Really happy with it.
Really glad I managed to help. Those SLX brakes are genuinely decent once they're set up right. I prefer the SLX levers to the XT ones because they're less complicated mechanically. Less to go wrong!
I just wanted to say THANK YOU! I hated how far I had to pull the lever before it would start biting and honestly was about to start looking at magura brakes even though I didn't need something more powerful because I disliked it so much and what I thought was the servo wave levers. Now when pulling on the levers real hard they go back as far as the original bite point which is so much better! I thought I had originally messed up the bleed when I swapped to deore levers on my mt200 set but I reblead them 3 times and it didn't fix it, I assumed maybe this was something you could do but with all the "don't pull the levers without a bleed block" I only barely tried it before and just assumed it didn't work so I left it like that for a few months now. Finally got fed up with the feel, now I'm very happy with the feel of my shimano setup. As for why shimano doesn't mention it I bet its because the high end levers have "bite point adjustment" which they can sell as a important feature, when you can do that with all of them just not as easy
That’s what RUclips is for. I’m really glad you got your brakes sorted. Happy riding!
@@BenHuggett I actually need to go back and do my front again as it's reverted back to it's old position. I guess that's what people mean when they say Shimano has a moving bite point
I do the same action but place a credit card in the gap. the rotors are usually 1.8mm but the credit card is 1mm thick and i squeeze until the brake bites on the card then refit the wheel
Was just about to ask about using a thin shim (thinner than disc)to put in gap then saw your post
I've just had this issue, I extended the reach fully and it raised the bite point also to get the same results. Thumbs up for your explanation.
No worries. Glad to help out! Enjoy your riding
This is exactly what I need! Works like a charm! I have small hands(like Trump's) so my index finger is short. When I set the lever screw to closest, the brake bites too close. If I set the lever further out, it's too far for my finger to apply force effectively. This method solves my problem. I hope I have better confidence going down fast now. Big thanks!
Really glad I could help you out! Enjoy charging down hills with more confidence!
Thanks or sharing this helpful video! I was actually having the opposite problem. I like a bit more squeeze in the lever before it engages. Even a bit softer then it should be, probably. But, I installed new discs on my bike and the brakes engage almost instantly. If the free stroke screw actually worked, it might solve the problem, but sadly it doesn't. To fix my issue, I had to squeeze the pistons all the way back into the caliper. It's easiest to do this with the pads removed (which only takes a few seconds) and using the soft rubber handle of a park cone wrench to push in the pistons. Doing it with the pads on can disturb the braking surface of the pads, even if you're careful. And being able to see the pistons is helpful in knowing when you get them even with the caliper. Just my two cents.
You make a really good point. These days I take the pads out and use a plastic glue stick to push the pistons back if they need it. I used to use a screw driver in a sock as the video states which I wouldn’t have risked using on ceramic pistons in case of cracking. Either way thanks for sharing your tips!
Great video. I actually learned this previously while working on my wifes E-bike. SRAM calls it "brake advancement" in their documentation. Its meant as a last resort but I've found myself doing it on all of my bikes when they didnt engage at a decent point.
That’s news to me. What model of brakes do you have on that bike? I’d love to be able to advise people about this if I can!
@@BenHuggett SRAM Guide brakes. Here is the link: cdn.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen0000000004358_rev_a_avid_brake_pad_advancement_product_installation_update_0.pdf
Well that did the trick. Wish I’d tried this a long time ago. So many times I’ve bled my brakes and they feel great with the bleed block and sloppy with the rotor and pads. Always assumed I sucked at bleeding brakes. Game changer.
It's such a little known trick to get things dialed in. Glad you're out riding
My my, I have seen so many video’s about flushing brakes. None ever mentioned this trick.
I have been flushing brakes again and again to make them feel as tight as possible. Turns out the flush was perfectly fine, just needed to know this tip sooner!
Took two attempts, but I did get a bit better lever feel. Cheers.
Worked on adjusting my Shimano XT brakes, I followed your steps, Thank you Benjamin
Glad to hear it! It seems like the XTs are the most troublesome brake sets to bleed following shimano's official guides. I've always had issues with mine
Just changed my brake pads and the travel for my levers increased from 1cm. to hitting the handle bars. Thanks for the tutorial.
Glad to help you out!
Wow, what a simple solution. Will try this on our bikes
Just received my Trek Rail 9 and was very unhappy with the SRAM code R's on it due to the levers hitting the grips when pulled. This completely solved my issue, thank you so much man!
Glad to have helped out! Can't believe bike shops and user manuals don't recommend you do this!
What a great bit of information. I have been riding forever and never knew this. So helpful, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks a lot! Finaly I foud it how. Very simply!
I can’t believe just how well this works I’ve never had such a responsive brake
Happy I could help! Enjoy your riding
Love you man, I spend so much time to find a way how to adjust this till found that video.
Glad I could help!
How on earth is this not a adjustable feature on the levers....insane.
The levers that have free stoke adjust technically can. But as the video says, the adjustment range is so tiny it's useless
Thank you. I thought all the time I did not bleed it right. But now it‘s instant after 30 seconds again, like I need to ride with confidence!
Really glad I could help out. Enjoy riding!
Upgraded to new discs and pads recently and couldn't figure out how to get the lever matched up to the correct bite point.. this worked perfectly thanks very much
Glad to help out! This should be more widely known as an adjustment technique
@@BenHuggett absolutely, the fact that very good brakes such as deore M6120 do not have a 'free stoke' adjuster has put me off buying them until now. With this tip I don't need to spend on SLX or XT as their adjustment isn't worth the investment anyway..
Precisely. The free stroke adjustment is completely pointless in my opinion. The tool free reach adjuster and the grip dimples are the only benefit I see from SLX and higher systems. I still love how minimal the Deore levers look without any adjustment bolts so I'll keep running them until they need replacing!
hello Bejamin,
i stumbled over your Video today , thought my breaks are good as they are. Gave it a try and this is changing everything , just wow and thank you so much for this upload
I'm so glad! Love hearing such positive reviews of this little process! Happy riding
Brilliant!!! Worked for me. How is this not an official step in the bleed process or at least touched on in the instructional videos? Certainly the manufacturers are aware of this.
Honestly I don't know why this isn't an official step. I literally can't see a disadvantage to it
I think this advancement is _supposed_ to be automatic. It certainly is in car brakes. They use the squish and rebound in a square O-ring to pull back the pads and they automatically slide forward to take up wear. I'd presumed that bike brakes did something similar (obviously there is an external pull-back spring instead/as well, but I presumed there was something to let the caliper stay advanced and let a bit more fluid into the system. Maybe not.
1:48 I think you can have a good control over that adjustment if you use a "feeler gauge tool", set plates to something thinner than the disk and put that in when moving the pads closer together.
Yes absolutely. It just not strictly speaking necessary if you can judge the gap by eye
This works for SRAM Code R. Just did it on my Stumpy 🙂
Gonna try this, since my fingers are really short. That's a real problem on SRAM Code R brakes.
Exactly what i needed!
I'm definitely gonna try this. I got my Canyon Stoic 3 last year and only rode it a few times, but now that the new season starts I need to get this ready. This is my first hydraulic brake bike and I knew nothing about how to adjust it, I've been wondering why my brakes have so much travel and thought it must be normal.
Ok, I tried it out and it kind of worked but still has a lot of travel. Either I need to bleed the system or that's just how the brakes work, I'm not sure what to think, as these are the only hydraulic brakes I've ever used. (fyi I got Sram DB8 brakes)
This is what RUclips is for :)
Perfect, thank you so much man!
You’re very welcome
Ty for this i just made shigura combo and rear brake was more soft then front so this help me a lot ❤
Glad it helped you out. It should work for just about any brake combo set up
Amazing, worked like a charm! Thanks for the tip!
Good vid , spongy brake problem solved, thanks
Great to hear!
Clap my hands for you and your great video 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉F… works wowwwww
Thanks, it did help!
I had done the process and went too far, the pads were too close together and the wheel was not fully free when rotating. Every other video I saw was giving instructions to bleed the system, which I dreaded, that is a messy oily job.
I didn’t know you could push the calipers back in this way
Almost all modern levers are designed to allow you to push the piston back without fully bleeding the lever in my experience people just don't believe it for some reason.
The little chamber in the lever that you attach the bleed funnel to is designed to collect air or excess fluid from the brake system. Obviously in an ideal world there would be no excess air in the system but Shimano brakes in particular can function pretty well with a little bit of air in there.
I'm glad the video helped you get things working properly!
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
Thanks for watching! Glad I could help
Hm, this makes zero sense to me. If you don't change the amount of fluid in the system then how can the travel of the calipers stay where you set them? They'll eventually go right back won't they? Or does this have something to do with the fluid in the piston lever? Confused....
You’re bang on. There’s a fluid reservoir above the master piston in the lever which holds extra fluid to compensate for pad wear or in this case advancing the pistons
You’re bang on. There’s a fluid reservoir above the master piston in the lever which holds extra fluid to compensate for pad wear or in this case advancing the pistons
First off, thank you so much for this very detailed guide. Just curious though, if you just pressed the lever ever so slightly, what difference does it make if I do it with the wheel on? Or I won't be able to press it at that point because of the rotor?
I'm also thinking if its better to do this procedure with a bleed cup on so that there will be more oil in the system that will prevent the pistons from going back far?
Thanks a lot
The reasoning for taking the wheel out is that even if you’re only pulling the lever slightly the pads (at least on one side) are likely to make some sort of contact with the piston and will thus more likely get pushed back into the calliper. The other advantage of taking the disc out is so you can see more clearly what you’re doing.
As to your point with the bleed cup. Yes, that’s not a bad idea. I generally don’t bother because most levers have a small reserve of brake fluid. This is normally used to top up the fluid in the lines and push the pistons forward further as your pads wear down through use.
Hope that answers some questions
@@BenHuggett Thanks for your reply Benjamin, I tried it on my SLX levers which doesn't have a bite point adjustment and it worked!
I have a theory, maybe when the rotor is not there, there is nothing that pushes back the fluid back to the reservoir, I think which causes more fluid to be on the line.
But I'm really glad to found your video because I don't have much reason now to upgrade to XT levers. Cheers.
Super cool tip--I was getting ready to disassemble my new rscs to figure out what the hell was going on. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you got it sorted! Getting new brakes set up is always a bit tricky. Happy riding!
Yaaay thank you!! Very helpful exactly the info I needed!
Glad to help out
Good tip, i'll certainly try it as, like you, the amount of free movement in my Deore M6100 lever before pad engagement is ridiculous. My query is, what to do if you manipulate the pads to be a little closer together as per your video, but then the gap is too small for the disc rotor/wheel to be reinstalled? If you have to push the pistons back out a bit is that effectively undoing what you're trying to achieve?
Thanks for the question. In a sense yes you're undoing what you set out to do if you push the pads/pistons back. That said there's absolutely no harm in doing that. The system is a closed loop so you can rinse and repeat the process as many times as you want in order to get the gap just right.
I've actually just built my dad a bike and managed to overextend the pistons. I've taken to using a thin bit of wood in order to push the pistons back. I got the distance right on my second attempt and just like that the bike is ready to go!
Hope that helps!
Thank you for this video, I feel stupid not thinking of this myself.
No worries. It’s easily overlooked
Thank you ❤
Incredible! Thx
Definitely going to try this. Might need a straight rotor first though
It's absolutely worth a go. You probably don't even need a perfectly true rotor. The pistons will push it into true in order to get the distancing right and then you can work on straightening the rotor separately
Legend. Thanks 👍
I've done this before but it dosnt seem to last that long. My lever seems to go back to being a close pull as you described. My lever is already adjust as far out as it can go via the little 2mm screw. Funny thing is my front brake is fine , it's just that damn rear one giving me trouble. I've bled it over and over again. I may just buy a new rear brake.
There shouldn't be any reason for this not to last...once the pistons have been pushed out they can't really go back. The only thing you could be facing is pad wear? Obviously once the pads wear the tolerances change somewhat. What levers are you running? Is there any chance you have an air leak somewhere? FWIW I've always had more issues with rear brakes than front ones. The long hoes makes it harder to get a good bleed
it happens to me too, but on both brakes. I think you need to bleed it with the pistons already pushed to feed more oil
You just described my exact issue. You're right too. This easy fix doesn't last very long. My riding buddies kept asking why I kept taking my tire off 🤣
Interesting observation. My trail bike hasn't been rebled or had any attention to the brake system except new pads for just over two years and the brakes feel exactly the same as they did after adjustment. It might legitimately be a case of there not being enough oil in the reservoir in the lever initially which would allow air into the system over time. Might be worth a rebleed/top-up
Yes it won't last, since when your pads loose material, the distance that your piston needs to travel to brake increase. Your piston is hold in a seal that deforms when you brake, due to pressure applied on the piston, and therefore move the piston forward. When you release your brake, the seal get back in its original shape (like a spring), and so do the piston (there is no slip between piston and seal) . But when your pads get thiner, the piston needs to move more and eventually the seals wont be able to deform enough for the pads to reach the disc, so the piston will slip trough the seals due to pressure, until it reachs the disc. Then, the seals get back in original shape, so pistons and pads move backward at the exact same distance from the disc everytime, no matter what.
When you do the tricks of the video, the travel of your piston get smaller than the travel than can cover the seal when deforming, so it works, but when your pads loose material, the travel will increase until it reaches the point where pistons got to slip trough the seals again.
This allow us to have every time the same travel for the piston no matter your pads state...
Spend some time truing your rotor and a stand and one can get their shimano brakes to bite almost immediately when the lever is pulled AND you won't get any rubbing
I think you’ve slightly missed the point of the video. Rotor trueness has very little to do with engagement or bite point. The purpose of this guide is to show people how to essentially push their pistons further out to reduce the free play in their braking system. Truing a rotor will not accomplish the same thing. All the brake manufacturers advise users to push their brake pistons back when performing a system bleed but don’t advise users to push them back out - hence the positive comments on this video
I’m brand new to MTB mechanics but a fairly competent road bike home mechanic for rim brakes….
Could I in theory use something slightly thinner than a rotor, hold said object between the pads and squeeze to close the gap without risk of over pulling and pushing the pads together?
That was the first thing I thought of when I seen him doing it. Even if it's a thick piece of solid card for e.g
Nice thank you! One important thing to add is at 2:25 you should wipe clean the pistons - before - pushing them back... Otherwise you are pushing dirt into the piston seals.
This is a good point. Especially in the UK where it literally never stops being muddy those calipers do get caked in dirt
@@BenHuggett yeah man :)
You've given me an idea too.. Perhaps I'll try holding a credit card (or two) in the caliper.. Then I could leaver without overshooting the pistons, maybe 🤔
That's not a bad idea you know. It's not the end of the world if you over do it, you can lever the pistons back in without too much issue - your brakes might need a bleed afterwards though!
@@BenHuggett niceswan!
Update: it worked perfectly on my SLX brakes 👍 I held a plastic brake leaver against the faster piston, to nurse out the slower one. Slowly. Thank you!
@@herculesmclovin that's brilliant news. I've done it on a few bikes now and it makes a huge difference to braking confidence! Thanks for dropping an update!
@@herculesmclovin great idea.. going to apply it... tq bro
so an 2mm allen key and 20mins spent adjusting the bite points and your Deore M6100 is pretty much as good as the Deore XT M8100 for less than half the money ;o]
I got today full F&R set of M6100 brakes+calipers for 81 euro to replace my ancient maguras
honestly I can't comprehend why someone spends more for the reach adjust knob, completely agree that you only need to use it once ;o]
that bite point adjust would be nice but if I can do it this way than no need for it as well
clearly the local bike shop that tried to bleed my old brakes did not know this, they totally messed up the bite point on one of them ;o]
they pretty much messed up everything they touched so I decided to spend some time studying how to do all myself and not rely on someone else anymore
Top tip dude, thanks 👍
No worries. Glad to help
God bless you man! I have lost all hope for those brakes after re-bleeding them 5th time in a row. I just wanted to throw them to trash
Glad I could help! Can't believe this isn't more common knowledge. I've fixed so many people's brakes with this trick now!
I just did it and work
THANK YOU!!
No worries. Glad to help out!
gonna try this in a few days when i go riding, hope it works.
Give it a shot! As you can see from other people's comments, it's got a pretty solid success rate!
Use a shim to make sure the pads dont touch
This is genius! 3 bleeds and still poor. This fix took 5 mins.
Amazing! How does this work?
I can't seem to understand what happens internally in your calipers, as you're not adding any oil or air into the system?
There’s a small fluid reservoir above the master piston in the brake lever. This holds fluid that helps the lever compensate for pad wear and in this case allows us to push more fluid into the line to advance the pistons manually. Hope that helps
Seems simple enough. I’m guessing most people are having the opposite issue with relationship between their pads and rotors
Thank you 🙏🏼 😃
No worries. Glad to help!
I was with you until you said you jam a sock between your brake pads.
He said wrap your flat head screw driver in a sock when using it to pry the pistons back out. The sock or tape or whatever you want to use is just so you don't scratch stuff up
my brake lever dosent even pop back out once i pull it it just stays at my grip and the brakes don’t do anything
I took my wheels off to wash my bike and when I put it back together the levers would pull in much further than before and feel slightly weaker, is this sudden change likely fixed by what you did here? Or is it something to do with the oil. I didn’t do anything to the breaks other than take the wheels off.
I just did that and realised I needed new pads so I put in some spares and the brakes have little to no movement and the disk is bent so it rubs which sucks but I think I just have to re bleed them to get some oil out cause the pistons won’t budge
It can take quite a lot of force to push the pistons back if they’ve been exposed to dirt etc for some time. Might be worth having another go with something larger to get more leverage before you go through a full bleed
I did this, only one piston stays and the other goes all the way back to its normal position? any fix? :D help would be apreciated!!
The adjustement on these brakes is actually much simpler than this. At 0:29 you can see the screw that adjusts this setting: it's marked as 'FREE STROKE'. Turning this screw in will narrow the range of travel of the lever, while loosening it will increase the range of travel.
As I said in the video, the range that the Free Stroke adjuster has is absolutely tiny - to the point where I would consider it a design failure. I have had multiple bikes with free stroke adjustable brakes and have never once found it to have much of an impact at all. Because of this, I run Deore levers with XT calipers on my trail bike. Speaking to people in the trade, it seems like the universal go to is to run the free stroke completely closed and just over-bleed the brakes as this video shows
great video, illogical oem design, but if the workaround works, it works
I’m gonna try this on my Tektro 275 brakes as I’ve bled them twice now and they still feel off. Seems like i need to pump them a couple times to have them feel right like the pads need to move closer to the rotor. I also wonder if using a 6 or 7 mm bleed block would accomplish the same thing if bleeding and using not brand new pads.
Xt 8100
Im in a position where if the brakes are close to my grip, and i one finger brake, it smushes my other finger.
I got the lever throw all the way out.
Do I need more oil in the line or something?
otherwise I had to scoot the brakes further away from the grip, but that also puts my shifters kinda far away.
What am I missing.
If I just 2 finger brake then Im fine but what the heck thanks?
Didn't work for me but I understand the concept. Mine required bleeding, simple though. FYI ;Just put filled and bled syringe on bottom fitting, take off top fitting, loosen bottom, then push fluid thru to top enough to push thru a new cycle (very small amt of volume needed for brake line) then shut off bottom valve, then close top. Works like brand new, zero free play.
Sounds like you had a slightly different issue to what I was talking about in the video which is largely about setting the piston clearance. That said, for those reading it's worth following your advice on bleeding. Too many people do a "top bleed" and don't realise it's much better to push fluid from bottom to top as you say!
I had tried this previously and it worked for the first ride, but then started to go back to the original position after a few rides. Maybe I didn't pull the lever enough times when adjusting. I will try again and hopefully it stays tight longer.
I think you’re right. You might just have adjusted it enough. I re-adjusted my hard tail in December and the brakes haven’t needed any work since
I think you’re right. You might just have adjusted it enough. I re-adjusted my hard tail in December and the brakes haven’t needed any work since
Dumb question: why does the front wheel need to be removed? Why does having the rotor removed from the calliper stop the pads from retracting?
So I did this on my previous bike and it worked wonderfully…exactly as described in your vid. Fast forward…new bike but same XT 8120 brakes and I’m trying the same thing but it’s not working so well. The pistons advance as expected but they don’t stay in that position. Rather they just retreat back to their original starting position when I cycle the levers, effectively eliminating any change to the bite point. Any ideas on what’s going on here? Was thinking maybe this only works if you’ve got a solid bleed going…and maybe I don’t however I’ve bled them many times over with no luck. Open to suggestions…TIA
If you’re finding that they’re retracting that’ll be because of the vacuum in the master cylinder. My advice would be to follow the steps in the video but with a bleed funnel attached to the lever and a bit of mineral oil. This will allow the system to be essentially ‘overbled’ so the pistons cannot retract as far. Hope that helps!
Ahh yes…that makes perfect sense. Thx for the advice…I’ll give that technique a whirl and see what happens
I guess what’s most confusing to me is why this maneuver works for people that DON’T overbleed their system with the reservoir cup in place. Without it, why would the pads stay advanced?
It depends on how much fluid was in the system to begin with. No two brakes are going to be bled exactly the same. If the factory underbled your brakes for whatever reason you’ll have pistons that retract further but the next bike on the assembly line might have brakes that are overbled. It will all depend on the mechanic who assembled it.
There are also brakes that benefit from underbleeding like Hope’s RX4s. If they’re overbled the pistons don’t retract at all so you almost always have to create a vacuum in order to get the pistons to work properly
Okay…have a new question for you, kind sir! I just bled my brakes as you described in this comment exchange. I advanced the pads WITH the reservoir still in place and it seemed to work brilliantly. I like a very short lever throw and this def did the trick. The next morning I grabbed a handful of brake lever and it shot all the in to the bars. I rechecked my top & bottom bleed ports and they, indeed, we’re both tight. What I did notice was oil leaking out of the outboard side of the master cylinder. While I’ve since learned that it is actually some kind of overfill release valve (or something similar), what I can’t find is how to fix the problem. I’ve bled completely twice since this happened and the lever still isn’t tight. Have I popped some kind of gasket inside the master cylinder?
Very nice.
Thank you
It's pretty simple ...begin by getting your neutron core
about to try this as i’ve bled my trps so many times and can’t find what i like
The problem with Deore is they have Servo Wave, so adjusting reach for short fingers renders the brake usless, as it effects how far the piston in the master cylinder can be pressed, thus you can't reach the power needed to stop, but adjusted to all the way out the brakes are powerful and actually work properly.
Freestroke adjustment counteracts this, thus making the brakes usable for short fingers.
So Deore is absurd.
But some brakes habe direct lever actuation, instead of an mechanism disconnecting the lever from the piston plunger. So those will have the same power no matter how you set the reach.
I had Deore m615, Deore M6000 so I know how these brakes are, but I can tell by looking at the mechanism anyway.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. To my understanding the actuation of the piston isn't altered by the reach being adjusted. The lever after all just pivots around an axle with an independent arm attached to the main lever actually being responsible for depressing the piston. Because of this adjusting reach alone shouldn't alter the riders' ability to apply power to the piston providing the system is well bled. As you say, there have in the past been brakes that directly actuate the master piston from the lever but that's barely relevant to the braking systems most of us use today.
Again, to my understanding the point of the free stroke is to adjust the amount of preload applied to the piston and thus decreasing the levers throw distance...whether that actually works or not is a different matter entirely. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about that counteracting the reach adjustment but feel free to explain. In my experience the two adjustments are pretty separate from one another!
@@BenHuggett I had the Deore brakes, the Servo Wave separates the reach adjustment, and lever from the plunger, so by adjusting the reach you are moving he lever further in, but with a brake without servo Wave the lever is connected to the plunger, and adjusting reach just moves actuating part of the lever on the threaded plunger, so the piston can still be pressed the same amount, but on Servo Wave the lever basically works like a lever that has been bent, so to brake properly the lever would have to have been ghosted into the handlebar.
I am talking about the piston in the master cylinder.
I understand this might be confusing, I hope my explanation makes it easier.
This is absurd, I wish brakes like that did not exist, and there was a law agianst it, as some might adjust it then go for a ride and not be able to brake.
@@BenHuggett For some reason this subject is not talked about it seems like, I don't see this being mentioned in any review.
But your method only moves the pads in making the brake more sensitive, powerful, but that won't do much good when adjusted for short fingers on a Deore brake.
@@BenHuggett I don't have the Deore brakes any more so I can't show what I mean. But I hope the explanations help.
I have Formula Cura 4 now, they have the lever connected directly to the plunger.Just like Shimano M396, XTR Race.
You might not notice the difference if you adjust it slightly, try adjusting the lever all the way out and close to the bar like for a small child, you should notice a huge difference.
If adjusted for a child or small fingers, the pads will barely be touching the rotor when the lever is bottomed out at the grips, I use 34mm grips, so might be less so with smaller grips but will still be too weak to brake properly.
@@BenHuggett Maybe a 3d model and explanation in combination would make it easy enough to understand for more people. I am not sure how to explain it better.
adjust brake engagement
Can you do this with Shimano 6120 brakes?
Yes you can. It’s just pressurising a closed loop system so it’ll work on any set of brakes
3:22 I am confused, why didn't you do this using the free stroke adjustment screw ? Doesn't it do the same thing ?
It technically should, but in practise the free stroke adjustment is next to useless because of how little movement it offers. Shimano’s free stroke imo isn’t worth having on your levers. I’ve run Deore levers with XT callipers on various bikes for years. Performance is the same and it’s cheaper to replace if you crash
@@BenHuggett so in theory the free stroke screw should move the brake pads closer to the disk, no ? Because some mechanics say that is not what it does, one was very sure that it modifies the pressure somehow and NOT "moving pads closer" as I claimed 🤦♂
Thanks.
It’s a closed loop system so yes that’s exactly what it should do. In practice however, the range of adjustment simply isn’t enough. Any change to the pressure in the system can ONLY act to move the pads closer. The point of this video is to show an alternative method of moving the pads that allows a greater range of movement