One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Rode on an xt/xtr bike before. It felt like the same brakes except for the beauty of it. I would go for better brake pads for higher performance and precision. The thing is, the best ones are only available in XT+ series, although there are very good options up to Deore and SLX.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 That doesn't make any sense. How can 2-pot brakes have more power than 4-pot brakes? Let's try to use our brain here, shall we? As you go up the stack, given the same number of pistons, the difference will not be braking power but rather the extra features that come with higher-end brakes like this servo-thingy and the lighter materials. The difference in power between Deore, SLX and XT brakes is probably negligible, therefore no, it's actually the 2-pot 8100 XT brakes that can't match 4-pot Deore 6120 brakes in terms of braking power. I don't know about "precision", though. That might be a preference thing.
i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.
@@batm4nssDepends on how much grip do you have. On some tires or tire pressures they might be able to lock the wheel, on some others they might be unable to do it. But for wheelies there is no need to have such braking power to lock the wheel.
@@batm4nssDepends how much do you and your weight. I have SLX M7100 and they are very strong but they are not locking up the rear wheel easily, maybe because i have pretty grippy tires.
I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.
I have mt200's on my xc hardtail, I've always thought they were great but when they got hot, they lost a bit of power. definitely not the best for sustained downhills but I would strongly recommend them as they only cost £45 and provide loads of power on a 180mm RT56 (I think) rotor. Then again I have got 26" wheels (because they are the best) so the brakes are more efficient at stopping me.
Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.
How long did you use the stock levers from MT420 before you upgrade it? and what can you say about the lever upgrade you did? Is it really worth the money?
In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.
Thanks for adding additional info. I tried to cover a lot of that in this video, but it’s always challenging when you’re filming the videos yourself and such…
I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!
It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.
Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.
A lot of good stuff in that comment. There’s so many little details that make a huge difference. But totally agree that beginner riders can probably just ride what they bought and be good to go until they start riding a lot faster on more technical/steeper trails.
@@will21 I believe they brand all their pads the same. So they have a resin, a performance and a race. The metal (race) pads for mine are 7R and for yours it's 8R. And you're not wrong, the resin pads are pretty bad. Night and day with the race pads, so much bite.
I just made the switch on these brakes and I definitely agree with you on the wandering bite point - especially on the rear with more hose length. Ill be curious to see how that shapes up over time as the hoses wear in some. Im in georgia so we dont have too many huge downhills but I will be interested to see how it works in the hot summers because I have absolutely seen some brake fade on hot days. I ended up upgrading calipers and levers while I did the 180>203/160>180 F/R conversion because I got a smoking deal on some open box XTs
Love this. I have MT6120 4 piston brakes that came on my bike new. I've thought about upgrading but honestly, adding higher end pads than the OEM pads made a huge difference. Cheap upgrade. And the brakes work great. So you helped answer my question about upgrading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
@@JaredHoff At some point in the near future, a rotor upgrade is in order for sure. But I don't want to go bigger as the type of trails I ride tend to bend stuff that hangs out. Like derailleurs. I'm a lightweight at 170# so not sure how to proceed. But I know how much difference incremental upgrades can make. If you have to replace a part, is it worth upgrading, even if the part is just brake pads or rotors? The answer is often yes. Upgrade the cheap OEM parts first. Where the OEM tries to shave a few bucks.
Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think. I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking. And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.
I hear ya man! I always give honest feedback. However, I also love upgrading my bike so I’m always buying stuff I don’t “really” need for looks or marginal gains 😂 🤦♀️
I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.
The drivetrains are great too! I had a Shimano SLX 9 speed a while ago that sadly broke and for the time i had it it performed AMAZING, i could output a little more power than usual and get great stupid fast shifts. I'm on a Sram X9 on a different bike now and i still feel like the SLX was far better even now that i have a shimano hyperglide chain and cassette
4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.
Worth mentioning is that deore m6100 is using different pads shape than lower end Shimano brakes. I really like m6100 the best cost/performance you can get from Shimano. Servo wave give bigger pad clearance so easier to setup and I really like shape of short levars. Stock resin pads are fine, but you can really improve breaking performance with more agressive pads. Previous m6000 generation have quite bad levars, so I would stay away from them.
Nice concise take on the law of diminishing returns, excellent. About that floating bite point, are you sure it isn't a bleeding issue? Sounds like it...
Totally agree with this review. I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).
The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price. I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!
E-Bikes definitely require more stopping power. Finger pump is real 😂 I’m interested to see how these brakes hold up on longer downhill runs in the summer heat. I’ll probably end up needing to upgrade them 🤷🏼♂️ but we shall see
@@JaredHoff you nailed it with the two finger vs one finger usage in your review - riding with one finger on the MT4100 brake lever on DH runs longer than 30s is when it starts to hurt for me. Looking forward to your experiences when it gets warmer.
I love good brakes on a bike. Mine are reasonably expensive. Gotta say whenever I borrow my sons old bike with the cheap shimano on it, makes me question why I spent so much - though to be fair I haven’t taken it on a long downhill, but I suspect they’d be absolutely fine.
I'm not sure about the BL-MT200/201, but the BL-MT400/401/402 and the BL-M4100 actually do have reach adjustment - you can access it with a 2mm Allen wrench inside the pivot of the piston rod.
Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..
No way I live in Oregon and I am wanting to start getting into mountain biking I race dirt bikes but I want to do mountain bikes to keep me going during the week me and my friend want to ride together do you know any good areas to ride in Oregon I live in eugene
i am new to Hydraulic brakes, can you somewere, let the brake brake more or looser it a bit? i mean you cant pump in more fluid then fits.. , can not tighten or loosen it so it's not touching my pads anymore? i got the magura mt5-estop
I have the MT420 calipers also while the levers that came with it are the BL-M410 i think. I am wondering now which should I get the brake lever upgrade, the M6100, M7100 & M8100?
I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.
I have the 4100 levers with the 420 calipers and am only planning to upgrade the levers because I don't like the feel of the stamped levers and want a bit more adjustability out of them. Otherwise they have been doing me right for over a year of use and I have never wanted for more power.
4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .
Got the br m8100 with bl t8100 levers on my trekking bike, I wonder why they did not use the bl m8100 levers, because of my Rohloff twistshift, lever is pretty short but can not place them closer, because of the knob on the lever side. Also the free move of 25mm is to much, but can't be changed with this t8100. Thanks for the informative video!
The best way to get the most value out of your brakes is to mix and match levers and calipers according to preference. You can have XT levers with the servo-thingy tech plus M6120 Deore 4-pot calipers for that ice tech with the finned pads at a lower cost.
Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.
I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄
I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.
That doesn’t happen unless a diffetrential spring and separate pads for each set of pistons is employed, there is just more stiction in 4 piston brakes. The benefit to 4 piston is the pressure zone is wider and covers more of the rotor for heat dissipation.
Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.
Love my BT420 on my Norco Range ebike, especially the levers. Everyone wants the one finger levers but wait until fatigue, RSI and arthritis takes out the one digit Put a two piece Hope 220mm rotor on and they are smooth and quiet
@@JaredHoff Right-on, you’re welcome! I’m sure they’re going to perform just fine and will ultimately show the reality with diminishing return above a certain level. Although, those fins have to do something. Maybe on the warmest of days.
Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)
I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?
I don’t think these brakes are suited for E-MTB. You could try upgrading the brake levers, and getting bigger/better rotors. Ive heard of people using TRP rotors on shimano brakes.
Im working on a brake setup now i am putting an mt410 caliper on the rear an mt420 caliper front and xt 8100 levers. I want to test and see if i can get the brake modualtion like the magura trail set up. But with the ease of bleed of shimano and way better levers.
@@WV_MTB heck yeah 👍 got to try different options. I was just talking to my buddy the other day about how Shimano levers are just so damn easy to bleed like ever since I was a brand new beginner mechanic I could bleed those things perfectly yet you give me a set of SRAM breaks forget about it. I’m just learning how to bleed those things.
I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.
On my ebike I run mt520 calipers with slx levers. 203mm magura and galfer 2.0mm thick rotors, with metalic pads. Absolutely amazing and budget frirendly.
Hi :) I had the same brakes (the same bike). Brakes were not strong enough for me for fast downhill descents. I mean there were enough force, but Ifaced hand fatigue after some time. Replacing levers with hig-end model to have servo wave was enough.
I've got the MT-401s on my XC bike and coming from motorcycles they feel the most like a motorcycle brake. My Rail has the SLX masters and I find the feeling to be really inconsistent with temperature variation. When it's cold out (like now) the rear brake lever feels really mushy and I instinctively want to pump it up because that's what I've learned to do when a lever feels mushy (or a pedal). Pumping brakes is a life-preservation muscle memory and the servo wave levers trigger that for me. I do understand the modulation argument about the different masters, but the reality is this: You can get more modulation with a smaller rotor and practice. In the motorcycle world you get what you get and learn to ride each bike how it was made...
I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!
So if you run a sram gx group set can you still slap shimano ice tech rotors and Xt brake levers a calipers?or would would Magura mt trail sport brakes be better?
we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think? I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking
XT brakes are good. Check out TRP brakes as well. Check out the Trek Fuel EX 7 I got. Comes with TRP Slate brakes, which are the low model 4-Pistons but they work so good.
I've had XTR brakes and rotors on other bikes throughout my life, and the IceTech technology really does make a difference, but only in very specific fading situations. From a braking power standpoint I would say larger rotors and tires make the biggest difference, servowave gives you modulation in loose terrain situations.The setup you already had with the 203/180 rotors and 4-piston calipers is more than enough for the vast majority of applications, If you feel fading, the icetech rotors from the slx line will make a big difference, but don't use metal pads on them.
I could never see dishing out for XT components. I usually ran regular Shimano Deore brakes, couldn’t notice much difference from my friends XT setups. I actually had awesome performance from my old Deore U brakes and cantilever setups.😝 Shimano has always made very high quality parts, nobody can match the Japanese when they design mechanical components. From fishing reels to bike components, to automotive they put a lot of effort into producing the highest quality parts. But I think you’re right about not needing to buy the top of the line components and just appreciate the quality of the less expensive parts for the great value they are. Great topic btw, you read my mind.
I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...
Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?
I usually run shorter levers. I’m always testing and trying to make videos to help people find what’s best for them. I definitely wouldn’t replace my short levers with longer ones. But I was really surprised how good these long levers performed.
@JaredHoff Thanks for you answer! I currently run Magura MT5 calipers with M6100 levers. Those are strong enough, but seriously lack modulation. I got better modulation with Magura 2-finger levers, but broke their plastic body on the first ride in a minor crash. Thats why I'm still going to give the M4100s a try. I will write a comment how they worked for me afterwards.
I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components. My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts. I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action. The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force. Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer. Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared. Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors. The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each. So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors. However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!
@@JaredHoffYeah prices have definitely come down a lot! I bought my XT components in may 2022 and I still remember the cassette was about 250 bucks, while its half now. Most other components have lowered like 20~25% in price.
Yes, you can use Shimano MT200 levers with M4100 calipers. Both components are part of Shimano's mountain bike hydraulic disc brake system and are compatible with each other. Here are some considerations to ensure proper functionality: Hydraulic Fluid: Both the MT200 levers and the M4100 calipers use Shimano's mineral oil as hydraulic fluid, which ensures compatibility. Brake Hose: Ensure that the brake hose and fittings are compatible. Shimano hydraulic brake systems are typically designed to be interchangeable, but using the correct hose type and fittings is crucial for optimal performance. Bleeding: After installation, you will likely need to bleed the brake system to remove any air bubbles and ensure consistent braking performance. Mounting: Make sure the calipers are correctly aligned with your rotors and that the levers are positioned comfortably on your handlebars. Combining these components should provide reliable braking performance suitable for most mountain biking applications. If you are unsure or uncomfortable performing the installation yourself, it is always a good idea to have a professional bike mechanic handle it.
thank you! I’m new in the game; I only got my bike this summer because my dog doesn’t like trail runs & I need the massive workout I get from uphills. I fear downhills a lot on a bike, so I watched your review to get confidence in my MT400 😁 I guess they’re similar to 410 right?
Welcome to the MTB family! I just looked up the shimano MT410 and they seem to be 2 piston brakes. 2 piston brakes are good for most riding. However, 4 piston brakes and larger brake rotors are required for really steep downhills and longer descents. There’s a lot more to cover, but that’s a basic overview. Shimano makes great base model brakes and they should stop your bike with ease.
Have you tried the 6100? I ride a heavy Levo and I am not too impressed with the Sram Code DOT brakes, they are noisy, squishy, and a PITA to work on compared to my XT8100 on my 5010. I found a good deal on Ebay for the 6100s, $104.00 a set. I am a cheapskate but I love good brakes.
What is important is that you replace the fluid from time to time otherwise the dirt which somehow gets in will wear the seals, especially at the handlebar.
After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.
i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊
The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes. My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons. After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure. My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.
@@JaredHoff 100%. I still have my first bike and I still take it out every now and then. The brakes are still good but I do notice that I need to apply more power than on my main bike but it's really only when I'm flying down a trail and need to stop fast.
I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders
I am very happy to land on this video as I was wondering for the past few months if it was worth it to upgrade. I also have the same bike Marin AlpineTrail 7 and have upgrade some components but kept the brake since they are working quite nicely on Enduro/DH. Sounds like I would also need to replace the disk, pads etc if I upgrade the shifter and calipers. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?
Nice video, good music and good content. But, I don’t know where you get those prices at minute 8.35? I live in Germany. I got a set of the 820s front and back with caliper and lever which cost me on sale 279.00 Euros. The 420s brake set is currently selling for about 140.00 Euros front and back. The 410s front and back go for only 42.00 Euros!
Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))
I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed. The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best. For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.
impressive video! now i ride myself on quite some expensive stuff, but im in a very privileged position my employer covers for all these kind of cost. way too often you tube content creators are just advertising for expensive stuff a hell lot of people simply can not afford. and the question is rarely asked, do you need this? shimano is quality as a brand and basic stuff will do just fine for so many people. i can not praise you enough for this. lots of people follow blindly youtubers advice! consider myself a new fan!
Thank you a ton! Comments like this make it all worth it. I always try to be open and honest in my vids. There are definitely a lot of RUclips channels selling us stuff we don’t really need 👍🏻
The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.
I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.
The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose. Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401. Along with XT in terms of rigidity.
Those are the stock handlebars from Marin. I prefer TrailOne Crocket bars. Got a discount for you below if you’re interested. trailone.bike/?ref=yHQiW-iMc3Gyfr 15% Discount Code - SupportTheTrails-Hoff
Your videos', like these, help to differentiate the hype, from reality !!!!!!!!! Important & what counts. I agree with you, just bought a "budget" mid range MTB & the power on these brakes are awesome & puts me off overspeced bikes'. The music in the background's irritating / intervenes'/ unnecessary !!!
$4600 Anthem Advanced spec'd with 4100 brakes. That's XT level price, but I guess I'll try the 4100s out when that bike is built today. Curious about weight comparison?
I ride MT 200s on my XC bike, one fat tire bike, my commuter and one fitness bike. I can't say for sure if they are suitable for harsh DH riding since I don't ride DH, but for my use case they offer enough power and enough heat capacity. I never regretted using them, even if more expensive models may have a nicer feeling but for higher costs and more complexity
I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well. Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises. I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.
Sorry to hear you’re having those issues. The e-bike I just got has XT brakes with ice tech rotors and pads. It’s been working great. Although, I had to bed the brakes in really good before they started to bite.
Totally agree that modulation just feels spongy, I have xt 2 pot callipers and love the bite, I can hardly pull the lever past the initial bite point which is great...can still modulate but with far less input. No ice tech stuff.
one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result! the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍
I just replaced my MT200 entry level brakes with M6100 2 piston brakes, which is a mid-level, and I use RT 56/54 rotors for rear/front respectively. I found the M6100 brake does improve, I would say, 15-20% of braking powers, but there are no significant differences I think. Anyway, this upgrade costs around $80 for buying M6100 brakes.😄
I just bought a new bike that has the xt brakes literally a week ago, and the current bike has mt 420. Currently in the proces of adjusting the xt brakes to feel like the mt420 ones because those felt literally perfect for my liking, and they did so for a year straight without bleeding or adjusting anything. If there is a difference in braking its miniscule (at least in urban enviroment I didnt get the chance to test the new ones offroad yet, but I never had a problem with mt420 ever). Id buy the 520 just because I like the single finger lever more than the big one on the 420
I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.
There’s definitely some personal preference. So many people love the modulation of SRAM. But I feel that that modulation causes more arm pump on long bike park downhill runs. But totally a personal preference 👍🏻
One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.
Thank you for the awesome comment 👍 This lets me know I’m doing something right. Deore brakes are so good.
I highly doubt if they could match 2 piston XT's braking power and precision. But they are propably a very good deal for their price.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Rode on an xt/xtr bike before. It felt like the same brakes except for the beauty of it.
I would go for better brake pads for higher performance and precision. The thing is, the best ones are only available in XT+ series, although there are very good options up to Deore and SLX.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 I had both, better that xt 2 pistons, slightly worse than xt 4 piston
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 That doesn't make any sense. How can 2-pot brakes have more power than 4-pot brakes? Let's try to use our brain here, shall we? As you go up the stack, given the same number of pistons, the difference will not be braking power but rather the extra features that come with higher-end brakes like this servo-thingy and the lighter materials. The difference in power between Deore, SLX and XT brakes is probably negligible, therefore no, it's actually the 2-pot 8100 XT brakes that can't match 4-pot Deore 6120 brakes in terms of braking power. I don't know about "precision", though. That might be a preference thing.
i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.
Heck yeah 🤙🏻 Lever swap is definitely something I’ll try one day.
Interesting. Good to know as an "upgrade" without totally replace the set.
do you think the m4100 brakes are good for wheelies and could they lock up a wheelie???
@@batm4nssDepends on how much grip do you have. On some tires or tire pressures they might be able to lock the wheel, on some others they might be unable to do it. But for wheelies there is no need to have such braking power to lock the wheel.
@@batm4nssDepends how much do you and your weight. I have SLX M7100 and they are very strong but they are not locking up the rear wheel easily, maybe because i have pretty grippy tires.
I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.
👍👍👍 Awesome
I have mt200's on my xc hardtail, I've always thought they were great but when they got hot, they lost a bit of power. definitely not the best for sustained downhills but I would strongly recommend them as they only cost £45 and provide loads of power on a 180mm RT56 (I think) rotor. Then again I have got 26" wheels (because they are the best) so the brakes are more efficient at stopping me.
Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.
Deore is a great option 👍
How long did you use the stock levers from MT420 before you upgrade it? and what can you say about the lever upgrade you did? Is it really worth the money?
In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.
Thanks for adding additional info. I tried to cover a lot of that in this video, but it’s always challenging when you’re filming the videos yourself and such…
I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!
Glad to have helped in anyway 👍
It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.
Shimano and SRAM offer such good entry level products.
Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.
A lot of good stuff in that comment. There’s so many little details that make a huge difference. But totally agree that beginner riders can probably just ride what they bought and be good to go until they start riding a lot faster on more technical/steeper trails.
Are the m4 pads metal? I have mt7 and they are bad. The mt7 came with cheap resin pads
@@will21 I believe they brand all their pads the same. So they have a resin, a performance and a race. The metal (race) pads for mine are 7R and for yours it's 8R. And you're not wrong, the resin pads are pretty bad. Night and day with the race pads, so much bite.
Now that's a good honest review..thanks mate
Thank you! That’s what I try to do 👍
I just made the switch on these brakes and I definitely agree with you on the wandering bite point - especially on the rear with more hose length. Ill be curious to see how that shapes up over time as the hoses wear in some. Im in georgia so we dont have too many huge downhills but I will be interested to see how it works in the hot summers because I have absolutely seen some brake fade on hot days. I ended up upgrading calipers and levers while I did the 180>203/160>180 F/R conversion because I got a smoking deal on some open box XTs
Love this. I have MT6120 4 piston brakes that came on my bike new. I've thought about upgrading but honestly, adding higher end pads than the OEM pads made a huge difference. Cheap upgrade. And the brakes work great. So you helped answer my question about upgrading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
@@jimross898 Upgrading pads definitely helps. I also upgraded the rotors on a pair of cheap SRAM brakes I had and it made a huge improvement
@@JaredHoff At some point in the near future, a rotor upgrade is in order for sure. But I don't want to go bigger as the type of trails I ride tend to bend stuff that hangs out. Like derailleurs. I'm a lightweight at 170# so not sure how to proceed. But I know how much difference incremental upgrades can make. If you have to replace a part, is it worth upgrading, even if the part is just brake pads or rotors? The answer is often yes. Upgrade the cheap OEM parts first. Where the OEM tries to shave a few bucks.
@@jimross898 for sure. Rotor size helps but I’ve also noticed thicker rotors or just more expensive rotors make a difference as well.
Thanks so much. I’m just about to create my old Avid BB7 cable brakes so this is extremely helpful. I also live in Oregon!
@@CaptMorgan24 nice 👍 you should come ride Spence Mountain sometime. My local trails.
Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think.
I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking.
And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.
I hear ya man!
I always give honest feedback. However, I also love upgrading my bike so I’m always buying stuff I don’t “really” need for looks or marginal gains 😂 🤦♀️
I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.
Definitely 👍
SLX brakes are just as good as XT.
Word
The drivetrains are great too! I had a Shimano SLX 9 speed a while ago that sadly broke and for the time i had it it performed AMAZING, i could output a little more power than usual and get great stupid fast shifts. I'm on a Sram X9 on a different bike now and i still feel like the SLX was far better even now that i have a shimano hyperglide chain and cassette
Bud saint brakes is best brakes have better oil system
@@dominikvajcomrd8699 do you are have speak?
I agree, SLX offers the best combination of performance, features and value. I equipped my bike with 7120’s and RT86’s for less than $300.
4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.
Great comment. Totally agree with you. I’m going to keep using these break lever for now, but might switch out the brake levers in the future.
Worth mentioning is that deore m6100 is using different pads shape than lower end Shimano brakes.
I really like m6100 the best cost/performance you can get from Shimano. Servo wave give bigger pad clearance so easier to setup and I really like shape of short levars. Stock resin pads are fine, but you can really improve breaking performance with more agressive pads.
Previous m6000 generation have quite bad levars, so I would stay away from them.
Nice concise take on the law of diminishing returns, excellent.
About that floating bite point, are you sure it isn't a bleeding issue? Sounds like it...
I love my Shimano 6120 budget brakes on my e-bike. I am running 220mm HS2 rotors with purple Galfer metal pads. The results have been amazing!
@@Bittersfamily0424 nice 👍
Totally agree with this review.
I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).
Awesome comment. Thanks!
The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price.
I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!
E-Bikes definitely require more stopping power. Finger pump is real 😂 I’m interested to see how these brakes hold up on longer downhill runs in the summer heat. I’ll probably end up needing to upgrade them 🤷🏼♂️ but we shall see
@@JaredHoff you nailed it with the two finger vs one finger usage in your review - riding with one finger on the MT4100 brake lever on DH runs longer than 30s is when it starts to hurt for me. Looking forward to your experiences when it gets warmer.
Same on my e-bike, not near enough braking if your a hard rider . Trps cheapest slate evos brakes are way better!
Reach adjustment is also posible on the 4100 Lever by using a hexwrench, i don't know exactly wich number. An amazing video, thank you!
Thanks for taking time to comment 👍
I love good brakes on a bike. Mine are reasonably expensive. Gotta say whenever I borrow my sons old bike with the cheap shimano on it, makes me question why I spent so much - though to be fair I haven’t taken it on a long downhill, but I suspect they’d be absolutely fine.
bro just enlightened me and my wallet on why not to buy XT when you hai shinano 401 ❤️😂 bro saved my money
I'm not sure about the BL-MT200/201, but the BL-MT400/401/402 and the BL-M4100 actually do have reach adjustment - you can access it with a 2mm Allen wrench inside the pivot of the piston rod.
Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..
Definitely agree 👍
No way I live in Oregon and I am wanting to start getting into mountain biking I race dirt bikes but I want to do mountain bikes to keep me going during the week me and my friend want to ride together do you know any good areas to ride in Oregon I live in eugene
@mxtrend114 so many good trails around you. Download the Trail forks app and start searching. Oakridge is a must ride!
@ okay sweet thank you
i am new to Hydraulic brakes, can you somewere, let the brake brake more or looser it a bit? i mean you cant pump in more fluid then fits.. , can not tighten or loosen it so it's not touching my pads anymore? i got the magura mt5-estop
I have the MT420 calipers also while the levers that came with it are the BL-M410 i think.
I am wondering now which should I get the brake lever upgrade, the M6100, M7100 & M8100?
@@phil5073 M6100 is all you really need but depends on the sale you can find.
@@JaredHoff thanks
I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.
👍 I will admit that my e-bike has a full XT brake setup and I love it, but the bike came that way so no need to change it.
I have the 4100 levers with the 420 calipers and am only planning to upgrade the levers because I don't like the feel of the stamped levers and want a bit more adjustability out of them. Otherwise they have been doing me right for over a year of use and I have never wanted for more power.
4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .
I was hoping for you to compare m6100 instead of m4100 brakes. Good content!
Thanks man 👍
Got the br m8100 with bl t8100 levers on my trekking bike, I wonder why they did not use the bl m8100 levers, because of my Rohloff twistshift, lever is pretty short but can not place them closer, because of the knob on the lever side. Also the free move of 25mm is to much, but can't be changed with this t8100. Thanks for the informative video!
The best way to get the most value out of your brakes is to mix and match levers and calipers according to preference. You can have XT levers with the servo-thingy tech plus M6120 Deore 4-pot calipers for that ice tech with the finned pads at a lower cost.
Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.
I would check with your local bike shop. They can look that up and help you get the best answer.
I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄
@@reallybigphilly I’m not sure if they have any aftermarket pads like that.
I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.
4-piston brakes for the win 🥇 I don’t own any XC bikes, so I always prefer 4-piston brakes
That doesn’t happen unless a diffetrential spring and separate pads for each set of pistons is employed, there is just more stiction in 4 piston brakes. The benefit to 4 piston is the pressure zone is wider and covers more of the rotor for heat dissipation.
Nice video. Gap between pad and rotor is same between cheap and expensive hydraulik brakes?
@@dattatrayvedpathak5067 it should be but you might need to adjust that or re-bleed the brakes if something isn’t right.
@JaredHoff Thanks for your prompt reply
Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.
Awesome! I definitely think I’m going to try swapping the levers in the future.
Me neither ... no difference whatsoever.
I use the SLX BL-M7100 lever and I love them.
Heck yeah 👍
Love my BT420 on my Norco Range ebike, especially the levers.
Everyone wants the one finger levers but wait until fatigue, RSI and arthritis takes out the one digit
Put a two piece Hope 220mm rotor on and they are smooth and quiet
Surprised to see your take so far. Am looking forward to seeing how they handle extended use on long downhill runs.
Thanks! I was pretty impressed with them on the short runs I took.
@@JaredHoff Right-on, you’re welcome! I’m sure they’re going to perform just fine and will ultimately show the reality with diminishing return above a certain level. Although, those fins have to do something. Maybe on the warmest of days.
Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)
SRAM code R’s always seem to take a bit to get setup right.
I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?
I don’t think these brakes are suited for E-MTB.
You could try upgrading the brake levers, and getting bigger/better rotors. Ive heard of people using TRP rotors on shimano brakes.
Im working on a brake setup now i am putting an mt410 caliper on the rear an mt420 caliper front and xt 8100 levers. I want to test and see if i can get the brake modualtion like the magura trail set up. But with the ease of bleed of shimano and way better levers.
@@WV_MTB heck yeah 👍 got to try different options. I was just talking to my buddy the other day about how Shimano levers are just so damn easy to bleed like ever since I was a brand new beginner mechanic I could bleed those things perfectly yet you give me a set of SRAM breaks forget about it. I’m just learning how to bleed those things.
I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.
Heck yeah! Don’t fix if it ain’t broken 👍
I hate my Shimano mt-420, TRPs cheapest brakes(slate evo) feel way better breaking power and just feel better.
On my ebike I run mt520 calipers with slx levers. 203mm magura and galfer 2.0mm thick rotors, with metalic pads. Absolutely amazing and budget frirendly.
Hi jared. I have a shimano mt200 brakes. And i want change to deore m4100. Is it worth it? Is there much difference? Thank you :)
Yes, it’s worth it. Maybe even move up the the Deore M6100s if the price is right.
With the bike market right now,,, I’ve seen some amazing prices.
Hi :) I had the same brakes (the same bike). Brakes were not strong enough for me for fast downhill descents. I mean there were enough force, but Ifaced hand fatigue after some time. Replacing levers with hig-end model to have servo wave was enough.
I'm looking for a brake with a large piston retraction. Can you recommend something?
I’m not sure about the differences between specific brake brands piston retraction. Are you trying to avoid rotors rubbing on brake pads?
I've got the MT-401s on my XC bike and coming from motorcycles they feel the most like a motorcycle brake. My Rail has the SLX masters and I find the feeling to be really inconsistent with temperature variation. When it's cold out (like now) the rear brake lever feels really mushy and I instinctively want to pump it up because that's what I've learned to do when a lever feels mushy (or a pedal). Pumping brakes is a life-preservation muscle memory and the servo wave levers trigger that for me. I do understand the modulation argument about the different masters, but the reality is this: You can get more modulation with a smaller rotor and practice. In the motorcycle world you get what you get and learn to ride each bike how it was made...
Smaller rotors heat up faster.
I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!
Thanks 👍💯
TRP brakes . I'm not spending an arm n leg though . Great review and new subscriber . Appreciate you and looking forward to more content
Thank you! Loving the TRP brakes that I’ve owned.
@@JaredHoff oh nice . So you have some
Regular Shimano hydrolic disk brakes work for me.I have them on multiple bikes for years with no problems
Most definitely 👍
So if you run a sram gx group set can you still slap shimano ice tech rotors and Xt brake levers a calipers?or would would Magura mt trail sport brakes be better?
I‘be never tried Magura, but heard good things about them.
... and XT* brake levers and calipers? Or* would* Magura MT (...) be better?
currently on M6000 2 pots. Is it worth it and much different if I change to M6120 4 pots?
@@yudhaasukma 4 pots makes a bike difference for steep, long downhill runs. But not needed for XC riding
we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think?
I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot
We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking
XT brakes are good. Check out TRP brakes as well. Check out the Trek Fuel EX 7 I got. Comes with TRP Slate brakes, which are the low model 4-Pistons but they work so good.
I've had XTR brakes and rotors on other bikes throughout my life, and the IceTech technology really does make a difference, but only in very specific fading situations. From a braking power standpoint I would say larger rotors and tires make the biggest difference, servowave gives you modulation in loose terrain situations.The setup you already had with the 203/180 rotors and 4-piston calipers is more than enough for the vast majority of applications, If you feel fading, the icetech rotors from the slx line will make a big difference, but don't use metal pads on them.
I'd like to see servo-wave levers + 2-piston brakes compared to normal levers + 4 piston brakes
I could never see dishing out for XT components. I usually ran regular Shimano Deore brakes, couldn’t notice much difference from my friends XT setups.
I actually had awesome performance from my old Deore U brakes and cantilever setups.😝
Shimano has always made very high quality parts, nobody can match the Japanese when they design mechanical components. From fishing reels to bike components, to automotive they put a lot of effort into producing the highest quality parts.
But I think you’re right about not needing to buy the top of the line components and just appreciate the quality of the less expensive parts for the great value they are. Great topic btw, you read my mind.
Because you're not a serious rider.
I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...
Heck yeah 👍
Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?
I usually run shorter levers. I’m always testing and trying to make videos to help people find what’s best for them.
I definitely wouldn’t replace my short levers with longer ones. But I was really surprised how good these long levers performed.
@JaredHoff
Thanks for you answer! I currently run Magura MT5 calipers with M6100 levers. Those are strong enough, but seriously lack modulation. I got better modulation with Magura 2-finger levers, but broke their plastic body on the first ride in a minor crash. Thats why I'm still going to give the M4100s a try.
I will write a comment how they worked for me afterwards.
I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components.
My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts.
I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action.
The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force.
Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer.
Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared.
Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors.
The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each.
So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors.
However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!
Definitely all adds up. Prices have been dropping though. My Polygon N8E came with XT brakes, IceTech rotors and pads. It’s actually pretty amazing 🤩
@@JaredHoffYeah prices have definitely come down a lot!
I bought my XT components in may 2022 and I still remember the cassette was about 250 bucks, while its half now.
Most other components have lowered like 20~25% in price.
i have the Shimano M401 breaks and the same levers and they do have a tiny screw that is hidden that allows you to adjust the lever reach.
Awesome 🤙
BRAKES
great vid! can you use different background music? feel like ive heard it so many times!
I’ll definitely change up the background music. Thank you for the feedback
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the 4100s still have a reach adjustment? You just use a small wrench instead of the knob on the XT
They did t have reach adjustment, but I never needed it.
can i use the shimano mt200 levers for m4100 calipers?
Yes, you can use Shimano MT200 levers with M4100 calipers. Both components are part of Shimano's mountain bike hydraulic disc brake system and are compatible with each other. Here are some considerations to ensure proper functionality:
Hydraulic Fluid: Both the MT200 levers and the M4100 calipers use Shimano's mineral oil as hydraulic fluid, which ensures compatibility.
Brake Hose: Ensure that the brake hose and fittings are compatible. Shimano hydraulic brake systems are typically designed to be interchangeable, but using the correct hose type and fittings is crucial for optimal performance.
Bleeding: After installation, you will likely need to bleed the brake system to remove any air bubbles and ensure consistent braking performance.
Mounting: Make sure the calipers are correctly aligned with your rotors and that the levers are positioned comfortably on your handlebars.
Combining these components should provide reliable braking performance suitable for most mountain biking applications. If you are unsure or uncomfortable performing the installation yourself, it is always a good idea to have a professional bike mechanic handle it.
@@JaredHoff thanks!
@@JaredHoff can i use the shimano m6100 lever for the shimano m6120 calipers?
thank you! I’m new in the game; I only got my bike this summer because my dog doesn’t like trail runs & I need the massive workout I get from uphills. I fear downhills a lot on a bike, so I watched your review to get confidence in my MT400 😁 I guess they’re similar to 410 right?
Welcome to the MTB family!
I just looked up the shimano MT410 and they seem to be 2 piston brakes. 2 piston brakes are good for most riding. However, 4 piston brakes and larger brake rotors are required for really steep downhills and longer descents. There’s a lot more to cover, but that’s a basic overview.
Shimano makes great base model brakes and they should stop your bike with ease.
Have you tried the 6100? I ride a heavy Levo and I am not too impressed with the Sram Code DOT brakes, they are noisy, squishy, and a PITA to work on compared to my XT8100 on my 5010. I found a good deal on Ebay for the 6100s, $104.00 a set. I am a cheapskate but I love good brakes.
6100s are good brakes 👍
What is important is that you replace the fluid from time to time otherwise the dirt which somehow gets in will wear the seals, especially at the handlebar.
After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.
Thanks for the long term review 👍
i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊
Deore 4-pistons work amazing
The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes.
My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons.
After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure.
My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.
Heck yeah! Thanks for the amazing comment. It definitely changes when you ride faster steeper trails and linger descents
@@JaredHoff 100%. I still have my first bike and I still take it out every now and then. The brakes are still good but I do notice that I need to apply more power than on my main bike but it's really only when I'm flying down a trail and need to stop fast.
I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders
Good advice 👍
I have mixed all. 6120 with other levers and front xtr disc. but the ice tech discs are too soft and too expensive. gonna mix it up with magura 😃
I am very happy to land on this video as I was wondering for the past few months if it was worth it to upgrade. I also have the same bike Marin AlpineTrail 7 and have upgrade some components but kept the brake since they are working quite nicely on Enduro/DH. Sounds like I would also need to replace the disk, pads etc if I upgrade the shifter and calipers. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
Glad to have helped 👍 that’s what it’s all about
Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?
Just check the brake hose and make sure it’s the BH-90 high pressure hose and you should be good to go.
Nice video, good music and good content. But, I don’t know where you get those prices at minute 8.35? I live in Germany. I got a set of the 820s front and back with caliper and lever which cost me on sale 279.00 Euros. The 420s brake set is currently selling for about 140.00 Euros front and back. The 410s front and back go for only 42.00 Euros!
Sorry if the prices are off. I usually research at the time of filming but I know prices change.
Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))
Thank you! Slash 8 is an amazing MTB
I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed.
The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best.
For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.
👍
I did upgraded my budget brakes into XT, huge difference for me... I like to ride XCO trails, so I'm happy with my investment 😊
@@Sonic01-14 nice 👍
impressive video!
now i ride myself on quite some expensive stuff, but im in a very privileged position my employer covers for all these kind of cost.
way too often you tube content creators are just advertising for expensive stuff a hell lot of people simply can not afford. and the question is rarely asked, do you need this?
shimano is quality as a brand and basic stuff will do just fine for so many people.
i can not praise you enough for this. lots of people follow blindly youtubers advice!
consider myself a new fan!
Thank you a ton! Comments like this make it all worth it. I always try to be open and honest in my vids. There are definitely a lot of RUclips channels selling us stuff we don’t really need 👍🏻
The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.
Heck yeah! I have the 6100s on a bike and really liked those.
I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.
Heck yeah 👍
The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose.
Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401.
Along with XT in terms of rigidity.
Definitely need the high pressure brake line
This video is about MT420, which comes stock with HB90. Just like any other shimano's 4 piston brake.
where are the handlebars from
Those are the stock handlebars from Marin. I prefer TrailOne Crocket bars. Got a discount for you below if you’re interested.
trailone.bike/?ref=yHQiW-iMc3Gyfr
15% Discount Code - SupportTheTrails-Hoff
Your videos', like these, help to differentiate the hype, from reality !!!!!!!!! Important & what counts.
I agree with you, just bought a "budget" mid range MTB & the power on these brakes are awesome & puts me off overspeced bikes'.
The music in the background's irritating / intervenes'/ unnecessary !!!
$4600 Anthem Advanced spec'd with 4100 brakes. That's XT level price, but I guess I'll try the 4100s out when that bike is built today.
Curious about weight comparison?
🤔 not sure on weight. The levels on the 4100s should be lighter, but probably not the calipers. Although it’s a few grams probably
I ride MT 200s on my XC bike, one fat tire bike, my commuter and one fitness bike. I can't say for sure if they are suitable for harsh DH riding since I don't ride DH, but for my use case they offer enough power and enough heat capacity. I never regretted using them, even if more expensive models may have a nicer feeling but for higher costs and more complexity
@@simonm1447 for sure 👍
%100 Agree ! Did some tests too, the Shimano cheapest felt the same in all ! Just a $$$ grab !
How do you put fringe on those little brake levers? That's the important question.
😂
I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well.
Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises.
I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want
more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.
Sorry to hear you’re having those issues. The e-bike I just got has XT brakes with ice tech rotors and pads. It’s been working great. Although, I had to bed the brakes in really good before they started to bite.
Totally agree that modulation just feels spongy, I have xt 2 pot callipers and love the bite, I can hardly pull the lever past the initial bite point which is great...can still modulate but with far less input. No ice tech stuff.
@@AdamBrowne-eg1eb Ice Tech discs are much too soft and also too expensive!
I paid 95 Bucks for my mt 420 4-piston brake set with metal pads included, Very happy, big difference from the 401 2-piston brakes
@@AndreiFSX heck yeah 👍 great deal!
one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result!
the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍
Awesome! That’s what it’s all about.
H03A or H03C ? do the pads mount from the top without modification ? i order m420 with SM-RT66, What disc do you use ? Thanks so much !
Hey man I swapped my mt420s for slx and i honestly think that the mt420s I had had more initial bite..
Now I'm looking for after market pads
I had the same experience. Getting a good set of pads will make them even better.
I just replaced my MT200 entry level brakes with M6100 2 piston brakes, which is a mid-level, and I use RT 56/54 rotors for rear/front respectively. I found the M6100 brake does improve, I would say, 15-20% of braking powers, but there are no significant differences I think. Anyway, this upgrade costs around $80 for buying M6100 brakes.😄
Very useful info
Glad to have helped 👍
I just bought a new bike that has the xt brakes literally a week ago, and the current bike has mt 420.
Currently in the proces of adjusting the xt brakes to feel like the mt420 ones because those felt literally perfect for my liking, and they did so for a year straight without bleeding or adjusting anything.
If there is a difference in braking its miniscule (at least in urban enviroment I didnt get the chance to test the new ones offroad yet, but I never had a problem with mt420 ever).
Id buy the 520 just because I like the single finger lever more than the big one on the 420
@@grgagabric4369 definitely like the 520 single finger levers
I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.
I noticed with the brakes with servo wave the lever felt like when opening a locking pliers, it just snaps! I hate that feeling.
There’s definitely some personal preference. So many people love the modulation of SRAM. But I feel that that modulation causes more arm pump on long bike park downhill runs. But totally a personal preference 👍🏻
i will switch from Cube Action Team with XT Breaks to Touring MTB with MT420 Breaks. Now i think its good for Ebike Touring.
Awesome 👍