I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.
I have mt200's on my xc hardtail, I've always thought they were great but when they got hot, they lost a bit of power. definitely not the best for sustained downhills but I would strongly recommend them as they only cost £45 and provide loads of power on a 180mm RT56 (I think) rotor. Then again I have got 26" wheels (because they are the best) so the brakes are more efficient at stopping me.
i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.
@@batm4nssDepends on how much grip do you have. On some tires or tire pressures they might be able to lock the wheel, on some others they might be unable to do it. But for wheelies there is no need to have such braking power to lock the wheel.
@@batm4nssDepends how much do you and your weight. I have SLX M7100 and they are very strong but they are not locking up the rear wheel easily, maybe because i have pretty grippy tires.
One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Rode on an xt/xtr bike before. It felt like the same brakes except for the beauty of it. I would go for better brake pads for higher performance and precision. The thing is, the best ones are only available in XT+ series, although there are very good options up to Deore and SLX.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 That doesn't make any sense. How can 2-pot brakes have more power than 4-pot brakes? Let's try to use our brain here, shall we? As you go up the stack, given the same number of pistons, the difference will not be braking power but rather the extra features that come with higher-end brakes like this servo-thingy and the lighter materials. The difference in power between Deore, SLX and XT brakes is probably negligible, therefore no, it's actually the 2-pot 8100 XT brakes that can't match 4-pot Deore 6120 brakes in terms of braking power. I don't know about "precision", though. That might be a preference thing.
In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.
Thanks for adding additional info. I tried to cover a lot of that in this video, but it’s always challenging when you’re filming the videos yourself and such…
Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.
How long did you use the stock levers from MT420 before you upgrade it? and what can you say about the lever upgrade you did? Is it really worth the money?
I just made the switch on these brakes and I definitely agree with you on the wandering bite point - especially on the rear with more hose length. Ill be curious to see how that shapes up over time as the hoses wear in some. Im in georgia so we dont have too many huge downhills but I will be interested to see how it works in the hot summers because I have absolutely seen some brake fade on hot days. I ended up upgrading calipers and levers while I did the 180>203/160>180 F/R conversion because I got a smoking deal on some open box XTs
The drivetrains are great too! I had a Shimano SLX 9 speed a while ago that sadly broke and for the time i had it it performed AMAZING, i could output a little more power than usual and get great stupid fast shifts. I'm on a Sram X9 on a different bike now and i still feel like the SLX was far better even now that i have a shimano hyperglide chain and cassette
4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.
Worth mentioning is that deore m6100 is using different pads shape than lower end Shimano brakes. I really like m6100 the best cost/performance you can get from Shimano. Servo wave give bigger pad clearance so easier to setup and I really like shape of short levars. Stock resin pads are fine, but you can really improve breaking performance with more agressive pads. Previous m6000 generation have quite bad levars, so I would stay away from them.
I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.
4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .
Totally agree with this review. I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).
It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.
I have the 4100 levers with the 420 calipers and am only planning to upgrade the levers because I don't like the feel of the stamped levers and want a bit more adjustability out of them. Otherwise they have been doing me right for over a year of use and I have never wanted for more power.
Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.
A lot of good stuff in that comment. There’s so many little details that make a huge difference. But totally agree that beginner riders can probably just ride what they bought and be good to go until they start riding a lot faster on more technical/steeper trails.
@@will21 I believe they brand all their pads the same. So they have a resin, a performance and a race. The metal (race) pads for mine are 7R and for yours it's 8R. And you're not wrong, the resin pads are pretty bad. Night and day with the race pads, so much bite.
Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..
I love good brakes on a bike. Mine are reasonably expensive. Gotta say whenever I borrow my sons old bike with the cheap shimano on it, makes me question why I spent so much - though to be fair I haven’t taken it on a long downhill, but I suspect they’d be absolutely fine.
Nice concise take on the law of diminishing returns, excellent. About that floating bite point, are you sure it isn't a bleeding issue? Sounds like it...
I'm not sure about the BL-MT200/201, but the BL-MT400/401/402 and the BL-M4100 actually do have reach adjustment - you can access it with a 2mm Allen wrench inside the pivot of the piston rod.
Love this. I have MT6120 4 piston brakes that came on my bike new. I've thought about upgrading but honestly, adding higher end pads than the OEM pads made a huge difference. Cheap upgrade. And the brakes work great. So you helped answer my question about upgrading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
@@JaredHoff At some point in the near future, a rotor upgrade is in order for sure. But I don't want to go bigger as the type of trails I ride tend to bend stuff that hangs out. Like derailleurs. I'm a lightweight at 170# so not sure how to proceed. But I know how much difference incremental upgrades can make. If you have to replace a part, is it worth upgrading, even if the part is just brake pads or rotors? The answer is often yes. Upgrade the cheap OEM parts first. Where the OEM tries to shave a few bucks.
Love my BT420 on my Norco Range ebike, especially the levers. Everyone wants the one finger levers but wait until fatigue, RSI and arthritis takes out the one digit Put a two piece Hope 220mm rotor on and they are smooth and quiet
I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!
The best way to get the most value out of your brakes is to mix and match levers and calipers according to preference. You can have XT levers with the servo-thingy tech plus M6120 Deore 4-pot calipers for that ice tech with the finned pads at a lower cost.
Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think. I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking. And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.
I hear ya man! I always give honest feedback. However, I also love upgrading my bike so I’m always buying stuff I don’t “really” need for looks or marginal gains 😂 🤦♀️
On my ebike I run mt520 calipers with slx levers. 203mm magura and galfer 2.0mm thick rotors, with metalic pads. Absolutely amazing and budget frirendly.
Got the br m8100 with bl t8100 levers on my trekking bike, I wonder why they did not use the bl m8100 levers, because of my Rohloff twistshift, lever is pretty short but can not place them closer, because of the knob on the lever side. Also the free move of 25mm is to much, but can't be changed with this t8100. Thanks for the informative video!
The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price. I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!
E-Bikes definitely require more stopping power. Finger pump is real 😂 I’m interested to see how these brakes hold up on longer downhill runs in the summer heat. I’ll probably end up needing to upgrade them 🤷🏼♂️ but we shall see
@@JaredHoff you nailed it with the two finger vs one finger usage in your review - riding with one finger on the MT4100 brake lever on DH runs longer than 30s is when it starts to hurt for me. Looking forward to your experiences when it gets warmer.
I could never see dishing out for XT components. I usually ran regular Shimano Deore brakes, couldn’t notice much difference from my friends XT setups. I actually had awesome performance from my old Deore U brakes and cantilever setups.😝 Shimano has always made very high quality parts, nobody can match the Japanese when they design mechanical components. From fishing reels to bike components, to automotive they put a lot of effort into producing the highest quality parts. But I think you’re right about not needing to buy the top of the line components and just appreciate the quality of the less expensive parts for the great value they are. Great topic btw, you read my mind.
I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.
Thanks for the info . I am building a mtb and so far i have got everything shimano xt m8100. And i haven't decided about the breaks but 4 piston sounds good😮 i was thinking magura 😮
I've had XTR brakes and rotors on other bikes throughout my life, and the IceTech technology really does make a difference, but only in very specific fading situations. From a braking power standpoint I would say larger rotors and tires make the biggest difference, servowave gives you modulation in loose terrain situations.The setup you already had with the 203/180 rotors and 4-piston calipers is more than enough for the vast majority of applications, If you feel fading, the icetech rotors from the slx line will make a big difference, but don't use metal pads on them.
I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.
That doesn’t happen unless a diffetrential spring and separate pads for each set of pistons is employed, there is just more stiction in 4 piston brakes. The benefit to 4 piston is the pressure zone is wider and covers more of the rotor for heat dissipation.
Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.
I just replaced my MT200 entry level brakes with M6100 2 piston brakes, which is a mid-level, and I use RT 56/54 rotors for rear/front respectively. I found the M6100 brake does improve, I would say, 15-20% of braking powers, but there are no significant differences I think. Anyway, this upgrade costs around $80 for buying M6100 brakes.😄
I have the MT420 calipers also while the levers that came with it are the BL-M410 i think. I am wondering now which should I get the brake lever upgrade, the M6100, M7100 & M8100?
i am new to Hydraulic brakes, can you somewere, let the brake brake more or looser it a bit? i mean you cant pump in more fluid then fits.. , can not tighten or loosen it so it's not touching my pads anymore? i got the magura mt5-estop
Hi :) I had the same brakes (the same bike). Brakes were not strong enough for me for fast downhill descents. I mean there were enough force, but Ifaced hand fatigue after some time. Replacing levers with hig-end model to have servo wave was enough.
The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose. Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401. Along with XT in terms of rigidity.
Have you tried the 6100? I ride a heavy Levo and I am not too impressed with the Sram Code DOT brakes, they are noisy, squishy, and a PITA to work on compared to my XT8100 on my 5010. I found a good deal on Ebay for the 6100s, $104.00 a set. I am a cheapskate but I love good brakes.
Im working on a brake setup now i am putting an mt410 caliper on the rear an mt420 caliper front and xt 8100 levers. I want to test and see if i can get the brake modualtion like the magura trail set up. But with the ease of bleed of shimano and way better levers.
@@WV_MTB heck yeah 👍 got to try different options. I was just talking to my buddy the other day about how Shimano levers are just so damn easy to bleed like ever since I was a brand new beginner mechanic I could bleed those things perfectly yet you give me a set of SRAM breaks forget about it. I’m just learning how to bleed those things.
The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes. My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons. After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure. My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.
@@JaredHoff 100%. I still have my first bike and I still take it out every now and then. The brakes are still good but I do notice that I need to apply more power than on my main bike but it's really only when I'm flying down a trail and need to stop fast.
What is important is that you replace the fluid from time to time otherwise the dirt which somehow gets in will wear the seals, especially at the handlebar.
I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...
I suspect that The wandering bite point is because the operator didnt service the brake right. I never had that issue when i fully back out the free stroke and set the brake pad properly. I dont adjust the free stroke until i have the right gap on the pads and rotor.
I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components. My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts. I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action. The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force. Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer. Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared. Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors. The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each. So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors. However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!
@@JaredHoffYeah prices have definitely come down a lot! I bought my XT components in may 2022 and I still remember the cassette was about 250 bucks, while its half now. Most other components have lowered like 20~25% in price.
After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.
I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.
I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.
Not to mention - when the servo wave cracks inside the XT levers, you can't buy just the servo wave piece to replace the cracked one.... You have to buy a new lever. for that reason alone, I'd buy the 420's.
im still using my cheap unkown brand hydrolic brake for 3 years now, and the braking power is still strong....but i might retire it next year, due to rust...
I ride MT 200s on my XC bike, one fat tire bike, my commuter and one fitness bike. I can't say for sure if they are suitable for harsh DH riding since I don't ride DH, but for my use case they offer enough power and enough heat capacity. I never regretted using them, even if more expensive models may have a nicer feeling but for higher costs and more complexity
I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄
I had a 2020 trek fuel ex 9.7 equipped with the mt4100 levers, I was convinced to swap levers to the mt8100, the feel was not even close to the same, mt8100 was so much worse, couldn't bleed them enough to get enough bite back, worst swap I'd ever done, also I was working at a shop that had access to shimano parts and got a good discount, but it ruined how my bike felt
The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.
I wonder if it depends on where you go. Sometimes I go down a serpentswinging road, declining 8% for 5 km. I guess that is a road where brake quality makes a difference. When I go to work, 17 km, there are no big declines and all decent brakes are good enough.
I just bought a new bike that has the xt brakes literally a week ago, and the current bike has mt 420. Currently in the proces of adjusting the xt brakes to feel like the mt420 ones because those felt literally perfect for my liking, and they did so for a year straight without bleeding or adjusting anything. If there is a difference in braking its miniscule (at least in urban enviroment I didnt get the chance to test the new ones offroad yet, but I never had a problem with mt420 ever). Id buy the 520 just because I like the single finger lever more than the big one on the 420
Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.
Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)
the cheaper have resin pistons that can melt at high pad temperature instead of transferring the heat to the oil like the ceramic pistons on SLX and higher. also, the m6100 levers are barely more expensive than m4100 but can improve on the M4100 series brakes. the 4 pot calipers for sure runs on BH90, so no problem combinig it with m6100 levers
Well, I think I will stick to the cheaper models, since I've never experienced such thing. I just bought a 2009 Commencal Fury and I will sell the crappy Elixirs came with it. I will keep my old first gen servo wave Deore rear brake, and replace my Alivio BR-M445 with a new BR-M6120 for front. @@JoLe1991
1:00 A issue with this design on Deore m615, M6000,6100 brakes is reach adjustment effects the power, how farther piston can be pressed. There is no adjustment to counter act that, so if you have long fingers, you have a powerful brake, and with short fingers, but adjusted for short fingers, a smal child the brake pads will barely touch the rotor, so the brakes won't be functional at all. the stock position fits me, but lacks power.
🤔 never thought of the reach adjustment effecting power like that, but it makes sense that a lever with more throw would force more power to the pistons.
@@JaredHoff that's not what I meant, what you mention is called leverage, which means a longer lever, makes it easier to press the lever blade, like a breaker bar vs a small hex key, but that's not an big issue with modern brakes. I am talking the mechanism, lever not being connected to the push rod, but to the servo wave mechanism. but of course if lever is all the way to the lever that's not enough to brake properly, that's not what I mean, I mean the push rod cant be pressed, as the lever is moved in, but mechanism is not adjusted, there needs to be a counter adjustment, if you check out a video about Hope brakes, you will see what I mean, they don't have servo wave, but they do have adjustment to adjust the modulation, and reach, so you can have grabbyand grabby brakes or less grabby. the cheap brake you showed has a lever blade connected directly to the push rod, so the adjustment moves the pivot, thus the lever blade further in on the push rod, thus power remains the same.
Why can't they mount tiny electric DC motor which will be creating vaccum in the hydraulic brake system (like in car) and power it by battery charged by dynamo hub in wheel? Making small servo unit it easy nowadays. Even ABS modul is possible.
one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result! the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍
I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!
I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed. The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best. For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.
Four piston vs two piston is the main issue one should be concerned about . i have two piston on my older model cube and go four piston magura (mt5) on my Nox . the difference in stopping power is huge
I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?
I don’t think these brakes are suited for E-MTB. You could try upgrading the brake levers, and getting bigger/better rotors. Ive heard of people using TRP rotors on shimano brakes.
i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊
I like my mt420s… loved my old mt200s from like the early 2000s… if I do any brake upgrading it will be to replace my code r’s with something like a slx or slate type brake.
I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.
I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well. Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises. I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.
Sorry to hear you’re having those issues. The e-bike I just got has XT brakes with ice tech rotors and pads. It’s been working great. Although, I had to bed the brakes in really good before they started to bite.
Totally agree that modulation just feels spongy, I have xt 2 pot callipers and love the bite, I can hardly pull the lever past the initial bite point which is great...can still modulate but with far less input. No ice tech stuff.
I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders
we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think? I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking
XT brakes are good. Check out TRP brakes as well. Check out the Trek Fuel EX 7 I got. Comes with TRP Slate brakes, which are the low model 4-Pistons but they work so good.
this is currently my conundrum, I'm running MT200s and I'm thinking of upgrading to either MT501s or M6100s. My thing is, they are both 2-piston brakes, and both levers look almost exactly the same but the MT501s are about $30-$40 cheaper each. I honestly have no problem with the stopping power of the MT200s, I just don't like the lever design. I could just replace the MT200 levers with MT501 levers but then I'm spending around $90 just for both the levers, so I may as well just spend a little bit more and buy a whole new brake.
I think sometimes when it comes to upgrades, there’s a common sense approach that tells you that it’s a waste of money to spend extra money on something that you don’t really need. But you also have to take into account the fact that those little upgrades does little things you do to your bike to really make you love your bike. I mean those are important too and really I’ve done some upgrades that people think are a waste of money, but I don’t regret it at all because I’m stoked on the way my bike looks and how it performs.
Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?
I usually run shorter levers. I’m always testing and trying to make videos to help people find what’s best for them. I definitely wouldn’t replace my short levers with longer ones. But I was really surprised how good these long levers performed.
@JaredHoff Thanks for you answer! I currently run Magura MT5 calipers with M6100 levers. Those are strong enough, but seriously lack modulation. I got better modulation with Magura 2-finger levers, but broke their plastic body on the first ride in a minor crash. Thats why I'm still going to give the M4100s a try. I will write a comment how they worked for me afterwards.
best choice will be mt520, as i know it has same pistons diameter in caliper as 6120 and higher (420 has smaller pistons), it comes with short lever servowave handles as higher models does. you can also install icetech pads in 520 caliper. and it is well known that free stroke feature doesn`t actually work on shimano handles so you wount miss much without it.
Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?
M420 calipers take the same pads as my Shimano Zees and Saints on my other bikes. Swapped out the levers to M7100 levers to have a simlar feel to my Zees and Saints. Have them equipped on my Trek Rail 7 and to be honest, I don't notice any difference in stopping performance. My wife prefers this setup compared to the zees on her Mega
I have MT200 on My bike . I'm Thinking Switching a Slx lever . I don't like the lever feel of Non series but the power of that cheap ones is enough I just need to change the Hose to BH90
Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))
I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.
👍👍👍 Awesome
I have mt200's on my xc hardtail, I've always thought they were great but when they got hot, they lost a bit of power. definitely not the best for sustained downhills but I would strongly recommend them as they only cost £45 and provide loads of power on a 180mm RT56 (I think) rotor. Then again I have got 26" wheels (because they are the best) so the brakes are more efficient at stopping me.
i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.
Heck yeah 🤙🏻 Lever swap is definitely something I’ll try one day.
Interesting. Good to know as an "upgrade" without totally replace the set.
do you think the m4100 brakes are good for wheelies and could they lock up a wheelie???
@@batm4nssDepends on how much grip do you have. On some tires or tire pressures they might be able to lock the wheel, on some others they might be unable to do it. But for wheelies there is no need to have such braking power to lock the wheel.
@@batm4nssDepends how much do you and your weight. I have SLX M7100 and they are very strong but they are not locking up the rear wheel easily, maybe because i have pretty grippy tires.
One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.
Thank you for the awesome comment 👍 This lets me know I’m doing something right. Deore brakes are so good.
I highly doubt if they could match 2 piston XT's braking power and precision. But they are propably a very good deal for their price.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Rode on an xt/xtr bike before. It felt like the same brakes except for the beauty of it.
I would go for better brake pads for higher performance and precision. The thing is, the best ones are only available in XT+ series, although there are very good options up to Deore and SLX.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 I had both, better that xt 2 pistons, slightly worse than xt 4 piston
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 That doesn't make any sense. How can 2-pot brakes have more power than 4-pot brakes? Let's try to use our brain here, shall we? As you go up the stack, given the same number of pistons, the difference will not be braking power but rather the extra features that come with higher-end brakes like this servo-thingy and the lighter materials. The difference in power between Deore, SLX and XT brakes is probably negligible, therefore no, it's actually the 2-pot 8100 XT brakes that can't match 4-pot Deore 6120 brakes in terms of braking power. I don't know about "precision", though. That might be a preference thing.
In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.
Thanks for adding additional info. I tried to cover a lot of that in this video, but it’s always challenging when you’re filming the videos yourself and such…
Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.
Deore is a great option 👍
How long did you use the stock levers from MT420 before you upgrade it? and what can you say about the lever upgrade you did? Is it really worth the money?
i have the Shimano M401 breaks and the same levers and they do have a tiny screw that is hidden that allows you to adjust the lever reach.
Awesome 🤙
I just made the switch on these brakes and I definitely agree with you on the wandering bite point - especially on the rear with more hose length. Ill be curious to see how that shapes up over time as the hoses wear in some. Im in georgia so we dont have too many huge downhills but I will be interested to see how it works in the hot summers because I have absolutely seen some brake fade on hot days. I ended up upgrading calipers and levers while I did the 180>203/160>180 F/R conversion because I got a smoking deal on some open box XTs
SLX brakes are just as good as XT.
Word
The drivetrains are great too! I had a Shimano SLX 9 speed a while ago that sadly broke and for the time i had it it performed AMAZING, i could output a little more power than usual and get great stupid fast shifts. I'm on a Sram X9 on a different bike now and i still feel like the SLX was far better even now that i have a shimano hyperglide chain and cassette
Bud saint brakes is best brakes have better oil system
@@dominikvajcomrd8699 do you are have speak?
I agree, SLX offers the best combination of performance, features and value. I equipped my bike with 7120’s and RT86’s for less than $300.
4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.
Great comment. Totally agree with you. I’m going to keep using these break lever for now, but might switch out the brake levers in the future.
Worth mentioning is that deore m6100 is using different pads shape than lower end Shimano brakes.
I really like m6100 the best cost/performance you can get from Shimano. Servo wave give bigger pad clearance so easier to setup and I really like shape of short levars. Stock resin pads are fine, but you can really improve breaking performance with more agressive pads.
Previous m6000 generation have quite bad levars, so I would stay away from them.
I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.
Definitely 👍
4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .
Totally agree with this review.
I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).
Awesome comment. Thanks!
It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.
Shimano and SRAM offer such good entry level products.
I have the 4100 levers with the 420 calipers and am only planning to upgrade the levers because I don't like the feel of the stamped levers and want a bit more adjustability out of them. Otherwise they have been doing me right for over a year of use and I have never wanted for more power.
Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.
A lot of good stuff in that comment. There’s so many little details that make a huge difference. But totally agree that beginner riders can probably just ride what they bought and be good to go until they start riding a lot faster on more technical/steeper trails.
Are the m4 pads metal? I have mt7 and they are bad. The mt7 came with cheap resin pads
@@will21 I believe they brand all their pads the same. So they have a resin, a performance and a race. The metal (race) pads for mine are 7R and for yours it's 8R. And you're not wrong, the resin pads are pretty bad. Night and day with the race pads, so much bite.
Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..
Definitely agree 👍
I love good brakes on a bike. Mine are reasonably expensive. Gotta say whenever I borrow my sons old bike with the cheap shimano on it, makes me question why I spent so much - though to be fair I haven’t taken it on a long downhill, but I suspect they’d be absolutely fine.
Nice concise take on the law of diminishing returns, excellent.
About that floating bite point, are you sure it isn't a bleeding issue? Sounds like it...
I'm not sure about the BL-MT200/201, but the BL-MT400/401/402 and the BL-M4100 actually do have reach adjustment - you can access it with a 2mm Allen wrench inside the pivot of the piston rod.
Love this. I have MT6120 4 piston brakes that came on my bike new. I've thought about upgrading but honestly, adding higher end pads than the OEM pads made a huge difference. Cheap upgrade. And the brakes work great. So you helped answer my question about upgrading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
@@jimross898 Upgrading pads definitely helps. I also upgraded the rotors on a pair of cheap SRAM brakes I had and it made a huge improvement
@@JaredHoff At some point in the near future, a rotor upgrade is in order for sure. But I don't want to go bigger as the type of trails I ride tend to bend stuff that hangs out. Like derailleurs. I'm a lightweight at 170# so not sure how to proceed. But I know how much difference incremental upgrades can make. If you have to replace a part, is it worth upgrading, even if the part is just brake pads or rotors? The answer is often yes. Upgrade the cheap OEM parts first. Where the OEM tries to shave a few bucks.
@@jimross898 for sure. Rotor size helps but I’ve also noticed thicker rotors or just more expensive rotors make a difference as well.
Now that's a good honest review..thanks mate
Thank you! That’s what I try to do 👍
Love my BT420 on my Norco Range ebike, especially the levers.
Everyone wants the one finger levers but wait until fatigue, RSI and arthritis takes out the one digit
Put a two piece Hope 220mm rotor on and they are smooth and quiet
I love my Shimano 6120 budget brakes on my e-bike. I am running 220mm HS2 rotors with purple Galfer metal pads. The results have been amazing!
@@Bittersfamily0424 nice 👍
I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!
Glad to have helped in anyway 👍
The best way to get the most value out of your brakes is to mix and match levers and calipers according to preference. You can have XT levers with the servo-thingy tech plus M6120 Deore 4-pot calipers for that ice tech with the finned pads at a lower cost.
Never quite understood why people upgrade just to have a "1 finger lever". Just use 1 finger on the bigger lever?
Word 👍
Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think.
I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking.
And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.
I hear ya man!
I always give honest feedback. However, I also love upgrading my bike so I’m always buying stuff I don’t “really” need for looks or marginal gains 😂 🤦♀️
On my ebike I run mt520 calipers with slx levers. 203mm magura and galfer 2.0mm thick rotors, with metalic pads. Absolutely amazing and budget frirendly.
I use the SLX BL-M7100 lever and I love them.
Heck yeah 👍
Thanks so much. I’m just about to create my old Avid BB7 cable brakes so this is extremely helpful. I also live in Oregon!
@@CaptMorgan24 nice 👍 you should come ride Spence Mountain sometime. My local trails.
Got the br m8100 with bl t8100 levers on my trekking bike, I wonder why they did not use the bl m8100 levers, because of my Rohloff twistshift, lever is pretty short but can not place them closer, because of the knob on the lever side. Also the free move of 25mm is to much, but can't be changed with this t8100. Thanks for the informative video!
Reach adjustment is also posible on the 4100 Lever by using a hexwrench, i don't know exactly wich number. An amazing video, thank you!
Thanks for taking time to comment 👍
The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price.
I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!
E-Bikes definitely require more stopping power. Finger pump is real 😂 I’m interested to see how these brakes hold up on longer downhill runs in the summer heat. I’ll probably end up needing to upgrade them 🤷🏼♂️ but we shall see
@@JaredHoff you nailed it with the two finger vs one finger usage in your review - riding with one finger on the MT4100 brake lever on DH runs longer than 30s is when it starts to hurt for me. Looking forward to your experiences when it gets warmer.
Same on my e-bike, not near enough braking if your a hard rider . Trps cheapest slate evos brakes are way better!
I could never see dishing out for XT components. I usually ran regular Shimano Deore brakes, couldn’t notice much difference from my friends XT setups.
I actually had awesome performance from my old Deore U brakes and cantilever setups.😝
Shimano has always made very high quality parts, nobody can match the Japanese when they design mechanical components. From fishing reels to bike components, to automotive they put a lot of effort into producing the highest quality parts.
But I think you’re right about not needing to buy the top of the line components and just appreciate the quality of the less expensive parts for the great value they are. Great topic btw, you read my mind.
I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.
👍 I will admit that my e-bike has a full XT brake setup and I love it, but the bike came that way so no need to change it.
Thanks for the info . I am building a mtb and so far i have got everything shimano xt m8100. And i haven't decided about the breaks but 4 piston sounds good😮 i was thinking magura 😮
I’ve heard good things about Magura. I’m really liking my TRP brakes right now
I've had XTR brakes and rotors on other bikes throughout my life, and the IceTech technology really does make a difference, but only in very specific fading situations. From a braking power standpoint I would say larger rotors and tires make the biggest difference, servowave gives you modulation in loose terrain situations.The setup you already had with the 203/180 rotors and 4-piston calipers is more than enough for the vast majority of applications, If you feel fading, the icetech rotors from the slx line will make a big difference, but don't use metal pads on them.
I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.
4-piston brakes for the win 🥇 I don’t own any XC bikes, so I always prefer 4-piston brakes
That doesn’t happen unless a diffetrential spring and separate pads for each set of pistons is employed, there is just more stiction in 4 piston brakes. The benefit to 4 piston is the pressure zone is wider and covers more of the rotor for heat dissipation.
Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.
Awesome! I definitely think I’m going to try swapping the levers in the future.
Me neither ... no difference whatsoever.
I just replaced my MT200 entry level brakes with M6100 2 piston brakes, which is a mid-level, and I use RT 56/54 rotors for rear/front respectively. I found the M6100 brake does improve, I would say, 15-20% of braking powers, but there are no significant differences I think. Anyway, this upgrade costs around $80 for buying M6100 brakes.😄
I have the MT420 calipers also while the levers that came with it are the BL-M410 i think.
I am wondering now which should I get the brake lever upgrade, the M6100, M7100 & M8100?
@@phil5073 M6100 is all you really need but depends on the sale you can find.
@@JaredHoff thanks
i am new to Hydraulic brakes, can you somewere, let the brake brake more or looser it a bit? i mean you cant pump in more fluid then fits.. , can not tighten or loosen it so it's not touching my pads anymore? i got the magura mt5-estop
Hi :) I had the same brakes (the same bike). Brakes were not strong enough for me for fast downhill descents. I mean there were enough force, but Ifaced hand fatigue after some time. Replacing levers with hig-end model to have servo wave was enough.
The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose.
Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401.
Along with XT in terms of rigidity.
Definitely need the high pressure brake line
This video is about MT420, which comes stock with HB90. Just like any other shimano's 4 piston brake.
Have you tried the 6100? I ride a heavy Levo and I am not too impressed with the Sram Code DOT brakes, they are noisy, squishy, and a PITA to work on compared to my XT8100 on my 5010. I found a good deal on Ebay for the 6100s, $104.00 a set. I am a cheapskate but I love good brakes.
6100s are good brakes 👍
Im working on a brake setup now i am putting an mt410 caliper on the rear an mt420 caliper front and xt 8100 levers. I want to test and see if i can get the brake modualtion like the magura trail set up. But with the ease of bleed of shimano and way better levers.
@@WV_MTB heck yeah 👍 got to try different options. I was just talking to my buddy the other day about how Shimano levers are just so damn easy to bleed like ever since I was a brand new beginner mechanic I could bleed those things perfectly yet you give me a set of SRAM breaks forget about it. I’m just learning how to bleed those things.
The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes.
My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons.
After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure.
My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.
Heck yeah! Thanks for the amazing comment. It definitely changes when you ride faster steeper trails and linger descents
@@JaredHoff 100%. I still have my first bike and I still take it out every now and then. The brakes are still good but I do notice that I need to apply more power than on my main bike but it's really only when I'm flying down a trail and need to stop fast.
What is important is that you replace the fluid from time to time otherwise the dirt which somehow gets in will wear the seals, especially at the handlebar.
I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...
Heck yeah 👍
I suspect that The wandering bite point is because the operator didnt service the brake right. I never had that issue when i fully back out the free stroke and set the brake pad properly. I dont adjust the free stroke until i have the right gap on the pads and rotor.
👍
I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components.
My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts.
I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action.
The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force.
Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer.
Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared.
Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors.
The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each.
So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors.
However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!
Definitely all adds up. Prices have been dropping though. My Polygon N8E came with XT brakes, IceTech rotors and pads. It’s actually pretty amazing 🤩
@@JaredHoffYeah prices have definitely come down a lot!
I bought my XT components in may 2022 and I still remember the cassette was about 250 bucks, while its half now.
Most other components have lowered like 20~25% in price.
After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.
Thanks for the long term review 👍
I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.
I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.
Heck yeah! Don’t fix if it ain’t broken 👍
I hate my Shimano mt-420, TRPs cheapest brakes(slate evo) feel way better breaking power and just feel better.
bro just enlightened me and my wallet on why not to buy XT when you hai shinano 401 ❤️😂 bro saved my money
Not to mention - when the servo wave cracks inside the XT levers, you can't buy just the servo wave piece to replace the cracked one.... You have to buy a new lever. for that reason alone, I'd buy the 420's.
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the 4100s still have a reach adjustment? You just use a small wrench instead of the knob on the XT
They did t have reach adjustment, but I never needed it.
i will switch from Cube Action Team with XT Breaks to Touring MTB with MT420 Breaks. Now i think its good for Ebike Touring.
Awesome 👍
Regular Shimano hydrolic disk brakes work for me.I have them on multiple bikes for years with no problems
Most definitely 👍
im still using my cheap unkown brand hydrolic brake for 3 years now, and the braking power is still strong....but i might retire it next year, due to rust...
@@elfaranelasul6886 yeah I think sometimes there’s too many professional mountain bikers who are trying to tell us what type of brakes we should ride
I ride MT 200s on my XC bike, one fat tire bike, my commuter and one fitness bike. I can't say for sure if they are suitable for harsh DH riding since I don't ride DH, but for my use case they offer enough power and enough heat capacity. I never regretted using them, even if more expensive models may have a nicer feeling but for higher costs and more complexity
@@simonm1447 for sure 👍
I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄
@@reallybigphilly I’m not sure if they have any aftermarket pads like that.
I had a 2020 trek fuel ex 9.7 equipped with the mt4100 levers, I was convinced to swap levers to the mt8100, the feel was not even close to the same, mt8100 was so much worse, couldn't bleed them enough to get enough bite back, worst swap I'd ever done, also I was working at a shop that had access to shimano parts and got a good discount, but it ruined how my bike felt
Oh man! That sucks to try and upgrade and not like it. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.
Heck yeah! I have the 6100s on a bike and really liked those.
I wonder if it depends on where you go. Sometimes I go down a serpentswinging road, declining 8% for 5 km. I guess that is a road where brake quality makes a difference. When I go to work, 17 km, there are no big declines and all decent brakes are good enough.
Definitely 👍
I just bought a new bike that has the xt brakes literally a week ago, and the current bike has mt 420.
Currently in the proces of adjusting the xt brakes to feel like the mt420 ones because those felt literally perfect for my liking, and they did so for a year straight without bleeding or adjusting anything.
If there is a difference in braking its miniscule (at least in urban enviroment I didnt get the chance to test the new ones offroad yet, but I never had a problem with mt420 ever).
Id buy the 520 just because I like the single finger lever more than the big one on the 420
@@grgagabric4369 definitely like the 520 single finger levers
Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.
I would check with your local bike shop. They can look that up and help you get the best answer.
Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)
SRAM code R’s always seem to take a bit to get setup right.
Hi jared. I have a shimano mt200 brakes. And i want change to deore m4100. Is it worth it? Is there much difference? Thank you :)
Yes, it’s worth it. Maybe even move up the the Deore M6100s if the price is right.
With the bike market right now,,, I’ve seen some amazing prices.
I'd like to see servo-wave levers + 2-piston brakes compared to normal levers + 4 piston brakes
Actually there is a reach adjustment on the 4100. It's a small Allen screw right inside the hinge. All non series has it in fact.
👍
the cheaper have resin pistons that can melt at high pad temperature instead of transferring the heat to the oil like the ceramic pistons on SLX and higher. also, the m6100 levers are barely more expensive than m4100 but can improve on the M4100 series brakes. the 4 pot calipers for sure runs on BH90, so no problem combinig it with m6100 levers
You said SLX and higher. So I guess the BR-6120 Deore 4 pistons suffer from the same quality issue you mentioned, right?
@@staLkerhuyes, resin pistons don't shatter, but can melt/deform under serious braking conditions when lots of heat is generated
Well, I think I will stick to the cheaper models, since I've never experienced such thing. I just bought a 2009 Commencal Fury and I will sell the crappy Elixirs came with it.
I will keep my old first gen servo wave Deore rear brake, and replace my Alivio BR-M445 with a new BR-M6120 for front. @@JoLe1991
BR-MT520 and MT6120 caliper both have ceramic pistons. MT420 are the only 4 pot Shimano callipers that use resin pistons I think.
1:00 A issue with this design on Deore m615, M6000,6100 brakes is reach adjustment effects the power, how farther piston can be pressed.
There is no adjustment to counter act that, so if you have long fingers, you have a powerful brake, and with short fingers, but adjusted for short fingers, a smal child the brake pads will barely touch the rotor, so the brakes won't be functional at all. the stock position fits me, but lacks power.
🤔 never thought of the reach adjustment effecting power like that, but it makes sense that a lever with more throw would force more power to the pistons.
@@JaredHoff that's not what I meant, what you mention is called leverage, which means a longer lever, makes it easier to press the lever blade, like a breaker bar vs a small hex key, but that's not an big issue with modern brakes. I am talking the mechanism, lever not being connected to the push rod, but to the servo wave mechanism.
but of course if lever is all the way to the lever that's not enough to brake properly, that's not what I mean, I mean the push rod cant be pressed, as the lever is moved in, but mechanism is not adjusted, there needs to be a counter adjustment, if you check out a video about Hope brakes, you will see what I mean, they don't have servo wave, but they do have adjustment to adjust the modulation, and reach, so you can have grabbyand grabby brakes or less grabby. the cheap brake you showed has a lever blade connected directly to the push rod, so the adjustment moves the pivot, thus the lever blade further in on the push rod, thus power remains the same.
I was hoping for you to compare m6100 instead of m4100 brakes. Good content!
Thanks man 👍
How do you put fringe on those little brake levers? That's the important question.
😂
Why can't they mount tiny electric DC motor which will be creating vaccum in the hydraulic brake system (like in car) and power it by battery charged by dynamo hub in wheel?
Making small servo unit it easy nowadays. Even ABS modul is possible.
I’m not smart enough to answer 😂 but I’m sure there’s a resin it won’t work 🤷🏼♂️
one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result!
the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍
Awesome! That’s what it’s all about.
H03A or H03C ? do the pads mount from the top without modification ? i order m420 with SM-RT66, What disc do you use ? Thanks so much !
I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!
Thanks 👍💯
I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed.
The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best.
For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.
👍
Four piston vs two piston is the main issue one should be concerned about . i have two piston on my older model cube and go four piston magura (mt5) on my Nox . the difference in stopping power is huge
For XC riders,,, I’d stick with 2 piston. BUT I’ve never owned an XC bike so 4-piston is what I run.
I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?
I don’t think these brakes are suited for E-MTB.
You could try upgrading the brake levers, and getting bigger/better rotors. Ive heard of people using TRP rotors on shimano brakes.
i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊
Deore 4-pistons work amazing
I like my mt420s… loved my old mt200s from like the early 2000s… if I do any brake upgrading it will be to replace my code r’s with something like a slx or slate type brake.
@@kyleslater5245 those are both good options
I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.
Heck yeah 👍
I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well.
Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises.
I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want
more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.
Sorry to hear you’re having those issues. The e-bike I just got has XT brakes with ice tech rotors and pads. It’s been working great. Although, I had to bed the brakes in really good before they started to bite.
Totally agree that modulation just feels spongy, I have xt 2 pot callipers and love the bite, I can hardly pull the lever past the initial bite point which is great...can still modulate but with far less input. No ice tech stuff.
@@AdamBrowne-eg1eb Ice Tech discs are much too soft and also too expensive!
had mt200 on my xc mtb for years with no problems, but also im very timid on descents and a lot of my riding is closer to gravel than mtb :P
I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders
Good advice 👍
I have mixed all. 6120 with other levers and front xtr disc. but the ice tech discs are too soft and too expensive. gonna mix it up with magura 😃
we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think?
I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot
We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking
XT brakes are good. Check out TRP brakes as well. Check out the Trek Fuel EX 7 I got. Comes with TRP Slate brakes, which are the low model 4-Pistons but they work so good.
I'm looking for a brake with a large piston retraction. Can you recommend something?
I’m not sure about the differences between specific brake brands piston retraction. Are you trying to avoid rotors rubbing on brake pads?
this is currently my conundrum, I'm running MT200s and I'm thinking of upgrading to either MT501s or M6100s. My thing is, they are both 2-piston brakes, and both levers look almost exactly the same but the MT501s are about $30-$40 cheaper each. I honestly have no problem with the stopping power of the MT200s, I just don't like the lever design. I could just replace the MT200 levers with MT501 levers but then I'm spending around $90 just for both the levers, so I may as well just spend a little bit more and buy a whole new brake.
I think sometimes when it comes to upgrades, there’s a common sense approach that tells you that it’s a waste of money to spend extra money on something that you don’t really need. But you also have to take into account the fact that those little upgrades does little things you do to your bike to really make you love your bike. I mean those are important too and really I’ve done some upgrades that people think are a waste of money, but I don’t regret it at all because I’m stoked on the way my bike looks and how it performs.
my iphone 14 works well, but I prefer the the iPhone 14 pro max looks better 😂
currently on M6000 2 pots. Is it worth it and much different if I change to M6120 4 pots?
@@yudhaasukma 4 pots makes a bike difference for steep, long downhill runs. But not needed for XC riding
No personal experience, but i do watch some budget bike comparisons where cheap breaks lose power halfway through a run occasionally.
@@tjh221 yup 👍
Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?
I usually run shorter levers. I’m always testing and trying to make videos to help people find what’s best for them.
I definitely wouldn’t replace my short levers with longer ones. But I was really surprised how good these long levers performed.
@JaredHoff
Thanks for you answer! I currently run Magura MT5 calipers with M6100 levers. Those are strong enough, but seriously lack modulation. I got better modulation with Magura 2-finger levers, but broke their plastic body on the first ride in a minor crash. Thats why I'm still going to give the M4100s a try.
I will write a comment how they worked for me afterwards.
best choice will be mt520, as i know it has same pistons diameter in caliper as 6120 and higher (420 has smaller pistons), it comes with short lever servowave handles as higher models does. you can also install icetech pads in 520 caliper. and it is well known that free stroke feature doesn`t actually work on shimano handles so you wount miss much without it.
👍
You should have 2mm allen underneath the lever to adjust the reach
👍
Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?
Just check the brake hose and make sure it’s the BH-90 high pressure hose and you should be good to go.
M420 calipers take the same pads as my Shimano Zees and Saints on my other bikes. Swapped out the levers to M7100 levers to have a simlar feel to my Zees and Saints. Have them equipped on my Trek Rail 7 and to be honest, I don't notice any difference in stopping performance. My wife prefers this setup compared to the zees on her Mega
Awesome info. Thanks man 👍🏻
Hi, did u ever measured the size of the pistons of the 420 ? Are they the same size as the XT ceramic pistons ?
I have MT200 on My bike . I'm Thinking Switching a Slx lever . I don't like the lever feel of Non series but the power of that cheap ones is enough I just need to change the Hose to BH90
It’s all about those little upgrades that make the bike perform the way you want.
Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))
Thank you! Slash 8 is an amazing MTB
I did upgraded my budget brakes into XT, huge difference for me... I like to ride XCO trails, so I'm happy with my investment 😊
@@ernis1556 nice 👍