Don't forget, due to the FAA's restrictions on medications for antidepressants or anxiety disorders being potentially career ending delays or restrictions for pilots and air traffic controllers, both groups are significantly under-reporting issues at the workplace.
Yep... if you so much as breath any issues you'll have your wings taken. Then, if you want them back, you have to go to a HIMS and put your own money up to convince people you're "normal". Absolutely fucked. Can't even be upset for normal shit like... a death in the family... for more than like 5 minutes.
This seems like a ridiculous policy. Now sure, if someone starts a new medication, maybe they should take some time off and check that it's not causing cognitive impairment. But once they adjust to the medication, it's entirely possible it will lead to improved performance. These things should be tested methodically, not prohibited by unscientific knee-jerk responses.
Oh it's a whole lot more. And the saddest fact is the Reagan policies, laws, regulations, theories & legislations is what federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives fight&obstruct for til this very day; they just put new names on it but it's the same ole policies, laws, regulations, theories& legislations just in new lipstick.
Medically retired controller here. If any CPC's are watching this, it's not worth it. They will literally bleed you dry, and not even think twice about it. Y'all hold some of the most power in this country, you could bring the economy to its knees if you decided enough was finally enough. I say it's damned time, before we have bodies raining out of the sky because it let some billionaire get another tax break and buy a second yacht.
It's a golden handcuffs issue. An FPL with 20 years experience can make pretty decent money but has no skills transferable to other industries. It sucks.
Again, unions. You are literally the backbone of the most important transport mode. If you seriously demand better circumstances, they will have to listen. Which is why you need unions so that any strike actually strikes hard@@BravoCharleses
When looking at the money we are already spending on everything, more money for the atc program is a drop in the bucket. It isn't a tax break problem, it isn't a money problem, it's a govt inefficiency problem. You know the rules, can't start after 30, cant work past 56. Pilots earn twice as much, work only 1000 hours a year, no minimum age much lower, max age much higher, the private sector values them. The govt doesn't buy votes by fixing a problem that most people are oblivious to. Your eat the rich comment is talking out your ass.
@@growlith6969 Who the hell do you think buys the government in the first place? The wealthy do all they can to hamper the government at every turn, and since we have legalized bribery in this nation it works every time. I've seen what privatization does from the inside, it's a total cluster fuck. And trust, no amount of rhetorical handjobs you give them online will ever get you in their club. The rich get rich via exploitation, period.
Fun Fact: The Reagan Administration still holds the all-time record for people who served and were convicted of felonies during their tenure. Yet, the American people voted for him twice, like turkeys voting for the Thanksgiving butcher!😢☮️
🦃s have way more brains than federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, b**mers, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives, don't insult 🦃s like that ‼️ B**mers as they watch Fox News/ NewsMaxx/ oann be like I'm $ struggling in my o** age, why is it like that? And no matter how many times you explain to them it's like that because you vote/elect for it to be &stay like that they still go out and vote for, elect, donate to, help to get elected/reelected, revote for, support and or reelect any federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals and conservatives 😬🤔 It's like man after 44 long years you just refuse to ever learn huh ⁉️
depends on where they are working. I see $55k starting pay is common. I've worked as a pharmacy technician for about that much, and the pay was not worth the stress. I assume ATC is more stressful than pharmacy, and thus even less worth it.
I spent my 20s on ATC, worked at 3 different airports. Everything in this video is accurate to my experience at each of those facilities. The alcoholic stuff? Not exaggerated. Also? I quit because I was depressed and anxious to the point of not being able to eat. I was miserable and turning into a skeleton. It's a tough job with a toxic culture in an unsustainable system. Even worse if you're a woman.
I've heard it's a toxic culture there with a huge bro culture. Glad you were able to remove your golden handcuffs. I'm sure that was hard cuz my friends ATCs can't leave due to high pay, solid benefits, and early retirement.
Started the video and already knew that 'Reagan, that dolt (sorry village dolts, you do fine work)" would be an apt answer before completing. Halfway through, I was reaffirmed.
I already read the NYT article, so this wasn't news to me, but it's still horrifying that we allow a profession where an accident could result in a fiery ball of at least 100 dead people to be staffed like a Wal-Mart with the same levels of desperation and apathy. And while mental health standards should be high, I'd rather my ATCs be on 60mg of Cymbalta than six shots of Captain Morgan.
@@Indigoporcelain As someone who has had both, you're delusional for thinking that. One is an SNRI that for the most part, levels you off and is part of a process to help with depression. The other can result in blackouts and poor coordination at those levels. People can (and do) function on the former on an everyday basis. The last time I tried to do the same with the latter... it wasn't pretty.
@EbonySaints if it's helping you, great! But frankly speaking, I don't think I want people self medicating with alcohol or on strong anti-depressants or other brain altering drugs being in charge of thousands of planes in the sky! I'd rather them be completely clear-headed. If regular people working as ATCs are already beyond stressed out, I don't think people who need meds to level them out, as you say, will fair better.
Add to that any emergency personnel (doctors, police, fire, EMT). They work 12 to 24 hour shifts all the time. It's insane that some of the most crucial professions have some of the longest and most grueling shifts on the planet.
The phrase "near miss" simply means a miss that was near to being a hit. It is not intended to be misleading. And let's put this in perspective against the roughly 40,000 Americans who die in motor vehicle crashes each year.
During the last government shutdown I owned a doughnut shop. I had made a declaration that anyone impacted by the shutdown in our area would get a free doughnut for everyone in their family, each day of the shutdown. An ATC reached out to me and asked if I had any ideas for their regional operations center, since they were still working, and unpaid! Luckily I was able to rally local citizens and our ingredient supplier for donations, and my wife and I delivered 20 dozen, enough for everyone at the center, during one of their shift changes to maximize inclusion. It's one of the greatest honors I've ever had. I'll forever be impressed by their commitment.
I was on vacation (we had to schedule them a year in advance) when a government shutdown occurred, and got furloughed because I couldn't get back from Hawaii in time to make my shift. Every time the Republicans were in charge crap happened to us. The Republicans only care about making their rich friends richer and privatizing every government entity they can to make money off of it.
I can remember back in 1982, while working for a liquor chain in Anchorage Ak, one of my coworkers had recently stopped being an air traffic controller, he had made me aware of some of the challenges that they were faced with, I'm appalled that in 42 years it has not been rectified and only gotten worse.
Government. As a private pilot, I can say they should self-fund airports with landing and parking fees. Hangar rent. Fuel sales, bunk rooms, showers, food, and what have you. The private business sector generally provides better service for the same or less price as government.
Wow. It's almost as if every industry is trying to shave more and more dollars off of operating costs by overscheduling, understaffing and going lax on safety.
One of my friends works in the atc tower in an unnamed west coast city, he says that almost everyone in the tower is on adderall to keep up with work, recently there was a near miss and there was a huge investigation. They got lucky. Next time they might not. They need more staff and shorter shifts. Everyone there works 10-12 hour shifts regularly.
That’s all I’ve worked are under paying jobs unfortunately. Union jobs my Grandfather and my father were paid well for are now jobs that are nonunion ( thank you Ronald Reagan) and pay poorly. All for what ? So a few greedy people can be billionaires while the rest of us suffer.
My first 'real' job was as a printers helper in a non union shop in 1980. The company kept the union out by offering us a very nice compensation package. Especially coming up from McDonalds and 7/11. You know, my career in food service and retail...
THIS is why we need to break out of the two-party trap and elect a third party candidate this year. There are at least two candidates who seem to actually care about the people who waste their lives to line the pockets of the rich.
@@5qu34k99Voting for a third party candidate will hand the election to Trump. If Trump wins, there will only ever be one party, & voting will be a thing of the past. VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE!
@@kellykat8057 Not if enough people decide to make the switch. Unfortunately by applying that logic in the last election we ended up with our country supporting a genocide. Not that it would be any different under the orange monster's rule, but we can't let the fear of trump as a dictator force us into voting for anyone that would support genocide. I'd almost rather get the laughing-stock, psycho narcissist, rapist back and fight a civil war against his cult. Biden is better than trump by a very thin margin, but he's lost my trust. Stein or West are the only options I see and I think West might have a better chance so far. I wish they were running together. Say NO MORE and go third-party in 2024!
@@kellykat8057 I'm not sure what happened to my other reply. Maybe because I called trump the r-word (because he is one...). Hopefully the reply is still here and I just can't see it for some reason. But in case it's not... I won't vote for anyone who supports genocide. Never trump and no longer Biden. Third party is the only option. With thinking like yours, we'll never break out of the problem. That's how I felt about the last election and now I feel that Biden doesn't deserve my vote. He's lost my trust. I'm done with the BS. Third-party is the only path forward and the only chance this country has of being something good. If enough people wake up to that fact, then we won't have to worry about the manchild winning.
The problem is that a job that crucial is often hammered down by the powers that be for even daring to speak up. Remember the rail workers who wanted to go on strike in 2022? It was still in the tail end of the acute supply chain problem, and Biden didn't want another bad economy story, so he effectively screwed over the unions with a less than bare minimum deal that let the rail companies continue their hijinks.
Wait till you find out how crucial all working class are. Remember what they called people working in grocery stores, hospitals, and more just a few years ago? I remember.
Why so they can be paid less? Ironically the issue with aviation today are the Unioned workers doing a shitty job and getting people killed. Did you not see the crash last week?
@@ninjagirl226Union workers average 18% higher wages and have better job security. Get your facts straight and come with sources before making wild claims.
In major cities they make $150,000+. I think the highest paid controllers made $200,000+. Is it worth it? I’m going to find out. I’m currently in the final hiring stage for the FAA to be an ATC trainee. It really isn’t about making a livable wage, more about work life balance.
Correct the delayed echo / ripple effect. Also Bush screwed things additionally by not hiring when the Reagan strike controllers approached retirement.
@@ninjagirl226 an illogical statement - you can't talk to a dead person. regardless - the video already pointed out things were bad before reagan - given you actually watched the video, which appears unlikely. included was the lies reagan's told, his laying off of 11,000 workers immediately, and violent arrests of union leaders and chaining them up. so yes, reagan did objectively make the issue significantly worse - QED. not a debate
They are government employees, so the government has always known. And it is not a problem unique to the US. Countries like Canada and Australia face similar shortages. What this video didn't mention is that the number of flights or air traffic increased significantly over the past few decades but ATC hasn't been able to keep up.
That’s wasn’t an accurate statement. Anything over 40 hours a week or in some cases 80 hours in a biweekly pay period shall be OT. It’s not 60+OT. 60 is the max it could ever be for ATC.
You are aware that unionization led to the transatlantic slave trade, right? Not even kidding, the plantation owners were pissed off that their current workers were refusing to work for more than half of their workday (literally a 5 hour break in the middle of the day and all kinds of other stuff), so they went elsewhere for labor. All strikes are extra-legal, but some are definitely immoral.
Industrial maintenance, this profession was solid middle class if not upper less than 30 years ago, now we can't even afford a house. There is 24 mechanics total keeping 8 lines running 24/7 at my current job, those lines make $15,000 an hour each worth of product and cant keep running without us, the company makes millions of dollars every quarter but we dont even get a $50 bonus quarterly unless there's no injury across the entire plant and we hit numbers that are borderline unobtainable.
It feels like a slap in the face when record profits gets reported on and the company comes out talking about employees being their backbone…. Just to give us RTIC tumblers with the company logo on it instead of $$$$$ which is the only reason we work there. These companies like to pretend that we are there to build their dreams and not feed ourselves of invest in our children.
I was a controller at ZJX for 11 years. I was very proud to work along side some amazing people and do what I thought was the coolest job. Unfortunately towards my last few years there, everything that the video mentioned became too much for me. I was not abusing drinking or anything like that, for me it was my mental health. I attempted various times to get help but I always ended up with roadblocks. It's sort of embarrassing to say this, but eventually I couldn't handle it anymore and had a panic attack and collapsed at work. Luckily I had finished my briefing and was not talking to any live traffic when it happened. I ended up in the ER and decided there and then I'd never go back. It was one of the hardest, but best decisions. I only have the upmost respect for my previous coworkers and hope that the job gets better. It was an amazing job and my reasons for leaving it should have never happened.
@toro man sorry to hear. That gotta be a stressful what you went through man. What do you think could help ATCs deal with it better while still making sure air safety is prioritized?
I was an air traffic controller in the Air Force for 4 years. Quit doing it when I got out in 2005 and went into airfield management. I've been saying this for years and years. The next major accident in the US involving an airline, with fatalities, will most likely be a runway collision due to ATC error. Came very close many times in the last few years. Most of them I don't think many people really know about either if they don't follow aviation related stuff closely. Should have stuck it out though. Seems like they're desperate for controllers. I really liked tower. Hated RAPCON, which was sitting in a dark room staring at a radar scope. Tower was fun - way up high watching everything out on the airfield.
I've bounced around a few jobs over the last 8 years, the only things that have pushed me to quit are relocating and being unable to commute, or blatant management failures. Delivering pizza was the latter; Papa Johns has a bullshit corporate policy that set the maximum in store wage to $10 an hour, which wasn't too problematic for the drivers since we got tips, but we had a single in-store employee by the time I left, and he was only there because he was the underage ward of an assistant manager who could give him a ride to work with her. I don't mean he was only there in the sense of that relationship being the only reason he got the job, but he only stayed there because he could get a ride. Meanwhile the KFC, McDonalds, Arbys, Taco Bell, and Burger King a block away all started at $15/hour.
Accessible transportation is a real problem in the states. We need to reduce stroads and invest in walkable and pedestrian priority areas. Along with more specific train and bus routes
What do you think they can do now to fix shortage gap? Seems certifying time takes years, so no quick fix. However, curious what steps you think FAA can take to dec shortage or what work can be automated from ATCs plate to bring balance?
"With alot of mistakes happening it's not hard to attribute that fatigue with the decade plus run of facilities using overtime as a crutch for staffing...." All companies in America have shifted to this model I have experienced this at EVERY SINGLE JOB I'VE WORKED IN THE LAST 8 YEARS. They swear they are going to hire more people but don't have any active job listing. The only time companies are fully staffed are during "peak seasons" when they know things will be waaaaaay out of hand because business is increased (for afew months usually 2-3 out the year). Healthcare (during holiday months because families complain when they see how things are normally), Railroad work, Security, Kitchens, warehouses, Teaching, and Retail so many jobs are doing this it's crazy!
Shortstaffing seems to have become a normal part of the U.S. business model across many fields and industries. No suprise it probably began with Reagan.
I met and fell in love with a Canadian woman who was an air traffic controller. She made it very clear she could never move down here, and would never move down here, due to the results of the PATCO strikebreaking. We’re still friends, 20 years later. The air traffic situation down here is still fucked, 20 years later.
i'm not surprised, as soon as they talked about how crappy everything is, i knew it would trace back to regan no suprise that the industry thats famous for having its union DESTROYED is a living nightmare
Not all. Its more the point that its a concerted effort that keeps being re-applied through the years. It was true before Nixon and after Reagan featured in this video and the reason union membership dropped, wages stagnated, and the rich got richer despite multiple crises and crashes.
@@CanadianWolverine fair points. Just funny to me how often I find issues leading back to old Ronny at some point. Usually they do extend to before Reagan's time but typically he is involved.
Their overtime and hold on hiring sounds exactly like the situation my friend dealt with as a 911 dispatcher. They have so much mandatory overtime on top of their 10 hour shifts 6 days a week, and it severely impacted both her health but also the lack of staffing means that call times exceed the regulations all the time, and dispatchers can’t do as good of a job when they’re so overworked
This is nothing new. My late uncle who passed away in 1991 was an air traffic controller after being stationed in Korea and Japan with the US Navy. These problems were still problems 40 years ago, and they haven't gotten any better. It's an incredibly stressful, broken job.
I'm not shocked. The system of careful quality assurance at Boeing and the airlines has been breaking down for years. They started at such an excellent place that it's taking time to show up in dramatic ways, but without a reversal of direction, fatal collisions and crashes are inevitable.
My dad was actually the pilot for the FedEx plane in the first clip!!! He got a safety award from the pilot's union! it was weird as hell hearing his voice in a RUclips video XD
THAT LITERALLY WAS SUCH a Big deal... and his SAVAGE MIS- TREATMENT of the A.T.C. UNION'S BROTHERHOOD became the "TONE" HIS presidency is KNOWN for HAVING DIRECTLY CAUSED ALMOST EVERY OTHER EMPLOYER STAFFED WITH UNION LABOR to be CRIPPLED by the SUDDEN EPIPHANY realized by ALL the MIDDLE CLASS EMPLOYERS AT THE SAME TIME- LABOR "PROTECTION" at the Federal Level Shifted drastically AWAY from the Benefit of the worker To benefiting the Owners At least "effectively" Resulting in this outcome MORE THAN not by way of how "friendly" the Reagan NLRB was to CLAIMS of Violating Union Rights, Freedom to Organize, etc. Under Reagan the UNIONS OF OUR NATION... starting THAT day in 1981.. Decline SHARPLY FROM around 25+% Union Jobs for a strong MIDDLE CLASS income & Benefit PKGs, etc To around 15% by 1990... In the same time frame of course you can see it when we LOST the WAGES and the benefits along with the unions
They privatized my local control tower and the new controllers were shockingly bad, like actually incompetent. Exactly the kind of people you want providing sequencing and separation services. Thankfully the TRACON and ARTCC are still good, but you cant trust local towers anymore for a variety of reasons. Love my controllers but man, it is scary at times.
I was hired as a replacement controller after Reagan fired all the PATCO Union Controllers. The fired PATCO guy who got up and said, "I'd like to talk to all you replacement controllers. Give it a try, and come back and talk to me in 5 years." He NAILED IT! It was only 5 years after all of us replacement controllers were hired that we got FED UP with FAA Management and we all voted to form our own NEW Union called NATCA which is still battling FAA Management to this day!
Reagan played the role of a movie sheriff, having a showdown with a very important part of our economy that he did not really understand, because he was an actor, not someone committed to comprehension or becoming educated deeply about anything.
65 for pilots isn't even that old. I don't see an issue with it. Used to be 60 though. Can't remember when they raised it. I think like 2005. Recently congress was trying to raise it to 67, but I believe that didn't make it anywhere.
@@ninjagirl226 How is that "hell on Earth"? That's a great schedule for an extremely stressful and demanding job - particularly one that pays very well (and given all the stress and demands of the job, it should be paying very well). Granted, it would mean hiring a hell of a lot more ATCs and greatly increasing their pay. But when you consider how incredibly important their jobs are and how critical it is that the ppl staffing the ATC towers are alert and able to manage their workload safely? Yeah, those changes make all the sense in the world! It would also help with passengers as well. I know I don't want to fly with the way things are right now - especially if I have to go through a big airport like O'Hare. The big airports where they handle a ton of traffic every hour? Those are the ones where an accident is most likely to happen.
@SadisticSenpai61 Especially as these days, it might not just be the ATC a pilot has to worry about. Sometimes, it's a question if his plane can even fly
@@waffles3629 Yes. Because boredom. Also if you are working part time and very few hours my general experience is that you don’t really know what to do because you lack experience. This leads to more accidents like the idiot who nearly blew up the lab at my last job. We already have poorly trained mechanics let’s not make the issue worse
I'm a retired Army Controller. Now, you can add the DEI into the equation of recruiting a future Air Traffic Controller. Their nationality, race, gender identity, and skin color far outweigh their mental ability, test score results, or aptitude for this profession. Want the inside scoop? Talk to ex-controllers or Airline Pilots.
Imagine not protecting the same people who keep YOU and YOUR FAMILY safe in the skies. But also let me tell you that there are ATCs that only fly when certain ATCs are on duty. That's how suspicious they are of each other 😳
DEI hires are the problem. Hiring people who are only qualified, not based on experience, but because they check all the right boxes is going to result in a catastrophe soon.
6 day work weeks with 10 hour shifts? Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I am currently interested in becoming an ATC in my country and we have 4 day work weeks with 8 hour shifts. 2 hours of that shift is paid break time. I am surprised nothing too bad happened yet.
i saw a job opening for an Air Traffic Controllers, it was going to be pay training, but they want people to be between 25 to 30 years old they wanted someone young. If they are in need of this much people why don't they want anyone older?
@@df20001 I understand the short lifespan of the job, what i don't understand is why they only want them young. For example at 25 i would not have wanted a very high stress job, and most like wound not be able to do it. Now at 35 years old with years of working in a call center for both internet phone and with my job right now, i am able to handle stress so much better now then ever before. I feel that someone that just came out of collage, someone that just was able to drink legally for 4 years, may not be the best person to do air traffic controllers. They may not be able to handled the stress. I also feel that the job was not paying people that much, i think it was maybe 65k in Dallas TX. So my issue is why only the young and why so little in pay.
Stressful, life-or-death jobs like ATC, paramedics, etc., should be part-time, 20 hours a week, with full pay and benefits. We need full and I daresay redundant staffing for these jobs for the health and safety of EVERYONE, workers and those who rely on them.
@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 Great thing about traveling within the US is that there isn't any blue water in the way unless you want to go to Alaska or Hawaii
Americans have accepted the status quo and functionally checked out from participation in any meaningful aspect of politics or their working lives (as a whole) until and unless labor begins participating and supporting other labor instead of judging labor, shaming labor, and promoting the myths management pushes on labor. Gotta manage ourselves up.
You stated, "a year after Reagan was elected, none of the changes had been made at the FAA". Well, to be historically accurate President Reagan was elected on 04NOV80, took the oath of office 20JAN81, and began negotiations with PATCO in February 0f 1981. The union rejected the Federal Gov't offer (34.2% raise over 3 years), and struck of 03AUG81. That's just over 6 months, and the offer was monetarily greater than that of the Carter Administration.
Make no mistake - D.E.I. is having its predictable effects on air traffic safety. As an airline pilot, every major screwup from air traffic control (ATC) I’ve seen in the last 10 years has come at the hands of someone that wouldn’t have made the cut 10 or 15 years ago.
Another good reason for union members to never vote for a Republican. They hate unions. Retired controller here. I love how people with no real idea of facts spew them. ATC pay is public. If you take the time to look it up, it's on the web. Just look up ATC pay bands. Starting pay at a busy facility such as Charlotte is about $80k. Top salaries to senior controllers is $160k plus. Overtime, night pay, trainer pay and other types of pay can boost the salary to over $200k at busy facilities. This story, like so many stories on the web is only partially accurate.
I'm a recently retired controller and the problem isn't the PATCO strike, it was Clinton and Congress in the 90's that stopped hiring new controllers from '91 through almost '98. So all the late 80's and 1990 hires (like myself) have been hitting the mandatory age 56 retirement age over the past few years, with that long gap in the pipeline behind us. Then there was the 2008-2016 hiring disaster years where they switched to hiring controllers based on racial and cultural characteristics instead of mental skills, knowledge and abilities which led to wasted years of training people who ultimately did not certify. We are suffering for those decisions now.
Not really. Those people would be gone now. It’s the hiring after the big 09 boom that just stopped when they got sued over the testing then during covid again. Wait until the group in 09 start to go in five years. It’s gonna be real fun lol
I was hired in '82 and worked at a ARTCC. Retirements were and are a huge factor and the DEI push at the academy and facilities set back the program several years.
The entire training environment (for lack of a better term) needs to be revamped, from selection to the academy, to OJT at the facility. I was blessed with great OJTI's who cared about my training and trained me to succeed. Others I know had OJTI's who didn't give a crap about proper training. The whole training system needs an overhaul. What doesn't help is the actual hiring process. People can wait years to hear whether they've been selected. By the time they get the word, they're already involved in a promising career doing something else.
@797I was lucky to be hired in '82. From the time I took the CST to getting a offer to go to OKC academy was maybe 2 months. But the selection process changes depending on the FAA's goals. It is not consistent. They have change the training system many times over the years. Staffing numbers keep changing also. They start to ramp up training and the numbers get lowered for staffing. They have never had a way to estimate the number of people really retiring. They always underestimate the number. People who apply shouldn't have to wait years to know if they can start training.
Jacksonville Center certainly needs some staffing help. All it takes are a couple of clouds in the sky and “flow programs” go into effect for anyone crossing through their airspace. Which means delays from coast to coast.
you mean like surgens/ doctors? wow ... welp anything we really depend our lives on... "function" like this. mean while they're thinking of adding more flights...
Can we discuss the deliberate destruction of passenger rail? Can we discuss the pursuit of growth at all costs, and plainly unnecessary travel by the wealthy which accounts for a large % of the load? Controllers are compelled to deal with private flights, Who is in charge of the skies? The people or Wall Street? Most air travel is just stupid. Business boys running around feeling important, pop culture tours no one needs, and with luxury and much small craft air travel just a selfish desire to be apart from ordinary people, rather than build a shared sustainable infrastructure that we can all benefit from. Airplanes are essentially classist and have become the locus of both terrorism and authoritarianism. Just don't bother with them, and take away the subsidies for rich people's private flights, Problem solved.
I went up to a tower a couple months ago and talked to the staff, they don’t even have half of the staff they’re supposed to have and they all agreed the only way it will change is when a collision occurs.
Can't imagine being an ATC after so many years of neglect to the field. I'm sure someone will fill those shoes once they're made available, but I feel bad for all those people who are going through Hell just trying to keep our planes flying.
Eh guy ignored the real issues in aviation to push propaganda that will continue to leave just as many pilots dead. Sad and frustrating as the victim of this shit.
Woooow who would have guessed the New York Times would do bad reporting that screws over the people they're interviewing? Entire Trans Community: "Somebody better pick up that phone because I CALLED IT!"
The more I look around, this seems to be the case with most major companies across most industries... Poor working conditions, overworked employees, old/malfunctioning equipment, etc.
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
Don't forget, due to the FAA's restrictions on medications for antidepressants or anxiety disorders being potentially career ending delays or restrictions for pilots and air traffic controllers, both groups are significantly under-reporting issues at the workplace.
But boy do they drink!!!!
That's covered @ 7:53.
You don't have to be a genius to see how that can go badly.
Yep... if you so much as breath any issues you'll have your wings taken. Then, if you want them back, you have to go to a HIMS and put your own money up to convince people you're "normal". Absolutely fucked. Can't even be upset for normal shit like... a death in the family... for more than like 5 minutes.
This seems like a ridiculous policy. Now sure, if someone starts a new medication, maybe they should take some time off and check that it's not causing cognitive impairment. But once they adjust to the medication, it's entirely possible it will lead to improved performance. These things should be tested methodically, not prohibited by unscientific knee-jerk responses.
It's amazing that so many of the problems we have to endure these days all come back to the Reagan administration
He was an actor. He acted on behalf of his corporate masters.
And continued/ignored under the leaders afterword :(
@@Mrjonnyjonjon123bingo!
If you reallybelieve that, it means the propaganda is working.
Oh it's a whole lot more. And the saddest fact is the Reagan policies, laws, regulations, theories & legislations is what federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives fight&obstruct for til this very day; they just put new names on it but it's the same ole policies, laws, regulations, theories& legislations just in new lipstick.
Medically retired controller here. If any CPC's are watching this, it's not worth it. They will literally bleed you dry, and not even think twice about it. Y'all hold some of the most power in this country, you could bring the economy to its knees if you decided enough was finally enough. I say it's damned time, before we have bodies raining out of the sky because it let some billionaire get another tax break and buy a second yacht.
It's a golden handcuffs issue. An FPL with 20 years experience can make pretty decent money but has no skills transferable to other industries. It sucks.
Again, unions. You are literally the backbone of the most important transport mode. If you seriously demand better circumstances, they will have to listen. Which is why you need unions so that any strike actually strikes hard@@BravoCharleses
@@phoebeel Controllers have a union which is good and helpful on many issues, but staffing and pay are not among them.
When looking at the money we are already spending on everything, more money for the atc program is a drop in the bucket. It isn't a tax break problem, it isn't a money problem, it's a govt inefficiency problem. You know the rules, can't start after 30, cant work past 56. Pilots earn twice as much, work only 1000 hours a year, no minimum age much lower, max age much higher, the private sector values them. The govt doesn't buy votes by fixing a problem that most people are oblivious to. Your eat the rich comment is talking out your ass.
@@growlith6969 Who the hell do you think buys the government in the first place? The wealthy do all they can to hamper the government at every turn, and since we have legalized bribery in this nation it works every time. I've seen what privatization does from the inside, it's a total cluster fuck.
And trust, no amount of rhetorical handjobs you give them online will ever get you in their club. The rich get rich via exploitation, period.
Fun Fact: The Reagan Administration still holds the all-time record for people who served and were convicted of felonies during their tenure. Yet, the American people voted for him twice, like turkeys voting for the Thanksgiving butcher!😢☮️
But TWO turkeys get a presidential pardon Every Year!! It Could Be You!!™ (or them in this case)
Thanks baby boomers.
This doesn't really mean much to me when I know only a fraction of how awful the CIA can be.
🦃s have way more brains than federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, b**mers, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives, don't insult 🦃s like that ‼️ B**mers as they watch Fox News/ NewsMaxx/ oann be like I'm $ struggling in my o** age, why is it like that? And no matter how many times you explain to them it's like that because you vote/elect for it to be &stay like that they still go out and vote for, elect, donate to, help to get elected/reelected, revote for, support and or reelect any federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals and conservatives 😬🤔 It's like man after 44 long years you just refuse to ever learn huh ⁉️
Ronald Reagan = the useful imbecile.
Maybe if we keep their pay low and hours terrible this problem will just sort itself out.
-Every single airport
great idea! .....not....
I mean the pay is anything but low.
depends on where they are working. I see $55k starting pay is common. I've worked as a pharmacy technician for about that much, and the pay was not worth the stress. I assume ATC is more stressful than pharmacy, and thus even less worth it.
The abuse will continue until moral improves!
@@jonathandpg6115for a job that requires intense concentration and multitasking to keep tens of thousands of people alive everyday it’s very underpaid
Thank you for covering this. Overwork and healthcare avoidance are huge problems in aviation.
I spent my 20s on ATC, worked at 3 different airports. Everything in this video is accurate to my experience at each of those facilities. The alcoholic stuff? Not exaggerated. Also? I quit because I was depressed and anxious to the point of not being able to eat. I was miserable and turning into a skeleton. It's a tough job with a toxic culture in an unsustainable system. Even worse if you're a woman.
I worked at a ARTCC...I love the job. It's not for some people.
It would have been interesting if they mentioned the divorce rate among controllers.
I've heard it's a toxic culture there with a huge bro culture. Glad you were able to remove your golden handcuffs. I'm sure that was hard cuz my friends ATCs can't leave due to high pay, solid benefits, and early retirement.
Started the video and already knew that 'Reagan, that dolt (sorry village dolts, you do fine work)" would be an apt answer before completing. Halfway through, I was reaffirmed.
Reagan messed up so much during his presidency that you can almost blame a stubbed toe on him.
and the UK has Thatcher who also screwed her country up in the same way.
don't worry, real village dolts all know that it's the national level dolts who ruin more than anyone
Reagan and his handlers destroyed America.
My usual response is "*fucking* Ronald Reagan".
I already read the NYT article, so this wasn't news to me, but it's still horrifying that we allow a profession where an accident could result in a fiery ball of at least 100 dead people to be staffed like a Wal-Mart with the same levels of desperation and apathy.
And while mental health standards should be high, I'd rather my ATCs be on 60mg of Cymbalta than six shots of Captain Morgan.
On neither would be ideal. A huge amount of stress could be alleviated with adequate staffing!
Cymbalta or alcohol? They're both horrible.. they need to hire more people so they're not spread so thin, and under constant stress.
@@Indigoporcelain As someone who has had both, you're delusional for thinking that. One is an SNRI that for the most part, levels you off and is part of a process to help with depression. The other can result in blackouts and poor coordination at those levels. People can (and do) function on the former on an everyday basis. The last time I tried to do the same with the latter... it wasn't pretty.
@EbonySaints if it's helping you, great! But frankly speaking, I don't think I want people self medicating with alcohol or on strong anti-depressants or other brain altering drugs being in charge of thousands of planes in the sky! I'd rather them be completely clear-headed. If regular people working as ATCs are already beyond stressed out, I don't think people who need meds to level them out, as you say, will fair better.
Add to that any emergency personnel (doctors, police, fire, EMT). They work 12 to 24 hour shifts all the time. It's insane that some of the most crucial professions have some of the longest and most grueling shifts on the planet.
A near miss sounds so much better to a gullible public than what it really is, a near hit.
I believe George Carlin said the same thing , a near miss would be a hit .
A near hit would be a miss.
Exactly what I was thinking.
The phrase "near miss" simply means a miss that was near to being a hit. It is not intended to be misleading. And let's put this in perspective against the roughly 40,000 Americans who die in motor vehicle crashes each year.
During the last government shutdown I owned a doughnut shop. I had made a declaration that anyone impacted by the shutdown in our area would get a free doughnut for everyone in their family, each day of the shutdown. An ATC reached out to me and asked if I had any ideas for their regional operations center, since they were still working, and unpaid! Luckily I was able to rally local citizens and our ingredient supplier for donations, and my wife and I delivered 20 dozen, enough for everyone at the center, during one of their shift changes to maximize inclusion. It's one of the greatest honors I've ever had. I'll forever be impressed by their commitment.
Sorry...I work in a ARTCC. We were never "not paid"
@@KB-xd5wqhaving to use Savings, Credit cards, loans to get through a shutdown means we were unpaid. Backpay doesn't change that
That is a lie. Shutdowns only delay pay, federal workers always get paid. Many even got paid and didn’t even work!
I was on vacation (we had to schedule them a year in advance) when a government shutdown occurred, and got furloughed because I couldn't get back from Hawaii in time to make my shift. Every time the Republicans were in charge crap happened to us. The Republicans only care about making their rich friends richer and privatizing every government entity they can to make money off of it.
I can remember back in 1982, while working for a liquor chain in Anchorage Ak, one of my coworkers had recently stopped being an air traffic controller, he had made me aware of some of the challenges that they were faced with, I'm appalled that in 42 years it has not been rectified and only gotten worse.
I graduated nursing school in 1981. I quit after 5 years with student loans yet unpaid. I know it's only gotten worse in healthcare too.
Government.
As a private pilot, I can say they should self-fund airports with landing and parking fees. Hangar rent. Fuel sales, bunk rooms, showers, food, and what have you.
The private business sector generally provides better service for the same or less price as government.
@@Triple_J.1 For that reason I think ATC should be privatized, like they did in Canada, UK, NZ, and 25 other countries. FAA can't manage it.
Wow. It's almost as if every industry is trying to shave more and more dollars off of operating costs by overscheduling, understaffing and going lax on safety.
People don't vote with their feet
One of my friends works in the atc tower in an unnamed west coast city, he says that almost everyone in the tower is on adderall to keep up with work, recently there was a near miss and there was a huge investigation. They got lucky. Next time they might not. They need more staff and shorter shifts. Everyone there works 10-12 hour shifts regularly.
Don't they have random drug and medical tests?
Wait, these people are seeking relief from mental stress, and their paths are taken away? Wth!?!
Healthcare avoidance. That’s where We are at folks. Wtf
That’s all I’ve worked are under paying jobs unfortunately. Union jobs my Grandfather and my father were paid well for are now jobs that are nonunion ( thank you Ronald Reagan) and pay poorly. All for what ? So a few greedy people can be billionaires while the rest of us suffer.
My first 'real' job was as a printers helper in a non union shop in 1980. The company kept the union out by offering us a very nice compensation package. Especially coming up from McDonalds and 7/11. You know, my career in food service and retail...
THIS is why we need to break out of the two-party trap and elect a third party candidate this year. There are at least two candidates who seem to actually care about the people who waste their lives to line the pockets of the rich.
@@5qu34k99Voting for a third party candidate will hand the election to Trump. If Trump wins, there will only ever be one party, & voting will be a thing of the past.
VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE!
@@kellykat8057 Not if enough people decide to make the switch. Unfortunately by applying that logic in the last election we ended up with our country supporting a genocide. Not that it would be any different under the orange monster's rule, but we can't let the fear of trump as a dictator force us into voting for anyone that would support genocide. I'd almost rather get the laughing-stock, psycho narcissist, rapist back and fight a civil war against his cult. Biden is better than trump by a very thin margin, but he's lost my trust. Stein or West are the only options I see and I think West might have a better chance so far. I wish they were running together. Say NO MORE and go third-party in 2024!
@@kellykat8057 I'm not sure what happened to my other reply. Maybe because I called trump the r-word (because he is one...). Hopefully the reply is still here and I just can't see it for some reason. But in case it's not... I won't vote for anyone who supports genocide. Never trump and no longer Biden. Third party is the only option. With thinking like yours, we'll never break out of the problem. That's how I felt about the last election and now I feel that Biden doesn't deserve my vote. He's lost my trust. I'm done with the BS. Third-party is the only path forward and the only chance this country has of being something good. If enough people wake up to that fact, then we won't have to worry about the manchild winning.
A job that crucial needs a Union
The problem is that a job that crucial is often hammered down by the powers that be for even daring to speak up. Remember the rail workers who wanted to go on strike in 2022? It was still in the tail end of the acute supply chain problem, and Biden didn't want another bad economy story, so he effectively screwed over the unions with a less than bare minimum deal that let the rail companies continue their hijinks.
They have a union, problem is their union has no teeth. Really, a union that crucial needs workers with guns.
Wait till you find out how crucial all working class are. Remember what they called people working in grocery stores, hospitals, and more just a few years ago? I remember.
Why so they can be paid less?
Ironically the issue with aviation today are the Unioned workers doing a shitty job and getting people killed. Did you not see the crash last week?
@@ninjagirl226Union workers average 18% higher wages and have better job security. Get your facts straight and come with sources before making wild claims.
ATC is one of the most stressful jobs. They deserve a raise. All workers deserve a LIVABLE wage.
As a teacher I can attest that all non-political jobs funded by the government are underpaid
In major cities they make $150,000+. I think the highest paid controllers made $200,000+. Is it worth it? I’m going to find out. I’m currently in the final hiring stage for the FAA to be an ATC trainee. It really isn’t about making a livable wage, more about work life balance.
@@caitroseco6752 the average pay for ATCs is $130,000. The highest paid controller make $230,000+
Its not about pay, more work life balance.
@@josephshackleford1 Good luck and may God have mercy on your soul.
You could be an uninformed fool. Some ATC MAKE $275,000 a year.
So...Reagan strikes again?
I knew about the Patco strike... I didnt know that they endorsed Reagan.
We are still suffering the consequences of the untold harm done by Ronald Reagan.
Correct the delayed echo / ripple effect.
Also Bush screwed things additionally by not hiring when the Reagan strike controllers approached retirement.
I laughed so hard when they said Reagan was at fault for this. My family has been in aviation for decades. This predates Reagan.
@@ninjagirl226
So has mine. Reagan made it WAY worse
@@harutosunaa3881 Tell that to all the ones that were sent 6 ft under by incompetent maintenance crews long before Reagan.🙄
@@ninjagirl226 an illogical statement - you can't talk to a dead person. regardless - the video already pointed out things were bad before reagan - given you actually watched the video, which appears unlikely. included was the lies reagan's told, his laying off of 11,000 workers immediately, and violent arrests of union leaders and chaining them up. so yes, reagan did objectively make the issue significantly worse - QED. not a debate
60 hours a week, PLUS OT?!
The government should’ve gotten involved long before it got to this point. That should be against the law. 🤦♂️
In fairness pilots have similar freedoms of work and flying remains rhetorical safest form of travel these days
the government (under reagan) is unfortunately the reason why it sucks so bad
That's the thing, they did get involved yet saw no problems with it...
They are government employees, so the government has always known. And it is not a problem unique to the US. Countries like Canada and Australia face similar shortages. What this video didn't mention is that the number of flights or air traffic increased significantly over the past few decades but ATC hasn't been able to keep up.
That’s wasn’t an accurate statement. Anything over 40 hours a week or in some cases 80 hours in a biweekly pay period shall be OT. It’s not 60+OT. 60 is the max it could ever be for ATC.
This is what happens when you don't put people first
You can't honestly be saying that we should put people before profits are you? Oh won't somebody think of the billionaires?😮
Gentle reminder that there's no such thing as an illegal strike, just an unsuccessful one
Illegal strike is illegal strike.
Not if the strikers use guns. Then that's definitely illegal.
You are aware that unionization led to the transatlantic slave trade, right? Not even kidding, the plantation owners were pissed off that their current workers were refusing to work for more than half of their workday (literally a 5 hour break in the middle of the day and all kinds of other stuff), so they went elsewhere for labor. All strikes are extra-legal, but some are definitely immoral.
@@arspsychologia4401 I'm pretty sure it was the West African rulers who sold rival tribespeople for money that led to the transatlantic slave trade.
@@arspsychologia4401
How far up your colon did you have to reach to pull that 💩 out of?
Industrial maintenance, this profession was solid middle class if not upper less than 30 years ago, now we can't even afford a house. There is 24 mechanics total keeping 8 lines running 24/7 at my current job, those lines make $15,000 an hour each worth of product and cant keep running without us, the company makes millions of dollars every quarter but we dont even get a $50 bonus quarterly unless there's no injury across the entire plant and we hit numbers that are borderline unobtainable.
It feels like a slap in the face when record profits gets reported on and the company comes out talking about employees being their backbone…. Just to give us RTIC tumblers with the company logo on it instead of $$$$$ which is the only reason we work there. These companies like to pretend that we are there to build their dreams and not feed ourselves of invest in our children.
I was a controller at ZJX for 11 years. I was very proud to work along side some amazing people and do what I thought was the coolest job. Unfortunately towards my last few years there, everything that the video mentioned became too much for me. I was not abusing drinking or anything like that, for me it was my mental health. I attempted various times to get help but I always ended up with roadblocks. It's sort of embarrassing to say this, but eventually I couldn't handle it anymore and had a panic attack and collapsed at work. Luckily I had finished my briefing and was not talking to any live traffic when it happened. I ended up in the ER and decided there and then I'd never go back. It was one of the hardest, but best decisions. I only have the upmost respect for my previous coworkers and hope that the job gets better. It was an amazing job and my reasons for leaving it should have never happened.
@toro man sorry to hear. That gotta be a stressful what you went through man. What do you think could help ATCs deal with it better while still making sure air safety is prioritized?
Most of the US problems started from Reagan era... Im shock... WoW
I was an air traffic controller in the Air Force for 4 years. Quit doing it when I got out in 2005 and went into airfield management. I've been saying this for years and years. The next major accident in the US involving an airline, with fatalities, will most likely be a runway collision due to ATC error. Came very close many times in the last few years. Most of them I don't think many people really know about either if they don't follow aviation related stuff closely.
Should have stuck it out though. Seems like they're desperate for controllers. I really liked tower. Hated RAPCON, which was sitting in a dark room staring at a radar scope. Tower was fun - way up high watching everything out on the airfield.
You still working in AMOPS?
Here's to all the "Good" people, who are so fiercely determined to ensure that "Nothing Fundamentally Changes."
I've bounced around a few jobs over the last 8 years, the only things that have pushed me to quit are relocating and being unable to commute, or blatant management failures. Delivering pizza was the latter; Papa Johns has a bullshit corporate policy that set the maximum in store wage to $10 an hour, which wasn't too problematic for the drivers since we got tips, but we had a single in-store employee by the time I left, and he was only there because he was the underage ward of an assistant manager who could give him a ride to work with her. I don't mean he was only there in the sense of that relationship being the only reason he got the job, but he only stayed there because he could get a ride. Meanwhile the KFC, McDonalds, Arbys, Taco Bell, and Burger King a block away all started at $15/hour.
Accessible transportation is a real problem in the states. We need to reduce stroads and invest in walkable and pedestrian priority areas. Along with more specific train and bus routes
We the people need an American workers union.
As a controller in the FAA, staffing sucks horribly at a lot of places. Thankfully, I’m at a place now where staffing is okay.
What do you think they can do now to fix shortage gap? Seems certifying time takes years, so no quick fix. However, curious what steps you think FAA can take to dec shortage or what work can be automated from ATCs plate to bring balance?
"With alot of mistakes happening it's not hard to attribute that fatigue with the decade plus run of facilities using overtime as a crutch for staffing...."
All companies in America have shifted to this model I have experienced this at EVERY SINGLE JOB I'VE WORKED IN THE LAST 8 YEARS. They swear they are going to hire more people but don't have any active job listing. The only time companies are fully staffed are during "peak seasons" when they know things will be waaaaaay out of hand because business is increased (for afew months usually 2-3 out the year).
Healthcare (during holiday months because families complain when they see how things are normally), Railroad work, Security, Kitchens, warehouses, Teaching, and Retail so many jobs are doing this it's crazy!
Shortstaffing seems to have become a normal part of the U.S. business model across many fields and industries. No suprise it probably began with Reagan.
It may have started there but why hasn’t it changed since then? We’ve had decades to get revert back.
@@seadragon1456every president since then has been a neoliberal
This is exactly why I left the USPS. I feel for every single one of those controllers.
I’m glad I didn’t accept the job at USPS. I saw red flags when word went around that they cannot keep people. Very long hours, lack of good pay…nope.
Everytime I learn something new about Reagan, I hate him more. Genuinely one of the worst presidents of all time.
At least he isn't the worst, but as for 2nd amendment cases yeah he's the worst in my book.
Watch “Capitalism. A love story”
I met and fell in love with a Canadian woman who was an air traffic controller.
She made it very clear she could never move down here, and would never move down here, due to the results of the PATCO strikebreaking.
We’re still friends, 20 years later. The air traffic situation down here is still fucked, 20 years later.
lol she would never move down here because you have to be a us citizen to work at an atc.
@@Noneofyour210 there was talk of marriage and citizenship.
LOL....
i'm not surprised, as soon as they talked about how crappy everything is, i knew it would trace back to regan
no suprise that the industry thats famous for having its union DESTROYED is a living nightmare
Wow. That's so gross... why can't we pay and treat people appropriately? It will for sure result in an accident
All paths lead back to Reagan.
Not all. Its more the point that its a concerted effort that keeps being re-applied through the years. It was true before Nixon and after Reagan featured in this video and the reason union membership dropped, wages stagnated, and the rich got richer despite multiple crises and crashes.
@@CanadianWolverine fair points. Just funny to me how often I find issues leading back to old Ronny at some point. Usually they do extend to before Reagan's time but typically he is involved.
Not this one. This goes further back they just chose to ignore it in this video. Stupid.
All problems lead back to GOVERNMENT.
Everything wrong with America today all goes back to Reagan
Their overtime and hold on hiring sounds exactly like the situation my friend dealt with as a 911 dispatcher. They have so much mandatory overtime on top of their 10 hour shifts 6 days a week, and it severely impacted both her health but also the lack of staffing means that call times exceed the regulations all the time, and dispatchers can’t do as good of a job when they’re so overworked
This is nothing new. My late uncle who passed away in 1991 was an air traffic controller after being stationed in Korea and Japan with the US Navy. These problems were still problems 40 years ago, and they haven't gotten any better. It's an incredibly stressful, broken job.
I'm not shocked. The system of careful quality assurance at Boeing and the airlines has been breaking down for years. They started at such an excellent place that it's taking time to show up in dramatic ways, but without a reversal of direction, fatal collisions and crashes are inevitable.
Why is it always Ronald fucking Reagan!?
Because he is a bad person and a useful tool for GOP goons.
Because for the last 40 years, none of the politicians after him did anything to help the American people. No picies, just platitudes.
My dad was actually the pilot for the FedEx plane in the first clip!!! He got a safety award from the pilot's union! it was weird as hell hearing his voice in a RUclips video XD
I really like the work this channel is doing. Good job team.
Perfect candidates for a 4 day work week study
Ronnie had to mess with ATC's too?! He was a bad president.
THAT LITERALLY WAS SUCH a Big deal... and his SAVAGE MIS- TREATMENT of the A.T.C. UNION'S BROTHERHOOD became the "TONE" HIS presidency is KNOWN for HAVING DIRECTLY CAUSED ALMOST EVERY OTHER EMPLOYER STAFFED WITH UNION LABOR to be CRIPPLED by the SUDDEN EPIPHANY realized by ALL the MIDDLE CLASS EMPLOYERS AT THE SAME TIME-
LABOR "PROTECTION"
at the Federal Level Shifted drastically
AWAY
from the Benefit of the worker
To benefiting the Owners
At least "effectively"
Resulting in this outcome MORE THAN not by way of how "friendly" the Reagan NLRB was to CLAIMS of Violating Union Rights, Freedom to Organize, etc.
Under Reagan the UNIONS OF OUR NATION... starting THAT day in 1981..
Decline SHARPLY
FROM around 25+%
Union Jobs for a strong MIDDLE CLASS income &
Benefit PKGs, etc
To around 15% by
1990...
In the same time frame of course you can see it when we LOST the WAGES and the benefits along with the unions
It still baffles me that after he fired all those ATCs, Reagan managed to get an airport named after him.
After that happened, I worked with some guys who refused to call it that and instead referred to it as DCA or Washington National.
Reagan: a hero to all capitalists and an enemy to all others.
They privatized my local control tower and the new controllers were shockingly bad, like actually incompetent. Exactly the kind of people you want providing sequencing and separation services. Thankfully the TRACON and ARTCC are still good, but you cant trust local towers anymore for a variety of reasons. Love my controllers but man, it is scary at times.
FAA did that crap on purpose.
I was hired as a replacement controller after Reagan fired all the PATCO Union Controllers. The fired PATCO guy who got up and said, "I'd like to talk to all you replacement controllers. Give it a try, and come back and talk to me in 5 years." He NAILED IT! It was only 5 years after all of us replacement controllers were hired that we got FED UP with FAA Management and we all voted to form our own NEW Union called NATCA which is still battling FAA Management to this day!
Reagan played the role of a movie sheriff, having a showdown with a very important part of our economy that he did not really understand, because he was an actor, not someone committed to comprehension or becoming educated deeply about anything.
Still can't understand why pilots can fly until much older and they are actually in the air. The retirement ages are backwards.
65 for pilots isn't even that old. I don't see an issue with it. Used to be 60 though. Can't remember when they raised it. I think like 2005. Recently congress was trying to raise it to 67, but I believe that didn't make it anywhere.
For every problem that we face in this country, if you guess "Reagan" as the reason, you've got at least a 50% chance of being correct.
But Obama lowering the hiring standards has *nothing* to do with this. Blame Reagan from 30 years ago.
Ever hear of the 150 program ?
Workers need more men and women like McGee.
A 6 hour 4 days per week schedule will work wonders.
That sounds like hell on Earth are you crazy?
@@ninjagirl226 How is that "hell on Earth"? That's a great schedule for an extremely stressful and demanding job - particularly one that pays very well (and given all the stress and demands of the job, it should be paying very well).
Granted, it would mean hiring a hell of a lot more ATCs and greatly increasing their pay. But when you consider how incredibly important their jobs are and how critical it is that the ppl staffing the ATC towers are alert and able to manage their workload safely? Yeah, those changes make all the sense in the world!
It would also help with passengers as well. I know I don't want to fly with the way things are right now - especially if I have to go through a big airport like O'Hare. The big airports where they handle a ton of traffic every hour? Those are the ones where an accident is most likely to happen.
@SadisticSenpai61
Especially as these days, it might not just be the ATC a pilot has to worry about. Sometimes, it's a question if his plane can even fly
@@ninjagirl226 24 hours of work per week sounds like hell to you?
@@waffles3629 Yes. Because boredom. Also if you are working part time and very few hours my general experience is that you don’t really know what to do because you lack experience. This leads to more accidents like the idiot who nearly blew up the lab at my last job. We already have poorly trained mechanics let’s not make the issue worse
I'm a retired Army Controller. Now, you can add the DEI into the equation of recruiting a future Air Traffic Controller. Their nationality, race, gender identity, and skin color far outweigh their mental ability, test score results, or aptitude for this profession. Want the inside scoop? Talk to ex-controllers or Airline Pilots.
YES SIR>>>YOU ARE 100% CORRECT !
Working in EMS in the US from what i understand is in a similar state with poor pay, retention and hours
How long will we feel the effects of Reagan’s disastrous presidency. It’s almost comical at this point.
Imagine not protecting the same people who keep YOU and YOUR FAMILY safe in the skies. But also let me tell you that there are ATCs that only fly when certain ATCs are on duty. That's how suspicious they are of each other 😳
Though dated, Arthur Hailey's work, Airport, gives an excellent snapshot of ATCs' issues.
I just remembered I've had it on my shelf for well over a year now, I really need to get down to it when I have some time
@@rilmar2137It's a great read. Enjoy!
DEI hires are the problem. Hiring people who are only qualified, not based on experience, but because they check all the right boxes is going to result in a catastrophe soon.
Not rly
6 day work weeks with 10 hour shifts? Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I am currently interested in becoming an ATC in my country and we have 4 day work weeks with 8 hour shifts. 2 hours of that shift is paid break time. I am surprised nothing too bad happened yet.
i saw a job opening for an Air Traffic Controllers, it was going to be pay training, but they want people to be between 25 to 30 years old they wanted someone young. If they are in need of this much people why don't they want anyone older?
There are age limits on controllers. They have to retire from the role (or take a different role) by age 56. That’s a very short work lifespan.
They literally burn through them. I'm surprised that they can last to 56.
@@df20001 yeah but OP said 25 to age 30.
@@df20001 I understand the short lifespan of the job, what i don't understand is why they only want them young. For example at 25 i would not have wanted a very high stress job, and most like wound not be able to do it. Now at 35 years old with years of working in a call center for both internet phone and with my job right now, i am able to handle stress so much better now then ever before. I feel that someone that just came out of collage, someone that just was able to drink legally for 4 years, may not be the best person to do air traffic controllers. They may not be able to handled the stress. I also feel that the job was not paying people that much, i think it was maybe 65k in Dallas TX. So my issue is why only the young and why so little in pay.
The training is very intense. You need to be able to act very fast. Also near perfect eye sight.
Stressful, life-or-death jobs like ATC, paramedics, etc., should be part-time, 20 hours a week, with full pay and benefits. We need full and I daresay redundant staffing for these jobs for the health and safety of EVERYONE, workers and those who rely on them.
FAA consistently disappoints
If only there was alternative options to travel, maybe even one that was train-shaped...
If only there wasn’t this annoying thing called the ocean in the way
@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986
Great thing about traveling within the US is that there isn't any blue water in the way unless you want to go to Alaska or Hawaii
And trains can even run themselves
You can probably get away with extending the Acela corridor further south until it reaches Orlando
@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 idk an ocean spanning train sounds kindaaaa cooool :)
Americans have accepted the status quo and functionally checked out from participation in any meaningful aspect of politics or their working lives (as a whole) until and unless labor begins participating and supporting other labor instead of judging labor, shaming labor, and promoting the myths management pushes on labor. Gotta manage ourselves up.
Maybe we shpuld build more passenger trains to reduce domestic flight traffic 🤔
Reagan helped sabotage that as well.
alright then its settled, im never flying again lol
Now I understand why my son is afraid to fly…
You stated, "a year after Reagan was elected, none of the changes
had been made at the FAA". Well, to be historically accurate
President Reagan was elected on 04NOV80, took the oath of office
20JAN81, and began negotiations with PATCO in February 0f 1981.
The union rejected the Federal Gov't offer (34.2% raise over 3 years),
and struck of 03AUG81. That's just over 6 months, and the offer was
monetarily greater than that of the Carter Administration.
Make no mistake - D.E.I. is having its predictable effects on air traffic safety.
As an airline pilot, every major screwup from air traffic control (ATC) I’ve seen in the last 10 years has come at the hands of someone that wouldn’t have made the cut 10 or 15 years ago.
you got that right. compacity
I did some atc in the military, enjoyed it and was good at it but by the time I got out I was too old to start at the faa. How does that make sense.
Truly
They changing that now. They hiring ATCs from military now, i think even if you are above 31 (again I think). You should look into it.
Oh yeah it’s bad, I work at a major Canadian airport and everything coming north from USA is a near miss
#WhereIsMyHighSpeedRail
How can they make it illegal for our right to gather? Isn’t it a constitutional right? Someone should sue the Federal Government for this stupid law!!
Another good reason for union members to never vote for a Republican. They hate unions. Retired controller here. I love how people with no real idea of facts spew them. ATC pay is public. If you take the time to look it up, it's on the web. Just look up ATC pay bands. Starting pay at a busy facility such as Charlotte is about $80k. Top salaries to senior controllers is $160k plus. Overtime, night pay, trainer pay and other types of pay can boost the salary to over $200k at busy facilities. This story, like so many stories on the web is only partially accurate.
Being shocked by anything said in this video means you’re not paying attention
Thank you so much for this. Capitalism is going to end us all if we let it.
The only thing that surprised me about the recent JAL accident is that it didn't happen in the US. It's only a matter of time.
I'm a recently retired controller and the problem isn't the PATCO strike, it was Clinton and Congress in the 90's that stopped hiring new controllers from '91 through almost '98. So all the late 80's and 1990 hires (like myself) have been hitting the mandatory age 56 retirement age over the past few years, with that long gap in the pipeline behind us. Then there was the 2008-2016 hiring disaster years where they switched to hiring controllers based on racial and cultural characteristics instead of mental skills, knowledge and abilities which led to wasted years of training people who ultimately did not certify. We are suffering for those decisions now.
Not really. Those people would be gone now. It’s the hiring after the big 09 boom that just stopped when they got sued over the testing then during covid again. Wait until the group in 09 start to go in five years. It’s gonna be real fun lol
I was hired in '82 and worked at a ARTCC. Retirements were and are a huge factor and the DEI push at the academy and facilities set back the program several years.
The entire training environment (for lack of a better term) needs to be revamped, from selection to the academy, to OJT at the facility. I was blessed with great OJTI's who cared about my training and trained me to succeed. Others I know had OJTI's who didn't give a crap about proper training. The whole training system needs an overhaul. What doesn't help is the actual hiring process. People can wait years to hear whether they've been selected. By the time they get the word, they're already involved in a promising career doing something else.
Controllers hired from 91-98 would have been forced out long ago or leaving now lol. Has nothing to do with anything.
@797I was lucky to be hired in '82. From the time I took the CST to getting a offer to go to OKC academy was maybe 2 months. But the selection process changes depending on the FAA's goals. It is not consistent. They have change the training system many times over the years. Staffing numbers keep changing also. They start to ramp up training and the numbers get lowered for staffing. They have never had a way to estimate the number of people really retiring. They always underestimate the number. People who apply shouldn't have to wait years to know if they can start training.
Jacksonville Center certainly needs some staffing help. All it takes are a couple of clouds in the sky and “flow programs” go into effect for anyone crossing through their airspace. Which means delays from coast to coast.
Along with millons of flights, I'm surprised accidents aren't happening all the time. I still have to give praìse to these guys
Yeah this sounds like literally every job...
you mean like surgens/ doctors? wow ... welp anything we really depend our lives on... "function" like this. mean while they're thinking of adding more flights...
Can we discuss the deliberate destruction of passenger rail? Can we discuss the pursuit of growth at all costs, and plainly unnecessary travel by the wealthy which accounts for a large % of the load? Controllers are compelled to deal with private flights, Who is in charge of the skies? The people or Wall Street? Most air travel is just stupid. Business boys running around feeling important, pop culture tours no one needs, and with luxury and much small craft air travel just a selfish desire to be apart from ordinary people, rather than build a shared sustainable infrastructure that we can all benefit from. Airplanes are essentially classist and have become the locus of both terrorism and authoritarianism. Just don't bother with them, and take away the subsidies for rich people's private flights, Problem solved.
huh?
I went up to a tower a couple months ago and talked to the staff, they don’t even have half of the staff they’re supposed to have and they all agreed the only way it will change is when a collision occurs.
You guys are so important.
“It’s not a near miss - it’s a near hit! A collision is a near miss!” _boom_ “look, they nearly missed”
My wife sat on a tarmac for an hour this morning to get “radio issues worked out”. It makes me wonder if it was actually an ATC issue.
Can't imagine being an ATC after so many years of neglect to the field. I'm sure someone will fill those shoes once they're made available, but I feel bad for all those people who are going through Hell just trying to keep our planes flying.
“The FAA needs to guarantee that the job itself is sustainable for the workers” (9:18)
*expressionless Moira Rose laughter*
Great video! Man, this channel gets crushed by the algorithm, must be on the youtube blacklist for supporting workers.
Eh guy ignored the real issues in aviation to push propaganda that will continue to leave just as many pilots dead. Sad and frustrating as the victim of this shit.
I hope you cover the trucking industry❤
It still amazes me how many folks have no idea how much harm Reagan did to the US working class.
Woooow who would have guessed the New York Times would do bad reporting that screws over the people they're interviewing?
Entire Trans Community: "Somebody better pick up that phone because I CALLED IT!"
The more I look around, this seems to be the case with most major companies across most industries... Poor working conditions, overworked employees, old/malfunctioning equipment, etc.